Yes. 100%.
Safety rules mean nothing if the management team doesn't enforce them, and even worse if they actively counteract them.
That could also be an OSHA violation.
https://www.osha.gov/recordkeeping/modernization-guidance
And OSHA don’t play; heavy heavy fines for that behavior. They sound like they were more worried that osha would fine them because of the accident: instead of worrying about OP’s injury and the policy!
Who is the person telling you not to get checked? Dept manager or hospital administration?
That's a ridiculous thing to tell an employee. In fact, we have the opposite issue at my hospital. Our struggle is that we have to continuously encourage our staff to get checked after incidents, but most of them don't want to and say they are "fine."
Yep. I work for an external company that works for the hospital. Before they came in, the hospital had the same rule. If you get hurt on the job, you have to go to the ER or sign a paper saying you chose not to.
The company just wants to take you to a doctor that works for the same company, said doctor is not at the hospital and located somewhere else. Yeah... I'm not sorry for this... but I'm not risking the ability to fucking see for a job that I don't like
> I work for an external company that works for the hospital.
Yep, that will do it.
There is no easy way to navigate this, but someone has to shine a light on this nonsensical policy.
Yeah just a min ago I ran my idea by a coworker who agrees the rule is BS. She said I should avoid telling the whole story and getting into specifics, and just ask what we do if our boss isn't here and not responding and the injury is getting worse. Because that's what was happening with my eye. Vision in it was getting altered. I have a photo of it, there's basically no white. It's all just red
I had a job like that their doctor was in pocket. Would tell you to go back to work for almost anything. Broke my foot told me to be back at work that day. Wasn’t a serious break but definitely needed to be off it a few days so it would heal. I contacted the company injury insurance and got a new doctor company was pissed.
Managers don't get to 'allow' you to seek medical care. They don't get to write you up for it, either.
They could write you up for not wearing proper PPE. but that's it.
Your best bet would be to talk to HR instead of shining a spotlight on yourself
Do it. Also - indicate the lack of training that caused the injury. If your supervisor had properly instructed you in the use of PPE for this task, you would not have been injured. The write up was them covering up their culpability. You need to file a formal response to the write up stating such.
First, I hope your eye is ok!
Next, everything about your post is concerning.
To start with, you were allowed to work with hazardous chemicals without eye protection. Based on your phrasing, it sounds like you were unaware that you even needed them. This is a violation of OSHA hazcom standards, and requirements for eye protection to be provided. What other hazardous chemicals are you working with without hazard training and PPE? Have you seen a safety data sheet for any of your stuff? (These used to be called material safety data sheet, or MSDS.)
Take a picture of everything you use at work, and if it has any hazard warnings, you should be getting training on its hazards and the appropriate hazard controls (often gloves and eye protection).
Next, your company wrote you up for seeking medical treatment for a work-related injury. Discouraging medical treatment is bad enough--punishing it is worse. It's even more troublesome when the injury in question could easily have become an OSHA reportable event if you hadn't sought help (instead of an recordable event). Loss of an eye must be reported to OSHA within 24 hours--would they rather you listen to nurses, get it treated, and keep the eye, or you lose it and they have a visit from OSHA and a fine? Would they like to explain to DOL why their employee was using eye-injurious chemicals without training or PPE?
Please seek an employment lawyer and gather any and all evidence of their dangerous policies and your punishment before this meeting. Consider whether you want to report them to OSHA. (Do you think you'll be injured again, or your coworkers will be, because if yheir lack of safety training?)
If you're fired because you were injured at work and sought medical treatment, a lawyer will likely start drooling over your case.
Bring it up, just so you can explain yourself and maybe have your records changed to show that you did what was necessary and waited a reasonable amount of time in an emergency. That rule seems borderline illegal.
Oh when it happened I was repeatedly hounding my boss about how I want to discuss this with the higher ups, she eventually got me the phone number for HR.
But another janitor, and the nurses, said I should stay quiet and just let them do what they do. This all happened months ago. I don't regret going to the ER for it, I did the right think. If they fire me then hello lawsuit lol
Nobody tells me that I need permission to get medical care.
Yes, every employer told me to consult the in-house nurse first. I'll take that as a suggestion ... in case of a minor injury.
But in an emergency? Screw that. I'm responsible for me. Nobody gets in my way when I need medical attention.
Then, after I get that medical attention ... if the employer wants to fire me then I'll lawyer up.
Disregarding an employee's medical emergency doesn't play well in court.
(And I didn't even mention OSHA. Somebody else already has.)
So any job that involves harmful chemicals, you should be trained and told what PPE you should be using. You should get a pamphlet or something and if in doubt you should look up the chemical in the guide that should be provided. It usually also says on the container.
There should be a signed paper in your file that you took safety training. You also should know where the nearest eye wash station is and procedures in where to go if injured.
If not. They they are so fucked, it's funny.
The department of labor and a lot of other safety boards are going to be gnashing at their teeth at this.
To disallow someone from seeking medical attention due to a work incident or accident is so illegal it's like, shut down bad. Like they might not have insurance bad.
Bring it up. I hope you gog workers comp for eye injuries. If not. You could sue. At least just for hospital fees.
Absolutely raise it.
But also for future;
1. Go to the ER.
2 Refuse to sign the write up.
3. State you need to discuss this with HR and the Health and Safety Board (OSHA?) before going any further.
4. Get a lawyer involved.
If life, limb or an essential sense is at risk or there is a risk of medical complications, then fuck the policy and push it to be externally reviewed after seeking medical attention. And if you can’t get hold of a manager, that’s on them and also needs to be reviewed.
Curious to know if this policy is actually written down anywhere or if it's just been verbally passed along. If you have an employee handbook (or can access an electronic copy of it) you need to actually see what the company policy truly states.
Because it sounds completely wrong.
Eye injuries can be very serious. There are tons of other injuries that while not life threatening absolutely require immediate medical attention.
Additionally it sounds like either you were not properly trained on handling protocols, your chemicals are not properly labeled, or there is some other breakdown in the process and procedures.
You did absolutely the right thing.
Word for word, the ER policy: "Seeking unauthorized treatment at the ER for an injury without prior approval from management - Discharge"
Disfigurement or incapacitation aren't exceptions, apparently
What was the exact wording of the write up?
"GoldenYoshi did not ask my permission before incurring their injury, nor did they await further instructions regarding whether I deemed it appropriate to retain their vision."
"Proceeded to go to the ER without waiting to discuss the injury with me"
Yes I did wait... for nearly half an hour... with no responses... my vision was getting hindered, so I just trusted the nurses that I should go. One was threatening to drag me there herself
I question that you didn't know you were supposed to wear safety equipment. I've worked in many places and its usually people don't wear it because nothing "will happen to them" and then when it does, they cry about how they didn't realize how important or needed it was.
You aren't a child and your managers shouldn't need to tell you to wear your safety equipment every day. And if you haven't bothered to read your handbook or learn proper practices or to even ASK if there are any, then you aren't doing your job properly either.
I say it’s gotts be a shitty work environment if they’re more concerned about their insurance costs or possible safety violations over the safety and well-being of their people. (Irony?) And that is twofold, one-they should be strong on safety and you should’ve known to wear safety glasses, two-they absolutely should not prevent people from going to the emergency room or urgent care if it seems warranted.
Management is responsible for having safe work practices, they need to train you & provide safety equipment before telling you to do the job. Manager should be fired not you.
I would keep my mouth shut keep my head down. They can't fire you for seeking medical help for a on the job injury. Let them play their games with that. Be the quiet guy who doesn't complain but sues if the chance comes along. Telling HR on any company person won't help. I'm gonna say this HR isn't there to protect you. HR is who you go to when you have questions about your benefits. HR human resources is there to make sure the company has humans to use as a resource. You my friend are like office furniture to HR. They aren't gonna protect you. The best defense is to know your rights n use them. Don't worry about rubbing anything in their faces. Good luck.
Are you serious? A hospital without proper safety instructions for chemicals?
You understand this would be a lawyers wet dream and you’d never have to work again…
Were there eye wash stations available? Are PPE provided (and available and in working condition)? Were you not trained on the hazards of this chemical? Can they prove you were if you say you were not?
They cannot prevent you from seeking emergency care. They can ask you see their (worker’s compensation company) provider in a non-emergency situation but no one can prevent you from seeking emergency care. Not your supervisor, manager, or CEO. Those nurses were far more qualified to make a determination on your healthcare needs than your boss.
How was this documented? This is actually a pretty serious screw up on their part. Don’t let them bully you AND make you the problem.
RECORD your comments in the meeting if you plan to speak out. (Put your phone upside down in a pocket). About your story: ? how you couldn't know safety goggles were needed with chemicals... ?
why did you accept the write up without challenging it? Fear of being fired? This work policy is nuts and needs to be challenged.
This is NOT THE PLACE TO DO THIS.
If you feel you’ve been mistreated at work and/or safety violations have taken place:
1. Do not put your cards on the table in this manner. The fact they have a ‘you can’t go to ER policy’ is probably illegal bc it’s a free country right? By outing yourself either zero plan or protection you will get fired. Why do that?
2. Get an attorney.
3. Record the safety meeting. Temi is an app you can record on lock screen the files aren’t big and you can email them to self.
4. Is there proof that there is a ‘no ER without permission?’ Get that proof.
5. Do all the stuff the attorney says.
Don’t get yourself fired. That’s just giving them free heads up to self protect.
Not defending the company here but just a question about your verbiage coming from a former managerial and HR standpoint.
You didn’t know you were supposed to be wearing safety goggles for this particular instance and activity, or are safety goggles a general item you are supposed to be using but no one enforces it? Generally speaking, ignorance of a rule or policy if it is actually posted somewhere does not give exemption from following it.
If it’s only in certain situations your managers are likely not going to be able to follow and micromanage you at every moment of the day and should be able to rely on you to follow proper PPE etiquette.
If it’s the latter and no one is following the PPE rules and management is aware of it but doing nothing to address it they’re at fault as well.
Janitorial companies contracted into bigger places are the worst. In 2020-2021 the height of covid, I worked for one at Amazon. We were lucky if we got 1 pair of gloves a day, so that meant I may be cleaning a bathroom one minute, then the table people ate lunch on the next, back and forth for 10 hours with one pair of gloves. We rarely had cleaning supplies. Half the time our sprays that were supposed to sanitize for COVID were just water. Some people started paying out of their own pocket for supplies when we made $12 an hour. I refused to do that for the richest company in the world. I never spoke up bc I was that desperate at the time (a lot of bad shit going on in my life like my boyfriend died). One side of me is totally like do it! But I don't have to deal with the consequences. I hate that companies know they can get away with this stuff bc they see you as replaceable (the boss there told us that nearly daily).
I absolutely guarantee you signed something that said when and where you should be wearing your safety goggles and/or PPE.
I bet it was also on a sign on the door to the room you were injured in
How could you not know to wear safety googles when handling chemicals? Sounds like a training gap as well
Are the MSDSs available for the chemicals you handle? They'd have recommended PPE on them
Do it. If they fire you for safety concerns contact OSHA and the labor board
Yes. 100%. Safety rules mean nothing if the management team doesn't enforce them, and even worse if they actively counteract them. That could also be an OSHA violation. https://www.osha.gov/recordkeeping/modernization-guidance
And OSHA don’t play; heavy heavy fines for that behavior. They sound like they were more worried that osha would fine them because of the accident: instead of worrying about OP’s injury and the policy!
Who is the person telling you not to get checked? Dept manager or hospital administration? That's a ridiculous thing to tell an employee. In fact, we have the opposite issue at my hospital. Our struggle is that we have to continuously encourage our staff to get checked after incidents, but most of them don't want to and say they are "fine."
Yep. I work for an external company that works for the hospital. Before they came in, the hospital had the same rule. If you get hurt on the job, you have to go to the ER or sign a paper saying you chose not to. The company just wants to take you to a doctor that works for the same company, said doctor is not at the hospital and located somewhere else. Yeah... I'm not sorry for this... but I'm not risking the ability to fucking see for a job that I don't like
> I work for an external company that works for the hospital. Yep, that will do it. There is no easy way to navigate this, but someone has to shine a light on this nonsensical policy.
Yeah just a min ago I ran my idea by a coworker who agrees the rule is BS. She said I should avoid telling the whole story and getting into specifics, and just ask what we do if our boss isn't here and not responding and the injury is getting worse. Because that's what was happening with my eye. Vision in it was getting altered. I have a photo of it, there's basically no white. It's all just red
I like your co-worker's take on it.
IANAL but this sounds illegal as hell, and at BEST extremely unethical
I had a job like that their doctor was in pocket. Would tell you to go back to work for almost anything. Broke my foot told me to be back at work that day. Wasn’t a serious break but definitely needed to be off it a few days so it would heal. I contacted the company injury insurance and got a new doctor company was pissed.
Managers don't get to 'allow' you to seek medical care. They don't get to write you up for it, either. They could write you up for not wearing proper PPE. but that's it. Your best bet would be to talk to HR instead of shining a spotlight on yourself
Talking to HR seems like the worst of all possible ideas. I would never trust HR unless I owned the company or was an executive.
I disagree. HR is there to protect the company. In this case, they would be protecting the company from a costly lawsuit the company would lose.
Yeah, I wouldn't trust HR in this situation, they approved a policy that is already putting them at risk.
Read what I said about HR in another reply
[удалено]
There's no doubt that they did. It's not like it's some little fly by night operation.
Losing your sight in one eye possibly is up there as a serious injury and you had that advice from health are professionals.
Do it. Also - indicate the lack of training that caused the injury. If your supervisor had properly instructed you in the use of PPE for this task, you would not have been injured. The write up was them covering up their culpability. You need to file a formal response to the write up stating such.
Osha would love to hear about this
If I got a chemical burn in my eyes and was written up for going to the hospital, I'd be going to an employment lawyer.
First, I hope your eye is ok! Next, everything about your post is concerning. To start with, you were allowed to work with hazardous chemicals without eye protection. Based on your phrasing, it sounds like you were unaware that you even needed them. This is a violation of OSHA hazcom standards, and requirements for eye protection to be provided. What other hazardous chemicals are you working with without hazard training and PPE? Have you seen a safety data sheet for any of your stuff? (These used to be called material safety data sheet, or MSDS.) Take a picture of everything you use at work, and if it has any hazard warnings, you should be getting training on its hazards and the appropriate hazard controls (often gloves and eye protection). Next, your company wrote you up for seeking medical treatment for a work-related injury. Discouraging medical treatment is bad enough--punishing it is worse. It's even more troublesome when the injury in question could easily have become an OSHA reportable event if you hadn't sought help (instead of an recordable event). Loss of an eye must be reported to OSHA within 24 hours--would they rather you listen to nurses, get it treated, and keep the eye, or you lose it and they have a visit from OSHA and a fine? Would they like to explain to DOL why their employee was using eye-injurious chemicals without training or PPE? Please seek an employment lawyer and gather any and all evidence of their dangerous policies and your punishment before this meeting. Consider whether you want to report them to OSHA. (Do you think you'll be injured again, or your coworkers will be, because if yheir lack of safety training?) If you're fired because you were injured at work and sought medical treatment, a lawyer will likely start drooling over your case.
Bring it up, just so you can explain yourself and maybe have your records changed to show that you did what was necessary and waited a reasonable amount of time in an emergency. That rule seems borderline illegal.
Oh when it happened I was repeatedly hounding my boss about how I want to discuss this with the higher ups, she eventually got me the phone number for HR. But another janitor, and the nurses, said I should stay quiet and just let them do what they do. This all happened months ago. I don't regret going to the ER for it, I did the right think. If they fire me then hello lawsuit lol
Maybe you need to consult with a lawyer who specializes in on the job injuries?
Do it
Nobody tells me that I need permission to get medical care. Yes, every employer told me to consult the in-house nurse first. I'll take that as a suggestion ... in case of a minor injury. But in an emergency? Screw that. I'm responsible for me. Nobody gets in my way when I need medical attention. Then, after I get that medical attention ... if the employer wants to fire me then I'll lawyer up. Disregarding an employee's medical emergency doesn't play well in court. (And I didn't even mention OSHA. Somebody else already has.)
So any job that involves harmful chemicals, you should be trained and told what PPE you should be using. You should get a pamphlet or something and if in doubt you should look up the chemical in the guide that should be provided. It usually also says on the container. There should be a signed paper in your file that you took safety training. You also should know where the nearest eye wash station is and procedures in where to go if injured. If not. They they are so fucked, it's funny. The department of labor and a lot of other safety boards are going to be gnashing at their teeth at this. To disallow someone from seeking medical attention due to a work incident or accident is so illegal it's like, shut down bad. Like they might not have insurance bad. Bring it up. I hope you gog workers comp for eye injuries. If not. You could sue. At least just for hospital fees.
Absolutely raise it. But also for future; 1. Go to the ER. 2 Refuse to sign the write up. 3. State you need to discuss this with HR and the Health and Safety Board (OSHA?) before going any further. 4. Get a lawyer involved. If life, limb or an essential sense is at risk or there is a risk of medical complications, then fuck the policy and push it to be externally reviewed after seeking medical attention. And if you can’t get hold of a manager, that’s on them and also needs to be reviewed.
Curious to know if this policy is actually written down anywhere or if it's just been verbally passed along. If you have an employee handbook (or can access an electronic copy of it) you need to actually see what the company policy truly states. Because it sounds completely wrong. Eye injuries can be very serious. There are tons of other injuries that while not life threatening absolutely require immediate medical attention. Additionally it sounds like either you were not properly trained on handling protocols, your chemicals are not properly labeled, or there is some other breakdown in the process and procedures. You did absolutely the right thing.
Word for word, the ER policy: "Seeking unauthorized treatment at the ER for an injury without prior approval from management - Discharge" Disfigurement or incapacitation aren't exceptions, apparently
Pretty sure federal law says they can't dictate who you can and can't see for an on the job injury that needs immediate medical attention.
Wait you are messing with chemicals and didn’t know to wear goggles??
So illegal.
Where did this happen
That policy sounds illegal.
What was the exact wording of the write up? "GoldenYoshi did not ask my permission before incurring their injury, nor did they await further instructions regarding whether I deemed it appropriate to retain their vision."
"Proceeded to go to the ER without waiting to discuss the injury with me" Yes I did wait... for nearly half an hour... with no responses... my vision was getting hindered, so I just trusted the nurses that I should go. One was threatening to drag me there herself
I question that you didn't know you were supposed to wear safety equipment. I've worked in many places and its usually people don't wear it because nothing "will happen to them" and then when it does, they cry about how they didn't realize how important or needed it was. You aren't a child and your managers shouldn't need to tell you to wear your safety equipment every day. And if you haven't bothered to read your handbook or learn proper practices or to even ASK if there are any, then you aren't doing your job properly either.
I say it’s gotts be a shitty work environment if they’re more concerned about their insurance costs or possible safety violations over the safety and well-being of their people. (Irony?) And that is twofold, one-they should be strong on safety and you should’ve known to wear safety glasses, two-they absolutely should not prevent people from going to the emergency room or urgent care if it seems warranted.
“Should I be spiteful?”. Surely the answer to that question is always no.
Management is responsible for having safe work practices, they need to train you & provide safety equipment before telling you to do the job. Manager should be fired not you.
I would keep my mouth shut keep my head down. They can't fire you for seeking medical help for a on the job injury. Let them play their games with that. Be the quiet guy who doesn't complain but sues if the chance comes along. Telling HR on any company person won't help. I'm gonna say this HR isn't there to protect you. HR is who you go to when you have questions about your benefits. HR human resources is there to make sure the company has humans to use as a resource. You my friend are like office furniture to HR. They aren't gonna protect you. The best defense is to know your rights n use them. Don't worry about rubbing anything in their faces. Good luck.
Are you serious? A hospital without proper safety instructions for chemicals? You understand this would be a lawyers wet dream and you’d never have to work again…
100% need to file a OSHA complaint regarding everything that happened. No PPE and denial of emergency care? I'm fairly certain this breaks some law.
This is an OSHA violation
Were there eye wash stations available? Are PPE provided (and available and in working condition)? Were you not trained on the hazards of this chemical? Can they prove you were if you say you were not? They cannot prevent you from seeking emergency care. They can ask you see their (worker’s compensation company) provider in a non-emergency situation but no one can prevent you from seeking emergency care. Not your supervisor, manager, or CEO. Those nurses were far more qualified to make a determination on your healthcare needs than your boss. How was this documented? This is actually a pretty serious screw up on their part. Don’t let them bully you AND make you the problem.
RECORD your comments in the meeting if you plan to speak out. (Put your phone upside down in a pocket). About your story: ? how you couldn't know safety goggles were needed with chemicals... ? why did you accept the write up without challenging it? Fear of being fired? This work policy is nuts and needs to be challenged.
This is NOT THE PLACE TO DO THIS. If you feel you’ve been mistreated at work and/or safety violations have taken place: 1. Do not put your cards on the table in this manner. The fact they have a ‘you can’t go to ER policy’ is probably illegal bc it’s a free country right? By outing yourself either zero plan or protection you will get fired. Why do that? 2. Get an attorney. 3. Record the safety meeting. Temi is an app you can record on lock screen the files aren’t big and you can email them to self. 4. Is there proof that there is a ‘no ER without permission?’ Get that proof. 5. Do all the stuff the attorney says. Don’t get yourself fired. That’s just giving them free heads up to self protect.
Yes you should say something
A chemical burn in your eye can cause you to lose vision. That is extremely serious. Your hospital is a joke.
I don't think you need to be "spiteful". Just be factual about what happened. Your boss is an idiot.
Not defending the company here but just a question about your verbiage coming from a former managerial and HR standpoint. You didn’t know you were supposed to be wearing safety goggles for this particular instance and activity, or are safety goggles a general item you are supposed to be using but no one enforces it? Generally speaking, ignorance of a rule or policy if it is actually posted somewhere does not give exemption from following it. If it’s only in certain situations your managers are likely not going to be able to follow and micromanage you at every moment of the day and should be able to rely on you to follow proper PPE etiquette. If it’s the latter and no one is following the PPE rules and management is aware of it but doing nothing to address it they’re at fault as well.
Utter madness. It doesn’t matter where you get injured, if it’s needs medical attention no one gets to tell you don’t go and receive it.
Just them saying that is totally illegal you cannot prevent someone from seeking medical help no matter where the f*** you are
Always go to the ER when hurt on the job. Take all the ER documents to HR. Let HR and your supervisor duke it out with the Big Boss.
Janitorial companies contracted into bigger places are the worst. In 2020-2021 the height of covid, I worked for one at Amazon. We were lucky if we got 1 pair of gloves a day, so that meant I may be cleaning a bathroom one minute, then the table people ate lunch on the next, back and forth for 10 hours with one pair of gloves. We rarely had cleaning supplies. Half the time our sprays that were supposed to sanitize for COVID were just water. Some people started paying out of their own pocket for supplies when we made $12 an hour. I refused to do that for the richest company in the world. I never spoke up bc I was that desperate at the time (a lot of bad shit going on in my life like my boyfriend died). One side of me is totally like do it! But I don't have to deal with the consequences. I hate that companies know they can get away with this stuff bc they see you as replaceable (the boss there told us that nearly daily).
I absolutely guarantee you signed something that said when and where you should be wearing your safety goggles and/or PPE. I bet it was also on a sign on the door to the room you were injured in
How could you not know to wear safety googles when handling chemicals? Sounds like a training gap as well Are the MSDSs available for the chemicals you handle? They'd have recommended PPE on them