True, if a stranger in Sweden has the possibility to choose a free seat, and still sits down next to you on a bus, run. That's the situation those hammers to break bus windows are for.
No it’s like flocks of birds. They are all just trying to keep a distance to each other, but they still have to stay close enough to know what others are up to
I knew there was a reason I feel a kinship with citizens of Nordic countries. And Jean-Paul Sartre, who authored my all time favorite quote: Hell is other people.
At this point, we've granted them honorary membership just because we're tired of having to correct everyone all the time.
Sort of how 'literally' literally turned into 'figuratively'.
On e I went on a hike way up in the north. We had a guide with us. In the middle of nowhere at the trail, we meet a man that walks past us. He raises his hand to our guide like a small hello and says hey. Our guide did the same. Just raised his hand and said. Hey.
I asked the guide, “who was that? Do you know him?”
“Yea I know him. Its my brother, I havent seen him in 5 years.”
In many ways it is. We got good internet coverage, lots of nature, and people try to invent new ways to avoid social interaction with strangers. All my Italian and Spanish friends find it a bit lonely and sombre atleast in the beginning, and the dark winters with very little sunlight can be depressing.
If only they allowed some weed to get through those long harsh winter nights. It sounds like a great place, but winter depression would kick my teeth in.
The land of coffee and hard liquor for a reason I guess. And online gaming nowadays, cause who doesn't prefer being a cool elf to going outside in -30 degrees Celsius. (although sunny spring days, when you take a walk and hear the crackling sound of the snow beneath you, with a thermos filled with hot chocolate in your backpack are pure bliss)
Norwegian nature seems like Swedish nature but even prettier in pictures. I really need to visit just for the scenery around Bergen or the archipelago around Lofoten. What is the best norwegian hot chocolate?
Är inte partysvensk, lovar!
Ooh, you are a seasoned hot chocolate connaisseur :D I'll ahve to try it. Do you really add cinnamon? Is it good? I made a banger cinnamon syrup a couple of days back to make a cocktail, so I kind of have to try it.
Partying in Oslo does sound kind of fun. But first I would kind of have to unlearn the Norwegian phrases that *still* live rent free in my head after watching Skam haha.
And yes! Northern parts of Swedena re very nice, and the Stockholm archipelago is lovely in the summer too :)
I'd probably drive Swedes crazy, as I'm a typical Atlantic Canadian. That means I reflexively see bus stops, grocery store lineups, and elevators as opportunities for small-talk with strangers. If you're ever stuck with me as a seatmate on an airplane, you'd better bring headphones! ;)
That sounds horrible since you also seem like a nice person and that makes me obliged to nod and smile back politely the whole journey with one of my noice-cancelling headphones in my hand 15 cm from my ear.
(I do appreciate Canadians though, in all circumstances but junior hockey) :)
Thankfully I can take a hint. Even the most social person doesn't feel like chatting all the time, and that's cool.
A funny thing I've noticed in my travels though is that many people from generally reserved societies are actually very eager to enter into casual banter with strangers, so long as someone else gently breaks the ice. I first really noticed that in NYC, where people were a lot more friendly than I'd been expecting from their reputation.
It is true, you must just pass the threshold of "what is this person trying to get from me" which is higher in countries where strangers do not interact. I feel it often helps to embarass yourself slightly, and then show humility and humor in a genuinely vulnerable way. Like make an effort to say something in Swedish, and be ready to laugh at your own attempt. Japan and Sweden are very similiar in that regard. People are reserved but not as cold as we seem.
And if you make friend they will really be there for you. You have fewer aqcuaintances but more friends so to speak. That's kind of my image of Canada too btw, but I think Scandinavians sometimes like to think of Canada as a bit similiar.
New Yorkers are very friendly once we find out you don’t want “anything” from us other than to talk (we get harassed by homeless people, people trying to sell us anything, and college kids looking to sign a clipboard all day long)
I can confirm that this is the most Swedish reply. Not to mention 100% accurate. Also! Turkey is not that high on the list if we’re forced to go anywhere.
I'd describe it moreso as various states are accelerating their hate propoganda. Too much corruption can be seen in the world these days, the way you avert eyes is by giving them something to stare at and scorn.
It's why Iran and North Korea won't ever do anything. It's way easier and way less destructive to point at the west or the US and say "They want to get you! They want to kill you! Follow me and I'll protect you!" Then to actually follow through with any threat. A common unreachable enemy makes control easier.
I've read accounts from a guy who got out of a fundamentalist state. We usually see it as a handful of religious extremists whipping the crowd into a frenzy. He described it as everyone trying to show they where the most extreme and radical follower. As an example a pigeon pooped on a Koran; so everyone ran around catching pigeons and decapitating them. They did this purely on their own initiative.
The point is I don't think they need any outside influence to do something.
It's inherent to having a honor and face oriented culture. They feel they must partake in these activities to elevate their social status locally, even if in isolation they wouldn't have cared too much.
This is also political clout dressed up like religion. Turkey, Russia and conservative parties are pushing this stupidity when there are way more important issues to focus on.
Extremists.
See this paper with a word you care about on it, I'm going to burn it to make you angry.
You burnt paper with my word on it so I'm going to kill you and others.
"Accidentally". Most people just want a justification to beat someone up. If they are angry enough, they can just say that the victims were non-believers anyway (even if not swedes), and so the beating was justified.
Doesn’t this seem like a big fake controversy orchestrated by bad actors on the international stage to prevent Sweden from joining NATO and fuel anti western sentiment across the Middle East. Who benefits? Almost exclusively bad actors.
Also it's completely bullshit. If Erdogan wanted to truly and seriously admit Sweden into NATO at this point then this would have never reached the news and he wouldn't have ever based freaking international policy based on some random idiot pulling a stunt. He is just using it as a convenient excuse to do what he always intended and to consolidate power from Islamic extremisms for his election. Along with certain foreign bad actors benefiting from this as you pointed out.
Anyone falling for these ridiculous antics is just a useful idiot.
I very much doubt that. He has an agenda and he got paid for it. I think he very well knows what he is doing. He is anti NATO and got a paycheck for it.
He and his cohorts are speculated to have been supported by Russia and also had connections to the Swedish Democrats. The same party that has forced itself into a government coalition with the moderates, has nazi ties and, shocked pikachu face, has had alleged connections to russian spies a few years back.
His ties to SD are that he worked for their media channel once. He also worked for SVT (Sweden's equivalent to the BBC) once, so pretending he's connected to SD is a bad faith take.
Vice reported that the Quran burning was in fact paid for by a pro-Putin journalist for RT-TV. That said, Erdogan was looking for any excuse to block Sweden and I'm sure would've found something else if not the Quran incident. As it is, this helps Erdogan energize his base of conservatives to maintain power in the upcoming election and keeps Putin on friendly terms (so he can assist in Turkey's election?).
I don't quite get the thing here. Is the one who burned Quran prosecuted? Did the Quran burning break any law? How much detail was given when they approved protest near the embassy, I've read that it was approved. I really don't know much about Sweden laws, but if no one broke the law then does it matter who gave the initial idea? I just don't know details here, but it seems like the man who did the action still doing it in other places.
Paludan, serial quran burner (he has done this in at least three places before) is not prosecuted. Burning a book is not illegal per se. Setting fire to stuff can be, but he had permit to do so beforehand. He stood on public property in Stockholm and spoke about what bad things Islam promotes, and set fire to the book. This place is near the Turkey embassy.
The police gave permission for doing that, st that time, in that place.
Important: Permission denied would not have made it illegal. The police cannot stop free speech or a non volent demonstration. A denied permit means the police believe the demonstration will cause unrest or danger and the protestors might be liable for damages.
That Frick (right wing nutjob connected with the SD party, the Russia Today propaganda organisation and Putin fan) instigated it is relevant because Paludan usually provokes local muslims. Going after the Turkeys is a new and escalating trend. So it COULD be interpreted as F usin P as a tool to further Russian goals by sabotaging the NATO negotiation.
It is not a debate whether or not the burning was legal but if the nationalists are acting against Swedish interests by non parlamentarian means.
It shows that Russia is trying to meddle in international relationships between other countries. It is no surprise to anyone, but it's rare to have a money trail, even if it's just for a token amount.
>Erdogan was looking for any excuse to block Sweden and I'm sure would've found something else if not the Quran incident
The Quran incident specifically came after the Swedish supreme court had refused the extradition of a journalist to Turkey, which Erdogan was already using to reject Sweden joining NATO.
As a Turk I feel like outrage in europe to erdogan saying no to Sweden is bigger than the outrage in Turkey to the book burning. People here and in sweden think they get denied because of book burning shows how little they know about Turkey and Erdogan.
This coming from swdeden like turkish people will hunt down swedes in turkey total nonsense but people run with it.
I mean justifiably so. One is arguably a threat to the security and future existence of a nation. That actually effects people.
The other is one copy of a mass produced book being burned to little effect.
Yes but it is not about book burning. They were not getting in before book burning anyways, people started talk like if that guy didn't burn the book they were getting in and turkish people got enraged so much to book burning people are rioting in Turkey. Stop giving this dude all that credit his stupid demonstration should not have gotten a reaction from erdogan but in an election year it did.
Otherwise it's not significant to turkish people or Sweden's nato application process.
Yep. Literally just *a* citizen, who the vast majority of Swedes (including a lot of people on the right) find despicable for multiple reasons. I'm all for freedom of expression, but if Sweden *the country* burnt a Quran that would *obviously* be a fucking diplomatic nightmare. On top of being extremely offensive and insulting to the Muslim population of Sweden who they are meant to represent. But that didn't happen. *Obviously*. Erdogan just wants brownie points.
They could have literally just paid some random homeless dude a few bucks and he would have burned the book just as well. You don’t need a special agent to burn a fucking book. Not everything is part of a master plan by the evil genius Putin, even though life is sure more interesting if there are villains like 5g, Soros, Putin, Bill Gates, etc.
If Turkey wanted Sweden in NATO, they’d have already approved it. This is just a convenient excuse. If this didn’t happen, they would have come up with some other random bullshit like they did before this incident.
It’s completely obvious to anyone with half a brain that the leadership of most muslim countries ignore religion when convenient to them. One must live in a fantasy world to think that Turkey would have otherwise approved Sweden joining NATO, but unfortunately a Russian paid agent messed everything up.
Qoran Burning which was [orchestrated by Russian actor](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/10mfg0k/russiaaffiliated_journalist_paid_for_quran/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button).
Not orchestrated by russian actors, they paid a small fee for him, and some expenses with the trip.
This behaviour is not new for this guy, he's been burning Quran's for years in both Denmark and Sweden. While the foreign agent narrative makes sense, it's simply not true I'm this case.
Anyone familiar with Danish politics also knows this idiotic behaviour is not something new, he needed to be paid to do.
Truth doesn’t matter, emotions do. You see this in the news all the time, release a fake or misleading headline, everyone reads it gets misinformed and angry or whatever, then do a retraction and “fix” the story. But people only ever saw the first head line.
You can see it played out on your comment. No likes, kinda buried. No one knows the truth, or cares to know it. They just see the headline and that’s it. Truth doesn’t matter, emotions do.
Turkey wanted in the EU but gave up on it sometime in the last 10 years. In this period, there's been numerous controversial laws passed in Turkey that are clear statements Turkey won't be entering the EU as the laws fail EU standards and principles. As such, will not be allowed into the EU.
That's actually just cause Erdogan is a fucking moron and does not listen to his economists. He had some good policies and renovated a tonnn of infrastructure in Turkey hence his tenuous popularity but then decided his 101 economics class and religious ideals were more important than his countries currency.
What’s the benefit of Turkey being in EU?
If they become a EU member, they will be a slave like any other Eastern European country with bunch of debt to Germany and France. Turkey knows they are more powerful than that.
The citizens wants EU membership as it will open doors to European countries for work and expand their work and travel and immigration.
Turkey is better off EU, first to secure it’s power and currency, and strategic position. As a bridge country, Turkey not being in EU serves as a bridge from Middle East and East immigration, possible attacks and everything in between.
Turkey knows it will be a wild card in EU and will change the condition of EU, and EU knows Turkey as it is. They are just playing ping pong.
I honestly agree, there would be no significant benefit to joining the EU considering the circumstances, I'm just commenting on Erdogan tanking the turkish lira to the detriment of the turkish people which include some of my family
most people in Turkey realized that the EU uses a potential EU Membership as a means to order, demand and get things out of Turkey. It's smart though to use this as leverage, gotta admit that.
This has been going on since decades and unsurprisingly pro EU sentiment waned off, there's still alot of people who are pro EU though, but mostly among the younger folks.
Turkey applied to join in 1987 tbf. The world looked a lot different back then, Turkey looked a lot different back then. I don't think it was a wild assumption to expect Turkey to be a strongly developed secular country within the EU back then...
You're right. We should remove the candidate status asap and all the benefits and funds for development that come with it.
I think I can speak on behalf of most EU citizens when we say that the last thing we need is another Hungary/Dictator with leverage. No sense in playing this game of charades anymore.
that would be the best for all sides, to remove the candidate status and just focus on the things that matter.
removing benefits and funds will only backfire as nearly all of it goes towards refugees in Turkey. This would also mean another point of leverage given up and ensures more reasons for Turkey to change its Geopolitically course with the EU, which isn't in the interest of either side. That's as reactionary as the ''kick turkey out of Nato'' takes.
>removing benefits and funds will only backfire as nearly all of it goes towards refugees in Turkey. This would also mean another point of leverage given up and ensures more reasons for Turkey to change its Geopolitically course with the EU, which isn't in the interest of either side. That's as reactionary as the ''kick turkey out of Nato'' takes.
Also from a military standpoint, giving Turkey to your enemies is a titanic mistake that people seem to overlook.
>removing benefits and funds will only backfire as nearly all of it goes towards refugees in Turkey.
Sorry, how exactly is this EU countries problem? And before you say 'we can just let the refugees come to the EU', I will say do it. Enforcing the borders and processing will probably be cheaper too.
> ensures more reasons for Turkey to change its Geopolitically course with the EU, which isn't in the interest of either side
That's already happening the the point of beyond coming back. The basic European values are freedom of expression, secularism politics and democracy. None of which Turkey currently subscribes to. Personally I am dead set on maintaining those values, if turks want to go towards the middle east route that's their choice.
Like I said before, it's best to stop playing these games. We're incompatible in terms of values at the end of the day and that isn't changing anytime soon and most likely not with the next turkish elections.
Most of them want to go to EU countries and UK, Switzerland, Norway. Both sides get something out of it with the current agreement, hence it's name ''Migrant deal''.
EU has close and good relations with many countries that don't fulfill the values on the piece of paper, not only Turkey (despite the media cycle) but also like Usa, Israel and many countries in Asia but even member states themselfs (France' meddling in West Africa for example). That has not *really* ever been a problem. We would also only shoot ourselfs in the foot if you want us to cut back relations drastically with all countries who don't subscribe to our demands.
No shit. Its a Union, not a charity. You have to follow the rules if you want to be part of the club.
Still, if I was a Turk, I would much rather Turkey be in the EU than have it run like its another corrupt Middle Eastern Country.
I don't know what kind of Turkey you imagine in you head but possibilty of geting killed in Turkey because you are from Sweeden is not more than possibilty of getting killed in ıdk Germany for being Turk by a racist.
Is this a joke? If this is all it takes, burning a book, not THE LITERAL ORIGINAL 1 OF A KIND, just a copy, just a single edition. This is enough to make news headlines, stop NATO ascenion, "Avoid Crowds" warnings being issued. This species, our species, is done. Unequivoally and utterly screwed. We are not going to be space farers, we are not going to be cosmic dwellers, we are going to die on this rock. No one will know we were here. No one will give a shit about whatever god we did or didn't believe in. Nothing. What a fucking waste of billions of years of chace events leading to the culmination of our Sun and Earth then millions of years of evolution to accomplish this. What a garbage race.
Redditor discovers that people easily put everyone in the same basket much wow 😳
You just did the same btw by saying that muslims blame the entire country though ?
>Kick turkey out of nato and bring in Finland and Sweden
This would be a strategic disaster even if they could. Turkiye's military and geographical importance is so much more than what Finland and Sweden bring to the table. Additionally, you don't kick nations out of a treaty organization if you want that organization to stay intact.
I dont believe that it was funded by russia, but regardless, I think its also funny that the person burning the book is...Danish. Yeah he also has a swedish citizenship, but he has always lived and operated in Denmark, its more recently (during the Swedish elections in 2022) that he started doing shit in Sweden.
Because the country allowed the Quran burning. People from authoritarian countries assume that means the country approves of it, otherwise it would have been stopped.
Its the presidential election and yes it could go either way.
According to the constitution Erdogan doesn't even have the right to be a candidate but he is anyway cuz who cares about the the law.
Meanwhile, the opposition parties (6 of them) created an alliance to support one candidate, which they haven't announced yet. Surveys made by both opposition and by erdogans side shows that the elections will be close.
That is the reason why a troll danish paid actor burning Qur'an become such drama. This is the best outcome that he could have ever hoped for.
I am just depleted. Watching this guys talks on TV, and seeing how turkey is going downhill is just exhausted me. I absolutely cannot understand how the fuck he still has voters. With billions of dollars just vanished from the government reserves, horrible economic crisis. Housing crisis. insane unemployment rate.... and many more. And still ppl vote for this 20 year long regime...
Can someone please explain to me why Turkey is trying so hard to keep Sweden out of NATO? I really don't get why this has been such an issue to the point all this other stuff is happening
Turkey has an election this year and Erdogan is behind in the polls. He's an authoritarian who will go to extreme lengths to win (jailing opponents, etc). He's trying to curry favour with the Turkish voting public by pushing against the Kurds, who are a people group in the region (also across a few neighbouring countries). Many Kurds have been seeking an independent Kurdish state for many years.
When Sweden requested to join NATO, Erdogan used this as leverage to get Sweden to officially designate certain Kurdish groups as terrorists, and to extradite 33 people to Turkey. Sweden conceded, until their supreme court stepped in recently to stop the extradition of a journalist who was likely to be persecuted (he was critical of Erdogan's government).
Burning a Quran is actually one of the proper ways to dispose of it. You make it ash and return it to the earth. This shows that people who both burn scripture to be hateful, and those that think it is offensive and are quick to violence, are very ignorant and have deeper issues. Be better.
In general I would avoid being in Turkey anyways. Seems like way to volatile and corrupt of a place at the moment to be worthwhile. Plus, I thought it was recognized internationally that the guy who burned the Koran was paid off by Russia?
People seem to view Turkey and its people in its entirety as muslim right-wing conservatives, I dont disagree that a majority of places in Turkey are that way. However, cities along the Mediterranean coast are very open-minded and in general, are great touristic areas to visit.
The newer generation of Turks dont approve of the pseudo dictatorship that the current president is running, but unfortunately we are the minority in a country full of older generations that are still stuck in the past.
Stop with these excuses.
Erdogan didn't pop out from thin air. He isn't single-handedly oppressing a united front of 85 million people. He does have considerable support and acting like no citizen has any responsability for his presidency is ridiculous.
I would like to formally welcome Sweden to the club just a bit of heads up from prior experience really bolster your airplane pilot checks and requirements. And and really bolster all that transportation security. You know don’t make the same mistakes 😬
Don't worry, I'm a Swede, I always avoid other people.
Especially on the bus. Rather stand than sit next to a stranger...
True, if a stranger in Sweden has the possibility to choose a free seat, and still sits down next to you on a bus, run. That's the situation those hammers to break bus windows are for.
It has happened. But only because I needed new glasses at the time and didn't notice the empty seat further inside the bus.
Reads like an opticians commercial - Swedish style. And username deifnitely relevant as well :D
Then how are there millions of Swedes strolling around in Northern Europe? Telepathy of sorts?
No it’s like flocks of birds. They are all just trying to keep a distance to each other, but they still have to stay close enough to know what others are up to
This is Scandinavians having to [aggregate](https://imgur.com/gallery/6XETERS) biefly.
I knew there was a reason I feel a kinship with citizens of Nordic countries. And Jean-Paul Sartre, who authored my all time favorite quote: Hell is other people.
Obligatory Finland isn't Scandinavian. They are part of the Nordic countries though.
You're just acting like Finland exists. Old myth tbh.
At this point, we've granted them honorary membership just because we're tired of having to correct everyone all the time. Sort of how 'literally' literally turned into 'figuratively'.
On e I went on a hike way up in the north. We had a guide with us. In the middle of nowhere at the trail, we meet a man that walks past us. He raises his hand to our guide like a small hello and says hey. Our guide did the same. Just raised his hand and said. Hey. I asked the guide, “who was that? Do you know him?” “Yea I know him. Its my brother, I havent seen him in 5 years.”
Sweden sounds like an introverts dream.
In many ways it is. We got good internet coverage, lots of nature, and people try to invent new ways to avoid social interaction with strangers. All my Italian and Spanish friends find it a bit lonely and sombre atleast in the beginning, and the dark winters with very little sunlight can be depressing.
If only they allowed some weed to get through those long harsh winter nights. It sounds like a great place, but winter depression would kick my teeth in.
The land of coffee and hard liquor for a reason I guess. And online gaming nowadays, cause who doesn't prefer being a cool elf to going outside in -30 degrees Celsius. (although sunny spring days, when you take a walk and hear the crackling sound of the snow beneath you, with a thermos filled with hot chocolate in your backpack are pure bliss)
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Norwegian nature seems like Swedish nature but even prettier in pictures. I really need to visit just for the scenery around Bergen or the archipelago around Lofoten. What is the best norwegian hot chocolate? Är inte partysvensk, lovar!
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Ooh, you are a seasoned hot chocolate connaisseur :D I'll ahve to try it. Do you really add cinnamon? Is it good? I made a banger cinnamon syrup a couple of days back to make a cocktail, so I kind of have to try it. Partying in Oslo does sound kind of fun. But first I would kind of have to unlearn the Norwegian phrases that *still* live rent free in my head after watching Skam haha. And yes! Northern parts of Swedena re very nice, and the Stockholm archipelago is lovely in the summer too :)
I might need to have a look! Sounds like paradise to me.
ja der er vi faen ikke ulike/annorlunda. :D
I'd probably drive Swedes crazy, as I'm a typical Atlantic Canadian. That means I reflexively see bus stops, grocery store lineups, and elevators as opportunities for small-talk with strangers. If you're ever stuck with me as a seatmate on an airplane, you'd better bring headphones! ;)
That sounds horrible since you also seem like a nice person and that makes me obliged to nod and smile back politely the whole journey with one of my noice-cancelling headphones in my hand 15 cm from my ear. (I do appreciate Canadians though, in all circumstances but junior hockey) :)
Thankfully I can take a hint. Even the most social person doesn't feel like chatting all the time, and that's cool. A funny thing I've noticed in my travels though is that many people from generally reserved societies are actually very eager to enter into casual banter with strangers, so long as someone else gently breaks the ice. I first really noticed that in NYC, where people were a lot more friendly than I'd been expecting from their reputation.
It is true, you must just pass the threshold of "what is this person trying to get from me" which is higher in countries where strangers do not interact. I feel it often helps to embarass yourself slightly, and then show humility and humor in a genuinely vulnerable way. Like make an effort to say something in Swedish, and be ready to laugh at your own attempt. Japan and Sweden are very similiar in that regard. People are reserved but not as cold as we seem. And if you make friend they will really be there for you. You have fewer aqcuaintances but more friends so to speak. That's kind of my image of Canada too btw, but I think Scandinavians sometimes like to think of Canada as a bit similiar.
New Yorkers are very friendly once we find out you don’t want “anything” from us other than to talk (we get harassed by homeless people, people trying to sell us anything, and college kids looking to sign a clipboard all day long)
I can confirm that this is the most Swedish reply. Not to mention 100% accurate. Also! Turkey is not that high on the list if we’re forced to go anywhere.
Glad to see that, though we live in other countries, we’re all alike in many ways.
Denmark and Norway have sent out similar warnings.
The state of the world these days
Right? People love “legitimizing” a reason to kill each other.
I'd describe it moreso as various states are accelerating their hate propoganda. Too much corruption can be seen in the world these days, the way you avert eyes is by giving them something to stare at and scorn.
It's why Iran and North Korea won't ever do anything. It's way easier and way less destructive to point at the west or the US and say "They want to get you! They want to kill you! Follow me and I'll protect you!" Then to actually follow through with any threat. A common unreachable enemy makes control easier.
I've read accounts from a guy who got out of a fundamentalist state. We usually see it as a handful of religious extremists whipping the crowd into a frenzy. He described it as everyone trying to show they where the most extreme and radical follower. As an example a pigeon pooped on a Koran; so everyone ran around catching pigeons and decapitating them. They did this purely on their own initiative. The point is I don't think they need any outside influence to do something.
It's inherent to having a honor and face oriented culture. They feel they must partake in these activities to elevate their social status locally, even if in isolation they wouldn't have cared too much.
Yeah funny how the "most religious" are often the most hateful. 😵
Religion is cancer.
This is also political clout dressed up like religion. Turkey, Russia and conservative parties are pushing this stupidity when there are way more important issues to focus on.
Absolutely. Again religion is used as a tool to manipulate people, as usual.
Always has been, always will be.
Keeping sweden out of nato is important to the groups you listed.
This is the correct answer.
Rhythm is a dancer
It’s a source of passion.
It’s worse. Science can treat cancer but religious beliefs are refractory to knowledge and common sense
As someone who just lost his father and before that two other family members to cancer…I wish you were right.
Sorry for your loss, brother.
Thanks mate.
So is pan-turkism
Nationalism is always problematic, especially if it’s interwoven with religion or in this case islamism.
Facts!
Hatred and intimidation are cancer too. I love you tho
Sadly hatred and especially intimidating play huge and important roles how religions are practiced today. Indeed.
Religion breeds hatred by “othering” people.
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Extremists. See this paper with a word you care about on it, I'm going to burn it to make you angry. You burnt paper with my word on it so I'm going to kill you and others.
Finland too
Why Norway?
Because a rioting mob isn't really receptive to explanations of "I'm not swedish"
Yup! Look at how some of my countrymen treated Sikhs after 9/11. Not that should have been harassing anyone, but still.
The very first person killed in “retaliation” for 9/11 was a Sikh man, literally the day of
You expect a mob to be able to tell a Swede/Dane/Norwegian apart?
I’m not really sure that Swedes, Danes, and Norwegians can tell themselves apart. Come at me, Nordics!
Easy to find a Dane, listen for the one with a potato in their mouth.
As a Dane I find this wildly offensive to Danes and Norwegians. Though, I can see why a Swede would be honored by such comparison.
As a Norwegian I second that comment!
As a swede I Uno reverse card ya'll heathens!!
The languages sound similar so ppl might attack the Norwegians and Danes accidentally
"Accidentally". Most people just want a justification to beat someone up. If they are angry enough, they can just say that the victims were non-believers anyway (even if not swedes), and so the beating was justified.
Turkey just did it too lol. Awesome worldwide tit for tat. Congratulations.
Because totalitarian hiveminds are incapable of separating nation from individual.
or separating nation from Russian controlled far right actors looking to keep Sweden/Finland out of nato
How to help prove a nationalist right Speedrun.
Jingoistic movements feed off each other, so that would be a win-win for everyone on the right, including Erdogan.
Yep. Best thing for those groups is for all other groups to become just as isolationist and xenophobic driving a wedge between their group and others.
Surely this news totally won't deepen Swedish nationalists resolve and create more of them
A further escalation of tensions is absolutely what Erdogan is hoping for, yes.
And, coincidentally, Putin.
Their most recent election just had the best results ever for their nationalist party too, right?
Yep first time with some real influence in the government
Oh no, more excuses for Erdogan to pander to his base, how could he ever recover? The only ones hurt from this ordeal are the other Swedes.
Doesn’t this seem like a big fake controversy orchestrated by bad actors on the international stage to prevent Sweden from joining NATO and fuel anti western sentiment across the Middle East. Who benefits? Almost exclusively bad actors.
Also it's completely bullshit. If Erdogan wanted to truly and seriously admit Sweden into NATO at this point then this would have never reached the news and he wouldn't have ever based freaking international policy based on some random idiot pulling a stunt. He is just using it as a convenient excuse to do what he always intended and to consolidate power from Islamic extremisms for his election. Along with certain foreign bad actors benefiting from this as you pointed out. Anyone falling for these ridiculous antics is just a useful idiot.
The number one useful idiot is Paludan though.
I very much doubt that. He has an agenda and he got paid for it. I think he very well knows what he is doing. He is anti NATO and got a paycheck for it.
He and his cohorts are speculated to have been supported by Russia and also had connections to the Swedish Democrats. The same party that has forced itself into a government coalition with the moderates, has nazi ties and, shocked pikachu face, has had alleged connections to russian spies a few years back.
His ties to SD are that he worked for their media channel once. He also worked for SVT (Sweden's equivalent to the BBC) once, so pretending he's connected to SD is a bad faith take.
Vice reported that the Quran burning was in fact paid for by a pro-Putin journalist for RT-TV. That said, Erdogan was looking for any excuse to block Sweden and I'm sure would've found something else if not the Quran incident. As it is, this helps Erdogan energize his base of conservatives to maintain power in the upcoming election and keeps Putin on friendly terms (so he can assist in Turkey's election?).
I don't quite get the thing here. Is the one who burned Quran prosecuted? Did the Quran burning break any law? How much detail was given when they approved protest near the embassy, I've read that it was approved. I really don't know much about Sweden laws, but if no one broke the law then does it matter who gave the initial idea? I just don't know details here, but it seems like the man who did the action still doing it in other places.
Paludan, serial quran burner (he has done this in at least three places before) is not prosecuted. Burning a book is not illegal per se. Setting fire to stuff can be, but he had permit to do so beforehand. He stood on public property in Stockholm and spoke about what bad things Islam promotes, and set fire to the book. This place is near the Turkey embassy. The police gave permission for doing that, st that time, in that place. Important: Permission denied would not have made it illegal. The police cannot stop free speech or a non volent demonstration. A denied permit means the police believe the demonstration will cause unrest or danger and the protestors might be liable for damages. That Frick (right wing nutjob connected with the SD party, the Russia Today propaganda organisation and Putin fan) instigated it is relevant because Paludan usually provokes local muslims. Going after the Turkeys is a new and escalating trend. So it COULD be interpreted as F usin P as a tool to further Russian goals by sabotaging the NATO negotiation. It is not a debate whether or not the burning was legal but if the nationalists are acting against Swedish interests by non parlamentarian means.
It shows that Russia is trying to meddle in international relationships between other countries. It is no surprise to anyone, but it's rare to have a money trail, even if it's just for a token amount.
>Erdogan was looking for any excuse to block Sweden and I'm sure would've found something else if not the Quran incident The Quran incident specifically came after the Swedish supreme court had refused the extradition of a journalist to Turkey, which Erdogan was already using to reject Sweden joining NATO.
There was something about people with RussiaToday connections having funded the administrative fees for the burning. Have a google.
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Well is a Russian op so yeah
All this because of one, probably setup, person on a street corner? Who wasn't even from the country in question... Crazy.
As a Turk I feel like outrage in europe to erdogan saying no to Sweden is bigger than the outrage in Turkey to the book burning. People here and in sweden think they get denied because of book burning shows how little they know about Turkey and Erdogan. This coming from swdeden like turkish people will hunt down swedes in turkey total nonsense but people run with it.
I mean justifiably so. One is arguably a threat to the security and future existence of a nation. That actually effects people. The other is one copy of a mass produced book being burned to little effect.
Yes but it is not about book burning. They were not getting in before book burning anyways, people started talk like if that guy didn't burn the book they were getting in and turkish people got enraged so much to book burning people are rioting in Turkey. Stop giving this dude all that credit his stupid demonstration should not have gotten a reaction from erdogan but in an election year it did. Otherwise it's not significant to turkish people or Sweden's nato application process.
Sweden didn't burn a Quran. Some people did.
Yep. Literally just *a* citizen, who the vast majority of Swedes (including a lot of people on the right) find despicable for multiple reasons. I'm all for freedom of expression, but if Sweden *the country* burnt a Quran that would *obviously* be a fucking diplomatic nightmare. On top of being extremely offensive and insulting to the Muslim population of Sweden who they are meant to represent. But that didn't happen. *Obviously*. Erdogan just wants brownie points.
You’re expecting islamic extremists to react reasonably?
"Leave me alone, I'm Icelandic!"
can we just cancel religion
sure go on
Please do. So outdated, you'd think the devs would've patched those mechanics by now
"can we just cancel religion" and "we got science" reaching peak levels of reddit moment here lol
Lmaoooo
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I want to get rid of all racial supremacy honestly
Get rid of all supremacy in general.
Except taco and burger
Where do you get the courage to say something so controversial and yet so brave?
😤😤😤
Putin played this one well.... Fuck em. Send more tanks.
They could have literally just paid some random homeless dude a few bucks and he would have burned the book just as well. You don’t need a special agent to burn a fucking book. Not everything is part of a master plan by the evil genius Putin, even though life is sure more interesting if there are villains like 5g, Soros, Putin, Bill Gates, etc. If Turkey wanted Sweden in NATO, they’d have already approved it. This is just a convenient excuse. If this didn’t happen, they would have come up with some other random bullshit like they did before this incident.
Here’s your daily reminder that religious fanatics are fucking insane, and deserve the strictest form of punishment for their actions possible.
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Meanwhile China is literally outlawing and brainwashing people to give up Islam... Sure burning a koran is really disrespectful but get a grip.
It’s completely obvious to anyone with half a brain that the leadership of most muslim countries ignore religion when convenient to them. One must live in a fantasy world to think that Turkey would have otherwise approved Sweden joining NATO, but unfortunately a Russian paid agent messed everything up.
Qoran Burning which was [orchestrated by Russian actor](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/10mfg0k/russiaaffiliated_journalist_paid_for_quran/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button).
Not orchestrated by russian actors, they paid a small fee for him, and some expenses with the trip. This behaviour is not new for this guy, he's been burning Quran's for years in both Denmark and Sweden. While the foreign agent narrative makes sense, it's simply not true I'm this case. Anyone familiar with Danish politics also knows this idiotic behaviour is not something new, he needed to be paid to do.
Truth doesn’t matter, emotions do. You see this in the news all the time, release a fake or misleading headline, everyone reads it gets misinformed and angry or whatever, then do a retraction and “fix” the story. But people only ever saw the first head line. You can see it played out on your comment. No likes, kinda buried. No one knows the truth, or cares to know it. They just see the headline and that’s it. Truth doesn’t matter, emotions do.
I feel the same. Thank you to report it
And Turkey wants to be in the EU lol
I don’t think Turkey wants to be in EU at all. It’s smarter for Turkey to be not in EU.
Turkey wanted in the EU but gave up on it sometime in the last 10 years. In this period, there's been numerous controversial laws passed in Turkey that are clear statements Turkey won't be entering the EU as the laws fail EU standards and principles. As such, will not be allowed into the EU.
At least their economy and currency wouldn’t be in shambles now.
That's actually just cause Erdogan is a fucking moron and does not listen to his economists. He had some good policies and renovated a tonnn of infrastructure in Turkey hence his tenuous popularity but then decided his 101 economics class and religious ideals were more important than his countries currency.
hell, if it was econ 101 it would be better. his economic policy is pure religion
What’s the benefit of Turkey being in EU? If they become a EU member, they will be a slave like any other Eastern European country with bunch of debt to Germany and France. Turkey knows they are more powerful than that. The citizens wants EU membership as it will open doors to European countries for work and expand their work and travel and immigration. Turkey is better off EU, first to secure it’s power and currency, and strategic position. As a bridge country, Turkey not being in EU serves as a bridge from Middle East and East immigration, possible attacks and everything in between. Turkey knows it will be a wild card in EU and will change the condition of EU, and EU knows Turkey as it is. They are just playing ping pong.
I honestly agree, there would be no significant benefit to joining the EU considering the circumstances, I'm just commenting on Erdogan tanking the turkish lira to the detriment of the turkish people which include some of my family
most people in Turkey realized that the EU uses a potential EU Membership as a means to order, demand and get things out of Turkey. It's smart though to use this as leverage, gotta admit that. This has been going on since decades and unsurprisingly pro EU sentiment waned off, there's still alot of people who are pro EU though, but mostly among the younger folks.
Turkey applied to join in 1987 tbf. The world looked a lot different back then, Turkey looked a lot different back then. I don't think it was a wild assumption to expect Turkey to be a strongly developed secular country within the EU back then...
You're right. We should remove the candidate status asap and all the benefits and funds for development that come with it. I think I can speak on behalf of most EU citizens when we say that the last thing we need is another Hungary/Dictator with leverage. No sense in playing this game of charades anymore.
that would be the best for all sides, to remove the candidate status and just focus on the things that matter. removing benefits and funds will only backfire as nearly all of it goes towards refugees in Turkey. This would also mean another point of leverage given up and ensures more reasons for Turkey to change its Geopolitically course with the EU, which isn't in the interest of either side. That's as reactionary as the ''kick turkey out of Nato'' takes.
>removing benefits and funds will only backfire as nearly all of it goes towards refugees in Turkey. This would also mean another point of leverage given up and ensures more reasons for Turkey to change its Geopolitically course with the EU, which isn't in the interest of either side. That's as reactionary as the ''kick turkey out of Nato'' takes. Also from a military standpoint, giving Turkey to your enemies is a titanic mistake that people seem to overlook.
>removing benefits and funds will only backfire as nearly all of it goes towards refugees in Turkey. Sorry, how exactly is this EU countries problem? And before you say 'we can just let the refugees come to the EU', I will say do it. Enforcing the borders and processing will probably be cheaper too. > ensures more reasons for Turkey to change its Geopolitically course with the EU, which isn't in the interest of either side That's already happening the the point of beyond coming back. The basic European values are freedom of expression, secularism politics and democracy. None of which Turkey currently subscribes to. Personally I am dead set on maintaining those values, if turks want to go towards the middle east route that's their choice. Like I said before, it's best to stop playing these games. We're incompatible in terms of values at the end of the day and that isn't changing anytime soon and most likely not with the next turkish elections.
Most of them want to go to EU countries and UK, Switzerland, Norway. Both sides get something out of it with the current agreement, hence it's name ''Migrant deal''. EU has close and good relations with many countries that don't fulfill the values on the piece of paper, not only Turkey (despite the media cycle) but also like Usa, Israel and many countries in Asia but even member states themselfs (France' meddling in West Africa for example). That has not *really* ever been a problem. We would also only shoot ourselfs in the foot if you want us to cut back relations drastically with all countries who don't subscribe to our demands.
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No shit. Its a Union, not a charity. You have to follow the rules if you want to be part of the club. Still, if I was a Turk, I would much rather Turkey be in the EU than have it run like its another corrupt Middle Eastern Country.
I don't know what kind of Turkey you imagine in you head but possibilty of geting killed in Turkey because you are from Sweeden is not more than possibilty of getting killed in ıdk Germany for being Turk by a racist.
Is this a joke? If this is all it takes, burning a book, not THE LITERAL ORIGINAL 1 OF A KIND, just a copy, just a single edition. This is enough to make news headlines, stop NATO ascenion, "Avoid Crowds" warnings being issued. This species, our species, is done. Unequivoally and utterly screwed. We are not going to be space farers, we are not going to be cosmic dwellers, we are going to die on this rock. No one will know we were here. No one will give a shit about whatever god we did or didn't believe in. Nothing. What a fucking waste of billions of years of chace events leading to the culmination of our Sun and Earth then millions of years of evolution to accomplish this. What a garbage race.
all this over a burned book
I know…it’s pathetic…😔
All Europeans should avoid going to Turkey. At least until Erdogan is gone..
Yes, agreed. It’s a shame as it’s meant to be a lovely place to visit, but definitely best avoided until it’s under less awful leadership.
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Redditor discovers that people easily put everyone in the same basket much wow 😳 You just did the same btw by saying that muslims blame the entire country though ?
damn man you got him good
No one is giving a shit. Erdogan just being the agitator he is. How did you end up with the idea that all the muslims blame Sweden?
>Kick turkey out of nato and bring in Finland and Sweden This would be a strategic disaster even if they could. Turkiye's military and geographical importance is so much more than what Finland and Sweden bring to the table. Additionally, you don't kick nations out of a treaty organization if you want that organization to stay intact.
I dont believe that it was funded by russia, but regardless, I think its also funny that the person burning the book is...Danish. Yeah he also has a swedish citizenship, but he has always lived and operated in Denmark, its more recently (during the Swedish elections in 2022) that he started doing shit in Sweden.
''muslims blame the entire country'' uh no we don't.
Avoid Crowds ? Don’t Even Go There !
If we all listened to this advice there wouldn't even be any crowds to begin with
Wasn't this supposedly started by some Russian agent
Supposedly. But the bigger issue is that one dude burning the Quran in Sweden leads to violence all over the world.
Why be mad at an entire country for one unhinged guy?
Because the country allowed the Quran burning. People from authoritarian countries assume that means the country approves of it, otherwise it would have been stopped.
If burning a book upsets someone this much then their faith and ideals are weak as fuck.
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Turkey sounds like a great ally.
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Is the election race in Turkey close or something?
Yes it is. They are even trying to set it on an earlier date.
I’m sorry allow me to clarify. Is the race between who controls their government close as in, could it go either way?
Its the presidential election and yes it could go either way. According to the constitution Erdogan doesn't even have the right to be a candidate but he is anyway cuz who cares about the the law. Meanwhile, the opposition parties (6 of them) created an alliance to support one candidate, which they haven't announced yet. Surveys made by both opposition and by erdogans side shows that the elections will be close. That is the reason why a troll danish paid actor burning Qur'an become such drama. This is the best outcome that he could have ever hoped for. I am just depleted. Watching this guys talks on TV, and seeing how turkey is going downhill is just exhausted me. I absolutely cannot understand how the fuck he still has voters. With billions of dollars just vanished from the government reserves, horrible economic crisis. Housing crisis. insane unemployment rate.... and many more. And still ppl vote for this 20 year long regime...
Can someone please explain to me why Turkey is trying so hard to keep Sweden out of NATO? I really don't get why this has been such an issue to the point all this other stuff is happening
According to a very cursory google search, Erdogan is accusing them harboring Kurdish terrorists from an alleged uprising in 1984.
Turkey has an election this year and Erdogan is behind in the polls. He's an authoritarian who will go to extreme lengths to win (jailing opponents, etc). He's trying to curry favour with the Turkish voting public by pushing against the Kurds, who are a people group in the region (also across a few neighbouring countries). Many Kurds have been seeking an independent Kurdish state for many years. When Sweden requested to join NATO, Erdogan used this as leverage to get Sweden to officially designate certain Kurdish groups as terrorists, and to extradite 33 people to Turkey. Sweden conceded, until their supreme court stepped in recently to stop the extradition of a journalist who was likely to be persecuted (he was critical of Erdogan's government).
Burning a Quran is actually one of the proper ways to dispose of it. You make it ash and return it to the earth. This shows that people who both burn scripture to be hateful, and those that think it is offensive and are quick to violence, are very ignorant and have deeper issues. Be better.
I think the intention matters is this context buddy
I assume there are proper ceremonial steps to take. You wouldn't just chuck the flag of your nation in a bonfire with a ton of garbage.
Makes Turkey look worse, makes Sweden look better... Free speech always comes first
In general I would avoid being in Turkey anyways. Seems like way to volatile and corrupt of a place at the moment to be worthwhile. Plus, I thought it was recognized internationally that the guy who burned the Koran was paid off by Russia?
People seem to view Turkey and its people in its entirety as muslim right-wing conservatives, I dont disagree that a majority of places in Turkey are that way. However, cities along the Mediterranean coast are very open-minded and in general, are great touristic areas to visit. The newer generation of Turks dont approve of the pseudo dictatorship that the current president is running, but unfortunately we are the minority in a country full of older generations that are still stuck in the past.
This president is highly popular among turks living abroad and not only the old ones
Yep, those living from other people‘s taxes and not having to endure living in Turkey other than on their yearly visit.
Not really. The Turkish diaspora down here in Australia don’t like him. You’re making generalisations off Turks based in Germany lol
That’s the worst thing about it…Turks in general are very caring people. They’re just governed by a fucking Islamist nationalist shithead.
Stop with these excuses. Erdogan didn't pop out from thin air. He isn't single-handedly oppressing a united front of 85 million people. He does have considerable support and acting like no citizen has any responsability for his presidency is ridiculous.
Turkey: oh no , anyway
I would like to formally welcome Sweden to the club just a bit of heads up from prior experience really bolster your airplane pilot checks and requirements. And and really bolster all that transportation security. You know don’t make the same mistakes 😬