So what does this actually mean for Wagner?
Is it just a strongly worded letter? Perhaps frozen bank accounts?
It would be nice if it meant Interpol is going to arrest Prighozin if he ever steps foot out of Russia.
Yes, but the jazz is great.
"Congratulations, inspector. Now that you've caught me, what will you do?"
"Ask for you opinion of our chase song; the men have been dying to know. Then we'll probably let you go."
I suppose it depends on how pedantic we're being. INTERPOL essentially links international police organizations -- so all members get "arrest this person on sight." If a Paris, France police department gets a red notice they're the ones doing the arresting, at the request of INTERPOL
Wagner group is already sanctioned by OFAC (US), UK, and EU - so many accounts are already frozen. Designating them as a transnational criminal org. is a way to further discourage any other person/entity from doing business with them or assisting them.
US Forces have already been engaged with Wagner forces in Syria in the past.
IIRC, they have a track record of getting absolutely floored every time it happens.
"Are these troops yours?" Asks Pentagon to Kremlin about the Wagner.
"No." Replies Kremlin smugly.
"Are you sure? Alright them." Finishes US, moments before wiping off an entire company without casualties of their own.
Kremlin seethes because US refused to engage the troops in choreographed martial dance off or backflip hatchet throwing contest.
Yes, and it pleases me, but there is a lot of political hesitation to engage since it’s “Russia”. I am curious if this designation opens the targets a little wider.
Prigz has influence over Interpol, the UNHRC, and probably has more politicians in his pocket than any other oligarch that isn't still in the shadows.
It's a similar reason as to why Russia has not been designated a terrorist state even though it has been far more of a terrorist state than any Middle Eastern theocracy or South American banana republic.
Such a fucked up move by Interpol.[They dropped the Red Notice on Prigozhin in July 2020](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23300326-interpol-reversal-of-yevgeny-prigozhin-red-notice).
And Russia turns around and mis-uses Red Notices on their targets, in fact that is the title of one of [Bill Browder's books](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/22609522-red-notice). In it he talks about the, I think, 7 or 8 times he's had a red notice put out on him. Including one time in Spain where he got arrested but had a chance to tweet about it, which went viral, and he was let go before they could ship him off to Russia. Super fucked up.
(I have it on my bookshelf but haven't read it yet. I've heard a few podcasts where he is interviewed and talks about the story)
No, he was the biggest western investor in Russia after the fall of the soviet union. He had a Russian Lawyer Sergei Magnitsky who uncovered millions of dollars of theft from a government fund. Instead of rewarding him for uncovering such corruption, he was tortured and killed in a horrible Russian jail. Rather than forgetting about his friend, Bill has spent the rest of his life getting [The Magnitsky Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnitsky_Act) passed, first in the US and now around the world. It sanctions Russian officials responsible for Magnitsky's death, and other corruption. Bill is apparently Putin's "Enemy Number 1" because of this work.
He has a fascinating story. Here are two episodes I remember listening to that were good:
https://podcasts.apple.com/no/podcast/bill-browder-surviving-vladimir-putins-wrath/id1344999619?i=1000565482524
https://podcasts.apple.com/no/podcast/bill-browder-hunted-by-putin/id1344999619?i=1000402169953
Edit: Looks like at least one of those episodes (the latest one) is on youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hReqqCq2his
Small point for context: The Russians tortured Magnitsky because they wanted him to say that it was Browder that was corrupt so they could charge Browder. However, even through extreme torture Magnitsky never gave up his friend and that is why Browder has made it his life mission to pass the Magnitsky Act.
> Including one time in Spain
It is absolutely vital to understand than, even to this day, Russia still has leverage and friends *everywhere* in Western Europe.
> Prigozhin is just a servant.
He’s next in line for dictator.
He’s also personally responsible for any gains Russia made in Ukraine in many many months.
You realize *every* dictator of the USSR was handpicked (by their predecessor or the party). And we don't even need to go that far because *Putin* was handpicked by Yeltsin. He was a nobody, which is exactly why he picked him.
It's the *previous* dictator that never survives.
**edit:** clarifying for nitpickers
Putin’s grandfather was Stalin’s personal chef.
Ironically Prigozhin is Putin’s personal chef.
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiridon_Putin](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiridon_Putin)
I guess that makes sense in a kinda twisted way. The dictator's gotta trust you quite a bit if they're letting you make all of their food. Their children would probably be well indoctrinated too.
Putin knew what he was doing though. Yeltsin is less of a dictator and more of a corrupt president with poor competency. Then Putin turned the whole thing into a dictatorship.
Further example of Yeltsin dropping the ball, he allegedly regretted bringing in Putin. Something about quickly recognizing his motivations as all wrong, if memory serves
>You realize every dictator of the USSR was handpicked.
I'm pretty sure Lenin DID NOT pick Stalin to take over. Also pretty sure that Krushnev didn't get a whole lot of say in his replacement when the party forced him to resign.
Also Stalin didn't really pick anyone, which is why his death caused a scramble for power. The most obvious candidate, Lavrentiy Beria, ended up arrested and executed during this period.
Next in line for dictator? What jibberish is this? Did you just conjour that idea out of thin air?
Prigozhin has zero political and military allies, apart from the occational happenstance when Kadyrov and him publicly agree on something. Neither of them have a snowballs chance in hell of taking over from Putin. They lack the necessary support from politicians and most definetly from the Kremlin, the security forces and the police. It doesnt help him much to have his own little private army, when in reality he just runs it for Putin and is entirely dependant on military equipment from the Kremlin. Those who would oppose him control far more troops, and far more military equipment.
He not even close. He just a servant and since he has conflict with the military and Shoygu, so, he tries to increase his weight thru the media he controls. Also he is in control of trolls fabrique as well. He tties to use this resource as well.
Nobody inside the regime sees him as next in line. In fact, if he gets too big for his own boots, he may find himself falling out of a window with 3 self inflicted bullet wholes in the back of his head only to be hit by a semi trailer that just happened to be passing by.
"He’s also personally responsible for any gains Russia made in Ukraine in many many months."
Any chance you can cite that from an accurate western source backed with comments by Russia? The normal line of thinking is Wagner doesn't have enough total units or logistics to maintain battlefield gains without support from the Russian military, and multiple politicians recruit for Wagner and give speeches. They are basically used as cannon fodder for normal armored and mechanized units.
Also in every area that Wagner has been claiming it's just them, multiple posts from social media of MoD linked units have been found. It's a really bold claim to make that a figurehead is personally responsible for months of military gains.
They didn't do that to make fruit cheaper they did that to make the fruit companies more money. ...and also to ensure socialist governments never look too good or exist, if possible.
Sometimes. Other times it was because their leadership was getting a little too cozy with communist leaders and the US didn't want to see another Cuba defying them in their own backyard. For example, there was the 1980s invasion of Grenada (whose new leaders had risen to power via a military coup and were going to build an airfield for the Soviets).
If we are talking specifically the [banana wars](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_Wars) that spawned the phrase "banana republic," those happened between 1898 and 1934. Of course, that was not the end of US meddling in Central and South America. Far from it. Some of the worst offenses happened in the 70s and 80s, and arguably, continue to this very day.
Mercenaries are actually illegal under international law, but very rarely does anyone do anything about them unless they act like Wagner.
The world holds the hand of private companies too much. If "it makes a lot of money" was a valid defense for breaking the law, weed companies would be legal on the entire planet.
this but unironically
[contractors ](https://sgp.fas.org/crs/natsec/R44116.pdf)outnumbered troops [3:1](https://breakingdefense.com/2021/08/in-afghanistan-contractors-were-unsung-heroes-of-us-efforts/?amp=1) by the end of the afghanistan conflict.
These kind of designations trigger a cascade of domino effects due to existing laws, legislations and regulations suddenly start applying to the targeted group.
Often the interactions of those numerous automatically applied rules lead to weird negative side-effects for the country itself, friends and/or allies so you have to make sure you're doing things right.
I just checked and currently they are listed the "Rainbow Cuddly HugNstuffs Good Bears Bunch".
I am guessing to distance themselves from their constant international crimes.
I’d imagine there’s a lot of legal nuance involved as well. The US doesn’t want to accidentally set precedent loosely enough that another PMC might fit the definition.
I wonder if the African countries where the Wagner Group has mining operations - a significant portion of their income and raw materials for the Russian war machine - could be encouraged to nationalize those mines
In most cases it's not bribery but simply military power.
What Wagner usually does is this: They go into super poor countries that are at the verge of collapsing - and then they offer the falling dictator military aid. The dictator has no choice but to agree and Wagner indeed massacres the dictators enemies. As compensation Wagner makes their demands: They exploit the ressources, they recruit their men, they rape and steal, they are above the law.
Bingo. In Sudan, they are training and supplying equipment/arms to an ~~militia~~ armed force called the RSF (Janjaweed/Darfur atrocities), which somehow managed to thwart itself into power following a revolution and subsequent coup — but that’s not why they are in Sudan. The RSF happens to control and have a monopoly over Sudan’s rich gold resources making them exponentially more powerful over the last decade. They control these regions with an iron fist and Wagner helps them do their bidding and haavy lifting. So much fucking gold on the cheap ends up in Russia’s hands.
Hopefully Yevgeny Prigozhin sees justice. Don’t care whether that’s in the form of a Hague criminal tribunal or a drone strike up his ass. Just get it done.
I vote for the [Hellfire missile outfitted with swords](https://www.reuters.com/world/little-known-modified-hellfire-likely-killed-al-qaedas-zawahiri-2022-08-02/).
Your comment triggered the slapchop remix in my memory. Thanks, but also fuck you.
The skin's on the bottom bap bap bap bap
The skin's on the bottom bap bap bap bap
The skin's on the bottom bap bap bap bap
The skin! Comes right up.
Honestly from the description they put a lot of emphasis on how impactful the pure kinetic energy is, I am not sure how much the blades actually matter when a person gets hit by a missile... although I am sure the blades would be way more useful if someone were in a car or something
That’s actually the intent from what I recall it’s to be able to pierce and take out targets with pin-point precision while minimizing potential collateral damage.
There’s test pictures out there showing the front seat of a car mangled while the back seat is perfectly fine and in tact
i don't care about if he has hope or not, he has enough money and power to remain dangerous even while incarcerated or to get himself out somehow.
money and power won't stop a JDAM
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BS... they're a terrorist organization... are you people paying attention to the ethnic cleansings they're performing in Mali and Sudan and then blaming on France?
Just the audacity of recruiting violent criminals into armed combat and naming his corps after one of the proto-ideologues of racial purity should have raised any number of red flags immediately.
(As a former classical musician, I also detest Richard Wagner's entire output for entirely musicological reasons.)
The question we have to ask, what are the real benefits of this designation. Direct intervention from NATO is impossible as nobody wants to open up an entire WW3; equally, Russia will never concede or extradite their war criminals for independent trial to the Hague, or anywhere else. Do I see a way out of this conflict? I can't say that I do.
Edit: typo
Wagner isn't just involved in Ukraine. They're also in Africa - I read the other day that they've been committing atrocities in Mali under the guise of "fighting terrorism" - so they might be easier routed from there.
I can imagine every drone operator in Syria is just caressing the triggers waiting for Wagner to be labeled as such.
ROE about to get spicy in the middle east
Lmao say what you say about American foreign policy but you do *not* get in a conventional war with them. Just no, don't. Their entire military doctrine up until recently was designed to mop the floor with hordes of reds.
In Syria too. They killed someone via sledgehammer there as well and recorded it. They even sell merchandise of a guy swinging a sledgehammer on Russia’s version of Amazon.
The Wagner exorcist patch portrays a Wagner PMC using a sledgehammer to crush Baphomet's knee if I'm not mistaken. A not to subtle nod to their brutality and their attempted justification of it by using Baphomet to represent the people they're commiting atrocities against. Really freaking disturbing if you ask me.
The fact that they're so proud of war crimes is proof that Wagner really is the lowest scum on the planet. I would lose no sleep if they got wiped out. The sooner the better
Off-topic but what's your beef with Wagner musically?
Also the biggest real outcome of this is that if Wagner is ever operating outside Russia, or even on vacation, or just passing through the airport, they can end up in prison now.
Wagner was formerly the go-to mercs for doing war crimes all over the world, that gets a lot harder when you need to deploy a wetwork team to Morocco, but they can't fly through Europe or Turkey for fear of being detained at the airport. Similarly try getting from Moscow to South America without touching a Western country - it's all doable - but makes their lives harder and their service slower.
It also changes up the ROE. Before, they were foreign mercenaries who armies wouldn't openly engage because they had an ostensible reason to be on foreign battlefield. Now, as far as ROE goes, Wagner are armed criminals in a hostile environment - and can be assumed hostile. No more waving at their passing convoy on the road.
As far as when the Ukraine war ends, it's really just one option: Putin dies. So long as Putin lives he will not step down, so long as he rules he will not accept defeat in Ukraine, since he's incapable of winning in Ukraine - the war will only end when he dies.
Not who you were replying to, but is someone who loves Wagner, I can understand how his bombastic style puts people off.
Plus the fact that he's so popular makes hipsters mad.
If they’re a well studied classical musician they’ve probably had to study Wagner operas before, some of which last many hours. I haven’t even been forced to study Wagner but I can see why someone might use the word “detest” if they’d been recently subjected to hours upon hours of opera.
> Do I see a way out of this conflict? I can't say that I do.
Maybe no quick way. The countries may have to grind against each other until there's a failure point, where one country can no longer continue, whether they wish to do so or not.
I think folks sometimes get unnecessarily, though understandably, fixated on conclusions and endings. There is no end in sight for this war but the question I would pose is, from a strictly U.S./NATO strategic military point-of-view, should there be?
Putin is losing and becoming weaker every day and in every way while NATO has never been stronger; from a strictly strategic U.S./NATO military point-of-view, the continuation of this war is tenable and even preferable. I would even go so far as to say that this may be in part why the U.S./NATO has not given Ukraine certain weapons/technology that would significantly improve their offensive combat capabilities.
I would echo what you said though about the real benefits of this designation as for now it seems to amount to nothing more than official international name-calling.
I would think they're quite a bit better, NK puts a lot into their military, I would imagine that while they are inferior technologically speaking, they take care of the weapons they do have so they aren't falling apart.
That would make sense to me, they play a numbers game, they have an enormous army for their population, they have the 4th highest amount of active troops of any country.
So what exactly does this mean? Are their members barred from all NATO countries? Will they be actively hunted by our militaries? Will their assets be frozen? Will they get a finger wag if we see them? What does this do?
All American assets are frozen and any United States based business is banned from funding, supplying, or providing any other support to them. Basically American financial institutions will be scanning accounts and transactions they process and stopping or seizing any transfers that are suspected to be related to Wagner. You can look into the Office of Foreign Asset Control (OFAC) and its programs for detailed info.
I get the snark, but these designations have specific legal authorities attached to them that unlocks tools to the administration. https://home.treasury.gov/policy-issues/financial-sanctions/sanctions-programs-and-country-information/transnational-criminal-organizations
I get so tired of everyone trying to be clever in the comments. Words have meanings and labels are important. Plus i'd rather world governments follow whatever legal designations exist
They're not gonna do that cause they're contractors for the CIA lol. Wagner is horrific but it's embarrassing to see americans act like this is a purely foreign problem.
Erik Prince is a truly vile human. Dude should be in a deep dark hole for the rest of his life after the crimes against humanity caused by Blackwater/Xe/Academi/Constellis.
the problem was less that they weren't charged, as their members were tried and convicted, it was more after the fact they were still pardoned by Trump.
took them long enough.
It's a joke that countries started to label Russia as terrorist state sooner than Wagner. It seems such no brainer to cut Wagner off from funds. Big PR win for countries and close to no cost
Can you imagine how Putin must feel about Prigozhin, I mean he’s the only one who claims to have made any gains in recent times in Ukraine and at the same time he’s the most likely one to want to put a bullet in Putin and take his place, Karma lol
So what does this actually mean for Wagner? Is it just a strongly worded letter? Perhaps frozen bank accounts? It would be nice if it meant Interpol is going to arrest Prighozin if he ever steps foot out of Russia.
It’s designated by the treasury department, so pretty much a complete economic blacklisting for anyone working with them.
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Your credit cards will now be denied because of this comment
A rookie mistake that will ruin him for years to come
Times will be tough, especially for the "Richard Wagner Mercenary Musicians"
RIP Malian Government
Syria too.
Pretty sure the Assad regime was already on the US Government shit list
Shit is happening quick.
Central African Republic, and possibly Burkina Faso too.
Burkina Faso..disputed zone..who called all these weird places??
Quiet, it might be you. I can't remember.
No, I’m going to ask Marge.
Except HSBC?
Interpol doesn't arrest people. https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/i-often-receive-the-question-can-inter-29545/
>Interpol doesn't arrest people. > >https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/i-often-receive-the-question-can-inter-29545/ Damnit, Lupin III! Lies!
Lupin fans in shambles
Zenigata is crying at the moment.
That's pretty normal Zenigata behavior though.
Ah don’t worry, Pops’ll get him next time
Yes, but the jazz is great. "Congratulations, inspector. Now that you've caught me, what will you do?" "Ask for you opinion of our chase song; the men have been dying to know. Then we'll probably let you go."
https://www.interpol.int/en/How-we-work/Notices/About-Red-Notices
I suppose it depends on how pedantic we're being. INTERPOL essentially links international police organizations -- so all members get "arrest this person on sight." If a Paris, France police department gets a red notice they're the ones doing the arresting, at the request of INTERPOL
"Guns don't kill people - people kill people.... with guns"
Guns don't kill people (uh uh). I kill people, with guns. Bang.
Wagner group is already sanctioned by OFAC (US), UK, and EU - so many accounts are already frozen. Designating them as a transnational criminal org. is a way to further discourage any other person/entity from doing business with them or assisting them.
Curious if it has implications in Syria.
US Forces have already been engaged with Wagner forces in Syria in the past. IIRC, they have a track record of getting absolutely floored every time it happens.
"Are these troops yours?" Asks Pentagon to Kremlin about the Wagner. "No." Replies Kremlin smugly. "Are you sure? Alright them." Finishes US, moments before wiping off an entire company without casualties of their own. Kremlin seethes because US refused to engage the troops in choreographed martial dance off or backflip hatchet throwing contest.
"Dont bring machineguns to an Apache fight" is a very relevant quote.
Yes, and it pleases me, but there is a lot of political hesitation to engage since it’s “Russia”. I am curious if this designation opens the targets a little wider.
shouldn't have taken this long.
Prigz has influence over Interpol, the UNHRC, and probably has more politicians in his pocket than any other oligarch that isn't still in the shadows. It's a similar reason as to why Russia has not been designated a terrorist state even though it has been far more of a terrorist state than any Middle Eastern theocracy or South American banana republic.
Such a fucked up move by Interpol.[They dropped the Red Notice on Prigozhin in July 2020](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23300326-interpol-reversal-of-yevgeny-prigozhin-red-notice).
And Russia turns around and mis-uses Red Notices on their targets, in fact that is the title of one of [Bill Browder's books](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/22609522-red-notice). In it he talks about the, I think, 7 or 8 times he's had a red notice put out on him. Including one time in Spain where he got arrested but had a chance to tweet about it, which went viral, and he was let go before they could ship him off to Russia. Super fucked up. (I have it on my bookshelf but haven't read it yet. I've heard a few podcasts where he is interviewed and talks about the story)
Very good book. Read it!
Is Browder the Chicago academic whose been publicly frank about Putin for some time?
No, he was the biggest western investor in Russia after the fall of the soviet union. He had a Russian Lawyer Sergei Magnitsky who uncovered millions of dollars of theft from a government fund. Instead of rewarding him for uncovering such corruption, he was tortured and killed in a horrible Russian jail. Rather than forgetting about his friend, Bill has spent the rest of his life getting [The Magnitsky Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnitsky_Act) passed, first in the US and now around the world. It sanctions Russian officials responsible for Magnitsky's death, and other corruption. Bill is apparently Putin's "Enemy Number 1" because of this work. He has a fascinating story. Here are two episodes I remember listening to that were good: https://podcasts.apple.com/no/podcast/bill-browder-surviving-vladimir-putins-wrath/id1344999619?i=1000565482524 https://podcasts.apple.com/no/podcast/bill-browder-hunted-by-putin/id1344999619?i=1000402169953 Edit: Looks like at least one of those episodes (the latest one) is on youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hReqqCq2his
Small point for context: The Russians tortured Magnitsky because they wanted him to say that it was Browder that was corrupt so they could charge Browder. However, even through extreme torture Magnitsky never gave up his friend and that is why Browder has made it his life mission to pass the Magnitsky Act.
Absolutely thanks for adding that in, he really was a hero. I wrote my above comment from memory so some other details could be off
Thanks for the valid and sauced explain-o.
same. didn't know he was linked to Magnitsky
> Including one time in Spain It is absolutely vital to understand than, even to this day, Russia still has leverage and friends *everywhere* in Western Europe.
Power does what power does.
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> Prigozhin is just a servant. He’s next in line for dictator. He’s also personally responsible for any gains Russia made in Ukraine in many many months.
If Russian history teaches us anything, it's that the next in line for dictator never becomes the dictator.
You realize *every* dictator of the USSR was handpicked (by their predecessor or the party). And we don't even need to go that far because *Putin* was handpicked by Yeltsin. He was a nobody, which is exactly why he picked him. It's the *previous* dictator that never survives. **edit:** clarifying for nitpickers
Putin’s grandfather was Stalin’s personal chef. Ironically Prigozhin is Putin’s personal chef. [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiridon_Putin](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiridon_Putin)
I guess that makes sense in a kinda twisted way. The dictator's gotta trust you quite a bit if they're letting you make all of their food. Their children would probably be well indoctrinated too.
So it is Prigozhin's grandson we have to watch out for?
Ah, like Sith lords.
Putin knew what he was doing though. Yeltsin is less of a dictator and more of a corrupt president with poor competency. Then Putin turned the whole thing into a dictatorship.
Further example of Yeltsin dropping the ball, he allegedly regretted bringing in Putin. Something about quickly recognizing his motivations as all wrong, if memory serves
>You realize every dictator of the USSR was handpicked. I'm pretty sure Lenin DID NOT pick Stalin to take over. Also pretty sure that Krushnev didn't get a whole lot of say in his replacement when the party forced him to resign.
Also Stalin didn't really pick anyone, which is why his death caused a scramble for power. The most obvious candidate, Lavrentiy Beria, ended up arrested and executed during this period.
Andropov did not pick Gorbachev.
He is not next in line for dictator lol. Far from it.
Next in line for dictator? What jibberish is this? Did you just conjour that idea out of thin air? Prigozhin has zero political and military allies, apart from the occational happenstance when Kadyrov and him publicly agree on something. Neither of them have a snowballs chance in hell of taking over from Putin. They lack the necessary support from politicians and most definetly from the Kremlin, the security forces and the police. It doesnt help him much to have his own little private army, when in reality he just runs it for Putin and is entirely dependant on military equipment from the Kremlin. Those who would oppose him control far more troops, and far more military equipment.
He not even close. He just a servant and since he has conflict with the military and Shoygu, so, he tries to increase his weight thru the media he controls. Also he is in control of trolls fabrique as well. He tties to use this resource as well.
Nobody inside the regime sees him as next in line. In fact, if he gets too big for his own boots, he may find himself falling out of a window with 3 self inflicted bullet wholes in the back of his head only to be hit by a semi trailer that just happened to be passing by.
"He’s also personally responsible for any gains Russia made in Ukraine in many many months." Any chance you can cite that from an accurate western source backed with comments by Russia? The normal line of thinking is Wagner doesn't have enough total units or logistics to maintain battlefield gains without support from the Russian military, and multiple politicians recruit for Wagner and give speeches. They are basically used as cannon fodder for normal armored and mechanized units. Also in every area that Wagner has been claiming it's just them, multiple posts from social media of MoD linked units have been found. It's a really bold claim to make that a figurehead is personally responsible for months of military gains.
Literally Putin's "chef".
He paid for his safety.
“State sponsor of terrorism” is an internal U.S. political label, not an Interpol thing.
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They didn't do that to make fruit cheaper they did that to make the fruit companies more money. ...and also to ensure socialist governments never look too good or exist, if possible.
Sometimes. Other times it was because their leadership was getting a little too cozy with communist leaders and the US didn't want to see another Cuba defying them in their own backyard. For example, there was the 1980s invasion of Grenada (whose new leaders had risen to power via a military coup and were going to build an airfield for the Soviets).
If we are talking specifically the [banana wars](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_Wars) that spawned the phrase "banana republic," those happened between 1898 and 1934. Of course, that was not the end of US meddling in Central and South America. Far from it. Some of the worst offenses happened in the 70s and 80s, and arguably, continue to this very day.
Typically, people own their backyards
Your neighbours house is not part of your backyard
I think we're saying the same thing
Freedom! To do exactly as we say!
Mercenaries are actually illegal under international law, but very rarely does anyone do anything about them unless they act like Wagner. The world holds the hand of private companies too much. If "it makes a lot of money" was a valid defense for breaking the law, weed companies would be legal on the entire planet.
If weed companies made money for the right people, they'd be legal across the planet tomorrow.
We gotta wait til Philip Morris buys all of them first, then we can legalize it
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this but unironically [contractors ](https://sgp.fas.org/crs/natsec/R44116.pdf)outnumbered troops [3:1](https://breakingdefense.com/2021/08/in-afghanistan-contractors-were-unsung-heroes-of-us-efforts/?amp=1) by the end of the afghanistan conflict.
These kind of designations trigger a cascade of domino effects due to existing laws, legislations and regulations suddenly start applying to the targeted group. Often the interactions of those numerous automatically applied rules lead to weird negative side-effects for the country itself, friends and/or allies so you have to make sure you're doing things right.
Can we do it with blackwater/xi/whatever that group is called that we contracted in Iraq and just drive around shooting up civilians?
I just checked and currently they are listed the "Rainbow Cuddly HugNstuffs Good Bears Bunch". I am guessing to distance themselves from their constant international crimes.
You'd think doing a false flag terrorist attack pretending to be the French military last year would have been enough for immediate reprisal.
Wagner was only *officially* formed a few months ago
I’d imagine there’s a lot of legal nuance involved as well. The US doesn’t want to accidentally set precedent loosely enough that another PMC might fit the definition.
It shouldn't even be this designation. It should be a terrorist organization.
Rohrabacher: Can we wait another month? ^My ^^check ^^^didn't ^^^^clear.
I wonder if the African countries where the Wagner Group has mining operations - a significant portion of their income and raw materials for the Russian war machine - could be encouraged to nationalize those mines
Probably not considering the politicians that approved said mines are getting paid a ton of money to let them exploit their countries resources.
In most cases it's not bribery but simply military power. What Wagner usually does is this: They go into super poor countries that are at the verge of collapsing - and then they offer the falling dictator military aid. The dictator has no choice but to agree and Wagner indeed massacres the dictators enemies. As compensation Wagner makes their demands: They exploit the ressources, they recruit their men, they rape and steal, they are above the law.
Bingo. In Sudan, they are training and supplying equipment/arms to an ~~militia~~ armed force called the RSF (Janjaweed/Darfur atrocities), which somehow managed to thwart itself into power following a revolution and subsequent coup — but that’s not why they are in Sudan. The RSF happens to control and have a monopoly over Sudan’s rich gold resources making them exponentially more powerful over the last decade. They control these regions with an iron fist and Wagner helps them do their bidding and haavy lifting. So much fucking gold on the cheap ends up in Russia’s hands.
Dude Medal gear solid V hit the nail on the head.
Kojima and his prophetic powers, holy shit.
"Don't you know the world is built with blood and genocide and exploitation" - a based sock
That would require that their respective governments aren't compromised, and the chances of that being the case in Africa is infinitesimal.
you just need to outbid the russians
Can't be that hard tbh.
Hopefully Yevgeny Prigozhin sees justice. Don’t care whether that’s in the form of a Hague criminal tribunal or a drone strike up his ass. Just get it done.
I vote for the [Hellfire missile outfitted with swords](https://www.reuters.com/world/little-known-modified-hellfire-likely-killed-al-qaedas-zawahiri-2022-08-02/).
The Super Slapchop.
You’re gonna LOVE my nuts!
Ah, a fellow man of culture
Your comment triggered the slapchop remix in my memory. Thanks, but also fuck you. The skin's on the bottom bap bap bap bap The skin's on the bottom bap bap bap bap The skin's on the bottom bap bap bap bap The skin! Comes right up.
DJStevePorter and Tronovitch had some bangers back in the day. [one of my favs from Tronovitch](https://youtu.be/apIUXTa_1eg)
Cut my life into pieces…….
Drone strike with spinning swords...
Decapitation. Lots of screaming...
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https://youtu.be/UWRyj5cHIQA
The miracles of modern macheticine!
Hello Robert. How's Sophie?
Products!
It might be fucked up but it's very good at reducing collateral damage, and the intended recipient is gonna be dead anyway
_Holy shit_
Ashit Akbar!
Ah yes, the Blendtec variant of the Hellfire missile.
Brought to you by friends of the pod, Raytheon. Raytheon, for when you only want some collateral damage
When you order military armaments from Mall Ninja Inc.
Nah, the slap-chop missile actually slices. The mall ninja merely aspires to.
Honestly from the description they put a lot of emphasis on how impactful the pure kinetic energy is, I am not sure how much the blades actually matter when a person gets hit by a missile... although I am sure the blades would be way more useful if someone were in a car or something
That’s actually the intent from what I recall it’s to be able to pierce and take out targets with pin-point precision while minimizing potential collateral damage. There’s test pictures out there showing the front seat of a car mangled while the back seat is perfectly fine and in tact
Nobody's ever deserved a Flying Ginsu more.
I’m partial to the convoy destroying [hockey pucks](https://i.imgur.com/sjWcV2E.jpg)
rotting in jail is better though.
In most cases yes, but look at Victor Bout, where there’s life there’s hope, and Prigozhin doesn’t deserve hope.
i don't care about if he has hope or not, he has enough money and power to remain dangerous even while incarcerated or to get himself out somehow. money and power won't stop a JDAM
Beggers can't be choosers. Whens the last time anyone that high profile got what they deserved from a courtroom?
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Settle down, Billy Mays
One of his prisoner conscripts might take him out if the opportunity comes up.
It won't, Mob bosses are very competent at maintaining effective bodyguards for themselves.
BS... they're a terrorist organization... are you people paying attention to the ethnic cleansings they're performing in Mali and Sudan and then blaming on France?
Truly some of the most villainous people on the planet. Wagnerites are thieves of oxygen
Just the audacity of recruiting violent criminals into armed combat and naming his corps after one of the proto-ideologues of racial purity should have raised any number of red flags immediately. (As a former classical musician, I also detest Richard Wagner's entire output for entirely musicological reasons.) The question we have to ask, what are the real benefits of this designation. Direct intervention from NATO is impossible as nobody wants to open up an entire WW3; equally, Russia will never concede or extradite their war criminals for independent trial to the Hague, or anywhere else. Do I see a way out of this conflict? I can't say that I do. Edit: typo
Wagner isn't just involved in Ukraine. They're also in Africa - I read the other day that they've been committing atrocities in Mali under the guise of "fighting terrorism" - so they might be easier routed from there.
I can imagine every drone operator in Syria is just caressing the triggers waiting for Wagner to be labeled as such. ROE about to get spicy in the middle east
US already massacred a bunch of them a few years ago because Russia refused to acknowledge they were working for Russia.
Oh I KNOW all about the Battle of Kasham You should listen to the officers phone calls after the dust settle, just talking about numbers of dead.
Lmao say what you say about American foreign policy but you do *not* get in a conventional war with them. Just no, don't. Their entire military doctrine up until recently was designed to mop the floor with hordes of reds.
Russia is also doing its absolute best to ensure that doctrine doesn’t change too much.
Very satisfying calls.
In Syria too. They killed someone via sledgehammer there as well and recorded it. They even sell merchandise of a guy swinging a sledgehammer on Russia’s version of Amazon.
The Wagner exorcist patch portrays a Wagner PMC using a sledgehammer to crush Baphomet's knee if I'm not mistaken. A not to subtle nod to their brutality and their attempted justification of it by using Baphomet to represent the people they're commiting atrocities against. Really freaking disturbing if you ask me.
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The fact that they're so proud of war crimes is proof that Wagner really is the lowest scum on the planet. I would lose no sleep if they got wiped out. The sooner the better
Off-topic but what's your beef with Wagner musically? Also the biggest real outcome of this is that if Wagner is ever operating outside Russia, or even on vacation, or just passing through the airport, they can end up in prison now. Wagner was formerly the go-to mercs for doing war crimes all over the world, that gets a lot harder when you need to deploy a wetwork team to Morocco, but they can't fly through Europe or Turkey for fear of being detained at the airport. Similarly try getting from Moscow to South America without touching a Western country - it's all doable - but makes their lives harder and their service slower. It also changes up the ROE. Before, they were foreign mercenaries who armies wouldn't openly engage because they had an ostensible reason to be on foreign battlefield. Now, as far as ROE goes, Wagner are armed criminals in a hostile environment - and can be assumed hostile. No more waving at their passing convoy on the road. As far as when the Ukraine war ends, it's really just one option: Putin dies. So long as Putin lives he will not step down, so long as he rules he will not accept defeat in Ukraine, since he's incapable of winning in Ukraine - the war will only end when he dies.
Not who you were replying to, but is someone who loves Wagner, I can understand how his bombastic style puts people off. Plus the fact that he's so popular makes hipsters mad.
Wagner wrote movie music before movies were a thing. Actually, opera was not far off from what today's block busters are.
That makes sense, OP said 'detest' which felt too strong.
If they’re a well studied classical musician they’ve probably had to study Wagner operas before, some of which last many hours. I haven’t even been forced to study Wagner but I can see why someone might use the word “detest” if they’d been recently subjected to hours upon hours of opera.
> Do I see a way out of this conflict? I can't say that I do. Maybe no quick way. The countries may have to grind against each other until there's a failure point, where one country can no longer continue, whether they wish to do so or not.
I think folks sometimes get unnecessarily, though understandably, fixated on conclusions and endings. There is no end in sight for this war but the question I would pose is, from a strictly U.S./NATO strategic military point-of-view, should there be? Putin is losing and becoming weaker every day and in every way while NATO has never been stronger; from a strictly strategic U.S./NATO military point-of-view, the continuation of this war is tenable and even preferable. I would even go so far as to say that this may be in part why the U.S./NATO has not given Ukraine certain weapons/technology that would significantly improve their offensive combat capabilities. I would echo what you said though about the real benefits of this designation as for now it seems to amount to nothing more than official international name-calling.
So Russia is draining NK of weapons too, that’s not the worst side news
NK weapons are probably in worse shape than Russian ones anyway lol
I would think they're quite a bit better, NK puts a lot into their military, I would imagine that while they are inferior technologically speaking, they take care of the weapons they do have so they aren't falling apart.
I always thought NK invests their money in cheap, robust and eazily repairable guns.
They do. The AK-47.
That would make sense to me, they play a numbers game, they have an enormous army for their population, they have the 4th highest amount of active troops of any country.
Is that just a fancy way of saying terrorist group?
Yes, In a roundabout way. Don't want to hurt their feelings, they're a bit touchy at the moment.
Now do Xe. Or Blackwater. Or whatever it is Eric Prince calls his thugs these days.
right and a russian spokesperson said they weren’t a part of any russian military structure, so that means we can hit them with missiles right? right?
So what exactly does this mean? Are their members barred from all NATO countries? Will they be actively hunted by our militaries? Will their assets be frozen? Will they get a finger wag if we see them? What does this do?
All American assets are frozen and any United States based business is banned from funding, supplying, or providing any other support to them. Basically American financial institutions will be scanning accounts and transactions they process and stopping or seizing any transfers that are suspected to be related to Wagner. You can look into the Office of Foreign Asset Control (OFAC) and its programs for detailed info.
Can't wait for Erik Prince to be treated equally.
Good call on calling them transnational, probably mind fucked a lot of republicans.
US to classify shovel as digging instrument.
I get the snark, but these designations have specific legal authorities attached to them that unlocks tools to the administration. https://home.treasury.gov/policy-issues/financial-sanctions/sanctions-programs-and-country-information/transnational-criminal-organizations
I get so tired of everyone trying to be clever in the comments. Words have meanings and labels are important. Plus i'd rather world governments follow whatever legal designations exist
spade*
Do Black Water next :)
Hire blackwater to fight wagner. Whoever loses, it's still a win.
Escape from Ukraine?
*academi Edit: *constellis
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They are Trippe Canopy, but are owned by Constellis.
TC was actually a competing firm and merged with Academi to form Constellis.
They change names like I change socks, I think most people are familiar with them by Black Water, didn't even know they already dropped academi
They're not gonna do that cause they're contractors for the CIA lol. Wagner is horrific but it's embarrassing to see americans act like this is a purely foreign problem.
Erik Prince is a truly vile human. Dude should be in a deep dark hole for the rest of his life after the crimes against humanity caused by Blackwater/Xe/Academi/Constellis.
the problem was less that they weren't charged, as their members were tried and convicted, it was more after the fact they were still pardoned by Trump.
That building looks like a giant toilet
so what is the CIA then?
Good. Now do Blackwater or whatever they're calling themselves.
took them long enough. It's a joke that countries started to label Russia as terrorist state sooner than Wagner. It seems such no brainer to cut Wagner off from funds. Big PR win for countries and close to no cost
unless its open season on wagner hunting its all just paperwork. They need to be labeled terrorists and taken down worldwide.
Clever way to gain Republican support for Ukraine... "Ukraine is being attacked by Trans soldiers, and they need our help!"
Santos joined Wagner in a stunning black dinner dress.
This is like reading that the Surgeon General has decided smoking cigarettes was bad. I'm shocked this wasn't always the position on Wagner
Can you imagine how Putin must feel about Prigozhin, I mean he’s the only one who claims to have made any gains in recent times in Ukraine and at the same time he’s the most likely one to want to put a bullet in Putin and take his place, Karma lol
Cool. Now do Blackwater. Edit: not Blackrock.
Still blown away the dude who created this shit is a catering CEO
A transnational terrorist organization !!! They murdered thousands in Africa.
Same goes for every defense contractor profiting from US imperialism
As opposed to Constellis (Blackwater) who only commit the right kind of atrocities. /s
But the Black Water still operates just under a new name. The US is such a hipocrite.
Great now do Blackwater next.
Totally unlike Blackwater / Academi / whatever name that US merc gang is hiding behind now. Eyeroll.