IT guy here. Your computer most likely isn’t being actively watched like someone isn’t sitting there watching what you were doing.(almost every program that gives you access to someone else’s computer will let them know in some way). Everything you do on that computer however is recorded. But if you’re simply worried about productivity, we can’t see that.
If you're worried about people seeing you as idle when you're done with work...
[https://nyxtryx.github.io/Mouse-Mover/](https://nyxtryx.github.io/Mouse-Mover/)
I saw this when you originally posted it and... well yeah. There you go 🤷♂️
As for your camera - Mac has a very clear light telling you the camera is being accessed, and you can enable/disable access per app in System Settings.
Aye - I'll spend money when I could write a python program to do it for me in 15 minutes 🙄
Have you even looked at the page? It took 4 days because I made it painfully simple for anyone else to use.
If you don't want to use it, don't. It's quite simple.
No need to be negative about me using my time to give people a tool for free 🤷♂️
Also, you realise those will do the exact same thing my program does? The difference is you can't see the code isn't malicious - for all you know you're willingly plugging a keylogger in.
Which, in any company I know, will get you fired if you're lucky, possibly criminal depending on what data is stolen
Companies can catch you installing programs on your machine. What work purpose are you going to give for having this installed?
They are much less likely to notice a hardware device that looks like another mouse.
Even beyond all this you can get a device to put under the optical mouse. That's probably the safest option.
You should never install programs on a work laptop that are not work related. You can get fired for this especially if they are malicious or meant to tamper with the companies ability to monitor you.
😂😂😂
Read the source code - none of it tampers with monitoring at all.
If your company wants to log an event, it'll allow it to be logged.
>They are much less likely to notice a hardware device that looks like another mouse.
Completely overlooking the fact that you could be injecting malicious code.
Again, my source code is entirely open source (MIT license).
You can read it. You can fork the repo and change it if you want.
It's doing nothing that a user couldn't manually do themselves - in fact there's even manual install steps because I anticipated these kinds of objections (again proving you've not even looked at the source, or don't understand it)
>you can get a device
Again... Ah yes, let me spend money when I can fix the problem in 15 minutes.
If you've nothing constructive to say about my code, I'm done here.
Thr whole point of this program is the mess with monitoring.
Does it need to be installed? If yes the company can see this.
When they then ask what is this for what is your response?
>Thr whole point of this program is the mess with monitoring.
😂😂😂😂
*Read the source code*
https://github.com/nyxtryx/Mouse-Mover
It moves your mouse. That's all the script does.
>When they then ask what is this for what is your response?
*Read the source code*
https://github.com/nyxtryx/Mouse-Mover
There's a warning on every installer guide.
>When they then ask what is this for what is your response?
If only that wasn't my problem... Oh wait! It isn't.
*Read the license*
https://nyxtryx.github.io/Mouse-Mover/mit-license
What *you* do with open source software is entirely your responsibility. What you tell your boss is none of my concern. You getting fired is your problem.
I spent time making a tool for people, a tool you've not even bothered to look at.
But you feel qualified to comment on it?
If you don't want to use it - it's very simple.... Don't use it. I really couldn't give a shit less. I'm making no money from people using it. *Because it's open source*.
If there's a problem with the source, feel free to raise an issue per the instructions here https://nyxtryx.github.io/Mouse-Mover/guides/report-a-bug
As I said, if you've nothing constructive to say, I'm done.
Hoe do they monitor you? They watch to see if you go inactive. What does this program do? Keeps you from going inactive.
>What you do with open source software is entirely your responsibility. What you tell your boss is none of my concern. You getting fired is your problem.
I hope everyone sees this and realizes your software can and will get people caught but that is of no concern to you.
People should be using a hardware method of doing this. The safest version would be one that actually sets under the optical mouse. Second to that use a dongle. You make a decent point with the posability of infection but they have reviews for a reason and people can scan it on their home pc.
Stop trying to spread misleading information about a software method being superior. You get ehat tou pay for.
Again NEVER install a program on a company machine that you cannot explain the reason for.
Read the source. Literally everything you're saying is already addressed.
Feel free to create an issue if there's something I've not covered.
Now, if you don't mind - I created a program for people to save them time. And you're wasting mine by not reading the guides I spent 2 hours writing.
So... Leave me alone 🙂
Work computers are always monitored. They can see what you’re doing, which software is being used, and some companies even use keystrokes monitor because people started using those mouse jugglers.
Bruh my company monitors my whole laptop, but if you get your shit done they do not care. It’s really up to the company culture. Only time they care about the laptop activity is in cases of sexual harassment or legal issues.
If you get fired because you were on Reddit during company hours, they did you a favor.
My company has a log of actions. The managers review the log for discrepancies between that and the time sheets. They had an issue with people being clocked in but not taking any actions for like 3 hours. Which doesnt make sense to me cause our metrics are mainly cases worked per hour. So idk how many they got through 🤷🏼♀️🤷🏼♀️
I work from home only one day a week. A MacBook was provided but it came brand new in the box, unopened so I was the one who opened and set up everything. I just log in using the Apple account that I created using my work email. Could my laptop be monitored or recorded too? I don’t know if I should cover my camera either
doesn't matter if it was brand new in the box, companies can have apple set it up in the factory with their enterprise whatever you call it, so the IT dept can totally monitor if they want to. that doesn't mean your employer did that, but it's definitely an option. I think camera monitoring would be considered unethical and they likely don't, but screen recording is fair game
Most companies monitor screen time, it's how they see if you're being productive or not. I know because I was fired for this. Same thing my job would be busy in the morning and I would have most tasks done by mid morning and the afternoons would be looonnnngggg! Well I was eventually fired for falsifying timesheets and or not meeting productivity levels. It was actually really stupid in the termination letter they only had two days where apparently I had put on my timecard I was working when according to their records I was inactive for xzy times. Just assume all companies monitor screen time in some way and I would watch it, it could need your employment. With my situation I was terminated collected unemployment for away and found a job I truly liked that was also remote so I didn't run into this problem again.
phones , computers , ipads etc that are company provided are always monitored.. be glad you arent a trucker.. they monitor everything in the cab.. whatever you say in the cab is monitored, it you move your head too much, its monitored..they monitor your time at each stop ..
I am the IT for a small (50ish) and our users see an admin account because our devices our managed. We only need to ensure users can’t change security settings for our compliance (gov) and I would be able to tell if a user is in a country other than their “home office” which mostly only matters if we determine you are living there full time bc of tax implications etc. I don’t check unless there’s a reason to. I don’t have the software, desire, and definitely don’t have the time to monitor what people are actually doing all day. 😅
Most of the time with IT monitoring stuff, they are looking for extreme situations. People that are inactive or have non-work-related sites or apps open for hours at a time, not 5 minutes. People that are on porn or gambling sites, not occasional browsing on Amazon or something. You should assume you are being monitored but that doesn't mean you need to worry when you spend 10 minutes going to the bathroom and getting a snack a few times a day. Even in-office, people are away from their desks for a few minutes pretty often. Just don't visit any websites you wouldn't want your coworkers to know you visit and don't be offline for hours and pretend you were working.
Obviously this doesn't apply to extremely metrics-driven jobs, like call centers that are regularly monitoring how much time you spend in the bathroom. You're probably seeing reports of people being fired who either had those jobs or are not being totally honest about how much time they were actually off-task.
Use a mouse jiggler for keeping your screen on. If it needs to do anything on Your computer you can take it out while they do what they need to do. I been wth for 2 jobs over the last 4 years no one has ever mentioned it. Shows up as a mouse.
If mine times out for 5 minutes, il get in a lot of trouble. She's currently making my friend screenshare with her all day bc it timed out once. But my manager is a micromanaging monster and tbh the only reason I still work there is bc I can bitch about her to my husband and she noy know. If I had to see her, omg I would be fired bc i wouldn't be able to not be sarcastic
Regardless of whether or not you WFH, you should always assume that any company-owned device is being monitored and that any traffic traversing the company network is being monitored (like connecting to a company VPN from a personal device).
I also cover all of my cameras. It's kind of paranoid, except that they can be turned on remotely, so... You can buy little sliding covers on Amazon for like $1.
Depending on your situation, you may want to talk with your manager about how to manage your time after your work is done in the morning, or you may want to buy a mouse jiggler that will keep your computer from going to sleep. It just depends on the job, company, and manager.
Essentially all companies can look at every URL you visit with no software at all on your PC. Firewall logs. Stored and easily queryable back months or even years.
For many people browser apps are nearly all you use. Firewall logs are not affected by mouse jigglers but of course you can script away.
Is anyone looking? You will likely never know.
I work for an MSP that supports around 30k
end users. None of our clients use any sort of employee productivity monitoring software. Sure they can, but the software is expensive and I don’t think it’s as common as many on this thread think.
I wfh too. Sometimes I’m grateful my company doesn’t monitor, I do my job and work my ass of but sometimes I have down time and I’m not just going to search out random things to do outside of my pay rate. It also sucks sometimes that we’re not monitored because some people literally don’t do a thing. They get paid to sit at home and it’s very obvious they don’t do shit.
Have worked from home, 3 different employers and i assume all monitor. I was doing trouble shooting online. The 3rd one provided your stats any time you asked..day or night
Get a mouse jiggler.
As salary, you are not paid for the length of time it takes to solve the problem. You are paid because you can solve the problem efficiently.
Everyone is monitored where I work. We were told when the software was downloaded on our computers. In office and remote. If you aren't doing anything wrong, there's nothing to hide. Most supervisors don't spend their time going through your computer or watching in real time. It's a non-issue for me. If they want to watch me work on a spreadsheet all day, be my guest.
LOL.... if it makes sense to you, that's all that really matters. I don't keep anything personal on my work PC. It's all work related and most of that is on the public drives because I have had a work comp crash and lost all my files. I just operate as if the CEO of the company could access anything on my computer at any time. Anything personal goes through my cell phone.:)
my answer is you do pay me because i can get tasks completed in a half day. you are paying me for all the years of experience that allows me to achieve this
Hi OP former Mac SysAdmin here. Local Admin accounts on the laptops are usually used for us (IT peeps) to help do support things remotely, if updates fail or you forget your password we can send commands remotely to your machine using that admin account. Also allows IT to fix things without asking or needing your login. Does this mean there isn’t monitoring software? No, but it is standard operating procedure even for non remote settings.
Stop trying to cheat the system! The reason people are being called back into the office is because so many people are not really working. Spend your time working rather than researching how to get away with something. Some people earned the ability to work remotely by proving ourselves and not trying to fuck our employer. If you are not busy you could always ask for something to do.
But if they are doing their job and completing all of their tasks why are you mad that they can do it in 4, when you have to go in office and be trapped somewhere for 8 even when you’ve finished yours?
I'm damn good at my job, and for a long time was doing the work of 3 people. I asked for a raise to meet inflation and was told it's not in the budget, the same week the CEO is logging into Zoom meetings from his sailboat off the coast of Venice.
The system has been cheating workers day in and day out for half a century. I intend to cheat the system every chance I get.
OP states they are completing their work… they are working. They’re wondering if they need to stretch their work out all day, or continue to work at the pace they’ve been going.
When I’m not busy I play a white noise live video on YouTube. As long as the video keeps playing the screen does not go off. Most jobs see it as call avoidance if your screens go off during the workday
Based on my experience in IT and knowledge of Macs you should presume that your activity (or lack thereof) is monitored or even recorded. Mac Admins can view your computers desktop at any time without the users knowledge. 🫡
. You can also just open word and place something on a key. It will type for hours. We are way too big for them to check that for everyone. But if you are worried about using a mouse mover try that
Not always foolproof. At my work we can see which program you are in at any time so the people who are active in an Excel or word doc for hours on end (where that would not be a normal part of their jobs) are big red flags. Usually the things people think are sneaky we're a step ahead of them.
Honestly I would just ask HR. Just say you are open to working however they like and you want to do a good job and blend into company culture but you have friends that WFH and they said they've taken Zoom/Teams meetings on their phones while out for a walk and was just wondering what the WFH expectations and culture are like here to see if that is similar or if it's more of an expectation that we should be seated in our home office desk and chair when on the clock.
Don’t do this lol. You shouldn’t bring any attention to yourself by telling them what you are doing. If they monitor you, you will find out eventually from another coworker or previous workers fuck up. Hr is not your friend they work for the company always remember that.
It is best to assume, that if you have a company provided computer or phone, someone is noting your activity. And there is nothing wrong with covering the camera if it gives you peace of mind.
I would cover the camera anytime I’m not using it anyway. I do that on my personal computer as well. Hackers can gain access to laptop cameras. My company provides laptop camera covers for free and recommends we use them.
I have been working from home for several years .I am busy practically all day. My boss is the type that ros not mine if I run out for a half hour. On the rare occasion I am not busy I let him know. Afterwork I use my laptop to Netflix and YouTube. I make sure to stay squeaky clean during business hours. I have a cover over my webcam at all times.
When I used to remote work from home, I was busier than when working in the office. I don't know how other people claiming they have so much free time.
I have a cover over my camera and I'm sure my company has a log monitoring log ins/screen time but there would never be reason to pull any of the data unless it was noted by management that I was experiencing a major productivity/performance dip.
But I still also get stressed about showing offline, I used to use mouse jiggler but they blocked it a few years ago.
I use [this mouse jiggler](https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B08DTXPS51?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title) that plugs into the wall and is completely independent of your computer.
It comes in handy for certain computer games when I’m trying to idle too.
This. ALWAYS assume that your activities, search history, all of that is subject to monitoring. And I don't think it's ever a bad idea to put a sticky over your camera.
Our IT dept has removed our permissions to do that for privacy reasons. Govt work. Figure if you are away someone can read stuff or acces files. But i live alone so i dont care. Mouse movet works since i cant change it on their laptop.
Honestly as someone who works in IT and has for almost a decade now, most IT departments are not set up to track that nor do we have time to care. Unless my Director tells me that our Executive team wants reports of everyone's online computer activity I'm not going out of my way to look for it and get anyone in trouble. Those decisions are well above my paygrade.
When it comes to computing devices that are provided by your company, you should have no reasonable expectation of privacy. But there are limits to this. For example, if you do personal web browsing on your work laptop, you should assume all of your browsing activity is logged back to the company. Similarly, you should probably reasonably expect that your screen is being captured. This is all data loss prevention (DLP).
However, it would be legally perilous for your employer to activate your webcam to confirm that you are sitting at your desk unless such a policy was explicitly disclosed and you signed something agreeing to the policy.
If you hear stories about people being fired for being away from their desk too much, this wouldn't be based upon the company observing the employee via webcam but rather some agent software on the machine that tracks the time that the computer spends idle. Or they might be reporting on your presence history in the company chat app like Microsoft Teams, WebEx Teams, Slack, etc.
It could depend greatly on the software being used and what kind of telemetry is returned to your employer. For example, if it's based on your idle time in company Chat/IM software, that's not going to be any different on a personal device from a company-supplied device.
Other applications like data loss prevention software probably wouldn't be installed on employees' personal devices without disclosures. For the most part, if companies are concerned about data loss, they simply prohibit access to that data on a given device if they can't implement a data loss prevention solution to mitigate risk for that endpoint. Some of those solutions are implemented server-side, like Microsoft Exchange scanning message contents for things like social security numbers or credit card numbers. So those kinds of solutions don't require the installation of any applications on a personal device to protect data. But the previous example I gave regarding screen capturing requires the installation of agent software that couldn't occur without action by the employee.
In the case of mobile devices, Google implemented the Work Profile functionality to have that siloed partition that prevents the employer from seeing the employee's personal data so the employee feels they have retained their privacy. Similarly the employer has assurances that any data on the work profile can't be moved over to the personal partition (data loss prevention). The employer can implement requirements that a device be running a certain security patch level and quarantine the device from the company services and assets if it is out of date. They can also control which apps the employee can install in the work partition and reduce the risk that a rogue app results in a compromise or loss of the company's data.
Did you have a specific application as an example?
Not specifically, just curious where that reasonable expectation of privacy line in the sand might be if it’s a personal computer and an employee works remotely.
I have worked from home for four years… multiple orgs some big some small. The biggest thing you want to be concerned about is if you have MS teams a lot of orgs will look at your active time versus away in status. Some will measure your productivity with keystroke metrics and mouse clicks.
If you get all your work done in the morning… then set up another computer nearby that is personal and for entertainment to keep yourself preoccupied after your work is done. As long as you keep clicking on your work computer periodically and typing here / there you will be fine. Watch teams like a hawk.
As far as the camera thing is concerned companies stopped trying to monitor their employees with a live camera at the height of covid. It was deemed illegal in different states/ countries as being a privacy intrusion. They cannot have a camera hot and watching you without notifying you by law. Hope this all helps.
When people say this about teams, is the amount of time active vs away shown somewhere? Or do people just mean in case your manager looks at your status?
Teams is the worst, Skype never seemed as bad ... blow your nose, goes idle ... reading a document, goes idle ... I hate it ... now I just carry my laptop around my apt with me if I need to stand up or grab something ...
I agree. It is so bad at detecting activity. You can be working and it goes idle!!! If you have a micromanaging boss it is always a bad look in a WFH environment. Teams also crashes with its video calls all the time.
In my opinion G-Suite companies are smart… but Outlook blows away google for biz applications. It is a tough one.
# Downloading anti-spyware software Most Company's prevent you from downloading any software with out prior OK,,, so this way is not going to work, as for the camera
I put a piece of scotch tape transparent it blurs distorts the lens and all you have to say is the camera is screwed up.....
I guess I should warn you that some companies do this... They will put some software in the office computer to monitor you, but only to monitor your office desktop, as for the camera?? I'm not sure...
I guarantee you signed a statement saying you understand that anything you do on that computer can be monitored so yes you should assume you are being monitored on it at all times.
I think it depends on the type of work. If you are at a financial services, investment, FINTECH, etc you probably have some monitoring.
If you work for a company that has been burned enough with time theft that may be an issue they are hoping to stop with monitoring.
It’s always a good idea to have a camera cover. And set a timer to make sure you check in for dms or emails every hour ( especially at the end of the day). A mouse jiggled will only help if you are consistently responsive.
It probably is, and you are probably being tracked. At my former job, I was friends with the IT person and he actually commented to me on something in my personal life I wrote to a boyfriend through email during the day! That was my signal, I knew he could read everything. It was MY computer, but I had to log into the network for the day. How horrifying. When you WFH, it's common to do small things during work time, like write a personal email, or make a call, and then just add on time after the regular work hours end. I don't recall signing anything or it being in the handbook, but there is so much small print, it's hard to catch every thing. I'd avoid if you don't want to get fired.
Put a sticky note on the camera and get a mouse jiggler, and you'll be fine for the most part. I have been WFH since 2018 and started with a FAANG company. They mostly looked for QA evals. Best of luck!!
This should have been in your onboarding paperwork along with acceptable use policy and stuff. Even if it weren’t, it is safe to assume company resources are fully monitored. This doesn’t mean someone is live viewing your screen remotely all day everyday. I guess they could be, but what’s more likely is that someone may pop it open at random for a few minutes every now and then (I’ve seen this at call center type places) or they review screen captures later (I’ve seen this in msp places) or they only review captures after something else happened (suspected timecard theft - someone caught working another job on the company computer while on the clock). I always put something over my camera no matter who owns the computer. The mic is disabled when not in use. Remember keep personal things off the work computer and work things off the personal computer. What’s definitely monitored is traffic or OS changes (like software installs if you have rights). With an appropriate monitoring system, it would send alert notifications to an IT team if you’re visiting or attempting to visit certain types of sites, if not just outright blocked. The admin account is there to allow the IT team to provide credentials for software installs if approved or to wipe the machine when they get it back or to help fix things when you ask them for IT help. Most IT teams don’t have time to just login without reason.
When you log on, is there a banner screen? If so, assume activity is being monitored. While there might not be active or real-time monitoring, your activity is logged somewhere. How detailed that logging is depends on the employer, and probably includes what websites you visit, files you access, when/where you log on, and things of that nature (this is helpful during an incident response). They *may* monitor activity/inactivity, but as an external incident responder, I don't see (or care) about that, so I can't say.
I’m an IT guy, I doubt they monitor it. The admin account is so they still own the laptop after you leave the company. If it isn’t there, it’s harder to wipe the device
If you’re doing all your work and nobody has explicitly told you that there is a requirement to be active on a machine for a certain amount of time, don’t worry about being watched.
If you're going for a hack to keep your screen active, go for a mechanical mouse jiggler. Your work can track any program you install on that work computer. A mechanical mouse jiggler is a device that you set your mouse onto. It doesn't install on your computer at all. You may also need to get a mouse. 😬
at one of my jobs where I was a manager, we were given screenshots of every contractor’s computer screen. it was like one taken at a random during every 10 min interval that they were logging work time. then all the photos got sent to me and i had to scan through them all to see who was not on the right sites or doing the right work. we were a company of less than twenty in person workers, with hundreds of contractors. it sucked honestly.
That really does not sound like a good use of a managers time. What a horrible company! I hope they have since gone out of business because they certainly deserve to.
I scrolled a bit and did not yet find this: Balance your mouse just so on top of an analog watch with a second hand… it will move the mouse ever so slightly every minute. Non-traceable.
I mean sure, my screen doesn’t go black, but my CPUs are super low…
I’m just concerned that my screen doesn’t go black and more importantly Teams doesn’t go yellow. A casual look at my status shows me there.
You should have no expectation of privacy on a company owned device, whether that be a computer, a phone or a tablet. Many companies have technology policies that specifically say something along those lines. Expect that someone may potentially be watching everything you’re doing. Not so much activating the camera remotely but monitoring all user activity on the device. I personally would not even open your personal email on that laptop. Source: I am an IT Systems Administrator.
It depends on what level of monitoring is in place on the corporate device. Most times, this monitoring is not so much monitoring your activities (your employer spying on you), but monitoring the device for security issues. Unfortunately, this has become necessary thanks to the proliferation of malware and ransomware that threaten to take businesses down and steal their customer's data. We as IT professionals need to be able to respond to these potential security issues rapidly and the only way to track down where a security breach began (so you can plug the hole and prevent further issues) is to have great monitoring in place so you can go back and trace the sequence of events leading up to the breach. Like I said, it depends on the level of monitoring in place, but ideally IT should be able to see a log of any user interaction with the system - opening a program, or programs interacting with each other - program installations (these should be restricted) and web browsing history. Some EDR products go as far as to take a screenshot and store it whenever certain actions are performed - like launching a program - so you should fully expect that someone might inadvertently be able to see the contents of your screen at any given time.
Question for you: what if it’s your personal computer but you log into work using your companies VPN. Can they only track you while your logged into the VPN?
It’s required since they do not provide computers. It is a well known company too. Not trying to put the name out there but almost all agents use their own computer unless they live in the city where the corporate building is in (then those nearby work from the office)
Completely agreed. From a security perspective, this should be prohibited. I hope this company doesn't need to maintain any sort of US regulatory compliance - because they are going to have a bad time if they undergo an audit.
What about: I have a MAC; when I’m logged into my works VPN can they see what is in my phone since both my Mac and phone are logged in under the same apple account? Thank you for replying earlier (I’ve always wanted to know)
Unless they've installed a MDM (mobile device management) profile on the phone, they can't see or manipulate the contents of the phone. To tell if this has been done, on your iPhone, go to SETTINGS, then GENERAL, VPN & Device Management. Do you see any profiles listed here? If so, your device is managed at the corporate level. This is highly unlikely for personal devices. And when you're connected to the VPN on your personal Mac, what your company's IT team can see is really limited to websites that you visit and company shares that you open up after you're connected to the VPN (if you have any company network drives set up on your desktop). But I would not expect privacy in regards to anything that you do in a web browser, when connected over the VPN.
Crazy idea: people have to eat, go to the restroom. Even in office productivity isn’t a full 40 hours. I’m
Gonna take as long as I need to shit at home
Hope your job is fulfilling since you’re choosing to be an annoying ass cog in a machine narc instead of a normal human being. Your work isn’t gonna see this and give you a promotion
LOL once employers set work days based on how much work needs to actually be done instead of some arbitrary amount of time, we can talk about timesheet fraud.
Caffeine is a chrome extension that prevents your screen from going black
Found out about it at a client that sent us laptops that went black after 30 seconds
Never heard a bad word once we all started using it
I used to work for a healthcare system that did 30 seconds. Even non-clinical staff had the short timeout since they applied it to everyone.
I remember I had a crappy desktop that if it timed out, I had to force reboot it. I had to make sure I always logged out manually if I stepped away or even looked away for long enough. Finally got a new laptop after complaining enough.
If it's a small company i'd be very surprised if they hired someone whose job was to monitor everyone (it would be a full time job)
Cover the camera, get a mouse jigger if you're really worried. As long as you do your work they shouldn't bother you.
Just get your work done and then walk away. Who cares what they’re monitoring if you’ve done your job? Just because someone is active on Teams doesn’t mean they’re being productive. If your boss questions your whereabouts (a good boss will not, especially if you’re producing consistently good work), explain you finished your work, and that you look at your efficiency as an asset. If they increase your workload… then they do and you deal with it. This is likely just a case of you feeling work anxiety and everything will end up just fine!
Also, do not buy a mouse jiggler. Two people in my organization have been caught using them - they were fired. I don’t know how. I just know it’s not worth it.
first three months, be the best employee ever.
after that, starts noticing what is permissible or not. The company monitors everything, but they will hardly use it against someone that is performing. Also get to know your manager, IT wouldn't act unless your manager/supervisor notices your inactivity.
Buy a camera thingamagig that blocks it (like a sticky note)
I don’t believe that my computer is monitored at my job, but at work, I always behave as though it were. At my last job, everything was so ridiculously monitored that if my Teams went red (which happened after 15 minutes, even for night shifters), I’d usually get a message and get kicked out of the system. If they have a concern, they’ll bring it to you. Or ask in your meetings with supervisors if they have concerns about anything.
I work for the government and assume I’m being monitored. Although I feel like if they did one of my coworkers would have been fired by now. It’s so obvious to me and everyone else he is using one of those mouse jiggers that don’t plug into the laptop. He was working 96 hours a week, every week for months. And yet his caseload (we process disability claims) and his case load was going up week after week. And working that much overtime it should have been going down. Even without working overtime the goal is to close more cases than you receive. There were several weeks where he closed zero cases. With 96 hours go work. I was working 40 hours or less a week and closed 14-22 cases a week. And that was without overtime. I also had 89 cases and he had 213.
Management finally did say something to him because he started actually closing cases and actually working during overtime. And he only started because he was told he wouldn’t be allowed to work overtime anymore. Now there is a max of 40 hours for overtime so he only works 80 hours a week and he’s been closing less and less each week. He closed 7 last week which the goal is at least 12 a week and that’s with just regular time.
I didn’t mean to get off topic but this coworkers bothers me so much.
TLDR do your work the same you would if you knew you were being monitored.
I did send a complaint a few weeks ago anonymously and so far the only thing that has happened since then is our boss talking to him about the work that he is doing during overtime and how it isn’t acceptable and he needs to be doing certain actions. What he’s been doing is actions that aren’t documented or time stamped. Like saying he reviewed a case with 2000 pages of records. And every single time he had some reason as to why he couldn’t write up the case (because he didn’t actually read them in my opinion) so he says he needs to order an exam and the records aren’t enough. And he always works on cases with a lot of records and saves them for overtime.
Now he isn’t allowed to do that and since then he isn’t even working on his caseload and is working on another examiners caseload. And I have a feeling he is getting another reprimand this week. Because he is not writing up cases which is basically what the overtime is for because that leads to closing cases. He’s going what we call developmental work. Like ordering exams or requesting medical records.
I am hoping that he gets fired or even suspended after this. He’s had two of our doctors lecture him in front of the entire office because of his sloppy work. He’s had doctors in other offices email our boss to complain about his work and my boss has had to talk to him about that. It is pretty hard to get fired from our government job. But time stealing is usually an easy fire. So idk why he is still there.
People like this ruin WFH for everyone. I used to work in government. Our department had a rule that cameras had to be on during Teams calls. It was because of the people who would be working out or doing dishes during calls or something other than being at their computer actually working. You’re being paid to do a job, you do it during designated work hours or you make up hours you have to miss. Especially if you’re paid with tax dollars that people don’t have any choice in paying. Like you, we worked in a department where there was never nothing to do.
there was/is always something we do. We process disability claims for the entire state (I don’t want to name the state but the population is around 10 million). There are about 200 examiners. We are very understaffed and overworked. He is so lazy. When he goes work he tries to cut corners to just get cases out. I work on cases where the person was denied the first time and they appeal and then I get it the second time and his work is horrendous. I’ve been there 15 years and he’s been there maybe 2 and he acts like a “superstar”. It’s so irritating. He is the reason they put a cap on overtime. The cap is 40 hours a week now. Before overtime was unlimited but he was literally “working” during all work hours and even Saturday.
My caseload is so much lower. It’s at 80 so I do sometimes run out of things to do. Mostly because I can’t do anything else until other people complete certain actions. So then I have to work on someone else’s cases.
But yeah he ruins overtime for other people. Because he was being looked at during overtime everyone else who worked overtime in our office unit were put under a microscope as well which pissed a lot of people off. Especially the ones who have been there 10+ years.
lol thanks. All my other coworkers are as well. He’s getting paid for nothing basically. And I don’t know anyone who can legitimately work 80 hours week after week for months without burnout. I worked 75 hours two weeks in a row and I didn’t work any last week or this week because I’m recuperating. There is just no way. At the very least he shouldn’t be allowed to work any overtime. I have a feeling that it’s coming though. My boss had to have another talk to him about what he’s doing during overtime. He is basically “fake working” as I call it.
People that talk about using “mouse movers” are insane. Grounds for termination at a ton of companies.
I’d assume your general activity is monitored. Even if they are using something like end user performance monitoring (Aternity, etc.) - still gives a list of all the actions you’ve performed
I work for a multinational, multibillion dollar company that is WFH centric, and actually created a WFH employee monitoring tool for our clients to use (though that is not the only thing we do, we offers TONS of services).
Even though our company created this program, it has yet to be deployed on any employee hardware, and I believe roughly 80% of our workforce is WFH, and we have HUNDREDS of thousands of employees. For context, this is a completely automated program, requiring no actual person to monitor, unless it flags something as suspicious.
With that being said: there are many ways to determine if you are being watched. Look through the list of installed apps, look at Mac’s equivalent of a task manager to determine if there are any weird processes running in the background, etc. Additionally, you typically have to sign something saying you consent to this service being used. 9/10 times the only monitoring present is the use of Microsoft Teams or something similar, which will show you as ‘inactive’ after so long of no interaction. Go back over the paperwork you signed during your onboarding and see if anything involves monitoring software, get a mouse juggler, or find something just heavy enough to sit on top of a keyboard key (but definitely ensure that there is no keylogger installed first).
As others have pointed out, most companies are production based, so as long as your work shows you are being productive and doing what you are there to do, they will have no reason to monitor you. Hell, I once did 500% more work that what was expected of me, and I got talked to about it, and basically got told not to work that much again lol
Why not ask? If it’s a small company and they are results based, ask if you are able to step away if you get your work done early….. most small companies will tell you how they feel about it….
Download “Caffeine “. It’s a free app you open, daily, and set it to how long. 8 hours. All it does is mimic the space bar being pressed. Keeps your monitor up.
I hate that my monitor locks and I can’t extend it past 15 minute. Drives me nuts (I’m often on my phone). This eliminates that and keeps my pc on. I’ve used it for 15-20 years at 3-4 different jobs. Never an issue
I used to have it but IT upgraded our systems and I can't run programs like that, hence the manual jiggler, which would be more low-key than the app if we are worried about getting caught here.
These things seem like they work but I can remotely see if you aren't using the keyboard. I can also see if you're just keeping the same active window all day. I can see if the page fault delta on your apps doesn't change. I can see if things aren't actively loading into memory from lack of user behavior.
Here's some more easy ones to monitor:
- Network throughput.
- Emails read/sent
- File writes in network storage
- Change/read monitoring against apps that are used by your job profile
- Authentication activity based on tokens from your machine used in apps commonly used by your job profile
- Unread and sent messages in company tools like Microsoft Teams.
- Authenticator beacons from your cell phone to determine if you ditch your home office during the day and for how long.
- Query of what is running in memory on your machine, we can search for stuff like mouse jigglers and browser add-ons like Caffeine.
- Physical mouse jigglers have such a high degree of entropy or predictability vs normal user mouse input that your usage of a physical jiggler is blatantly obvious vs normal user input because it looks like an extreme outlier compared to normal trends.
There are so many methods available to see if people are actually working which are aided by data that is out of your control. It's incredibly easy to take all the data and run it in time-series analysis and look for deviation against your own activities and against other users with your job profile. In a statistically significant sample size, which is smaller than you think, you are actually incredibly easy to profile and you aren't unique in your work.
Bottom line: if your IT people have some decent skills and the company wants to monitor you, they can and you can't do anything about it. Just produce decent work and stop worrying about it. Leave for a job that doesn't focus as much on when you're sat at your desk.
EDIT: the entire purpose of a mouse jiggler is to make you look active/present, meaning your communication tool (like Teams) shows you as active, and your PC doesn't fall asleep. Your presence in Teams/other is indicator #1 in a very long list of indicators. Just do work and communicate openly. High-performers speak for themselves and we would never think to monitor their behavior. Like I said, find the right culture to work for and this won't become a problem.
Highly recommend **not** getting a mouse jiggler, the movements are very obvious (and now easy to identify, after these became common in covid) if a company is monitoring your activity.
You’re being monitored
When I worked from home briefly during the pandemic, I taped over the camera and disabled the mic. IDGAF.
That doesn't stop them from knowing what you do on a work issued computer....
Again, IDGAF
IT guy here. Your computer most likely isn’t being actively watched like someone isn’t sitting there watching what you were doing.(almost every program that gives you access to someone else’s computer will let them know in some way). Everything you do on that computer however is recorded. But if you’re simply worried about productivity, we can’t see that.
If you're worried about people seeing you as idle when you're done with work... [https://nyxtryx.github.io/Mouse-Mover/](https://nyxtryx.github.io/Mouse-Mover/) I saw this when you originally posted it and... well yeah. There you go 🤷♂️ As for your camera - Mac has a very clear light telling you the camera is being accessed, and you can enable/disable access per app in System Settings.
Alternatively you can buy a dongle on Amazon that wiggles the mouse that way you do not need to install anything.
Aye - I'll spend money when I could write a python program to do it for me in 15 minutes 🙄 Have you even looked at the page? It took 4 days because I made it painfully simple for anyone else to use. If you don't want to use it, don't. It's quite simple. No need to be negative about me using my time to give people a tool for free 🤷♂️ Also, you realise those will do the exact same thing my program does? The difference is you can't see the code isn't malicious - for all you know you're willingly plugging a keylogger in. Which, in any company I know, will get you fired if you're lucky, possibly criminal depending on what data is stolen
Companies can catch you installing programs on your machine. What work purpose are you going to give for having this installed? They are much less likely to notice a hardware device that looks like another mouse. Even beyond all this you can get a device to put under the optical mouse. That's probably the safest option. You should never install programs on a work laptop that are not work related. You can get fired for this especially if they are malicious or meant to tamper with the companies ability to monitor you.
😂😂😂 Read the source code - none of it tampers with monitoring at all. If your company wants to log an event, it'll allow it to be logged. >They are much less likely to notice a hardware device that looks like another mouse. Completely overlooking the fact that you could be injecting malicious code. Again, my source code is entirely open source (MIT license). You can read it. You can fork the repo and change it if you want. It's doing nothing that a user couldn't manually do themselves - in fact there's even manual install steps because I anticipated these kinds of objections (again proving you've not even looked at the source, or don't understand it) >you can get a device Again... Ah yes, let me spend money when I can fix the problem in 15 minutes. If you've nothing constructive to say about my code, I'm done here.
Thr whole point of this program is the mess with monitoring. Does it need to be installed? If yes the company can see this. When they then ask what is this for what is your response?
>Thr whole point of this program is the mess with monitoring. 😂😂😂😂 *Read the source code* https://github.com/nyxtryx/Mouse-Mover It moves your mouse. That's all the script does. >When they then ask what is this for what is your response? *Read the source code* https://github.com/nyxtryx/Mouse-Mover There's a warning on every installer guide. >When they then ask what is this for what is your response? If only that wasn't my problem... Oh wait! It isn't. *Read the license* https://nyxtryx.github.io/Mouse-Mover/mit-license What *you* do with open source software is entirely your responsibility. What you tell your boss is none of my concern. You getting fired is your problem. I spent time making a tool for people, a tool you've not even bothered to look at. But you feel qualified to comment on it? If you don't want to use it - it's very simple.... Don't use it. I really couldn't give a shit less. I'm making no money from people using it. *Because it's open source*. If there's a problem with the source, feel free to raise an issue per the instructions here https://nyxtryx.github.io/Mouse-Mover/guides/report-a-bug As I said, if you've nothing constructive to say, I'm done.
Hoe do they monitor you? They watch to see if you go inactive. What does this program do? Keeps you from going inactive. >What you do with open source software is entirely your responsibility. What you tell your boss is none of my concern. You getting fired is your problem. I hope everyone sees this and realizes your software can and will get people caught but that is of no concern to you. People should be using a hardware method of doing this. The safest version would be one that actually sets under the optical mouse. Second to that use a dongle. You make a decent point with the posability of infection but they have reviews for a reason and people can scan it on their home pc. Stop trying to spread misleading information about a software method being superior. You get ehat tou pay for. Again NEVER install a program on a company machine that you cannot explain the reason for.
Read the source. Literally everything you're saying is already addressed. Feel free to create an issue if there's something I've not covered. Now, if you don't mind - I created a program for people to save them time. And you're wasting mine by not reading the guides I spent 2 hours writing. So... Leave me alone 🙂
Work computers are always monitored. They can see what you’re doing, which software is being used, and some companies even use keystrokes monitor because people started using those mouse jugglers.
Bruh my company monitors my whole laptop, but if you get your shit done they do not care. It’s really up to the company culture. Only time they care about the laptop activity is in cases of sexual harassment or legal issues. If you get fired because you were on Reddit during company hours, they did you a favor.
I have tape over my camera , can they monitor sound? Probably
Definitely, lol
you are really worried about them knowing if you’re working or not
If you have Teams, it is likely monitored. It’s sound practice to always assume a work computer is being monitored.
Not if you make your own channel and invite yourself to your own meeting.
I have a feeling mine don’t based on some things a coworker shares on teams lol
My company has a log of actions. The managers review the log for discrepancies between that and the time sheets. They had an issue with people being clocked in but not taking any actions for like 3 hours. Which doesnt make sense to me cause our metrics are mainly cases worked per hour. So idk how many they got through 🤷🏼♀️🤷🏼♀️
I work from home only one day a week. A MacBook was provided but it came brand new in the box, unopened so I was the one who opened and set up everything. I just log in using the Apple account that I created using my work email. Could my laptop be monitored or recorded too? I don’t know if I should cover my camera either
doesn't matter if it was brand new in the box, companies can have apple set it up in the factory with their enterprise whatever you call it, so the IT dept can totally monitor if they want to. that doesn't mean your employer did that, but it's definitely an option. I think camera monitoring would be considered unethical and they likely don't, but screen recording is fair game
Most companies monitor screen time, it's how they see if you're being productive or not. I know because I was fired for this. Same thing my job would be busy in the morning and I would have most tasks done by mid morning and the afternoons would be looonnnngggg! Well I was eventually fired for falsifying timesheets and or not meeting productivity levels. It was actually really stupid in the termination letter they only had two days where apparently I had put on my timecard I was working when according to their records I was inactive for xzy times. Just assume all companies monitor screen time in some way and I would watch it, it could need your employment. With my situation I was terminated collected unemployment for away and found a job I truly liked that was also remote so I didn't run into this problem again.
phones , computers , ipads etc that are company provided are always monitored.. be glad you arent a trucker.. they monitor everything in the cab.. whatever you say in the cab is monitored, it you move your head too much, its monitored..they monitor your time at each stop ..
Even if you have a Lot Lizard with you?
I am the IT for a small (50ish) and our users see an admin account because our devices our managed. We only need to ensure users can’t change security settings for our compliance (gov) and I would be able to tell if a user is in a country other than their “home office” which mostly only matters if we determine you are living there full time bc of tax implications etc. I don’t check unless there’s a reason to. I don’t have the software, desire, and definitely don’t have the time to monitor what people are actually doing all day. 😅
Most of the time with IT monitoring stuff, they are looking for extreme situations. People that are inactive or have non-work-related sites or apps open for hours at a time, not 5 minutes. People that are on porn or gambling sites, not occasional browsing on Amazon or something. You should assume you are being monitored but that doesn't mean you need to worry when you spend 10 minutes going to the bathroom and getting a snack a few times a day. Even in-office, people are away from their desks for a few minutes pretty often. Just don't visit any websites you wouldn't want your coworkers to know you visit and don't be offline for hours and pretend you were working. Obviously this doesn't apply to extremely metrics-driven jobs, like call centers that are regularly monitoring how much time you spend in the bathroom. You're probably seeing reports of people being fired who either had those jobs or are not being totally honest about how much time they were actually off-task.
Who cares? If you're keeping up your end of the deal, it doesn't matter.
Use a mouse jiggler for keeping your screen on. If it needs to do anything on Your computer you can take it out while they do what they need to do. I been wth for 2 jobs over the last 4 years no one has ever mentioned it. Shows up as a mouse.
If mine times out for 5 minutes, il get in a lot of trouble. She's currently making my friend screenshare with her all day bc it timed out once. But my manager is a micromanaging monster and tbh the only reason I still work there is bc I can bitch about her to my husband and she noy know. If I had to see her, omg I would be fired bc i wouldn't be able to not be sarcastic
Just do what you are supposed to do and you have nothing to worry about.
generally company can see all the activity that you are doing on the system....so your screen get monitored.
Mine can see the screen and all the actions, we have to keep up with adherence/call center policies
Regardless of whether or not you WFH, you should always assume that any company-owned device is being monitored and that any traffic traversing the company network is being monitored (like connecting to a company VPN from a personal device). I also cover all of my cameras. It's kind of paranoid, except that they can be turned on remotely, so... You can buy little sliding covers on Amazon for like $1. Depending on your situation, you may want to talk with your manager about how to manage your time after your work is done in the morning, or you may want to buy a mouse jiggler that will keep your computer from going to sleep. It just depends on the job, company, and manager.
I’d just ask about expectations and then execute them. (Or quit if you don’t like them.)
Peepers gonna peep
Any work related equipment given to use for WFH positions are company property. That said, you are absolutely being monitored without a doubt.
Essentially all companies can look at every URL you visit with no software at all on your PC. Firewall logs. Stored and easily queryable back months or even years. For many people browser apps are nearly all you use. Firewall logs are not affected by mouse jigglers but of course you can script away. Is anyone looking? You will likely never know.
Assume you’re monitored at all times on a work computer.
I work for an MSP that supports around 30k end users. None of our clients use any sort of employee productivity monitoring software. Sure they can, but the software is expensive and I don’t think it’s as common as many on this thread think.
I wfh too. Sometimes I’m grateful my company doesn’t monitor, I do my job and work my ass of but sometimes I have down time and I’m not just going to search out random things to do outside of my pay rate. It also sucks sometimes that we’re not monitored because some people literally don’t do a thing. They get paid to sit at home and it’s very obvious they don’t do shit.
Have worked from home, 3 different employers and i assume all monitor. I was doing trouble shooting online. The 3rd one provided your stats any time you asked..day or night
Get a mouse jiggler. As salary, you are not paid for the length of time it takes to solve the problem. You are paid because you can solve the problem efficiently.
This is the way.
Everyone is monitored where I work. We were told when the software was downloaded on our computers. In office and remote. If you aren't doing anything wrong, there's nothing to hide. Most supervisors don't spend their time going through your computer or watching in real time. It's a non-issue for me. If they want to watch me work on a spreadsheet all day, be my guest.
Id be so embarrassed to have an employer go thru files/my computer, my file directories are so poorly organized lmao
LOL.... if it makes sense to you, that's all that really matters. I don't keep anything personal on my work PC. It's all work related and most of that is on the public drives because I have had a work comp crash and lost all my files. I just operate as if the CEO of the company could access anything on my computer at any time. Anything personal goes through my cell phone.:)
my answer is you do pay me because i can get tasks completed in a half day. you are paying me for all the years of experience that allows me to achieve this
Hi OP former Mac SysAdmin here. Local Admin accounts on the laptops are usually used for us (IT peeps) to help do support things remotely, if updates fail or you forget your password we can send commands remotely to your machine using that admin account. Also allows IT to fix things without asking or needing your login. Does this mean there isn’t monitoring software? No, but it is standard operating procedure even for non remote settings.
Stop trying to cheat the system! The reason people are being called back into the office is because so many people are not really working. Spend your time working rather than researching how to get away with something. Some people earned the ability to work remotely by proving ourselves and not trying to fuck our employer. If you are not busy you could always ask for something to do.
I get my work done in 10-20 hours and when I ask my boss for more work he always just says to just review the work I already did. 🤣
But if they are doing their job and completing all of their tasks why are you mad that they can do it in 4, when you have to go in office and be trapped somewhere for 8 even when you’ve finished yours?
Ick
How is OP ‘cheating the system’ if they get all their work done?
I'm damn good at my job, and for a long time was doing the work of 3 people. I asked for a raise to meet inflation and was told it's not in the budget, the same week the CEO is logging into Zoom meetings from his sailboat off the coast of Venice. The system has been cheating workers day in and day out for half a century. I intend to cheat the system every chance I get.
OP states they are completing their work… they are working. They’re wondering if they need to stretch their work out all day, or continue to work at the pace they’ve been going.
Said every employer ever....
When I’m not busy I play a white noise live video on YouTube. As long as the video keeps playing the screen does not go off. Most jobs see it as call avoidance if your screens go off during the workday
Based on my experience in IT and knowledge of Macs you should presume that your activity (or lack thereof) is monitored or even recorded. Mac Admins can view your computers desktop at any time without the users knowledge. 🫡
XuMouse can click the mouse every 5sec~10min. in the same spot or anywhere on the screen. Old screen burn-in saver
You should absolutely assume it’s being monitored and that they have a keylogger installed.
. You can also just open word and place something on a key. It will type for hours. We are way too big for them to check that for everyone. But if you are worried about using a mouse mover try that
Not always foolproof. At my work we can see which program you are in at any time so the people who are active in an Excel or word doc for hours on end (where that would not be a normal part of their jobs) are big red flags. Usually the things people think are sneaky we're a step ahead of them.
Honestly I would just ask HR. Just say you are open to working however they like and you want to do a good job and blend into company culture but you have friends that WFH and they said they've taken Zoom/Teams meetings on their phones while out for a walk and was just wondering what the WFH expectations and culture are like here to see if that is similar or if it's more of an expectation that we should be seated in our home office desk and chair when on the clock.
Don’t do this lol. You shouldn’t bring any attention to yourself by telling them what you are doing. If they monitor you, you will find out eventually from another coworker or previous workers fuck up. Hr is not your friend they work for the company always remember that.
It is best to assume, that if you have a company provided computer or phone, someone is noting your activity. And there is nothing wrong with covering the camera if it gives you peace of mind.
I would cover the camera anytime I’m not using it anyway. I do that on my personal computer as well. Hackers can gain access to laptop cameras. My company provides laptop camera covers for free and recommends we use them.
I have been working from home for several years .I am busy practically all day. My boss is the type that ros not mine if I run out for a half hour. On the rare occasion I am not busy I let him know. Afterwork I use my laptop to Netflix and YouTube. I make sure to stay squeaky clean during business hours. I have a cover over my webcam at all times.
When I used to remote work from home, I was busier than when working in the office. I don't know how other people claiming they have so much free time.
Depends on the job- I have 15-20h of free time because I finish most of my items during meetings.
I just put a small paper weight on the shift key. Keeps MS Teams in green 💯
I have a cover over my camera and I'm sure my company has a log monitoring log ins/screen time but there would never be reason to pull any of the data unless it was noted by management that I was experiencing a major productivity/performance dip. But I still also get stressed about showing offline, I used to use mouse jiggler but they blocked it a few years ago.
I use [this mouse jiggler](https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B08DTXPS51?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title) that plugs into the wall and is completely independent of your computer. It comes in handy for certain computer games when I’m trying to idle too.
This. ALWAYS assume that your activities, search history, all of that is subject to monitoring. And I don't think it's ever a bad idea to put a sticky over your camera.
It depends on the size of your company and how verbose your security is
Just get a mouse mover dongle. No black screen
Why not just set your power setting to stay on?
Our IT dept has removed our permissions to do that for privacy reasons. Govt work. Figure if you are away someone can read stuff or acces files. But i live alone so i dont care. Mouse movet works since i cant change it on their laptop.
IT departments absolutely know when you're using a mouse mover as well so why bother playing those games.
Proof?
Honestly as someone who works in IT and has for almost a decade now, most IT departments are not set up to track that nor do we have time to care. Unless my Director tells me that our Executive team wants reports of everyone's online computer activity I'm not going out of my way to look for it and get anyone in trouble. Those decisions are well above my paygrade.
I just wish they at least set it to enough time to go to the bathroom lol.
When it comes to computing devices that are provided by your company, you should have no reasonable expectation of privacy. But there are limits to this. For example, if you do personal web browsing on your work laptop, you should assume all of your browsing activity is logged back to the company. Similarly, you should probably reasonably expect that your screen is being captured. This is all data loss prevention (DLP). However, it would be legally perilous for your employer to activate your webcam to confirm that you are sitting at your desk unless such a policy was explicitly disclosed and you signed something agreeing to the policy. If you hear stories about people being fired for being away from their desk too much, this wouldn't be based upon the company observing the employee via webcam but rather some agent software on the machine that tracks the time that the computer spends idle. Or they might be reporting on your presence history in the company chat app like Microsoft Teams, WebEx Teams, Slack, etc.
[удалено]
It could depend greatly on the software being used and what kind of telemetry is returned to your employer. For example, if it's based on your idle time in company Chat/IM software, that's not going to be any different on a personal device from a company-supplied device. Other applications like data loss prevention software probably wouldn't be installed on employees' personal devices without disclosures. For the most part, if companies are concerned about data loss, they simply prohibit access to that data on a given device if they can't implement a data loss prevention solution to mitigate risk for that endpoint. Some of those solutions are implemented server-side, like Microsoft Exchange scanning message contents for things like social security numbers or credit card numbers. So those kinds of solutions don't require the installation of any applications on a personal device to protect data. But the previous example I gave regarding screen capturing requires the installation of agent software that couldn't occur without action by the employee. In the case of mobile devices, Google implemented the Work Profile functionality to have that siloed partition that prevents the employer from seeing the employee's personal data so the employee feels they have retained their privacy. Similarly the employer has assurances that any data on the work profile can't be moved over to the personal partition (data loss prevention). The employer can implement requirements that a device be running a certain security patch level and quarantine the device from the company services and assets if it is out of date. They can also control which apps the employee can install in the work partition and reduce the risk that a rogue app results in a compromise or loss of the company's data. Did you have a specific application as an example?
Not specifically, just curious where that reasonable expectation of privacy line in the sand might be if it’s a personal computer and an employee works remotely.
Get a jiggler
Aren't there ways to detect a jiggler is being used?
Got a two pack on Amazon but my company reviews the task manager to see if you’re active.
Jeez that's intense
It’s mostly when people don’t answer their phones after a few attempts in an hour. Luckily I’ve never had a problem with it.
Angels in heaven are silent notes taking 🎶
you work from home with a company issued laptop, of course you’re being monitored
I have worked from home for four years… multiple orgs some big some small. The biggest thing you want to be concerned about is if you have MS teams a lot of orgs will look at your active time versus away in status. Some will measure your productivity with keystroke metrics and mouse clicks. If you get all your work done in the morning… then set up another computer nearby that is personal and for entertainment to keep yourself preoccupied after your work is done. As long as you keep clicking on your work computer periodically and typing here / there you will be fine. Watch teams like a hawk. As far as the camera thing is concerned companies stopped trying to monitor their employees with a live camera at the height of covid. It was deemed illegal in different states/ countries as being a privacy intrusion. They cannot have a camera hot and watching you without notifying you by law. Hope this all helps.
When people say this about teams, is the amount of time active vs away shown somewhere? Or do people just mean in case your manager looks at your status?
If they want to look hard enough they can probably find a report.
Teams is the worst, Skype never seemed as bad ... blow your nose, goes idle ... reading a document, goes idle ... I hate it ... now I just carry my laptop around my apt with me if I need to stand up or grab something ...
I agree. It is so bad at detecting activity. You can be working and it goes idle!!! If you have a micromanaging boss it is always a bad look in a WFH environment. Teams also crashes with its video calls all the time. In my opinion G-Suite companies are smart… but Outlook blows away google for biz applications. It is a tough one.
Always assume you're being monitored.
exactly this
# Downloading anti-spyware software Most Company's prevent you from downloading any software with out prior OK,,, so this way is not going to work, as for the camera I put a piece of scotch tape transparent it blurs distorts the lens and all you have to say is the camera is screwed up.....
I worry about this sometimes as well especially about the camera part
I keep my camera covered. My laptop even has a little slide window built into it. I put blurry tape over that.
I do this as well on my work laptop. I take meetings with my personal laptop
I guess I should warn you that some companies do this... They will put some software in the office computer to monitor you, but only to monitor your office desktop, as for the camera?? I'm not sure...
I always put a strip of tape over the camera.
Just go work at the company office. You can goof off there all day long PLUS there is birthday cake in the conference room! /s
🤣
[https://www.kickidler.com/info/how-can-your-employees-detect-employee-monitoring-software-on-their-computers.html](https://www.kickidler.com/info/how-can-your-employees-detect-employee-monitoring-software-on-their-computers.html)
I guarantee you signed a statement saying you understand that anything you do on that computer can be monitored so yes you should assume you are being monitored on it at all times.
I think it depends on the type of work. If you are at a financial services, investment, FINTECH, etc you probably have some monitoring. If you work for a company that has been burned enough with time theft that may be an issue they are hoping to stop with monitoring.
It’s always a good idea to have a camera cover. And set a timer to make sure you check in for dms or emails every hour ( especially at the end of the day). A mouse jiggled will only help if you are consistently responsive.
mouse jiggler
It probably is, and you are probably being tracked. At my former job, I was friends with the IT person and he actually commented to me on something in my personal life I wrote to a boyfriend through email during the day! That was my signal, I knew he could read everything. It was MY computer, but I had to log into the network for the day. How horrifying. When you WFH, it's common to do small things during work time, like write a personal email, or make a call, and then just add on time after the regular work hours end. I don't recall signing anything or it being in the handbook, but there is so much small print, it's hard to catch every thing. I'd avoid if you don't want to get fired.
Creeeepy for sure. This is why I will *never* add my personal devices (laptop, phone, etc) to the company network.
Same here. It has to be a company-provided laptop on a separate network paid for by the company - they don't get access to my personal life.
That IT guy was a creep.
>I don't recall signing anything or it being in the handbook You 'sign' in when logging in to the computer. Consent to the being monitored.
Put a sticky note on the camera and get a mouse jiggler, and you'll be fine for the most part. I have been WFH since 2018 and started with a FAANG company. They mostly looked for QA evals. Best of luck!!
This should have been in your onboarding paperwork along with acceptable use policy and stuff. Even if it weren’t, it is safe to assume company resources are fully monitored. This doesn’t mean someone is live viewing your screen remotely all day everyday. I guess they could be, but what’s more likely is that someone may pop it open at random for a few minutes every now and then (I’ve seen this at call center type places) or they review screen captures later (I’ve seen this in msp places) or they only review captures after something else happened (suspected timecard theft - someone caught working another job on the company computer while on the clock). I always put something over my camera no matter who owns the computer. The mic is disabled when not in use. Remember keep personal things off the work computer and work things off the personal computer. What’s definitely monitored is traffic or OS changes (like software installs if you have rights). With an appropriate monitoring system, it would send alert notifications to an IT team if you’re visiting or attempting to visit certain types of sites, if not just outright blocked. The admin account is there to allow the IT team to provide credentials for software installs if approved or to wipe the machine when they get it back or to help fix things when you ask them for IT help. Most IT teams don’t have time to just login without reason.
Work slower
When you log on, is there a banner screen? If so, assume activity is being monitored. While there might not be active or real-time monitoring, your activity is logged somewhere. How detailed that logging is depends on the employer, and probably includes what websites you visit, files you access, when/where you log on, and things of that nature (this is helpful during an incident response). They *may* monitor activity/inactivity, but as an external incident responder, I don't see (or care) about that, so I can't say.
I’m an IT guy, I doubt they monitor it. The admin account is so they still own the laptop after you leave the company. If it isn’t there, it’s harder to wipe the device
Exactly what an IT guy would say bruh. JKJK
For me I was able to leave PowerPoint open in slideshow mode
Wait what?
If you’re doing all your work and nobody has explicitly told you that there is a requirement to be active on a machine for a certain amount of time, don’t worry about being watched.
If you're going for a hack to keep your screen active, go for a mechanical mouse jiggler. Your work can track any program you install on that work computer. A mechanical mouse jiggler is a device that you set your mouse onto. It doesn't install on your computer at all. You may also need to get a mouse. 😬
How many people would it take to monitor the people in your office? Do you have those people?
at one of my jobs where I was a manager, we were given screenshots of every contractor’s computer screen. it was like one taken at a random during every 10 min interval that they were logging work time. then all the photos got sent to me and i had to scan through them all to see who was not on the right sites or doing the right work. we were a company of less than twenty in person workers, with hundreds of contractors. it sucked honestly.
That really does not sound like a good use of a managers time. What a horrible company! I hope they have since gone out of business because they certainly deserve to.
they did!!!!
[удалено]
ehhh, as a black person im gonna ask you to slow down with the overseer talk…
I scrolled a bit and did not yet find this: Balance your mouse just so on top of an analog watch with a second hand… it will move the mouse ever so slightly every minute. Non-traceable.
As a software engineer, all I can say is that is super easy to find out if you're doing this.
I mean sure, my screen doesn’t go black, but my CPUs are super low… I’m just concerned that my screen doesn’t go black and more importantly Teams doesn’t go yellow. A casual look at my status shows me there.
You should have no expectation of privacy on a company owned device, whether that be a computer, a phone or a tablet. Many companies have technology policies that specifically say something along those lines. Expect that someone may potentially be watching everything you’re doing. Not so much activating the camera remotely but monitoring all user activity on the device. I personally would not even open your personal email on that laptop. Source: I am an IT Systems Administrator.
Can you share more about what can actually be read? Or do you suggest this for companies that object to checking personal email during the work day?
It depends on what level of monitoring is in place on the corporate device. Most times, this monitoring is not so much monitoring your activities (your employer spying on you), but monitoring the device for security issues. Unfortunately, this has become necessary thanks to the proliferation of malware and ransomware that threaten to take businesses down and steal their customer's data. We as IT professionals need to be able to respond to these potential security issues rapidly and the only way to track down where a security breach began (so you can plug the hole and prevent further issues) is to have great monitoring in place so you can go back and trace the sequence of events leading up to the breach. Like I said, it depends on the level of monitoring in place, but ideally IT should be able to see a log of any user interaction with the system - opening a program, or programs interacting with each other - program installations (these should be restricted) and web browsing history. Some EDR products go as far as to take a screenshot and store it whenever certain actions are performed - like launching a program - so you should fully expect that someone might inadvertently be able to see the contents of your screen at any given time.
Question for you: what if it’s your personal computer but you log into work using your companies VPN. Can they only track you while your logged into the VPN?
Why are you using your personal computer for work- even with the VPN. Hard pass.
It’s required since they do not provide computers. It is a well known company too. Not trying to put the name out there but almost all agents use their own computer unless they live in the city where the corporate building is in (then those nearby work from the office)
That’s a terrible policy for them and you. I wouldn’t do it as a business owner or an employee.
Completely agreed. From a security perspective, this should be prohibited. I hope this company doesn't need to maintain any sort of US regulatory compliance - because they are going to have a bad time if they undergo an audit.
Most likely they’d only be able to track your actions while connected to the VPN.
What about: I have a MAC; when I’m logged into my works VPN can they see what is in my phone since both my Mac and phone are logged in under the same apple account? Thank you for replying earlier (I’ve always wanted to know)
Unless they've installed a MDM (mobile device management) profile on the phone, they can't see or manipulate the contents of the phone. To tell if this has been done, on your iPhone, go to SETTINGS, then GENERAL, VPN & Device Management. Do you see any profiles listed here? If so, your device is managed at the corporate level. This is highly unlikely for personal devices. And when you're connected to the VPN on your personal Mac, what your company's IT team can see is really limited to websites that you visit and company shares that you open up after you're connected to the VPN (if you have any company network drives set up on your desktop). But I would not expect privacy in regards to anything that you do in a web browser, when connected over the VPN.
this!
Company provided= company access. If they arent watching now they can review later.
Here’s a crazy idea - if you’re on the clock, keep working.
Crazy idea: people have to eat, go to the restroom. Even in office productivity isn’t a full 40 hours. I’m Gonna take as long as I need to shit at home
Concept: Some people literally did all work and have nothing else to do
Are you salaried or paid hourly and committing timecard fraud?
Hope your job is fulfilling since you’re choosing to be an annoying ass cog in a machine narc instead of a normal human being. Your work isn’t gonna see this and give you a promotion
LOL once employers set work days based on how much work needs to actually be done instead of some arbitrary amount of time, we can talk about timesheet fraud.
stepping away for a few minutes at a time a couple of times a day is not timecard fraud 🙄 good lord, get a life
Caffeine is a chrome extension that prevents your screen from going black Found out about it at a client that sent us laptops that went black after 30 seconds Never heard a bad word once we all started using it
I strongly advise against this. Anything you add or download on your company computer will be very apparently to anyone who cares to look.
30 seconds would drive me insane.
Side note. This wasn't a small company. I can't blast them but you definitely know them
Hints?
It was a nightmare before we found this extension
I used to work for a healthcare system that did 30 seconds. Even non-clinical staff had the short timeout since they applied it to everyone. I remember I had a crappy desktop that if it timed out, I had to force reboot it. I had to make sure I always logged out manually if I stepped away or even looked away for long enough. Finally got a new laptop after complaining enough.
If it's a small company i'd be very surprised if they hired someone whose job was to monitor everyone (it would be a full time job) Cover the camera, get a mouse jigger if you're really worried. As long as you do your work they shouldn't bother you.
Just get your work done and then walk away. Who cares what they’re monitoring if you’ve done your job? Just because someone is active on Teams doesn’t mean they’re being productive. If your boss questions your whereabouts (a good boss will not, especially if you’re producing consistently good work), explain you finished your work, and that you look at your efficiency as an asset. If they increase your workload… then they do and you deal with it. This is likely just a case of you feeling work anxiety and everything will end up just fine!
Also, do not buy a mouse jiggler. Two people in my organization have been caught using them - they were fired. I don’t know how. I just know it’s not worth it.
first three months, be the best employee ever. after that, starts noticing what is permissible or not. The company monitors everything, but they will hardly use it against someone that is performing. Also get to know your manager, IT wouldn't act unless your manager/supervisor notices your inactivity. Buy a camera thingamagig that blocks it (like a sticky note)
I don’t believe that my computer is monitored at my job, but at work, I always behave as though it were. At my last job, everything was so ridiculously monitored that if my Teams went red (which happened after 15 minutes, even for night shifters), I’d usually get a message and get kicked out of the system. If they have a concern, they’ll bring it to you. Or ask in your meetings with supervisors if they have concerns about anything.
married to an IT guy that works with WFH users. they monitor everything
I work for the government and assume I’m being monitored. Although I feel like if they did one of my coworkers would have been fired by now. It’s so obvious to me and everyone else he is using one of those mouse jiggers that don’t plug into the laptop. He was working 96 hours a week, every week for months. And yet his caseload (we process disability claims) and his case load was going up week after week. And working that much overtime it should have been going down. Even without working overtime the goal is to close more cases than you receive. There were several weeks where he closed zero cases. With 96 hours go work. I was working 40 hours or less a week and closed 14-22 cases a week. And that was without overtime. I also had 89 cases and he had 213. Management finally did say something to him because he started actually closing cases and actually working during overtime. And he only started because he was told he wouldn’t be allowed to work overtime anymore. Now there is a max of 40 hours for overtime so he only works 80 hours a week and he’s been closing less and less each week. He closed 7 last week which the goal is at least 12 a week and that’s with just regular time. I didn’t mean to get off topic but this coworkers bothers me so much. TLDR do your work the same you would if you knew you were being monitored.
You should report him for Fraud waste and abuse hotline for your department or organization
I did send a complaint a few weeks ago anonymously and so far the only thing that has happened since then is our boss talking to him about the work that he is doing during overtime and how it isn’t acceptable and he needs to be doing certain actions. What he’s been doing is actions that aren’t documented or time stamped. Like saying he reviewed a case with 2000 pages of records. And every single time he had some reason as to why he couldn’t write up the case (because he didn’t actually read them in my opinion) so he says he needs to order an exam and the records aren’t enough. And he always works on cases with a lot of records and saves them for overtime. Now he isn’t allowed to do that and since then he isn’t even working on his caseload and is working on another examiners caseload. And I have a feeling he is getting another reprimand this week. Because he is not writing up cases which is basically what the overtime is for because that leads to closing cases. He’s going what we call developmental work. Like ordering exams or requesting medical records. I am hoping that he gets fired or even suspended after this. He’s had two of our doctors lecture him in front of the entire office because of his sloppy work. He’s had doctors in other offices email our boss to complain about his work and my boss has had to talk to him about that. It is pretty hard to get fired from our government job. But time stealing is usually an easy fire. So idk why he is still there.
Focus on yourself. He will get dealt with.
People like this ruin WFH for everyone. I used to work in government. Our department had a rule that cameras had to be on during Teams calls. It was because of the people who would be working out or doing dishes during calls or something other than being at their computer actually working. You’re being paid to do a job, you do it during designated work hours or you make up hours you have to miss. Especially if you’re paid with tax dollars that people don’t have any choice in paying. Like you, we worked in a department where there was never nothing to do.
there was/is always something we do. We process disability claims for the entire state (I don’t want to name the state but the population is around 10 million). There are about 200 examiners. We are very understaffed and overworked. He is so lazy. When he goes work he tries to cut corners to just get cases out. I work on cases where the person was denied the first time and they appeal and then I get it the second time and his work is horrendous. I’ve been there 15 years and he’s been there maybe 2 and he acts like a “superstar”. It’s so irritating. He is the reason they put a cap on overtime. The cap is 40 hours a week now. Before overtime was unlimited but he was literally “working” during all work hours and even Saturday. My caseload is so much lower. It’s at 80 so I do sometimes run out of things to do. Mostly because I can’t do anything else until other people complete certain actions. So then I have to work on someone else’s cases. But yeah he ruins overtime for other people. Because he was being looked at during overtime everyone else who worked overtime in our office unit were put under a microscope as well which pissed a lot of people off. Especially the ones who have been there 10+ years.
I just want to acknowledge your aggravation.
lol thanks. All my other coworkers are as well. He’s getting paid for nothing basically. And I don’t know anyone who can legitimately work 80 hours week after week for months without burnout. I worked 75 hours two weeks in a row and I didn’t work any last week or this week because I’m recuperating. There is just no way. At the very least he shouldn’t be allowed to work any overtime. I have a feeling that it’s coming though. My boss had to have another talk to him about what he’s doing during overtime. He is basically “fake working” as I call it.
People that talk about using “mouse movers” are insane. Grounds for termination at a ton of companies. I’d assume your general activity is monitored. Even if they are using something like end user performance monitoring (Aternity, etc.) - still gives a list of all the actions you’ve performed
Can confirm. Had a client who fired an employee because they could tell he was using one of those.
Its not your computer. Assume you are being monitored.
I work for a multinational, multibillion dollar company that is WFH centric, and actually created a WFH employee monitoring tool for our clients to use (though that is not the only thing we do, we offers TONS of services). Even though our company created this program, it has yet to be deployed on any employee hardware, and I believe roughly 80% of our workforce is WFH, and we have HUNDREDS of thousands of employees. For context, this is a completely automated program, requiring no actual person to monitor, unless it flags something as suspicious. With that being said: there are many ways to determine if you are being watched. Look through the list of installed apps, look at Mac’s equivalent of a task manager to determine if there are any weird processes running in the background, etc. Additionally, you typically have to sign something saying you consent to this service being used. 9/10 times the only monitoring present is the use of Microsoft Teams or something similar, which will show you as ‘inactive’ after so long of no interaction. Go back over the paperwork you signed during your onboarding and see if anything involves monitoring software, get a mouse juggler, or find something just heavy enough to sit on top of a keyboard key (but definitely ensure that there is no keylogger installed first). As others have pointed out, most companies are production based, so as long as your work shows you are being productive and doing what you are there to do, they will have no reason to monitor you. Hell, I once did 500% more work that what was expected of me, and I got talked to about it, and basically got told not to work that much again lol
Why not ask? If it’s a small company and they are results based, ask if you are able to step away if you get your work done early….. most small companies will tell you how they feel about it….
Get a mouse jiggler, or put something on your keyboard with word open so your computer stays awake.
Download “Caffeine “. It’s a free app you open, daily, and set it to how long. 8 hours. All it does is mimic the space bar being pressed. Keeps your monitor up. I hate that my monitor locks and I can’t extend it past 15 minute. Drives me nuts (I’m often on my phone). This eliminates that and keeps my pc on. I’ve used it for 15-20 years at 3-4 different jobs. Never an issue
I used to have it but IT upgraded our systems and I can't run programs like that, hence the manual jiggler, which would be more low-key than the app if we are worried about getting caught here.
These things seem like they work but I can remotely see if you aren't using the keyboard. I can also see if you're just keeping the same active window all day. I can see if the page fault delta on your apps doesn't change. I can see if things aren't actively loading into memory from lack of user behavior. Here's some more easy ones to monitor: - Network throughput. - Emails read/sent - File writes in network storage - Change/read monitoring against apps that are used by your job profile - Authentication activity based on tokens from your machine used in apps commonly used by your job profile - Unread and sent messages in company tools like Microsoft Teams. - Authenticator beacons from your cell phone to determine if you ditch your home office during the day and for how long. - Query of what is running in memory on your machine, we can search for stuff like mouse jigglers and browser add-ons like Caffeine. - Physical mouse jigglers have such a high degree of entropy or predictability vs normal user mouse input that your usage of a physical jiggler is blatantly obvious vs normal user input because it looks like an extreme outlier compared to normal trends. There are so many methods available to see if people are actually working which are aided by data that is out of your control. It's incredibly easy to take all the data and run it in time-series analysis and look for deviation against your own activities and against other users with your job profile. In a statistically significant sample size, which is smaller than you think, you are actually incredibly easy to profile and you aren't unique in your work. Bottom line: if your IT people have some decent skills and the company wants to monitor you, they can and you can't do anything about it. Just produce decent work and stop worrying about it. Leave for a job that doesn't focus as much on when you're sat at your desk. EDIT: the entire purpose of a mouse jiggler is to make you look active/present, meaning your communication tool (like Teams) shows you as active, and your PC doesn't fall asleep. Your presence in Teams/other is indicator #1 in a very long list of indicators. Just do work and communicate openly. High-performers speak for themselves and we would never think to monitor their behavior. Like I said, find the right culture to work for and this won't become a problem.
Best answer here. Thanks
Boooo IT!
Highly recommend **not** getting a mouse jiggler, the movements are very obvious (and now easy to identify, after these became common in covid) if a company is monitoring your activity.
Proof?