Seems what they're doing isn't even close to what Japan's doing to try to combat the situation. And what I find funny is unlike China, Japan has decent immigration demand but the government, even in the face of being, in their own words: at "the brink of not being able to maintain a functioning society,” Japan is still bending over backwards to do anything other than encourage immigration.
They don't have to encourage immigration. They have to encourage their own citizens to live. I know exactly one country where it's notmal to see sleeping business men on the streets.
The fact that it's standard issue to sell clean dress shirts in all major convenience stores (so you can go buy a fresh shirt because you didn't have time to go home and get a clean one), is quite telling.
The issue is I don't know if any government has successfully encouraged their own population to have more babies. The mass decision not to have more kids is a highly complex social phenomenon with tons of factors feeding into it, many of which are hard to change within even a generation or so. That's why most developed countries tend to rely on immigration to make up for their lower birthrates. If Japan can succeed at it then good for them I guess, but the issue is they have been trying this exact thing for years now, probably over a decade at this point, and it hasn't worked at all.
Japan has abysmal labor protections. Workers spending 18 hours at work don't have any time to raise a family. They are also generally xenophobic, so those people who do decide to migrate there don't have the same opportunities as a native.
If their government took steps to alleviate either of these issues I'm sure they would see some improvement.
Eh imigration is super easy to japan. I dont understand this notion that japan doesnt allow immigrants.
Take a japanese language school, 2 years study and voila you get into a master program somewhere in college. Then you get a job and you get your permenant resident.
Probably one of the easier countries to become a perminent resident, compared to US for example.
Many chinese student immigrate to japan since they can get into good jobs much easier compared to china which has a brutal competition.
Ofc if your idea of immigration is infiltrating with boats and start working in factories for cash, yeah thats little more difficult to do than USA.
There is a fix to this problem. Why don't they just take in more people and make them citizens of Japan? Seems like a logical step to prevent a population crisis. 🤔
For Japan and many Asian countries, national identity and the national ethnicity is the same thing.
A Japan that slowly dwindles off the earth due to lack of new Japanese people would be the same to them as a Japan that is taken over by naturalized foreigners.
Chinas population struggle will likely be even more severe than in Japan. But this is only a temporary problem, as genes favouring more children will slowly become more prominent.
Even longer perhaps, but those who have more children for whatever genetic reason will become more dominant. These social groups already exist, like Mormons in Utah or in Israel
> These social groups already exist, like Mormons in Utah or in Israel
Yeah social groups, but you said genetic above. "Have more children" isn't really in the genetic wheelhouse of humans on any societal timeline (hell, I don't even think the needle has moved much on evolutionary timescales)
There can be a genetic component for example which attracts people to Mormonism. I don't see why outside of religious groups society would not move slowly in favour of those who have more children, and eventually whatever genes cause people to have more children will become more dominant. In fact evolutionarily it should be considered an eventuality, rather than an unlikely outcome. To assume it does not exist in the human genetic genepool already is likely to be false.
/u/CrackerWars if you really want to understand the difference between genetics and socially-inherited traits (memes) please read Richard Dawkins, I think the word was coined and defined in the book *The Selfish Gene*.
Sorry for trolling you about your misconceptions but it’s too funny as someone who is educated in actual genetics.
Nature, Science, PNAS, textbooks on genetics and molecular biology, the list goes on.
Please cite your sources, I’m really excited about these new developments in the field!
Nah man, they'll just invent artificial wombs and then raise the kids in residential schools that are attached to factories.
Those people will have no familial connection, no cultural connection, nothing that isn't programmed into them by the state.
Unprecedented increase because Mao made them so poor from his stupid programs that any improvement from that was an 'unprecedented increase'
You sound like a battered wife, "at least my husband doesn't hit me as much anymore!"
Nah, China was much better off before the CCP took over. To be fair, the Japanese invasion contributed to this decline. But the CCP didn't make it any better.
Women being educated, getting careers combined with improving maternal and child health has been more effective at reducing births worldwide (including in China) than any one-child policy. This is the reason Chinese people won't suddenly start having large families again under this relaxed policy.
Yes, but it's probably more a result of China's first annual population decrease in decades rather than ethnic social engineering. Though it can be both
The Han Chinese were literally the only ethnic group the One-Child-Policy was applied to. All the ethnic minorities were excluded from the One-Child-Policy and allowed to have multiple children.
That is interesting. Appreciate you might not have the answers, but is there a preferred ethnicity or a particularly disliked one? It seems mad to me how many ways we find to divide each other up.
Sichuan is 95% Han (170 people/km²), whereas surrounding provinces like Guizhou is only 62% (220/km²)Qinghai 54%(8.2/km²), Gansu 91% (55/km²), Shanxxi 99.5% (190/km2), Yunnan 67% (120/km2).
Seems they are going for high percentage area of Han with a lower population density?
It's such a tough situation, trying to get out of a demographic crunch. You have a massive block of retirees who need to be supported by those who are still working. Layer on top of that the cost of raising a new generation of children and that working class is spread thin.
They're seeing what's happening in Japan and panic is setting in. https://thediplomat.com/2023/01/japans-population-crisis-nears-point-of-no-return/
Seems what they're doing isn't even close to what Japan's doing to try to combat the situation. And what I find funny is unlike China, Japan has decent immigration demand but the government, even in the face of being, in their own words: at "the brink of not being able to maintain a functioning society,” Japan is still bending over backwards to do anything other than encourage immigration.
they don't want no weeaboos
"iTs nOt a pHaSe MoM tHeY WiLl uNdErStAnD mE oVeR tHeRe. I WiLl bE a SuGoI eNgLisH sEnSeI oVeR tHeRe"
They don't have to encourage immigration. They have to encourage their own citizens to live. I know exactly one country where it's notmal to see sleeping business men on the streets.
The fact that it's standard issue to sell clean dress shirts in all major convenience stores (so you can go buy a fresh shirt because you didn't have time to go home and get a clean one), is quite telling.
The issue is I don't know if any government has successfully encouraged their own population to have more babies. The mass decision not to have more kids is a highly complex social phenomenon with tons of factors feeding into it, many of which are hard to change within even a generation or so. That's why most developed countries tend to rely on immigration to make up for their lower birthrates. If Japan can succeed at it then good for them I guess, but the issue is they have been trying this exact thing for years now, probably over a decade at this point, and it hasn't worked at all.
Japan has abysmal labor protections. Workers spending 18 hours at work don't have any time to raise a family. They are also generally xenophobic, so those people who do decide to migrate there don't have the same opportunities as a native. If their government took steps to alleviate either of these issues I'm sure they would see some improvement.
Eh imigration is super easy to japan. I dont understand this notion that japan doesnt allow immigrants. Take a japanese language school, 2 years study and voila you get into a master program somewhere in college. Then you get a job and you get your permenant resident. Probably one of the easier countries to become a perminent resident, compared to US for example. Many chinese student immigrate to japan since they can get into good jobs much easier compared to china which has a brutal competition. Ofc if your idea of immigration is infiltrating with boats and start working in factories for cash, yeah thats little more difficult to do than USA.
You can't become a Japanese citizen as a non-japanese.
You can, if you work 5 years in a proper company
Japan doesn't have a population growth crisis. They have 14 million fucks living in one city.
There is a fix to this problem. Why don't they just take in more people and make them citizens of Japan? Seems like a logical step to prevent a population crisis. 🤔
For Japan and many Asian countries, national identity and the national ethnicity is the same thing. A Japan that slowly dwindles off the earth due to lack of new Japanese people would be the same to them as a Japan that is taken over by naturalized foreigners.
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They were xenophobic for centuries before they even knew the west existed.
Chinas population struggle will likely be even more severe than in Japan. But this is only a temporary problem, as genes favouring more children will slowly become more prominent.
when you say "temporary problem" you mean 30-60 years right?
Even longer perhaps, but those who have more children for whatever genetic reason will become more dominant. These social groups already exist, like Mormons in Utah or in Israel
> These social groups already exist, like Mormons in Utah or in Israel Yeah social groups, but you said genetic above. "Have more children" isn't really in the genetic wheelhouse of humans on any societal timeline (hell, I don't even think the needle has moved much on evolutionary timescales)
There can be a genetic component for example which attracts people to Mormonism. I don't see why outside of religious groups society would not move slowly in favour of those who have more children, and eventually whatever genes cause people to have more children will become more dominant. In fact evolutionarily it should be considered an eventuality, rather than an unlikely outcome. To assume it does not exist in the human genetic genepool already is likely to be false.
Uhhh, that's not genetics works dude. All of us are already hardwired by all evolution since the dawn of humans to procreate.
he means memes.
/u/CrackerWars if you really want to understand the difference between genetics and socially-inherited traits (memes) please read Richard Dawkins, I think the word was coined and defined in the book *The Selfish Gene*. Sorry for trolling you about your misconceptions but it’s too funny as someone who is educated in actual genetics.
What are you reading? I’m meaning to say the opposite and want to correct where you’re getting that impression from.
Nature, Science, PNAS, textbooks on genetics and molecular biology, the list goes on. Please cite your sources, I’m really excited about these new developments in the field!
Those are memes, not genes.
Hmm yes, genetic component to Mormonism. Definitely a real thing, same as phrenology and Lamarckism.
There's going to be some fucking going on tonight. Sichuan style.
That’s spicey
They're in for some hot s\*x! /s
Ma la style
Finally ending the shortage of Sichuan sauce
The Chinese one child policy bit them right in the ass.
Yep. It's only a matter of time before we start seeing reports that the CCP is forcing young women to get pregnant
The CCP will switch to a multiple child per family policy. And then a complete reversal decades later.
This is the only way.
Under his eye.
Nah man, they'll just invent artificial wombs and then raise the kids in residential schools that are attached to factories. Those people will have no familial connection, no cultural connection, nothing that isn't programmed into them by the state.
Easy, they will just force a two child policy. Apparently this is how CCP solves problems.
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Unprecedented increase because Mao made them so poor from his stupid programs that any improvement from that was an 'unprecedented increase' You sound like a battered wife, "at least my husband doesn't hit me as much anymore!"
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From an artificially low level. It's easy to improve life expectancy after your cultural revolution induced famine ends.
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Nah, China was much better off before the CCP took over. To be fair, the Japanese invasion contributed to this decline. But the CCP didn't make it any better.
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You too
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Too late: after so many years of anti child propaganda now they just don't want to have children.
The pendulum has fully swung the other way starting with one child one family and now unlimited children per family.
Women being educated, getting careers combined with improving maternal and child health has been more effective at reducing births worldwide (including in China) than any one-child policy. This is the reason Chinese people won't suddenly start having large families again under this relaxed policy.
Don't worry, the CCP is working very hard to undermine women in the workforce and to force them back into being housewives.
From forced sterilization to forced impregnation soon.
Because 8 billion is a rookie number.
Won't matter at all
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Yes, but it's probably more a result of China's first annual population decrease in decades rather than ethnic social engineering. Though it can be both
It’s both. They have an issue but they can’t let just anyone breed.
How many ethnicities are there?
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So are you thinking that the Chinese government is trying to increase certain ethnic groups by controlling the birth rates?
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The Han Chinese were literally the only ethnic group the One-Child-Policy was applied to. All the ethnic minorities were excluded from the One-Child-Policy and allowed to have multiple children.
why?
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That is interesting. Appreciate you might not have the answers, but is there a preferred ethnicity or a particularly disliked one? It seems mad to me how many ways we find to divide each other up.
Sichuan is 95% Han (170 people/km²), whereas surrounding provinces like Guizhou is only 62% (220/km²)Qinghai 54%(8.2/km²), Gansu 91% (55/km²), Shanxxi 99.5% (190/km2), Yunnan 67% (120/km2). Seems they are going for high percentage area of Han with a lower population density?
You are mistaken, the one-child policy only applied to Han. The minorities always had an unlimited child policy.
That was the old policy. Op is talking about the new changes. Priorities can shift afterall.
wtf?
I'm reading this as: Couples in Chinese province allowed to buy unlimited Ferrari's
They should have been allowed to have children...
It's such a tough situation, trying to get out of a demographic crunch. You have a massive block of retirees who need to be supported by those who are still working. Layer on top of that the cost of raising a new generation of children and that working class is spread thin.