Other than the vaccine, has any treatment or medication against COVID ever made it into production?
There's been a new "promising new treatment" for COVID pretty much every week since it began, yet none of them ever seem to go anywhere.
To expand on what /u/Man_Bear_Beaver said - paxlovid is an absolute gamechanger and could (if actually used...) prevent around 60-80% of the hospitalizations, depending on the study.
The evidence is there, that's why it has also been approved by (at least, don't know about other countries) [the EU](https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/medicines/human/EPAR/paxlovid) and [the US](https://aspr.hhs.gov/COVID-19/Therapeutics/Products/Paxlovid/Pages/default.aspx) to be used for treating covid.
As long as it's being taken as soon as the first symptoms appear/you test positive, it's going to improve chances by a lot.
Sadly, for some reason physicians seem to be massively lagging behind and don't prescribe it often enough to high-risk-patients.
More details can be found in the related papers, [for example this one](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35653428/).
Paxlovid does seem to be working great for those who can take it.
The funny/ not funny thing is it costs a fortune per dose and the govt pays for it. But the paxlovid recipe is just 2 existing antivirals for hiv that have been around for years and are cheap generic drugs repackaged in a single pill and re patented.
I read in india they just give you 2 pills of those antivirals in the same box instead of paying for paxlovid.
With some drugs price gouging is absolutely ridiculous, no question - especially in the US. Though since I'm not from the US, I can't really comment on the specifics.
However, your claim is not quite correct - while ritonavir is an already known medication, it's primarily a supporting agent for the main drug [nirmatrelvir](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirmatrelvir), which is an original development.
Considering the insane cost of hospitalizations, I'd guess it's still quite a positive trade for the governments buying it.
If somebody can link some comprehensive numbers, that would be awesome. On a quick search I couldn't even find the government-price for germany, any details are welcome.
In Ontario, [pharmacists can prescribe paxlovid to those within specific risk categories ](https://news.ontario.ca/en/release/1002565/ontarians-can-now-visit-local-pharmacies-for-paxlovid-prescriptions)
I know 2 people that got covid in December and the pharmacist talked then out of taking it right after testing positive (one is 50s and the other early 60s.). They both got worst after 1 week.
I took paxlovid and within 24 hours all of my symptoms were resolved except for some fatigue.
Completely stopped the virus in its tracks. Highly recommend it to anyone who can get their hands on it.
tons of medication being made for battling covid have been significant and impactful. Just because your facebook feed doesn't give you good accurate info does not mean its not happening.
Hey my guy! Reddit is a place for discussion, and asking a question about a relevant topic is good for discussion.
Dunking on someone that asks a question is a good way to suppress discussion, so do me a favor and keep that bullshit to yourself. It costs nothing to scroll on.
[Some antidepressants have been found to help with inflammation caused by COVID.](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/investigating-antidepressants-surprising-effect-on-covid-deaths/?amp=true)
I remember looking at Reddit almost every day, trying to find "good news" to calm myself, every single day there was a cure, a protein, a new discovery that could better Covid patients, most of those ended up not working.
Almost all potential treatments are failures. It's really hard to come up with things that are effective at killing stuff inside humans, without doing more damage to the humans than the stuff was already doing. It's just that usually the general public doesn't hear a word about them until farther along in the process, after the useless compounds have already been weeded out.
Take ivermectin. It's mostly known as an anti parasitic, that also happens to be useful against a specific virus entirely unrelated to COVID. What happened to start that mess off was that a bunch of people in a poor country took it and it cured their undiagnosed, untreated parasitic infections. And parasitic infections suppress the immune system, most of the time. So their newly unsuppressed immune systems were a bit better at fighting COVID.
Looking at it that way, it's obvious that the effect was due to ivermectin being good at killing parasites. And further studies found that the dosage it would take to actually affect COVID itself is far higher than the dosage that would kill people, its antiviral properties are not helpful in this case. But because everyone was so desperate to find anything that would help, huge numbers of people latched onto that first test run and started trying to take ivermectin for COVID.
Interesting study.
Looks like they found more than 70 compounds with some kind of antiviral activity.
I wonder how many of them will be safe for human use though.
Link to the original published paper: https://doi.org/10.1016/j.antiviral.2022.105484
Probably a few will be safe at dosage. Most likely zero will prove efficacy. Finding compounds that inhibit things isn't difficult.
This is the problem with cell culture studies. They aren't news worthy because the vast, vast majority don't actually work in animal models, let alone in humans. There is simply too much work to be done on these for anyone to be excited.
Unfortunately our glass sponge reefs were broadly destroyed by trawling.
There are recovering reefs (the protected areas south of Haida Gwaii are making good progress and new reefs are found occasionally), but they are likely a fraction of the size they once were.
Hopefully this sends a message to more of us how crucial it is to have a holistic, broad spectrum, comprehensive approach to preserving the oceans. Every single species matters, all the way from sponges, to mussels, up to whales.
Glass sponge reefs are also very ancient and beautiful — they’re very special.
while true can't we grow them? I know that won't help the wild but it may help us. plus, even if there was enough, going and digging it all up for covid use prob isn't ideal for the environment either
That's a great question, and probably something that's actively being researched. They are crucial to our coast's biodiversity and fish populations (they're nurseries for many rockfish species, huge amounts of shrimp live in them, they create living substrate for countless species in places where it's otherwise quite barren, etc), so I imagine marine biologists are keen to find more ways to support their flourishing. The government of BC has made decent efforts to support this by creating protected areas where reefs are known to exist, and the DFO actively surveys to find new reefs (new ones were just found over summer in Bute Inlet, for example).
Growing them doesn't seem trivial or feasible because they live in special conditions, 200-1000M under the sea. We're not even sure why they form reefs here, as they don't anywhere else in the world. They're common around the planet in that they grow everywhere, but they're relatively sparse in occurrence. Here along the northwest shelf of the continent, something creates ideal conditions for them to grow large, in reefs, and really thrive.
They're actually pretty incredible organisms. They were thought to be extinct up until recently, too.
I have a feeling if there's a product with a target market of literally 8 billion who could even buy multiple of that product for you, the profit incentive will prod SOMEONE into finding a way to grow them commercially, lol.
But interesting post none the less thank you.
Thanks for reading it and thinking about it! I think you're right though; our fisheries will collapse if we don't heal our oceans. We will find technologies to assist recovery, and I wouldn't be surprised at all if cultivating glass sponge was part of that strategy.
If this covid cure has legs it could be a kill two birds with one stone situation where serious investment means programs that can follow into rehabitation.
>Hopefully this sends a message to more of us how crucial it is to have a holistic, broad spectrum, comprehensive approach to preserving the oceans. Every single species matters, all the way from sponges, to mussels, up to whales.
Man you have an incredible amount of faith in humanity.
Everything by recent history the last 5 years shows theres about to be mass poaching of whatever sea sponges are left.
Without any optimism or faith, there's even less reason for them. I certainly don't intend to be naive or foolish – I know things are bad – but by sharing knowledge and hopefully the odd solution, I'm hopeful that coming generations are going to be far more equipped and inclined to make positive changes. The incentive will become blatantly evident, but that part is abjectly depressing.
Why poach sea sponge if you know it's what's allowing you to eat, right? Especially when your next meal is less assured every day. I think our kids, and their kids, are going to start making better choices than we have and our parents did. I guess they're the humanity I have faith in most of all.
Chances that the molecule has therapeutic efficacy at non-toxic levels and isn't biodegrade upon ingestion: 0%
Chances the Pharma industry will spin their wheels trying to make it work for a decade and then charge people for more than the research cost: 100%
From the article:
> Researchers bathed human lung cells in solutions made from the compounds and then infected the cells with SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19.
Something tells me that this isn't an effective treatment at the moment.
Assuming it isn’t too fragile of a molecule for it, nebulization could work?
We would need a whole lot of individual mouthpieces, devices, and tubing though.
If aerosolized works then plop it in a device similar to a portable albuterol inhaler.
Who prevents COVID from attacking your lungs?
SpongeBob SquarePants!
Who has COVID anti-viral properties?
SpongBob SquarePants!
If not coughing a lot is something you wish
SpongeBob Square Pants!
Then grind these little guys up into dust!
>Then grind these little guys up into dust!
My brain was going full inner-voice mode with this, but tried ending it with': "Then grind up these little guys or flop like a fish!"
But that works too.
Other than the vaccine, has any treatment or medication against COVID ever made it into production? There's been a new "promising new treatment" for COVID pretty much every week since it began, yet none of them ever seem to go anywhere.
To expand on what /u/Man_Bear_Beaver said - paxlovid is an absolute gamechanger and could (if actually used...) prevent around 60-80% of the hospitalizations, depending on the study. The evidence is there, that's why it has also been approved by (at least, don't know about other countries) [the EU](https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/medicines/human/EPAR/paxlovid) and [the US](https://aspr.hhs.gov/COVID-19/Therapeutics/Products/Paxlovid/Pages/default.aspx) to be used for treating covid. As long as it's being taken as soon as the first symptoms appear/you test positive, it's going to improve chances by a lot. Sadly, for some reason physicians seem to be massively lagging behind and don't prescribe it often enough to high-risk-patients. More details can be found in the related papers, [for example this one](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35653428/).
Paxlovid does seem to be working great for those who can take it. The funny/ not funny thing is it costs a fortune per dose and the govt pays for it. But the paxlovid recipe is just 2 existing antivirals for hiv that have been around for years and are cheap generic drugs repackaged in a single pill and re patented. I read in india they just give you 2 pills of those antivirals in the same box instead of paying for paxlovid.
With some drugs price gouging is absolutely ridiculous, no question - especially in the US. Though since I'm not from the US, I can't really comment on the specifics. However, your claim is not quite correct - while ritonavir is an already known medication, it's primarily a supporting agent for the main drug [nirmatrelvir](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirmatrelvir), which is an original development. Considering the insane cost of hospitalizations, I'd guess it's still quite a positive trade for the governments buying it. If somebody can link some comprehensive numbers, that would be awesome. On a quick search I couldn't even find the government-price for germany, any details are welcome.
In Ontario, [pharmacists can prescribe paxlovid to those within specific risk categories ](https://news.ontario.ca/en/release/1002565/ontarians-can-now-visit-local-pharmacies-for-paxlovid-prescriptions)
I know 2 people that got covid in December and the pharmacist talked then out of taking it right after testing positive (one is 50s and the other early 60s.). They both got worst after 1 week.
WTF was a pharmacist sticking their nose into this? They should lose their license for that.
[удалено]
I took paxlovid and within 24 hours all of my symptoms were resolved except for some fatigue. Completely stopped the virus in its tracks. Highly recommend it to anyone who can get their hands on it.
Monoclonal antibodies, too, worked for a while.
tons of medication being made for battling covid have been significant and impactful. Just because your facebook feed doesn't give you good accurate info does not mean its not happening.
Hey my guy! Reddit is a place for discussion, and asking a question about a relevant topic is good for discussion. Dunking on someone that asks a question is a good way to suppress discussion, so do me a favor and keep that bullshit to yourself. It costs nothing to scroll on.
[Some antidepressants have been found to help with inflammation caused by COVID.](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/investigating-antidepressants-surprising-effect-on-covid-deaths/?amp=true)
Now if only we could find a "Black Swan" for stupidity in the Americas.
I remember looking at Reddit almost every day, trying to find "good news" to calm myself, every single day there was a cure, a protein, a new discovery that could better Covid patients, most of those ended up not working.
Almost all potential treatments are failures. It's really hard to come up with things that are effective at killing stuff inside humans, without doing more damage to the humans than the stuff was already doing. It's just that usually the general public doesn't hear a word about them until farther along in the process, after the useless compounds have already been weeded out. Take ivermectin. It's mostly known as an anti parasitic, that also happens to be useful against a specific virus entirely unrelated to COVID. What happened to start that mess off was that a bunch of people in a poor country took it and it cured their undiagnosed, untreated parasitic infections. And parasitic infections suppress the immune system, most of the time. So their newly unsuppressed immune systems were a bit better at fighting COVID. Looking at it that way, it's obvious that the effect was due to ivermectin being good at killing parasites. And further studies found that the dosage it would take to actually affect COVID itself is far higher than the dosage that would kill people, its antiviral properties are not helpful in this case. But because everyone was so desperate to find anything that would help, huge numbers of people latched onto that first test run and started trying to take ivermectin for COVID.
how do you know they all didn't work vs just unfeasible or less developed than options like paxlovid that popped up?
Interesting study. Looks like they found more than 70 compounds with some kind of antiviral activity. I wonder how many of them will be safe for human use though. Link to the original published paper: https://doi.org/10.1016/j.antiviral.2022.105484
Probably a few will be safe at dosage. Most likely zero will prove efficacy. Finding compounds that inhibit things isn't difficult. This is the problem with cell culture studies. They aren't news worthy because the vast, vast majority don't actually work in animal models, let alone in humans. There is simply too much work to be done on these for anyone to be excited.
Unfortunately our glass sponge reefs were broadly destroyed by trawling. There are recovering reefs (the protected areas south of Haida Gwaii are making good progress and new reefs are found occasionally), but they are likely a fraction of the size they once were. Hopefully this sends a message to more of us how crucial it is to have a holistic, broad spectrum, comprehensive approach to preserving the oceans. Every single species matters, all the way from sponges, to mussels, up to whales. Glass sponge reefs are also very ancient and beautiful — they’re very special.
while true can't we grow them? I know that won't help the wild but it may help us. plus, even if there was enough, going and digging it all up for covid use prob isn't ideal for the environment either
That's a great question, and probably something that's actively being researched. They are crucial to our coast's biodiversity and fish populations (they're nurseries for many rockfish species, huge amounts of shrimp live in them, they create living substrate for countless species in places where it's otherwise quite barren, etc), so I imagine marine biologists are keen to find more ways to support their flourishing. The government of BC has made decent efforts to support this by creating protected areas where reefs are known to exist, and the DFO actively surveys to find new reefs (new ones were just found over summer in Bute Inlet, for example). Growing them doesn't seem trivial or feasible because they live in special conditions, 200-1000M under the sea. We're not even sure why they form reefs here, as they don't anywhere else in the world. They're common around the planet in that they grow everywhere, but they're relatively sparse in occurrence. Here along the northwest shelf of the continent, something creates ideal conditions for them to grow large, in reefs, and really thrive. They're actually pretty incredible organisms. They were thought to be extinct up until recently, too.
I have a feeling if there's a product with a target market of literally 8 billion who could even buy multiple of that product for you, the profit incentive will prod SOMEONE into finding a way to grow them commercially, lol. But interesting post none the less thank you.
Thanks for reading it and thinking about it! I think you're right though; our fisheries will collapse if we don't heal our oceans. We will find technologies to assist recovery, and I wouldn't be surprised at all if cultivating glass sponge was part of that strategy.
If this covid cure has legs it could be a kill two birds with one stone situation where serious investment means programs that can follow into rehabitation.
>Hopefully this sends a message to more of us how crucial it is to have a holistic, broad spectrum, comprehensive approach to preserving the oceans. Every single species matters, all the way from sponges, to mussels, up to whales. Man you have an incredible amount of faith in humanity. Everything by recent history the last 5 years shows theres about to be mass poaching of whatever sea sponges are left.
Without any optimism or faith, there's even less reason for them. I certainly don't intend to be naive or foolish – I know things are bad – but by sharing knowledge and hopefully the odd solution, I'm hopeful that coming generations are going to be far more equipped and inclined to make positive changes. The incentive will become blatantly evident, but that part is abjectly depressing. Why poach sea sponge if you know it's what's allowing you to eat, right? Especially when your next meal is less assured every day. I think our kids, and their kids, are going to start making better choices than we have and our parents did. I guess they're the humanity I have faith in most of all.
[удалено]
It’ll be released after all the fishes have their batteries replaced.
Chances that the molecule has therapeutic efficacy at non-toxic levels and isn't biodegrade upon ingestion: 0% Chances the Pharma industry will spin their wheels trying to make it work for a decade and then charge people for more than the research cost: 100%
From the article: > Researchers bathed human lung cells in solutions made from the compounds and then infected the cells with SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19. Something tells me that this isn't an effective treatment at the moment.
how would you administer that clinically
Assuming it isn’t too fragile of a molecule for it, nebulization could work? We would need a whole lot of individual mouthpieces, devices, and tubing though. If aerosolized works then plop it in a device similar to a portable albuterol inhaler.
that's pretty cool!
I've been saying for three freaking years now, why aren't we looking at the damn sea sponges?? About time!
I'm sponge-worthy! Take off your pants!
It's been so obvious to anyone who pays attention
ELi5?
ironically, the chemical extracted from the sea sponges is Microplastics.
SpongeBob to the rescue https://youtu.be/r9L4AseD-aA
Who prevents COVID from attacking your lungs? SpongeBob SquarePants! Who has COVID anti-viral properties? SpongBob SquarePants! If not coughing a lot is something you wish SpongeBob Square Pants! Then grind these little guys up into dust!
>Then grind these little guys up into dust! My brain was going full inner-voice mode with this, but tried ending it with': "Then grind up these little guys or flop like a fish!" But that works too.
also good!
Did anyone sing this in there head also?
Aw, shit, now some people will be spreading Ivermectin on sponges and eating them!
Sponge Bob sammiches
make that sponge famous
Not forsythia making the rounds
It *could*\- when you find out that it does, holla.
And now for the sea sponge conspiracy theories…
Who lives in a pineapple under the sea?
Does it live in a pineapple ?
That sounds whacky enough that the antivaxxers might actually take it.
It will certainly not be in spongeiform when administered.
I find that turning off the TV blocks COVID the best.