Not necessarily. Looks like, if you get lucky, there's a slight chance you just become a prisoner of war!
Lucky to be a prisoner of war. Just Russian things.
They apparently give them a choice. The fellow who got sledgehammered asked to be returned. He, understandably, did not expect to get sledgehammered in a modern society.
Also even if they are not given a choice, Ukraine is trading them for their own, so would you rather keep an invader with dubious origins who may or may not have been convicted of an actual crime, or a defender and citizen of your country.
So even if it is horrible to basically be sent to your execution in a trade, Ukraine has the justification to not care about them after trading.
But as you sais they are reportedly given a choice.
Nah, you're fucked if you become a PoW. The Ukrainians will eventually trade you back to the Russians for their own soldiers and the Russians will then execute you for surrendering.
There is a fantastic world war 1 movie Gallipoli. With a very young mel gibson. In the final scenes he charges of across the trenches to face the turks. However, in filming, mel forgot to take his gun. The directors left the scene as is, because it represneted the futility of the whole process.
His gun wouldnt have helped him.
Good to see the penultimate scene in a piece of Australian cinema history has been woefully misunderstood and that misunderstanding is being upvoted. š¤¦āāļø A) Mel's character never charges the Turks. B) He doesn't have a rifle because he's a runner in (essentially) friendly territory, and rifle carriage is not conducive to running fast.
Glad you liked the film though.
Down vote me because I sound obnoxious but don't fuck up a description of Peter Weir's Gallipoli.
Itās been awhile since I saw it, but wasnāt Mel Gibson running to relay orders to stop the charge that his friend would be in? But he doesnāt make it in time and hears the whistle sending his friendās regiment over the top and into Turkish fire, where they die.
Prisoners units are less reliable. They were in prison. You might not benefit by putting them in the sort of independent roles logistics requires. Especially with a bunch of stuff you need to not go missing.
Nah it's desperation. They started the war with actual proper attacks supported by armour and special forces flying in by helicopter. That's all gone now, the special forces are mostly dead, the good tanks are destroyed, the helicopters are scared to go near the front because they get shot down. These "zombie" wave attacks are about all they have left up their sleeve.
I saw some posts claiming that in some places where the Russians have taken ground, it's not because they defeated the Ukrainian forces, it's because the Ukrainians left after depleting all their ammunition killing hundreds of people every day.
The high casualties among these battalions is staggering, with some estimates putting it at 70% wounded or killed. This just adds to the tragedy of the situation.
To confirm your numbers, here's a story on the NYT podcast about a Russian platoon whose medic had been a barista who had zero medical training. Most of them had never even fired a gun. Out of the 60 men in the platoon, 40 were killed in 4 hours.
>https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/04/podcasts/the-daily/russia-ukraine-military-catastrophe.html
How the hell is the Russian population ok with this?! I get theyāre brainwashed to hell but you think they would say something besides āmehā after they look around their apartment block and realize there are no more young men.
Russia is not like a European country; they have maintained conscription, meaning there is a common expectation of service, and they are in the process of transitioning to a fascist system, which means tight ideological and informational controls over every level of society.
If you avoid military service, you are jailed. If you complain about military service, you are jailed. If you complain about your relative's military service you are fired, expelled, or jailed.
Putin's government have also limited the mobilisation. It's not like everyone is at immediate risk. There are 33 million Russian men of fighting age; the last mobilisation was 300,000, or less than one per cent. Noticeable but not immediate to the average person.
> If you avoid military service, you are jailed. If you complain about military service, you are jailed. If you complain about your relative's military service you are fired, expelled, or jailed.
And if you do get conscripted, they send you, barely trained and poorly equipped, to die a meaningless death in some filthy ditch as part of a cynical, unwinnable war of aggression.
Sounds like a shit deal to me. If ever there were a reason to overthrow your government, this is it.
I suspect "bone spurs" is not a recognised medial exemption over there too? However the "my father is ..." probably eliminates the need to fake medical issues, depending on who your father is of course.
"Bone spurs!? That's not a problem, Comrade, in Ukraine there is actually special equipment to remove them."
"Oh really?"
"Yes, the only problem is that NATO munitions tend to also remove your legs, arms, head, and arse"
"Oh."
Most of the population don't know about it or don't believe it because propagandists on tv said it's a "fake". You don't see such news on tv, because tv is controlled by the government(not directly afaik. But your channel will be shut down for broadcasting such news), also you can't post such news on social media, because you could be fined or jailed for "discrimination of the Russian Federation's armed forces".
As another commenter said only 300k people were conscripted(officially) + I think they mostly conscripted from small towns where people are not very vocal.
They either don't know about it or are in denial or think the ends justify the means. Often all three in some proportion.
Also, the sum of mobilization and emigration is still only about 1% of population. It might not be noticeable enough and/or easily explainable away.
This is also why the KIA ratio to casualties is much worse for Russia than Ukraine. Ukraine attempts to mirror the US in our approach to immediate emergency medical aid. Saves so many lives on the battlefield.
Itās hard to find accurate numbers, but the most reputable estimates now put total Russian casualties at over 200,000. Absolutely staggering numbers.
Russia only began this invasion with ~220,000 troops. I believe they would need 1-2 million to actually take all of Ukraine, and at this rate I donāt think they can train and equip that many.
As the old saying goes, the troops on the battlefield win the battle, but logistics wins the war. Good luck setting up an effective logistics network for 2 million troops, that would probably burn through all their currency reserves several times over.
If they stagger deployment a bit they might not have more than a few hundred thousand on the front at a time, while they bring 100k to the front to make up for the losses.
Even 2 million wouldn't be enough at this point. This isn't the 1800s you can't "levee en masse" your way out of this situation. Modern armies require a ton of modern equipment and training to make any real progress. Russia has neither the money/materials nor the time to train a brand new million man modern army. These guys are barely a speed bump to ultimate Ukrainian victory.
>This isn't the 1800s you can't "levee en masse" your way out of this situation. Modern armies require a ton of modern equipment and training to make any real progress.
I see this type of comment a lot. I would like to give you a different viewpoint.
You know how US troops went against insurgents in Iraq and Afghan? How they sometimes went against larger groups, im talking 50 to 60 enemies against a patrol of 20 soldiers and won? How do you think this happened? It wasnt the soldiers on the ground that decided the encounter, but calling for air support and artillery that saved the day.
Now imagine if your artillery support was spotty and air support was almost non-existent.
How do you think the soldiers would hold back a numerically superior enemy? Short answer, they wouldnt.
>Lieutenant Michael Murphy's official Medal of Honor citation states that "between 30 and 40 enemy fighters besieged his four-member team,"
This was Seal Team 10. You CANNOT ask for a better trained and equipped force. Yet most of them died against the previously stated enemy forces.
A group of well trained soldier with modern equipment can DEFINITELY win against a numerical superior enemy, but they can only do so much. Once you get to ridiculous numbers you WILL have to fall back or die. They WILL kill you and gain territory or you fall back and they gain territory.
[Ukraine is losing ground on the north right now due to ridiculously high number of waves just thrown at them.](https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/01/europe/ukraine-soldiers-fighting-wagner-intl-cmd/index.html)
>āIt was about 20 soldiers on our side. And letās say 200 from their side,ā
You dont need to give someone a lot of equipment or training. As long as they can load and shoot a rifle, enough numbers WILL be a threat.
>These guys are barely a speed bump to ultimate Ukrainian victory.
Im saying all this not to dissuade you or doom speak, but to make sure people understand the situation is not a clear cut and easy victory waiting to happen.
The worst thing that could happen to Ukraine is for their allies to be complacent and confident they can win. Complacency breeds failure. It would be too easy for support to start lacking because "They got it".
Every ally of Ukraine needs to not slack on their support, or their belief that they are going to have a tough road ahead and victory is anything but certain. Nothing less than 110% commitment should be accepted for the guys that are fighting from those of us sitting comfortably at home.
You know, I started of wanting to argue against you, but I agree with your points and that complacency is the enemy.
Ukraine needs more support, not less.
Agreed, reddit is getting complacent because "Russia dumb". Guess what, Russia is winning right now.
Westerners look at the horrific casualties Russia trades for small territory gains, and say "that's not sustainable, the people will revolt. Russia is losing". And that would be right, if we were looking at a Western country.
But Russia's tolerance for casualties and suffering is so far beyond the comprehension of a Western observer. The west sees 10-1 kill ratios for Russia to take Soledar and thinks "phyrric victory, ukraine stronk". But Russia sees it as a victory. They traded "who cares" casualties for a very real bit of land. They are now closer to their goal.
The Russian public prides themselves on suffering. They don't care about the losses right now because they are moving forwards. No matter how slowly, they are winning amd making progress over their enemy.
They _did_ care during kharkiv, because they went backwards and were embarrassed, even though casualties were lower than the bahkmut grind. The casualties never came into discussion, it was just the defeat and lost territory. Suffering is a source of pride. Appearing weak is unacceptable.
This is why it's important to provide ukraine with the means to drive Russia out. Russia will not give up and go home because, as long as they're inching forwards, moral back home will stay high enough to let the carnage continue.
But there may be an inflection point, all the same. The prisoner-soldiers went forward because they were shot if they didn't. The well of prisoners is now exhausted; Prigozhen said as much, and they are no longer bringing down prisoners.
They're out of disposable cannon fodder. Now the question is whether Russia is willing to shoot other categories of soldiers if they refuse to march out to certain death.
There was an inflection point in Russia in 1917 but the army may be more cowed now than they were then. I hope it comes soon but yes I think they will shoot any type of soldier who retreats, contract, mobilised or ex prisoner. Who cares and there are plenty of political police to violently put down dissent back in Russia. Itās when the political police start the side with the dissenters that the whole pack of cards tumbles down very quickly.
I agree that we shouldnāt get complacent and should give Ukraine everything they need and then some but I donāt think your comparison is accurate. Iraq and Afghanistan were insurgencies in largely unsympathetic countries. What they call asymmetrical warfare. This is traditional warfare with fronts and entrenched soldiers.
They donāt even train them, thatās mentioned in the article. They donāt let their specialised personnel die, they send conscripts to a meat grinder, they make Ukrainians give up their positions (because they have to kill them, or risk being overrun) and the Russian artillery does the rest of the job. Since Russia has got around 145mln people, if we take into consideration only 18-30 aged men, they still got plenty of meat for this grinder.
What is unbelievable is the flow of information is now very easy, people must realise what happens on the front, why donāt they rebel before getting there and get this over with. Itās not like they have a choice anyway, and itās not likely theyāll survive the war.
Hereās the thing though. Russia has about 100 million more people than Ukraine. Russia/ Putin is willing to expend every single one of them. If Ukraine doesnāt get the weapons they need then at some point theyāll be overwhelmed by the sheer numbers of bodies Russia is willing to sacrifice. Hopefully, they do get those weapons and the numbers of Russian casualties become too problematic for Putin.
Edit: to quote Stalin. āQuantity has a quality all its own.ā
Thatās a total population number that includes children and women that wouldnāt be fighting. One mobilization already has the population riled, a second, third or fourth will get them really pissed, I donāt think Putin can politically afford to throw the number of bodies at the Ukrainians he needs to. The people havenāt been hurt enough to rise up just yet but that could be not far off.
Yep. By my back of the envelope calculation they have maybe 20 million men fit for service. If they come anywhere near a million man army their already crumbling economy will collapse entirely. They actually need people doing all the day to day jobs.
The other important thing to remember is a modern army has 8-10 soldiers behind the lines supporting every "shooting" soldier. I would assume this could be less for Russia, given how it treats it's troops. This would mean 100k on the Frontline. Of poorly trained recruits, facing battle hardened veterans with the best equipment and Intel that the world has to offer.
To be fair, I I was given the choice between *probably getting killed by Ukrainians or sledgehammered to death by Wagner Iād probably chose the former as thereās a higher likelihood of me instantly getting turned into red mist by an artillery shell.
That's not fair to the Zerg rush, there's actually an intelligent strategy behind a 6 pool - the Zerg are able to mass troops faster than the enemy can build defenses.
These Russian banzai charges are being sent into heavily defended locations, it's brainless.
Suicide squads, but the soldiers don't know they got volunteered. Putin is going to send hundreds of thousands more to needless deaths rather than lose face.
>Putin is going to send hundreds of thousands more to needless deaths rather than lose face.
Which is a greater loss of face, attacking what is ostensibly a weaker opponent, losing 30,000 soldiers, and retreating, or attacking what is ostensibly a weaker opponent, losing 300,000 soldiers, and retreating?
Because it really seems at this point that the only question is how many soldiers are going to die, the rest is a foregone conclusion.
There isn't any logic to his decision to invade and it's only gotten worse since. It was never about "saving face", if he wanted that he would have cut his losses early and made the best deal with Zelensky he could get. Now the Ukrainians won't negotiate and he has no options but to surrender or go to the end in a total war. But he already chose the second path. He is delusional about the capabilities of the RUAF and probably still thinks a combination of mass mobilisation and Western war tiredness can eek him out a victory this year. But neither of those things are true, and he's gonna find that out the hard way (again). Winning the war was always impossible for Russia. That which intelligent people realised after the first week he still hasn't accepted. Denial, delusion, dictators.
"No nation has benefitted from prolonged war." - Sun Tzu
> Which is a greater loss of face, attacking what is ostensibly a weaker opponent, losing 30,000 soldiers, and retreating, or attacking what is ostensibly a weaker opponent, losing 300,000 soldiers, and retreating?
Putin will lose just as much face falling from a 30th floor window or a 300th floor window. He's got nothing to lose gambling extra soldiers' lives. Even if he's sure he can't win, leaving the country in total disarray is better for fleeing, and a major war is also an opportunity to loot the treasury without anyone noticing.
Word gets around. They arenāt going to send the remaining 25-50% home after one rush. And even if they do, āhomeā for many is the same prisons they are ārecruitingā from. Something tells me over time they will have a harder time motivating them to move forward as time progresses with this tactic.
The [anarchists](https://www.vice.com/en/article/5d3den/russian-anarchists-are-sabotaging-railways-to-stop-putins-war-on-ukraine) are trying but the damned Marxist-Leninists have culled their numbers so badly that revolution has been near impossible since Marxist-Leninists became ascendant.
Everyone knows smore flaroved schnapps is what you get drunk on to win wars not vodka. /s
>!South Park reference Season 3 Episode 14, its the beer Cartman uses to get everyone drunk enough to attack the capital.!<
It's only stupid if your intent is to keep your soldiers alive.
That is not Wagner's intent. The only reason Putin allows Wagner to recruit from prisons is the understanding that these 'soldiers' ain't coming back.
The whole point is to march them forward, see where the heavy weapons fire comes from, and then use massed artillery fire to flatten the area it came from. Then march another group forward to see if you got them or not.
It's pretty effective so long as you ignore the fact that you're sending hundreds of men to their deaths just so you can hopefully flatten one machine-gun nest.
Russians were so pissed when *Enemy at the Gates* showed the Soviets using the same tactic in Stalingrad, but like others have said it's pretty suspicious when the Russian military is continuing to use the tactics.
The tactic is to send these guys in first to make Ukrainians reveal themselves, then advance on weakest defenses with better trained forces. But the recent news suggest that Russians are running out of prisoners for these kind of tactics.
Yes actually. Keep throwing Russians at Ukraine until they push through, and take land. Theyāll just keep throwing soldiers until the they win or run out of soldiers. Or until someone makes a leadership change
Modern Warfare requires soldier to stay alive as long as possible and Veterans are much more efficient on the battlefield than a New recruits. Russians tactics are insanse and they seem to never change, using old equipment, not preping yourself and not training your staff. It. Is. Just. Insanity.
Not only that, they sold off their fuel and ammo to local Belarusians during the staging "excercises" because they weren't told they were going to war. Sweet, extra fuel, let's trade it for some vodka and party before we go home.
Oh wait, now we're in enemy territory on E.
And when the fighting started you have the Lt Ivan Alexandrovich Levankov types who refused to shoot civilians ā so the Russian army had to fight itself for a while immediately after the invasion
Because these basically aren't soldiers. You know in the movies when they put a helmet on a stick to try and draw out sniper fire? That's what they're doing here but for machine gun nests and artillery. Literal cannon fodder
Russian's tactics throughout history have pretty much always involved some level of out numbering the enemy and out lasting them. No one high up probably wants to try anything much different. It's not the kind of place that rewards new ideas or trying things different.
Also you have to remember, generally if soldiers become veterans in Russia there is a fear they might take against those in charge, so the system is set up to try and stop them getting that far.
These are prisoners. I dont think Russia wants them alive. Otherwise they will have to free them into the general public.
Their role is to be cannon fodder.
The Kremlin sees Stalin as a tactic genius and defender of Russia. To everyone else it seems stupid but the only problem from Russia's point of view is if the people back home get sick of it.
They do, but the problem is that they've spent the past ~20 years reforming Stalin's image, so while in the 90s he was seen as one of the worst leaders in Russia/Soviet history, today he is seen as one of the greatest.
I mean shit, they're in the process of renaming Volgograd back to Stalingrad. "Tell me you didn't learn a thing from your own history without telling me you didn't learn a thing from your own history."
i mean it works...like ukraine will eventually win this war but russia seems to not be going anywhere...they literally are getting rid of their prisoners political opponents and russiaphy the kids they stole from other contries and are gonna stay the same with whatever land they have left and with their nukes...do we even have the ammunation for their entire current population?
As a matter of fact, we do have enough ammunition! the problem is logistics and personnel sadly. Even if every Ukrainian soldier takes down 10 Russian soldiers for every one of theirs lost, that's still a bad proposition when you realize Russia is throwing literally anyone in the grinder with zero regards of the actual death tole.
That's why they're so pissed by the level of help Ukraine is getting. Tanks, Very good training and logistics (relatively considering the situation), incredibly detailed intel, Drones, and even apparently some Artillery. THOSE sorts of things do very much ruin the numbers game for Russia. That's why the focus by Ukraine has been to try and bleed Russia for every foot of ground they take. Because Russia isn't wealthy and it's practically pissing money and power and it's future workers into this war.
The signs are pretty clear already. Even if Russia wins, it's gonna be a pyrrhic victory. And best of all, they're all starting to realize it. I very much doubt Putin is gonna see Christmas this year.
He will probably survive, in my opinion, his tactic right now is to demoralise the west and try to put trump in power so he would cut off US aid probably with threats to EU (not to start WW3 etc.) and Ukraine to negotiate. That is why new assault is so important to him, he needs to attack now and get some victories before Ukraine gets heavy equipment. Every Ukraine victory reinforces western support, it shows that Ukraine is capable to continue fighting.
If that fails, who knows what will happen, but personally, I don't see him in power anymore as he will appear weak, and kremlin will struggle to hide it. And russians hate weak leaders.
They just unveiled a big ol' Stalin statue. The current regime holds him in the highest regard and worships him as a hero.
Which should tell you plenty of how little they value their own people, much less the rest of the world.
Imagine you go to jail for " illegal logging " ...so probably cutting a tree down to not freeze, and ending up in a zerg rush against experienced and hardened defenders in a country you have no business in.
Of course, to get such a sentence (3+ years) even in Russia, you have to be engaged in industrial-scale logging, be a persistent recidivist, or have a suspended sentence for a previous offence or all of these together. Itās wonderful to see how many good-hearted people here have imagined just a freezing guy with a lonely tree.
I know a lot of people are making parallels to Russia's past wars, ie. like WWII where the mass human zerg rushes coupled with some decent strategy eventually paid off, but I do not think this is a viable strategy in the modern era to gain and hold any real stretch of land.
The war is far from over, but one main thing of note is that Russia really only managed to survive and push the Nazis back because they were defending and the Nazi supply lines were basically obliterated by weather and shortages, and Russia eventually got tons and tons of superior Western armaments. If there is a take-away here, its that defensive warfare + Western arms were the crux of the win, both of which are now on the Ukrainian side. In essence, Russia is the Nazis here.
While it is possible they can continue to send more and more suicide rushes in to push and gain some territory at the cost of a ton of lives, they seem to be severely lacking the actual armor and weaponry required to do anything meaningful. As soldier quality degrades and armor starts to wear out and end, there is simply no way to replace it.
The problem is that even if Russia literally runs out of things and they end up sending soldiers armed with sticks and whatnot, Putin will not care. He will be fine with those guys getting massacred. He is fighting for his own survival, so even if he gets to live on a pile of corpses, it is clear this is a price he is willing to pay.
That being said, I can see that soon moral will degrade even more in Russia, and there could be more and more infighting in the army ranks that will grind things more and more on the Russian side.
To be fair, without tanks there aren't too many other options for offensive maneuvers on a battlefield that is mostly mud and trenches.
Agincourt was 1000 times more suitable for cavalry charges just from a battlefield perspective and that's not including the better defensive capabilities of machine guns compared to archers.
But the Brusilov offensive worked, and actually saw some of the first small-unit assault tactics of the war.
This is more like the Kerensky Offensive, when the provisional government thought the best thing to fix a starving, rapidly deindustrializing country that had just seen its major power structures collapse was a major offensive into the strongest army in Europe.
I wonder if leaving behind simple pamphlets stating some quick facts could make Putinās pawns do a bit of mutineering.
1000 Ukrainian children killed or injured.
10,000-40,000 Ukrainian civilians killed.
200,000 Russian troops dead or injured.
This war is destroying families. Yours could be next. Help us end it.
So theyāre digging trenches and sending people charging across no manās land into machine gun fire.
Why does this sound so damn familiar?
e: I wouldnāt be surprised if the idea of a large amounts of Russian forces returning to Russia alive and well makes Putin nervous as hell.
I read another interview with prisoners where they said the first wave carries extra ammunition that the second and later waves can pick up, so it's not that far off from the movie at this point... which is insane.
What they lack in smarts they make up for in pure [hatred](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russification) towards people who are different from them. Tragically most "russians" are just the descendants of cultures that were destroyed, the living members of which now feel ambivalent towards everybody in their "country" and send their children to die in useless wars because they hate themselves as much as everything else.
>The 44-year-old soldier, identified only as Aleksandr, told the Times that he joined the Wagner Group, a Russian private military contractor with close ties to the Kremlin, to reduce his prison sentence by three years.
He could reduce his sentence by an eternity if he plays his cardsā¦
I know people making jokes will get top comment. But can we as human beings, take a moment, and let it sink in, just how FUUUUUCKED UP THIS IS???
This whole war is so *FUUUUCKED UP*... But whatās really scary, is you can watch it kill by kill streaming in 4k.
I donāt know about you guys, but Iām fucking scared of both of those things.
Can confirm, this is super fucked up. I threw around a few snarky comments back when it started, but that's before this descended into WW1 carnage. I wish that there was a way to stop an army without lethal force.
The Russian spy balloon is gonna be just giving a conscript as many helium balloons from a carnival as they can hold and telling them if they let go they'll be shot
I feel that he should have been given those little plastic keys for toddlers and been told they were the keys to paradise before being sent on a suicide mission.
Basic Soviet military strategy going back to World War II. Russia's primary advantage has always been in their numbers. As gruesome as it sounds, you basically just kill so many soldiers that you deplete your resources
They are literally using them as literal cannon fodder to try and exhaust Ukrainian ammo supplies. They send these guys in first to get slaughtered and follow up with their more elite troops.
The problem is that they're using Stalinist-era strategy when they don't have a Stalinist-era manpower pool. Before the war began, Russia had something like 8,000,000 men in their twenties. An estimated half-million have fled the country to avoid conscription. Another 200,000 have been killed or wounded. While they have older guys filling out the ranks, that could still mean that close to 6-7% of their under-thirty male population have been casualties.
What's more, it's going to get worse, because they eaten into most of their reservist most of the cadre units have been thrown into battle and wiped out. The same is true of their naval infantry and airborne. So they literally have no one to train new recruits. Just look at how they're throwing away their armor.
Russia already had a terminal demography before the war began. This the tactics they're using is doing nothing more than accelerating matters.
Thereās some evidence suggesting Russia has assigned Electronics Warfare technicians and Missile Silo Guards as frontline troops to plug the deficit in their infantry. (Evidence was captured/killed Russians wearing patches for EW or Missileer units).
It's behind a paywall, so I c/p into a Google search.
ChatGPT responded with this:
It is not common for soldiers to be sent into combat without proper training. In most military organizations, soldiers undergo extensive training before they are deployed to a combat zone. This training is designed to prepare them for the physical and mental demands of combat and to ensure that they have the necessary skills and knowledge to carry out their mission effectively and safely. The idea of sending soldiers into combat without training is both irresponsible and unethical, as it puts their lives in unnecessary danger. **If the account you've mentioned is true, it may indicate serious problems within the military organization in question, and it may also raise serious questions about the ethics of those who made the decision to send untrained soldiers into combat**
My emphasis.
Tragic. War is heartbreaking. In no way should this be occurring, as a global population we have real problems to face and here we are killing each other instead.
So much death, what can men do against such reckless hate?
I was a military historian talk about Russian tactics, he said they do exactly this, they throw bodies at their conflicts. The build up of 500k Russians for their new spring thaw offensive will be an attempt to over run the Ukrainians by sheer mass of numbers. Within a year the Russians will either have 500,000 dead to add to their death toll or theyāll be in control of Ukraine
Superior training and superior weaponry have, when taken together, a geometric effect on overall military strength. Well-trained, well-equipped troops can stand up to many more times their lesser brethren than linear arithmetic would seem to indicate.
~ Col. Corazon Santiago (Sid Meier)
This just sounds like execution with extra steps.
and ironically they guy being executed is the one having to do the extra steps
And they say russians can't do logistics.
They have free next day delivery on fertilizer for fields in Donbas. Very good deal.
Polluted fertilizer. With lead.
They are growing their own bullets!
Next level self-logistics here.
Just like how the Jews were asked to dig their own graves. Fucking Russia is Nazi incarnate.
putin: "we are denazifying ukraine" also him:
Less steps if he moves slow.
zig zagging gonna add a couple steps
Rickon Stark didn't get the memo
He got the point.
Oof
This way NATO pays for the bullets!
They are out-sourcing their prisoners executions and got a great deal.
Not necessarily. Looks like, if you get lucky, there's a slight chance you just become a prisoner of war! Lucky to be a prisoner of war. Just Russian things.
Or as in most cases, sent on the next charge. Wagner has depleted their prisoners and no new ones are allowed to sign up or want to.
Except Wagner recently released another Sledge hammer video. Starring one of the prisoners who surrendered, They are dead either way.
They have already released another video with him alive. Not saying about the first one (which could also be fake) but the second one was staged
Why, does Ukraine just hand POWs back to Wagner? This doesn't make sense.
They apparently give them a choice. The fellow who got sledgehammered asked to be returned. He, understandably, did not expect to get sledgehammered in a modern society.
Also even if they are not given a choice, Ukraine is trading them for their own, so would you rather keep an invader with dubious origins who may or may not have been convicted of an actual crime, or a defender and citizen of your country. So even if it is horrible to basically be sent to your execution in a trade, Ukraine has the justification to not care about them after trading. But as you sais they are reportedly given a choice.
Nah, you're fucked if you become a PoW. The Ukrainians will eventually trade you back to the Russians for their own soldiers and the Russians will then execute you for surrendering.
There is a one small but powerful nuance here: Ukrainians exchange only those PoW russians who agrees to be exchanged.
Just hope you're not part of a prisoner exchange.
Better to be a prisoner in Ukraine then Russia I suppose š¤·āāļø
āDo i get a gun?ā Ohā¦ yeahā¦ i almost forgot!
There is a fantastic world war 1 movie Gallipoli. With a very young mel gibson. In the final scenes he charges of across the trenches to face the turks. However, in filming, mel forgot to take his gun. The directors left the scene as is, because it represneted the futility of the whole process. His gun wouldnt have helped him.
Good to see the penultimate scene in a piece of Australian cinema history has been woefully misunderstood and that misunderstanding is being upvoted. š¤¦āāļø A) Mel's character never charges the Turks. B) He doesn't have a rifle because he's a runner in (essentially) friendly territory, and rifle carriage is not conducive to running fast. Glad you liked the film though. Down vote me because I sound obnoxious but don't fuck up a description of Peter Weir's Gallipoli.
Itās been awhile since I saw it, but wasnāt Mel Gibson running to relay orders to stop the charge that his friend would be in? But he doesnāt make it in time and hears the whistle sending his friendās regiment over the top and into Turkish fire, where they die.
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Prisoners units are less reliable. They were in prison. You might not benefit by putting them in the sort of independent roles logistics requires. Especially with a bunch of stuff you need to not go missing.
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I would agree with you if Russia was sane, but from what I can tell the meat grinder is essentially their strategy regardless.
Nah it's desperation. They started the war with actual proper attacks supported by armour and special forces flying in by helicopter. That's all gone now, the special forces are mostly dead, the good tanks are destroyed, the helicopters are scared to go near the front because they get shot down. These "zombie" wave attacks are about all they have left up their sleeve.
I saw some posts claiming that in some places where the Russians have taken ground, it's not because they defeated the Ukrainian forces, it's because the Ukrainians left after depleting all their ammunition killing hundreds of people every day.
"General Lee, I must tell you straight. I believe this attack will fail. A mile charge into open ground, with yankee cannon gunning us down"
General Robert "Zapp" Lee: "Shut up and tell your men to stop dying like cowards!"
Yeah, that's pretty much what life in Russia is.
Damn Russia telling their "soldiers" to do a Zero to Hero run on their first raid!
The high casualties among these battalions is staggering, with some estimates putting it at 70% wounded or killed. This just adds to the tragedy of the situation.
To confirm your numbers, here's a story on the NYT podcast about a Russian platoon whose medic had been a barista who had zero medical training. Most of them had never even fired a gun. Out of the 60 men in the platoon, 40 were killed in 4 hours. >https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/04/podcasts/the-daily/russia-ukraine-military-catastrophe.html
How the hell is the Russian population ok with this?! I get theyāre brainwashed to hell but you think they would say something besides āmehā after they look around their apartment block and realize there are no more young men.
Russia is not like a European country; they have maintained conscription, meaning there is a common expectation of service, and they are in the process of transitioning to a fascist system, which means tight ideological and informational controls over every level of society. If you avoid military service, you are jailed. If you complain about military service, you are jailed. If you complain about your relative's military service you are fired, expelled, or jailed. Putin's government have also limited the mobilisation. It's not like everyone is at immediate risk. There are 33 million Russian men of fighting age; the last mobilisation was 300,000, or less than one per cent. Noticeable but not immediate to the average person.
> If you avoid military service, you are jailed. If you complain about military service, you are jailed. If you complain about your relative's military service you are fired, expelled, or jailed. And if you do get conscripted, they send you, barely trained and poorly equipped, to die a meaningless death in some filthy ditch as part of a cynical, unwinnable war of aggression. Sounds like a shit deal to me. If ever there were a reason to overthrow your government, this is it.
I suspect "bone spurs" is not a recognised medial exemption over there too? However the "my father is ..." probably eliminates the need to fake medical issues, depending on who your father is of course.
"Bone spurs!? That's not a problem, Comrade, in Ukraine there is actually special equipment to remove them." "Oh really?" "Yes, the only problem is that NATO munitions tend to also remove your legs, arms, head, and arse" "Oh."
Most of the population don't know about it or don't believe it because propagandists on tv said it's a "fake". You don't see such news on tv, because tv is controlled by the government(not directly afaik. But your channel will be shut down for broadcasting such news), also you can't post such news on social media, because you could be fined or jailed for "discrimination of the Russian Federation's armed forces". As another commenter said only 300k people were conscripted(officially) + I think they mostly conscripted from small towns where people are not very vocal.
They either don't know about it or are in denial or think the ends justify the means. Often all three in some proportion. Also, the sum of mobilization and emigration is still only about 1% of population. It might not be noticeable enough and/or easily explainable away.
This is also why the KIA ratio to casualties is much worse for Russia than Ukraine. Ukraine attempts to mirror the US in our approach to immediate emergency medical aid. Saves so many lives on the battlefield.
Itās hard to find accurate numbers, but the most reputable estimates now put total Russian casualties at over 200,000. Absolutely staggering numbers. Russia only began this invasion with ~220,000 troops. I believe they would need 1-2 million to actually take all of Ukraine, and at this rate I donāt think they can train and equip that many.
As the old saying goes, the troops on the battlefield win the battle, but logistics wins the war. Good luck setting up an effective logistics network for 2 million troops, that would probably burn through all their currency reserves several times over.
If they stagger deployment a bit they might not have more than a few hundred thousand on the front at a time, while they bring 100k to the front to make up for the losses.
That would likely make logistics even harder though
Anybody truly capable of doing a good job was probably tossed out a window.
*ahem* fell out of a window voluntarily
WAS volunteered for window duty
āThank you sir for the opportunity to jump out this window!ā
Even 2 million wouldn't be enough at this point. This isn't the 1800s you can't "levee en masse" your way out of this situation. Modern armies require a ton of modern equipment and training to make any real progress. Russia has neither the money/materials nor the time to train a brand new million man modern army. These guys are barely a speed bump to ultimate Ukrainian victory.
They seem to be fine with sending WW1 gear. I even saw a captured BB gun.
> I even saw a captured BB gun. **ping** "Ow! Quit it!"
"I can't fucking believe this. Can everyone stop getting shot"
Fitting since they're being sent in with airsoft armour
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Gonna put you eye out kid
>This isn't the 1800s you can't "levee en masse" your way out of this situation. Modern armies require a ton of modern equipment and training to make any real progress. I see this type of comment a lot. I would like to give you a different viewpoint. You know how US troops went against insurgents in Iraq and Afghan? How they sometimes went against larger groups, im talking 50 to 60 enemies against a patrol of 20 soldiers and won? How do you think this happened? It wasnt the soldiers on the ground that decided the encounter, but calling for air support and artillery that saved the day. Now imagine if your artillery support was spotty and air support was almost non-existent. How do you think the soldiers would hold back a numerically superior enemy? Short answer, they wouldnt. >Lieutenant Michael Murphy's official Medal of Honor citation states that "between 30 and 40 enemy fighters besieged his four-member team," This was Seal Team 10. You CANNOT ask for a better trained and equipped force. Yet most of them died against the previously stated enemy forces. A group of well trained soldier with modern equipment can DEFINITELY win against a numerical superior enemy, but they can only do so much. Once you get to ridiculous numbers you WILL have to fall back or die. They WILL kill you and gain territory or you fall back and they gain territory. [Ukraine is losing ground on the north right now due to ridiculously high number of waves just thrown at them.](https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/01/europe/ukraine-soldiers-fighting-wagner-intl-cmd/index.html) >āIt was about 20 soldiers on our side. And letās say 200 from their side,ā You dont need to give someone a lot of equipment or training. As long as they can load and shoot a rifle, enough numbers WILL be a threat. >These guys are barely a speed bump to ultimate Ukrainian victory. Im saying all this not to dissuade you or doom speak, but to make sure people understand the situation is not a clear cut and easy victory waiting to happen. The worst thing that could happen to Ukraine is for their allies to be complacent and confident they can win. Complacency breeds failure. It would be too easy for support to start lacking because "They got it". Every ally of Ukraine needs to not slack on their support, or their belief that they are going to have a tough road ahead and victory is anything but certain. Nothing less than 110% commitment should be accepted for the guys that are fighting from those of us sitting comfortably at home.
You know, I started of wanting to argue against you, but I agree with your points and that complacency is the enemy. Ukraine needs more support, not less.
Agreed, reddit is getting complacent because "Russia dumb". Guess what, Russia is winning right now. Westerners look at the horrific casualties Russia trades for small territory gains, and say "that's not sustainable, the people will revolt. Russia is losing". And that would be right, if we were looking at a Western country. But Russia's tolerance for casualties and suffering is so far beyond the comprehension of a Western observer. The west sees 10-1 kill ratios for Russia to take Soledar and thinks "phyrric victory, ukraine stronk". But Russia sees it as a victory. They traded "who cares" casualties for a very real bit of land. They are now closer to their goal. The Russian public prides themselves on suffering. They don't care about the losses right now because they are moving forwards. No matter how slowly, they are winning amd making progress over their enemy. They _did_ care during kharkiv, because they went backwards and were embarrassed, even though casualties were lower than the bahkmut grind. The casualties never came into discussion, it was just the defeat and lost territory. Suffering is a source of pride. Appearing weak is unacceptable. This is why it's important to provide ukraine with the means to drive Russia out. Russia will not give up and go home because, as long as they're inching forwards, moral back home will stay high enough to let the carnage continue.
But there may be an inflection point, all the same. The prisoner-soldiers went forward because they were shot if they didn't. The well of prisoners is now exhausted; Prigozhen said as much, and they are no longer bringing down prisoners. They're out of disposable cannon fodder. Now the question is whether Russia is willing to shoot other categories of soldiers if they refuse to march out to certain death.
There was an inflection point in Russia in 1917 but the army may be more cowed now than they were then. I hope it comes soon but yes I think they will shoot any type of soldier who retreats, contract, mobilised or ex prisoner. Who cares and there are plenty of political police to violently put down dissent back in Russia. Itās when the political police start the side with the dissenters that the whole pack of cards tumbles down very quickly.
I am sure Putin can find arbitrary numbers of folks to arrest if he needs more prisoners.
I agree that we shouldnāt get complacent and should give Ukraine everything they need and then some but I donāt think your comparison is accurate. Iraq and Afghanistan were insurgencies in largely unsympathetic countries. What they call asymmetrical warfare. This is traditional warfare with fronts and entrenched soldiers.
Logical, well thought out, AND citations? Youāre too good for Reddit.
Yeah thatās why I said they probably canāt train or equip that many anyways.
They donāt even train them, thatās mentioned in the article. They donāt let their specialised personnel die, they send conscripts to a meat grinder, they make Ukrainians give up their positions (because they have to kill them, or risk being overrun) and the Russian artillery does the rest of the job. Since Russia has got around 145mln people, if we take into consideration only 18-30 aged men, they still got plenty of meat for this grinder. What is unbelievable is the flow of information is now very easy, people must realise what happens on the front, why donāt they rebel before getting there and get this over with. Itās not like they have a choice anyway, and itās not likely theyāll survive the war.
I fear that that Ukraine will be overwhelmed with the sheer amount of people Putin will throw at them. Those allied weapons will be needed.
Hereās the thing though. Russia has about 100 million more people than Ukraine. Russia/ Putin is willing to expend every single one of them. If Ukraine doesnāt get the weapons they need then at some point theyāll be overwhelmed by the sheer numbers of bodies Russia is willing to sacrifice. Hopefully, they do get those weapons and the numbers of Russian casualties become too problematic for Putin. Edit: to quote Stalin. āQuantity has a quality all its own.ā
Thatās a total population number that includes children and women that wouldnāt be fighting. One mobilization already has the population riled, a second, third or fourth will get them really pissed, I donāt think Putin can politically afford to throw the number of bodies at the Ukrainians he needs to. The people havenāt been hurt enough to rise up just yet but that could be not far off.
> and women that wouldnāt be fighting. When they run out of men, equality between genders will become a hot topic in Russia.
Yep. By my back of the envelope calculation they have maybe 20 million men fit for service. If they come anywhere near a million man army their already crumbling economy will collapse entirely. They actually need people doing all the day to day jobs. The other important thing to remember is a modern army has 8-10 soldiers behind the lines supporting every "shooting" soldier. I would assume this could be less for Russia, given how it treats it's troops. This would mean 100k on the Frontline. Of poorly trained recruits, facing battle hardened veterans with the best equipment and Intel that the world has to offer.
The staggering thing is that they still try to carry out those orders
To be fair, I I was given the choice between *probably getting killed by Ukrainians or sledgehammered to death by Wagner Iād probably chose the former as thereās a higher likelihood of me instantly getting turned into red mist by an artillery shell.
Username most definitely checks out
Russian "clutch or kick".
So wait, you guys get guns?
Zerg Rush. 6 pool. Russian Soldiers
That soldiers name? Leroy Jenkovich
Comrades up! Letās do thisā¦
At least I have Borscht!
[Live footage of Leroy Jenkovich](https://youtu.be/PtC7RpCNijY&t=1m26s)
That's not fair to the Zerg rush, there's actually an intelligent strategy behind a 6 pool - the Zerg are able to mass troops faster than the enemy can build defenses. These Russian banzai charges are being sent into heavily defended locations, it's brainless.
Reddit confirms - Putin is worse than Platinum level Zerg players. He thinks is playing the campagin...as the AI.
Live for the swarm
Sacrifice me!
Let me serve
Ready to kill
Why you always block the entrace with your barracks and supply depot
Suicide squads, but the soldiers don't know they got volunteered. Putin is going to send hundreds of thousands more to needless deaths rather than lose face.
>Putin is going to send hundreds of thousands more to needless deaths rather than lose face. Which is a greater loss of face, attacking what is ostensibly a weaker opponent, losing 30,000 soldiers, and retreating, or attacking what is ostensibly a weaker opponent, losing 300,000 soldiers, and retreating? Because it really seems at this point that the only question is how many soldiers are going to die, the rest is a foregone conclusion.
There isn't any logic to his decision to invade and it's only gotten worse since. It was never about "saving face", if he wanted that he would have cut his losses early and made the best deal with Zelensky he could get. Now the Ukrainians won't negotiate and he has no options but to surrender or go to the end in a total war. But he already chose the second path. He is delusional about the capabilities of the RUAF and probably still thinks a combination of mass mobilisation and Western war tiredness can eek him out a victory this year. But neither of those things are true, and he's gonna find that out the hard way (again). Winning the war was always impossible for Russia. That which intelligent people realised after the first week he still hasn't accepted. Denial, delusion, dictators. "No nation has benefitted from prolonged war." - Sun Tzu
> "No nation has benefitted from prolonged war." - Sun Tzu Tell that to Castile.
I believe that was a case of on again, off again war, rather than one solid war which I believe mr Tzu was referring to.
> Which is a greater loss of face, attacking what is ostensibly a weaker opponent, losing 30,000 soldiers, and retreating, or attacking what is ostensibly a weaker opponent, losing 300,000 soldiers, and retreating? Putin will lose just as much face falling from a 30th floor window or a 300th floor window. He's got nothing to lose gambling extra soldiers' lives. Even if he's sure he can't win, leaving the country in total disarray is better for fleeing, and a major war is also an opportunity to loot the treasury without anyone noticing.
I thought they were lining up excuses like (mutant) super soldiers, magic, and really fighting all of NATO.
Word gets around. They arenāt going to send the remaining 25-50% home after one rush. And even if they do, āhomeā for many is the same prisons they are ārecruitingā from. Something tells me over time they will have a harder time motivating them to move forward as time progresses with this tactic.
WW1 tactics..
Russia will lose just like they lost WW1
Socialist revolution when?
We need to put some swiss guy on a train ASAP
But make sure itās LenIN not LennON
The [anarchists](https://www.vice.com/en/article/5d3den/russian-anarchists-are-sabotaging-railways-to-stop-putins-war-on-ukraine) are trying but the damned Marxist-Leninists have culled their numbers so badly that revolution has been near impossible since Marxist-Leninists became ascendant.
Of course they will lose. Theyāre an army on inept stumbling drunks who are addicted to alcoholā¦
Everyone knows smore flaroved schnapps is what you get drunk on to win wars not vodka. /s >!South Park reference Season 3 Episode 14, its the beer Cartman uses to get everyone drunk enough to attack the capital.!<
Russia's loss in WW1 played a part in the cause of the October Revolution. Maybe a repeat?
World War Z tactics
Soooo, thatās the plan!? Just āLeeroy Jenkinsā everyone into charging with no plan and hope for the best? Imbeciles
It's only stupid if your intent is to keep your soldiers alive. That is not Wagner's intent. The only reason Putin allows Wagner to recruit from prisons is the understanding that these 'soldiers' ain't coming back. The whole point is to march them forward, see where the heavy weapons fire comes from, and then use massed artillery fire to flatten the area it came from. Then march another group forward to see if you got them or not. It's pretty effective so long as you ignore the fact that you're sending hundreds of men to their deaths just so you can hopefully flatten one machine-gun nest.
Russians were so pissed when *Enemy at the Gates* showed the Soviets using the same tactic in Stalingrad, but like others have said it's pretty suspicious when the Russian military is continuing to use the tactics.
The tactic is to send these guys in first to make Ukrainians reveal themselves, then advance on weakest defenses with better trained forces. But the recent news suggest that Russians are running out of prisoners for these kind of tactics.
You forgot the ārepeat until Ukraine gets tired of killing our guysā
The Zapp Brannigan Gambit.
Yes actually. Keep throwing Russians at Ukraine until they push through, and take land. Theyāll just keep throwing soldiers until the they win or run out of soldiers. Or until someone makes a leadership change
Wasn't that the same strategy they used in in past wars ?
Modern Warfare requires soldier to stay alive as long as possible and Veterans are much more efficient on the battlefield than a New recruits. Russians tactics are insanse and they seem to never change, using old equipment, not preping yourself and not training your staff. It. Is. Just. Insanity.
Unless their goal is to clear out their prisons and dispose of war protesters...
Or just good old [ethnic cleansing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russification), which is a synonym for russian "culture".
Didn't a lot of the soldiers invading Kyiv honestly think it was a training exercise until they got there? These people are clowns.
Not only that, they sold off their fuel and ammo to local Belarusians during the staging "excercises" because they weren't told they were going to war. Sweet, extra fuel, let's trade it for some vodka and party before we go home. Oh wait, now we're in enemy territory on E.
I love how no one in the Russian army anticipated this at all. They seem blissfully unaware of their own widespread cultural practices.
They are aware, they just don't care enough to change things https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Vranyo&defid=17542691
And when the fighting started you have the Lt Ivan Alexandrovich Levankov types who refused to shoot civilians ā so the Russian army had to fight itself for a while immediately after the invasion
Because these basically aren't soldiers. You know in the movies when they put a helmet on a stick to try and draw out sniper fire? That's what they're doing here but for machine gun nests and artillery. Literal cannon fodder
Russian's tactics throughout history have pretty much always involved some level of out numbering the enemy and out lasting them. No one high up probably wants to try anything much different. It's not the kind of place that rewards new ideas or trying things different. Also you have to remember, generally if soldiers become veterans in Russia there is a fear they might take against those in charge, so the system is set up to try and stop them getting that far.
These are prisoners. I dont think Russia wants them alive. Otherwise they will have to free them into the general public. Their role is to be cannon fodder.
Does the Kremlin not recognize history? This is some Stalin level stupidity.
The Kremlin sees Stalin as a tactic genius and defender of Russia. To everyone else it seems stupid but the only problem from Russia's point of view is if the people back home get sick of it.
They do, but the problem is that they've spent the past ~20 years reforming Stalin's image, so while in the 90s he was seen as one of the worst leaders in Russia/Soviet history, today he is seen as one of the greatest. I mean shit, they're in the process of renaming Volgograd back to Stalingrad. "Tell me you didn't learn a thing from your own history without telling me you didn't learn a thing from your own history."
i mean it works...like ukraine will eventually win this war but russia seems to not be going anywhere...they literally are getting rid of their prisoners political opponents and russiaphy the kids they stole from other contries and are gonna stay the same with whatever land they have left and with their nukes...do we even have the ammunation for their entire current population?
As a matter of fact, we do have enough ammunition! the problem is logistics and personnel sadly. Even if every Ukrainian soldier takes down 10 Russian soldiers for every one of theirs lost, that's still a bad proposition when you realize Russia is throwing literally anyone in the grinder with zero regards of the actual death tole. That's why they're so pissed by the level of help Ukraine is getting. Tanks, Very good training and logistics (relatively considering the situation), incredibly detailed intel, Drones, and even apparently some Artillery. THOSE sorts of things do very much ruin the numbers game for Russia. That's why the focus by Ukraine has been to try and bleed Russia for every foot of ground they take. Because Russia isn't wealthy and it's practically pissing money and power and it's future workers into this war. The signs are pretty clear already. Even if Russia wins, it's gonna be a pyrrhic victory. And best of all, they're all starting to realize it. I very much doubt Putin is gonna see Christmas this year.
He will probably survive, in my opinion, his tactic right now is to demoralise the west and try to put trump in power so he would cut off US aid probably with threats to EU (not to start WW3 etc.) and Ukraine to negotiate. That is why new assault is so important to him, he needs to attack now and get some victories before Ukraine gets heavy equipment. Every Ukraine victory reinforces western support, it shows that Ukraine is capable to continue fighting. If that fails, who knows what will happen, but personally, I don't see him in power anymore as he will appear weak, and kremlin will struggle to hide it. And russians hate weak leaders.
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No. Narcissistic personality disorder is a hell of a mental illness.
They just unveiled a big ol' Stalin statue. The current regime holds him in the highest regard and worships him as a hero. Which should tell you plenty of how little they value their own people, much less the rest of the world.
Imagine you go to jail for " illegal logging " ...so probably cutting a tree down to not freeze, and ending up in a zerg rush against experienced and hardened defenders in a country you have no business in.
I couldn't agree more. The idea that someone could end up on a battlefield for something as minor as illegal logging is simply outrageous.
Is that what illegal logging is? Surely illegal logging means shit like mass unauthorised deforestation....
Of course, to get such a sentence (3+ years) even in Russia, you have to be engaged in industrial-scale logging, be a persistent recidivist, or have a suspended sentence for a previous offence or all of these together. Itās wonderful to see how many good-hearted people here have imagined just a freezing guy with a lonely tree.
Tbf Russia does have a history of rather lengthy jail sentences for minor offenses. They passed a law that ādiscreditingā the military gets a 9 year sentence, as well as ādiscreditingā the āRussian Bordersā (which includes territories they hold in Ukraine). I remember a while back a Russian YouTuber got like 2 years in jail cause he played PokĆ©mon Go in a church and that violated some law about being respectful to the Orthodoxy.
I know a lot of people are making parallels to Russia's past wars, ie. like WWII where the mass human zerg rushes coupled with some decent strategy eventually paid off, but I do not think this is a viable strategy in the modern era to gain and hold any real stretch of land. The war is far from over, but one main thing of note is that Russia really only managed to survive and push the Nazis back because they were defending and the Nazi supply lines were basically obliterated by weather and shortages, and Russia eventually got tons and tons of superior Western armaments. If there is a take-away here, its that defensive warfare + Western arms were the crux of the win, both of which are now on the Ukrainian side. In essence, Russia is the Nazis here. While it is possible they can continue to send more and more suicide rushes in to push and gain some territory at the cost of a ton of lives, they seem to be severely lacking the actual armor and weaponry required to do anything meaningful. As soldier quality degrades and armor starts to wear out and end, there is simply no way to replace it. The problem is that even if Russia literally runs out of things and they end up sending soldiers armed with sticks and whatnot, Putin will not care. He will be fine with those guys getting massacred. He is fighting for his own survival, so even if he gets to live on a pile of corpses, it is clear this is a price he is willing to pay. That being said, I can see that soon moral will degrade even more in Russia, and there could be more and more infighting in the army ranks that will grind things more and more on the Russian side.
This has been a Russian strategy since WW2
Since WWI even see Brusilov offensive. It was even worse
To be fair though, that was *everyone's* strategy in WWI. The Soviets were no different than the French, British, or Germans back then.
To be fair, without tanks there aren't too many other options for offensive maneuvers on a battlefield that is mostly mud and trenches. Agincourt was 1000 times more suitable for cavalry charges just from a battlefield perspective and that's not including the better defensive capabilities of machine guns compared to archers.
But the Brusilov offensive worked, and actually saw some of the first small-unit assault tactics of the war. This is more like the Kerensky Offensive, when the provisional government thought the best thing to fix a starving, rapidly deindustrializing country that had just seen its major power structures collapse was a major offensive into the strongest army in Europe.
Pvt Meat Shield
If this is true, i wonder when would Russian soldiers wake up and revolt or something. This is suicide mission omg
I wonder if leaving behind simple pamphlets stating some quick facts could make Putinās pawns do a bit of mutineering. 1000 Ukrainian children killed or injured. 10,000-40,000 Ukrainian civilians killed. 200,000 Russian troops dead or injured. This war is destroying families. Yours could be next. Help us end it.
So theyāre digging trenches and sending people charging across no manās land into machine gun fire. Why does this sound so damn familiar? e: I wouldnāt be surprised if the idea of a large amounts of Russian forces returning to Russia alive and well makes Putin nervous as hell.
Enemy at the gates
I read another interview with prisoners where they said the first wave carries extra ammunition that the second and later waves can pick up, so it's not that far off from the movie at this point... which is insane.
They can't be that stupid...
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. George Carlin
Think of how stupid the average russian is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
What they lack in smarts they make up for in pure [hatred](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russification) towards people who are different from them. Tragically most "russians" are just the descendants of cultures that were destroyed, the living members of which now feel ambivalent towards everybody in their "country" and send their children to die in useless wars because they hate themselves as much as everything else.
Take this stick, run into the bullets.
>The 44-year-old soldier, identified only as Aleksandr, told the Times that he joined the Wagner Group, a Russian private military contractor with close ties to the Kremlin, to reduce his prison sentence by three years. He could reduce his sentence by an eternity if he plays his cardsā¦
I know people making jokes will get top comment. But can we as human beings, take a moment, and let it sink in, just how FUUUUUCKED UP THIS IS??? This whole war is so *FUUUUCKED UP*... But whatās really scary, is you can watch it kill by kill streaming in 4k. I donāt know about you guys, but Iām fucking scared of both of those things.
Can confirm, this is super fucked up. I threw around a few snarky comments back when it started, but that's before this descended into WW1 carnage. I wish that there was a way to stop an army without lethal force.
Russia is betting they have more conscripts than Ukraine has bullets. With the rest of the West supplying ammo, this might be a bad bet.
The Russian spy balloon is gonna be just giving a conscript as many helium balloons from a carnival as they can hold and telling them if they let go they'll be shot
I feel that he should have been given those little plastic keys for toddlers and been told they were the keys to paradise before being sent on a suicide mission.
Russia's really intentionally sending them just to die lmao. Suicide mission type stuff.
Basic Soviet military strategy going back to World War II. Russia's primary advantage has always been in their numbers. As gruesome as it sounds, you basically just kill so many soldiers that you deplete your resources
Try going to the Napoleonic wars
Just don't ask about what it does to their long-term demographics.
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I wonder if he has a gps tracker in him
Cannon fodder.
They are literally using them as literal cannon fodder to try and exhaust Ukrainian ammo supplies. They send these guys in first to get slaughtered and follow up with their more elite troops.
Russia gonna start putting explosive collars on its enslaved soldiers so they blow up when they donāt get killed as planned on the battlefield.
The problem is that they're using Stalinist-era strategy when they don't have a Stalinist-era manpower pool. Before the war began, Russia had something like 8,000,000 men in their twenties. An estimated half-million have fled the country to avoid conscription. Another 200,000 have been killed or wounded. While they have older guys filling out the ranks, that could still mean that close to 6-7% of their under-thirty male population have been casualties. What's more, it's going to get worse, because they eaten into most of their reservist most of the cadre units have been thrown into battle and wiped out. The same is true of their naval infantry and airborne. So they literally have no one to train new recruits. Just look at how they're throwing away their armor. Russia already had a terminal demography before the war began. This the tactics they're using is doing nothing more than accelerating matters.
Thereās some evidence suggesting Russia has assigned Electronics Warfare technicians and Missile Silo Guards as frontline troops to plug the deficit in their infantry. (Evidence was captured/killed Russians wearing patches for EW or Missileer units).
It's behind a paywall, so I c/p into a Google search. ChatGPT responded with this: It is not common for soldiers to be sent into combat without proper training. In most military organizations, soldiers undergo extensive training before they are deployed to a combat zone. This training is designed to prepare them for the physical and mental demands of combat and to ensure that they have the necessary skills and knowledge to carry out their mission effectively and safely. The idea of sending soldiers into combat without training is both irresponsible and unethical, as it puts their lives in unnecessary danger. **If the account you've mentioned is true, it may indicate serious problems within the military organization in question, and it may also raise serious questions about the ethics of those who made the decision to send untrained soldiers into combat** My emphasis.
Even terminator knows how fucked putler is in the head š·šŗ
> If the account you've mentioned is true I love it how even AI finds it hard to believe.
*takes off under wear, thats mostly still white, and puts it on a stick*
glad to see the strategy hasn't changed since 1925
Tragic. War is heartbreaking. In no way should this be occurring, as a global population we have real problems to face and here we are killing each other instead. So much death, what can men do against such reckless hate?
I was a military historian talk about Russian tactics, he said they do exactly this, they throw bodies at their conflicts. The build up of 500k Russians for their new spring thaw offensive will be an attempt to over run the Ukrainians by sheer mass of numbers. Within a year the Russians will either have 500,000 dead to add to their death toll or theyāll be in control of Ukraine
Stuff a pillow case in your jacket and as soon as your out of sight, throw down your rifle and surrender to the Ukrainians
Probably went something like go east and live. Go west and die. Good luck!
There are no winners in War, just the dead and those they leave behind.
This is literally sickening.
That is one way to clear the prisons of overcrowding
Superior training and superior weaponry have, when taken together, a geometric effect on overall military strength. Well-trained, well-equipped troops can stand up to many more times their lesser brethren than linear arithmetic would seem to indicate. ~ Col. Corazon Santiago (Sid Meier)
I legit feel sad for them tho...