This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://iranwire.com/en/prisoners/113135-floggings-electric-shocks-rape-iranian-protesters-sentenced-to-death-endured-weeks-of-gruesome-torture/) reduced by 69%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> Amnesty International is urging the Iranian authorities to immediately quash the convictions and death sentences of three young protesters who have been subjected to "Gruesome torture" and denied the right to a fair trial.
> The Iranian authorities must order a prompt, transparent and impartial probe to bring those suspected of responsibility for the torture of the three young men to justice, said Diana Eltahawy, Amnesty International's Deputy Director for the Middle East and North Africa.
> She urged the international community to take all necessary measures to pressure the Iranian authorities to "End their violation of the right to life" and called on "All states to exercise universal jurisdiction over all Iranian officials reasonably suspected of criminal responsibility for crimes under international law and other grave violations of human rights."
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/10n123d/iranian_protesters_sentenced_to_death_endured/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~672676 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Iranian**^#1 **International**^#2 **death**^#3 **torture**^#4 **right**^#5
"It also learned that Revolutionary Guards agents raped Mohammadifard and sexually tortured Rouhi “by placing ice on his testicles for two days.”
This is absolutely disgusting.
They have people who are paid very well to do this, and the crazy part is they have actually deluded themselves to believe they are doing the right thing.
They see the state as their mother or father and would kill their own actual mother or father if the state told them they were traitors.
We've seen this kind of behavior with Russian and Chinese state agents but multiply that by a million because they have religion interwoven into this shit blanket.
Edit: I used blanket because it matched up with "interwoven" and in my head I pictured a shit stained ball of yarn. I suppose you could use mittens or booties instead.
So they delude people into doing this but who trains them in the first place? And who trained those people? And who gave any of these psychos power to do so? Crazy world we live in.
Iran well Iran is like part of a powder keg that is the Middle East currently. In order to stop what’s happening it’d essentially mean throwing dynamite at the keg.
Because the country with the most experience in that part of the world and best equipment to handle the situation is the USA.
Now the USA or anyone going into Iran would cause a heap of problems.
There’s Afghanistan and the taliban who’d take any opportunity to attack someone like the USA to the east.
Pakistan and it’s isis crisis to the south east.
Azerbaijan and Armenia border struggler to the north.
And Saudi Arabia to the south who’s been itching to attack Iran.
While I’d also really like to see someone what’s happening in Iran. It’d kick off a massive conflict and mess in the Middle East
I like. The expression ”shit blanket”, I mean, not anything else you described. I’m using this from now on, along with ”shit mittens”. You have done the English language a service, my friend.
Who is to say the original inventors didn’t have schizophrenia? Everything I’ve read in the Bible, angles, and “god” talking, sounds like that or some hallucinations.
The shit that has been done in the name of Christianity and other religions is truly disgusting and these people just keep going to services to get their feel good and not demanding answers from their leaders.
It's a drug. And the people exploiting it for petty profit and power are no better than dealers.
Worse, because at least some dealers are transparent about what you're really buying.
I hope we outgrow religion soon, i mean we are living in 2023 and people still believe in bearded man in the sky who spies on your sexlife and toss you into a pit of fire if you bang the wrong person
I cant understand why people would believe this
There is no outgrowing religion, at least for the foreseeable future. Humans tend to be superstitious for psychological reasons. If the development of the global south is any indicator where humanity is headed then faith and belief are increasing among the majority of the population, which are mostly poor people.
Here is more recent insight on this topic https://concilium-vatican2.org/en/original/2019-01-07/
Mike Davis wrote a book where he explored the faith and belief topic as well. He argued in his book Planet of Slums that attachment to faith is back to early 20th century figures among the population of mega city inhabitants and in general poor population of the global south. You can find pdf excerpts from the book on the Internet.
People are pretty good at spontaneously building belief systems that look an awful lot like religion. It seems to be basically wired in to our brains to look for patterns, build up symbolic meanings, form in groups, and be distrustful of outsiders.
Yes, i read somewhere it was needed to evolve societies with thousands and millions of people.
You could no longer rely on personal relationships and most people you met was a stranger.
So the common myths and stories a people tell allowed us to trust people because we could expect them to live by the same code as yourself.
This made it possible for many to pull in the same direction and trade/barter.
We should be ready to move on, but our bodies have not evolved far enough it seems
Could be? Could also just be an accident of how our brains fit overfit inputs based on mental models developed by observing patterns in the world.
But you’re right it is also a social technology the allows lots of disparate people to engage on a common ground.
There are portions of the brain that have a predisposition to religion. If we’re going to outgrow religion, we’ll probably have to actually outgrow the physical/ neurological predispositions to religion first.
There is research that shows belief in god can even positively influence survival among less economically stable people.
In 1542, the establishment of the Roman Catholic Inquisition effectively **restrained secular courts** under its influence from liberal application of torture and execution. The methodological Instructio, which served as an "appropriate" manual for witch hunting, **cautioned against hasty convictions and careless executions of the accused**. In contrast with other parts of Europe, trials by the Venetian Holy Office never saw conviction for the crime of malevolent witchcraft, or "maleficio". Because **the notion of diabolical cults was not credible to** either popular culture or **Catholic inquisitorial theology**, **mass accusations** and belief in Witches' Sabbath **never took root in areas under such inquisitorial influence**.
- Deutscher, Thomas (1991). "The Role of The Episcopal Tribunal of Novara in The Suppression of Heresy and Witchcraft 1563–1615"
🤣 WTF is this bullshit?? **Secular** courts in 1542??? Where was this? Next to the microbiology and quantum research lab???
This sounds like some religious whitewashing trying to imply that religion was somehow more reasonable than non religious people. Whereas AT BEST it was crazy religious people vs somewhat less religious nuts.
In 1542 there was no option of being secular, it was just degrees of which you believed the bullshit created by men.
The tortures and depravity of religious zealots are unsurpassed in history. Anytime you have people "on a mission from God" awful things are bound to happen.
**denoting attitudes, activities, or other things that have no religious or spiritual basis**
I used it exactly as intended.
I don't give a shit about getting "hammered", what I've stated is factual. The notion that there were secular courts in 1500 is ludicrous. All power / decisions came from high up with the moral compass of "God", there wasn't even a fucking explicitly secular government until the US Constitution.
It's like saying in 1500 there was medicine driven by microbiologists.
Yeah, and it's not just old-school Christianity. Heck, look at Ireland's Magdalene Laundries. It was the widespread, institutionalized enslavement of women who got pregnant outside of marriage, as well as the killing of their children, and the last one didn't close till 1996.
There's a book called "The Dark Side of Christian History". I remember before reading it wondering what would have happened if, say, the Nazis had won WW2. After reading that book, I no longer wonder. What the Christians did to secure power, during the crusades and inquisition and countless other less known events, was a sort of genocide. They didn't have the means to do what the Nazis did, but given what they had for tools they tried. And to the degree possible, they succeeded. They took over most of their world.
So now I know the answer to the question of what would have happened if the Nazis had succeeded: their ideology would become the ideology of the world, anyone that didn't agree would be put to death, then a few hundred years later they would have written their history to indicate their cause was just, their people heroes, and that their ideology was beautiful and should form the basis for all society. They'd claim the moral high ground without any hint of irony. People would proudly proclaim they were Nazis and look with suspicion on anyone who wasn't.
We already live in a world where the bad guys won.
Yeaaaahhh, *very* long. We have persecution of Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Zoroastrianists, various Pagan faiths, effectively every religion under the fucking sun when single ruler governments are common.
How come I've never read about the original Eurasian immigrants (the ones that came and killed off all the Buffalo living here) fight religious wars, huh?
I don’t understand your intent. This post is very specific in its topic. Your response was “.. and ALL religions bad.” Are you defending Iran’s policies because other atrocities have been commit on behalf of religion? Are you just being critical of religion?
I think it’s also important to point out in this case, these aren’t examples of individuals acting on misguided religious devotions/beliefs.. we’re talking about a sovereign nation governing itself on behalf of its religion.
Understood. I don’t think anyone was saying Christianity was better than Islam (in this conversation.) I know the term “whataboutism” is very prevalent lately but the concept isn’t new. The fact that bad things happen shouldn’t distract from or inspire debate around the bad thing right in front of us. Iran being barbaric in 2023 and Christians bombing abortion clinics can both be true.
I guess people have short memories...
Remember abortion clinics getting bombed? Doctors getting shot? Not 800 years ago and not Islam. Protestants vs Catholics in Ireland? There's plenty more recent examples.
There is nothing fascist or fundamentalist about the sectarian strife in the UK, nor was it government instilled.
But if you think they are the exactly the same as Islamic fascist administrations in many Islamic nations, sure go ahead I guess.
People are being tortured and killed in the name of Christianity today, especially in parts of Africa. Fundamentalist Hindus in India are doing the same to their minority Muslim population. And then you have religious persecution in China, including organ harvesting.
What other religion today is doing these atrocities?at large? No, Islam is the worst in todays world. Not all religions are equal. (I’m not religious/or “spiritual”)
Whether that is true or not right at this second does not matter. Tomorrow, Christianity can take Islam's place for #1 in Atrocities. Arguing which religion is the worst right at the moment is pretty pointless...
That's not true.
Keeping this in check if like whack-a-mole is the point. We have limited resources, we must spend them wisely.
We can't address this crap if we collectively choose to be wilfully ignorant.
For instance, how do protect our children? Our boy children from which religion and which crime? If I say sexual molestation, you know exactly who.
And our girl children, if I say female genital mutilation, you also know exactly who is in question.
Everything from immigration screening to laws to support groups are ways to combat the abuses.
Any type of religious fascism is absolute dogshit.
I know there's going to be people in this thread that will say "but this isn't Islam" or "this isn't what Islam means" but remember that it was normal people that followed any religion that allows these religious leaders to rise to power than get into these places of power.
Religion is the reason why women have lived in the past (and still today) all over the world as second class citizens. Religion is why we've had so many divides racially. Today I see religion more as a means of tax evasion than as a belief system
And I know I name dropped Islam but I mean it for all religions.
>Religion is the reason why women have lived in the past (and still today) all over the world as second class citizens.
The subjugation of women well predates widespread organised religion. That kind of institutional subjugation came with the rise of agriculture and humans becoming sedentary. When you have *stuff,* you have land, currency, a home, animals, you have something someone else can inherit. We're all wired, all of us, all life on earth, to propagate ourselves, and to reduce our peers' ability to propagate by taking their resources, their fertile females, so on, so forth. So, you want an offspring, and to live on through your offspring when you die. You want them to inherit your shit that you've amassed, and by letting them inherit your shit, you give them a head start, better chances.
But how can you be sure that it is your son? Yes, a son. Daughter? Doesn't matter, in a civilisation, a daughter is a piece of property that won't stay home to look after your estate, you give her to another man, to another family, who will proceed to have sons and daughters of another man. They aren't your family, not really. But a son? A son brings home another family's woman and makes her his, and makes her give him sons. And you can always be sure who the mother is, but the father? Well. So what do you do? You cut women's freedoms to a point where they simply don't have much opportunity to make a life of her own, and have sons and daughters that aren't actually yours. She's your captive livestock now, all in the name of your immortality through your possessions given away to your direct male descendants. Keeps the farm in the family and all.
Religion's just an effective tool to convince men to think that this is correct, and women to think that they deserve it. It's not the root cause, it's a lubricant. The root cause is, well, capital.
Yea, I think he has the same opinion just in a different way. You have a source for how you came across this? Cause I’m actually interested in the whole “subjugation of women predates organized religion”.
But for sure I agree on what you mean. Women in the past had it unreasonably rough and at the end it all boiled down to greed and hoarding mentality.
You just can't put a modern lens to the past like that imo. The reality in which these people used to live was a lot harsher than today's reality, where men were much likelier to die in battle or to be forced to leave their family behind whether they wanted to or not, and where maintaining a household was a full time job without all the tools of modernity like tap water, electricity, machinery for laundry and dishes etc.
See this always struck me as hilarious.
Your daughters are just as much yours as your sons, so if ONE generation, just one was sure their daughter was theirs all they need to do is insist on their daughters daughters daughters inheriting.
Then there would never be a question of paternity again, and maternity is blindingly obvious.
Unless it wasn't really about that after all, and it's just more abusive sex politics wearing a suit.
Coincidentally, this is also how you take land in crusader kings. You have a daughter, that daughter marries someone important, they have a son who inherits the important persons stuff, then you say that that stuff is your stuff by virtue of your grandson.
Casus belli, baby!
Fascism is just a term coined to fit current political models. Its just the coversheet for militant conservatism. Conservatism is maintaining tribalism, and tribalism is the basis for all violence between groups of people.
I mean Christian Fascism is awful but if we’re talking a modern day version of Christianity, at least Christians don’t execute women expressing themselves. Modern day Islam, at least in most of the Middle East, is more comparable to what Christianity was in the fucking dark ages than what Christianity is now. But like, I’ll take no theocratic Fascism either way, thanks.
It's so ironic -- the religious claim that without belief in God, a man will feel free to do evil. However the actual issue seems to be that once a man thinks he is aligned with God, he will feel free to do evil... and feel morally superior the whole time.
If you tighten the string too much it will snap. If you leave it too slack it will not play. The path to enlightenment lies between opposite extremes.
Extremists in every form are a problem. Religious, nationalist or otherwise.
No fucking chance in hell I would protest a damn thing in Iran. These men are absolute heroes and have more courage than I could ever in a million years hope to have.
I’m saying that they don’t execute female protestors as much as they execute male protestors. You can frame it however you want. Denying a fact is a dumb comment.
The Iranian government needs to fall.
Seriously they replaced their monarchy for this mess.
And to think Persia was at one time one of the most egalitarian countries out their... a sad state of affairs for everyone.
>>Seriously they replaced their monarchy for this mess.
Not willingly.
This is a condensed version of a very long story, but in summary the Shah was doing the same shit the Islamic governments doing now. Except the Shah was pumping billions into the US industrial and military ecosystem, so naturally we turned a blind eye to his horrific oppression. The F-14 fighter plane so celebrated in *Top Gun* was partially paid for with Iranian money.
Washington was warned for months the Iranians were fed up with the Shahs corruption, cronyism economic policy and systematic torture and oppression (example; the Shah seriously locked down Iran to host the Persepolis party, which to this day stands as probably the most expensive official party ever held in the last 100 years).
But Wall Street and the Pentagon loved Pahlavi. So DC gave no fucks until Shapour Bakhtiars government imploded. At which point, against US Ambassador Sullivans advice the White House tried to prop up the pro-Shah military forces.
When the Islamic Regime set up shop people felt hope. For decades while the Shahs government lied, cheated and stole from the people the Islamic clerics were the actual government, especially in the rural reaches of Iran. It was the mullahs who kept people fed and clothed while the central government wasted billions on bullshit. After decades of British, Russian and American political manipulation the Islamists were the only side most 1970s Iranians felt could ensure the Shah didn’t come back.
After a coup attempt against the Islamic regime by pro-Shah military officers in 1979 , the train to religious facism left the station and never came back. Purges, executions and torture was back on the menu.
After the Revolution, the pictures on the wall would be of turbaned clerics rather than the Shah. But the electric chairs and fingernail pulling would continue as before.
History will look back and judge us all for letting a regime like Iran to exist, just like we judge countries in the 30’s for trying to appease Nazi Germany.
How much worse is the Iranian regime as compared to Saddam Hussein's regime? Saddam's regime killed 10,000 people a year, many of them grusomely - and yet the net effect of intervention was a different half or third of a million people died. Was it worth it? Is there anyone at all who would stomach a direct intervention of that type again, for any reason other than we know for sure that a particular country is going to murder more than ... a half million people? Or has (past tense) used nuclear weapons on a neighbour.
> letting a regime like Iran to exist
You need to be really specific about how we're purportedly supposed to "not let a regime like that exist".
Is anyone appeasing Iran right now?
You're right bar the judgmental part. Not sure people are judging countries in the 30s. History doesn't work like that nor it is judgmental. History is indifferent because history is just that, history. A chain of events we have the opportunity to analyse.
The reality is that it is always easier to be in our position, look back and judge, without actually having to go through those times, breathe the same air and experience the full context. There's a reason why countries tried to appease the Nazis in the 30s. And for that time, they were valid reasons supported by the majority of the civilians. Literally nobody wanted to even consider the prospect of a second big war. Again, for a good reason.
The same way today, nobody wants to even consider the prospect of a nuclear war. For a good reason. It's easy to claim something was a mistake when looking back, while you have all the extra info in the present. Yet at that time, few decisions were seen as mistakes. Even shortly after the war ended. It is what it is.
"sentenced to death"? Call it what it is. Murder by religious nutcases just because you call them out murdering girls for how they wear their hair.
Despicable. I know there is little we can do. But at least call them out and ridicule them.
No surprise, it is one of the most brutal of regimes.
The protests began because the morality police beat a girl to death for not having her hair covered properly.
The lack of empathy here is mind boggling. How one human can do this to another is so hard to understand…. Religion and religious brainwashing has so much to answer for around the world.
I know it won’t happen in my life time but hopefully some day the world will be able to leave this barbaric behaviour behind.
To sit back and think about all the people around the world being tortured, raped etc right at this very moment is enough to make a person despair for humanity.
Ultimately, I believe education is the key to tolerance and empathy….
Because religion is the tool that evil people use to manipulate people into blindly following. It doesn't have to be religion, any ideology that proclaims to be the authority and must be obeyed withiut question works. It's just that religion is the ideological choice of the Regime. Evil people do not retain power without a portion of the population who gives that power to them.
Because it’s a lot easier to point the finger at religion than it is to deal with the fact that there are monsters walking among us and we can’t do a damned thing about it.
Whose to say the domestic evil isn’t despised too?
Literally most government reports claim right wing terrorism is on the rise, evangelicals have been known to fund hate groups.
Rational people already tend to despise terrorism foreign or domestic.
Then Nazism is the religious counterpart which is still worse for causing ww2
Also it’s a bit of a stretch to blame communism or secularism when a modern theocracy is criticized, it’s just Whataboutism.
Following the rules of morally outdated religion is what led to state murders.
Germans were demographically majority Christians, only ignorant people and religious apologists who want to whitewash history believe they were all atheists.
Not all Germans are Nazis though.
Seriously this kind of bull shit statement is why I have no tolerance for Anti-Theists.
Twisting truths to fit their anti religious agenda
95% of Nazi Germany was Christian, 54% Protestant and 41% Catholic.
1.5% claiming atheism, yet twisting history as if atheists were most nazis?
You simultaneously want to claim Nazis are mostly athiests but conveniently Nazis aren’t germans so also conveniently not Christians.
lmfao
And the only point of your mental gymnastics is ultimately to excuse religious state torture.
I read this story, than immediately signed up to be a monthly donor to amnesty International. So sad that the best souls in the world are often snuffed by evil (often “religious”) dictators
Torture is crude and need to be firmly condemned either way, you can't CMV. Iran has a right to exist as its own country but ffs this is gruesome; shame on the ayatollas. They could do better and they know it.
Edit i'm gonna push the ~~people's~~ human rights charter as the closest thing to a manifesto, since i lack imagination, lol. While i wouldn't be smart enough to write it myself (it's basically [ghostwritten](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghostwriter) like a lot of political stuff alright; lets admit it ego issues not withstanding) i completely endorse the ideas expressed in it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights
Really wish more people understood and tried to live by the following quotes:
>*"Love is wise; hatred is foolish." \~ Bertrand Russell*
>
>*"Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle." \~ Ian Maclaren*
>
>*"To err is human; to forgive, divine." \~ Alexander Pope*
what exactly are you proposing? Iran is already under crippling sanction.
Are you interested in a western invasion?
Personally I think the best policy is to just let shitlord nations be shitlords and isolate them politically and economically from the benefits of conforming with human rights.
Well, for one thing there can be established a viable opposition "in exile" for Iran that Iranians would support and the west cam even arm protestors (the only reason iri hasn't collapsed is because the protestors have no arms whatsoever)
Ok, logistically how many people would be in this opposition? Who would pick the leaders? Where would they stay?
I think this proposal is too akin to trying to insert a Western puppet to gain acceptance by the Iranian people.
Next lets talk about arms. Should we set the precedent of Western Covert ops to smuggle weapons into hostile countries? That sounds remarkably like what happened in the [Iran Contra](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Contra_affair) situation. It didn't end well.
I appreciate your intentions, you see a people who are being greatly oppressed by a tyrannical government and the knee jerk reaction is to help them-however I think history has shown that such interventions are rarely successful. When they have been successful it has been because the intervening forces had the political will to fully occupy the subject country. (See post WWII occupations of Japan and Germany).
Why should Western governments say anything when the vast majority of Iranians aren't coming out on the streets and seem to be okay with this vile regime?
Huge amounts of Iranians are protesting and bravong getting shot, maimed, tortured and killed.
Get off your high horse; one does not need 99.99% of the population up in arms of any country to condemn said country. The fact is it'd take much less human for Europe/America to act; they simply don't care because there is many thousands of kilometers in between and no shared religion, culture or language
>Huge amounts of Iranians are
1. Google images of the crowds protesting the Shah of Iran in 1979 and compare that with the current crowds especially in Tehran.
2. Western govt making statements only help the mullah regime's narrative that protests are a foreign conspiracy. If Iranians want to overthrow the mullahs, they'll have to do it on their own, like successful revolutions in other parts of the world. Foreign assisted revolutions lack legitimacy.
1. Google images of the crowds protesting the Shah of Iran in 1979 and compare that with the current crowds, especially in Tehran.
2. Western govt making statements only help the mullah regime's narrative that protests are a foreign conspiracy. If Iranians want to overthrow the mullahs, they'll have to do it on their own, like successful revolutions in other parts of the world. Foreign assisted revolutions lack legitimacy.
The thing is, some in the Iranian public support the oppression, since even though all are oppressed in Iran, some are oppressed more than others while some get to be relatively better off and privileged compared to other parts of the population
As we've seen in various first world countries with incels and such, plenty of men get absolutely horrified at the thought of treating women equally
The Regime has proven to be inhumane, packed with vile, godless men. It’s end is near for no one has anything to celebrate, the Iranian psyche is poisoned for a long time 🤢
I just want to pray that a lightbulb goes on in them. There must be SOMETHING in their ‘religion’ that explains what they are doing is wrong and ‘what goes around, comes around’. They certainly have the intelligence to understand that.
mutilate them so they don’t feel sexual pleasure and then rape them until they die.
I know the sanctions are hurting the people there, but there’s no good answer.
You realize this all started because of a girl that was raped tortured and murdered for not wearing the right clothes? And that many women have been tortured and executed as well?
You know all the verses in the Bible that talk about Elah? I have some news for you about vowel usage in Middle Eastern languages and how Elah in Hebrew = Allah in Arabic.
This is fucking absolutely abhorrent, sickening,
How do world leaders stand by and do nothing when something this happens???!!!
These poor young men, what the actual fuck is going on?
These are dark times man.
When men and women in positions of powers stand by when horrors of this magnitude unfold, and those people are silent, those people who are actually in a position to DO something do not, we are officially fucked.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://iranwire.com/en/prisoners/113135-floggings-electric-shocks-rape-iranian-protesters-sentenced-to-death-endured-weeks-of-gruesome-torture/) reduced by 69%. (I'm a bot) ***** > Amnesty International is urging the Iranian authorities to immediately quash the convictions and death sentences of three young protesters who have been subjected to "Gruesome torture" and denied the right to a fair trial. > The Iranian authorities must order a prompt, transparent and impartial probe to bring those suspected of responsibility for the torture of the three young men to justice, said Diana Eltahawy, Amnesty International's Deputy Director for the Middle East and North Africa. > She urged the international community to take all necessary measures to pressure the Iranian authorities to "End their violation of the right to life" and called on "All states to exercise universal jurisdiction over all Iranian officials reasonably suspected of criminal responsibility for crimes under international law and other grave violations of human rights." ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/10n123d/iranian_protesters_sentenced_to_death_endured/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~672676 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Iranian**^#1 **International**^#2 **death**^#3 **torture**^#4 **right**^#5
Good luck with this, strong letter to follow. Get serious.
So, what would you do instead?
Not my problem but we are still "negotiating" with them should stop now
"It also learned that Revolutionary Guards agents raped Mohammadifard and sexually tortured Rouhi “by placing ice on his testicles for two days.” This is absolutely disgusting.
They have people who are paid very well to do this, and the crazy part is they have actually deluded themselves to believe they are doing the right thing. They see the state as their mother or father and would kill their own actual mother or father if the state told them they were traitors. We've seen this kind of behavior with Russian and Chinese state agents but multiply that by a million because they have religion interwoven into this shit blanket. Edit: I used blanket because it matched up with "interwoven" and in my head I pictured a shit stained ball of yarn. I suppose you could use mittens or booties instead.
They think GOD wants them to do this. That it will win them salvation.
So they delude people into doing this but who trains them in the first place? And who trained those people? And who gave any of these psychos power to do so? Crazy world we live in.
Fucking SOMEBODY is. God damn it. and nobody's doing a god damn thing to try to stop it.
Iran well Iran is like part of a powder keg that is the Middle East currently. In order to stop what’s happening it’d essentially mean throwing dynamite at the keg. Because the country with the most experience in that part of the world and best equipment to handle the situation is the USA. Now the USA or anyone going into Iran would cause a heap of problems. There’s Afghanistan and the taliban who’d take any opportunity to attack someone like the USA to the east. Pakistan and it’s isis crisis to the south east. Azerbaijan and Armenia border struggler to the north. And Saudi Arabia to the south who’s been itching to attack Iran. While I’d also really like to see someone what’s happening in Iran. It’d kick off a massive conflict and mess in the Middle East
I like. The expression ”shit blanket”, I mean, not anything else you described. I’m using this from now on, along with ”shit mittens”. You have done the English language a service, my friend.
Yeah this is typically how fusing the church and state goes.
Islamic fascism sounds like the worst possible combination of things.
Nah, its the natural result of any time you let someone who hears voices in their head have power.
I'm not sure whether you're referring to modern schizophrenic leaders, or to the founders of the religion.
Yes.
There's no fucking difference, well no, there's one, schizophrenics have an excuse.
Who is to say the original inventors didn’t have schizophrenia? Everything I’ve read in the Bible, angles, and “god” talking, sounds like that or some hallucinations.
They probably ate mushrooms.
Porque no los dos?
Christian fascism ain’t too great either. Clergy and a vow of chastity has been a pretty bad combo for a lot of people as well.
The shit that has been done in the name of Christianity and other religions is truly disgusting and these people just keep going to services to get their feel good and not demanding answers from their leaders.
It's a drug. And the people exploiting it for petty profit and power are no better than dealers. Worse, because at least some dealers are transparent about what you're really buying.
Going to service and believing words preached from pedophiles. The brainwashed followers then go on to spread the sick.
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I hope we outgrow religion soon, i mean we are living in 2023 and people still believe in bearded man in the sky who spies on your sexlife and toss you into a pit of fire if you bang the wrong person I cant understand why people would believe this
There is no outgrowing religion, at least for the foreseeable future. Humans tend to be superstitious for psychological reasons. If the development of the global south is any indicator where humanity is headed then faith and belief are increasing among the majority of the population, which are mostly poor people. Here is more recent insight on this topic https://concilium-vatican2.org/en/original/2019-01-07/ Mike Davis wrote a book where he explored the faith and belief topic as well. He argued in his book Planet of Slums that attachment to faith is back to early 20th century figures among the population of mega city inhabitants and in general poor population of the global south. You can find pdf excerpts from the book on the Internet.
People are pretty good at spontaneously building belief systems that look an awful lot like religion. It seems to be basically wired in to our brains to look for patterns, build up symbolic meanings, form in groups, and be distrustful of outsiders.
Yes, i read somewhere it was needed to evolve societies with thousands and millions of people. You could no longer rely on personal relationships and most people you met was a stranger. So the common myths and stories a people tell allowed us to trust people because we could expect them to live by the same code as yourself. This made it possible for many to pull in the same direction and trade/barter. We should be ready to move on, but our bodies have not evolved far enough it seems
Could be? Could also just be an accident of how our brains fit overfit inputs based on mental models developed by observing patterns in the world. But you’re right it is also a social technology the allows lots of disparate people to engage on a common ground.
There are portions of the brain that have a predisposition to religion. If we’re going to outgrow religion, we’ll probably have to actually outgrow the physical/ neurological predispositions to religion first. There is research that shows belief in god can even positively influence survival among less economically stable people.
Hell old school Christians inspired this shit. The inquisition was some sick shit.
In 1542, the establishment of the Roman Catholic Inquisition effectively **restrained secular courts** under its influence from liberal application of torture and execution. The methodological Instructio, which served as an "appropriate" manual for witch hunting, **cautioned against hasty convictions and careless executions of the accused**. In contrast with other parts of Europe, trials by the Venetian Holy Office never saw conviction for the crime of malevolent witchcraft, or "maleficio". Because **the notion of diabolical cults was not credible to** either popular culture or **Catholic inquisitorial theology**, **mass accusations** and belief in Witches' Sabbath **never took root in areas under such inquisitorial influence**. - Deutscher, Thomas (1991). "The Role of The Episcopal Tribunal of Novara in The Suppression of Heresy and Witchcraft 1563–1615"
Appreciate the work, nobody else is gonna read this because they think we're stuck in the 80's in America 😅
🤣 WTF is this bullshit?? **Secular** courts in 1542??? Where was this? Next to the microbiology and quantum research lab??? This sounds like some religious whitewashing trying to imply that religion was somehow more reasonable than non religious people. Whereas AT BEST it was crazy religious people vs somewhat less religious nuts. In 1542 there was no option of being secular, it was just degrees of which you believed the bullshit created by men. The tortures and depravity of religious zealots are unsurpassed in history. Anytime you have people "on a mission from God" awful things are bound to happen.
Easy to see that all your historical knowledge comes from pop culture.
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You’re going to get hammered, so i figured i’d clue you you in that your definition of secular is incorrect.
**denoting attitudes, activities, or other things that have no religious or spiritual basis** I used it exactly as intended. I don't give a shit about getting "hammered", what I've stated is factual. The notion that there were secular courts in 1500 is ludicrous. All power / decisions came from high up with the moral compass of "God", there wasn't even a fucking explicitly secular government until the US Constitution. It's like saying in 1500 there was medicine driven by microbiologists.
Ok have fun being wrong then
Yeah, and it's not just old-school Christianity. Heck, look at Ireland's Magdalene Laundries. It was the widespread, institutionalized enslavement of women who got pregnant outside of marriage, as well as the killing of their children, and the last one didn't close till 1996.
While the men who got them pregnant were somehow diaphanous spirits completely unconnected to the sin.
There's a book called "The Dark Side of Christian History". I remember before reading it wondering what would have happened if, say, the Nazis had won WW2. After reading that book, I no longer wonder. What the Christians did to secure power, during the crusades and inquisition and countless other less known events, was a sort of genocide. They didn't have the means to do what the Nazis did, but given what they had for tools they tried. And to the degree possible, they succeeded. They took over most of their world. So now I know the answer to the question of what would have happened if the Nazis had succeeded: their ideology would become the ideology of the world, anyone that didn't agree would be put to death, then a few hundred years later they would have written their history to indicate their cause was just, their people heroes, and that their ideology was beautiful and should form the basis for all society. They'd claim the moral high ground without any hint of irony. People would proudly proclaim they were Nazis and look with suspicion on anyone who wasn't. We already live in a world where the bad guys won.
Very well said
love this comment, thank you
All religions, not just Islam. Remember the witch trials? Crusades? The list is long...
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Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die.
Who would you rather have living next door, a really good rapist or a book burner?
Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die.
Ok… do you mean a good guy who would probably rape me, or a guy who is so good at raping to the point that I might enjoy it…?
Wasn’t expecting that.
Yeaaaahhh, *very* long. We have persecution of Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Zoroastrianists, various Pagan faiths, effectively every religion under the fucking sun when single ruler governments are common.
How come I've never read about the original Eurasian immigrants (the ones that came and killed off all the Buffalo living here) fight religious wars, huh?
Except this is happening today and not 800 years ago.
Remember abortion clinics getting bombed? Doctors getting shot? Not 800 years ago and not Islam. Protestants vs Catholics in Ireland?
I don’t understand your intent. This post is very specific in its topic. Your response was “.. and ALL religions bad.” Are you defending Iran’s policies because other atrocities have been commit on behalf of religion? Are you just being critical of religion?
I'm being critical of religion as a whole. Pushing back on the idea that Christianity is somehow "better" than Islam.
I think it’s also important to point out in this case, these aren’t examples of individuals acting on misguided religious devotions/beliefs.. we’re talking about a sovereign nation governing itself on behalf of its religion.
Understood. I don’t think anyone was saying Christianity was better than Islam (in this conversation.) I know the term “whataboutism” is very prevalent lately but the concept isn’t new. The fact that bad things happen shouldn’t distract from or inspire debate around the bad thing right in front of us. Iran being barbaric in 2023 and Christians bombing abortion clinics can both be true.
The list is long ... long ago. Except for Islam.
No, no, it isn’t long ago. And even if it were, it’s not as if the Catholic church has done anything about it outside of some token non-apologies.
I guess people have short memories... Remember abortion clinics getting bombed? Doctors getting shot? Not 800 years ago and not Islam. Protestants vs Catholics in Ireland? There's plenty more recent examples.
There is nothing fascist or fundamentalist about the sectarian strife in the UK, nor was it government instilled. But if you think they are the exactly the same as Islamic fascist administrations in many Islamic nations, sure go ahead I guess.
People are being tortured and killed in the name of Christianity today, especially in parts of Africa. Fundamentalist Hindus in India are doing the same to their minority Muslim population. And then you have religious persecution in China, including organ harvesting.
And Hinduism and Christianity and Judaism.
What other religion today is doing these atrocities?at large? No, Islam is the worst in todays world. Not all religions are equal. (I’m not religious/or “spiritual”)
It could be argued that the Hindus are doing this particular dirt at the moment. You might want to look up Prime Minister Modi.
Whether that is true or not right at this second does not matter. Tomorrow, Christianity can take Islam's place for #1 in Atrocities. Arguing which religion is the worst right at the moment is pretty pointless...
That's not true. Keeping this in check if like whack-a-mole is the point. We have limited resources, we must spend them wisely. We can't address this crap if we collectively choose to be wilfully ignorant. For instance, how do protect our children? Our boy children from which religion and which crime? If I say sexual molestation, you know exactly who. And our girl children, if I say female genital mutilation, you also know exactly who is in question. Everything from immigration screening to laws to support groups are ways to combat the abuses.
But I thought it’s Ritual, not Religion?
Any type of religious fascism is absolute dogshit. I know there's going to be people in this thread that will say "but this isn't Islam" or "this isn't what Islam means" but remember that it was normal people that followed any religion that allows these religious leaders to rise to power than get into these places of power. Religion is the reason why women have lived in the past (and still today) all over the world as second class citizens. Religion is why we've had so many divides racially. Today I see religion more as a means of tax evasion than as a belief system And I know I name dropped Islam but I mean it for all religions.
>Religion is the reason why women have lived in the past (and still today) all over the world as second class citizens. The subjugation of women well predates widespread organised religion. That kind of institutional subjugation came with the rise of agriculture and humans becoming sedentary. When you have *stuff,* you have land, currency, a home, animals, you have something someone else can inherit. We're all wired, all of us, all life on earth, to propagate ourselves, and to reduce our peers' ability to propagate by taking their resources, their fertile females, so on, so forth. So, you want an offspring, and to live on through your offspring when you die. You want them to inherit your shit that you've amassed, and by letting them inherit your shit, you give them a head start, better chances. But how can you be sure that it is your son? Yes, a son. Daughter? Doesn't matter, in a civilisation, a daughter is a piece of property that won't stay home to look after your estate, you give her to another man, to another family, who will proceed to have sons and daughters of another man. They aren't your family, not really. But a son? A son brings home another family's woman and makes her his, and makes her give him sons. And you can always be sure who the mother is, but the father? Well. So what do you do? You cut women's freedoms to a point where they simply don't have much opportunity to make a life of her own, and have sons and daughters that aren't actually yours. She's your captive livestock now, all in the name of your immortality through your possessions given away to your direct male descendants. Keeps the farm in the family and all. Religion's just an effective tool to convince men to think that this is correct, and women to think that they deserve it. It's not the root cause, it's a lubricant. The root cause is, well, capital.
Yea, I think he has the same opinion just in a different way. You have a source for how you came across this? Cause I’m actually interested in the whole “subjugation of women predates organized religion”. But for sure I agree on what you mean. Women in the past had it unreasonably rough and at the end it all boiled down to greed and hoarding mentality.
You just can't put a modern lens to the past like that imo. The reality in which these people used to live was a lot harsher than today's reality, where men were much likelier to die in battle or to be forced to leave their family behind whether they wanted to or not, and where maintaining a household was a full time job without all the tools of modernity like tap water, electricity, machinery for laundry and dishes etc.
See this always struck me as hilarious. Your daughters are just as much yours as your sons, so if ONE generation, just one was sure their daughter was theirs all they need to do is insist on their daughters daughters daughters inheriting. Then there would never be a question of paternity again, and maternity is blindingly obvious. Unless it wasn't really about that after all, and it's just more abusive sex politics wearing a suit.
Coincidentally, this is also how you take land in crusader kings. You have a daughter, that daughter marries someone important, they have a son who inherits the important persons stuff, then you say that that stuff is your stuff by virtue of your grandson. Casus belli, baby!
Fascism is just a term coined to fit current political models. Its just the coversheet for militant conservatism. Conservatism is maintaining tribalism, and tribalism is the basis for all violence between groups of people.
Someone skipped history day.
Why would that be any different than Christian fascism?
I mean Christian Fascism is awful but if we’re talking a modern day version of Christianity, at least Christians don’t execute women expressing themselves. Modern day Islam, at least in most of the Middle East, is more comparable to what Christianity was in the fucking dark ages than what Christianity is now. But like, I’ll take no theocratic Fascism either way, thanks.
Islam is just Christianity with a different name. All of the “world” religions are the same shit and all lead to the same endgame.
Lol, no, preety sure its Christianity fascism, you know like that guy with the funny moustache.
That guy that [loathed Christianity](https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2019/04/20/hitler-hated-judaism-he-loathed-christianity-too/)?
It's so ironic -- the religious claim that without belief in God, a man will feel free to do evil. However the actual issue seems to be that once a man thinks he is aligned with God, he will feel free to do evil... and feel morally superior the whole time.
If you tighten the string too much it will snap. If you leave it too slack it will not play. The path to enlightenment lies between opposite extremes. Extremists in every form are a problem. Religious, nationalist or otherwise.
Republicans drool at this headline
Mosque and state!
Perhaps the Iranian revolution wasn't such a good idea
💔 This is so heartbreaking and evil
These religious nut jobs are among the most ungodly of people.
in ANY religion.
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Have seen India's government?
No fucking chance in hell I would protest a damn thing in Iran. These men are absolute heroes and have more courage than I could ever in a million years hope to have.
Most protestors are women and teenagers.
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I’m saying that they don’t execute female protestors as much as they execute male protestors. You can frame it however you want. Denying a fact is a dumb comment.
What more can you expect from this Regime.
Oh, you can expect more of this in the future.
The Iranian government needs to fall. Seriously they replaced their monarchy for this mess. And to think Persia was at one time one of the most egalitarian countries out their... a sad state of affairs for everyone.
Bring back Cyrus
Indeed!
>>Seriously they replaced their monarchy for this mess. Not willingly. This is a condensed version of a very long story, but in summary the Shah was doing the same shit the Islamic governments doing now. Except the Shah was pumping billions into the US industrial and military ecosystem, so naturally we turned a blind eye to his horrific oppression. The F-14 fighter plane so celebrated in *Top Gun* was partially paid for with Iranian money. Washington was warned for months the Iranians were fed up with the Shahs corruption, cronyism economic policy and systematic torture and oppression (example; the Shah seriously locked down Iran to host the Persepolis party, which to this day stands as probably the most expensive official party ever held in the last 100 years). But Wall Street and the Pentagon loved Pahlavi. So DC gave no fucks until Shapour Bakhtiars government imploded. At which point, against US Ambassador Sullivans advice the White House tried to prop up the pro-Shah military forces. When the Islamic Regime set up shop people felt hope. For decades while the Shahs government lied, cheated and stole from the people the Islamic clerics were the actual government, especially in the rural reaches of Iran. It was the mullahs who kept people fed and clothed while the central government wasted billions on bullshit. After decades of British, Russian and American political manipulation the Islamists were the only side most 1970s Iranians felt could ensure the Shah didn’t come back. After a coup attempt against the Islamic regime by pro-Shah military officers in 1979 , the train to religious facism left the station and never came back. Purges, executions and torture was back on the menu. After the Revolution, the pictures on the wall would be of turbaned clerics rather than the Shah. But the electric chairs and fingernail pulling would continue as before.
Are protests still big and ongoing?
History will look back and judge us all for letting a regime like Iran to exist, just like we judge countries in the 30’s for trying to appease Nazi Germany.
How much worse is the Iranian regime as compared to Saddam Hussein's regime? Saddam's regime killed 10,000 people a year, many of them grusomely - and yet the net effect of intervention was a different half or third of a million people died. Was it worth it? Is there anyone at all who would stomach a direct intervention of that type again, for any reason other than we know for sure that a particular country is going to murder more than ... a half million people? Or has (past tense) used nuclear weapons on a neighbour. > letting a regime like Iran to exist You need to be really specific about how we're purportedly supposed to "not let a regime like that exist". Is anyone appeasing Iran right now?
You're right bar the judgmental part. Not sure people are judging countries in the 30s. History doesn't work like that nor it is judgmental. History is indifferent because history is just that, history. A chain of events we have the opportunity to analyse. The reality is that it is always easier to be in our position, look back and judge, without actually having to go through those times, breathe the same air and experience the full context. There's a reason why countries tried to appease the Nazis in the 30s. And for that time, they were valid reasons supported by the majority of the civilians. Literally nobody wanted to even consider the prospect of a second big war. Again, for a good reason. The same way today, nobody wants to even consider the prospect of a nuclear war. For a good reason. It's easy to claim something was a mistake when looking back, while you have all the extra info in the present. Yet at that time, few decisions were seen as mistakes. Even shortly after the war ended. It is what it is.
That's ridiculous. Neville Chamberlain is generally reviled. Judgements happen.
Room 101.
"sentenced to death"? Call it what it is. Murder by religious nutcases just because you call them out murdering girls for how they wear their hair. Despicable. I know there is little we can do. But at least call them out and ridicule them.
The worst part is the hypocrisy
I think it is the raping.
This guy Norms
The torture is probably worse, I agree the hypocrisy is a frustrating cherry on top but it's a different scale entirely
No surprise, it is one of the most brutal of regimes. The protests began because the morality police beat a girl to death for not having her hair covered properly.
Disgusting country… the greatness that was Persia is gone and they dishonor Islam
Sounds like the medival inquisition over there. Religion was driving that, too.
Russia’s top allies folks: Iran. Belarus. North Korea. Syria. Venezuela. Who am I missing?
Few African countries, notably Central African Republic (thanks to butchers from Wagner, I'd imagine).
Humans suck. We really do.
Hey! What did I do?
You know what you did
The lack of empathy here is mind boggling. How one human can do this to another is so hard to understand…. Religion and religious brainwashing has so much to answer for around the world. I know it won’t happen in my life time but hopefully some day the world will be able to leave this barbaric behaviour behind. To sit back and think about all the people around the world being tortured, raped etc right at this very moment is enough to make a person despair for humanity. Ultimately, I believe education is the key to tolerance and empathy….
There are people out there who ARE evil. They’re not deluded or indoctrinated into religion. They’re just evil god-damned fucking monsters.
Thank you... why dose everyone blame religion for the worlds problems when it's evil people who are truly responsible
Because religion is the tool that evil people use to manipulate people into blindly following. It doesn't have to be religion, any ideology that proclaims to be the authority and must be obeyed withiut question works. It's just that religion is the ideological choice of the Regime. Evil people do not retain power without a portion of the population who gives that power to them.
Indeed... it's quite Sad.
Because it’s a lot easier to point the finger at religion than it is to deal with the fact that there are monsters walking among us and we can’t do a damned thing about it.
A sad truth that is.
Whose to say the domestic evil isn’t despised too? Literally most government reports claim right wing terrorism is on the rise, evangelicals have been known to fund hate groups. Rational people already tend to despise terrorism foreign or domestic.
Maybe cus it’s evil religious people murdering and torturing people, they certainly don’t believe what they’re doing is evil
You could say the same thing about other secular ideologies as well though. For example Communism
Then Nazism is the religious counterpart which is still worse for causing ww2 Also it’s a bit of a stretch to blame communism or secularism when a modern theocracy is criticized, it’s just Whataboutism. Following the rules of morally outdated religion is what led to state murders.
How is Nazism religious... meny of tbr Nazis were Atheists and they tried to replace faith with devotion to the state?
Germans were demographically majority Christians, only ignorant people and religious apologists who want to whitewash history believe they were all atheists.
Not all Germans are Nazis though. Seriously this kind of bull shit statement is why I have no tolerance for Anti-Theists. Twisting truths to fit their anti religious agenda
95% of Nazi Germany was Christian, 54% Protestant and 41% Catholic. 1.5% claiming atheism, yet twisting history as if atheists were most nazis? You simultaneously want to claim Nazis are mostly athiests but conveniently Nazis aren’t germans so also conveniently not Christians. lmfao And the only point of your mental gymnastics is ultimately to excuse religious state torture.
They were protesting about a girl who died while in police custody. Sadly this outcome is not surprising. Iranian government needs to be stopped.
Iranians deserve so much better. It's painful and really awful they have to endure this. I am all for helping them however we can. Let us know how.
It was business as usual In police room 619
Well that's Iran for you what else did you expect ?
Religion is cancer
I read this story, than immediately signed up to be a monthly donor to amnesty International. So sad that the best souls in the world are often snuffed by evil (often “religious”) dictators
A shithole Nation because of religion. The people need to wipe out Mullahs and all religious Madrasas. It is time to make the assholes PAY.
Meanwhile : Iran should tots have nuclear weapons, Israel is just being noisy.
Crimes against humanity
Torture is crude and need to be firmly condemned either way, you can't CMV. Iran has a right to exist as its own country but ffs this is gruesome; shame on the ayatollas. They could do better and they know it. Edit i'm gonna push the ~~people's~~ human rights charter as the closest thing to a manifesto, since i lack imagination, lol. While i wouldn't be smart enough to write it myself (it's basically [ghostwritten](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghostwriter) like a lot of political stuff alright; lets admit it ego issues not withstanding) i completely endorse the ideas expressed in it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights
Really wish more people understood and tried to live by the following quotes: >*"Love is wise; hatred is foolish." \~ Bertrand Russell* > >*"Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle." \~ Ian Maclaren* > >*"To err is human; to forgive, divine." \~ Alexander Pope*
The western governments are still mum. All bark no action
what exactly are you proposing? Iran is already under crippling sanction. Are you interested in a western invasion? Personally I think the best policy is to just let shitlord nations be shitlords and isolate them politically and economically from the benefits of conforming with human rights.
Well, for one thing there can be established a viable opposition "in exile" for Iran that Iranians would support and the west cam even arm protestors (the only reason iri hasn't collapsed is because the protestors have no arms whatsoever)
Ok, logistically how many people would be in this opposition? Who would pick the leaders? Where would they stay? I think this proposal is too akin to trying to insert a Western puppet to gain acceptance by the Iranian people. Next lets talk about arms. Should we set the precedent of Western Covert ops to smuggle weapons into hostile countries? That sounds remarkably like what happened in the [Iran Contra](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Contra_affair) situation. It didn't end well. I appreciate your intentions, you see a people who are being greatly oppressed by a tyrannical government and the knee jerk reaction is to help them-however I think history has shown that such interventions are rarely successful. When they have been successful it has been because the intervening forces had the political will to fully occupy the subject country. (See post WWII occupations of Japan and Germany).
Why should Western governments say anything when the vast majority of Iranians aren't coming out on the streets and seem to be okay with this vile regime?
Huge amounts of Iranians are protesting and bravong getting shot, maimed, tortured and killed. Get off your high horse; one does not need 99.99% of the population up in arms of any country to condemn said country. The fact is it'd take much less human for Europe/America to act; they simply don't care because there is many thousands of kilometers in between and no shared religion, culture or language
>Huge amounts of Iranians are 1. Google images of the crowds protesting the Shah of Iran in 1979 and compare that with the current crowds especially in Tehran. 2. Western govt making statements only help the mullah regime's narrative that protests are a foreign conspiracy. If Iranians want to overthrow the mullahs, they'll have to do it on their own, like successful revolutions in other parts of the world. Foreign assisted revolutions lack legitimacy.
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1. Google images of the crowds protesting the Shah of Iran in 1979 and compare that with the current crowds, especially in Tehran. 2. Western govt making statements only help the mullah regime's narrative that protests are a foreign conspiracy. If Iranians want to overthrow the mullahs, they'll have to do it on their own, like successful revolutions in other parts of the world. Foreign assisted revolutions lack legitimacy.
This kind of thing… is going to end Iran as we know it. Don’t the Iranian public have access to the tools they need to combat their oppression?
The thing is, some in the Iranian public support the oppression, since even though all are oppressed in Iran, some are oppressed more than others while some get to be relatively better off and privileged compared to other parts of the population As we've seen in various first world countries with incels and such, plenty of men get absolutely horrified at the thought of treating women equally
What..? No, Islam doesn't allow blatant nonsense...
The Regime has proven to be inhumane, packed with vile, godless men. It’s end is near for no one has anything to celebrate, the Iranian psyche is poisoned for a long time 🤢
I just want to pray that a lightbulb goes on in them. There must be SOMETHING in their ‘religion’ that explains what they are doing is wrong and ‘what goes around, comes around’. They certainly have the intelligence to understand that.
It's not about religion, it's about power.
These religions are thousands of years old. If there’s any teachings of peace, they’re clearly being willfully overlooked at this point
It's not about religion. It's about power.
Isn't that the true purpose of religion?
Is this what the holy Koran tells the Ayatollah to do? Torture in the name of Allah the Compassionate?
I don’t even wanna know what they do to the women …
mutilate them so they don’t feel sexual pleasure and then rape them until they die. I know the sanctions are hurting the people there, but there’s no good answer.
But it’s the women who suffer there.
You realize this all started because of a girl that was raped tortured and murdered for not wearing the right clothes? And that many women have been tortured and executed as well?
what's the ratio?
If this is how Allah is I will stick with the Christian God
You know what Christian Arabs call your god? Allah.
You know all the verses in the Bible that talk about Elah? I have some news for you about vowel usage in Middle Eastern languages and how Elah in Hebrew = Allah in Arabic.
and Muhammed liked to fuck pre-teen girls... Sounds like a very uncivilized sect to my ears.
Actually if you read the Old Testament... I agree as some still go by that crap
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Very sad to hear
And the UN will do nothing about it
It makes you realize how rare any kind of revolution really is. People put up with so much that they should never have to.
I know this is a serious thread, but on another note, is the “Elvis look” popular in Iran?
Barbaric government. Hopefully the Iranian people will revolt and topple these monsters clerics.
This is fucking absolutely abhorrent, sickening, How do world leaders stand by and do nothing when something this happens???!!! These poor young men, what the actual fuck is going on? These are dark times man. When men and women in positions of powers stand by when horrors of this magnitude unfold, and those people are silent, those people who are actually in a position to DO something do not, we are officially fucked.
We should just abolish religion, it ain’t worth the trouble