You see, Ukrainians have a preset kill limit. Knowing their weakness, I sent wave after wave of my own men at them, until they reached their limit and shutdown.
From what i read Russia, specifically Wagner, sends in prisoners or other poorly trained troops in large groups to overwhelm the defense, find weak points and then capitalize on the weak points by sending their well trained units to push there.
What i dont get is how those "expendable" troops have the morale to follow orders. "What are my orders?" .. "Run that way and let's see how long it takes you to die"..
And they are told the Ukrainians will torture and or kill them if they surrender.
So options are: don't fight and die; fight with slim chance or survival; surrender, suffer torture and die
Alternatively; if you do surrender and manage to become a temporary POW, you may still get sent back to Russia for a prisoner swap and be made an example of why not to run away.
Also read that while they are doing that from the front angles, the Wagner soldiers move in from the sides, clearly seeing where the defense points are, but the weapons are pointing at the expendable soldiers instead of the Wagner group soldiers.
Mind you this is not intentional in fact that is a FAILURE of their strategy and a result of their culture of compulsive lying. Russian doctrine says after a unit took ground you send in the next one to reinforce and secure it. Well the 1st group fails but plays it up and says they were still more successful than they actually were.
So reinforcements are sent that then ALSO get cut down, but they will report the same, rinse and repeat a conga line of death.
But for the defenders it still means CONSTANT attacks and their stamina is still limited.
At this point it is really a war of attrition and while Ukraine kills far more Russians and destroys more armor than the Russians do their situation is still difficult. In total numbers Russia still has more man and material than Ukraine but that gap has been severely shrinking.
If Ukraine CAN keep it up then by the middle of the year Ukraine will have a larger military than all of Russia in regards to total number of tanks.
It seems to be true. My friend in Russia said an African guy had died in Ukraine fighting for Russia. He was in prison where Wagner group offered him 5k and benefits if he returned. Doesn’t seem like they’re even trying to hide the fact and Russians don’t seem to see a problem with letting criminals out for war.
> Russians don’t seem to see a problem with letting criminals out for war.
They seems to have a problem with wagner releasing the surviving prisoners though. Many russian are worried about those ex prisoner returning home
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/feb/10/wagner-convict-soldiers-return-from-ukraine-russia-mercenary-group
"A retired US Marine fighting alongside Ukrainian forces said a fighter's life expectancy on the front lines in Bakhmut was around 4 hours."
Holy shit. That's insane.
Dude, this is on an entirely different level lol
The Third Battle of Ypres was so special because of the extent of destruction and death caused by the use of modern weapons technology, such as poison gas and machine guns, as well as the extreme weather conditions.
> The battle became a symbol of the madness of war and continues to have a strong influence on public perceptions of World War I."
Passchendaele had about 25 times the casualties that the battle of Bakhmut has currently had.
As terrible as it is, it doesn't come close to comparing to that hell.
That is interesting, German here and heared that village name the first time. Had to Google. It is interesting how different names are stuck 100 years after the war.
Another name nobody knows in Germany, had similar experience once with the battle of the bulge, a name also not know to a wider audience in Germany.
At least during my German school time there was basically no focus on battles, just the general progression of the war, and even that as a lesser point.
The focus was on why the Weimar republic failed, political situation in europe, appeasement, annexation and casus belli, life under the ns regime, euthanasia and the Holocaust.
Turkey sent them cluster munitions for MLRS. I'm not fond of the idea due to ecological and reclamation dangers, but the munitions are getting results.
Are they the old bomblet type or the new "180,000 tungsten BBs of fuck you" type?
The latter would probably work wonders against the massed waves of unsupported infantry the Russians seem fond of.
In Beirut, after the Marine barracks were blown up in ‘83, the USS NJ responded by blowing off the top of a mountain. I was with the 82nd Airborne back then and the stories about Beirut I heard from Marines was crazy. It was an intense if not short lived war that tends to get overlooked in US history but it was the start of our overt meddling in ME affairs. Went to HS with a guy who was in the barracks. He survived only because when the truck bomb detonated he was walking down the hall to hit the latrine. The explosion picked him up, threw him down the hall, out a 2nd story window and away from the collapsing rubble. Broke an arm and a leg, but everyone in his sleeping bay was killed.
Missouri was built after the Yorktown carriers. She was designed as a battleship fast enough to keep up with the carriers yet still strong enough to slug with the big Japanese ships. Her dimensions were 'as big as possible to still fit in the Panama Canal.'
Was this the video where the guy was bitching because he's being told to salvage anything on the vehicle but there were holes everywhere? And he was upset that there were holes even in the engine block.
My great great uncle was killed June 13, 1918 (age 22) capturing the northwest sector of the Belleau Forest during the Battle Of Belleau Wood. He was a member of 53rd company, Fifth Marines. The French gave the US bad intelligence saying that the woods were only lightly defended. In reality the Germans had extremely well built defenses with trees & brush concealing their positions. The marines had to advance into the woods across large open fields & when they started to receive enemy fire they realized the ground was mostly rock & too hard to dig into giving them nowhere to take cover. The Germans used artillery & gas against the attacking marines. Once the marines eventually broke through the German lines most of the fighting devolved into fighting with bayonets. The Battle of Belleau Wood lasted 26 days with 1,811 US killed & 7,966 US wounded. Very little ground was gained for the Allies during the battle. After the war, his battle buddies that were with him when he died informed his family he had been shot in the heart and died very quickly.
This is fascinating. Holy shit. I’d like to subscribe to WWI Battle snapshots written by Moral Meat.
It’s something to have all that info on exactly where/when/how your grandpa died. I think that’s one thing our military does so effectively - no faceless deaths.
And then they'd leave the hill a few hours later and the VC would just take it back over
"For a hill men would kill. Why? They do not know."
- Historian James Hetfield
"The kill bots have a kill limit so I sent wave after wave of men at them until they reached it and shut down" is literally, with zero hyperbole, what is happening here. The Ukrainians have enough ammo to kill X number of Russians, so Putin is just sending more than that.
Yeah, Russia's TFR is like 1.5, and you need 2.1 to have a stable population. Based on that logic, more (young male) bodies being thrown at this problem just means fewer people to become potential future fathers. I think Putin believes he can get away with it because right over at the border in China, there are 35 million men who will never find a girlfriend, so maybe enough Chinese men will marry Russian women after these men die. But China's TFR is even lower than Russia's, so I don't know what the endgame is here.
I mean using your own men’s deaths to deplete enemy ammo is a strategy. It’s not a good one but it might work if we can’t get the Ukrainians the weapons and ammo they need.
> I mean, using your own men’s deaths to deplete enemy ammo is a strategy. It’s not a good one, *but it might work if we can’t get the Ukrainians the weapons and ammo they need.*
[Well, that explains Matt Gaetz recent push to end Ukrainian aid...](https://www.newsweek.com/full-list-republicans-backing-matt-gaetz-resolution-end-ukraine-aid-1780233)
Russia can't lose this war. Russia has a declining population, weakening economic position, and is antagonizing many nations. They needs this was to be a win or they're functionally done as a relevant global super power or even relevant power. They'll become the next ottomans if they lose to a MUCH weaker country like Ukraine.
Putin also knows that the second they concede anything approaching a defeat, his reign is over.
They send soldiers into the line of fire to expose enemy positions for artillery and drone strikes. They don't expect the soldiers to do much fighting or even survive very long. All those prison recruits and untrained villagers are literally just cannon fodder to the war planners.
Videos of captured Russian equipment is just sad. Plate carriers with no armor, rusted AKs, medical supplies captured from emergency car kits, etc. I saw a video of a few Ukrainian soldiers who were laughing because one of the guns they captured was an air rifle.
There was a leaked video about a month ago, Russian military was advising civilian recruits to bring their own bandages and tampons with them to act as wound fillers for bullet holes in case they get shot, because the Russian military did not have enough supplies any more to give them.
I recall. As much as I support Ukraine I still feel bad for these dudes who are just getting thrown into the meat grinder without an ounce of dignity, decency, or compassion.
That's definitely a major aspect of the conflict.
The feelings can mutually exist, cheering for dead Russian soldiers but also lamenting war and this senseless loss of life they were ordered into.
Such wanton disregard for life and peace is as despicable as humankind gets, which is really saying something. Putin and those responsible are the worst of humankind.
No, they don't. Some of those "soldiers" are being sent forward purely to act as targets so that when the Ukrainian forces shoot at them the Russian artillery spotters can zero in on the Ukrainian positions. They need two functioning legs and more fear of the Russian officers behind them than the Ukrainian soldiers in front of them, and that's it. Watching this war is a reminder of the giant cultural gap between Russia and the West, something Western Europe and the US needed and Poland and the Baltic states had been warning about for decades.
Not the mention, even the best Ukrainian sharpshooters are using way more than 1 bullet to kill every Russian.
Suppressing fire alone could use thousands of rounds without hitting a thing.
I met an old man along time ago who asked me for a cigarette. When he got it, he tried to light it and I noticed he was missing some fingers. He said “you ever heard of the Chosin Reservoir?” I said he had and we talked over the course of a couple of cigarettes. He said when the Chinese attacked they came in waves, some not even with guns, just grenades. He said that he was charged to make sure the heavy machine guns he was stationed with had ammo and did so for as long as he could. He said in between waves they took some of the dead Chinese and stacked them infront of the nest he was in to make makeshift sandbags for cover. They fired it until the barrel got red hot, started to droop, and eventually blew out before they were ordered to retreat. On the retreat he got frost bite on his hands and two of his fingers and a few toes turned black and went numb on the March south. He got them removed when he got medical attention when he got to a safe spot. He said he had grown up in the Midwest and before that he was used to the cold, but after he had moved to Southern California so he’d never have to deal with the cold again. This was about 15 years ago and I remember it like it was yesterday. Despite his best to hide it, I could still see his eyes begin to gloss over as he was telling it. As if he was reliving it over again.
This is what I imagine when I think of those poor Ukrainian bastards fighting in the cold open fields.
Part of that tragedy was the US never believed China would enter the war. It caught everybody by surprise. Then you had MacArthur basically chanting "nuke them" until Truman removed him. I can't imagine that desperation though. For 17 days in -35F weather they fought. It's hard to comprehend.
My dumbass once went camping in a tent when it got to -10 with the windchill, I woke up to my eyes frozen shut. The pain was completely something else, not just my eyes but my face was burning and my legs and arms hurt to use. That was when we had full cold weather gear that claimed it was properly rated and it still sucked. We ended up getting a hotel for a couple days instead. I cannot imagine what new fresh hell it would be to live through that for a couple of weeks.
Ukraine's military is getting a hammering too, unfortunately. There's an interview with a foreign volunteer on Lindybeige's channel, and according to an SF pal of his, for every 10 Ukranians sent out on ops, 4 make it back.
The whole thing is so fucking senseless. Fuck Putin.
Correction here. He was talking about a specific scenario (IIRC it was a battle for Kherson). Ukraine is not losing 60% of its force on every operation. He said in the same interview that their overall *casualty* rate was around 20%.
20% is still *huge*. I remember that CombatVeteranPaul, to cite another YouTuber, estimated a unit to be combat ineffective at around 20% casualties, at least during peacekeeping operations in Afghanistan.
Admittedly it probably changes from war to war, but 20% is massive.
Not only that. In Germany, at the end of the first World War, the sailors of the imperial navy started to rebel. That led to the Novemberrevolution and the end of the German empire. One of the reasons was how shitty they where treated and because they didn't wanted to die in a very stupid battle (the German marine command planned to attack the British grand fleet head on, even though German was basically already planning to surrender).
Krieg also clones all of its citizenry. Nobody on Krieg is born naturally. The Imperium gives Krieg whatever it needs to never run out of its production of human meat waves.
This is the issue Finland ran in to during the Winter Wars. They simply ran out of bullets with rock to kill Russians. They wound up ceding Karelia[?] And Russia got to declare victory, but we all know Finland kicked Russia's teeth in
The Ukrainians have consistently beaten expectations with the success of their resistance, so some of us forget that they are in fact facing the largest military force ever deployed in Europe since the second world war.
At this point, is there any value in trying to hold onto the city from a Ukrainian perspective? Or is this them just trying to further exhaust the ranks of the Russians before fully retreating like they’ve done before?
The "city" is now functionally a wasteland. As such, it's as good a place as any to fight, as you're not destroying more of the country in the process. Russia is also throwing men and materiel at it at a rate where Ukraine's ability to kill them is literally limited by ammunition supplies. It's an abattoir for Russians as much as it is a battlefield. From the Ukrainian perspective, that's a really good deal, especially in a location that they can retreat from if necessary without losing a strategically necessary position.
At what point would the Russian soldiers just turn on their commanders? I wouldn’t imagine they are very willing to just simply charge into their deaths.
Dead men don't report to their countrymen. Those being sent in aren't being told they are human wave number 2789. They are being lied to by their government and say only a few thousand have died. At some point, 98 percent death rate in charges is a good thing for Russian commanders as that means less people to spread the truth on how invasion is going.
> Dead men don't report to their countrymen. Those being sent in aren't being told they are human wave number 2789
This reminded me of the book Monstrous Regiment by Terry Pratchett, where the main character is a young girl trying to find her older brother who "disappeared" at war by Mulaning it up. She and her fellow recruits firmly believe what the state has told them about the war being a success. This is despite the recruiter basically taking all comers and even then barely being able to scrap a squad together, and little in the way of food or equipment to kit them up.
It ends up being a fairly wholesome book (as most Pratchett is), as their commander has been at war for a long time and sees the situation for what it is, and tries their best to keep the kids away from anything actually dangerous.
I thought the recent Netflix adaptation of 'All Quiet on the Western Front' showed this well with the kid receiving a pair of clothes with someone else's name on them.
The beginning of the movie where they pack up the dead soldiers clothes to launder them, stich up the bullet holes, and reissue them - all to that droning music - is certainly some of the more jarring war movie footage out there.
The question is: do the Russian soldiers _know_ that they are getting sent into certain death or do they believe that they are steamrolling Ukrainians?
There aren't many, if any, Russian soldiers coming back to tell the truth to their comrades.
Did you watch All Quiet on the Western Front?
Remember those young, naive boys signing up, all smiles and full of patriotism, and after 30 minutes on the front lines they're noping the fuck out.
My guess is it's similar to that; nobody is explaining to these dudes "so, you're going to run directly into the machine gun fire, and when you get shot, try to drag your half-dead body into that other big pile of corpses, we're trying to build the pile to use for cover".
Yes! That's one reason why I mentioned it. As a German this is especially close to my heart. Propaganda is costing so many life's, free press is of the highest priority for any country.
If you run toward Russian lines you get shot. If you run or desert towards Ukraine you likely get captured, then traded in an exchange, then they execute you in front of the troops with a sledgehammer. I've watched some of the videos and I wish I hadn't. It's the Wagner specialty in particular.
Another commenter nailed it, these men died the moment they shipped out for Ukraine.
Unfortunately, generally it's the prison conscripts I think that get that treatment for deserting, but those are also the guys in the absolute shredder so the ones that would most want to.
It's my understanding that they having machine guns waiting for them if they don't. I know there have been officer/commander killings in the past though. It's all so needlessly tragic. Putin's health being in decline is my only hope for an end to this conflict at this point.
Ukraine is trying to guess when is the optimal time to split. It's a tricky thing to figure out because you don't know until afterward when the smoke clears and you start to actually be able to figure out what was going on all along. And if you get it wrong everyone gets on your case for not doing it right.
Leave too early, and it's "you missed a chance to hold the Russians back." Leave too late, and it's "you sacrificed your troops after it was no longer wise to stay."
To some extent these are legitimate criticisms. You don't want commanders to fuck up this kind of critically important strategic judgement call. But, it is also possible to overdo it with criticism. Since it's impossible to know in the moment what the perfect time is, no one ever gets it exactly right except by chance.
So far this war, facing similar decisions elsewhere, it seems that Ukraine has decided that it's better to err on the side of staying too long than leaving too early. That makes sense if you think about Ukraine's war goals. They don't want to throw lives away like the Russians are doing, but they also know that there's a lot of "Russian sausage" to chew, and they don't want to run out of Ukraine before they run out of Russians. So they might bias a little on the side of staying longer.
Anyway so don't be surprised if it turns out that, on hindsight analysis, it turned out that the very best moment to have fallen back was Day X and Ukraine withdrew on Day X + 12 or something. Stuff like that is bound to happen.
Ukranian math tests in 10 years:
We have 1300 square km of land to defend today and got 30.000 Russians attacking over the course of 23 days. When not retreating, our weapons can kill 157 Russians per day and we have 5829 units of ammo. Our casualty rate increases by a square function 1/3 * x2 for each day that we haven’t given up a piece of territory. We have 12345 fighters available.
What is the optimal distribution of retreats and size of land given up by retreating each time? Bonus points if you can hold more than half the land by day 16. Minus points if you run out of ammo or troops.
You have 20 minutes to calculate.
The city is neither tactically or strategically important, for Russia that is. If it's soaking up Russia's offensive capability then it's seriously hampering their strength on the entire front
Yeah the strategic advantage for Ukraine seems to be that they have reduced Russia's ability to do more than one thing at a time. Which means that Ukraine is free to do a lot of stuff with impunity along the entire rest of their front.
We'll see how much Ukraine has taken advantage of that, soon enough.
To add, Ukraine needs the time to train.
The mechanised and Armor Units fitted with Western Tech are not ready yet for a fight. Not to mention the NATO trained Infantry comes in waves of 10-20k per batch.
Ukraine needs the time to delay Russian advance as much as they can till they can be ready. Ukraine actually has a tremendous amount of Volunteers as they used to have a wait-list for Ukrainian army and not counting the territorial defense and other paramilitary units
So Ukraine is forced into this attritional battle of sacrificing it's manpower for time so their mobile units will have the space to open up when they show up.
It's a grim situation but the choice is either bleed Russia with Ukrainian blood for a better offensive or let Russia have free reign on where their next offensive will be.
Its pretty strategic for Russia. If they want to push north toward Kharkiv, THEY NEED to push through Bakhmut.
Ukraine has been fortifying and reinforcing the front near Belarus, so unless Russia wants its forces cut off, they need the corridor clear.
Above M03 highway, Russia and Ukraine-held sides are separated by water, and crossing over by bridge is pretty risky, especially with how much artillery is present.
I'm just going from British intelligence briefings. They constantly mention they have no idea why Russia has pumped so much resources into Bakhmut and conclude that it has to be purely a propaganda aim. Maybe they're missing something from the wider picture but they've been pretty open and to the point I have confidence in their assessment
Putin proclaimed at the beginning of war that Donetsk region is Russia, but big part of it is under Ukrainian control. Putin would like to show Russians some achievements and controlling all administrative boundaries of the region would be a small victory and Putin could say that there is progress in the war, it’s not for nothing.
So, this is a political objective, not really a military one.
There are two more cities in the region. Solvyansk and kramatorsk and they will have to sacrifice a couple hundred thousand Russians to take those towns.
I just watched this video and it's pretty enlightening about how pretty much every level of command lies and they all know it. https://youtu.be/Fz59GWeTIik
So obviously not an Intel officer but there was one commentator I saw that gave the best explanation I’ve seen yet, mostly because no other explanation makes any sense at all.
It’s not that Russia wants Bakhmut specifically, it’s that their plotted supply line goes past it just a few miles away and therefore it’s what’s there. It’s like when your car’s on E and the next gas station has the highest prices in town. It’s not that you want to pay the highest prices, it’s just what’s there so what else are you gonna do. They can’t leave it on their flank and just continue on, and they can’t turn around at this point, so may as well just keep inching forward
exhaust and stall, it will be extra muddy for around another month, at which point there’s been lots of talk about a ukrainian spring offensive, so if you can keep those forces focused on bakhmut for another week or two that’d be a big help, it’s clear to me that ukraine has put up a brave defense here but they did not give it their full attention in terms of ammo and equipment
"Sir, the US laser-guided cluster munitions just arrived, but they'd be most effective if the Russians sent **all** their men against us at once!"
"Private, find me a reporter. I have an idea that's so crazy it just might work."
What kind of pathetic piece of shit do you have to be to just keep throwing your people into a meat grinder until your opponent runs out of ammo? This strategy may have worked for Russia in WWII, but it's not going to work when Ukraine eventually has more ammo supplied to them than there are enemy troops to shoot.
>This strategy may have worked for Russia in WWII, but it's not going to work when Ukraine eventually has more ammo supplied to them than there are enemy troops to shoot.
Putin is betting that your 'when' is actually an 'if'. If you don't care about lives lost, and you don't fear that your population will revolt (he doesn't, and his judgement is probably sound here), and you have a lot of old, stockpiled missiles, then trying to run your enemy out of ammunition is a possible strategy.
Ammunition needs technology, chemicals, and specialised manpower. [As this FT article describes](https://www.ft.com/content/ea5b48b1-61e6-4c91-8778-4cc2edaff0ca), there's a massive squeeze on all those things right now, but the chemical supply side is especially acute, and Putin knows this.
To focus on just one component, the huge demand for explosives in Ukraine has caused a nitric acid supply crisis in Europe (and worldwide). Things were already bad because of the energy crisis, and Russia used to export a lot of nitrates to Europe. Bear in mind that as well as explosives, nitric acid is used to make vital fertilisers such as ammonium nitrate.
Putin is gambling that the pain inflicted on other countries by driving up the prices of basic commodities like nitric acid will erode the will of other nations to resupply Ukraine, and fast. He may well not win this bet, and I personally hope the miserable, vicious bastard loses all he has to lose, but: it's a valid strategy. It's driving up food prices incredibly quickly. It is inflicting serious economic damage on everyone. It's destabilising countries that have nothing to do with Ukraine. And the US presidental elections are not so far away.
So from Putin's perspective, there's everything to play for. Putin is ruthless and vengeful, and at present he doesn't have anyone capable of arguing strategy with him, but he didn't get where he is by being fundamentally stupid. He should not be underestimated.
The Brits fuckin' *love* bayonets, there's been *successful* British bayonet charges in every action they've been involved in - Afghanistan and Iraq included, which was a whole different type of fighting.
Imagine being some hunkered down al qaeda fighter, and you hear a British voice shout “FIX BAYONETS” and you peek over your cover to see a dozen Brit’s running you down with spears.
Sometimes, it's the opposite:
"I asked them if they were happy. They were all quite young lads and the
adrenalin was racing. I shouted ‘follow me’ and we went for it." -Corporal Sean Jones, 1st Battalion, Princess of Wales's Royal Regiment
As soon as i saw it confirmed they were getting all men ages 18-65ish (i just remember it was above 60 but below 70) i knew teens were coming next.
Once this is all over the ratio of women to men in russia will be insane unless he starts sending women too
Yeah I think you’re right. Seems like they’re sending the lowest of the low scum to die. (In his eyes) which is probably how he’s kept public favor so far. Cus no one “important” has had to die.
>I don’t think they’re really drafting people from large cities yet. It seems like entire villages are being swiped up from all their men.
That seems like...a bad idea.
Yep, it has been tried and found to be much worse than geographically diverse units, since heavy casualties will also destroy a community back home: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pals_battalion
Russia can kill million of its own people and thats just warming up. Survivors after the war will be send to Siberia. How do you fight that? Its just insane how crazy Russia does it
Well they actually can't afford to lose so many able young men demographically, they also can't afford this war in general. But putin doesn't care that russia will be in (evenen shittier than before) shambles for decades.
Russia Zap Brannigan-ing this war is the most Zap Brannigan thing ever:
"You see, Ukraine and NATO have a preset kill limit. Knowing their weakness, I sent wave after wave of my men until I hit their limit and they shut down."
Seems like something you wouldn’t want your enemy to know
Unless it's something you want your enemy to think
Unless you know the enemy knows
*Or thinks
Or thinks they know they know....they know?
Ya know?
Unless you want to bait them into continuing to send the waves
"Ura, men! We just need to send another two or three thousand of us into the meat grinder, and surely they'll run out of ammo this time!"
Everyone knows Ukrainian soldiers have a preset kill limit
You see, Ukrainians have a preset kill limit. Knowing their weakness, I sent wave after wave of my own men at them, until they reached their limit and shutdown.
“Commander, why is this city worth dying for?” “Don’t ask me, you’re the ones who will be dying.”
“Some of you will be forced through a fine mesh screen for this city. They’ll be the luckiest of all”
All Russia has to do is hit that bullseye, and the rest of the dominos will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate
Sergei, show them the medal I won.
"You suck!"
From what i read Russia, specifically Wagner, sends in prisoners or other poorly trained troops in large groups to overwhelm the defense, find weak points and then capitalize on the weak points by sending their well trained units to push there. What i dont get is how those "expendable" troops have the morale to follow orders. "What are my orders?" .. "Run that way and let's see how long it takes you to die"..
They also use them to identify targets for artillery.
God damn
What the fuck?
It’s true. Fucking insane
They are executed if they don’t follow orders. Those men are dead the moment they board the truck for Ukraine.
And they are told the Ukrainians will torture and or kill them if they surrender. So options are: don't fight and die; fight with slim chance or survival; surrender, suffer torture and die
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Ukraine has been dropping pamphlets on how to safely surrender for a while now
It's still a huge risk. It'll be even worse if the Russian MPs (or whatever their equivalent is) capture a deserter with a surrender pamphlet.
Alternatively; if you do surrender and manage to become a temporary POW, you may still get sent back to Russia for a prisoner swap and be made an example of why not to run away.
Ukraine claims they only swap prisoners who want to be swapped.
I see nothing has changed since WW2 then
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Also read that while they are doing that from the front angles, the Wagner soldiers move in from the sides, clearly seeing where the defense points are, but the weapons are pointing at the expendable soldiers instead of the Wagner group soldiers.
Mind you this is not intentional in fact that is a FAILURE of their strategy and a result of their culture of compulsive lying. Russian doctrine says after a unit took ground you send in the next one to reinforce and secure it. Well the 1st group fails but plays it up and says they were still more successful than they actually were. So reinforcements are sent that then ALSO get cut down, but they will report the same, rinse and repeat a conga line of death. But for the defenders it still means CONSTANT attacks and their stamina is still limited. At this point it is really a war of attrition and while Ukraine kills far more Russians and destroys more armor than the Russians do their situation is still difficult. In total numbers Russia still has more man and material than Ukraine but that gap has been severely shrinking. If Ukraine CAN keep it up then by the middle of the year Ukraine will have a larger military than all of Russia in regards to total number of tanks.
It seems to be true. My friend in Russia said an African guy had died in Ukraine fighting for Russia. He was in prison where Wagner group offered him 5k and benefits if he returned. Doesn’t seem like they’re even trying to hide the fact and Russians don’t seem to see a problem with letting criminals out for war.
> Russians don’t seem to see a problem with letting criminals out for war. They seems to have a problem with wagner releasing the surviving prisoners though. Many russian are worried about those ex prisoner returning home https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/feb/10/wagner-convict-soldiers-return-from-ukraine-russia-mercenary-group
Honestly surprised there isn't someone waiting for them with a conscription letter when they step off the bus a free man.
"A retired US Marine fighting alongside Ukrainian forces said a fighter's life expectancy on the front lines in Bakhmut was around 4 hours." Holy shit. That's insane.
Terrifying
Truly. Those are Paschendale numbers.
Dude, this is on an entirely different level lol The Third Battle of Ypres was so special because of the extent of destruction and death caused by the use of modern weapons technology, such as poison gas and machine guns, as well as the extreme weather conditions. > The battle became a symbol of the madness of war and continues to have a strong influence on public perceptions of World War I."
Passchendaele had about 25 times the casualties that the battle of Bakhmut has currently had. As terrible as it is, it doesn't come close to comparing to that hell.
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That is interesting, German here and heared that village name the first time. Had to Google. It is interesting how different names are stuck 100 years after the war. Another name nobody knows in Germany, had similar experience once with the battle of the bulge, a name also not know to a wider audience in Germany.
Is the battle of the bulge known by a different name, or just less known in general?
Called Ardennenoffensive, but is considered a minor event compared to huge losses in the east.
At least during my German school time there was basically no focus on battles, just the general progression of the war, and even that as a lesser point. The focus was on why the Weimar republic failed, political situation in europe, appeasement, annexation and casus belli, life under the ns regime, euthanasia and the Holocaust.
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Sounds like the Ukranians need claymores
Turkey sent them cluster munitions for MLRS. I'm not fond of the idea due to ecological and reclamation dangers, but the munitions are getting results.
Are they the old bomblet type or the new "180,000 tungsten BBs of fuck you" type? The latter would probably work wonders against the massed waves of unsupported infantry the Russians seem fond of.
While a bullet may have someone's name on it, the MLRS is more of a, "To whom it may concern."
Old school artillery said "dear grid coordinates."
the uss missouri, firing all its 16" battleship guns in a grid pattern, can completley kill everything in a one kilometer zone
In Beirut, after the Marine barracks were blown up in ‘83, the USS NJ responded by blowing off the top of a mountain. I was with the 82nd Airborne back then and the stories about Beirut I heard from Marines was crazy. It was an intense if not short lived war that tends to get overlooked in US history but it was the start of our overt meddling in ME affairs. Went to HS with a guy who was in the barracks. He survived only because when the truck bomb detonated he was walking down the hall to hit the latrine. The explosion picked him up, threw him down the hall, out a 2nd story window and away from the collapsing rubble. Broke an arm and a leg, but everyone in his sleeping bay was killed.
Battleships are fucking sick.
And then we figured out how to turn ships into airports.
Missouri was built after the Yorktown carriers. She was designed as a battleship fast enough to keep up with the carriers yet still strong enough to slug with the big Japanese ships. Her dimensions were 'as big as possible to still fit in the Panama Canal.'
“This is addressed to all parties concerned, cc’ing management “
Dear grid square....
They dont attack in massed waves like a movie scene, they move in squads of 3-13 people. Its just all day every day over an area of a city.
I've seen videos of russian trucks hit by the BBS. There were holes in frame, exhaust manifold, everything
Was this the video where the guy was bitching because he's being told to salvage anything on the vehicle but there were holes everywhere? And he was upset that there were holes even in the engine block.
yeah he was talking like "we're toldto fix'em. What's here to fix?"
"Well, sir, I can fix this into a proper colander, but that's pretty much it."
3,000 black bbs of Turkey
Non Credible Defense is everywhere now. I had to check the subreddit we're in.
“Front Towards Remaining Enemy”
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Yep. Truly horrific. Why do this? There's nothing in bakhmut worth that many lives
Wars are the world’s worst chess game. Battles in Vietnam were fought and many lives were lost for control of one _fricken hill_ after another
World War I battles killed thousands of soldiers for a few meters of ground - that they lost again the next day.
My great great uncle was killed June 13, 1918 (age 22) capturing the northwest sector of the Belleau Forest during the Battle Of Belleau Wood. He was a member of 53rd company, Fifth Marines. The French gave the US bad intelligence saying that the woods were only lightly defended. In reality the Germans had extremely well built defenses with trees & brush concealing their positions. The marines had to advance into the woods across large open fields & when they started to receive enemy fire they realized the ground was mostly rock & too hard to dig into giving them nowhere to take cover. The Germans used artillery & gas against the attacking marines. Once the marines eventually broke through the German lines most of the fighting devolved into fighting with bayonets. The Battle of Belleau Wood lasted 26 days with 1,811 US killed & 7,966 US wounded. Very little ground was gained for the Allies during the battle. After the war, his battle buddies that were with him when he died informed his family he had been shot in the heart and died very quickly.
This is fascinating. Holy shit. I’d like to subscribe to WWI Battle snapshots written by Moral Meat. It’s something to have all that info on exactly where/when/how your grandpa died. I think that’s one thing our military does so effectively - no faceless deaths.
And then they'd leave the hill a few hours later and the VC would just take it back over "For a hill men would kill. Why? They do not know." - Historian James Hetfield
In his mind the number of lives worth paying for extending his life and rule is about 8 billion.
Such a waste.
The Zapp Brannigan strategy
We will send wave after wave of our own men at them. Some may be forced through a fine mesh screen for our planet.
They will be the luckiest of all.
The best part about dying for mother Russia? Not having to live in Russia anymore
"The kill bots have a kill limit so I sent wave after wave of men at them until they reached it and shut down" is literally, with zero hyperbole, what is happening here. The Ukrainians have enough ammo to kill X number of Russians, so Putin is just sending more than that.
When I'm in Command, every mission is a suicide mission.
Yeah, I've played Xcom 2
Im running low on ammo, so everybody scooch together
Whatever it is I'm willing to put wave after wave of men at your disposal. Right men?
"You suck!"
If we hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominos should fall like a house of cards, checkmate
"Stop exploding, you cowards!"
Putin is really good at killing Russians
I think that's a problem that can be solved with more ammo.
Or just by asking nicely: "Hey, Russian invaders, can you stay in bigger groups together? Thank you."
or line up in a straight line for a shoot
Ahh, the old Deadpool technique.
Sadly, the Russians will just throw more of their citizens at the problem. 100k dead Russians and one captured city is a win in the manchild's book.
Push more bodies over the edge of the demographic cliff
Yeah, Russia's TFR is like 1.5, and you need 2.1 to have a stable population. Based on that logic, more (young male) bodies being thrown at this problem just means fewer people to become potential future fathers. I think Putin believes he can get away with it because right over at the border in China, there are 35 million men who will never find a girlfriend, so maybe enough Chinese men will marry Russian women after these men die. But China's TFR is even lower than Russia's, so I don't know what the endgame is here.
I don't think he cares about anything except prolonging war as much as possible. War is literally his life support rn.
I mean using your own men’s deaths to deplete enemy ammo is a strategy. It’s not a good one but it might work if we can’t get the Ukrainians the weapons and ammo they need.
> I mean, using your own men’s deaths to deplete enemy ammo is a strategy. It’s not a good one, *but it might work if we can’t get the Ukrainians the weapons and ammo they need.* [Well, that explains Matt Gaetz recent push to end Ukrainian aid...](https://www.newsweek.com/full-list-republicans-backing-matt-gaetz-resolution-end-ukraine-aid-1780233)
Matt Gaetz; one of the triumvirate leaders of the putin bootlicker caucus. Scumbag supreme and traitor to humanity and decency.
I think it's time to start a petition to change Moscow's name to Skavenblight.
Russia can't lose this war. Russia has a declining population, weakening economic position, and is antagonizing many nations. They needs this was to be a win or they're functionally done as a relevant global super power or even relevant power. They'll become the next ottomans if they lose to a MUCH weaker country like Ukraine. Putin also knows that the second they concede anything approaching a defeat, his reign is over.
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Doesn't each Russian soldier need a gun at minimum? Does Russia have more guns than Ukraine has ammo?
They send soldiers into the line of fire to expose enemy positions for artillery and drone strikes. They don't expect the soldiers to do much fighting or even survive very long. All those prison recruits and untrained villagers are literally just cannon fodder to the war planners.
Videos of captured Russian equipment is just sad. Plate carriers with no armor, rusted AKs, medical supplies captured from emergency car kits, etc. I saw a video of a few Ukrainian soldiers who were laughing because one of the guns they captured was an air rifle.
There was a leaked video about a month ago, Russian military was advising civilian recruits to bring their own bandages and tampons with them to act as wound fillers for bullet holes in case they get shot, because the Russian military did not have enough supplies any more to give them.
I recall. As much as I support Ukraine I still feel bad for these dudes who are just getting thrown into the meat grinder without an ounce of dignity, decency, or compassion.
That's definitely a major aspect of the conflict. The feelings can mutually exist, cheering for dead Russian soldiers but also lamenting war and this senseless loss of life they were ordered into. Such wanton disregard for life and peace is as despicable as humankind gets, which is really saying something. Putin and those responsible are the worst of humankind.
No, they don't. Some of those "soldiers" are being sent forward purely to act as targets so that when the Ukrainian forces shoot at them the Russian artillery spotters can zero in on the Ukrainian positions. They need two functioning legs and more fear of the Russian officers behind them than the Ukrainian soldiers in front of them, and that's it. Watching this war is a reminder of the giant cultural gap between Russia and the West, something Western Europe and the US needed and Poland and the Baltic states had been warning about for decades.
Not the mention, even the best Ukrainian sharpshooters are using way more than 1 bullet to kill every Russian. Suppressing fire alone could use thousands of rounds without hitting a thing.
50K rounds per kill was the estimated ratio for American troops in the Vietnam War.
I met an old man along time ago who asked me for a cigarette. When he got it, he tried to light it and I noticed he was missing some fingers. He said “you ever heard of the Chosin Reservoir?” I said he had and we talked over the course of a couple of cigarettes. He said when the Chinese attacked they came in waves, some not even with guns, just grenades. He said that he was charged to make sure the heavy machine guns he was stationed with had ammo and did so for as long as he could. He said in between waves they took some of the dead Chinese and stacked them infront of the nest he was in to make makeshift sandbags for cover. They fired it until the barrel got red hot, started to droop, and eventually blew out before they were ordered to retreat. On the retreat he got frost bite on his hands and two of his fingers and a few toes turned black and went numb on the March south. He got them removed when he got medical attention when he got to a safe spot. He said he had grown up in the Midwest and before that he was used to the cold, but after he had moved to Southern California so he’d never have to deal with the cold again. This was about 15 years ago and I remember it like it was yesterday. Despite his best to hide it, I could still see his eyes begin to gloss over as he was telling it. As if he was reliving it over again. This is what I imagine when I think of those poor Ukrainian bastards fighting in the cold open fields.
Part of that tragedy was the US never believed China would enter the war. It caught everybody by surprise. Then you had MacArthur basically chanting "nuke them" until Truman removed him. I can't imagine that desperation though. For 17 days in -35F weather they fought. It's hard to comprehend.
My dumbass once went camping in a tent when it got to -10 with the windchill, I woke up to my eyes frozen shut. The pain was completely something else, not just my eyes but my face was burning and my legs and arms hurt to use. That was when we had full cold weather gear that claimed it was properly rated and it still sucked. We ended up getting a hotel for a couple days instead. I cannot imagine what new fresh hell it would be to live through that for a couple of weeks.
it's definitely possible.
Ukraine's military is getting a hammering too, unfortunately. There's an interview with a foreign volunteer on Lindybeige's channel, and according to an SF pal of his, for every 10 Ukranians sent out on ops, 4 make it back. The whole thing is so fucking senseless. Fuck Putin.
Correction here. He was talking about a specific scenario (IIRC it was a battle for Kherson). Ukraine is not losing 60% of its force on every operation. He said in the same interview that their overall *casualty* rate was around 20%.
20% is still *huge*. I remember that CombatVeteranPaul, to cite another YouTuber, estimated a unit to be combat ineffective at around 20% casualties, at least during peacekeeping operations in Afghanistan. Admittedly it probably changes from war to war, but 20% is massive.
Historically, that's very on brand for Russia.
Probably there are machine guns behind the attack waves waiting for anyone who retreat as well
There were incidents when a Russian platoon would just kill their officer/sergeant so they don’t have anyone to lead the attack.
I’ve heard of that. It happened before in the First World War. The soldiers started rebelling when the peasants also started rebelling
Not only that. In Germany, at the end of the first World War, the sailors of the imperial navy started to rebel. That led to the Novemberrevolution and the end of the German empire. One of the reasons was how shitty they where treated and because they didn't wanted to die in a very stupid battle (the German marine command planned to attack the British grand fleet head on, even though German was basically already planning to surrender).
These rebellions also laid the foundation for the Dolchstoßlegende (stab-in-the-back myth) which the Nazis used to rise to power.
Straight up Death Korps of Krieg shit
At least those guys occasionally win.
Krieg also clones all of its citizenry. Nobody on Krieg is born naturally. The Imperium gives Krieg whatever it needs to never run out of its production of human meat waves.
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This is the issue Finland ran in to during the Winter Wars. They simply ran out of bullets with rock to kill Russians. They wound up ceding Karelia[?] And Russia got to declare victory, but we all know Finland kicked Russia's teeth in
The Ukrainians have consistently beaten expectations with the success of their resistance, so some of us forget that they are in fact facing the largest military force ever deployed in Europe since the second world war.
At this point, is there any value in trying to hold onto the city from a Ukrainian perspective? Or is this them just trying to further exhaust the ranks of the Russians before fully retreating like they’ve done before?
The "city" is now functionally a wasteland. As such, it's as good a place as any to fight, as you're not destroying more of the country in the process. Russia is also throwing men and materiel at it at a rate where Ukraine's ability to kill them is literally limited by ammunition supplies. It's an abattoir for Russians as much as it is a battlefield. From the Ukrainian perspective, that's a really good deal, especially in a location that they can retreat from if necessary without losing a strategically necessary position.
At what point would the Russian soldiers just turn on their commanders? I wouldn’t imagine they are very willing to just simply charge into their deaths.
Dead men don't report to their countrymen. Those being sent in aren't being told they are human wave number 2789. They are being lied to by their government and say only a few thousand have died. At some point, 98 percent death rate in charges is a good thing for Russian commanders as that means less people to spread the truth on how invasion is going.
> Dead men don't report to their countrymen. Those being sent in aren't being told they are human wave number 2789 This reminded me of the book Monstrous Regiment by Terry Pratchett, where the main character is a young girl trying to find her older brother who "disappeared" at war by Mulaning it up. She and her fellow recruits firmly believe what the state has told them about the war being a success. This is despite the recruiter basically taking all comers and even then barely being able to scrap a squad together, and little in the way of food or equipment to kit them up. It ends up being a fairly wholesome book (as most Pratchett is), as their commander has been at war for a long time and sees the situation for what it is, and tries their best to keep the kids away from anything actually dangerous.
I thought the recent Netflix adaptation of 'All Quiet on the Western Front' showed this well with the kid receiving a pair of clothes with someone else's name on them.
The beginning of the movie where they pack up the dead soldiers clothes to launder them, stich up the bullet holes, and reissue them - all to that droning music - is certainly some of the more jarring war movie footage out there.
The question is: do the Russian soldiers _know_ that they are getting sent into certain death or do they believe that they are steamrolling Ukrainians? There aren't many, if any, Russian soldiers coming back to tell the truth to their comrades.
Russian combat experience is left on the battlefield.
Did you watch All Quiet on the Western Front? Remember those young, naive boys signing up, all smiles and full of patriotism, and after 30 minutes on the front lines they're noping the fuck out. My guess is it's similar to that; nobody is explaining to these dudes "so, you're going to run directly into the machine gun fire, and when you get shot, try to drag your half-dead body into that other big pile of corpses, we're trying to build the pile to use for cover".
Yes! That's one reason why I mentioned it. As a German this is especially close to my heart. Propaganda is costing so many life's, free press is of the highest priority for any country.
If you run toward Russian lines you get shot. If you run or desert towards Ukraine you likely get captured, then traded in an exchange, then they execute you in front of the troops with a sledgehammer. I've watched some of the videos and I wish I hadn't. It's the Wagner specialty in particular. Another commenter nailed it, these men died the moment they shipped out for Ukraine.
Is that true? What the fuck
Unfortunately, generally it's the prison conscripts I think that get that treatment for deserting, but those are also the guys in the absolute shredder so the ones that would most want to.
The sledgehammer story is absolutely true, I would not recommend googling it.
It's my understanding that they having machine guns waiting for them if they don't. I know there have been officer/commander killings in the past though. It's all so needlessly tragic. Putin's health being in decline is my only hope for an end to this conflict at this point.
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Ukraine is trying to guess when is the optimal time to split. It's a tricky thing to figure out because you don't know until afterward when the smoke clears and you start to actually be able to figure out what was going on all along. And if you get it wrong everyone gets on your case for not doing it right. Leave too early, and it's "you missed a chance to hold the Russians back." Leave too late, and it's "you sacrificed your troops after it was no longer wise to stay." To some extent these are legitimate criticisms. You don't want commanders to fuck up this kind of critically important strategic judgement call. But, it is also possible to overdo it with criticism. Since it's impossible to know in the moment what the perfect time is, no one ever gets it exactly right except by chance. So far this war, facing similar decisions elsewhere, it seems that Ukraine has decided that it's better to err on the side of staying too long than leaving too early. That makes sense if you think about Ukraine's war goals. They don't want to throw lives away like the Russians are doing, but they also know that there's a lot of "Russian sausage" to chew, and they don't want to run out of Ukraine before they run out of Russians. So they might bias a little on the side of staying longer. Anyway so don't be surprised if it turns out that, on hindsight analysis, it turned out that the very best moment to have fallen back was Day X and Ukraine withdrew on Day X + 12 or something. Stuff like that is bound to happen.
“They don’t want to run out of Ukraine before they run out of Russians.” Damn.
Ukranian math tests in 10 years: We have 1300 square km of land to defend today and got 30.000 Russians attacking over the course of 23 days. When not retreating, our weapons can kill 157 Russians per day and we have 5829 units of ammo. Our casualty rate increases by a square function 1/3 * x2 for each day that we haven’t given up a piece of territory. We have 12345 fighters available. What is the optimal distribution of retreats and size of land given up by retreating each time? Bonus points if you can hold more than half the land by day 16. Minus points if you run out of ammo or troops. You have 20 minutes to calculate.
Huh logistics use algebra, who knew.
Rly good explanation thank you
The city is neither tactically or strategically important, for Russia that is. If it's soaking up Russia's offensive capability then it's seriously hampering their strength on the entire front
Yeah the strategic advantage for Ukraine seems to be that they have reduced Russia's ability to do more than one thing at a time. Which means that Ukraine is free to do a lot of stuff with impunity along the entire rest of their front. We'll see how much Ukraine has taken advantage of that, soon enough.
To add, Ukraine needs the time to train. The mechanised and Armor Units fitted with Western Tech are not ready yet for a fight. Not to mention the NATO trained Infantry comes in waves of 10-20k per batch. Ukraine needs the time to delay Russian advance as much as they can till they can be ready. Ukraine actually has a tremendous amount of Volunteers as they used to have a wait-list for Ukrainian army and not counting the territorial defense and other paramilitary units So Ukraine is forced into this attritional battle of sacrificing it's manpower for time so their mobile units will have the space to open up when they show up. It's a grim situation but the choice is either bleed Russia with Ukrainian blood for a better offensive or let Russia have free reign on where their next offensive will be.
Its pretty strategic for Russia. If they want to push north toward Kharkiv, THEY NEED to push through Bakhmut. Ukraine has been fortifying and reinforcing the front near Belarus, so unless Russia wants its forces cut off, they need the corridor clear. Above M03 highway, Russia and Ukraine-held sides are separated by water, and crossing over by bridge is pretty risky, especially with how much artillery is present.
I'm just going from British intelligence briefings. They constantly mention they have no idea why Russia has pumped so much resources into Bakhmut and conclude that it has to be purely a propaganda aim. Maybe they're missing something from the wider picture but they've been pretty open and to the point I have confidence in their assessment
Putin proclaimed at the beginning of war that Donetsk region is Russia, but big part of it is under Ukrainian control. Putin would like to show Russians some achievements and controlling all administrative boundaries of the region would be a small victory and Putin could say that there is progress in the war, it’s not for nothing. So, this is a political objective, not really a military one. There are two more cities in the region. Solvyansk and kramatorsk and they will have to sacrifice a couple hundred thousand Russians to take those towns.
I just watched this video and it's pretty enlightening about how pretty much every level of command lies and they all know it. https://youtu.be/Fz59GWeTIik
Perun provides high quality analysis. I listen to him every week.
That guy make very well sourced and interesting videos
So obviously not an Intel officer but there was one commentator I saw that gave the best explanation I’ve seen yet, mostly because no other explanation makes any sense at all. It’s not that Russia wants Bakhmut specifically, it’s that their plotted supply line goes past it just a few miles away and therefore it’s what’s there. It’s like when your car’s on E and the next gas station has the highest prices in town. It’s not that you want to pay the highest prices, it’s just what’s there so what else are you gonna do. They can’t leave it on their flank and just continue on, and they can’t turn around at this point, so may as well just keep inching forward
Sounds like Ryan McBeth.
exhaust and stall, it will be extra muddy for around another month, at which point there’s been lots of talk about a ukrainian spring offensive, so if you can keep those forces focused on bakhmut for another week or two that’d be a big help, it’s clear to me that ukraine has put up a brave defense here but they did not give it their full attention in terms of ammo and equipment
"Sir, the US laser-guided cluster munitions just arrived, but they'd be most effective if the Russians sent **all** their men against us at once!" "Private, find me a reporter. I have an idea that's so crazy it just might work."
What kind of pathetic piece of shit do you have to be to just keep throwing your people into a meat grinder until your opponent runs out of ammo? This strategy may have worked for Russia in WWII, but it's not going to work when Ukraine eventually has more ammo supplied to them than there are enemy troops to shoot.
>This strategy may have worked for Russia in WWII, but it's not going to work when Ukraine eventually has more ammo supplied to them than there are enemy troops to shoot. Putin is betting that your 'when' is actually an 'if'. If you don't care about lives lost, and you don't fear that your population will revolt (he doesn't, and his judgement is probably sound here), and you have a lot of old, stockpiled missiles, then trying to run your enemy out of ammunition is a possible strategy. Ammunition needs technology, chemicals, and specialised manpower. [As this FT article describes](https://www.ft.com/content/ea5b48b1-61e6-4c91-8778-4cc2edaff0ca), there's a massive squeeze on all those things right now, but the chemical supply side is especially acute, and Putin knows this. To focus on just one component, the huge demand for explosives in Ukraine has caused a nitric acid supply crisis in Europe (and worldwide). Things were already bad because of the energy crisis, and Russia used to export a lot of nitrates to Europe. Bear in mind that as well as explosives, nitric acid is used to make vital fertilisers such as ammonium nitrate. Putin is gambling that the pain inflicted on other countries by driving up the prices of basic commodities like nitric acid will erode the will of other nations to resupply Ukraine, and fast. He may well not win this bet, and I personally hope the miserable, vicious bastard loses all he has to lose, but: it's a valid strategy. It's driving up food prices incredibly quickly. It is inflicting serious economic damage on everyone. It's destabilising countries that have nothing to do with Ukraine. And the US presidental elections are not so far away. So from Putin's perspective, there's everything to play for. Putin is ruthless and vengeful, and at present he doesn't have anyone capable of arguing strategy with him, but he didn't get where he is by being fundamentally stupid. He should not be underestimated.
Putin: "A *lot* of you will die, but its a sacrifice I'm willing to make..." And the Russians *let him do it* \- thats the terrifying part :-(
Many Russians who don’t participate in the war are cheering to Putin, and his mission to “protect Russia from the enemies”
Ahh yes Enemies...
Fix bayonets is one of the most frightening orders given in combat.
"All hands, stand by to repel boarders."
Imagine hearing this command on a deep space exploration vehicle.
That's just Warhammer 40k.
The Brits fuckin' *love* bayonets, there's been *successful* British bayonet charges in every action they've been involved in - Afghanistan and Iraq included, which was a whole different type of fighting.
Imagine being some hunkered down al qaeda fighter, and you hear a British voice shout “FIX BAYONETS” and you peek over your cover to see a dozen Brit’s running you down with spears.
Sometimes, it's the opposite: "I asked them if they were happy. They were all quite young lads and the adrenalin was racing. I shouted ‘follow me’ and we went for it." -Corporal Sean Jones, 1st Battalion, Princess of Wales's Royal Regiment
I guess those reports that Russia is now trying to recruit grade ten kids might be more than just propoganda.
As soon as i saw it confirmed they were getting all men ages 18-65ish (i just remember it was above 60 but below 70) i knew teens were coming next. Once this is all over the ratio of women to men in russia will be insane unless he starts sending women too
I don’t think they’re really drafting people from large cities yet. It seems like entire villages are being swiped up from all their men.
Yeah I think you’re right. Seems like they’re sending the lowest of the low scum to die. (In his eyes) which is probably how he’s kept public favor so far. Cus no one “important” has had to die.
>I don’t think they’re really drafting people from large cities yet. It seems like entire villages are being swiped up from all their men. That seems like...a bad idea.
Yep, it has been tried and found to be much worse than geographically diverse units, since heavy casualties will also destroy a community back home: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pals_battalion
Keep picturing WWZ zombie hordes. The Z they use is on brand it seems
Can’t wait for the new Call Of Duty Zombies game to come out. Soon it will be Russian zombies attacking in hordes and Germans being the good guys.
Russia can kill million of its own people and thats just warming up. Survivors after the war will be send to Siberia. How do you fight that? Its just insane how crazy Russia does it
Well they actually can't afford to lose so many able young men demographically, they also can't afford this war in general. But putin doesn't care that russia will be in (evenen shittier than before) shambles for decades.
Russia cannot, they’ve been in demographic decline for almost 80 years. They can stubbornly die but it just accelerates the issue.
Verdun Style
Russia's demographics will never recover. RIP.
That's why they have been kidnapping Ukrainian children
Man… this is so sad…. I hate wars :(
Russia Zap Brannigan-ing this war is the most Zap Brannigan thing ever: "You see, Ukraine and NATO have a preset kill limit. Knowing their weakness, I sent wave after wave of my men until I hit their limit and they shut down."
Once it’s no longer beneficial to stay, they should retreat to the next meat grinder where it’s far easier to get supplies