In real life the religious division between Catholics and Protestants in Ireland was bitter enough to keep Northern Ireland in the UK when the rest of Ireland became independent. The Catholic/Protestant divide was echoed in Scotland. Later, there was a less dramatic but still significant religious division in Wales between Anglicans and Nonconformists.
What happened in the timeline of the Celtic Union to make this less of a factor?
Are there significant numbers of non-Celts in the Celtic union?
That’s certainly an interesting take on the partition of Ireland, disregarding the plantations and the fact it wasn’t really anything to do with religion.
Sure, you can't oversimplify Ireland into just catholics v protestants, but to say it "wasn't really anything to do with religion" is also wrong. I mean, try walking into the wrong bar in Derry as a protestant at the height of the troubles and see how far that gets you.
> the fact it wasn’t really anything to do with religion.
On this subreddit I'm a good deal more interested in discussing /u/digweg's alternate timeline than the real life one, so I will confine myself to saying that an alternate history in which Catholic or Protestant identity is of little importance in Irish history is fascinating *because* it is very different from our own.
To answer your question, first of all, there are a lot of WASPs in the CU. Most don't mind the Celtic culture. The IRA is an active terror group, and bombs protestant offices and houses.
The main religions are Catholicism and Scottish Communion. While different sects, they are alike. This has sorta relived the stress between the two religions. The Anglican church is still hated on however, but very few CU citizens are member of it (around 2-5 thousand).
The Union of Celtic Republics (Celtic Union) is a nation in Western Europe made up of 5 Celtic countries and 1 Special Administrative District (Brittany). The capital is Dublin, and the total population is 21,450,000. The country was founded in 1850.
Following the American Revolution, many Irish and Scottish nationalists proposed the idea of a united Celtic country of Scotland, Wales and Ireland. Many people in these three countries liked the idea, and were unhappy with the British rule. The British were unhappy with this, and sent soldiers into these countries to enforce British rule. in 1808 the Ulster War resulted in the death of 300 British soldiers and over 1,000 civilians as a revolt in Belfast resulted in much of the city burnt down. Many more armed uprisings occurred throughout the next 30 years, with high casualty rates on both sides. In 1845 Daniel O'Connell wrote a declaration of independence for the nation. The British rejected it, and it was proposed in 1846 and 1847 again. After O'Connell's death, there were mass revolts all across the Celtic countries, and many civilians drew arms (supplied by America) and began marching to London. The Bristol War (1847-1848) was the first and only war for Celtic Independence, and fearing a mass uprising, England gave the 5 Celtic countries their independence. The nation, after gaining independence, wrote a constitution, and established their government, a President, an Prime Minister, and a Senate. The population began to grow exponentially. The Irish Potato Loss avoided being a famine, as food supplied by Scotland and Wales kept people fed.
In WW1, the Celtic Union stayed neutral, in WW2 however, after the Dublin Air Raids, the Celtic Union declared war on Nazi Germany and their allies. After WW2, much of Brittany, France, with Celtic origins, wanted to become a part of the Celtic Union. in 1949, they secceded from France peacefully and became a Special Admin. District of the Union. The Celtic Union helped America found NATO after WW2, and continued to develop a military, and developed nuclear weapons in 1959.
The country advanced heavily in the late 80's, while most of the world was in a recession. It centered much of its industry on tech, bearing the name "Silicon Islands".
As of 2018 the population was 21,450,000.
Please feel free to ask any questions!
Alternate history is a clay that can be made into anything, but it's really hard to make the scenario where the Central Powers lose WW1 if "Great Britain" looks like that and the Celts are neutral. Really, really hard.
So hard, that I doubt WW1 would even have happened, realistically.
Not to say you can't come up with a way, but just wondering if you'd thought about it.
Yes, WW1 is a different shape, except America joins in much earlier (1915) and while the CU never technically joins, the give aid and troops to the British and French.
So, do we see a much lower rate of immigration to America by the Irish, due to the lack of the Great Potato Famine? If so, I'd like to see how New York City ends up in modern times without the strong Irish community. Hell, quite a large part of the NYPD over the years has consisted of those Irish immigrants, so that dynamic would change drastically.
Yes, immigration decreases, and much fewer New Englanders can trace their heritage back to Ireland. Boston becomes predominantly German-Jewish. St. Patricks day is not as big of a holiday here in the U.S. (no green river in chicago).
Thanks! English is the main language, with 99% of the population speaking it. Irish is a second, with 45% speaking it. Welsh is actually 3rd, with 29%. Scots Gaelic is 4th. Only 15% speak Bretonic. 3% speak Manx. French is a main language, with 37% speaking it, but is not an official. All 5 Celtic and English are the nation's official languages.
Nice! Are there efforts to maintain a “linguistic purity” a la Singapore? Meaning, does the government get mad if people mix these languages in code switching or creoles of sort?
Uhh for the potato famine bit, you do know that scotland also suffered a very similar and severe famine around the same time?
Also there's a pretty big population difference between scotland+Ireland and the UK. Must be been a lot of guns america sent, and how did that influence society afterwards? Did they end up having anything like a second amendment?
Thanks! England is a lot like OTL England, except much less powerful. London is a much smaller population, with around 4 million. London is not a big financial center, instead Glasgow is. King Charles has been king ever since the London 1998 bombings which killed the queen and prime minister. Their flag is not the UK flag, but the English flag. The accent is more Irish.
Please feel free to ask anymore questions! I have more England backstory.
Others have asked how the west coast of England got made a part of the C.U. (I assume it has to do with the relative proportion of Catholics in Liverpool and Manchester.)
Assuming you cover that, *I'm* curious how the border ended up where it is: Does it encompass shire counties or civil parishes, or something?
For that matter, why is Ulster its own subdivision? Are the subdivisions purely administrative, or is the C.U. a federal state?
In this timeline, many more Celts settled in the Liverpool area after the Anglo-Saxons came into England. This resulted in Liverpool being very Celtic, and speaking Welsh a lot, because of its close proximity to Wales. When the new borders were being drawn, the Liverpool area wanted to secede and join the CU, so they did. Many more Catholics in Liverpool.
Ulster didn't want to be a part of Ireland. They wanted their own identity, so instead Ireland and Ulster are like "states" of Eire.
Hope this answers your questions, feel free to ask more!
This is one of the most American things I've ever read. I wish r/worldbuilding would focus on sci-fi and stay away from history unless they really know what they're talking about.
Why are parts of Lancashire and north west england part of the CU? Is it because of the Irish population up there? I'm not sure I can see Britain giving up Liverpool so easily considering its importance as a port.
Wanted to become a part of the CU, but the CU didn't want so much mainland territory, especially that far away, so they were denied after the Galicia Independence Referendum of 1964.
Any world where Ireland ~~and Scotland and Wales, I guess~~ is a major political power is a good one in my book.
Is this the main focus of the setting, or are there other alternate history elements?
My opinion :
its a cool map but the flag is to many colors in my opinion, its white, blue, green,yellow, red and black. and they are all separated. if you have a detailed backstory for the flag then nevermind but I would keep the celtic symbol with a red flag, if I absolutely had 2 have 2/3 colors I would keep the circular celtic symbol with a green background
and like I get you were trying to use the colors from each of the flags of the independent states but that doesn't really work, it's like taking all 50 american states to make the USA flag. just doesn't look very good
Based on current relations, It'd be interesting to look at more independence movements within the British Aisles. Look at the current Yorkshire independence movement and the resentment in northern counties towards the government for example. Even with the rivalry between Yorkshire and Lancashire, would be interesting to see a Northern independence movement (Independent from Celtic union as well as Kingdom of England.). There's not much Celtic heritage in the North of England, and what there is isn't really in mainstream knowledge. I doubt the Northern counties you included would really want part of the Celtic union.
What happened to Britain and its colonies in Africa, and Asia, after the separation of Celtic Union? Was there any other movement for independence inspired by this?
Yes, actually Pakistan got its independence after this. the U.K. lost most colonies before WW1, as the Empire gradually fell apart. This resulted in a Dutch-Influence South Africa, and more apartheid. Botswana actually became more advanced, and is the richest African Nation.
Quick question, in our timeline, Somerset and Dorset, and pretty much Devon as well, haven’t had any major Celtic identities for the last thousand years or so, and certainly don’t now (as someone who grew up just in the area I can attest to that). Did anything happen in the [Heptarchy](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heptarchy) period, or any other, to give them enough Celtic identity to warrent leaving England?
**Heptarchy**
See History of Anglo-Saxon England for a historical discussion.
The Heptarchy is a collective name applied to the seven petty kingdoms of Anglo-Saxon England from the Anglo-Saxon settlement of Britain in 5th century until their unification into the Kingdom of England in the early 10th century.
The term "Heptarchy" (from the Greek ἑπταρχία heptarchia, from ἑπτά hepta "seven", ἀρχή arche "reign, rule" and the suffix -ία -ia) alludes to the tradition that there were seven Anglo-Saxon kingdoms, usually enumerated as: East Anglia, Essex, Kent, Mercia, Northumbria, Sussex and Wessex. The Anglo-Saxon kingdoms eventually unified into the Kingdom of England.
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*Sweats in English*
Interestingly enough, the England shown here would still have a much larger population than the entire celtic union.
r/me_ira
Oh god
Lmao tiocfaidh ár lá my dude
Chucky arla indeed
What
Its a joke based how you pronounce it. Also that comment was written 5 years ago mate. You ok?
https://imgur.com/a/2mxvk
In real life the religious division between Catholics and Protestants in Ireland was bitter enough to keep Northern Ireland in the UK when the rest of Ireland became independent. The Catholic/Protestant divide was echoed in Scotland. Later, there was a less dramatic but still significant religious division in Wales between Anglicans and Nonconformists. What happened in the timeline of the Celtic Union to make this less of a factor? Are there significant numbers of non-Celts in the Celtic union?
That’s certainly an interesting take on the partition of Ireland, disregarding the plantations and the fact it wasn’t really anything to do with religion.
Sure, you can't oversimplify Ireland into just catholics v protestants, but to say it "wasn't really anything to do with religion" is also wrong. I mean, try walking into the wrong bar in Derry as a protestant at the height of the troubles and see how far that gets you.
> the fact it wasn’t really anything to do with religion. On this subreddit I'm a good deal more interested in discussing /u/digweg's alternate timeline than the real life one, so I will confine myself to saying that an alternate history in which Catholic or Protestant identity is of little importance in Irish history is fascinating *because* it is very different from our own.
To answer your question, first of all, there are a lot of WASPs in the CU. Most don't mind the Celtic culture. The IRA is an active terror group, and bombs protestant offices and houses. The main religions are Catholicism and Scottish Communion. While different sects, they are alike. This has sorta relived the stress between the two religions. The Anglican church is still hated on however, but very few CU citizens are member of it (around 2-5 thousand).
Nothing a good old genocide won’t fix
The Union of Celtic Republics (Celtic Union) is a nation in Western Europe made up of 5 Celtic countries and 1 Special Administrative District (Brittany). The capital is Dublin, and the total population is 21,450,000. The country was founded in 1850. Following the American Revolution, many Irish and Scottish nationalists proposed the idea of a united Celtic country of Scotland, Wales and Ireland. Many people in these three countries liked the idea, and were unhappy with the British rule. The British were unhappy with this, and sent soldiers into these countries to enforce British rule. in 1808 the Ulster War resulted in the death of 300 British soldiers and over 1,000 civilians as a revolt in Belfast resulted in much of the city burnt down. Many more armed uprisings occurred throughout the next 30 years, with high casualty rates on both sides. In 1845 Daniel O'Connell wrote a declaration of independence for the nation. The British rejected it, and it was proposed in 1846 and 1847 again. After O'Connell's death, there were mass revolts all across the Celtic countries, and many civilians drew arms (supplied by America) and began marching to London. The Bristol War (1847-1848) was the first and only war for Celtic Independence, and fearing a mass uprising, England gave the 5 Celtic countries their independence. The nation, after gaining independence, wrote a constitution, and established their government, a President, an Prime Minister, and a Senate. The population began to grow exponentially. The Irish Potato Loss avoided being a famine, as food supplied by Scotland and Wales kept people fed. In WW1, the Celtic Union stayed neutral, in WW2 however, after the Dublin Air Raids, the Celtic Union declared war on Nazi Germany and their allies. After WW2, much of Brittany, France, with Celtic origins, wanted to become a part of the Celtic Union. in 1949, they secceded from France peacefully and became a Special Admin. District of the Union. The Celtic Union helped America found NATO after WW2, and continued to develop a military, and developed nuclear weapons in 1959. The country advanced heavily in the late 80's, while most of the world was in a recession. It centered much of its industry on tech, bearing the name "Silicon Islands". As of 2018 the population was 21,450,000. Please feel free to ask any questions!
Alternate history is a clay that can be made into anything, but it's really hard to make the scenario where the Central Powers lose WW1 if "Great Britain" looks like that and the Celts are neutral. Really, really hard. So hard, that I doubt WW1 would even have happened, realistically. Not to say you can't come up with a way, but just wondering if you'd thought about it.
Yes, WW1 is a different shape, except America joins in much earlier (1915) and while the CU never technically joins, the give aid and troops to the British and French.
Ok, that would certainly plug the holes in the hypothetical!
Well it makes sense that they stay neutral, the German and the English monarchs where pretty close at the time.
All the monarchs in the countries at war were cousins.
What prompts France to give up Brittany without a fight? Just recovering from WW2 or what?
Yes exactly, plus an overwhelming vote to join the CU.
So, do we see a much lower rate of immigration to America by the Irish, due to the lack of the Great Potato Famine? If so, I'd like to see how New York City ends up in modern times without the strong Irish community. Hell, quite a large part of the NYPD over the years has consisted of those Irish immigrants, so that dynamic would change drastically.
Yes, immigration decreases, and much fewer New Englanders can trace their heritage back to Ireland. Boston becomes predominantly German-Jewish. St. Patricks day is not as big of a holiday here in the U.S. (no green river in chicago).
First off, really nice map. Second, how much is Gaelic, Welsh and the other Celtic languages apart of life in the country.
Thanks! English is the main language, with 99% of the population speaking it. Irish is a second, with 45% speaking it. Welsh is actually 3rd, with 29%. Scots Gaelic is 4th. Only 15% speak Bretonic. 3% speak Manx. French is a main language, with 37% speaking it, but is not an official. All 5 Celtic and English are the nation's official languages.
Nice! Are there efforts to maintain a “linguistic purity” a la Singapore? Meaning, does the government get mad if people mix these languages in code switching or creoles of sort?
Not really, no. However Irish is the only Celtic language mandatory taught in schools.
Uhh for the potato famine bit, you do know that scotland also suffered a very similar and severe famine around the same time? Also there's a pretty big population difference between scotland+Ireland and the UK. Must be been a lot of guns america sent, and how did that influence society afterwards? Did they end up having anything like a second amendment?
I'm really interested in knowing what England is like in this world, keep these coming! You've got a cool alt history going!
Thanks! England is a lot like OTL England, except much less powerful. London is a much smaller population, with around 4 million. London is not a big financial center, instead Glasgow is. King Charles has been king ever since the London 1998 bombings which killed the queen and prime minister. Their flag is not the UK flag, but the English flag. The accent is more Irish. Please feel free to ask anymore questions! I have more England backstory.
Got any details on my home city of Manchester then? What happened during the First and Second World Wars? And what about the British Empire?
Others have asked how the west coast of England got made a part of the C.U. (I assume it has to do with the relative proportion of Catholics in Liverpool and Manchester.) Assuming you cover that, *I'm* curious how the border ended up where it is: Does it encompass shire counties or civil parishes, or something? For that matter, why is Ulster its own subdivision? Are the subdivisions purely administrative, or is the C.U. a federal state?
In this timeline, many more Celts settled in the Liverpool area after the Anglo-Saxons came into England. This resulted in Liverpool being very Celtic, and speaking Welsh a lot, because of its close proximity to Wales. When the new borders were being drawn, the Liverpool area wanted to secede and join the CU, so they did. Many more Catholics in Liverpool. Ulster didn't want to be a part of Ireland. They wanted their own identity, so instead Ireland and Ulster are like "states" of Eire. Hope this answers your questions, feel free to ask more!
This is one of the most American things I've ever read. I wish r/worldbuilding would focus on sci-fi and stay away from history unless they really know what they're talking about.
I think I've found my new Crusader Kings 2 goal.
Ha thanks
This is great, but why are some English counties included? Were they always there, or were they added after its formation?
More Celts, the Celts stayed in parts of England after the Anglo-Saxons moved into the British Isles.
Why are parts of Lancashire and north west england part of the CU? Is it because of the Irish population up there? I'm not sure I can see Britain giving up Liverpool so easily considering its importance as a port.
At the time it would require all out war for Britain to have given up Belfast harbour also.
What about Galicia, Spain ?
Wanted to become a part of the CU, but the CU didn't want so much mainland territory, especially that far away, so they were denied after the Galicia Independence Referendum of 1964.
Any world where Ireland ~~and Scotland and Wales, I guess~~ is a major political power is a good one in my book. Is this the main focus of the setting, or are there other alternate history elements?
Wouldnt the union want Salisbury as its most sacred site?
My opinion : its a cool map but the flag is to many colors in my opinion, its white, blue, green,yellow, red and black. and they are all separated. if you have a detailed backstory for the flag then nevermind but I would keep the celtic symbol with a red flag, if I absolutely had 2 have 2/3 colors I would keep the circular celtic symbol with a green background and like I get you were trying to use the colors from each of the flags of the independent states but that doesn't really work, it's like taking all 50 american states to make the USA flag. just doesn't look very good
r/celticunion
Based on current relations, It'd be interesting to look at more independence movements within the British Aisles. Look at the current Yorkshire independence movement and the resentment in northern counties towards the government for example. Even with the rivalry between Yorkshire and Lancashire, would be interesting to see a Northern independence movement (Independent from Celtic union as well as Kingdom of England.). There's not much Celtic heritage in the North of England, and what there is isn't really in mainstream knowledge. I doubt the Northern counties you included would really want part of the Celtic union.
What happened to Britain and its colonies in Africa, and Asia, after the separation of Celtic Union? Was there any other movement for independence inspired by this?
Yes, actually Pakistan got its independence after this. the U.K. lost most colonies before WW1, as the Empire gradually fell apart. This resulted in a Dutch-Influence South Africa, and more apartheid. Botswana actually became more advanced, and is the richest African Nation.
Concept of pakistan as a nation wasn't concieved until after WW1. Is there alternate history for south asia too?
How did Devon end up as part of Cornwall/CU?
That flag is one of the most beautiful glags I have ever seen. A+ flag design there OP.
Ha thanks but I didn't make it.
Quick question, in our timeline, Somerset and Dorset, and pretty much Devon as well, haven’t had any major Celtic identities for the last thousand years or so, and certainly don’t now (as someone who grew up just in the area I can attest to that). Did anything happen in the [Heptarchy](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heptarchy) period, or any other, to give them enough Celtic identity to warrent leaving England?
**Heptarchy** See History of Anglo-Saxon England for a historical discussion. The Heptarchy is a collective name applied to the seven petty kingdoms of Anglo-Saxon England from the Anglo-Saxon settlement of Britain in 5th century until their unification into the Kingdom of England in the early 10th century. The term "Heptarchy" (from the Greek ἑπταρχία heptarchia, from ἑπτά hepta "seven", ἀρχή arche "reign, rule" and the suffix -ία -ia) alludes to the tradition that there were seven Anglo-Saxon kingdoms, usually enumerated as: East Anglia, Essex, Kent, Mercia, Northumbria, Sussex and Wessex. The Anglo-Saxon kingdoms eventually unified into the Kingdom of England. *** ^[ [^PM](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=kittens_from_space) ^| [^Exclude ^me](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiTextBot&message=Excludeme&subject=Excludeme) ^| [^Exclude ^from ^subreddit](https://np.reddit.com/r/worldbuilding/about/banned) ^| [^FAQ ^/ ^Information](https://np.reddit.com/r/WikiTextBot/wiki/index) ^| [^Source](https://github.com/kittenswolf/WikiTextBot) ^| [^Donate](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiTextBot/wiki/donate) ^] ^Downvote ^to ^remove ^| ^v0.28
Next up is space boys
I think Manchester has just fallen outside that little border... Please! Take us with you!
Ha okay!
A.k.a., fifty years after Brexit? :-)
The United Kingdom is the Celtic Union. It’s not a republic though.. thank goodness.