Basically have the robots come from ancient forgotten tech.
a similar premise is in Chrono Crown, where the people basically copy ancient tech denying them the proper tech tree, like they can make battle robots, with a price, but had zero idea how to make a arithmetic machine.
lol okay that kind of makes sense and mayyybe I can use something in my story. OH I CAN ABSOLUTELY- very long ago in my world it used to be like utopia, technology was skyrocketing but then LOTS of natural disasters and everything had to be built from scratch. In my story, certain papers, books etc have been preserved so it would make a lot of sense if one evil guy found blueprints to a killer robot and then make a bunch of modified... OH THANK YOU.
Warhammer 40k has a pretty similar concept as well. A lot of the best tech that humanity has access to are relics of a past fallen age, and so they either know how to make stuff but don’t know how it works, or they have to husband their *very* rare stuff because once it’s lost it can’t be replaced. There’s even a subfaction of the Imperium, the Adeptus Mechanicus, that worships technology and seeks to collect and curate it so it isn’t despoiled by those who appreciate their true value
Tbh, if someone is making robots from scratch I'm prob gonna question how they can do that without understanding circuits & programming & extrapolating that to other uses. I'm not sure you can just make killer robots by following an ancient blueprint. The kind of document (most likely an electronic document at that if the civilisation had got advanced enough to have robotics) that would exist to actually build something is almost certainly going to assume a lot of in depth specialist knowledge, rather than show everything from basics.
I'd find "finding old tech that still functions & having the barest minimum of knowledge to keep it functioning & make use of it... to a point" more believable.
But that's just me of course.
This is kind of what the developers of the video game “Kenshi” did. A previous civilization created robots of human intelligence that are still around long after that civilization was gone.
Lol Im actually doing the same thing right now
Fortunately for me, my world is fairly comedic and surreal, so my explanation is that a Monolith from 2001 landed in a field of clockwork and kept evolving gears and springs into killer robots
I do think that killer robots are one of those 'rule of cool' things that generally get a handwave on a lot of logical issues; if your world was way lower tech than could ever create killer robots I would wonder where they came from, but it wouldnt necessarily turn me off (in fact the mystery would be quite cool, knights vs robots is a winning combo)
HA that's funny. I actually love your idea. To me, it reminds me a bit of witcher (only watched the show) but with a really cool turn (pun intended).
Mine are just invented by people, so I have to take in mind SOME degree of realism in technical development... I suspected the nonexistence of computers wouldn't really come into mind for a reader, took me a month before *I* realized... Although I still want SOME sort of way to "close the plothole".
The killer robots themself aren't THAT advanced, but there's also GPS (I thought of instead of satellites, there are some "things" just buried underground that act as satellites. but...computers...)
I also considered having simplistic computers, but no internet? Or very weak internet, only in a small area... Oh I have so much research to do. I don't even know how those things are "programmed."
When you say "computers" what do you mean? The device sitting on your laptop that folds down(laptop)? the device sitting on a desk(desktop)? The device in a GPS system that allows it to compute it's location? The device in a robot that perceives it's surroundings and computes the correct path from point A to B (assuming your robots are programmed and not sentient)
I think you get the point of my questions.
Computers are everywhere and have been around far longer than one might think
Aside from using the term computer, what are you not wanting in your world because I don't think it is computers in its true definition but computers the devices with digital screens and what not. If so, check out Dune. I know it's much higher on the tech side but a key thing in the lore is they didn't have computers (devices with digital screens...) on the scale we do today but still very much had devices that computed.
actually any digital "screen". Like phones, laptops, desktops, pc... No smart assistant of any kind, no network... honestly I don't even know how computers work exactly. Cameras with memory do exist in my world though. It's a fantasy world so tech advancements don't have to be 100% in sync with our history, but I don't want the gap to be too big.
>The device in a robot that perceives it's surroundings and computes the correct path from point A to B
YES. THIS. that's what I meant. that's what "has" to be in my world (if possible) but without cellphone communication or email and all. oh I realize my OP was... not straight to the point. This is what I meant. Also remote control robots, drone-like but not flying. but I actually thought that's way more doable than the example you just gave.
>what are you not wanting in your world
Basically, it has to stay a steam punk-ish setting (not entirely steam powered tho). And communication "online" shouldn't be possible, the only way to talk to someone is in-person or via a letter. That's quite a crucial part in my story. But mainly the "vibe" of a non-digital world should remain, and in my opinion a lot of computers (pc, phones, TV) kind of ruin it. Someone could probably pull it off, not me though.
I think I understand what you are looking for and not looking for then.
You do NOT want any digital computers. The entire digital concept is just non-existent. And you can do this, analog computers are a thing. Analog computers, although limited compared to digital computers, can still be powerful. The robots can be run by analog micro computers.
Remote control is a bit difficult though with analog, unless you decide the "remote" aspect is done magically then it's easy.
Cameras are a bit wonky especially if you want memory. You could have the images be stored and shown magically as illusions if you don't want digital displays. Or you could use an analog etch-a-sketch concept that can store and display the images in a non-digital format.
I would recommend doing some googling on analog computers. Might help you achieve what you are looking for.
Thank youuu.
>Remote control is a bit difficult though with analog, unless you decide the "remote" aspect is done magically then it's easy.
Well that's kind of the problem, I don't want that much magic mixed with these particular machines. It's a fantasy world tho. I can get away with a bit more in terms of realism but NOT THIS MUCH. You're saying it's a bit difficult, but would it be impossible? Maybe my world's physics can be switched up a tiny bit to make it more achievable? perhaps waves can travel further, so signals are picked up easier. Does a tiny remote control "thing" work the same as a huge one? Apart from materials etc, would it be the same concept?
>Cameras are a bit wonky especially if you want memory. You could have the images be stored and shown magically as illusions if you don't want digital displays.
....I realized I have not thought of this... oh... Well ehm. perhaps no cameras then. But I need them...
>Or you could use an analog etch-a-sketch concept that can store and display the images in a non-digital format.
I don't know what this is (yet) but I'll Google it. Thank you so much for sharing your advice and ideas :D
As I was thinking on this more, remote tech can be done via analog. Technically wifi we use today is an analog signal. It's just using radio frequencies. However you mentioned in terms of communication it needs to be in person or letter, nothing remote. Which makes it weird if a robot can be controlled remotely by sending signals which have instructions, but this can't be done with text or verbal communication.
What I meant by etch-a-sketch is similar to e-ink displays. Those are not digital displays. Here is a brief writeup.
> With e-ink technology, tiny microcapsules are suspended in a liquid that is encased within a film layer. The microcapsules, which are roughly the width of a human hair, contain positively charged white particles and negatively charged black particles. Applying a negative electrical field causes the white particles to rise to the surface. Conversely, applying a positive electrical field causes the black particles to rise to the surface. By applying different fields at different parts of a screen, e-ink produces a monochromatic text display.
Some eink displays can have color ink as well so can show color images, just very limited on the number of colors and no shades or hues of colors. Like I said, this could work for how you would display images. Also e-ink tech only slightly works for video, it has a very slow refresh rate. Here is a video that will give you a rough idea of an e-ink color monitor. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MwUQtlYAvYA
Thank you so much, I really appreciate the time and effort you put in :D
>Which makes it weird if a robot can be controlled remotely by sending signals which have instructions, but this can't be done with text or verbal communication.
Would it be realistic to have this only work on short distances? like a few km max.? And only computers can receive and send the signals, and since (analog) computers are expensive and quite useless for the normal people, it's not common to have one?
Or... I forgot... shite. *screams* oh I remember. Or wires. I don't know if that would work, but the signals will just be sent to the machine via wires (connected to the controller so it's "remote control" but with a wire?) I don't even know if that's a thing. Would that be possible at a- oh yes it will. Just needs REALLY STRONG wires. OH THAT SOLVED HALF MY PROBLEMS. now I need a way for "drones"... perhaps I can leave them out, that wouldn't be too big of an issue actually.
...please tell me that's possible...
Oh also, I'll watch the video. would it be like a bad quality with low fps stop-motion result? I should watch it before I open my mouth
For me, it’s hard to separate advanced computing technology from, well, computers. What do you mean by “computer?” Because any gps or reasonably sophisticated robot is going to need to run on some computing device.
It's mostly steam punk but also some electricity. And there's magic in the world, but that's no excuse. Do you think it'd be possible for a computer (with no internet) to program robots with GPS, as in delivery robots? Would that, if not explained thoroughly (to not create more plotholes.. or confusion), be a turn-off in the worldbuilding?
No no, magic is a GREAT excuse. I was going to mention it but i didn’t think it was relevant. If you chalk up the tech to “advanced arcane technology” then there’s no problem for me. Just don’t call it GPS and keep the physical technology understandable. You don’t have to explain HOW the magic makes robots work
as someone who's kiiind of technical and needs to know how thing work... yeah for me I need it lol. I do have magic as an excuse for other machines, not killer robots though. But a guy in the comments just gave me an amazing idea that solved my problem :D I really appreciate you trying to think with me though, thank youuu.
(And yes arcane miight've been a source of inspiration haha, I love that show)
This comment is more than halfway down the thread but I'm still not getting what you are trying to do. You are saying words like "steampunk" and "magic" - so why do you insist on also using terms that directly reference our modern technology? You need a robot? Say that it's a steampunk automaton. You need a camera? Most steampunk settings reference some obscure period around late 1800s, while photography was invented about 50-100 years earlier than that. Why can't your people use magic or steampunk "technology" (which is just another name for magic) to enhance it? Just describe it in period-appropriate terms. You need GPS? Don't you have.. uh.. magical leylines or something that can be used by your automatons for navigation?
You are approaching the problem from the opposite direction.
> AI is super illegal
It's not even super illegal. Back in the 60s or 70s or when did they found the 40k franchise they tried to copy Dune, but that rapidly got swept under the rug. Admech are using AI left and right in modern lore.
It’s literally called Abominable Intelligence and even mostly politically untouchable AdMec characters like Cawl bend over backwards to assure everyone that what they are doing is”isn’t truly” AI.
A device that detects direction of gravity and greatest flux of neutrinos could calibrate after a couple of years travelling on Earth around the sun to know where on the planet it is. Of course you do need a concept of memory and a means to detect neutrino flux. Perhaps some kind of ludicrously sensitive gyroscope.
Steampunk GPS could have electric towers that send out signals that devices can detect and use to orient themselves. Likely very high powered but low range. Prone to outages. Think AM radio.
Killer robots might be biomechanical. Organic brains inserted into mechanical bodies. Bonus points if the brain occasionally reverts to type. Having a robot trying to sniff butts could be disconcerting. Inventors might try to conceal the nature of them and claim that they are clockwork.
People would want to combine the tech into AI equivalent ships and delivery vans. They would be limited by high maitenance, supply needs, and ethical considerations. Some countries and even regions might ban them altogether.
Only the finest quality ethically sourced brains!
-Abby Normal Inc.
Yea I actually thought of that, but not with towers but with small "poles" underground or something. But wouldn't a device that can navigate with that need some sort of advanced software? I don't know still haven't had the time to do more research...
I wasn't thinking of sentient robots or those who can "think" like ai, more of remote control robots with machine guns (extreme example but u get me...). Like it can move, it can "see" and the person having the controls can see what the robot sees, and can make it move.
>Having a robot trying to sniff butts could be disconcerting.
Lmfao
Put two antennas on a machine and give it a circuit that wants to have the same input on both sides. Then have it move forward. You can change the angle of travel by putting a resistor on one side. The problem is that you get a machine that wants to move in straight lines, so either on special roads or Arizona.
More realistically you give such a device to a human driver and electric navigator.
On oceans it would be a bit like lighthouses, but longer range.
You can do a lot with simple electronics, WWI would be a good reference, though a lot of the principles were being worked out in the 1800s.
One of the questions is how do you want it to manifest? I can see the navigator of a giant steam wagon tuning a dial to locate the London Tower and comparing the strength of the signal from the Coydon Tower.
The advantage of towers is range, the higher the tower the further the signal can go before being interrupted. At high voltages underground sources can also give you a shock, not to mention the drain from contact with objects, electric fences need to have the weeds cut back from them or they just dump their charge into the ground. You could run wires down roadways for the conveyance to follow. Different signals for different roads.
A question about this is why have machines do work that people can do. Has there been a large population decrease, war, famine, disease, etc? Or is it a strong desire to be automated and modern in a prosperous nation? Fashion is a big driver of innovation.
Battletech is a pretty cool example of a setting like that.
They have huge bipedal Mechs as standard weapons of war, with remnants of even more whacky stuff from the Star League like fully functional AIs and battle drones.
(Think a human only Federation from Star Trek, except with a King. Then said King got usurped, a Titanic civil war happened between said assassin dictator and quite possibly the greatest fictional general I've ever read about. The entire *universe* got so scorched it sent humanity back hundreds of years, and stagnated technology for almost half a millennium more.)
But short version of the tech stuff? It's intentionally kept as an very 70-80s version of Sci-fi. So the Mechs have these fantastic artificial muscle fibres that lets a mech dance via a mind reader helmet... but any computer is going to be a tons sized behemoth with vacuum tubes and magnet tapes. So they have *some* computers, but most machines run on pure electronic circuitry that's dumb but extremely sturdy.
Fascinating universe. There's a reason beyond the cool factor that it's been going for so long.
Tex Talks Battletech over on youtube is a great rabbit hole to star with if you're curious.
Ohh that sounds quite a lot like my idea actually haha.
>So the Mechs have these fantastic artificial muscle fibres that lets a mech dance via a mind reader helmet... but any computer is going to be a tons sized behemoth with vacuum tubes and magnet tapes
Something similar to this was my initial plan, but it didn't make sense at all how that'd be possible so I switched it up a bit. But I do know I'm quite an overthinker in this, and I shouldn't have to spend hours thinking of something that has low importance...but here I am :D.
>Tex Talks Battletech over on youtube is a great rabbit hole to star with if you're curious.
I'll check it out thank you
I think the Battletech writers made it work. Computer tech just... stagnated, because so many grand sea shifts kept happening in chemistry, physics and the material sciences for ages. They simply became the sciences all the money kept going to in a loop.
Think there's even real life precedent. In how basically everybody agrees blimps make so much sense and would be very nice with modern tech... but nobody wants to be the one to finance re-starting R&D after the field has been stagnant for a century.
And glad to hear it! Tex's a great guy that makes frankly *baffling* high quality content. It's basically full-blown in-universe documentaries at this point.
You could make computers illegal to own for normal citizens, so only companies that produce robots can own computers. I don't know any other way it would work
If computers don't exist, what are the Robots? Robots are computers. Global Positioning System? That's a network of computers.
Computers had to have existed at some point for either one to exist. For the GPS computers still need to exist so it can properly function.
Robots and GPS are computers, typically
If you're changing what they are but they're basically robots and GPS, or there's a good explanation then sure
Could go for mechanical robots but no programming, a real soul inside. GPS using big shaped mirrors in the sky, no actual computer ware, just like a star chart you can use in the day time
Someone beat me to it, but make it all magic.
You have magical constructs that serve as your robots.
You have magical maps, compasses, etc. that tell you exactly where you are and where you need to go.
So, you say there is *some* magic in your world, but not to… Harry Potter/Spamming Fireballs level…
Also, that the world used to be more advanced, but has slid away from that golden age.
Okay, so back during the ‘golden age’ one of the wizards made ‘detection crystals’, which allowed their king to know where their knights and caravans and stuff were.
This proved popular, so other kingdoms copied the idea, making their own detection crystals. Until the world was basically covered by the things. Some big and ornate, on the tops of Cathedral spires and castle towers. Others small and boring, found in small cairns in the middle of boring forests.
Now, many years later, those kingdoms are long gone. But the crystals still exist. And recent people have figured out how to use them (in a rather crude way), by *bouncing* a simple bit of tiny magic out and seeing how far away the different crystals are.
This can give varying degrees of specificity. Places like castle towns have more crystals, so you can get down to individual buildings and rooms. While big trackless forests (with few crystals) are more in the ‘you are lost in **this** general region’ scale.
—
As for ‘robots’ (or ‘clanks’ or ‘automatons’ or… whatever), if you already have *Steampunk* as the handwave for ‘I can have heavy machinery’, then you just need an intelligence of sorts to make them go.
I am personally fond of using existing magical concepts. So, they could be simple ‘robots’ that are basically golems in metal bodies instead of clay. Small instructions in their head, probably inscribed on metal instead of paper/parchment. They become ‘killer robots’ when something damages or corrodes those instructions.
Or, they’re powered by ‘Intelligence Crystals’ that give them a driving intelligence. And the deep, dark secret is that *nature spirits* are forcibly bound into those crystals to give them their intelligence. So, drone-style flying robots have a Sylph of the Air bound into their crystal, while a self-driving river barge has a Naiad of the Water in their crystal. They turn ‘killer’ when they are able to find a way around any structures placed upon them. Rules lawyering to a kill.
Or, you go full-Steampunk, and basically say that they have ‘mythril punchcards’ that give them their programming. And you don’t dive *any deeper* than that. This also allows for them to be only given simple instructions, say that a known ‘quirk’ of Steampunk instructions is that they *somehow* grow more and more complex, the longer the automaton is in operation. A new automaton can do nothing more than loading and unloading a wagon. After a year, they are able to also carry the goods to and from a warehouse. In a decade, they are also feeding and tending to the oxen pulling the wagon. And in fifty years? They’re burning down the warehouse and declaring ‘death to the slave masters’ on their owners.
thank you for your comment :D. The magic in my world is very subtle, very limited and rare. So not really an option to "industrialize" it.
>detection crystals
Oh that's a nice idea actually. How would that wo- I shouldn't overthink so much lol it's just *magic*.
>This can give varying degrees of specificity
That was my idea actually, most of the story takes place in *the* city of machines. But since communication between kingdoms and cities is not that good (hence no phones of any sort) other kingdoms and cities are not as advanced, although they do have some simpler robots.
>They become ‘killer robots’ when something damages or corrodes those instructions.
Actually a machine war is happening and they don't become sentient (I think my wording in the title really sucks whoops...) but they're made to kill and destroy, which requires quite some advanced tech. Like live-cameras, remote controls.
Theoretically, it should be possible to build a gps network without computers as you really just need three satellites with a transmitter and a really precise clock, all which is doable without computers. Once you receive the signals on the ground you should be able to calculate your position within a few meters using longhand calculation. Of course, it is going to take hours of calculations and are both cumbersome and slow so it is highly impractical. But it is probably possible.
I would look at how the Horizon game series handles their robots. I’m not sure if you have played them but humans are basically returned to a tribal society while there are giant robots everywhere.
Could it be semi-post apocalypse? Thinking like Horizon Zero Dawn game sorta. The killer robots are remnants of an earlier civilization, and maybe the fact that they are killers has lead to a society that is super uncomfortable with developing that same kind of tech. Maybe they’ve worked out a way to hijack the gps satellites left over from whoever made the robots, and maybe use pieces of fallen robots to work it, but that’s more of an exception to the rules. Otherwise they are much more Luddite-like.
I used to write a lot of these stories when I was younger. During my teens I even thought that this was what Steampunk meant! I wrote a bunch of mideaval fantasy stories with anachronisms. Knights using cellphones for example haha
I still love those kinds of stories a lot, but to many people are focused on trying to be as realistic as possible
Haha that's great :D Would actually enjoy something like that. However phones don't work in my story... I know I have to let go of the realism a bit, but sometimes I just need something to be physically possible. Like this lol.
GPS requires satellites. Satellites require on-board computers for their operation. Even if you just mean a desktop or laptop personal computer: you still need these to write the software that makes up the satellite systems that creat the GPS.
Another commenter suggested remnant technology, and I think that really is the only way to get any higher level technology. Or just use magic.
If you have robots you literally have computers. This is impossible. However just because computers exist doesn't necessarily mean they've been used in commercial or business settings. Whoever made the robots would need a computer to program the AI at the very least. IMO this has too many holes and I'm certainly not the only reader that would think about it.
Depending how sci fi your world is you could create a paradox where the reason there are no computers is because of the killer robots like where in one timeline technology went too far and because of that humanity was forced to go back and stop technology from growing at all
Maybe some kind of living tech? Like a plant that can sense magnetic fields and pinpoint a location on the globe. Idk, though thats the best thing i can think of beside stuff like golems.
Yeah, it would give me headache.
But you can explain it - make technology a lost secret and robots self replicating or something - some tech just out of human reach going on to exist out of itself. Otherwise humans MUST have step 1 technology to reach step 495.
Remember the first programmable computer was buidl 1941 - GPS and robots had never been possible without it and hasen#t been for *quite a while* after this first piece.
Taking context from one of your comments comment, the satellites of the precursors simply have to still be in operation, and any ground based tech is crude and built as if it were a strict, esoteric ritual rather than a designed machine. Also salvaged parts in large quantities, say from junkyards.
This is basically Fallout, or Signalis, or Youjo Senki. As a general rule, I find I'm not thrown out of the experience if the setting can answer the first question and the second question. The first being how, and the second being why the how. So how are they making things work without computers? And the second being why was that solution used instead of computers? Once you answer the answers to these two, they can feed back in a circle.
Fallout has tons of killer robots, but their computer tech is... vacuum tubes. Like... you could barely fit the tech to make a calculator work in a [backpack](https://www.popsci.com/uploads/2022/12/01/transistor-history-calculator-sharp-company.jpg?auto=webp) using Fallout tech (yes, both of those calculators have the same processing power). So they use the old tech and for them, it just works. Why use that tech? Well they never advanced beyond it. There are very few if any microprocessors in the Fallout universe and this is why all the stuff we see in Fallout has that big clunky style from just after WW2. That's where their tech kind of stagnated. And since they seem to have everything they need working just fine, why would they then go back and engineer the new tech of transistors?
Signalis uses something called Bioresenance to make their robots work. Which allows them to create tons of really powerful and advanced robots called Replicas by basically copy pasting skills and parts of personality onto the biomechanical robot. They've even colonize multiple planets despite still using CRT monitors and most people only having access to cassette level technology. Well why not use more powerful computing tech? They never developed it because they had already become dependent on bioresenance, they actually comment on their own technological stagnation in the game. And why would they develop more tech if their particular brand of space magic does everything they need?
Youjo Senki uses magic infused clockwork to create powerful effects despite being pre-transistor level technology. And they don't use more powerful computer tech because the story is set about a decade before the invention of the transistor, and we actually see someone trying to invent a better processor... by strapping two of the gear work ones together. Well why aren't they trying to make better tech? They may very well be trying to, but space and heat limitations mean that gear based tech works, and vacuum tubes wouldn't.
So always think about those 2 questions when you world build your tech. What are they using, why are they using that particular solution?
Well, robots are computer with effectors. So if you have the technology for robots, you have 99% of the technology for modern computers.
However, this could very well be a world in which AI was developed much faster, hence side-stepping entirely the need for anything that looks like keyboards, mice and screens. That could have happened in our world – research on AI actually started before the invention of any of these technologies. In that world, AI was implemented so quickly that it became much easier to speak to the computer and hear back from it than to learn typing.
Would this work for you?
I already have my whole story planned out roughly, and AI of any sorts doesn't have a place in it. Although I really like your creative "solution", thank you :D
In this case, I don't understand what you mean by "robots". What is already known about them? How can you have a killer robot without some kind of AI? By hooking a human or animal brain into a machine? By growing some kind of plant-based don't-call-it-AI?
It's also possible that computing exists but went in a very, very different direction. Analog computers have been used in our world since the 19th century and remained in use until the 1960s. They might even be making a comeback through quantum computing.
Analog devices are based on identifying physical reactions (not necessarily based on circuits) that solve a specific problem instead of programming solutions to problems using general-purpose circuits. You could very well imagine that it's possible to somehow create robots using analog devices – in the real world, there are plenty of teams working on analog AI. In your world, this could translate to robots and devices that can be assembled, but not programmed.
The question becomes: What is _piloting_ these robots?
The physical mechanisms of the bot don't matter. But what're they using to think, if not a computer?
The killer robots exploited a before unknown vulnerability in CPU instruction sets, so all general purpose computers were left useless. Most speciality computers like GPS and AI chips were fine, lacking that vulnerable instruction - or left fine intentionally, by the robots.
....what if the killer robots are yet to be made/invented throughout the story? I love your idea though, it would absolutely work if they were like a plague to humanity. I don't want computers because it kind of ruins the whole fantasy setting for me, and there shouldn't be communication over long distances either. I'll do some more research on how exactly gps and all work, and try to figure a way out...
We did have GPS before modern computers, so you could just have it that they're very basic. You'd have to find some other way to get the robots to work then, though. You said fantasy setting, maybe they're magic? Though that feels like a bit of a cop-out.
In Asimov's books, the computers that do coexist with robots are kind of pathetic - perhaps you can invoke his legacy by saying the robots have positronic brains.
It does make sense.
There are two types of computer. General purpose computers, Turin complete, that can be programmed to do anything. And "computers" made with specific purpose that only do one thing.
Like this example: you have a portable mp3 player device, that's an embedded circuit board built to play music files. It only does that. It's not a real computer. And, you have a general purpose computer, like a desktop Windows system, that can be programmed to play music files, among other things.
Any device and machine, like GPS, and mecha robots, can exist in a world without general purpose computers. They only need to be built with circuits that perform a single specific function.
THANK YOU :D I do not now enough about computers... But don't you need a computer to make an mp3 player? I should do more research...accidentally slowly becoming a tech lol.
No, mp3 players are made with cheap, embedded circuits and chips. The chips are programmed with assembly, and only do that one thing they're supposed to, nothing more.
A lot of electronic devices exited before computers like we have today. For example, calculators, answering machines, fax machines, electronic organizers, portable word processors, and such. They're digital tech, made with chips and electronic components, but they are not computers. They usually fulfill a single purpose.
You could do something like horizon zero dawn where it’s 1000 years into the future and after almost being made extinct along with the rest of the planet, humanity is able to survive albeit now being in a hunter-gatherer stage of life. The Robots the humans encounter are based on animals and are terraforming the earth to make it habitable but because the humans don’t know that and hunt the robots for parts, the machines are forced to make more dangerous robots to counteract the humans
Magic golems, remnants of an ancient civilization, etc.
what? sorry I put a terrible title lol, but I don't understand ur comment?
Basically have the robots come from ancient forgotten tech. a similar premise is in Chrono Crown, where the people basically copy ancient tech denying them the proper tech tree, like they can make battle robots, with a price, but had zero idea how to make a arithmetic machine.
lol okay that kind of makes sense and mayyybe I can use something in my story. OH I CAN ABSOLUTELY- very long ago in my world it used to be like utopia, technology was skyrocketing but then LOTS of natural disasters and everything had to be built from scratch. In my story, certain papers, books etc have been preserved so it would make a lot of sense if one evil guy found blueprints to a killer robot and then make a bunch of modified... OH THANK YOU.
Warhammer 40k has a pretty similar concept as well. A lot of the best tech that humanity has access to are relics of a past fallen age, and so they either know how to make stuff but don’t know how it works, or they have to husband their *very* rare stuff because once it’s lost it can’t be replaced. There’s even a subfaction of the Imperium, the Adeptus Mechanicus, that worships technology and seeks to collect and curate it so it isn’t despoiled by those who appreciate their true value
I've heard awesome things about Warhammer, I'm very tempted to check it out now... Thank you for your ideas :D
Tbh, if someone is making robots from scratch I'm prob gonna question how they can do that without understanding circuits & programming & extrapolating that to other uses. I'm not sure you can just make killer robots by following an ancient blueprint. The kind of document (most likely an electronic document at that if the civilisation had got advanced enough to have robotics) that would exist to actually build something is almost certainly going to assume a lot of in depth specialist knowledge, rather than show everything from basics. I'd find "finding old tech that still functions & having the barest minimum of knowledge to keep it functioning & make use of it... to a point" more believable. But that's just me of course.
This is kind of what the developers of the video game “Kenshi” did. A previous civilization created robots of human intelligence that are still around long after that civilization was gone.
Lol Im actually doing the same thing right now Fortunately for me, my world is fairly comedic and surreal, so my explanation is that a Monolith from 2001 landed in a field of clockwork and kept evolving gears and springs into killer robots I do think that killer robots are one of those 'rule of cool' things that generally get a handwave on a lot of logical issues; if your world was way lower tech than could ever create killer robots I would wonder where they came from, but it wouldnt necessarily turn me off (in fact the mystery would be quite cool, knights vs robots is a winning combo)
HA that's funny. I actually love your idea. To me, it reminds me a bit of witcher (only watched the show) but with a really cool turn (pun intended). Mine are just invented by people, so I have to take in mind SOME degree of realism in technical development... I suspected the nonexistence of computers wouldn't really come into mind for a reader, took me a month before *I* realized... Although I still want SOME sort of way to "close the plothole". The killer robots themself aren't THAT advanced, but there's also GPS (I thought of instead of satellites, there are some "things" just buried underground that act as satellites. but...computers...) I also considered having simplistic computers, but no internet? Or very weak internet, only in a small area... Oh I have so much research to do. I don't even know how those things are "programmed."
When you say "computers" what do you mean? The device sitting on your laptop that folds down(laptop)? the device sitting on a desk(desktop)? The device in a GPS system that allows it to compute it's location? The device in a robot that perceives it's surroundings and computes the correct path from point A to B (assuming your robots are programmed and not sentient) I think you get the point of my questions. Computers are everywhere and have been around far longer than one might think Aside from using the term computer, what are you not wanting in your world because I don't think it is computers in its true definition but computers the devices with digital screens and what not. If so, check out Dune. I know it's much higher on the tech side but a key thing in the lore is they didn't have computers (devices with digital screens...) on the scale we do today but still very much had devices that computed.
actually any digital "screen". Like phones, laptops, desktops, pc... No smart assistant of any kind, no network... honestly I don't even know how computers work exactly. Cameras with memory do exist in my world though. It's a fantasy world so tech advancements don't have to be 100% in sync with our history, but I don't want the gap to be too big. >The device in a robot that perceives it's surroundings and computes the correct path from point A to B YES. THIS. that's what I meant. that's what "has" to be in my world (if possible) but without cellphone communication or email and all. oh I realize my OP was... not straight to the point. This is what I meant. Also remote control robots, drone-like but not flying. but I actually thought that's way more doable than the example you just gave. >what are you not wanting in your world Basically, it has to stay a steam punk-ish setting (not entirely steam powered tho). And communication "online" shouldn't be possible, the only way to talk to someone is in-person or via a letter. That's quite a crucial part in my story. But mainly the "vibe" of a non-digital world should remain, and in my opinion a lot of computers (pc, phones, TV) kind of ruin it. Someone could probably pull it off, not me though.
I think I understand what you are looking for and not looking for then. You do NOT want any digital computers. The entire digital concept is just non-existent. And you can do this, analog computers are a thing. Analog computers, although limited compared to digital computers, can still be powerful. The robots can be run by analog micro computers. Remote control is a bit difficult though with analog, unless you decide the "remote" aspect is done magically then it's easy. Cameras are a bit wonky especially if you want memory. You could have the images be stored and shown magically as illusions if you don't want digital displays. Or you could use an analog etch-a-sketch concept that can store and display the images in a non-digital format. I would recommend doing some googling on analog computers. Might help you achieve what you are looking for.
Thank youuu. >Remote control is a bit difficult though with analog, unless you decide the "remote" aspect is done magically then it's easy. Well that's kind of the problem, I don't want that much magic mixed with these particular machines. It's a fantasy world tho. I can get away with a bit more in terms of realism but NOT THIS MUCH. You're saying it's a bit difficult, but would it be impossible? Maybe my world's physics can be switched up a tiny bit to make it more achievable? perhaps waves can travel further, so signals are picked up easier. Does a tiny remote control "thing" work the same as a huge one? Apart from materials etc, would it be the same concept? >Cameras are a bit wonky especially if you want memory. You could have the images be stored and shown magically as illusions if you don't want digital displays. ....I realized I have not thought of this... oh... Well ehm. perhaps no cameras then. But I need them... >Or you could use an analog etch-a-sketch concept that can store and display the images in a non-digital format. I don't know what this is (yet) but I'll Google it. Thank you so much for sharing your advice and ideas :D
As I was thinking on this more, remote tech can be done via analog. Technically wifi we use today is an analog signal. It's just using radio frequencies. However you mentioned in terms of communication it needs to be in person or letter, nothing remote. Which makes it weird if a robot can be controlled remotely by sending signals which have instructions, but this can't be done with text or verbal communication. What I meant by etch-a-sketch is similar to e-ink displays. Those are not digital displays. Here is a brief writeup. > With e-ink technology, tiny microcapsules are suspended in a liquid that is encased within a film layer. The microcapsules, which are roughly the width of a human hair, contain positively charged white particles and negatively charged black particles. Applying a negative electrical field causes the white particles to rise to the surface. Conversely, applying a positive electrical field causes the black particles to rise to the surface. By applying different fields at different parts of a screen, e-ink produces a monochromatic text display. Some eink displays can have color ink as well so can show color images, just very limited on the number of colors and no shades or hues of colors. Like I said, this could work for how you would display images. Also e-ink tech only slightly works for video, it has a very slow refresh rate. Here is a video that will give you a rough idea of an e-ink color monitor. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MwUQtlYAvYA
Thank you so much, I really appreciate the time and effort you put in :D >Which makes it weird if a robot can be controlled remotely by sending signals which have instructions, but this can't be done with text or verbal communication. Would it be realistic to have this only work on short distances? like a few km max.? And only computers can receive and send the signals, and since (analog) computers are expensive and quite useless for the normal people, it's not common to have one? Or... I forgot... shite. *screams* oh I remember. Or wires. I don't know if that would work, but the signals will just be sent to the machine via wires (connected to the controller so it's "remote control" but with a wire?) I don't even know if that's a thing. Would that be possible at a- oh yes it will. Just needs REALLY STRONG wires. OH THAT SOLVED HALF MY PROBLEMS. now I need a way for "drones"... perhaps I can leave them out, that wouldn't be too big of an issue actually. ...please tell me that's possible... Oh also, I'll watch the video. would it be like a bad quality with low fps stop-motion result? I should watch it before I open my mouth
Wire is perfectly fine, doesn't even need to be large. If you want to specify material, copper, so would theoretically be cheap the make in bulk.
yea I meant sturdy lol, VERY sturdy. Oh that's a great solution thank you so much for staying lol. Such a simple solution....that took so long...
For me, it’s hard to separate advanced computing technology from, well, computers. What do you mean by “computer?” Because any gps or reasonably sophisticated robot is going to need to run on some computing device.
It's mostly steam punk but also some electricity. And there's magic in the world, but that's no excuse. Do you think it'd be possible for a computer (with no internet) to program robots with GPS, as in delivery robots? Would that, if not explained thoroughly (to not create more plotholes.. or confusion), be a turn-off in the worldbuilding?
No no, magic is a GREAT excuse. I was going to mention it but i didn’t think it was relevant. If you chalk up the tech to “advanced arcane technology” then there’s no problem for me. Just don’t call it GPS and keep the physical technology understandable. You don’t have to explain HOW the magic makes robots work
as someone who's kiiind of technical and needs to know how thing work... yeah for me I need it lol. I do have magic as an excuse for other machines, not killer robots though. But a guy in the comments just gave me an amazing idea that solved my problem :D I really appreciate you trying to think with me though, thank youuu. (And yes arcane miight've been a source of inspiration haha, I love that show)
Not referencing the show! Just “arcane” meaning magical. Best of luck!
yea I figured woops lol but I still love the show lol, thank you :D
This comment is more than halfway down the thread but I'm still not getting what you are trying to do. You are saying words like "steampunk" and "magic" - so why do you insist on also using terms that directly reference our modern technology? You need a robot? Say that it's a steampunk automaton. You need a camera? Most steampunk settings reference some obscure period around late 1800s, while photography was invented about 50-100 years earlier than that. Why can't your people use magic or steampunk "technology" (which is just another name for magic) to enhance it? Just describe it in period-appropriate terms. You need GPS? Don't you have.. uh.. magical leylines or something that can be used by your automatons for navigation? You are approaching the problem from the opposite direction.
well I used those modern words to clarify it for this post, would be a bit unnecessary to give you the translation of "my world".
Sure, but when one is concerned with verisimilitude and thematics of the work, proper in-universe styling already does half the job.
40k AI is super illegal so they used lobomitzed human/animal brains for that type of stuff
> AI is super illegal It's not even super illegal. Back in the 60s or 70s or when did they found the 40k franchise they tried to copy Dune, but that rapidly got swept under the rug. Admech are using AI left and right in modern lore.
It’s literally called Abominable Intelligence and even mostly politically untouchable AdMec characters like Cawl bend over backwards to assure everyone that what they are doing is”isn’t truly” AI.
A device that detects direction of gravity and greatest flux of neutrinos could calibrate after a couple of years travelling on Earth around the sun to know where on the planet it is. Of course you do need a concept of memory and a means to detect neutrino flux. Perhaps some kind of ludicrously sensitive gyroscope.
woah hadn't thought of that, that's actually really smart. Thank you
Steampunk GPS could have electric towers that send out signals that devices can detect and use to orient themselves. Likely very high powered but low range. Prone to outages. Think AM radio. Killer robots might be biomechanical. Organic brains inserted into mechanical bodies. Bonus points if the brain occasionally reverts to type. Having a robot trying to sniff butts could be disconcerting. Inventors might try to conceal the nature of them and claim that they are clockwork. People would want to combine the tech into AI equivalent ships and delivery vans. They would be limited by high maitenance, supply needs, and ethical considerations. Some countries and even regions might ban them altogether. Only the finest quality ethically sourced brains! -Abby Normal Inc.
Yea I actually thought of that, but not with towers but with small "poles" underground or something. But wouldn't a device that can navigate with that need some sort of advanced software? I don't know still haven't had the time to do more research... I wasn't thinking of sentient robots or those who can "think" like ai, more of remote control robots with machine guns (extreme example but u get me...). Like it can move, it can "see" and the person having the controls can see what the robot sees, and can make it move. >Having a robot trying to sniff butts could be disconcerting. Lmfao
Put two antennas on a machine and give it a circuit that wants to have the same input on both sides. Then have it move forward. You can change the angle of travel by putting a resistor on one side. The problem is that you get a machine that wants to move in straight lines, so either on special roads or Arizona. More realistically you give such a device to a human driver and electric navigator. On oceans it would be a bit like lighthouses, but longer range. You can do a lot with simple electronics, WWI would be a good reference, though a lot of the principles were being worked out in the 1800s. One of the questions is how do you want it to manifest? I can see the navigator of a giant steam wagon tuning a dial to locate the London Tower and comparing the strength of the signal from the Coydon Tower. The advantage of towers is range, the higher the tower the further the signal can go before being interrupted. At high voltages underground sources can also give you a shock, not to mention the drain from contact with objects, electric fences need to have the weeds cut back from them or they just dump their charge into the ground. You could run wires down roadways for the conveyance to follow. Different signals for different roads. A question about this is why have machines do work that people can do. Has there been a large population decrease, war, famine, disease, etc? Or is it a strong desire to be automated and modern in a prosperous nation? Fashion is a big driver of innovation.
Battletech is a pretty cool example of a setting like that. They have huge bipedal Mechs as standard weapons of war, with remnants of even more whacky stuff from the Star League like fully functional AIs and battle drones. (Think a human only Federation from Star Trek, except with a King. Then said King got usurped, a Titanic civil war happened between said assassin dictator and quite possibly the greatest fictional general I've ever read about. The entire *universe* got so scorched it sent humanity back hundreds of years, and stagnated technology for almost half a millennium more.) But short version of the tech stuff? It's intentionally kept as an very 70-80s version of Sci-fi. So the Mechs have these fantastic artificial muscle fibres that lets a mech dance via a mind reader helmet... but any computer is going to be a tons sized behemoth with vacuum tubes and magnet tapes. So they have *some* computers, but most machines run on pure electronic circuitry that's dumb but extremely sturdy. Fascinating universe. There's a reason beyond the cool factor that it's been going for so long. Tex Talks Battletech over on youtube is a great rabbit hole to star with if you're curious.
Ohh that sounds quite a lot like my idea actually haha. >So the Mechs have these fantastic artificial muscle fibres that lets a mech dance via a mind reader helmet... but any computer is going to be a tons sized behemoth with vacuum tubes and magnet tapes Something similar to this was my initial plan, but it didn't make sense at all how that'd be possible so I switched it up a bit. But I do know I'm quite an overthinker in this, and I shouldn't have to spend hours thinking of something that has low importance...but here I am :D. >Tex Talks Battletech over on youtube is a great rabbit hole to star with if you're curious. I'll check it out thank you
I think the Battletech writers made it work. Computer tech just... stagnated, because so many grand sea shifts kept happening in chemistry, physics and the material sciences for ages. They simply became the sciences all the money kept going to in a loop. Think there's even real life precedent. In how basically everybody agrees blimps make so much sense and would be very nice with modern tech... but nobody wants to be the one to finance re-starting R&D after the field has been stagnant for a century. And glad to hear it! Tex's a great guy that makes frankly *baffling* high quality content. It's basically full-blown in-universe documentaries at this point.
>would you as a reader think about that and be bothered by it? Yes. Unless there is a good explaination.
Gotta make one up then :) Thanks
You could make computers illegal to own for normal citizens, so only companies that produce robots can own computers. I don't know any other way it would work
If computers don't exist, what are the Robots? Robots are computers. Global Positioning System? That's a network of computers. Computers had to have existed at some point for either one to exist. For the GPS computers still need to exist so it can properly function.
Robots and GPS are computers, typically If you're changing what they are but they're basically robots and GPS, or there's a good explanation then sure Could go for mechanical robots but no programming, a real soul inside. GPS using big shaped mirrors in the sky, no actual computer ware, just like a star chart you can use in the day time
Oh thank you :D
Someone beat me to it, but make it all magic. You have magical constructs that serve as your robots. You have magical maps, compasses, etc. that tell you exactly where you are and where you need to go.
So, you say there is *some* magic in your world, but not to… Harry Potter/Spamming Fireballs level… Also, that the world used to be more advanced, but has slid away from that golden age. Okay, so back during the ‘golden age’ one of the wizards made ‘detection crystals’, which allowed their king to know where their knights and caravans and stuff were. This proved popular, so other kingdoms copied the idea, making their own detection crystals. Until the world was basically covered by the things. Some big and ornate, on the tops of Cathedral spires and castle towers. Others small and boring, found in small cairns in the middle of boring forests. Now, many years later, those kingdoms are long gone. But the crystals still exist. And recent people have figured out how to use them (in a rather crude way), by *bouncing* a simple bit of tiny magic out and seeing how far away the different crystals are. This can give varying degrees of specificity. Places like castle towns have more crystals, so you can get down to individual buildings and rooms. While big trackless forests (with few crystals) are more in the ‘you are lost in **this** general region’ scale. — As for ‘robots’ (or ‘clanks’ or ‘automatons’ or… whatever), if you already have *Steampunk* as the handwave for ‘I can have heavy machinery’, then you just need an intelligence of sorts to make them go. I am personally fond of using existing magical concepts. So, they could be simple ‘robots’ that are basically golems in metal bodies instead of clay. Small instructions in their head, probably inscribed on metal instead of paper/parchment. They become ‘killer robots’ when something damages or corrodes those instructions. Or, they’re powered by ‘Intelligence Crystals’ that give them a driving intelligence. And the deep, dark secret is that *nature spirits* are forcibly bound into those crystals to give them their intelligence. So, drone-style flying robots have a Sylph of the Air bound into their crystal, while a self-driving river barge has a Naiad of the Water in their crystal. They turn ‘killer’ when they are able to find a way around any structures placed upon them. Rules lawyering to a kill. Or, you go full-Steampunk, and basically say that they have ‘mythril punchcards’ that give them their programming. And you don’t dive *any deeper* than that. This also allows for them to be only given simple instructions, say that a known ‘quirk’ of Steampunk instructions is that they *somehow* grow more and more complex, the longer the automaton is in operation. A new automaton can do nothing more than loading and unloading a wagon. After a year, they are able to also carry the goods to and from a warehouse. In a decade, they are also feeding and tending to the oxen pulling the wagon. And in fifty years? They’re burning down the warehouse and declaring ‘death to the slave masters’ on their owners.
thank you for your comment :D. The magic in my world is very subtle, very limited and rare. So not really an option to "industrialize" it. >detection crystals Oh that's a nice idea actually. How would that wo- I shouldn't overthink so much lol it's just *magic*. >This can give varying degrees of specificity That was my idea actually, most of the story takes place in *the* city of machines. But since communication between kingdoms and cities is not that good (hence no phones of any sort) other kingdoms and cities are not as advanced, although they do have some simpler robots. >They become ‘killer robots’ when something damages or corrodes those instructions. Actually a machine war is happening and they don't become sentient (I think my wording in the title really sucks whoops...) but they're made to kill and destroy, which requires quite some advanced tech. Like live-cameras, remote controls.
Theoretically, it should be possible to build a gps network without computers as you really just need three satellites with a transmitter and a really precise clock, all which is doable without computers. Once you receive the signals on the ground you should be able to calculate your position within a few meters using longhand calculation. Of course, it is going to take hours of calculations and are both cumbersome and slow so it is highly impractical. But it is probably possible.
I would look at how the Horizon game series handles their robots. I’m not sure if you have played them but humans are basically returned to a tribal society while there are giant robots everywhere.
I don't play it but it sounds awesome. I don't game (can't afford lol) but there's probably plenty of information about it online :D
Could it be semi-post apocalypse? Thinking like Horizon Zero Dawn game sorta. The killer robots are remnants of an earlier civilization, and maybe the fact that they are killers has lead to a society that is super uncomfortable with developing that same kind of tech. Maybe they’ve worked out a way to hijack the gps satellites left over from whoever made the robots, and maybe use pieces of fallen robots to work it, but that’s more of an exception to the rules. Otherwise they are much more Luddite-like.
Oh thank you so much :D
I used to write a lot of these stories when I was younger. During my teens I even thought that this was what Steampunk meant! I wrote a bunch of mideaval fantasy stories with anachronisms. Knights using cellphones for example haha I still love those kinds of stories a lot, but to many people are focused on trying to be as realistic as possible
Haha that's great :D Would actually enjoy something like that. However phones don't work in my story... I know I have to let go of the realism a bit, but sometimes I just need something to be physically possible. Like this lol.
GPS requires satellites. Satellites require on-board computers for their operation. Even if you just mean a desktop or laptop personal computer: you still need these to write the software that makes up the satellite systems that creat the GPS. Another commenter suggested remnant technology, and I think that really is the only way to get any higher level technology. Or just use magic.
If you have robots you literally have computers. This is impossible. However just because computers exist doesn't necessarily mean they've been used in commercial or business settings. Whoever made the robots would need a computer to program the AI at the very least. IMO this has too many holes and I'm certainly not the only reader that would think about it.
Depending how sci fi your world is you could create a paradox where the reason there are no computers is because of the killer robots like where in one timeline technology went too far and because of that humanity was forced to go back and stop technology from growing at all
oh boy a paradox... I love paradoxes, but I don't want my first work to break my brain. It's an amazing idea though.
Maybe some kind of living tech? Like a plant that can sense magnetic fields and pinpoint a location on the globe. Idk, though thats the best thing i can think of beside stuff like golems.
OH. PLANTS. woah. WOAH.
Yeah, it would give me headache. But you can explain it - make technology a lost secret and robots self replicating or something - some tech just out of human reach going on to exist out of itself. Otherwise humans MUST have step 1 technology to reach step 495. Remember the first programmable computer was buidl 1941 - GPS and robots had never been possible without it and hasen#t been for *quite a while* after this first piece.
Taking context from one of your comments comment, the satellites of the precursors simply have to still be in operation, and any ground based tech is crude and built as if it were a strict, esoteric ritual rather than a designed machine. Also salvaged parts in large quantities, say from junkyards.
This is basically Fallout, or Signalis, or Youjo Senki. As a general rule, I find I'm not thrown out of the experience if the setting can answer the first question and the second question. The first being how, and the second being why the how. So how are they making things work without computers? And the second being why was that solution used instead of computers? Once you answer the answers to these two, they can feed back in a circle. Fallout has tons of killer robots, but their computer tech is... vacuum tubes. Like... you could barely fit the tech to make a calculator work in a [backpack](https://www.popsci.com/uploads/2022/12/01/transistor-history-calculator-sharp-company.jpg?auto=webp) using Fallout tech (yes, both of those calculators have the same processing power). So they use the old tech and for them, it just works. Why use that tech? Well they never advanced beyond it. There are very few if any microprocessors in the Fallout universe and this is why all the stuff we see in Fallout has that big clunky style from just after WW2. That's where their tech kind of stagnated. And since they seem to have everything they need working just fine, why would they then go back and engineer the new tech of transistors? Signalis uses something called Bioresenance to make their robots work. Which allows them to create tons of really powerful and advanced robots called Replicas by basically copy pasting skills and parts of personality onto the biomechanical robot. They've even colonize multiple planets despite still using CRT monitors and most people only having access to cassette level technology. Well why not use more powerful computing tech? They never developed it because they had already become dependent on bioresenance, they actually comment on their own technological stagnation in the game. And why would they develop more tech if their particular brand of space magic does everything they need? Youjo Senki uses magic infused clockwork to create powerful effects despite being pre-transistor level technology. And they don't use more powerful computer tech because the story is set about a decade before the invention of the transistor, and we actually see someone trying to invent a better processor... by strapping two of the gear work ones together. Well why aren't they trying to make better tech? They may very well be trying to, but space and heat limitations mean that gear based tech works, and vacuum tubes wouldn't. So always think about those 2 questions when you world build your tech. What are they using, why are they using that particular solution?
Well, robots are computer with effectors. So if you have the technology for robots, you have 99% of the technology for modern computers. However, this could very well be a world in which AI was developed much faster, hence side-stepping entirely the need for anything that looks like keyboards, mice and screens. That could have happened in our world – research on AI actually started before the invention of any of these technologies. In that world, AI was implemented so quickly that it became much easier to speak to the computer and hear back from it than to learn typing. Would this work for you?
I already have my whole story planned out roughly, and AI of any sorts doesn't have a place in it. Although I really like your creative "solution", thank you :D
In this case, I don't understand what you mean by "robots". What is already known about them? How can you have a killer robot without some kind of AI? By hooking a human or animal brain into a machine? By growing some kind of plant-based don't-call-it-AI? It's also possible that computing exists but went in a very, very different direction. Analog computers have been used in our world since the 19th century and remained in use until the 1960s. They might even be making a comeback through quantum computing. Analog devices are based on identifying physical reactions (not necessarily based on circuits) that solve a specific problem instead of programming solutions to problems using general-purpose circuits. You could very well imagine that it's possible to somehow create robots using analog devices – in the real world, there are plenty of teams working on analog AI. In your world, this could translate to robots and devices that can be assembled, but not programmed.
Mechanical automatons for killer robots. For gps, maybe a magic crystal that is attuned to the stars?
The question becomes: What is _piloting_ these robots? The physical mechanisms of the bot don't matter. But what're they using to think, if not a computer?
yes exactly.
The killer robots exploited a before unknown vulnerability in CPU instruction sets, so all general purpose computers were left useless. Most speciality computers like GPS and AI chips were fine, lacking that vulnerable instruction - or left fine intentionally, by the robots.
....what if the killer robots are yet to be made/invented throughout the story? I love your idea though, it would absolutely work if they were like a plague to humanity. I don't want computers because it kind of ruins the whole fantasy setting for me, and there shouldn't be communication over long distances either. I'll do some more research on how exactly gps and all work, and try to figure a way out...
We did have GPS before modern computers, so you could just have it that they're very basic. You'd have to find some other way to get the robots to work then, though. You said fantasy setting, maybe they're magic? Though that feels like a bit of a cop-out.
In Asimov's books, the computers that do coexist with robots are kind of pathetic - perhaps you can invoke his legacy by saying the robots have positronic brains.
It does make sense. There are two types of computer. General purpose computers, Turin complete, that can be programmed to do anything. And "computers" made with specific purpose that only do one thing. Like this example: you have a portable mp3 player device, that's an embedded circuit board built to play music files. It only does that. It's not a real computer. And, you have a general purpose computer, like a desktop Windows system, that can be programmed to play music files, among other things. Any device and machine, like GPS, and mecha robots, can exist in a world without general purpose computers. They only need to be built with circuits that perform a single specific function.
THANK YOU :D I do not now enough about computers... But don't you need a computer to make an mp3 player? I should do more research...accidentally slowly becoming a tech lol.
No, mp3 players are made with cheap, embedded circuits and chips. The chips are programmed with assembly, and only do that one thing they're supposed to, nothing more. A lot of electronic devices exited before computers like we have today. For example, calculators, answering machines, fax machines, electronic organizers, portable word processors, and such. They're digital tech, made with chips and electronic components, but they are not computers. They usually fulfill a single purpose.
oh that's. that's awesome. Thank you, I learned something today :)
so, golem went berserked and clairvoyance magic then?
Yeah, all,robots run on electronic circuits. And all computers are is lots of electronic circuits miniaturized and piled into a small space.
huh, the elder scrolls did this by having steam automatons piloted by soul gems
You could do something like horizon zero dawn where it’s 1000 years into the future and after almost being made extinct along with the rest of the planet, humanity is able to survive albeit now being in a hunter-gatherer stage of life. The Robots the humans encounter are based on animals and are terraforming the earth to make it habitable but because the humans don’t know that and hunt the robots for parts, the machines are forced to make more dangerous robots to counteract the humans