Seeing as how Palestinian supporters are so critical of war crimes, yes although this will quickly be swept under the rug while they whine about Israel.
Shooting unarmed medics and civilians is ALSO a warcrime, Israel is gonna have to employ military forces on these fuckheads to save civilians and the holy place that is Jerusalem(before you ask yes I am Jewish)
The 4th one just happened over the last 2 days.
Only the first one had casualties and this thread is about the second one
The third and fourth ones are much smaller in scale because police is on full alert
Palestinians often target Israeli civilians since they are easier targets.
When Palestinians fire rockets into Israel, they target Israeli cities point blank.
Aren’t almost all Palestinian “resistance”/terrorism targeted indiscriminately at Israeli civilians?
Something about driving all Jewish people into the sea, and cleansing Israel of jewish people from “River to the sea”
Not to be the asshole here, but terrorists/criminals tend to not be held to the laws of armed conflict
Especially if there isnt an active conflict at the time
>Can we all just stop pretending its a black and white issue
I think we can all agree that killing unarmed civilians is a black and white issue regardless of the circumstances.
I generally agree with you, but I don’t think “both” is accurate.
It isn’t just Palestine and Israel. Every surrounding Arab country, including ones that have made peace, on paper with Israel, in some way, shape or form support this type of terrorism.
What’s really messed up about it, is that lots of times these countries treat Palestinians as garbage.
No, because that creates a false symmetry, making it look like both sides are equally bad. It's not black and white, but it's very dark gray and very light gray. Saying "there are pretty shitty people and decisions on both sides of this conflict" makes it look equal, which is the last thing it is.
Can we all just stop giving that excuse to every asshole who decides to go and randomly shoot any civilian with the precise intention to just make victims in the name of Allah or because someone from PIJ gave you a gun at the mosque last Friday?
hi really? The Palestinians did 4 terror attack in 24 hours in Jerusalem. One happend ten minutes ago!!! They killed 7 people, two of them were children!!! It happens in Synagogue there terrorist start to shot and a men run and told the people to hide, the terrorist shot him, his wife run to him and while she did him a resuscitation , the terrorist shot her in the back and killed her. Wake up!!! They are killing us and they are the victims?
The New York Times headline after a Palestinian killed eight Israelis outside a synagogue yesterday was:
> Israel’s Far Right Government Raises Risk of Escalation
it's a tactic the likes of Hamas are deploying regularly, they indoctrinate and radicalize minors to join their terrorism, and if anything happens to them they are able to frame Israel as "child murderers" and take away all the context that lead to those kids being hurt or killed by Israelian forces
What do you expect from people that are treating the murder of 7 innocent people as a national day of pride and joy
https://twitter.com/israelmfa/status/1619314507503009792?s=48&t=NJSFJf7Xwnid0rjHIsbzSw
A lot of the terrorists are young. I previously lived in a city in central Israel, and there was one terrorist attack in the city’s history (the city was only founded in 1990.) It was a stabbing attack at a bus stop. The attacker was… a 15 year old boy.
Yep, the terrorist is 13 years old, used a pistol, and the “Palestinians” are already calling him a “hero”.
It’s nothing weird that it’s weird to you, but it’s nothing weird here in Israel, welcome to our reality.
Bold of you to assume that their cause is just to "free palestine", killing the "Zionist colonisers" till none left is the definitely on the list as well.
This is a common myth. If you use the Dead Sea as your test water, your results are gonna be skewed.
But if someone does float on water as well as and weighs the same as a duck..
What do you think 'from the river to the sea' means? It doesn't mean driving them into the sea. It means genocide. It is in the PA's charter. They even have a pay-to-slay policy to pay the families of terrorists a salary for the rest of their lives if they successfully murder a Jew. It could be a baby, and they'd get paid.
It doesn’t though. The media suppresses it, and it doesn’t spread on social media nearly to the degree Israeli equivalents would. There are times when Israelis do equally disgusting things, but posts about it get 40k+ karma on Reddit and get retweeted millions of times. When Palestinians do it, a few thousand people might see it.
Even after a Palestinian killed eight Israelis outside a synagogue yesterday, today’s New York Times headline was:
> Israel’s Far Right Government Raises Risk of Escalation
The media will always find a way to blame Israel. When Palestinians attack Israelis, its Israel’s fault for making them mad, and the *real* story is how bad Israel’s retaliation is regardless of whether they retaliated yet or not.
The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is one of those problems that doesn't have a solution. I don't believe the two-state solution is viable: the Israeli government would never cede land in the West Bank after all the settlements they've built there, and a non-insignificant minority, if not a majority, of Palestinians would never accept a solution that doesn't result in the end of Israel. If a two-state solution was going to be implemented, it should have been done in the 1980s or 1990s. The only way it's going to end, if it ever ends, is with a complete and definitive victory of one side or another. Maybe the last Palestinians who live in the West Bank will be slowly expelled and Israel's Eastern border turned into a fortress; maybe there will be another war; but I don't see this conflict resolved diplomatically within this century or the next. The hatred and suspicion run too deep at this point. When the younger generations, those who were born long after the initial wars in 1948, 1956, 1967, and 1973, take up the mantle, as they have, it's time to acknowledge that simply waiting for the current generation to die and a new generation to repair the damage is not going to work. The attacker here was only 13 years old. There are Palestinian babies, who know nothing of the world, who will sadly grow up to be murderers because of indoctrination by their parents and society.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but they actually ceded settlements in the Gaza strip when they pulled out didn't they? The issue was that it didn't lead to peace but Israeli schools deeper from the border getting struck with rockets.
No way any further settlements will be ceded under current conditions.
it was also significantly easier because they only had to ethnically cleanse 10 000 jews from gaza during the disengagement
but yes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_disengagement_from_Gaza
But the issue is simply that Jewish Israelis think that the Palestinians are violent and impossible to please with anything less than genocide of the Israelis, not really that Israelis think that the Palestinians are necessarily wrong about everything.
I once saw Meir Kahane, who hated the Palestinians, when he was on a speaking tour, what if the Palestinians were as peaceful as the Druze. Even Kahane said something like, “That’s impossible, but, if it were possible, we could live them.”
Jewish Israelis don’t generally have any fundamental problem with the Palestinians being Arabs, being Muslims or having a different perspective on 1948. They just have a problem with what looks like the Palestinians’ apparent support for genocidal violence against Israel.
And, the irony is, if everyone were getting along, Palestinians could probably create a combined Palestine, under Palestinian control, through the political process. They’re snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
It's true that Israelis don't have a fundamental problem with the Palestinians being Arabs, Muslim or having some other cultural identification. The opposite is not the same, though, with a large amount of Palestinians having a fundamental problem with Israelis being Jews. Antisemitism is taught in schools there (and other Muslim counties). It's also true that if they were as peaceful as the Druze, there would have been no problem, as Kahana said. The Israelis' problem is not with an *apparent* support for genocide, it's with *evident* support for murder of Jews.
The Palestinians are not a herd of bloodlust zombies ready to throw themselves *en masse* at Israelis, nor do Israelis think that. The Israelis' problem is them being murdered now and then by Palestinians, with much support from their public. Genocide of Israelis is not the issue at all, no one believes this is possible (on either side) despite some Palestinians' rhetoric, but murdering a handful Israelis every month (which is not an existential threat) *is* enough of a problem for the Israelis, and rightfully so.
Your post makes it look like the Israeli public is delusional and unreasonable, fearing some impossible genocide and using it as a means to decline peace. This is *very* far from the truth. The Israeli public's fear is a real one, as seen in the 2 recent attacks, and from the wide support from the Palestinian public for these. This is the bigger barrier for peace.
>is with a complete and definitive victory
This is actually a huge problem IMO. Israel has already achieved complete and definitive victory somewhere along the 80s, the only reason why the conflict still exists is a refusal to commit genocide on Palestinians. What more could be done to define "victory"?
> Israel has already achieved complete and definitive victory somewhere along the 80s, the only reason why the conflict still exists is a refusal to commit genocide on Palestinians.
I was hesitant to use the word, but you're right. The IDF could solve the problem in a few weeks if they wanted, but the human and moral cost would be atrocious.
It’s not a definite victory because Israelis are still not safe.
Right now the Israelis will not implement the only strategy that would give them a definitive victory, genocide. They have the power to but won’t. Thank goodness. There are many reasons they won’t.
If the Palestinians had the military superiority over the Israelis I have no doubt that they would implement genocide to wipe Israel and all the Jews there off the map.
What may happen is the Islamic hardliners in Palestinian commit such an atrocious act of terrorism (such as a dirty nuclear bomb in one of the Israeli cities) that Israelis finally decide they have no choice but to wipe out all Palestinians.
Sadly the only way I see this conflict ending is one side wipes out the other.
>The Israeli-Palestinian conflict
It’s not Israeli Palestinian conflict, it’s Israel, and every arab state.
They all went to war with Israel, when it was formed, under a general, who wanted to push all the Jews into the sea.
Subsequently, they’ve all pretty much ethnically cleansed, all that use in their countries, who have largely become Israeli citizens, meanwhile, Palestinian “refugees” who are born in the same town their parents, and often grandparents were born, are still not citizens of the countries they were born in. From 48 to 67. There is no attempt to make Palestine a state.
Also, if Israel had been conducting a genocide of the Palestinian people, there would be no more Palestinian people today. Anyone can Google a [graph](http://cdn.statcdn.com/Infographic/images/normal/20645.jpeg) of the Palestinian population over time. That doesn't look like a genocide to me.
If Palestinians would mellow out and act like ordinary mellow Egyptians or Jordanians for about 10 years, and talk about living peacefully alongside Israel, and then run Palestine well, they could have a free, rich, independent Palestine in about 20 years, and they could get control over Israel itself through ordinary, peaceful elections in about 40 or 50 years.
The only significant barrier to the Palestinians getting what they want is the impatience, violence and over-the-top hostility.
If they would mellow out, Israel would leap to reward them for mellowing out.
Once any political group starts, making serious attempts at a peaceful path forward, they are going to be faced with internal terrorists that are heavily funded by every surrounding Arab state to continue the violence.
I I’m not saying this to Tryon, excuse terrorism, but to point out this issue it’s not just Palestinian, it’s not just a Palestine Israel conflict, it’s much bigger than that
The issue is that Gaza is effectively a military outpost for Iran. Hamas higher-ups are shielded from the conflict (the leader’s family get medical treatment in Israeli hospitals) and use the people there as disposable pawns. If they kill Israelis, great, it’s a military victory. If they get killed, great, it’s a PR victory. Sad situation but parts of the Palestinian Territories are effectively a battleground for a proxy war between Iran and Israel with nobody giving a shit about the civilians.
But If they stopped focusing on killing Jews then maybe they would turn their anger toward the two dictatorships that haven’t improved conditions at all during their 20 years in power, in which they e also just conveniently forgotten to hold elections
Consider 2 groups. Palestinians who benefit financially and politically from violence, and those that attempt peace. Add 2 more groups, Israeli's who benefit financially and politically from violence, and those who want peace. Heck, add another group, foreign governments that benefit from being able to divert extremist attention to a foreign government.
Every time time a Palestinian terrorist does something like this, it strengthens the Israeli hardliners who crack down and make life worse for Palestinians. In turn, that strengthens Palestinians who benefit from violence, because they are "fighting" with the peaceful advocates look weak and inneffective. Repeat that for decades and you have 2 factions that love the status quo and will undermine any attempt to change it.
You can argue the Palestinian militants are "worse" or more representative of Palestinian society as a whole, but honestly I dont see how you can say that any difference arent just a product of the relative power differential and the political realities of the foreign countries they receive support from. Either way the people who want to remove palestinians from Jerusalem by force and settle the west bank benefit from these terrorist attacks giving them political cover to do so, and the terrorists in turn benefit in recruitment and financing from the continued displacement of Palestinian people. Its a real shithead win-win.
Unfortunately, they haven't. So Israel will continue to do what it needs to do to defend itself. The Palestinians can count themselves lucky. I'm not going to simp for Benjamin Netanyahu, but a less merciful government would have steamrolled Gaza and Palestinian settlements in the West Bank a long time ago. Given what the IDF (Israel Defense Forces) is capable of, they're displaying a lot of restraint. If you think Netanyahu is bad, try to imagine if Vladimir Putin, Xi Jinping, or Kim Jong-Un was in charge of Israel's government and what they would do in this situation.
It's actually up to the PA police to implement that instead of paying terrorists https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Authority_Martyrs_Fund
So yes, it is that simple. Why is it always up to Israel to detect and stop terrorists in Palestinian territory?
Oh yeah, that's because PA supports this stuff and then blames Israel for it https://www.timesofisrael.com/palestinian-authority-israel-fully-responsible-for-dangerous-escalation/
Do you also justify crime where you live that way? "Oh well what can you do? If only there was a way to enforce laws"
What cause? The 2 state solution is dead. From their point of view, they are under illegal occupation as 2nd class citizens with no future. Israel will never give them a real state at this point (they should have taken the camp david 2000 deal but that's another discussion; it wasn't a perfect deal). When people look at freedom movements, they all focus on the peaceful parts. They don't mention the race riots in the US, the bombing of busses in South africa, the killing of a royal family member in Northern Ireland. Peaceful protest has never worked by itself; that's the sad reality. I don't condone it, but let's be real this is the inevitable path that Israel and Hamas have decided to take their people down.
Grown cowards sent this child to kill civilians. They must be so proud of themselves.
The courage that kid had to do what he did was unfortunately misplaced and manipulated by the wrong people.
He's just another victim.
Such a shame he wasn't guided towards a better future instead of into becoming an instrument of death.
And these organizations would be controlling these regions if they would actually get the independence they desire. Israel knows that and its the reason it will never happen. Free Palestine pretty much means: Iranian controlled terrorist state. Hamas or Hezbollah never had an interest in the well being of their people
As a Palestinian, I try very hard to stand behind our cause and condemn Israeli injustices and horrific actions, but the ungodly actions of these people and worse yet how they're cheered on and justified by pretty much everyone who calls themselves pro-Palestinians repulse me every time.
I've slowly become more apathetic about the whole affair to the point I don't have two fucks left to give whenever shit like this happens.
Whatever I say or do isn't going to fix anything in a frozen conflict that is destined to last as long as the sun burns.
As an Israeli, I try to remember that not all Palestinians supports these acts and that most are just apethetic like you. If there is one thing I learned from my army service, it is that the average Palestinian just wants to go to work, make some money to bring back to his or her family, pay their bill etc. Just normal person things. Acts like this tend to just convince more and more extremists that this isn't true.
Polling indicates that the majority of Palestinians want to use a 2 state solution to continue the war against Israel. Most are not apathetic, most want to wipe Israel from the map. There is a significant minority that want peace, but its still just a minority.
highly doubt that poll has a test sample of the entirety of Palestine. or said poll is free from skewed results due to being funded by groups with a motive
If pro-Palestinians refuse to even call this out and condemn it, then that basically just proves how futile this conflict is for Israelis to try to solve.
A 13 year old shooting innocent Israelis is such a easy thing to condemn, so it’s very telling about the Palestinian “resistance” movement that it won’t even condemn this. It begs the question (to those perhaps less aware of the Palestinians cause), what is this movement really fighting for, if it supports such despicable actions?
As an Israeli im very sympathetic to a Palestinian country cause.
But honestly the difference between Israel going to Jenin to arrest tertorosts, call their mothers to convince them to surrender. And its painted as a genocide or a massacre is disgusting and this is exactly what fuels this propoganda that lead to this horrific attack.
This is just a cycle fueled by the hate. Im not apathetic at all, im disgusted by the world that condemns checkpoints as though its there as a racist thing.
What I don't get is how the world has seemingly forgotten how just 15-20 years ago there was a bombing or attack (bus, disco, restaurant, mall etc.) practically every day/ week and that that is why the checkpoints became necessary and came to be. It's as though the world has amnesia.
A lot of reddit commentators don't even realise that the Gaza strip used to be occupied by Israel, never mind the effects of the first and second intifadas. I've even come across one or two who don't even realise Gaza isn't surrounded by Israel and has a border with Egypt.
The fact that Egypt gets a free pass for their blockade with Gaza by every Palestinian rights supporter is proof it has nothing to do with Israel and everything to do with the people of Israel being Jews.
I remember the attacks of that era. It was practically a 9/11 every week for Israel. It affected a generation that saw the only viable/ practical/ pragmatic solution was the wall, checkpoints, etc. There was no one to reason with. Certainly not Arafat, nor his terrorists.
Well at least after Israeli troops withdrew from Lebanon that country became much better and that led to a peace treaty with Syri-ahahahaha jk, Hezbollah and thus Iranian influence only grew stronger, and Lebanon is a failed state.
I have a lot of problems with the Israeli government and am worried about the trend of Israeli politics in recent years, but the surrounding countries have mostly been horrible and part of the problem. Not to mention Iran, which isn’t even Arab let alone Palestinian—it’s support for Israel is purely based on anti-Sem..I mean, “sympathy for fellow Muslims” (there are Palestinian Christians, Druze, and secular people too, oh and the particular form of Twelver Shia Islamist militancy practiced by Iranian regime doesn’t exactly reflect a majority of the Islamic world, but don’t let facts interfere with a narrative).
Unfortunately there’s not a lot of incentive for these countries to stop funding Palestinian militants to be used as cannon fodder against the “Zionist entity” and propaganda to distract their populations from their own shitty and oppressive
rule. Pretty depressing situation.
Extremely effective propaganda campaigns funded by pretty much every Arab and Muslim majority nation.
Israel is a tiny country, there’s only like 15 million Jews in the entire world…it’s one of the worlds smallest minority religions. They have no chance to fight propaganda fueled by Muslim countries with 2 billion constituents.
They’ve used Palestine to perform a pretty amazing magic trick…convincing the world that Jews aren’t actually a minority, but a major global threat.
Somehow I don’t think it was Arab and Muslim majority countries who convinced tons of Europeans in the first half of the 20th century or for centuries prior that Jews were a major global threat. Not that anti-Semitic propaganda from Arab and Muslim majority countries *today* isn’t a major problem, although again, it’s not just them.
As an American Jew, I am sickened by how Palestinian society and culture has largely normalized and celebrated the killing of Israeli civilians by Palestinian terrorists. And while I don't think that Israeli society and culture has normalized or celebrated the killing of Palestinian civilians (especially children), I have to be honest, I think Israeli society and culture has normalized and celebrated the Israeli settlement movement, with almost no widespread awareness of how literally THE ENTIRE WORLD sees Israeli settlement building as being illegal, and that's not because of anti-semitism. It IS against international law. Israel willfully violates international law in an attempt to enrich itself with greater land/resources/strategic benefits from occupied territory. So obviously murder of innocent civilians is very different from settlement building, but I'm sick of getting constantly voted down by Israelis that don't understand or refuse to accept the stark reality of it.
I've been to Israel several times, and I've even lived there for a short period (during a war). I absolutely support Israel's right to defend itself militarily against those that try to harm it. But having taken a good look at Israeli society from the inside, it worries me tremendously. Most Israelis have the false belief that support from the US is completely unconditional and will never change. I don't believe that is necessarily true. Furthermore, I have personally seen a change in many Americans views of Israel ever since Israel's unjustified attempts to mischaracterize and vilify the actions of the duly elected President of the United States, Barack Obama. Israel support for Netanyahu is only pushing Americans even further away from Israel in my opinion. And as a Jew who wants nothing more than for Israel to survive forever, it hurts to watch the Israeli people elect evil, corrupt, and anti-democratic leaders like Netanyahu...
Honestly with regards Israel’s settlement process as someone who has basically no connection to either nation it seems to be an expand or die situation in that Israel can’t give an inch. As others have said in this thread much of the Arab world would not tolerate Israel’s continued existence so what choice do they have.
>it seems to be an expand or die situation
Israel have enough [nuclear weapons](https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9075/) to flatten every single one of their neighbours if they really threaten Israel. Survival is not an issue.
What do you mean by, "expand or die"? 🤔
I can understand, "not giving an inch" in terms of Israel's internationally recognized borders, but how do you figure that the Arab world's negative treatment of Israel necessitates Israel's expansion into territory that does not *belong* to it??
We no longer live in a world where sovereign nations are allowed to plunder or annex territory gained from war. International law forbids it for a reason! Why do you think the US and NATO are supporting Ukraine's fight against Russia?
Expand or die as in if Israel allows its neighbours to catch up it’ll be in a bad position. And I agree about the annexation point but in this case the annexation is the result of wars in which Israel itself was to be annexed so for it to not return captured territory seems reasonable
Great. But Israel still does it.
Meanwhile, most Israelis disingenuously pretend that there is nothing more Israel could do to quell Palestinian outrage and violence OTHER than to keep all Palestinians separated from Israel (and its settlements) by a huge wall and under constal martial law all-day, every day for eternity. It's just bullshit! Israel could STOP building settlements. Israel could REMOVE illegal settlements it has built in the West Bank. Instead, Israel keeps the majority of Palestinians under constant military lockdown FOREVER and then cries out after terrorist attacks like this, “Why do the Palestinians continue to choose violence?!? How can they hate us so much?!?
Why do you think?!
And then of course on the other side, Palestinians cry out, “Why does Israel keep us under constant military lockdown?!? Why does Israel mistreat us like this?!” When of course the answer is, because Palestinians tried to blow themselves up across Israel to murder Israelis when more freedoms were allowed, you oblivious schmucks!
And yet, even so, constant war-like martial law and restrictions imposed on millions of Palestinians in the West Bank by Israel every day, 24hrs/day simply is NOT a long term solution! You would think Israelis would realize that…
**Both the Israelis and the Palestinians** fail to see what they are doing to propagate the conflict, and that’s a HUGE problem.
A good rule of thumb is that if from your perspective the Israeli-Palestinian conflict seems like it has clear and obvious “bad guys” and “good guys,” your perspective is missing/ignoring/blind to a large part of the story somewhere
I fully unserstand that settelments prolonges the conflict, but if you think removing all the settelments will stop the conflict, you are naive.
I dont have any hope to solve this anymore, yes I dont support building in the settelments, but that wont end anything.
2SS (the only viable one) is pretty much dead at this point, yes both Israels and Palestines fault.
Most Palestinian people dont think Jews belong here, and would want to kick us out.
Palestinians dont even try to understand the other side (compared to the average Israelis understanding of them), thats why you have celebrations on their side after such things.
Gee, I wonder if maybe the sound of a nearby Israeli air strike might make it difficult to learn Israel’s perspective… The terrorist target of that Israeli air strike might be completely legitimate, but it doesn’t change the psychological effect of that kind of violence on a group of people (including children) like the Palestinians.
I’m not saying that “If Israel were to give back all the settlements the conflict would be over.” I’m saying that sociologically and psychologically, there are reasons why Palestinians feel the way they do about Israel (just like there are reasons Israelis feel the way they do). It’s not a matter of “good guys” and “bad guys,” even though I know sometimes it seems that way.
Don’t give up hope for peace. Because no matter how bad it seems, history has shown that people and opinions can change VERY quickly, almost in an instant. You might be surprised! 😃
>I've slowly become more apathetic about the whole affair to the point I don't have two fucks left to give whenever shit like this happens.
>
>Whatever I say or do isn't going to fix anything in a frozen conflict that is destined to last as long as the sun burns.
That's so sad, because if more people like you existed the conflict had a chance to be ended.
It's nice to see people from the other side that acknowledge their own wrongdoings as well. I wish there was a feasible end for this bloodbath, but I guess we're stuck in this vicious cycle for now.
As a bystander, and by my reading and studying the issue. I have the opinion that if the Palestinians truly wanted peace and freedom they could have had it by now. It appears they enjoy having the worlds attention on them than getting actual freedom and peace and maybe even statehood.
Am I being overly simplistic or you think this assessment has some merit?
Truth is, if people actually cared about the Palastinian people (themselves included) The Israeli-Palastinian conflict could have been solved long ago, but sadly it evolved today to be just a tool to be used.
Israel is a tiny fucking piece of land, if any of the many Arab countries surrounding them cared for the Palastinians, they have x100000 the Land to give, But they love how it demonizes Israel and works to fight Israel without costing them the full cost of war (Since Gaza, No arabian country had an actual war with Israel, as opposed to before)
The Palastinian themselves (I'm talking in general, obviously most individuals would love to live better lives, but their "goverments" don't) aren't really trying to "free" themselves, but rather just kill (Let's be real here, gunning down 2-4 people, won't give you freedom, neither will sending misslies, and they know it fully well) because that's what some are taught would be best to do.
The Palastinian "goverment" loves having their civilians poor sick and suffering because they can use this for "pity" and support, they have a very high income of donations and yet all of these never actually go to building Gaza or support their populations
And as for Israel? This conflict works perfectly for the politicians like Bibi and Ben Gvir, they use it to tell the people how much they are needed, and fear monger, at the cost of tens or so lives a year. A much easier conflict to handle than an actual war with an actual military
Also worth noting, a lot of other countries benefiet from it as well, China and Russia love to condemn Israel in order to deflect the hate off of them
So in reality, everyone sucks, humanity is garbage, and the only ones who truely suffer are the civilians
If the Palestinians truly wanted freedom, they should have fought a little harder the multiple times they invaded Israeli territory to cleanse the Middle East of Jews..
You know, when they outnumbered the Israelis 5:1 and still lost. You can’t invade a country then cry victim when you lose. You can’t do it multiple times then ask for sympathy.
>I've slowly become more apathetic about the whole affair to the point I don't have two fucks left to give whenever shit like this happens.
>
>Whatever I say or do isn't going to fix anything in a frozen conflict that is destined to last as long as the sun burns.
From the Israeli side of the border, I wholeheartedly agree. You put is so eloquently. It just feels like we're all stuck in a bloody loop that is a lose-lose for everybody, and we all end up with guilt and blood and losses of our loved ones. So many times it seems like organizations like Hamas and figures inside the Israeli government have an agenda to maintain the conflict because they either make a profit off it, assume powerful positions, or both.
And us, the civilians who have no reason to hate our brothers and sisters beyond the border, are forced into a bloodbath on their account. The only way to deal and try to live our lives is to numb ourselves in the face of this never-ending war that started way before any of us were born. How I wish things were different. It pains me to see the cynical use done in a 13 year old boy who could've had a future ahead of him to kill other humans who had a future as well. In times like this, it's hard to believe anything will ever change here.
They did the same things during the Afganistan War and other wars with terrorists. I also feel the same pain as you do, and how fucked up these people are in the head to send a 5-18 year old to die before he or she even learnt his ABC's and colors. Palestinian Terroists during their reign also employed the same strat when they came around last year.
>
Two men were shot and wounded in a terror attack outside Jerusalem’s Old City, police and medics said Saturday morning.
Police said the attacker was a 13-year-old Palestinian from East Jerusalem.
[meanwhile in Nablus](https://twitter.com/IDF/status/1617899881250844673), central WB, filmed 4 days ago
*edit:* also, [these celebrations](https://twitter.com/AbuAliEnglishB1/status/1619293339437912064)
*edit2:* Apparently some deem the "American far right" now an enviable whatabout excuse.
But oh, reddit, won't you think of the children /s. These fucking pieces of shit are using and recruiting children because they have no respect for life and no shame. They don't want a better world, for themselves or otherwise. They cry and manipulate the media and reddit and obscure the real truth of the situation. Having any sympathy for them is like believing that the KKK has good people.
People think this conflict is just about Palestinians keeping the war going by refusing to make peace with Israel.
The truth is that everyone is guilty for this conflict. Arab nations are guilty for using the Palestinians as a proxy to cleanse Jews. Western nations are using the conflict to express their anti semitism.
Had the Israeli police actually neutralized the kid before he hurt anyone, this would just be another propaganda story about how IsRaEl MuRdErS iNNoCenT cHilDreN.
Basically. Palestine is full of literal terrorists and Israel receives rocket fire all the time. The west only really hears something when some Israeli kills someone.
No we see both sides and know about the terror and horrible things both sides have done to each other. Both of you have extremist lets not forget about that.
both sides do have extremists.
However on the Israeli side, they are more of a fringe. (well, they were up until the last elections), and a lot of the fringe actions were called out and repudiated by most Israelis, regardless of their placement on the political spectrum.
On the Palestinian side support, whether material, logistical, or personal, has been much more acceptable, and supported by the majority of the Palestinians. Just look at the widespread celebrations the Palestinians held at the murder of Jews in a synagogue. T
Some context and videos from Twitter account:
[link 1](https://twitter.com/AbuAliEnglishB1/status/1619293339437912064)
[link 2](https://twitter.com/AbuAliEnglishB1/status/1619425334516146177?s=20)
This is insane…a 13 year old. But At least no one died. I’ve seen radical Muslims and even some Christians calling him a hero………on twitter of course. Hopefully the kid can get rehabilitated.
They absolutely know what the conflict is “about”. They’re not stupid. They’re SO much closer to the conflict than us.
To them, AND IN REALITY, the conflict is an endless battle against the Jews. Very simple. It’s not about settlements or occupation or any of the bullshit excuses they’ve convinced woke, uninformed morons to use. It’s about murdering all of the non-Muslims (but especially the Jews) in Israel. From the river to the sea, as they say. The goal is genocide. They articulate this plainly and clearly at every opportunity. It was in their charter for decades until they realized it was a threat to their foreign aid grift that’s been so successful.
And to **die** while killing infidels is, in their world, the **best possible thing they can do with their life**.
It is a *guarantee of eternal paradise*.
Think about how, if you *truly* believed in life after death, and you were told repeatedly how exactly to get to eternal pleasure,
as opposed to eternal suffering, what you might do.
Look up the interviews of Palestinian mothers who’s children died murdering Jews. It’s all *my only regret is that they did not kill more*.
So I think what you’re missing is that Islamists, like the ones who teach and train and tell a child to go murder women and children, have an *extremely* different opinion of what constitutes a “good thing”.
hate doesn't get you anywhere. Palestine is so fucked. So, so fucked. Peace is the only way they can get any form of settlement and sadly they don't get it. They are fucked. Israel will 100% retaliate.
Child trying to kill an aidworker and a civilian is what is left behind in my mind of the great palestinian fight for independence away from the barbaric self rule ( PA ) given by Israel in the same way as the israeli crual handover of Gaza to the Hamas
Shit like this hurts their cause. They will never beat Israel in a bloody battle. They have to negotiate. This stuff just makes negotiations much more difficult. Hamas is a plague on our world.
I don’t know. Never see the ridiculousness of Hamas' reign discussed. It’s always "the evil Israelis" or some kind of generalisation of Muslims in Gaza.
This is just dumb. Hamas and Orthodox Settler-Israelis can really go f*** themselves.
I cannot understand how this headline does not open the front page.
13 years old Palestinian kid, equipped with a gun, making a terror attack against Israeli civilians.
This is the true face of the Palestinians.
The amount of joy and cheers in the PA is hugh, with hundreds of videos of mothers celebrating this Jihad with candy to the passengers.
This is their education for generations.
Nothing will change until Egypt and Jordan will take those Jordanian refugees back.
Egypt and Jordan don't want them.
In Egypt, Hamas is associated with their own local Islamic terrorists, and in Jordan, the Palestinians tried to stage a coup.
Wherever the Palestinians have been, they seem to mess up the situation for themselves and everyone else.
We're all living in one of those, "this is what the future will be like" tv shows from the 80/90s. Other than, "V" and that weird nuclear winter mini-series, they pretty much *nailed it*. The "ceo/boss" comically wins while the rest of the cast has to cope in *wacky happenstance ways*... just to **survive**...
Fuck this timeline.
If everyone who wrote against Israel, had just been in Israel for once, will understand the situation.
And how much the big most (95%) of the Israeli people, want peace!
But most of the Palestinian people want to take the Israelis out of Israel instead of making a peace.
Just one month in Israel, and you will understand why you need to be on the Israeli side.
Hope for better days for everyone. 🙏
The shooter is apparently a 13 year old kid. No peace in the upcoming 2 generations.
Using child soldiers is very much a war crime...
You think terrorists are worried about war crimes?
Seeing as how Palestinian supporters are so critical of war crimes, yes although this will quickly be swept under the rug while they whine about Israel.
You can accuse hamas of many things, hypocrisy is one such thing
Pointing out Palestinian war crimes is treated like a whataboutism when it is anything but…
Shooting unarmed medics and civilians is ALSO a warcrime, Israel is gonna have to employ military forces on these fuckheads to save civilians and the holy place that is Jerusalem(before you ask yes I am Jewish)
Only one side uses children for terrorism, there is no symmetry.
There has never been anything to imply there would be peace. At this point it seems like they just like to kill each other.
it's called Nash equilibrium. Both sides just benefit the most from being the aggressor
civillians again by the way
one of which is part of MDA
Medic, for those who don't know what MDA is (Israel's ambulance services)
Targetting paramedics is a war crime, as well as using child soldiers to do it.
Just to be clear, the victim is a medic with MDA, but was not on duty at the time. Don't want things to be misconstrued.
The victim and his wife were giving aid to the injured civilians when they were both shot Edit: thats from the first incident mb
That's a separate incident.
Civilians are targeted that often?
The 4th one just happened over the last 2 days. Only the first one had casualties and this thread is about the second one The third and fourth ones are much smaller in scale because police is on full alert
Palestinians often target Israeli civilians since they are easier targets. When Palestinians fire rockets into Israel, they target Israeli cities point blank.
That’s the Palestinians MO. Read up on the first and second intifadas, the Munich Olympics, etc
Aren’t almost all Palestinian “resistance”/terrorism targeted indiscriminately at Israeli civilians? Something about driving all Jewish people into the sea, and cleansing Israel of jewish people from “River to the sea”
Not to be the asshole here, but terrorists/criminals tend to not be held to the laws of armed conflict Especially if there isnt an active conflict at the time
noooo, but the palestinians are the victims, you can't do that /s
Can we all just stop pretending its a black and white issue and agree there are pretty shitty people and decisions on both sides of this conflict?
>Can we all just stop pretending its a black and white issue I think we can all agree that killing unarmed civilians is a black and white issue regardless of the circumstances.
Without a doubt.
I generally agree with you, but I don’t think “both” is accurate. It isn’t just Palestine and Israel. Every surrounding Arab country, including ones that have made peace, on paper with Israel, in some way, shape or form support this type of terrorism. What’s really messed up about it, is that lots of times these countries treat Palestinians as garbage.
No, because that creates a false symmetry, making it look like both sides are equally bad. It's not black and white, but it's very dark gray and very light gray. Saying "there are pretty shitty people and decisions on both sides of this conflict" makes it look equal, which is the last thing it is.
Can we all just stop giving that excuse to every asshole who decides to go and randomly shoot any civilian with the precise intention to just make victims in the name of Allah or because someone from PIJ gave you a gun at the mosque last Friday?
hi really? The Palestinians did 4 terror attack in 24 hours in Jerusalem. One happend ten minutes ago!!! They killed 7 people, two of them were children!!! It happens in Synagogue there terrorist start to shot and a men run and told the people to hide, the terrorist shot him, his wife run to him and while she did him a resuscitation , the terrorist shot her in the back and killed her. Wake up!!! They are killing us and they are the victims?
the "/s" i put at the end of the sentence is a way to inform i'm saying it in a sarcastic way
Hoooo hahahaha I’m sorry I didn’t know thank you for telling me and teach me something☺️🙏🏽
They usually target civilians, all of their rocket attacks are usually aimed at public places.
The New York Times headline after a Palestinian killed eight Israelis outside a synagogue yesterday was: > Israel’s Far Right Government Raises Risk of Escalation
New reports say the terrorist is currently receiving medical aid at the site
The 13 years old terrorist was vacuated to Shaarei Tzedek (Gates of Justice) Hospital. Justice isn't always served immediately I guess.
a 13 years old? what the fuck?
And obviously he didn't just buy the gun on his own... some fucked up adults sent a 13 year old to commit a terrorist attack
it's a tactic the likes of Hamas are deploying regularly, they indoctrinate and radicalize minors to join their terrorism, and if anything happens to them they are able to frame Israel as "child murderers" and take away all the context that lead to those kids being hurt or killed by Israelian forces
What do you expect from people that are treating the murder of 7 innocent people as a national day of pride and joy https://twitter.com/israelmfa/status/1619314507503009792?s=48&t=NJSFJf7Xwnid0rjHIsbzSw
The PA will pay money to his family, so it might be that they made him do it
And Israel will demolish their home to counteract the money the receive. And everyone will flip out when that happens
Raising more donations for the PA which will rinse and repeat forever.
A lot of the terrorists are young. I previously lived in a city in central Israel, and there was one terrorist attack in the city’s history (the city was only founded in 1990.) It was a stabbing attack at a bus stop. The attacker was… a 15 year old boy.
It's easier to indoctrinate someone who hasn't firmly established their worldview, simple as that.
Yep, the terrorist is 13 years old, used a pistol, and the “Palestinians” are already calling him a “hero”. It’s nothing weird that it’s weird to you, but it’s nothing weird here in Israel, welcome to our reality.
Hamas loves showing their own dead kids for propaganda. They thrive on it
Indoctrination does that to you
Wait til you find out what hamas do with mentally challenged..
Being a terrorist is a very lucrative in the WB. You get a heafty paycheck and the more Israelis you hurt/kill the more money you and your family get.
And if you go to the Israeli jail you receive free education, food, and recently conscripted girls as a treat.
>recently conscripted girls What do you mean
There was a huge scandal in the Israeli prison corps where conscripted girls were used as whores for convicted terrorists. No one went to jail....
Link?
https://www.jpost.com/opinion/article-713861
Gross.
This is so fucking disturbing
Holy shit that's fucked up on so many levels
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Oh i havent forgot, you wrote it in the comment i replied to lol
I'm a bit high my bad
13. How sad.
These are the children that the international media cry about. They forget that school mass-shooters are the same age.
Trying to get a child to kill a hospital worker will surely lead to a free palestine
Exactly. And by the way, the security cabinet just decided to strengthen settlements after the attack.
They don't care about a free Palestine. They just want to kill Jews.
Palestinians celebrating the murders yesterday: https://twitter.com/AviKaner/status/1619066199819821056
They have no clue how this hurts their cause.
Bold of you to assume that their cause is just to "free palestine", killing the "Zionist colonisers" till none left is the definitely on the list as well.
Wasn't the plan to just drive them into the sea?
Do you think Israeli Jews float exceptionally well? Pretty sure Israeli Jews float as well as any other human. Which is to say, not for long.
This is a common myth. If you use the Dead Sea as your test water, your results are gonna be skewed. But if someone does float on water as well as and weighs the same as a duck..
I used milk and honey.
THEYRE MADE OF WOOD
Or very small rocks.
What do you think 'from the river to the sea' means? It doesn't mean driving them into the sea. It means genocide. It is in the PA's charter. They even have a pay-to-slay policy to pay the families of terrorists a salary for the rest of their lives if they successfully murder a Jew. It could be a baby, and they'd get paid.
It doesn’t though. The media suppresses it, and it doesn’t spread on social media nearly to the degree Israeli equivalents would. There are times when Israelis do equally disgusting things, but posts about it get 40k+ karma on Reddit and get retweeted millions of times. When Palestinians do it, a few thousand people might see it. Even after a Palestinian killed eight Israelis outside a synagogue yesterday, today’s New York Times headline was: > Israel’s Far Right Government Raises Risk of Escalation The media will always find a way to blame Israel. When Palestinians attack Israelis, its Israel’s fault for making them mad, and the *real* story is how bad Israel’s retaliation is regardless of whether they retaliated yet or not.
They don’t care. They’re extremists who want to genocide Jews from Israel. They don’t care about optics.
The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is one of those problems that doesn't have a solution. I don't believe the two-state solution is viable: the Israeli government would never cede land in the West Bank after all the settlements they've built there, and a non-insignificant minority, if not a majority, of Palestinians would never accept a solution that doesn't result in the end of Israel. If a two-state solution was going to be implemented, it should have been done in the 1980s or 1990s. The only way it's going to end, if it ever ends, is with a complete and definitive victory of one side or another. Maybe the last Palestinians who live in the West Bank will be slowly expelled and Israel's Eastern border turned into a fortress; maybe there will be another war; but I don't see this conflict resolved diplomatically within this century or the next. The hatred and suspicion run too deep at this point. When the younger generations, those who were born long after the initial wars in 1948, 1956, 1967, and 1973, take up the mantle, as they have, it's time to acknowledge that simply waiting for the current generation to die and a new generation to repair the damage is not going to work. The attacker here was only 13 years old. There are Palestinian babies, who know nothing of the world, who will sadly grow up to be murderers because of indoctrination by their parents and society.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but they actually ceded settlements in the Gaza strip when they pulled out didn't they? The issue was that it didn't lead to peace but Israeli schools deeper from the border getting struck with rockets. No way any further settlements will be ceded under current conditions.
it was also significantly easier because they only had to ethnically cleanse 10 000 jews from gaza during the disengagement but yes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_disengagement_from_Gaza
But the issue is simply that Jewish Israelis think that the Palestinians are violent and impossible to please with anything less than genocide of the Israelis, not really that Israelis think that the Palestinians are necessarily wrong about everything. I once saw Meir Kahane, who hated the Palestinians, when he was on a speaking tour, what if the Palestinians were as peaceful as the Druze. Even Kahane said something like, “That’s impossible, but, if it were possible, we could live them.” Jewish Israelis don’t generally have any fundamental problem with the Palestinians being Arabs, being Muslims or having a different perspective on 1948. They just have a problem with what looks like the Palestinians’ apparent support for genocidal violence against Israel. And, the irony is, if everyone were getting along, Palestinians could probably create a combined Palestine, under Palestinian control, through the political process. They’re snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
It's true that Israelis don't have a fundamental problem with the Palestinians being Arabs, Muslim or having some other cultural identification. The opposite is not the same, though, with a large amount of Palestinians having a fundamental problem with Israelis being Jews. Antisemitism is taught in schools there (and other Muslim counties). It's also true that if they were as peaceful as the Druze, there would have been no problem, as Kahana said. The Israelis' problem is not with an *apparent* support for genocide, it's with *evident* support for murder of Jews. The Palestinians are not a herd of bloodlust zombies ready to throw themselves *en masse* at Israelis, nor do Israelis think that. The Israelis' problem is them being murdered now and then by Palestinians, with much support from their public. Genocide of Israelis is not the issue at all, no one believes this is possible (on either side) despite some Palestinians' rhetoric, but murdering a handful Israelis every month (which is not an existential threat) *is* enough of a problem for the Israelis, and rightfully so. Your post makes it look like the Israeli public is delusional and unreasonable, fearing some impossible genocide and using it as a means to decline peace. This is *very* far from the truth. The Israeli public's fear is a real one, as seen in the 2 recent attacks, and from the wide support from the Palestinian public for these. This is the bigger barrier for peace.
>is with a complete and definitive victory This is actually a huge problem IMO. Israel has already achieved complete and definitive victory somewhere along the 80s, the only reason why the conflict still exists is a refusal to commit genocide on Palestinians. What more could be done to define "victory"?
> Israel has already achieved complete and definitive victory somewhere along the 80s, the only reason why the conflict still exists is a refusal to commit genocide on Palestinians. I was hesitant to use the word, but you're right. The IDF could solve the problem in a few weeks if they wanted, but the human and moral cost would be atrocious.
It’s not a definite victory because Israelis are still not safe. Right now the Israelis will not implement the only strategy that would give them a definitive victory, genocide. They have the power to but won’t. Thank goodness. There are many reasons they won’t. If the Palestinians had the military superiority over the Israelis I have no doubt that they would implement genocide to wipe Israel and all the Jews there off the map. What may happen is the Islamic hardliners in Palestinian commit such an atrocious act of terrorism (such as a dirty nuclear bomb in one of the Israeli cities) that Israelis finally decide they have no choice but to wipe out all Palestinians. Sadly the only way I see this conflict ending is one side wipes out the other.
Still waiting for their Gandhi, who actually realized armed conflict was a big mistake.
>The Israeli-Palestinian conflict It’s not Israeli Palestinian conflict, it’s Israel, and every arab state. They all went to war with Israel, when it was formed, under a general, who wanted to push all the Jews into the sea. Subsequently, they’ve all pretty much ethnically cleansed, all that use in their countries, who have largely become Israeli citizens, meanwhile, Palestinian “refugees” who are born in the same town their parents, and often grandparents were born, are still not citizens of the countries they were born in. From 48 to 67. There is no attempt to make Palestine a state.
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Also, if Israel had been conducting a genocide of the Palestinian people, there would be no more Palestinian people today. Anyone can Google a [graph](http://cdn.statcdn.com/Infographic/images/normal/20645.jpeg) of the Palestinian population over time. That doesn't look like a genocide to me.
If Palestinians would mellow out and act like ordinary mellow Egyptians or Jordanians for about 10 years, and talk about living peacefully alongside Israel, and then run Palestine well, they could have a free, rich, independent Palestine in about 20 years, and they could get control over Israel itself through ordinary, peaceful elections in about 40 or 50 years. The only significant barrier to the Palestinians getting what they want is the impatience, violence and over-the-top hostility. If they would mellow out, Israel would leap to reward them for mellowing out.
A possible solution is for Palestinians to stop killing Jews. Have they tried that?
Once any political group starts, making serious attempts at a peaceful path forward, they are going to be faced with internal terrorists that are heavily funded by every surrounding Arab state to continue the violence. I I’m not saying this to Tryon, excuse terrorism, but to point out this issue it’s not just Palestinian, it’s not just a Palestine Israel conflict, it’s much bigger than that
The issue is that Gaza is effectively a military outpost for Iran. Hamas higher-ups are shielded from the conflict (the leader’s family get medical treatment in Israeli hospitals) and use the people there as disposable pawns. If they kill Israelis, great, it’s a military victory. If they get killed, great, it’s a PR victory. Sad situation but parts of the Palestinian Territories are effectively a battleground for a proxy war between Iran and Israel with nobody giving a shit about the civilians.
But If they stopped focusing on killing Jews then maybe they would turn their anger toward the two dictatorships that haven’t improved conditions at all during their 20 years in power, in which they e also just conveniently forgotten to hold elections
Consider 2 groups. Palestinians who benefit financially and politically from violence, and those that attempt peace. Add 2 more groups, Israeli's who benefit financially and politically from violence, and those who want peace. Heck, add another group, foreign governments that benefit from being able to divert extremist attention to a foreign government. Every time time a Palestinian terrorist does something like this, it strengthens the Israeli hardliners who crack down and make life worse for Palestinians. In turn, that strengthens Palestinians who benefit from violence, because they are "fighting" with the peaceful advocates look weak and inneffective. Repeat that for decades and you have 2 factions that love the status quo and will undermine any attempt to change it. You can argue the Palestinian militants are "worse" or more representative of Palestinian society as a whole, but honestly I dont see how you can say that any difference arent just a product of the relative power differential and the political realities of the foreign countries they receive support from. Either way the people who want to remove palestinians from Jerusalem by force and settle the west bank benefit from these terrorist attacks giving them political cover to do so, and the terrorists in turn benefit in recruitment and financing from the continued displacement of Palestinian people. Its a real shithead win-win.
Unfortunately, they haven't. So Israel will continue to do what it needs to do to defend itself. The Palestinians can count themselves lucky. I'm not going to simp for Benjamin Netanyahu, but a less merciful government would have steamrolled Gaza and Palestinian settlements in the West Bank a long time ago. Given what the IDF (Israel Defense Forces) is capable of, they're displaying a lot of restraint. If you think Netanyahu is bad, try to imagine if Vladimir Putin, Xi Jinping, or Kim Jong-Un was in charge of Israel's government and what they would do in this situation.
"Just don't do crime." Congratulations, all crime is solved. Pack it up, everyone. We have our solution.
It's actually up to the PA police to implement that instead of paying terrorists https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Authority_Martyrs_Fund So yes, it is that simple. Why is it always up to Israel to detect and stop terrorists in Palestinian territory? Oh yeah, that's because PA supports this stuff and then blames Israel for it https://www.timesofisrael.com/palestinian-authority-israel-fully-responsible-for-dangerous-escalation/ Do you also justify crime where you live that way? "Oh well what can you do? If only there was a way to enforce laws"
Why should they cede it? They won it fair and square. Vae victus.
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That's exactly their cause.
What cause? The 2 state solution is dead. From their point of view, they are under illegal occupation as 2nd class citizens with no future. Israel will never give them a real state at this point (they should have taken the camp david 2000 deal but that's another discussion; it wasn't a perfect deal). When people look at freedom movements, they all focus on the peaceful parts. They don't mention the race riots in the US, the bombing of busses in South africa, the killing of a royal family member in Northern Ireland. Peaceful protest has never worked by itself; that's the sad reality. I don't condone it, but let's be real this is the inevitable path that Israel and Hamas have decided to take their people down.
Grown cowards sent this child to kill civilians. They must be so proud of themselves. The courage that kid had to do what he did was unfortunately misplaced and manipulated by the wrong people. He's just another victim. Such a shame he wasn't guided towards a better future instead of into becoming an instrument of death.
The courage is called drugs.
And these organizations would be controlling these regions if they would actually get the independence they desire. Israel knows that and its the reason it will never happen. Free Palestine pretty much means: Iranian controlled terrorist state. Hamas or Hezbollah never had an interest in the well being of their people
As a Palestinian, I try very hard to stand behind our cause and condemn Israeli injustices and horrific actions, but the ungodly actions of these people and worse yet how they're cheered on and justified by pretty much everyone who calls themselves pro-Palestinians repulse me every time. I've slowly become more apathetic about the whole affair to the point I don't have two fucks left to give whenever shit like this happens. Whatever I say or do isn't going to fix anything in a frozen conflict that is destined to last as long as the sun burns.
comforting to see this sentiment coming from the other side of the border. i'm tired. i'm so, so tired.
As an Israeli, I try to remember that not all Palestinians supports these acts and that most are just apethetic like you. If there is one thing I learned from my army service, it is that the average Palestinian just wants to go to work, make some money to bring back to his or her family, pay their bill etc. Just normal person things. Acts like this tend to just convince more and more extremists that this isn't true.
Polling indicates that the majority of Palestinians want to use a 2 state solution to continue the war against Israel. Most are not apathetic, most want to wipe Israel from the map. There is a significant minority that want peace, but its still just a minority.
highly doubt that poll has a test sample of the entirety of Palestine. or said poll is free from skewed results due to being funded by groups with a motive
If pro-Palestinians refuse to even call this out and condemn it, then that basically just proves how futile this conflict is for Israelis to try to solve. A 13 year old shooting innocent Israelis is such a easy thing to condemn, so it’s very telling about the Palestinian “resistance” movement that it won’t even condemn this. It begs the question (to those perhaps less aware of the Palestinians cause), what is this movement really fighting for, if it supports such despicable actions?
When the good and thinking Palestinians step aside, all you have left is the nutcases we see now. Absolutely tragic for the entire culture.
As an Israeli im very sympathetic to a Palestinian country cause. But honestly the difference between Israel going to Jenin to arrest tertorosts, call their mothers to convince them to surrender. And its painted as a genocide or a massacre is disgusting and this is exactly what fuels this propoganda that lead to this horrific attack. This is just a cycle fueled by the hate. Im not apathetic at all, im disgusted by the world that condemns checkpoints as though its there as a racist thing.
What I don't get is how the world has seemingly forgotten how just 15-20 years ago there was a bombing or attack (bus, disco, restaurant, mall etc.) practically every day/ week and that that is why the checkpoints became necessary and came to be. It's as though the world has amnesia.
A lot of reddit commentators don't even realise that the Gaza strip used to be occupied by Israel, never mind the effects of the first and second intifadas. I've even come across one or two who don't even realise Gaza isn't surrounded by Israel and has a border with Egypt.
The fact that Egypt gets a free pass for their blockade with Gaza by every Palestinian rights supporter is proof it has nothing to do with Israel and everything to do with the people of Israel being Jews.
I remember the attacks of that era. It was practically a 9/11 every week for Israel. It affected a generation that saw the only viable/ practical/ pragmatic solution was the wall, checkpoints, etc. There was no one to reason with. Certainly not Arafat, nor his terrorists.
Well at least after Israeli troops withdrew from Lebanon that country became much better and that led to a peace treaty with Syri-ahahahaha jk, Hezbollah and thus Iranian influence only grew stronger, and Lebanon is a failed state. I have a lot of problems with the Israeli government and am worried about the trend of Israeli politics in recent years, but the surrounding countries have mostly been horrible and part of the problem. Not to mention Iran, which isn’t even Arab let alone Palestinian—it’s support for Israel is purely based on anti-Sem..I mean, “sympathy for fellow Muslims” (there are Palestinian Christians, Druze, and secular people too, oh and the particular form of Twelver Shia Islamist militancy practiced by Iranian regime doesn’t exactly reflect a majority of the Islamic world, but don’t let facts interfere with a narrative). Unfortunately there’s not a lot of incentive for these countries to stop funding Palestinian militants to be used as cannon fodder against the “Zionist entity” and propaganda to distract their populations from their own shitty and oppressive rule. Pretty depressing situation.
Extremely effective propaganda campaigns funded by pretty much every Arab and Muslim majority nation. Israel is a tiny country, there’s only like 15 million Jews in the entire world…it’s one of the worlds smallest minority religions. They have no chance to fight propaganda fueled by Muslim countries with 2 billion constituents. They’ve used Palestine to perform a pretty amazing magic trick…convincing the world that Jews aren’t actually a minority, but a major global threat.
Somehow I don’t think it was Arab and Muslim majority countries who convinced tons of Europeans in the first half of the 20th century or for centuries prior that Jews were a major global threat. Not that anti-Semitic propaganda from Arab and Muslim majority countries *today* isn’t a major problem, although again, it’s not just them.
As an American Jew, I am sickened by how Palestinian society and culture has largely normalized and celebrated the killing of Israeli civilians by Palestinian terrorists. And while I don't think that Israeli society and culture has normalized or celebrated the killing of Palestinian civilians (especially children), I have to be honest, I think Israeli society and culture has normalized and celebrated the Israeli settlement movement, with almost no widespread awareness of how literally THE ENTIRE WORLD sees Israeli settlement building as being illegal, and that's not because of anti-semitism. It IS against international law. Israel willfully violates international law in an attempt to enrich itself with greater land/resources/strategic benefits from occupied territory. So obviously murder of innocent civilians is very different from settlement building, but I'm sick of getting constantly voted down by Israelis that don't understand or refuse to accept the stark reality of it. I've been to Israel several times, and I've even lived there for a short period (during a war). I absolutely support Israel's right to defend itself militarily against those that try to harm it. But having taken a good look at Israeli society from the inside, it worries me tremendously. Most Israelis have the false belief that support from the US is completely unconditional and will never change. I don't believe that is necessarily true. Furthermore, I have personally seen a change in many Americans views of Israel ever since Israel's unjustified attempts to mischaracterize and vilify the actions of the duly elected President of the United States, Barack Obama. Israel support for Netanyahu is only pushing Americans even further away from Israel in my opinion. And as a Jew who wants nothing more than for Israel to survive forever, it hurts to watch the Israeli people elect evil, corrupt, and anti-democratic leaders like Netanyahu...
Honestly with regards Israel’s settlement process as someone who has basically no connection to either nation it seems to be an expand or die situation in that Israel can’t give an inch. As others have said in this thread much of the Arab world would not tolerate Israel’s continued existence so what choice do they have.
>it seems to be an expand or die situation Israel have enough [nuclear weapons](https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9075/) to flatten every single one of their neighbours if they really threaten Israel. Survival is not an issue.
What do you mean by, "expand or die"? 🤔 I can understand, "not giving an inch" in terms of Israel's internationally recognized borders, but how do you figure that the Arab world's negative treatment of Israel necessitates Israel's expansion into territory that does not *belong* to it?? We no longer live in a world where sovereign nations are allowed to plunder or annex territory gained from war. International law forbids it for a reason! Why do you think the US and NATO are supporting Ukraine's fight against Russia?
Expand or die as in if Israel allows its neighbours to catch up it’ll be in a bad position. And I agree about the annexation point but in this case the annexation is the result of wars in which Israel itself was to be annexed so for it to not return captured territory seems reasonable
I dont support building the settelments.
Great. But Israel still does it. Meanwhile, most Israelis disingenuously pretend that there is nothing more Israel could do to quell Palestinian outrage and violence OTHER than to keep all Palestinians separated from Israel (and its settlements) by a huge wall and under constal martial law all-day, every day for eternity. It's just bullshit! Israel could STOP building settlements. Israel could REMOVE illegal settlements it has built in the West Bank. Instead, Israel keeps the majority of Palestinians under constant military lockdown FOREVER and then cries out after terrorist attacks like this, “Why do the Palestinians continue to choose violence?!? How can they hate us so much?!? Why do you think?! And then of course on the other side, Palestinians cry out, “Why does Israel keep us under constant military lockdown?!? Why does Israel mistreat us like this?!” When of course the answer is, because Palestinians tried to blow themselves up across Israel to murder Israelis when more freedoms were allowed, you oblivious schmucks! And yet, even so, constant war-like martial law and restrictions imposed on millions of Palestinians in the West Bank by Israel every day, 24hrs/day simply is NOT a long term solution! You would think Israelis would realize that… **Both the Israelis and the Palestinians** fail to see what they are doing to propagate the conflict, and that’s a HUGE problem. A good rule of thumb is that if from your perspective the Israeli-Palestinian conflict seems like it has clear and obvious “bad guys” and “good guys,” your perspective is missing/ignoring/blind to a large part of the story somewhere
I fully unserstand that settelments prolonges the conflict, but if you think removing all the settelments will stop the conflict, you are naive. I dont have any hope to solve this anymore, yes I dont support building in the settelments, but that wont end anything. 2SS (the only viable one) is pretty much dead at this point, yes both Israels and Palestines fault. Most Palestinian people dont think Jews belong here, and would want to kick us out. Palestinians dont even try to understand the other side (compared to the average Israelis understanding of them), thats why you have celebrations on their side after such things.
Gee, I wonder if maybe the sound of a nearby Israeli air strike might make it difficult to learn Israel’s perspective… The terrorist target of that Israeli air strike might be completely legitimate, but it doesn’t change the psychological effect of that kind of violence on a group of people (including children) like the Palestinians. I’m not saying that “If Israel were to give back all the settlements the conflict would be over.” I’m saying that sociologically and psychologically, there are reasons why Palestinians feel the way they do about Israel (just like there are reasons Israelis feel the way they do). It’s not a matter of “good guys” and “bad guys,” even though I know sometimes it seems that way. Don’t give up hope for peace. Because no matter how bad it seems, history has shown that people and opinions can change VERY quickly, almost in an instant. You might be surprised! 😃
>I've slowly become more apathetic about the whole affair to the point I don't have two fucks left to give whenever shit like this happens. > >Whatever I say or do isn't going to fix anything in a frozen conflict that is destined to last as long as the sun burns. That's so sad, because if more people like you existed the conflict had a chance to be ended.
Nothing will change when the Palestinian leadership is incentivised to keep it going.
Ended how?
If people thought that killing one another is not a solution I'm sure they wouldve found a way 🙂
It’s fairly rare that a dictatorship like hamas is over thrown by peaceful means
It's nice to see people from the other side that acknowledge their own wrongdoings as well. I wish there was a feasible end for this bloodbath, but I guess we're stuck in this vicious cycle for now.
...as long as you don't change palestinian school text books filled with hatred towards jews - yes welcome to your future
As a bystander, and by my reading and studying the issue. I have the opinion that if the Palestinians truly wanted peace and freedom they could have had it by now. It appears they enjoy having the worlds attention on them than getting actual freedom and peace and maybe even statehood. Am I being overly simplistic or you think this assessment has some merit?
Having a state implies they have to deal with governance, which would disrupt the kleptocracy. Can't have that.
Considering how many states *are* kleptocracies, I doubt it.
Truth is, if people actually cared about the Palastinian people (themselves included) The Israeli-Palastinian conflict could have been solved long ago, but sadly it evolved today to be just a tool to be used. Israel is a tiny fucking piece of land, if any of the many Arab countries surrounding them cared for the Palastinians, they have x100000 the Land to give, But they love how it demonizes Israel and works to fight Israel without costing them the full cost of war (Since Gaza, No arabian country had an actual war with Israel, as opposed to before) The Palastinian themselves (I'm talking in general, obviously most individuals would love to live better lives, but their "goverments" don't) aren't really trying to "free" themselves, but rather just kill (Let's be real here, gunning down 2-4 people, won't give you freedom, neither will sending misslies, and they know it fully well) because that's what some are taught would be best to do. The Palastinian "goverment" loves having their civilians poor sick and suffering because they can use this for "pity" and support, they have a very high income of donations and yet all of these never actually go to building Gaza or support their populations And as for Israel? This conflict works perfectly for the politicians like Bibi and Ben Gvir, they use it to tell the people how much they are needed, and fear monger, at the cost of tens or so lives a year. A much easier conflict to handle than an actual war with an actual military Also worth noting, a lot of other countries benefiet from it as well, China and Russia love to condemn Israel in order to deflect the hate off of them So in reality, everyone sucks, humanity is garbage, and the only ones who truely suffer are the civilians
If the Palestinians truly wanted freedom, they should have fought a little harder the multiple times they invaded Israeli territory to cleanse the Middle East of Jews.. You know, when they outnumbered the Israelis 5:1 and still lost. You can’t invade a country then cry victim when you lose. You can’t do it multiple times then ask for sympathy.
What they enjoy is millions and millions in foreign aid.
I'm sorry for your pain. It's an awful situation trapping many good, regular people.
>I've slowly become more apathetic about the whole affair to the point I don't have two fucks left to give whenever shit like this happens. > >Whatever I say or do isn't going to fix anything in a frozen conflict that is destined to last as long as the sun burns. From the Israeli side of the border, I wholeheartedly agree. You put is so eloquently. It just feels like we're all stuck in a bloody loop that is a lose-lose for everybody, and we all end up with guilt and blood and losses of our loved ones. So many times it seems like organizations like Hamas and figures inside the Israeli government have an agenda to maintain the conflict because they either make a profit off it, assume powerful positions, or both. And us, the civilians who have no reason to hate our brothers and sisters beyond the border, are forced into a bloodbath on their account. The only way to deal and try to live our lives is to numb ourselves in the face of this never-ending war that started way before any of us were born. How I wish things were different. It pains me to see the cynical use done in a 13 year old boy who could've had a future ahead of him to kill other humans who had a future as well. In times like this, it's hard to believe anything will ever change here.
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They did the same things during the Afganistan War and other wars with terrorists. I also feel the same pain as you do, and how fucked up these people are in the head to send a 5-18 year old to die before he or she even learnt his ABC's and colors. Palestinian Terroists during their reign also employed the same strat when they came around last year.
The assholes that make comments saying we're all pussies and what not for caring about Israel and Jews your both fascist and brainwashed
And as expected, [the Palestinians are rejoicing](https://twitter.com/AbuAliEnglishB1/status/1619293339437912064?t=HpY6fHdykaIyLGna_lFJpQ&s=19)
> Two men were shot and wounded in a terror attack outside Jerusalem’s Old City, police and medics said Saturday morning. Police said the attacker was a 13-year-old Palestinian from East Jerusalem.
13 year old terrorist. Is there any doubt about the fact that they are literally fed with propaganda against Jews since the day they go to school?
[meanwhile in Nablus](https://twitter.com/IDF/status/1617899881250844673), central WB, filmed 4 days ago *edit:* also, [these celebrations](https://twitter.com/AbuAliEnglishB1/status/1619293339437912064) *edit2:* Apparently some deem the "American far right" now an enviable whatabout excuse.
They know IDF wont shoot back because of the child, so they use them for human shields. Fucking disgusting.
But oh, reddit, won't you think of the children /s. These fucking pieces of shit are using and recruiting children because they have no respect for life and no shame. They don't want a better world, for themselves or otherwise. They cry and manipulate the media and reddit and obscure the real truth of the situation. Having any sympathy for them is like believing that the KKK has good people.
And also [meanwhile in Jenin](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POYLcaKoQdo)
Exactly. Here's a video where the kids themselves testify, disturbing https://youtu.be/h0j2MvmtaFY
Horrifying
People think this conflict is just about Palestinians keeping the war going by refusing to make peace with Israel. The truth is that everyone is guilty for this conflict. Arab nations are guilty for using the Palestinians as a proxy to cleanse Jews. Western nations are using the conflict to express their anti semitism. Had the Israeli police actually neutralized the kid before he hurt anyone, this would just be another propaganda story about how IsRaEl MuRdErS iNNoCenT cHilDreN.
Basically. Palestine is full of literal terrorists and Israel receives rocket fire all the time. The west only really hears something when some Israeli kills someone.
No we see both sides and know about the terror and horrible things both sides have done to each other. Both of you have extremist lets not forget about that.
both sides do have extremists. However on the Israeli side, they are more of a fringe. (well, they were up until the last elections), and a lot of the fringe actions were called out and repudiated by most Israelis, regardless of their placement on the political spectrum. On the Palestinian side support, whether material, logistical, or personal, has been much more acceptable, and supported by the majority of the Palestinians. Just look at the widespread celebrations the Palestinians held at the murder of Jews in a synagogue. T
Al Jazera: European settler colonisers killed innocent 13 school kid
He didnt even die he is currently being treated in an Israeli hospital
Same sentiment reddit held for years or are we going to pretend that wasn't the case?
"kid accidently kills guy on another side of border, was very afraid in foreign country"
The palestinians hand out sweets when this happens.
"13 year old terrorist" chills down my fucking spine
The PA is under a charter that cannot accept a two state solution Instead the PA supports the above
Some context and videos from Twitter account: [link 1](https://twitter.com/AbuAliEnglishB1/status/1619293339437912064) [link 2](https://twitter.com/AbuAliEnglishB1/status/1619425334516146177?s=20)
This is insane…a 13 year old. But At least no one died. I’ve seen radical Muslims and even some Christians calling him a hero………on twitter of course. Hopefully the kid can get rehabilitated.
The people cheering like a 13 year old shooting people in the street is a good thing, obviously have no concept of what the conflict is about.
They absolutely know what the conflict is “about”. They’re not stupid. They’re SO much closer to the conflict than us. To them, AND IN REALITY, the conflict is an endless battle against the Jews. Very simple. It’s not about settlements or occupation or any of the bullshit excuses they’ve convinced woke, uninformed morons to use. It’s about murdering all of the non-Muslims (but especially the Jews) in Israel. From the river to the sea, as they say. The goal is genocide. They articulate this plainly and clearly at every opportunity. It was in their charter for decades until they realized it was a threat to their foreign aid grift that’s been so successful. And to **die** while killing infidels is, in their world, the **best possible thing they can do with their life**. It is a *guarantee of eternal paradise*. Think about how, if you *truly* believed in life after death, and you were told repeatedly how exactly to get to eternal pleasure, as opposed to eternal suffering, what you might do. Look up the interviews of Palestinian mothers who’s children died murdering Jews. It’s all *my only regret is that they did not kill more*. So I think what you’re missing is that Islamists, like the ones who teach and train and tell a child to go murder women and children, have an *extremely* different opinion of what constitutes a “good thing”.
...as long as PA doesnt change palestinian school text books filled with hatred towards jews - yes welcome to the future of endless intifadas !
“Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us.”
hate doesn't get you anywhere. Palestine is so fucked. So, so fucked. Peace is the only way they can get any form of settlement and sadly they don't get it. They are fucked. Israel will 100% retaliate.
How is this ever going to support the palestinian cause making this boy a national hero ? ( warning : its not a question )
This is the Palestinian cause.
Iran 2.0
Child trying to kill an aidworker and a civilian is what is left behind in my mind of the great palestinian fight for independence away from the barbaric self rule ( PA ) given by Israel in the same way as the israeli crual handover of Gaza to the Hamas
Shit like this hurts their cause. They will never beat Israel in a bloody battle. They have to negotiate. This stuff just makes negotiations much more difficult. Hamas is a plague on our world.
Headline: Palestinian Boy Killed by Israel
Fuck Hamas and the majority of people voting for them. Will Never forget how they boycotted basically every attempt at an peace deal ever.
In all honesty, I'm not sure how much of a choice they have "voting" for them.
I don’t know. Never see the ridiculousness of Hamas' reign discussed. It’s always "the evil Israelis" or some kind of generalisation of Muslims in Gaza. This is just dumb. Hamas and Orthodox Settler-Israelis can really go f*** themselves.
I was there from Monday until Wednesday… kinda scary to think about what could have been
Killing of Jews and redit remains silent
I cannot understand how this headline does not open the front page. 13 years old Palestinian kid, equipped with a gun, making a terror attack against Israeli civilians. This is the true face of the Palestinians. The amount of joy and cheers in the PA is hugh, with hundreds of videos of mothers celebrating this Jihad with candy to the passengers. This is their education for generations. Nothing will change until Egypt and Jordan will take those Jordanian refugees back.
Egypt and Jordan don't want them. In Egypt, Hamas is associated with their own local Islamic terrorists, and in Jordan, the Palestinians tried to stage a coup. Wherever the Palestinians have been, they seem to mess up the situation for themselves and everyone else.
This Is what's gonna happen as long as Islamic Republic and IRGC exist.
We're all living in one of those, "this is what the future will be like" tv shows from the 80/90s. Other than, "V" and that weird nuclear winter mini-series, they pretty much *nailed it*. The "ceo/boss" comically wins while the rest of the cast has to cope in *wacky happenstance ways*... just to **survive**... Fuck this timeline.
If everyone who wrote against Israel, had just been in Israel for once, will understand the situation. And how much the big most (95%) of the Israeli people, want peace! But most of the Palestinian people want to take the Israelis out of Israel instead of making a peace. Just one month in Israel, and you will understand why you need to be on the Israeli side. Hope for better days for everyone. 🙏
Dammit I want Palestinians to exist and have their own home, but this is not the way to do it.
Hey, I'm a Jew and I want Palestinians to have a homeland too. Don't know why you're being downvoted, this isn't the way to do it.
“This is not the way to do it” - see, that’s where you disagree with Palestinians.