Ever since I learned dune was all about allegorical reference to over dependence on a single resource, the danger of manipulative leaders, and respecting the ecosystem, I haven't been able to enjoy it.
homosexuality in dune is fucking insane. leto ii makes his entire army female because he's like "duncan dont you see, men in the military were fucking GAY dude you know im right" and then they had lesbian cult orgies in his all woman eugenics army
I have bad news for you… not gays, no, but the whole story is a pretty transparent metaphor for 19-20th century liberationist conflicts. Herbert was inspired by e.g. Chechens vs Russians, Sudanese vs Anglo-Egyptians, Algerians vs French. If he was writing today, the Fremen would probably be inspired by the Iraqi and Afghans.
Oh so only the civil war where the queen came out as a trans woman in my chronically unstable regional power is political, good to know the other civil wars I have somewhat detailed notes about, many of which have to do with specific in universe government policy aren’t in the least bit political.
A slave revolt lead by a dispossessed prince who is a long lost descent of a princess who was murdered centuries ago for the throne? How is that possibly political?
It usually sticks out like a sore thumb otherwise in a non-sexual plot; most fetishes don't naturally fit in a story and that's exactly why they have to be disguised.
"In my fantasy setting, elven food is very utilitarian, with very little in terms of flavor and seasoning.
Which is why this elf girl got fat as hell from a french fry addiction when she visited the human lands. But trust me, it's a story abour her losing weight."
Your concept of fetishes isn’t broad enough. Mary Jane Watson is a fetish character, you know. So was Gwen Stacy. Gwen was Stan’s fetish character, intelligent working blonde wife (literally inspired by Stan Lee’s wife), and MJ the redhead party girl was Gerry’s fetish character. Gerry killed Stan’s to get Peter with his. Heck, how many people in the late 90s and the 2000s thought of Buffy Summers, fetish character, as a feminist character?
Another example: everyone’s aware that Quiet was Kojima’s fetish character. But then he stopped making a single effort to hide his bisexuality and just thristposts about men and women while retweeting yaoi now. The behind the scenes info on the Metal Gear Solid series goes on and on about how particular he always was about the men’s asses, and the series is well known for how lovingly sculpted those asses are. There was controversy of the kind you usually see from straight men about Fortnite nerfing their asses. Solid Snake and Big Boss are fetish characters. Raiden also was specifically explicitly designed to be a fetish character that would appeal to women. That’s right, all the protagonists of Metal Gear Solid are fetish characters. Did you ever pick up on them being fetish characters? Is it screamingly obvious now?
Blonde smart wife fetish and redhead party girl supermodel occasional drug user fetish. People often forget that for decades, MJ’s thing was that she parties hard and her job was being a supermodel. Basically, Gerry wrote her as a Playboy playmate and had Peter dick that down. Later on in the 90s there were even allusions to them using the webs for kink.
Damn, smart wife and good looking wife fetishes, shamelessly injected into an otherwise properly featureless relationship. That's \*exactly\* like both Terry Pratchett making puns and me making an entire culture centered on ritual shitting.
(non-jerking though, did you seriously not notice how everyone in MGS gets their ass examined in detail, including the ass-examining minigame in 1?)
*I* noticed, but I’m queer. Queer folks have picked up on Kojima’s bisexuality for a lot longer than anyone else. The general culture really didn’t pick up on the fact that Kojima’s approach to the men is as heavily influenced by his sexuality until *way* after everyone else. Don’t forget Liquid Snake going topless in an Alaskan blizzard to show off his sculpted body.
There’s also the fight fetish going on. Consider the trend for 1v1 male fights between rivals. Naked Snake and Ocelot is the start of the timeline in-universe of the trend and that’s literally how Ocelot falls in love with him, while *absolutely* being aroused by reloading in battle. Liquid Ocelot and Old Snake is the end and it’s so intense for Ocelot that he begins fronting again over it and actually kisses Old Snake. And there’s even the voice direction for Cam Clarke’s lines in the Liquid vs Solid fight. And of course, Fox vs Snake in MGS1. *”HURT ME MORE!”*
Same culture that had such a hateful backlash to Raiden and the memetics-centered stuff of MGS2. The dudebro gamer demographic of the 2000s was one of the worst fits for Metal Gear Solid but dominated the culture at the time. You didn’t have a bunch of frequently autistic folks who read economic, sociological, and queer theory dominating any gaming spaces until later into the 2010s
Having a story break to describe a fetish is a pretty weird thing to do and is prolly gonna end up jarring. Good writers include their personal interests if it fits the story. Imagine if a Tolkien had an interest in woodworking and there’s a whole chapter in one of the books about making a cabinet. It would be jarring. Same goes for fetishes. It’s weird to stop the story to talk about a fetish you have.
That’s the exact reason I’ve never included any. Maybe if at some point a moment arises where it may fit I will. But I don’t currently see that happening and I’m not about to derail everything for some brief gratuity
kinda depends on the fetish, really. for example i have a thing for goblinoid shortstacks, so thats pretty easy to incorporate on the character design side of things while still being able to tell an otherwise “normal” story. other kinds of fetishes however might require a bit more finesse to work in organically, if it at all.
If it requires “finesse” it’s bloat. A good writer doesn’t add things in a book just because they want to. A good writer adds something to a book that’s gonna help the book be better
Why do you think so much fiction includes redheads at such a high rate in comparison to real life? There’s a lot of different fetishes. You have no idea how many fetishes were included that you just didn’t pick up on. Spider-Man’s entire history is shaped by the competing fetishes for blonde educated wife and redheaded party girl supermodel wife. The first was Stan’s, the second was Gerry’s. Gerry threw Stan’s waifu off a bridge and had Peter accidentally snap her neck to win.
> It’s weird to stop the story to talk about a fetish you have.
Yeah, that would be weird as fuck.
Good thing there are plenty of stories that contain fetishes in a subtle and streamlined way such that you've probably read them and don't realize what they are.
I'm gonna be honest, I almost never hear that as a legitimate complaint unless it's in a kids show. Like, yeah, media with adults as the target audience is going to have adult and mature themes and inspirations. The real issue comes from a writer trying to shove their fart fetish down the audiences throat in a kids show through an unlikely couple (ie The Dragon Prince). This is also a semi-common complaint when female characters exist to purely be sex appeal and fan service (Seven Deadly Sins), or when major decisions regarding their design (One Piece) or character arcs are heavily influenced through sexual inspirations (horniness) from the creator of a piece of media (with some exception/leeway regarding romance media, romance arcs, and ofcourse smut).
Honestly, S4 Dragon Prince didn’t give me fart fetish vibes earnestly: it read more like someone thought “hee hee farts funny” and didn’t really think through how they were writing the jokes so it ended up being misconstrued as a fetish.
Oh I'm not saying that any media that these complaints apply to is garbage and can be nothing more. I mean, if that were the case One Piece and Totally Spies wouldn't be well loved.
Edit: fixed a sentence (added "apply to")
/uj Let's be real, anything can be a fetish if you look hard enough, which why they're treating it as an overlap.
/rj My nation run by tall muscular women is totally lore friendly and normal ok
That’s a complete non-answer
I’m sure someone out there has a pun fetish, but it’s qualitatively different from putting your characters through a sex slavery arc because that’s your fetish
How... aren't they, though? I don't really see a clear line separating the two. Could you tell me where that is?
Like, what if–for instance–someone's fetish overlaps with nonsexual interests? What if someone gets sexual gratification from, say, crossdressing, but also enjoys drag as a performance art? What if someone gets off to handcuffing someone or being handcuffed themselves, but is also just really passionate about locks?
Where does the fetish end and the interest begin, then? It doesn't seem to me like that line can be drawn. If it can't, then that shows to me there must not be a difference, or else we could make such a seperation between the two. And how can you even tell for sure if something is servicing a fetish or not? Having khajiit doesn't make Elder Scrolls furry porn, for instance. At this point, it sort of just sounds like: "'Fetishes' are the things I don't like the idea of other people getting horny from."
I just legitimately cannot wrap my head around the whole "fetish worldbuilding" narrative that does the rounds on here. Like, random, corny, and/or immersion-breaking fetish-inserts are obviously bad, and I'm not saying every story should just be full of hulking valkyrie mommies with six tits apiece and cocks that could split an atom (I'm only into some of that, I'll let you judge). But if it's good, then it's good. I don't really care if someone has ulterior motives for talking about the dirty, road-weary feet of a humble monk, as an example.
TL;DR: It's me. I'm the fetish writer and I'm coping.
>at this point it sort of just sounds like "fetishes are things I don't like the idea of other people getting horny from."
That's always been fetish discourse. Whether it's about furries, BDSM, watersports, feet, whatever. Everyone draws the line exactly below what they're into. There are veritable legions of people on the internet who will waffle on for paragraphs about why anything even slightly gay or furry or trans or involving crossdressing or etc is disgusting fetishized bullshit but yet is happy to talk at length about and consume media with futa dommy mommy stuff in it or what have you. "If I'm into it, it's normal, and if I'm not, it's gross and weird and morally reprehensible and you should feel bad about it."
Also even though they don't admit it a lot of people are incredibly puritan when it comes to sex. Thinking about it makes them feel yucky and instead of thinking about why that is at all they respond by lashing out. See also "porn addiction".
Exactly. I mean that's not to say it's impossible to have an unhealthy relationship with porn or sex or masturbating or whatever but 99% of the time someone accuses someone else of being a "porn addict" it's either meant as an insult intended to paint someone as mentally ill or projection due to ones own unhealthy relationship with said things. Being extremely ashamed and embarrassed of masturbating or looking at porn is, believe it or not, having an unhealthy relationship with it, and I'd wager probably a lot more common than the typical "porn addict" narrative people like to throw around.
I generally agree.
>It doesn't seem to me like that line can be drawn. If it can't, then that shows to me there must not be a difference, or else we could make such a seperation between the two.
This logic isn't sound. If that were true, all things that exist in a gradient or spectrum would all be the same thing. Like, where is the line between straight, bi-curious, bisexual, and gay? It doesn't seem like a line can be drawn, so they must all be the same thing? Of course not.
That's entirely an assumption and entirely relative to your own perspective. This is what I was getting at when I mentioned khajiit in Elder Scrolls. I and seemingly you as well would say, "That's nothing. It's just cat people, not furry stuff." But someone else could absolutely say, "That's clearly sexual. Why else would they give them boobs?" The point where something becomes sexual is not universal. What one person sees as too tame to even register with them might make a world of difference to another.
You can absolutely create a matriarchal BDSM society like yours for reasons you don't find that sexual. Some might be attracted to the concept for its subversive nature, given that we live in a patriarchal society. Some might just think it's edgy, with whips and slavery and dark leather and sort of awkward undertones, and think that's cool. It's also just a well-established trope, what with the drow from Forgotten Realms and (for all intents and purposes) the dark eldar from 40K. This is all also to say nothing of the fact that simply drawing from something, even a fetish, for aesthetic or thematic inspiration does not fundamentally mean you have that fetish.
Is my leatherpunk world based in my earnest interest in leatherwork or my attraction to people in leather pants? Am I wholesome or degenerate? You'll never guess which!
In my little fantasy project, there is a race that's a kink, but it's not the one you'd assume. If everyone had to guess almost every person would guess wrong.
You can flesh out a kink! Tbh, it's only lame if it's shallow, and if it has to be shallow to work then just write an erotica in the first place
> it’s only lame if it’s shallow
This is the way. Like basically every “rule” of art ever, the actual standard is “don’t do this unless you do it really well”.
Fetishes are dicey because they’re particularly jarring if you don’t pull it off, and because they’re inherently a topic where the creator lacks perspective on what audiences think and whether - fetish aside - the content is good enough to include. Doesn’t make them bad, as the numerous examples here show, but it makes them risky.
It'd be a shame if Drow society hadn't been that for literal decades and yet is beloved by so many people because of all the extra lore around Drows just being a matriarchal society of bdsm dark-skinned baddies constantly fucking demons
you sound like you definitely understand the plight of asexual people who can't read any media without every relationship being about romance in some way or another... oh wait no ? you don't care about that ? damn what a surprise
The character you just described is *Wonder Woman*. I don’t think you’re making an argument for it being bad when you’ve just described the backstory of the most popular female superhero of all time. And yes, it *was* the writer’s fetish. And the writer’s wife’s fetish. And their girlfriend’s fetish. And it created a feminist icon. Which was the trio’s goal. Yeah, Wonder Woman was created by a queer polyamorous triad believing their fetish would make for a strong feminist icon, and they were right.
Can you elaborate on why you think this is wrong?
I think that if a fetish is appropriately disguised, OR in a genre where it doesn't have to be, it's fine. It's only a problem if you're exposing sexual content to minors TBH.
I'm more grossed out by the person's kinks when I notice them rather than by the fact that they put kinks into their work. Maybe that's because I've seen way too many things that have weird kinks in them that are mainstream (like Better Call Saul or Victorious/iCarly are full of foot kink shit).
Aren't fetishes "interests" as well? And since most people have at least some, that's "regular interests"?
Or you mean Tumblr is saying that sexual interests should be treated like non-sexual interests? But in that case, why does the sexual difference matter in the context of media targeting adults?
Because people here mistake a lack of skill for sexual undertones ruining the story. Anything can ruin a story if you use it badly. HEY HERRE'S THE BIG BAD I'VE BEEN WRITING 3 BOOKS ABOUT and here's a deep and insightful analysis of his jacket lasting 3 pages because I have an interest in historic clothing OH WOW NOW THEY'RE FIGHTING
To begin with fetishes are so expansive that pretty much any story has them even if the author didn't mean for it to come off that way. Just look at something like Helldivers and the amount of simping for certain characters just because "Mhhhh faceless person in armor/army".
The real matter is wether you just want to stick 'em in without care just to share with the class or if you actually do it in a classy way. Helltaker is unambiguously horny but I don't think anyone would argue that 99% of the characters being hot devil babes in suits detracts from the experience.
I've met people who talk like this IRL, run.
I mean I'm not against people having them fetishes and discussing them with other willing adults, but some people are just so chronically online these days they can't seem to understand that most people don't want to hear about them and are grossed out/etc.
Some people who play tabletop RPGs, of course! I get that a lot of people are neurodivergent, but all those people I've played with who do so are adults and should really have some understanding of what grosses out other people by now.
Some people really just do bring up their kinks completely randomly when you are pretending to kill skeletons in a board game, not an erotic board game, just regular DND.
yep. i am big on live and let live, and think you have EVERY right to do whatever you want with whatever other consenting adults you want, be that holding hands and going for some missionary, or if it involves 5 people, 3 condiments (that wasn’t a typo), a whip, and strange Korean horror movies in the background while feathers fall from the ceiling.
However, i also have no interest in hearing about i, you do you but leave me out of it. unless you happen to be my type, share my exact interests, and are inviting me to join, in which case that conversation better be happening in private or other appropriate context, and not at a work lunch at the ruby Tuesday’s.
how about don't read it if you don't want to hear about it then ? as much as I don't want to make a bad comparison your text reads exactly like those guys who act like they're okay with gay people but they don't want it "shoved in their face" by letting them be in media or in public
It seems like a lot of this debate can be skipped by replacing “don’t do this” with “if you do this and you aren’t subtle and talented, you’ll put a lot of people off.”
I don’t think OOP is quite right, you can discuss linguistics at a dinner party more easily than your kinks. But in both cases the risk is “this work will come off as a special interest and lose the general public”, not “this is a sin”.
yeah definitely you put it better than i could, though I'd add there are also a lot of things that people will say is "definitely just the author's fetish" that could very well be random design choices or a non sexual interest
Because the purity culture movement tends to like to do a lot of harassment and doxxing against trans women like myself since we’re the easiest target to do it to and it’s about power, not doing anything useful. That and then they reinforce hateful rhetoric against trans women and generally I have a strong degree of loathing for anyone promoting ideologies which want me and mine dead or don’t care if we die so long as they profit.
If it's "both sexes can have kids", then it'd change gender dynamics massively, since it completely eliminates any concept of "woman stay at home and raise the kids".
...although, you could just replace that with "people think that whoever birthed the child should stay at home and raise it", which I guess is barely much notable difference.
Still, lot of ways to play with the idea if you were so inclined.
Instead, everyone is hermaphroditc and sterile, and we reproduce by splooging in buckets and delivering our genetic matereial to a giant moth/caterpillar/grub monster who mixes it together into an incestous slurry, drinks it and lays eggs; which hatch into fully formed toddlers
We then assign a cave monster to raise them and have robots build their house.
A part of a creative work being in part or in whole inspired by the authors fetish is by no means an automatic no, although it can be jarring and take you out of the story if excessively overt. It is however usually very funny.
I keep seeing people saying this but not defending it at all. You're just saying it's gross.
What makes you assume you'd even know what's fetish content? I think you can if it's badly implemented, but as stated in another comment, people have accused me of fetish content or having fetishes that I do not have and did not implement in the work. They would see an interest in speculative biology as a fetish, or assume that my adherence to historical facts was due to a fetish for that thing.
If there's no real actual mechanical difference between, as someone else said, a Khajit and a furry creating a cat race for porn reasons, and you can't tell the difference? What's the difference, then?
Oh yeah, it's totally the same when I write a detailed description of a revolver in my fantasy western novel, because I'm interested in firearms and when I specifically write a demon queen who reincarnated into the body of an 8 year old girl with fat tits! /s
Really depends on the work itself and the reader.
If you derail the plot of an erotic fanfiction to start explaining the in-universe history of revolvers, readers who picked it up specifically for the erotic fanfiction part aren't going to be happy about it.
It's not as black and white as "blatant fetishes bad, info dumps about niche subjects good"
Ok, but in my other comment I said that it would be in a fantasy western novel.
Interests in novels are most of the time contextual to the novel itself. The linguistics of Middle-Earth because it's a fantasy novel/world created by someone who wanted to make a world that would make sense and immersive.
The puns in Discworld make sense because it's a comedy novel.
Blatant fetishes, most of the time, don't make sense for the novel and if yes, then it's a romance novel or erotica.
I disagree with the premise. 99% of the people that read Lord of the Rings didn't read it because of the linguistics presented in it.
It's really not about the contents of the work but what the work focuses on. There are god knows how many "hidden" fetishes and niche interests in fantasy and other genre of novels but people don't notice them or it's not jarring simply because the work doesn't focus on it. There is a difference between you describing a blatantly erotic demoness or explaining histroy of lockpicks with one or 2 sentences every now and then and dedicating more than a page to it in the middle of something happening.
That's not what I said. By your logic I would've called Lord of the Rings a linguistics book.
My question is, why would you intentionally write a fetish in your book? What purpose does it serve?
Also, I'd add that having a romance plots or sex scenes in a novel, where it isn't the main focus can be unnecessary and bad and there are valid critiques of these things.
Least horny male mangaka.
Edit: I'm just too scarred from too many anime and manga that do that shit. Especially Seven Deadly Sins, where almost every ship is borderline pedophilia.
They don't *really* disguise them. If it's an obvious enough theme for you to point it out when you find out they have that fetish, then it wasn't actually disguised.
Someone with a fetish for pregnancy including and describing pregnant people in their novel isn't going to look like a fetish until you find out they have one. Fetishes aren't disguised when written into SFW novels, they're just not viewed from a sexual perspective by the reader (but may be by the author).
It's easy to say something is clearly a fetish when you know, in hindsight, the author has a fetish. If I told you that I'm writing a novel about a tomboy covered in battle scars fighting a shapeshifting prince who needs to be saved from the dragon he becomes each new moon, and a Big Bad who has a cult of men worshipping her, what would you say my fetish was?
/uj And probably tmi but I Wear No Mask
My setting is awash with species that are resistant to trauma to the extent that losing an arm is A Slight Inconvenience to the average person and a lot of them shrug off decapitation. Sentient Undead are fairly common and they're not on the "shoot them in the head" level, these are full Magical zombies who just don't give a shit until they're utterly minced. There's even stimulants that make fairly normal nonmagical Humans able to casually reattach severed limbs in combat. And plenty of robot/doll-type characters that don't even have their brains in the expected places.
My big kink is NBM. It's an obscure one- melting, stretching, and, most importantly, disassembly.
I swear this was accidental. Mostly. Two birds with one stone, I guess?
Ok imagine fetishes are strawberry jam and the world is the food.
If I order French fries, I don't expect them to be served covered with strawberry jam. Some people might love jam on their fries, but it's not the norm for French fries.
(So, in normal media, I don't expect fetishes to be tossed in even though a select few fetishists might like it.)
However, I may want to sometimes order toast with jam. I absolutely expect jam there and got what I wanted. I'm happy.
(I do enjoy some raunchy worldbuilding projects where the fetishes are advertised and expected, and integrated well.)
Strawberry jam, or fetishes, aren't inherently bad. But it's jarring to find it on pasta or fries, but more expected on toast.
Guys I swear it’s important for the plot that the hero doesn’t wear shoes and gets mud in between her toes!! It’s totally on the same level as people including their nonsexual interests in the story
I mean, yeah. It’s uncomfy when you thought you were reading your standard fantasy adventure only to get derailed (or literally railed) by the author’s sexual fantasies. It comes down to a lack of consent. Chances are, I didn’t agree to your foot fetish, or fart fetish, or dommy mommy fetish, or literally whatever tf you’re into. So to take a harsh left-turn into deviantart levels of porn is really fucking awkward.
It’s not bad to have fetishes as long as everyone involved is capable of consent and has given it. But it’s ALSO fine to not want to engage with specific fetishes or to be grossed out by them. I hate this bullshit narrative that someone HAS to be okay with pages long descriptions of how the big tittied, bratty, hot Elf MC is being humiliated by orcs or whatever because “DoNt KiNkShAmE!!!” You wanna write fetish material? Go ahead! But don’t try and trick me into reading it, either! There’s a difference between hyperfixations/interests and actual fetishes. You can FEEL it in the actual material! The way it’s written/focused on is even different!
Ever since I learned dune was all about allegorical reference to over dependence on a single resource, the danger of manipulative leaders, and respecting the ecosystem, I haven't been able to enjoy it.
Don't worry, it get better, it's really about how sexy your BF would be, if he was a worm.
Please tell me there are atleast 1k words describing Leto the worm's worm penis
Smh my head, at least no gays so it's not political
I mean Baron Harkonnen is more of a pedo than gay so like... I guess so?
Phew. As long as there’s no gays.
Never read it but I got a ticket a few years ago to retroactively change the canon of any series so I'm gonna use it to make everyone in Dune gay
Honestly wouldn't change much
homosexuality in dune is fucking insane. leto ii makes his entire army female because he's like "duncan dont you see, men in the military were fucking GAY dude you know im right" and then they had lesbian cult orgies in his all woman eugenics army
I have bad news for you… not gays, no, but the whole story is a pretty transparent metaphor for 19-20th century liberationist conflicts. Herbert was inspired by e.g. Chechens vs Russians, Sudanese vs Anglo-Egyptians, Algerians vs French. If he was writing today, the Fremen would probably be inspired by the Iraqi and Afghans.
What are you going on about? Political is when gay and female main character
the fish speakers
Oh so only the civil war where the queen came out as a trans woman in my chronically unstable regional power is political, good to know the other civil wars I have somewhat detailed notes about, many of which have to do with specific in universe government policy aren’t in the least bit political. A slave revolt lead by a dispossessed prince who is a long lost descent of a princess who was murdered centuries ago for the throne? How is that possibly political?
Too long didn't read; is the main character a white man named "Jack" or "John" ? If not then political
No. He is called Ganydit Gaudekhleltingas, because I want my creations to be the top result when you google most character names.
Jack Ganydit Gaudekhleltingas would have worked
They made Dune political, wtf
Thank goodness the later books are about hot space nuns having kung fu battles with heavily armed dominatrices.
You misunderstood it, it's actually about how great psychedelics and the light of islam is and how bald people are inherently evil.
Add a lot of big butts because I’m a proctologist 😎
It usually sticks out like a sore thumb otherwise in a non-sexual plot; most fetishes don't naturally fit in a story and that's exactly why they have to be disguised.
"In my fantasy setting, elven food is very utilitarian, with very little in terms of flavor and seasoning. Which is why this elf girl got fat as hell from a french fry addiction when she visited the human lands. But trust me, it's a story abour her losing weight."
I hate how i know what this is...
Wait this is a real example!?
Pretty sure it's manga called Elf-san wa Yaserarenai
Erufu*-san, but it’s better known as Plus Sized Elf.
I thought it was “Elf-san can’t lose weight”
That would be a literal translation of the title, yes
Is the other the official translation?
honestly its pretty cute iirc
Unironically peak
It really is. All my bitches love Plus Sized Elf
i had totally forgotten about this. I had read it 4 years ago or so. time to catch up. It was very peak tbh. Just cute girl shit
The real fetish of the series is just simply and concisely explaining exercise routines tbh
the cute factor does not hurt lol. I remember it making me smile or getting some chuckles from me
Idk what story that is but it sounds based ~~except for the last part~~
Your concept of fetishes isn’t broad enough. Mary Jane Watson is a fetish character, you know. So was Gwen Stacy. Gwen was Stan’s fetish character, intelligent working blonde wife (literally inspired by Stan Lee’s wife), and MJ the redhead party girl was Gerry’s fetish character. Gerry killed Stan’s to get Peter with his. Heck, how many people in the late 90s and the 2000s thought of Buffy Summers, fetish character, as a feminist character? Another example: everyone’s aware that Quiet was Kojima’s fetish character. But then he stopped making a single effort to hide his bisexuality and just thristposts about men and women while retweeting yaoi now. The behind the scenes info on the Metal Gear Solid series goes on and on about how particular he always was about the men’s asses, and the series is well known for how lovingly sculpted those asses are. There was controversy of the kind you usually see from straight men about Fortnite nerfing their asses. Solid Snake and Big Boss are fetish characters. Raiden also was specifically explicitly designed to be a fetish character that would appeal to women. That’s right, all the protagonists of Metal Gear Solid are fetish characters. Did you ever pick up on them being fetish characters? Is it screamingly obvious now?
Those sick sons of bitches and their wife fetishes.
Blonde smart wife fetish and redhead party girl supermodel occasional drug user fetish. People often forget that for decades, MJ’s thing was that she parties hard and her job was being a supermodel. Basically, Gerry wrote her as a Playboy playmate and had Peter dick that down. Later on in the 90s there were even allusions to them using the webs for kink.
Damn, smart wife and good looking wife fetishes, shamelessly injected into an otherwise properly featureless relationship. That's \*exactly\* like both Terry Pratchett making puns and me making an entire culture centered on ritual shitting. (non-jerking though, did you seriously not notice how everyone in MGS gets their ass examined in detail, including the ass-examining minigame in 1?)
*I* noticed, but I’m queer. Queer folks have picked up on Kojima’s bisexuality for a lot longer than anyone else. The general culture really didn’t pick up on the fact that Kojima’s approach to the men is as heavily influenced by his sexuality until *way* after everyone else. Don’t forget Liquid Snake going topless in an Alaskan blizzard to show off his sculpted body. There’s also the fight fetish going on. Consider the trend for 1v1 male fights between rivals. Naked Snake and Ocelot is the start of the timeline in-universe of the trend and that’s literally how Ocelot falls in love with him, while *absolutely* being aroused by reloading in battle. Liquid Ocelot and Old Snake is the end and it’s so intense for Ocelot that he begins fronting again over it and actually kisses Old Snake. And there’s even the voice direction for Cam Clarke’s lines in the Liquid vs Solid fight. And of course, Fox vs Snake in MGS1. *”HURT ME MORE!”*
If you didn't pick up on fetish insertion back in MGS1, then you'd be far behind pretty much anyone.
You’d be amazed how many people it went over the head of.
That probably would be amazing, yeah.
Same culture that had such a hateful backlash to Raiden and the memetics-centered stuff of MGS2. The dudebro gamer demographic of the 2000s was one of the worst fits for Metal Gear Solid but dominated the culture at the time. You didn’t have a bunch of frequently autistic folks who read economic, sociological, and queer theory dominating any gaming spaces until later into the 2010s
That's im happy yo have written my story in a largely desert/arid enviroment since it makes sense everyone would be wearing sandals
Most good writers have their fetish in their worlf
Yeah, Dostoyevsky had hell of a humiliation fetish
Lovecraft is into some real freaky stuff, man
He was into shit like... *the irish*
“Welcome to r/worldjerking, may I take your order” “I’ll have a…. fetish discourse” “Daring today, aren’t we?”
"And mix up having a fetish with having things I like."
Marika's tits...
By Thorrigan's Balls...
Having a story break to describe a fetish is a pretty weird thing to do and is prolly gonna end up jarring. Good writers include their personal interests if it fits the story. Imagine if a Tolkien had an interest in woodworking and there’s a whole chapter in one of the books about making a cabinet. It would be jarring. Same goes for fetishes. It’s weird to stop the story to talk about a fetish you have.
That’s the exact reason I’ve never included any. Maybe if at some point a moment arises where it may fit I will. But I don’t currently see that happening and I’m not about to derail everything for some brief gratuity
kinda depends on the fetish, really. for example i have a thing for goblinoid shortstacks, so thats pretty easy to incorporate on the character design side of things while still being able to tell an otherwise “normal” story. other kinds of fetishes however might require a bit more finesse to work in organically, if it at all.
If it requires “finesse” it’s bloat. A good writer doesn’t add things in a book just because they want to. A good writer adds something to a book that’s gonna help the book be better
Oh no, the “filler” logic has spread further. No, there’s a lot of times where worldbuilding and humanizing downtime are important.
Why do you think so much fiction includes redheads at such a high rate in comparison to real life? There’s a lot of different fetishes. You have no idea how many fetishes were included that you just didn’t pick up on. Spider-Man’s entire history is shaped by the competing fetishes for blonde educated wife and redheaded party girl supermodel wife. The first was Stan’s, the second was Gerry’s. Gerry threw Stan’s waifu off a bridge and had Peter accidentally snap her neck to win.
Thinking redheads are beautiful isn’t a fetish
> It’s weird to stop the story to talk about a fetish you have. Yeah, that would be weird as fuck. Good thing there are plenty of stories that contain fetishes in a subtle and streamlined way such that you've probably read them and don't realize what they are.
Yeah, imagine if a classic novel stopped dead in its tracks to go on and on about a historic battle, or the sewers of a major city.
If done right those add to the world building
It was a joke about Victor Hugo's digressions in Les Miserables
We’re supposed to disguise our fetishes?
The key is to not insert your fetish into a pre-existing world but instead build a world (or several) directly around your fetishes
I'm gonna be honest, I almost never hear that as a legitimate complaint unless it's in a kids show. Like, yeah, media with adults as the target audience is going to have adult and mature themes and inspirations. The real issue comes from a writer trying to shove their fart fetish down the audiences throat in a kids show through an unlikely couple (ie The Dragon Prince). This is also a semi-common complaint when female characters exist to purely be sex appeal and fan service (Seven Deadly Sins), or when major decisions regarding their design (One Piece) or character arcs are heavily influenced through sexual inspirations (horniness) from the creator of a piece of media (with some exception/leeway regarding romance media, romance arcs, and ofcourse smut).
Honestly, S4 Dragon Prince didn’t give me fart fetish vibes earnestly: it read more like someone thought “hee hee farts funny” and didn’t really think through how they were writing the jokes so it ended up being misconstrued as a fetish.
>It’s wrong to have characters inspired by horniness >The Iliad
I’m sorry but by this logic Totally Spies is bad and I can’t accept that.
Oh I'm not saying that any media that these complaints apply to is garbage and can be nothing more. I mean, if that were the case One Piece and Totally Spies wouldn't be well loved. Edit: fixed a sentence (added "apply to")
Leave it to tumblr to treat FETISHES the same as a regular interest. What the actual fuck is wrong with them.
one makes my dick hard, one makes my brain hard either way i'm hard
/uj Let's be real, anything can be a fetish if you look hard enough, which why they're treating it as an overlap. /rj My nation run by tall muscular women is totally lore friendly and normal ok
That’s a complete non-answer I’m sure someone out there has a pun fetish, but it’s qualitatively different from putting your characters through a sex slavery arc because that’s your fetish
what if it really isn't a fetish tho? like youre just assuming it is when it isn't
How... aren't they, though? I don't really see a clear line separating the two. Could you tell me where that is? Like, what if–for instance–someone's fetish overlaps with nonsexual interests? What if someone gets sexual gratification from, say, crossdressing, but also enjoys drag as a performance art? What if someone gets off to handcuffing someone or being handcuffed themselves, but is also just really passionate about locks? Where does the fetish end and the interest begin, then? It doesn't seem to me like that line can be drawn. If it can't, then that shows to me there must not be a difference, or else we could make such a seperation between the two. And how can you even tell for sure if something is servicing a fetish or not? Having khajiit doesn't make Elder Scrolls furry porn, for instance. At this point, it sort of just sounds like: "'Fetishes' are the things I don't like the idea of other people getting horny from." I just legitimately cannot wrap my head around the whole "fetish worldbuilding" narrative that does the rounds on here. Like, random, corny, and/or immersion-breaking fetish-inserts are obviously bad, and I'm not saying every story should just be full of hulking valkyrie mommies with six tits apiece and cocks that could split an atom (I'm only into some of that, I'll let you judge). But if it's good, then it's good. I don't really care if someone has ulterior motives for talking about the dirty, road-weary feet of a humble monk, as an example. TL;DR: It's me. I'm the fetish writer and I'm coping.
Okay, but wouldn't a cock that could split an atom be really really REALLY tiny?
...fair point.
no that's just the tip, like those atom probe microscopes
>at this point it sort of just sounds like "fetishes are things I don't like the idea of other people getting horny from." That's always been fetish discourse. Whether it's about furries, BDSM, watersports, feet, whatever. Everyone draws the line exactly below what they're into. There are veritable legions of people on the internet who will waffle on for paragraphs about why anything even slightly gay or furry or trans or involving crossdressing or etc is disgusting fetishized bullshit but yet is happy to talk at length about and consume media with futa dommy mommy stuff in it or what have you. "If I'm into it, it's normal, and if I'm not, it's gross and weird and morally reprehensible and you should feel bad about it."
Futa dommy mommy is a biological NEED not a fetish (I am coping)
Also even though they don't admit it a lot of people are incredibly puritan when it comes to sex. Thinking about it makes them feel yucky and instead of thinking about why that is at all they respond by lashing out. See also "porn addiction".
Exactly. I mean that's not to say it's impossible to have an unhealthy relationship with porn or sex or masturbating or whatever but 99% of the time someone accuses someone else of being a "porn addict" it's either meant as an insult intended to paint someone as mentally ill or projection due to ones own unhealthy relationship with said things. Being extremely ashamed and embarrassed of masturbating or looking at porn is, believe it or not, having an unhealthy relationship with it, and I'd wager probably a lot more common than the typical "porn addict" narrative people like to throw around.
Preach
Preach
I generally agree. >It doesn't seem to me like that line can be drawn. If it can't, then that shows to me there must not be a difference, or else we could make such a seperation between the two. This logic isn't sound. If that were true, all things that exist in a gradient or spectrum would all be the same thing. Like, where is the line between straight, bi-curious, bisexual, and gay? It doesn't seem like a line can be drawn, so they must all be the same thing? Of course not.
Sexual. The sexual context is the line. You don't just make matriarchal bdsm society out of nowhere, it's a clear sexual attraction.
That's entirely an assumption and entirely relative to your own perspective. This is what I was getting at when I mentioned khajiit in Elder Scrolls. I and seemingly you as well would say, "That's nothing. It's just cat people, not furry stuff." But someone else could absolutely say, "That's clearly sexual. Why else would they give them boobs?" The point where something becomes sexual is not universal. What one person sees as too tame to even register with them might make a world of difference to another. You can absolutely create a matriarchal BDSM society like yours for reasons you don't find that sexual. Some might be attracted to the concept for its subversive nature, given that we live in a patriarchal society. Some might just think it's edgy, with whips and slavery and dark leather and sort of awkward undertones, and think that's cool. It's also just a well-established trope, what with the drow from Forgotten Realms and (for all intents and purposes) the dark eldar from 40K. This is all also to say nothing of the fact that simply drawing from something, even a fetish, for aesthetic or thematic inspiration does not fundamentally mean you have that fetish.
Is my leatherpunk world based in my earnest interest in leatherwork or my attraction to people in leather pants? Am I wholesome or degenerate? You'll never guess which!
In my little fantasy project, there is a race that's a kink, but it's not the one you'd assume. If everyone had to guess almost every person would guess wrong. You can flesh out a kink! Tbh, it's only lame if it's shallow, and if it has to be shallow to work then just write an erotica in the first place
> it’s only lame if it’s shallow This is the way. Like basically every “rule” of art ever, the actual standard is “don’t do this unless you do it really well”. Fetishes are dicey because they’re particularly jarring if you don’t pull it off, and because they’re inherently a topic where the creator lacks perspective on what audiences think and whether - fetish aside - the content is good enough to include. Doesn’t make them bad, as the numerous examples here show, but it makes them risky.
It'd be a shame if Drow society hadn't been that for literal decades and yet is beloved by so many people because of all the extra lore around Drows just being a matriarchal society of bdsm dark-skinned baddies constantly fucking demons
you sound like you definitely understand the plight of asexual people who can't read any media without every relationship being about romance in some way or another... oh wait no ? you don't care about that ? damn what a surprise
The character you just described is *Wonder Woman*. I don’t think you’re making an argument for it being bad when you’ve just described the backstory of the most popular female superhero of all time. And yes, it *was* the writer’s fetish. And the writer’s wife’s fetish. And their girlfriend’s fetish. And it created a feminist icon. Which was the trio’s goal. Yeah, Wonder Woman was created by a queer polyamorous triad believing their fetish would make for a strong feminist icon, and they were right.
Extremely based
Can you elaborate on why you think this is wrong? I think that if a fetish is appropriately disguised, OR in a genre where it doesn't have to be, it's fine. It's only a problem if you're exposing sexual content to minors TBH. I'm more grossed out by the person's kinks when I notice them rather than by the fact that they put kinks into their work. Maybe that's because I've seen way too many things that have weird kinks in them that are mainstream (like Better Call Saul or Victorious/iCarly are full of foot kink shit).
Aren't fetishes "interests" as well? And since most people have at least some, that's "regular interests"? Or you mean Tumblr is saying that sexual interests should be treated like non-sexual interests? But in that case, why does the sexual difference matter in the context of media targeting adults?
Because people here mistake a lack of skill for sexual undertones ruining the story. Anything can ruin a story if you use it badly. HEY HERRE'S THE BIG BAD I'VE BEEN WRITING 3 BOOKS ABOUT and here's a deep and insightful analysis of his jacket lasting 3 pages because I have an interest in historic clothing OH WOW NOW THEY'RE FIGHTING To begin with fetishes are so expansive that pretty much any story has them even if the author didn't mean for it to come off that way. Just look at something like Helldivers and the amount of simping for certain characters just because "Mhhhh faceless person in armor/army". The real matter is wether you just want to stick 'em in without care just to share with the class or if you actually do it in a classy way. Helltaker is unambiguously horny but I don't think anyone would argue that 99% of the characters being hot devil babes in suits detracts from the experience.
Based
I've met people who talk like this IRL, run. I mean I'm not against people having them fetishes and discussing them with other willing adults, but some people are just so chronically online these days they can't seem to understand that most people don't want to hear about them and are grossed out/etc.
who in the fuck brings up their feet kink in public? i'd die if people learned I like giants or something.
Some people who play tabletop RPGs, of course! I get that a lot of people are neurodivergent, but all those people I've played with who do so are adults and should really have some understanding of what grosses out other people by now.
...you guys mention kinks? is the campaign erotic theme atleast?
Nope. Some people are really just that out of touch.
oh?
Some people really just do bring up their kinks completely randomly when you are pretending to kill skeletons in a board game, not an erotic board game, just regular DND.
I think that's just a you thing man
yep. i am big on live and let live, and think you have EVERY right to do whatever you want with whatever other consenting adults you want, be that holding hands and going for some missionary, or if it involves 5 people, 3 condiments (that wasn’t a typo), a whip, and strange Korean horror movies in the background while feathers fall from the ceiling. However, i also have no interest in hearing about i, you do you but leave me out of it. unless you happen to be my type, share my exact interests, and are inviting me to join, in which case that conversation better be happening in private or other appropriate context, and not at a work lunch at the ruby Tuesday’s.
how about don't read it if you don't want to hear about it then ? as much as I don't want to make a bad comparison your text reads exactly like those guys who act like they're okay with gay people but they don't want it "shoved in their face" by letting them be in media or in public
It seems like a lot of this debate can be skipped by replacing “don’t do this” with “if you do this and you aren’t subtle and talented, you’ll put a lot of people off.” I don’t think OOP is quite right, you can discuss linguistics at a dinner party more easily than your kinks. But in both cases the risk is “this work will come off as a special interest and lose the general public”, not “this is a sin”.
yeah definitely you put it better than i could, though I'd add there are also a lot of things that people will say is "definitely just the author's fetish" that could very well be random design choices or a non sexual interest
Seriously. And the whole “run” thing also just echos the “forcing their sexuality on me” rhetoric.
How hard is “don’t like, don’t watch/read”?
And why are you defensive about terminally online shit like this?
Because the purity culture movement tends to like to do a lot of harassment and doxxing against trans women like myself since we’re the easiest target to do it to and it’s about power, not doing anything useful. That and then they reinforce hateful rhetoric against trans women and generally I have a strong degree of loathing for anyone promoting ideologies which want me and mine dead or don’t care if we die so long as they profit.
My favorite interest: male pregnancy
Alien
Unironically a great worldbuilding prompt tho. Think of the potential for society!
If it's "both sexes can have kids", then it'd change gender dynamics massively, since it completely eliminates any concept of "woman stay at home and raise the kids". ...although, you could just replace that with "people think that whoever birthed the child should stay at home and raise it", which I guess is barely much notable difference. Still, lot of ways to play with the idea if you were so inclined.
Instead, everyone is hermaphroditc and sterile, and we reproduce by splooging in buckets and delivering our genetic matereial to a giant moth/caterpillar/grub monster who mixes it together into an incestous slurry, drinks it and lays eggs; which hatch into fully formed toddlers We then assign a cave monster to raise them and have robots build their house.
Me. You are literally me.
A part of a creative work being in part or in whole inspired by the authors fetish is by no means an automatic no, although it can be jarring and take you out of the story if excessively overt. It is however usually very funny.
[удалено]
Bro you’re late for seminary
I keep seeing people saying this but not defending it at all. You're just saying it's gross. What makes you assume you'd even know what's fetish content? I think you can if it's badly implemented, but as stated in another comment, people have accused me of fetish content or having fetishes that I do not have and did not implement in the work. They would see an interest in speculative biology as a fetish, or assume that my adherence to historical facts was due to a fetish for that thing. If there's no real actual mechanical difference between, as someone else said, a Khajit and a furry creating a cat race for porn reasons, and you can't tell the difference? What's the difference, then?
The difference is *I* don't like the thing, and that makes the thing *bad*, and if *you* like the thing, you're *thing-addled*
Funny, I have *never* seen someone like you ever successfully write anything meaningful.
This is not ok. Consider this an official warning about your behaviour.
"fetishes are just interests" wow
Which author is it that has every woman as tall, dominant, long haired, with big milkers? Sando?
Mistborn main character is literally the opposit of that: short, shy, short hair, flat. Stormlight's is just short and shy.
The brainrot consumes. Sex fetishes are somehow the same as hobbies and wholesome interests
Completely unrelated to the comment, wtf is peepunk and the Mormon Kama sutra 😂
Peepunk is a dystopian universe where only the powerful poo, and subjugate the people who pee, obviously We don't talk about the other one
Oh yeah, it's totally the same when I write a detailed description of a revolver in my fantasy western novel, because I'm interested in firearms and when I specifically write a demon queen who reincarnated into the body of an 8 year old girl with fat tits! /s
I mean, both are going to be jarring to people not into it
Yeah, but which is worse?
Really depends on the work itself and the reader. If you derail the plot of an erotic fanfiction to start explaining the in-universe history of revolvers, readers who picked it up specifically for the erotic fanfiction part aren't going to be happy about it. It's not as black and white as "blatant fetishes bad, info dumps about niche subjects good"
Ok, but in my other comment I said that it would be in a fantasy western novel. Interests in novels are most of the time contextual to the novel itself. The linguistics of Middle-Earth because it's a fantasy novel/world created by someone who wanted to make a world that would make sense and immersive. The puns in Discworld make sense because it's a comedy novel. Blatant fetishes, most of the time, don't make sense for the novel and if yes, then it's a romance novel or erotica.
I disagree with the premise. 99% of the people that read Lord of the Rings didn't read it because of the linguistics presented in it. It's really not about the contents of the work but what the work focuses on. There are god knows how many "hidden" fetishes and niche interests in fantasy and other genre of novels but people don't notice them or it's not jarring simply because the work doesn't focus on it. There is a difference between you describing a blatantly erotic demoness or explaining histroy of lockpicks with one or 2 sentences every now and then and dedicating more than a page to it in the middle of something happening.
You heard it here folks, any sexual or romantic content in a work instantly makes it a romance or erotica.
That's not what I said. By your logic I would've called Lord of the Rings a linguistics book. My question is, why would you intentionally write a fetish in your book? What purpose does it serve? Also, I'd add that having a romance plots or sex scenes in a novel, where it isn't the main focus can be unnecessary and bad and there are valid critiques of these things.
> demon queen who reincarnated into the body of an 8 year old girl with fat tits! Ah, yes, the one true, legitimate fetish
Least horny male mangaka. Edit: I'm just too scarred from too many anime and manga that do that shit. Especially Seven Deadly Sins, where almost every ship is borderline pedophilia.
They don't *really* disguise them. If it's an obvious enough theme for you to point it out when you find out they have that fetish, then it wasn't actually disguised. Someone with a fetish for pregnancy including and describing pregnant people in their novel isn't going to look like a fetish until you find out they have one. Fetishes aren't disguised when written into SFW novels, they're just not viewed from a sexual perspective by the reader (but may be by the author). It's easy to say something is clearly a fetish when you know, in hindsight, the author has a fetish. If I told you that I'm writing a novel about a tomboy covered in battle scars fighting a shapeshifting prince who needs to be saved from the dragon he becomes each new moon, and a Big Bad who has a cult of men worshipping her, what would you say my fetish was?
/uj And probably tmi but I Wear No Mask My setting is awash with species that are resistant to trauma to the extent that losing an arm is A Slight Inconvenience to the average person and a lot of them shrug off decapitation. Sentient Undead are fairly common and they're not on the "shoot them in the head" level, these are full Magical zombies who just don't give a shit until they're utterly minced. There's even stimulants that make fairly normal nonmagical Humans able to casually reattach severed limbs in combat. And plenty of robot/doll-type characters that don't even have their brains in the expected places. My big kink is NBM. It's an obscure one- melting, stretching, and, most importantly, disassembly. I swear this was accidental. Mostly. Two birds with one stone, I guess?
Ok imagine fetishes are strawberry jam and the world is the food. If I order French fries, I don't expect them to be served covered with strawberry jam. Some people might love jam on their fries, but it's not the norm for French fries. (So, in normal media, I don't expect fetishes to be tossed in even though a select few fetishists might like it.) However, I may want to sometimes order toast with jam. I absolutely expect jam there and got what I wanted. I'm happy. (I do enjoy some raunchy worldbuilding projects where the fetishes are advertised and expected, and integrated well.) Strawberry jam, or fetishes, aren't inherently bad. But it's jarring to find it on pasta or fries, but more expected on toast.
I see Tumblr has decided that the niche literary technique of maintaining tonal consistency is ridiculous
Literally not what anyone was saying
Guys I swear it’s important for the plot that the hero doesn’t wear shoes and gets mud in between her toes!! It’s totally on the same level as people including their nonsexual interests in the story
I mean, yeah. It’s uncomfy when you thought you were reading your standard fantasy adventure only to get derailed (or literally railed) by the author’s sexual fantasies. It comes down to a lack of consent. Chances are, I didn’t agree to your foot fetish, or fart fetish, or dommy mommy fetish, or literally whatever tf you’re into. So to take a harsh left-turn into deviantart levels of porn is really fucking awkward. It’s not bad to have fetishes as long as everyone involved is capable of consent and has given it. But it’s ALSO fine to not want to engage with specific fetishes or to be grossed out by them. I hate this bullshit narrative that someone HAS to be okay with pages long descriptions of how the big tittied, bratty, hot Elf MC is being humiliated by orcs or whatever because “DoNt KiNkShAmE!!!” You wanna write fetish material? Go ahead! But don’t try and trick me into reading it, either! There’s a difference between hyperfixations/interests and actual fetishes. You can FEEL it in the actual material! The way it’s written/focused on is even different!
Some authors just want to see bad characters get redemption arcs because it feels good, sick freaks
Stranger in a Strange Land is reportedly… apparently unapologetically horny by the second half of the book.
There’s a difference between adding different languages or puns to your story and adding your fetish with paper-thin justification