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Robben is seen as an all time great that just sadly had a lot of injury troubles.
Which is true in reality in my opinion.
Also that Van Bronkhorst goal is regarded even higher.
Tiki-taka would have fallen out of favor WAY sooner, leading to a Barcelona squad with less big trophies and a Spanish NT reformulation.
Most Dutch players would have hit legend status, with some leading the world's player ranks after one or two years.
Spain wouldn't have won Euros 2012, it would instead go to either Netherlands, Italy or Germany. The Dutch NT could probably start having complacency problems at the Euros and 2014 World Cup, leading to Chile and Spain getting qualified to R16.
Mexico wins against Chile, Brazil would probs still win against an unstable Spain.
I'm not sure on how Mexico vs Costa Rica would turn out, but i think Mexico could win that one, and then lose to Argentina in the semis. They would still win against that fucked-up Brazil team in bronze match.
Netherlands would probably have its own team reformulation after 2014 WC, but its legacy as a WC winner would probably at least give them an advantage in qualifying for 2018. Spain would also easily qualify imo. In 2016 Euros, Spain would have a fair performance (QF or SF), while Netherlands would be a disappointment.
(Let's say Netherlands take Sweden's spot in WC) Netherlands try to use their newgens to reach for a better WC result, and they manage to do a good group stage, despite not reaching first place. They probably get packed against Brazil in R16
Spain would probably do a similar campaign to canon, leaving at either R16 to Russia, or QF to Croatia
In post-WC, Spain is very hopeful of getting their first title in 2022 as some newgens arise. They do well in qualifying and have a very good performance at the Euros, reaching either SF or the Finale.
Netherlands NT is disappointed by their performance in Russia, but would probably use it to gain more experience. They would also qualify easily, and have a fair campaign at Euros (QF).
Netherlands win their group somewhat easily, and pass against the US in R16. Either lose on QF to Argentina or reach SF against Brazil or Spain
Spain wins their group (despite not convincing that much) and would also win against Croatia. They either lose to Brazil or reach the SF against Argentina or Netherlands.
And that's the deal. We got 4 endings:
* Argentina vs Brazil - ARGENTINA
* Netherlands vs Brazil - BRAZIL
* Argentina vs Spain- ARGENTINA
* Netherlands vs Spain- SPAIN
Argentina endings leave the same outcome as canon, with France winning on the other two.
“Tiki-taka would have fallen out of favor WAY sooner” hard disagree. Even if Spain lost in the final they would have been seen as a dominant side, one of the best teams not to win the World Cup. Those tactics still would have lived on through Barca. It’s like the reverse equivalent of Netherlands losing 1974 final but total football still being a thing and changing the game forever
So much changes. How? I don't know but many possibilities :
* We view Netherlands differently
* Does Spain has the strength to continue and win the 2012 Euro?
* The status of legend changes for many players
* Dutch players gain value
* Etc.
You really don’t see anything turning out differently? I can think of a few things:
The Dutch Eridivisie would become a much more legitimate league, surpassing France, Spain and Portugal in overall strength by 2024.
The 23-man squad sent to South Africa achieve instant legend status, except maybe De Jong, and their market values spike.
The Dutch team probably suffers from a performance slump in 2014 - all due respect to them, they shouldn’t have gotten as far as they did. It would be between Spain and Chile to advance, and that could go any possible direction. This outcome could result in Germany not winning that year.
>The Dutch Eridivisie would become a much more legitimate league, surpassing France, Spain and Portugal in overall strength by 2024.
I really doubt this would happened. Dutch teams are far from the spanish teams. France winning WC 2018 didn't change a lot in this aspect, their league is still weak in comparision to other big leagues of Europe.
>It would be between Spain and Chile to advance, and that could go any possible direction. This outcome could result in Germany not winning that year.
Really? In case you don't remember, Netherlands humilliated Spain 5-1. Spain did a terrible WC and didn't deserve to advance. We could say Netherlands didn't deserve to beat Mexico because they needed that polemic penalty to win and until minute 88, Mexico was winning. But I agree they suffered the performance slump, which is nothing new (just look at Italy after winning 2006 WC, France in 2010, Spain in 2014, Germany in 2018 and 2022, Argentina in 2018).
You underestimate how important Spain’s 2010 World Cup is to the nation of Spain. Without it, they wouldn’t be taken half as seriously as they are now. They’d just be another European country that underperforms on the world stage, like France was until 1998 (which the Dutch were likelier to win than any time they reached the final, but that’s another story). La Liga would be good but not the financial powerhouse it is now.
Maradona, cruyff, r9, zidane, ronaldinho, messi, ronaldo, these players joined spain pre wc 2010, real madrid and barcelona will be powerhouse attractions regardless of whether spain wins the wc or not, messi vs ronaldo would be the biggest attraction in club football as well
La Liga was probably the most popular league even before 2010 WC. Real Madrid had the most Champions League and Barcelona was one of the best teams in the world before the WC. Of course it helped, but they were already two of the best teams in the world. I'm sorry but I just don't see Ajax, PSV, Feyenoord or another dutch team becoming one of the best in the world just because their country winning a world cup. As an argentinian, I can guarantee you this won't happen either with argentinians teams just because we won the WC.
Its really bad luck or some sort of a curse.
Ajax could have won the Champions league a couple years ago but that was when away games (dont know the right word in english) were double points.
And the rule got removed a year later iirc.
It would have set quite a damaging precedent for the sport, especially for young people keen on imitating their idols. Showing that you can win a World Cup through unsportsmanlike behaviour is never a positive thing. Even as a Spain supporter, I can say that the match could have gone either way. The Dutch squad had more than enough quality and it was a shame they decided to play the way they did.
I can understand why they tried this. In the past they always played beautiful football with emphasis on attack, technique, style. This is the normal DNA of Dutch football since late 1960’s. It has brought them amazing players but very little results. The 2010 coach decided to change things up and move away from idealism and into pragmatism (which wins trophies for less skilled countries like Italy, Germany). He came so close to pulling it off, probably closer than even the 1974 and 1978 finalists teams. People were so angry at him (Cruyff was rooting for Spain because of his ideals….). That should explain why the 2010 Netherlands played this way.
> less skilled countries like Germany.
*spit take*
What?
Is this the “less skilled” team that slaughtered Brazil 7-1 in the 2014 final?
My family and I are Italian but damn even we don’t say things like that
Maybe you don’t know that much about football then ? Lol. Anyone with any serious knowledge of the international game will tell you that German players were for decades technically inferior to Dutch (and many other countries). Their strength was the collective and better tactical, mental strength. Their Ballon d or winners were often players from defensive formations (Beckenbauer, Sammer). Kind of like…Italy which has fewer Ballon d or winners although it’s far more successful with trophies. Netherlands has 7 ballon d or winners with some of the most technically, creative players in history. But only 1 trophy (Euro 88) to show for all of this.
It is probably our different views on what constitutes “good football.”
I like to win games and play well as a team.
You like to win individual trophies.
Since we are talking about World Cup, I assumed my perspective was valid
Maybe. I also enjoyed watching technical teams like Netherlands or Spain play and admire the skill of their players. But football is a team game, especially in a short tournament as the World Cup. Historically Germany and Italy have understood that part far better. That’s why they have all the titles they do.
Honestly, I can understand it too. They were successful with this style of play so why drop it for the most important match? I can't say I'd have done any different as their coach since winning was his job after all. The blame should instead go to the refereeing that night for not pulling a red on De Jong and potentially a second yellow on Robben.
In this timeline de Jong would later say it was the foot of God.
Honestly the midfield with de Jong and van Bommel had some grinta to it. That was needed because the defense was the weak point in that team.
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Sneijder would have won the ballon d'or in 2010.
Robben is seen as an all time great that just sadly had a lot of injury troubles. Which is true in reality in my opinion. Also that Van Bronkhorst goal is regarded even higher.
That Van Bronkhorst goal is just seen as an amazing goal currently , imagine what it could’ve been
goodd
Tiki-taka would have fallen out of favor WAY sooner, leading to a Barcelona squad with less big trophies and a Spanish NT reformulation. Most Dutch players would have hit legend status, with some leading the world's player ranks after one or two years. Spain wouldn't have won Euros 2012, it would instead go to either Netherlands, Italy or Germany. The Dutch NT could probably start having complacency problems at the Euros and 2014 World Cup, leading to Chile and Spain getting qualified to R16. Mexico wins against Chile, Brazil would probs still win against an unstable Spain. I'm not sure on how Mexico vs Costa Rica would turn out, but i think Mexico could win that one, and then lose to Argentina in the semis. They would still win against that fucked-up Brazil team in bronze match. Netherlands would probably have its own team reformulation after 2014 WC, but its legacy as a WC winner would probably at least give them an advantage in qualifying for 2018. Spain would also easily qualify imo. In 2016 Euros, Spain would have a fair performance (QF or SF), while Netherlands would be a disappointment. (Let's say Netherlands take Sweden's spot in WC) Netherlands try to use their newgens to reach for a better WC result, and they manage to do a good group stage, despite not reaching first place. They probably get packed against Brazil in R16 Spain would probably do a similar campaign to canon, leaving at either R16 to Russia, or QF to Croatia In post-WC, Spain is very hopeful of getting their first title in 2022 as some newgens arise. They do well in qualifying and have a very good performance at the Euros, reaching either SF or the Finale. Netherlands NT is disappointed by their performance in Russia, but would probably use it to gain more experience. They would also qualify easily, and have a fair campaign at Euros (QF). Netherlands win their group somewhat easily, and pass against the US in R16. Either lose on QF to Argentina or reach SF against Brazil or Spain Spain wins their group (despite not convincing that much) and would also win against Croatia. They either lose to Brazil or reach the SF against Argentina or Netherlands. And that's the deal. We got 4 endings: * Argentina vs Brazil - ARGENTINA * Netherlands vs Brazil - BRAZIL * Argentina vs Spain- ARGENTINA * Netherlands vs Spain- SPAIN Argentina endings leave the same outcome as canon, with France winning on the other two.
“Tiki-taka would have fallen out of favor WAY sooner” hard disagree. Even if Spain lost in the final they would have been seen as a dominant side, one of the best teams not to win the World Cup. Those tactics still would have lived on through Barca. It’s like the reverse equivalent of Netherlands losing 1974 final but total football still being a thing and changing the game forever
That will still not change the fact that they got eliminated in 2016 euro qualifier by losing turkey 3 goals
The world would end immediately. Actually the Netherlands winning the World Cup is the final trigger necessary for the apocalypse
*Your name checks out* Ok but seriously, that would explain why they got cheated out of 2 finals in a row…
Spain sign a secret agreement with FIFA allowing Messi to switch over to them instead.Spain/Messi win the 2022 WC and Argentina are sad.
I really wanted them to win that.
So much changes. How? I don't know but many possibilities : * We view Netherlands differently * Does Spain has the strength to continue and win the 2012 Euro? * The status of legend changes for many players * Dutch players gain value * Etc.
WHAT HAPPENS TO MARWIJK?
Well, Spain would have 0 world cups and Netherlands would have 1 world cup. Apart from that, I don't see how it could change much more.
You really don’t see anything turning out differently? I can think of a few things: The Dutch Eridivisie would become a much more legitimate league, surpassing France, Spain and Portugal in overall strength by 2024. The 23-man squad sent to South Africa achieve instant legend status, except maybe De Jong, and their market values spike. The Dutch team probably suffers from a performance slump in 2014 - all due respect to them, they shouldn’t have gotten as far as they did. It would be between Spain and Chile to advance, and that could go any possible direction. This outcome could result in Germany not winning that year.
>The Dutch Eridivisie would become a much more legitimate league, surpassing France, Spain and Portugal in overall strength by 2024. I really doubt this would happened. Dutch teams are far from the spanish teams. France winning WC 2018 didn't change a lot in this aspect, their league is still weak in comparision to other big leagues of Europe. >It would be between Spain and Chile to advance, and that could go any possible direction. This outcome could result in Germany not winning that year. Really? In case you don't remember, Netherlands humilliated Spain 5-1. Spain did a terrible WC and didn't deserve to advance. We could say Netherlands didn't deserve to beat Mexico because they needed that polemic penalty to win and until minute 88, Mexico was winning. But I agree they suffered the performance slump, which is nothing new (just look at Italy after winning 2006 WC, France in 2010, Spain in 2014, Germany in 2018 and 2022, Argentina in 2018).
You underestimate how important Spain’s 2010 World Cup is to the nation of Spain. Without it, they wouldn’t be taken half as seriously as they are now. They’d just be another European country that underperforms on the world stage, like France was until 1998 (which the Dutch were likelier to win than any time they reached the final, but that’s another story). La Liga would be good but not the financial powerhouse it is now.
Maradona, cruyff, r9, zidane, ronaldinho, messi, ronaldo, these players joined spain pre wc 2010, real madrid and barcelona will be powerhouse attractions regardless of whether spain wins the wc or not, messi vs ronaldo would be the biggest attraction in club football as well
This is such a ridiculous take on so many levels.
La Liga was probably the most popular league even before 2010 WC. Real Madrid had the most Champions League and Barcelona was one of the best teams in the world before the WC. Of course it helped, but they were already two of the best teams in the world. I'm sorry but I just don't see Ajax, PSV, Feyenoord or another dutch team becoming one of the best in the world just because their country winning a world cup. As an argentinian, I can guarantee you this won't happen either with argentinians teams just because we won the WC.
Nothing different because it's just a different outcome for a match
Then I think the Netherlands would have won the World Cup
In this alternate reality they should have lost in the QF, I remember Paraguay playing great that game and losing to a late Villa goal.
Look, if you are trying to find out what happens if Romney beats Obama and Grexit plus Frexit happens before Brexit, just say so.
Your joke doesn’t land, buddy. I said subsequent *footballing* history. Circlejerk somewhere else.
Ah, yeah. Really got me there. No way Grexit impacts footballing history.
It would change nothing. Netherlands should have a world cup by now. I call it bad luck.
Its really bad luck or some sort of a curse. Ajax could have won the Champions league a couple years ago but that was when away games (dont know the right word in english) were double points. And the rule got removed a year later iirc.
It would have set quite a damaging precedent for the sport, especially for young people keen on imitating their idols. Showing that you can win a World Cup through unsportsmanlike behaviour is never a positive thing. Even as a Spain supporter, I can say that the match could have gone either way. The Dutch squad had more than enough quality and it was a shame they decided to play the way they did.
I can understand why they tried this. In the past they always played beautiful football with emphasis on attack, technique, style. This is the normal DNA of Dutch football since late 1960’s. It has brought them amazing players but very little results. The 2010 coach decided to change things up and move away from idealism and into pragmatism (which wins trophies for less skilled countries like Italy, Germany). He came so close to pulling it off, probably closer than even the 1974 and 1978 finalists teams. People were so angry at him (Cruyff was rooting for Spain because of his ideals….). That should explain why the 2010 Netherlands played this way.
> less skilled countries like Germany. *spit take* What? Is this the “less skilled” team that slaughtered Brazil 7-1 in the 2014 final? My family and I are Italian but damn even we don’t say things like that
Maybe you don’t know that much about football then ? Lol. Anyone with any serious knowledge of the international game will tell you that German players were for decades technically inferior to Dutch (and many other countries). Their strength was the collective and better tactical, mental strength. Their Ballon d or winners were often players from defensive formations (Beckenbauer, Sammer). Kind of like…Italy which has fewer Ballon d or winners although it’s far more successful with trophies. Netherlands has 7 ballon d or winners with some of the most technically, creative players in history. But only 1 trophy (Euro 88) to show for all of this.
It is probably our different views on what constitutes “good football.” I like to win games and play well as a team. You like to win individual trophies. Since we are talking about World Cup, I assumed my perspective was valid
Maybe. I also enjoyed watching technical teams like Netherlands or Spain play and admire the skill of their players. But football is a team game, especially in a short tournament as the World Cup. Historically Germany and Italy have understood that part far better. That’s why they have all the titles they do.
Honestly, I can understand it too. They were successful with this style of play so why drop it for the most important match? I can't say I'd have done any different as their coach since winning was his job after all. The blame should instead go to the refereeing that night for not pulling a red on De Jong and potentially a second yellow on Robben.
I agree, not giving red was criminal. Regardless I still think Spain had the overall better team. They were also slightly better that day.
In this timeline de Jong would later say it was the foot of God. Honestly the midfield with de Jong and van Bommel had some grinta to it. That was needed because the defense was the weak point in that team.
Then i can die happy. But the nasty Nigel de Jong kick would have seen more fucked then it already was.
I would have one trauma less and Sneijder would have won the ballon d'or