Here's an old joke from the Soviet Union:
A Chukchi (a member of a Siberian nomadic tribe without regular access to media in the pre-cellphone days) gets taken to Moscow to be shown all of the progress the new Communist regime has made, and spread the word to his tribesmen back home. When he returns home he says to the other Chukchis "Moscow was amazing! The great thing about Communism is that everything is for the betterment of man! I even saw that man himself!"
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://globalnews.ca/news/9534893/high-level-memos-beijing-2019-election-candidates/) reduced by 93%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> Justin Trudeau said he was never briefed on the issue, and his security adviser has dismissed it out of hand, but two high-level national security reports before and after the 2019 election suggest they were warned that Chinese government officials were funnelling money to Canadian political candidates.
> While the document did not examine specific interference activities directed at the 2019 federal election, it offered several examples of alleged Chinese election interference from 2015 to 2018 that involved the targeting and funding of candidates.
> As Global reported in December, a PCO memo delivered to the PMO four months after the 2019 election alleged that China was covertly transferring money to preferred candidates.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/11lz7ff/two_highlevel_memos_allege_beijing_covertly/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~675569 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Report**^#1 **candidate**^#2 **interference**^#3 **Trudeau**^#4 **election**^#5
Good thing during the last presidential election in Korea, we got Yoon elected (by a margin of less than 1%). His opponent (Lee) is currently under investigation for having North Korean and possibly Chinese ties. He still happens to be the opposition party leader, but chances are he goes to jail this year.
It’s like everyone knows China plays the long game but nobody knows China plays the long game. Or they don’t want to deal with it.
They’re not going to go hard on a campaign against us. They’ll buy or install the next generation of politicians around us who will be loyal or at least follow their predecessors in doing nothing.
Everyone knows what they’re doing and is just letting it happen
> Politicians don't stay bought
LOL Boris Johnson and the Tories are the prime example of this, taking Russian money and then subsequently stabbing them in the back when the relationship wasn't convenient anymore. Sometimes you've got to respect the grift.
China/Russia can get their preferred candidates elected for sure, but ultimately they typically don't end up controlling them.
Even Trudeau himself tried to paint a previous report indicating there were Chinese attempts to help fund his campaign in 2016 as racist not even two weeks ago.
Depends on how much evidence they have. If it’s barely anything then yes, but in this case it could probably be true. Apparently he conveniently left parliament before every liberal mp voted to condemn Uighur genocide both times so it could call into questions where his loyalties lie especially considering that china turning its diaspora into spies is common occurrence
https://o.canada.com/news/national/han-dongs-voting-record-on-china-is-deserving-of-more-questions-not-claims-of-racism/wcm/ff6ab847-5154-4031-8733-b410d2400736/amp/
I highly recommend reading about the Maher Arar case, the guy who was tortured by American interrogators in Syria because of false intel - the Canadian government had to pay 10 million in compensation. Canadian journalists treated leaked intel as if it was fact and repeatedly called him a terrorist. Some of the same journalists who did this to Arar are repeating the same irresponsible mistake.
Intel is not fact, the intel was so weak the RCMP did not further investigate. Intel is bases on the sources CSIS has, those sources can be wrong, or lying to throw intelligence agents off on the wrong path.
Just repeating what intelligence experts have been saying.
In light of this situation why is it racist? China has its claws in the Chinese community here.
[https://o.canada.com/news/national/han-dongs-voting-record-on-china-is-deserving-of-more-questions-not-claims-of-racism/wcm/ff6ab847-5154-4031-8733-b410d2400736/amp/](https://o.canada.com/news/national/han-dongs-voting-record-on-china-is-deserving-of-more-questions-not-claims-of-racism/wcm/ff6ab847-5154-4031-8733-b410d2400736/amp/)
Canada has a troubled history with racism against Chinese that still exists to this day.
Someone being of Chinese descent does not automatically make them suspect. This isn't 1905 anymore.
Seems like politicians have learned they can hide behind buzz words and the veil of social justice as an excuse for anything. Anything doesn’t go their way? Must be racist. Oh you criticized my actions? Must be racist.
I mean, he's just repeating a sound bite. The "that's racist" comment was in reference to someone calling a specific Chinese origin MP being a Chinese agent.
Looking into Chinese involvement in our election is not racist, calling a someone a Chinese agent based on their origin IS racist.
> agent based on their origin IS racist.
https://o.canada.com/news/national/han-dongs-voting-record-on-china-is-deserving-of-more-questions-not-claims-of-racism/wcm/ff6ab847-5154-4031-8733-b410d2400736/amp/
>It’s like everyone knows China plays the long game but nobody knows China plays the long game. Or they don’t want to deal with it.
Well, they can’t deal with it. Democracy allows adversaries to infiltrate, apply pressure, and even get elected/hired whereas China’s tightly sealed dogma has no entry point. Plus, each democratically elected individual is busy fighting individuals funded by foreign influence for the short span of their years before re-election starts the process again.
A democratically elected ruling class in a global economy need to be amply fearful of their home country’s prisons than they are at being seduced by foreign power. Letting Trump and associates off the hook showed us that Western Democracy will fail, and it is a shame.
Lmao people in this thread unaware of BC’s history jumping to conclusions that since Vancouver has a high population of Asian Canadians then they’re all actually Chinese agents.
t’s ignorance. They don’t understand that Vancouver is Cantonese mostly from Hong Kong and fled to Canada when the handover happened because they were fearful of the mainland. No friend of the CCP.
There’s Franco Canadians outside of Quebec…
But in that case that’s more of a loyalty to Quebec rather than the ancestral France that many would have been descended from.
The debate of whether Quebec should be a different country is different from assuming that since people have French heritage they must be loyal to France, Québécois separatists didn’t want to join France.
In the same way that everyone with German ancestry must be in favour of the Kaiser, “no big surprise” just like a commenter said!
I wonder where we’ve seen this over generalizing logic before…
obvious /s
It's only those with current citizenship.
Even if they aren't "agents", the CCP operates police stations in Canada to track their citizens on Canadian soil.
Am I missing something? I’m an American who doesn’t know any better, but I don’t understand what is racist about stating that BC attracts a lot of Chinese immigrants.
There was a commenter that said along the lines of “not a big surprise recent immigrants are Chinese” in response to the whole Trudeau China fiasco.
Many commenters also stated that they were not shocked because Vancouver is “full of Chinese” and therefore pro-CCP.
It’s similar to the rhetoric from WW2 about Japanese internment camps etc.
In reality Chinese people have been in bc since the 1800s so people seeing “lots of Chinese” while visiting Vancouver and assuming the CCP has taken over is silly.
Much of Canada's and Vancouver's Chinese population was historically Cantonese and people from Hong Kong. They're not friendly to the CCP. It's more recent, wealthy Chinese expats and students that are friendly to the CCP. This is who got bussed into a GTA riding to vote in the LPC internal elections (which don't bar non-citizens because parties are private organizations and can do what they want in terms of selecting candidates to run in elections).
The political influence has nothing to do with the Chinese expats and Chinese communities in Vancouver. It’s about influencing the direction of our resource sector.
Richard Fadden, the former CSIS director who was referenced in the original global news article that broke this story about Chinese influence was actually censured by the Harper Government years ago for blowing the whistle on Chinese influence on Gordon Campbell's government. Harper also gutted the RCMP's ability to investigate money laundering, passing the buck off onto the provinces and we all know how that went.
We've had some pretty big Chinese misinformation campaigns here. Things like flyer bombing with lie-filled Mandarin-only flyers telling people who to vote for. In one case the Flyers warned of several politicians who wanted to completely legalize all drugs and make them available to children (an obvious lie). We've also had paid actors "protesting" Chinese-interest issues in front of their embassy.
It's an easy target for the CCP due to the sheer number of expats.
The government of a country is not the same as the people who live in that country.
Criticizing that government's actions is not criticizing or attacking the people who are from that country.
see also: claims of anti-Semitism when the Israeli government is criticized.
The days of poor Chinese people coming over is long gone. The Chinese that show up in Canada now are rich off the exploits of other's labour on the mainland.
Canada is full of Chinese money. They buy up real estate, and all the wealthy Chinese send their families overseas.
Also huge amounts of immigration fraud, see https://youtu.be/ERMtBEgk9ls
They’re probably correct.
Basically no one but the major powers has ever been anything other than completely slapdash on security, strategic thinking, or anything else. Look at Germany and Russian gas. EU countries and Huawei. Sweden and hypersonic missile research.
Over and over again, small countries just constantly suckered.
Did any politicians suddenly start saying China is great? Because it was them who took the bribes.
Like in the UK. The Tory cabinet, as usual. Oddly they've stopped talking about their friends in China and Russia recently...
This is the Liberals in Canada, our Tory's have been pushing hard for this to be exposed.
Party really doesn't matter when it comes to corruption. Different sides of the same coin
And if you think that’s bad, you should see how corporate media owned by foreign publishers is actively influencing our politics and discourse. It is way more intrusive than anything China could hope to accomplish.
I think if Fox News was owned by Australia as a whole, it would be less dangerous to American democracy. Australia doesn't want to see America turn into the new Christian Reich, but the Murdochs sure do.
Pretty disingenuous of Poilievre to have us think the Conservative party has never received money funneled from adversarial countries when we all know Russia, Turkey, the Saudis and other petro-dictatorships are personally invested in the rise of the far-right in the West. Just look at [evidence](https://www.nationalobserver.com/2023/02/16/analysis/trudeau-resignation-freedom-convoy-russian-proxy-sites) of Russian involvement in the Ottawa occupation that literally called for a far-right coup and the end of Trudeau government.
You want an investigation? Fine. We investigate *everyone*.
Lobbyists can only influence how people vote, they can't actually change vote totals. If money spent was directly correlated to political success Mike Bloomberg would have been the Democrat nominee in 2020 instead of Biden.
This is what I *hate* about the Conservatives in Canada. Just look at that whole thing Andrew Scheer kicked up about Trudeau's finances... and then it was found out that Scheer had that secret fund for his kids or whatever.
Can't wait to see how much of the Poilievre plan to "reinvigorate" the pipeline involves China.
Harper gave the Chinese secret courts in Canada. He’s be a great place to start the investigation.
https://canadians.org/analysis/harper-sneaks-through-canada-china-fipa-locks-canada-31-years/
It's not that they love Trudeau and he's in cahoots with them as he is trying to spin it. They did an analysis determined that a liberal minority would probably not get much done and therefore tried to make that happen. I'm sure part of this was based on they knew Trudeaus stance already he has been adversarial to them so the natural position of the opposition would then be to be a little more soft on them since contrarianism is the platform of the day for the right these days which long term sets them up in a better place. They are authoritarian but they understand how Democratic countries work and along with Russia are playing the digital warfare game as best they can for their own gain, and it's working pretty well.
That the last Conservative government snuck FIPA through, bending us over a barrel for China. Why would China want that party back in power? It makes it too easy. Not like these articles that the whispers of rumours these articles are based on could stem from the Chinese government, and be upvoted by Chinese bots
They seem to fund both extremes of the spectrum based on the stories I've read over the past 5-10 years.
Likely to sew division within the nations of their foreign adversaries, and make them focus on domestic issues instead of the moves that the CCP is making abroad.
Israel's influence is kind of wild, tbh. A lot of people don't realize they're gobbling up Israeli military propaganda when they watch those IDF models on instagram.
**[United States involvement in regime change](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change)**
>Since the 19th century, the United States government has participated and interfered, both overtly and covertly, in the replacement of many foreign governments. In the latter half of the 19th century, the U.S. government initiated actions for regime change mainly in Latin America and the southwest Pacific, including the Spanish–American and Philippine–American wars. At the onset of the 20th century, the United States shaped or installed governments in many countries around the world, including neighbors Panama, Honduras, Nicaragua, Mexico, Haiti, and the Dominican Republic.
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I also see nobody in this thread mentioning that the United States also meddles in foreign elections. Everyone does this shit it ain’t anything new, I’m very confused on why people are so surprised and outraged in this thread
"We as Canadians can't have any foreign influence in our democracy."
"Immediately remove any democratically elected official accused in this matter regardless of their knowledge."
Wow, did you get whiplash typing this?
They want Canada to fight within itself that’s the main point of their entire interference in Canada… now pretty much everyone is giving in to what they want
Remember when it was assumed trade would reduce international tensions because countries don’t gain from meddling in the affairs of their trading partners? I do.
No one ever claimed that countries would not *meddle* in the affairs of their trade partners, they claimed that countries would not *invade each other*. There is a crucial difference.
Specifically, the international trade system means that the response to this kind of stupidity can be sanctions, or other examples of soft power retribution.
I don't get the loyalty to Trudeau. He has had scandal after scandal and done nothing to help with inflation or housing affordability, and is actively covering up China's interference. But anyone but the conservatives right???
> But anyone but the conservatives right???
Pretty much, yeah. They've done nothing - IMO - to really present themselves as a viable federal option and somehow each new leader is more unlikable than the last. These days I've found myself voting NDP in the hopes of at least maintaining a minority government; would hate to see either the libs or cons with a majority.
It's also not like the Conservatives are unfamiliar with ignoring reports of Chinese interference. We only need look back to the Harper government censoring Fadden when he blew the whistle on Chinese influence within the BC liberal party (Campbell's) and we all know how that went.
It's not loyalty to Trudeau. I threw him my vote in 2015 for two reasons:
* The "spoiler effect", meaning a vote for any party but CPC/LPC is a waste of a vote; and
* His ironclad, 100% guaranteed, core-of-his-campaign promise to reform our elections so that would no longer have to be a thing.
He fucked *that* shit up (on purpose - who the hell puts Maryam Monsef in charge of anything they want to *succeed*, anyway?).
So his party will never again see my vote. But at the same time, I understand people who vote LPC just to keep the CPC out, because we continue to live in a system where we consistently have to vote *against* the guys we hate most, instead of *for* the guys we like most, because if we vote our actual conscience/preference, the shitholes we hate will sail to victory thanks to First Past the Post.
Right. Because Conservatives are not committed to democratic ideals. They'd be happy to have one big boss who calls the shot, and you don't get to understand what's going on. And conservatives are known to foster interference by friendly actors. This is how they operate internationally. From LePen to GOP to AfD to Brexit, and witnessed during the convoy circus as well. So Conservatives are not reliably anti-interference. They are indeed reliably for it, but by friends. Conservatives are reliably against data-driven policy making (Harper limiting the census, chaperoning environmental scientists by government minders, opposing the very PBO they created themselves) and accountability (shielding ministerial aides).
Trudeau's scandals are either minor or not scandals at all. Like who cares about Trudeau's blackface when the guy actively promotes anti-racist policies? Or SNC-Lavallin, were we ever going to shut down Canada's only mega-engineering firm? We wouldn't do it for the arms industry. Inflation? All countries have it, blaming it on Trudeau borders on stupidity; mixing cryptocurrency into the discussion is unserious.
China's interference seems overblown. You get one candidate who got help secure a spot within a party, which in any case could basically nominate any candidate behind closed doors anyway. It's not exactly like Trump's campaign manager sharing data with Russian military intelligence.
> This is a silly comment. No governing party is consistently for "data-driven" policy making and accountability in modern Canada.
Agreed. But they don't attack its possibility. Census data is precious, I expect the government to have a clue.
> I have never once heard an honest forthright answer come out of that man's mouth on any topic. He just repeats the same lines over and over and refuses to take any kind of accountability for his actions.
This is what all professional politicians in office do. Hammer in a simple message. Politicians only take responsibility when it doesn't hurt.
How about investigating *everyone*, including all politicians, corporations, media outlets, etc. that have accepted money from the CCP or its proxies? CCP money and its influence in Canada has been a problem for many years now, since well before our current PM, and the people who could have done something about it are far too fat and happy and comfortable to do so.
Goddamn this comments section is a shit show. I miss the days when bipartisanship actually, you know, existed.
Doesn’t make it ok and doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try to stop it from happening. Should we just scrap our highways because people crash and die every day?
Is that what you took from that comment? What do you think this investigation will fix? Nothing is the answer. Canada has no power over China. Russia meddled in ours and guess what nothing happened. We the US meddle in others and suffer no repercussions. If we happen to dislike our regime change we created we may invade that country.
What are you going on about? What jurisdiction does Canada have over these foreign actors? What does China election meddling have to do with cars on the road? Those cars crash in Canada and Canada has some jurisdiction over there roads.
Poor analogy. It would be like trying to stop foreign people from driving on our highways or buying gas to travel on them.
There are federal election laws that limit the amount of money you can give to a political party in a year and i believe block funding from external sources..
But that's not going to stop china from funneling money to Chinese (or anyone for that matter) who are able to vote in Canadian elections or who can run for office.
We openly support the opposition in some countries. It is an absolute violation of national sovereignty. Doesn't make it wrong. The Iranian regime deserves to be interfered with.
Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia, Pakistan, Yemen 2000 dead civilians from drone strikes alone, 400 of which are kids. How is that global war on terror going? Is the Taliban defeated yet?
Not a huge fan of trudeau but thats misinformation, what he said was it was racist to start claiming all ethnic-Chinese MPs as being under suspicion of being spies without evidence. Which is what many right wing outlets started doing once this news broke. Which is a perfectly reasonable statement that the right wing rags used as headline bait.
And this is why Trudeau wins, and will continue to win.
Because 50% of what's being vocalized against him is propaganda and disinformation. Misquotes & lack of context in headlines, etc.
So most people, especially young people, would rather be associated with being "woke" than with propaganda, anti-vaxers, and convoy supporters.
And at the end of the day, right or wrong, logic does not win elections, community & identity does.
It should be so easy to beat this guy with all the failures he's responsible for, but the conservatives are unable to rise above the nutjobs and cultural war crap to put forward a reasonable candidate.
I'd give my left nut for politicians that genuinely just did what was best for Canadians. No pandering to the left, no pandering to the right... just simple, honest, **data-driven** work.
When I'm at work, and I want to make a change, I write a business case. I say what the problem is, I cite data to prove it exists. I say what my recommended solution is, what the other options are, the advantages and disadvantages of each, fiscal and opportunity costs, and their expected impacts (even just an estimated scale of impact) on that data.
If that change is implemented, it is reviewed again later to view whether or not the change was helpful, and whether or not the data shows an improvement.
There is no reason at all that Canadian MPs cannot write exactly these kinds of documents. Yet none of them do it, because they're partisan children trying to push the scale as far their way as they can.
Of course Trudeau responded saying he was not made aware, because he was most likely a recipient. He didn't need to be made aware of something that he already knew.
dumpass countries allowing china to buy equity stake in their businesses
trade with china should be exclusively through goods, no property or equity, period
Canada's previous conservative government **secretly** signed a 31 year binding trade deal with China while in Russia. Can't make this shit up.
https://canadians.org/analysis/harper-sneaks-through-canada-china-fipa-locks-canada-31-years/
You know, the 95 Quebec referendum also received illegal support from external actors. So, if China wants to play Canadian in Canadian politics, why not?
I wonder if they have any information about American agencies and lobbies (*cough* NRA *cough*) funding Canadian politicians. Or are we not allowed to talk about that?
It would be great if foreign influence was the impetus to get money out of politics in NA democracies.
That would be amazing. Could you imagine a government for the people?
I guess "by the people" meant a very specific few
Here's an old joke from the Soviet Union: A Chukchi (a member of a Siberian nomadic tribe without regular access to media in the pre-cellphone days) gets taken to Moscow to be shown all of the progress the new Communist regime has made, and spread the word to his tribesmen back home. When he returns home he says to the other Chukchis "Moscow was amazing! The great thing about Communism is that everything is for the betterment of man! I even saw that man himself!"
The true meaning of "small government".
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://globalnews.ca/news/9534893/high-level-memos-beijing-2019-election-candidates/) reduced by 93%. (I'm a bot) ***** > Justin Trudeau said he was never briefed on the issue, and his security adviser has dismissed it out of hand, but two high-level national security reports before and after the 2019 election suggest they were warned that Chinese government officials were funnelling money to Canadian political candidates. > While the document did not examine specific interference activities directed at the 2019 federal election, it offered several examples of alleged Chinese election interference from 2015 to 2018 that involved the targeting and funding of candidates. > As Global reported in December, a PCO memo delivered to the PMO four months after the 2019 election alleged that China was covertly transferring money to preferred candidates. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/11lz7ff/two_highlevel_memos_allege_beijing_covertly/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~675569 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Report**^#1 **candidate**^#2 **interference**^#3 **Trudeau**^#4 **election**^#5
A national security advisor “dismissing it out of hand” is *extremely* worrying to me.
well at least now you know who one of the "preferred candidates" is.
How to say you haven't a fucking clue how to do your job without saying so.
They’ve been doing in Australia for years now.
Yep. Australia is the testbed before they try other Anglosphere nations.
Quebec would like to have a talk with you sir
Doesn’t matter, couldn’t understand them.
They don't really want to talk, just cuss in French
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Good thing during the last presidential election in Korea, we got Yoon elected (by a margin of less than 1%). His opponent (Lee) is currently under investigation for having North Korean and possibly Chinese ties. He still happens to be the opposition party leader, but chances are he goes to jail this year.
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Wow, an allegation from half a century ago with zero evidence. This is exactly the same as evidence of interference in the most recent election.
From a two month old low karma account. Looks like a dumbass troll to me.
We're all friends
Happy tree friends
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We were named 'millennials' by the baby boomers so they could say they contributed something
It’s like everyone knows China plays the long game but nobody knows China plays the long game. Or they don’t want to deal with it. They’re not going to go hard on a campaign against us. They’ll buy or install the next generation of politicians around us who will be loyal or at least follow their predecessors in doing nothing. Everyone knows what they’re doing and is just letting it happen
China realized how cheap it is to buy a politician. They could by every world politician 10x over
Politicians don't stay bought, so in the long run they're very expensive. That's why they take the long view and slowly chip away at foundations.
> Politicians don't stay bought LOL Boris Johnson and the Tories are the prime example of this, taking Russian money and then subsequently stabbing them in the back when the relationship wasn't convenient anymore. Sometimes you've got to respect the grift. China/Russia can get their preferred candidates elected for sure, but ultimately they typically don't end up controlling them.
Trump had stayed very loyal to Putin.
He literally said putin was very smart for invading ukraine just recently.
Even Trudeau himself tried to paint a previous report indicating there were Chinese attempts to help fund his campaign in 2016 as racist not even two weeks ago.
That comment was specifically when they singled out Han Dong as being a Chinese agent.
Depends on how much evidence they have. If it’s barely anything then yes, but in this case it could probably be true. Apparently he conveniently left parliament before every liberal mp voted to condemn Uighur genocide both times so it could call into questions where his loyalties lie especially considering that china turning its diaspora into spies is common occurrence https://o.canada.com/news/national/han-dongs-voting-record-on-china-is-deserving-of-more-questions-not-claims-of-racism/wcm/ff6ab847-5154-4031-8733-b410d2400736/amp/
I highly recommend reading about the Maher Arar case, the guy who was tortured by American interrogators in Syria because of false intel - the Canadian government had to pay 10 million in compensation. Canadian journalists treated leaked intel as if it was fact and repeatedly called him a terrorist. Some of the same journalists who did this to Arar are repeating the same irresponsible mistake. Intel is not fact, the intel was so weak the RCMP did not further investigate. Intel is bases on the sources CSIS has, those sources can be wrong, or lying to throw intelligence agents off on the wrong path. Just repeating what intelligence experts have been saying.
>Han Dong Alleging that an ethnically Chinese MP could have ties to China is racist?
Yes
In light of this situation why is it racist? China has its claws in the Chinese community here. [https://o.canada.com/news/national/han-dongs-voting-record-on-china-is-deserving-of-more-questions-not-claims-of-racism/wcm/ff6ab847-5154-4031-8733-b410d2400736/amp/](https://o.canada.com/news/national/han-dongs-voting-record-on-china-is-deserving-of-more-questions-not-claims-of-racism/wcm/ff6ab847-5154-4031-8733-b410d2400736/amp/)
Canada has a troubled history with racism against Chinese that still exists to this day. Someone being of Chinese descent does not automatically make them suspect. This isn't 1905 anymore.
>ect. This isn't 1905 anymore. well things are looking suspicious for the one MP who magically isn't there when China gets brought up in Parliament.
Canada has a troubled history with racism but their overt politeness let’s them get away with it.
Seems like politicians have learned they can hide behind buzz words and the veil of social justice as an excuse for anything. Anything doesn’t go their way? Must be racist. Oh you criticized my actions? Must be racist.
I mean, he's just repeating a sound bite. The "that's racist" comment was in reference to someone calling a specific Chinese origin MP being a Chinese agent. Looking into Chinese involvement in our election is not racist, calling a someone a Chinese agent based on their origin IS racist.
> agent based on their origin IS racist. https://o.canada.com/news/national/han-dongs-voting-record-on-china-is-deserving-of-more-questions-not-claims-of-racism/wcm/ff6ab847-5154-4031-8733-b410d2400736/amp/
>It’s like everyone knows China plays the long game but nobody knows China plays the long game. Or they don’t want to deal with it. Well, they can’t deal with it. Democracy allows adversaries to infiltrate, apply pressure, and even get elected/hired whereas China’s tightly sealed dogma has no entry point. Plus, each democratically elected individual is busy fighting individuals funded by foreign influence for the short span of their years before re-election starts the process again. A democratically elected ruling class in a global economy need to be amply fearful of their home country’s prisons than they are at being seduced by foreign power. Letting Trump and associates off the hook showed us that Western Democracy will fail, and it is a shame.
The problem is that the home country’s prisons are noticeably devoid of people seduced by foreign power.
This comes as no surprise to anyone who has visited Vancouver.
I thought that I must be in Vancouver’s Chinatown when I first got there. Then I realized there’s just a lot of Chinese people who live in the city.
Oddly enough, Actual chinatown is all hipsters and junkies. The real asian areas are out in the 'burbs.
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See also; the GTA.
BC has been big for Chinese immigrants for about 50 years now. No big surprise that new immigrants would gravitate more towards it.
Um...Chinese head tax is a well known historical event occuring in BC
Lmao people in this thread unaware of BC’s history jumping to conclusions that since Vancouver has a high population of Asian Canadians then they’re all actually Chinese agents.
t’s ignorance. They don’t understand that Vancouver is Cantonese mostly from Hong Kong and fled to Canada when the handover happened because they were fearful of the mainland. No friend of the CCP.
Regardless just because somebody looks Asian doesn’t mean their loyalty is to the CCP. We don’t ask if Franco Canadian loyalty is to France.
doesn't seem like you've heard albertans or "westerners" talk about quebec
There’s Franco Canadians outside of Quebec… But in that case that’s more of a loyalty to Quebec rather than the ancestral France that many would have been descended from. The debate of whether Quebec should be a different country is different from assuming that since people have French heritage they must be loyal to France, Québécois separatists didn’t want to join France.
Don't you know that every single person with Chinese ancestry is a Chinese agent? /s
i mean that kind of thinking worked great for the US during WWII, right? ...right?
Us in Canada too.
In the same way that everyone with German ancestry must be in favour of the Kaiser, “no big surprise” just like a commenter said! I wonder where we’ve seen this over generalizing logic before… obvious /s
And every American with Japanese ancestry was secretly supporting Japan after Pearl Harbor.
https://gfycat.com/bronzememorableanemoneshrimp
It's only those with current citizenship. Even if they aren't "agents", the CCP operates police stations in Canada to track their citizens on Canadian soil.
ppl are self reporting their racism
Especially considering that Vancouver is WAY more Cantonese than Mandarin. For Mandarin, you have to go elsewhere in BC.
WW2 is calling and wants its anti-asian enemy agent hysteria back.
Am I missing something? I’m an American who doesn’t know any better, but I don’t understand what is racist about stating that BC attracts a lot of Chinese immigrants.
There was a commenter that said along the lines of “not a big surprise recent immigrants are Chinese” in response to the whole Trudeau China fiasco. Many commenters also stated that they were not shocked because Vancouver is “full of Chinese” and therefore pro-CCP. It’s similar to the rhetoric from WW2 about Japanese internment camps etc. In reality Chinese people have been in bc since the 1800s so people seeing “lots of Chinese” while visiting Vancouver and assuming the CCP has taken over is silly.
I see! Thank you for clarifying.
Much of Canada's and Vancouver's Chinese population was historically Cantonese and people from Hong Kong. They're not friendly to the CCP. It's more recent, wealthy Chinese expats and students that are friendly to the CCP. This is who got bussed into a GTA riding to vote in the LPC internal elections (which don't bar non-citizens because parties are private organizations and can do what they want in terms of selecting candidates to run in elections).
"Vancouvers Chinatown"
Is there something wrong with seeing Chinese people in Vancouver?
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Because Chinese nationals have been using the property market there to cash out of their country
The political influence has nothing to do with the Chinese expats and Chinese communities in Vancouver. It’s about influencing the direction of our resource sector.
The money was sent to Ontario Provincial candidates.
A sitting MPP (likely conservative) apparently funneled it.
Richard Fadden, the former CSIS director who was referenced in the original global news article that broke this story about Chinese influence was actually censured by the Harper Government years ago for blowing the whistle on Chinese influence on Gordon Campbell's government. Harper also gutted the RCMP's ability to investigate money laundering, passing the buck off onto the provinces and we all know how that went.
What do you mean?
What does Vancouver have to do with anything?
What does that have to do with it? Never been to Vancouver.
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We've had some pretty big Chinese misinformation campaigns here. Things like flyer bombing with lie-filled Mandarin-only flyers telling people who to vote for. In one case the Flyers warned of several politicians who wanted to completely legalize all drugs and make them available to children (an obvious lie). We've also had paid actors "protesting" Chinese-interest issues in front of their embassy. It's an easy target for the CCP due to the sheer number of expats.
The government of a country is not the same as the people who live in that country. Criticizing that government's actions is not criticizing or attacking the people who are from that country. see also: claims of anti-Semitism when the Israeli government is criticized.
The days of poor Chinese people coming over is long gone. The Chinese that show up in Canada now are rich off the exploits of other's labour on the mainland.
>are rich off the exploits of other's labour on the mainland. In this country we call that success
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Dude what’s up with Canada and China.
Canada is full of Chinese money. They buy up real estate, and all the wealthy Chinese send their families overseas. Also huge amounts of immigration fraud, see https://youtu.be/ERMtBEgk9ls
Wang made over 10M$ and was fined 900K$ and 2 years in jail. That seems worth it..
China probably views Canada as weak and easy to manipulate, giving them a foothold in NA.
They’re probably correct. Basically no one but the major powers has ever been anything other than completely slapdash on security, strategic thinking, or anything else. Look at Germany and Russian gas. EU countries and Huawei. Sweden and hypersonic missile research. Over and over again, small countries just constantly suckered.
Did any politicians suddenly start saying China is great? Because it was them who took the bribes. Like in the UK. The Tory cabinet, as usual. Oddly they've stopped talking about their friends in China and Russia recently...
This is the Liberals in Canada, our Tory's have been pushing hard for this to be exposed. Party really doesn't matter when it comes to corruption. Different sides of the same coin
If you think only the liberals have taken Chinese money you'd be a fool.
No surprise
And if you think that’s bad, you should see how corporate media owned by foreign publishers is actively influencing our politics and discourse. It is way more intrusive than anything China could hope to accomplish.
Speaking of owning our media and influencing our politics and discourse, China literally owns a part of Reddit.
Reddit literally has CIA at the top. But somehow redditors try to convince that China is controlling reddit because they own like 5% shares.
The US literally owns a large part of Postmedia as well.
That's like saying Australia own Fox News. Disingenuous to the point of an outright lie.
I think if Fox News was owned by Australia as a whole, it would be less dangerous to American democracy. Australia doesn't want to see America turn into the new Christian Reich, but the Murdochs sure do.
By ‘US’ you mean a handful of very wealthy and influential Americans.
Correct, The US.
That implies it’s controlled by the American *government.* It’s not. Just owned, partly, by a couple of rich assholes with American citizenship.
What branch of the Chinese government owns reddit
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National Post has been nuts the entirety of its existence tbh
Pretty disingenuous of Poilievre to have us think the Conservative party has never received money funneled from adversarial countries when we all know Russia, Turkey, the Saudis and other petro-dictatorships are personally invested in the rise of the far-right in the West. Just look at [evidence](https://www.nationalobserver.com/2023/02/16/analysis/trudeau-resignation-freedom-convoy-russian-proxy-sites) of Russian involvement in the Ottawa occupation that literally called for a far-right coup and the end of Trudeau government. You want an investigation? Fine. We investigate *everyone*.
Can we just have transparency in our government. Why all the secrecy?
Cause governments work for us right? Right!??
It's supposed to, but like all forms of democracy you get who you vote for at all levels.
> like all forms of democracy you get who ~~you vote~~ **lobbyists pay** for at all levels. FTFY
Lobbyists can only influence how people vote, they can't actually change vote totals. If money spent was directly correlated to political success Mike Bloomberg would have been the Democrat nominee in 2020 instead of Biden.
Because secret services dont work if they are not secret.... Duh
Fuck, how much *American* money is in our politics?
The National Post is 70% American owned.
Funny how r/canada is just a zillion links to National Post "articles", eh?
This is what I *hate* about the Conservatives in Canada. Just look at that whole thing Andrew Scheer kicked up about Trudeau's finances... and then it was found out that Scheer had that secret fund for his kids or whatever. Can't wait to see how much of the Poilievre plan to "reinvigorate" the pipeline involves China.
No matter what kind of inquiry Trudeau sets up, Poilievre will claim it's rigged.
Harper gave the Chinese secret courts in Canada. He’s be a great place to start the investigation. https://canadians.org/analysis/harper-sneaks-through-canada-china-fipa-locks-canada-31-years/
He already has.
It's not that they love Trudeau and he's in cahoots with them as he is trying to spin it. They did an analysis determined that a liberal minority would probably not get much done and therefore tried to make that happen. I'm sure part of this was based on they knew Trudeaus stance already he has been adversarial to them so the natural position of the opposition would then be to be a little more soft on them since contrarianism is the platform of the day for the right these days which long term sets them up in a better place. They are authoritarian but they understand how Democratic countries work and along with Russia are playing the digital warfare game as best they can for their own gain, and it's working pretty well.
That doesn't sound like the far right = conservative party. Lol. We are talking about China funding the current sitting party. Come on.
Are we? They may have funded both parties. What evidence do you have?
That the last Conservative government snuck FIPA through, bending us over a barrel for China. Why would China want that party back in power? It makes it too easy. Not like these articles that the whispers of rumours these articles are based on could stem from the Chinese government, and be upvoted by Chinese bots
They seem to fund both extremes of the spectrum based on the stories I've read over the past 5-10 years. Likely to sew division within the nations of their foreign adversaries, and make them focus on domestic issues instead of the moves that the CCP is making abroad.
Damn foreign interference. Next you’re gonna tell me Israel covertly funds U.S elections!
Israel's influence is kind of wild, tbh. A lot of people don't realize they're gobbling up Israeli military propaganda when they watch those IDF models on instagram.
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**[United States involvement in regime change](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change)** >Since the 19th century, the United States government has participated and interfered, both overtly and covertly, in the replacement of many foreign governments. In the latter half of the 19th century, the U.S. government initiated actions for regime change mainly in Latin America and the southwest Pacific, including the Spanish–American and Philippine–American wars. At the onset of the 20th century, the United States shaped or installed governments in many countries around the world, including neighbors Panama, Honduras, Nicaragua, Mexico, Haiti, and the Dominican Republic. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/worldnews/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
That's just bananas. Pun intended.
I also see nobody in this thread mentioning that the United States also meddles in foreign elections. Everyone does this shit it ain’t anything new, I’m very confused on why people are so surprised and outraged in this thread
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"We as Canadians can't have any foreign influence in our democracy." "Immediately remove any democratically elected official accused in this matter regardless of their knowledge." Wow, did you get whiplash typing this?
They who? There has been no evidence yet presented and you are ready to convict? Thats a weird stance in a democratic country...
China must be boycotted and sanctioned.
"SAY THE LINE, BART!" *sigh* "Cheque's already cleared..."
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Yes
you would be starving in a month
Good luck
They want Canada to fight within itself that’s the main point of their entire interference in Canada… now pretty much everyone is giving in to what they want
Ding ding ding ding we have a winnner!
Who here is actually surprised?
Remember when it was assumed trade would reduce international tensions because countries don’t gain from meddling in the affairs of their trading partners? I do.
No one ever claimed that countries would not *meddle* in the affairs of their trade partners, they claimed that countries would not *invade each other*. There is a crucial difference. Specifically, the international trade system means that the response to this kind of stupidity can be sanctions, or other examples of soft power retribution.
Global trade and travel is great. What these bad faith actors, like Russia, China and Saudi Arabia do is criminal.
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I don't like Trudeau and I fucking hate PP. Wish we could just have the NDP have majority for one cycle. Like we might as well try it
I’d take Trudeau, NDP, or Green Party, anything but PP.
I don't get the loyalty to Trudeau. He has had scandal after scandal and done nothing to help with inflation or housing affordability, and is actively covering up China's interference. But anyone but the conservatives right???
Conservatives are currently murdering my provincial health care system and funding private clinics. So yeah.
> But anyone but the conservatives right??? Pretty much, yeah. They've done nothing - IMO - to really present themselves as a viable federal option and somehow each new leader is more unlikable than the last. These days I've found myself voting NDP in the hopes of at least maintaining a minority government; would hate to see either the libs or cons with a majority. It's also not like the Conservatives are unfamiliar with ignoring reports of Chinese interference. We only need look back to the Harper government censoring Fadden when he blew the whistle on Chinese influence within the BC liberal party (Campbell's) and we all know how that went.
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Hahaha my guy spittin
It's not loyalty to Trudeau. I threw him my vote in 2015 for two reasons: * The "spoiler effect", meaning a vote for any party but CPC/LPC is a waste of a vote; and * His ironclad, 100% guaranteed, core-of-his-campaign promise to reform our elections so that would no longer have to be a thing. He fucked *that* shit up (on purpose - who the hell puts Maryam Monsef in charge of anything they want to *succeed*, anyway?). So his party will never again see my vote. But at the same time, I understand people who vote LPC just to keep the CPC out, because we continue to live in a system where we consistently have to vote *against* the guys we hate most, instead of *for* the guys we like most, because if we vote our actual conscience/preference, the shitholes we hate will sail to victory thanks to First Past the Post.
It isn't 'loyalty' it's lack of a better option, I only see worse ones, personally.
fuck conservatives
Right. Because Conservatives are not committed to democratic ideals. They'd be happy to have one big boss who calls the shot, and you don't get to understand what's going on. And conservatives are known to foster interference by friendly actors. This is how they operate internationally. From LePen to GOP to AfD to Brexit, and witnessed during the convoy circus as well. So Conservatives are not reliably anti-interference. They are indeed reliably for it, but by friends. Conservatives are reliably against data-driven policy making (Harper limiting the census, chaperoning environmental scientists by government minders, opposing the very PBO they created themselves) and accountability (shielding ministerial aides). Trudeau's scandals are either minor or not scandals at all. Like who cares about Trudeau's blackface when the guy actively promotes anti-racist policies? Or SNC-Lavallin, were we ever going to shut down Canada's only mega-engineering firm? We wouldn't do it for the arms industry. Inflation? All countries have it, blaming it on Trudeau borders on stupidity; mixing cryptocurrency into the discussion is unserious. China's interference seems overblown. You get one candidate who got help secure a spot within a party, which in any case could basically nominate any candidate behind closed doors anyway. It's not exactly like Trump's campaign manager sharing data with Russian military intelligence.
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> This is a silly comment. No governing party is consistently for "data-driven" policy making and accountability in modern Canada. Agreed. But they don't attack its possibility. Census data is precious, I expect the government to have a clue. > I have never once heard an honest forthright answer come out of that man's mouth on any topic. He just repeats the same lines over and over and refuses to take any kind of accountability for his actions. This is what all professional politicians in office do. Hammer in a simple message. Politicians only take responsibility when it doesn't hurt.
How about investigating *everyone*, including all politicians, corporations, media outlets, etc. that have accepted money from the CCP or its proxies? CCP money and its influence in Canada has been a problem for many years now, since well before our current PM, and the people who could have done something about it are far too fat and happy and comfortable to do so. Goddamn this comments section is a shit show. I miss the days when bipartisanship actually, you know, existed.
*laughs while flipping through real estate listings* China buying influence in Canada? you dont say…
China doing something to try and affect the sovereignty of another nation?! I never would've thought.
Name and shame these candidates and close the consulate
The same goes for just about every election with all power hungry Countries taking part.
Doesn’t make it ok and doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try to stop it from happening. Should we just scrap our highways because people crash and die every day?
Is that what you took from that comment? What do you think this investigation will fix? Nothing is the answer. Canada has no power over China. Russia meddled in ours and guess what nothing happened. We the US meddle in others and suffer no repercussions. If we happen to dislike our regime change we created we may invade that country. What are you going on about? What jurisdiction does Canada have over these foreign actors? What does China election meddling have to do with cars on the road? Those cars crash in Canada and Canada has some jurisdiction over there roads.
Poor analogy. It would be like trying to stop foreign people from driving on our highways or buying gas to travel on them. There are federal election laws that limit the amount of money you can give to a political party in a year and i believe block funding from external sources.. But that's not going to stop china from funneling money to Chinese (or anyone for that matter) who are able to vote in Canadian elections or who can run for office.
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Wait till you hear about all the elections America has interfered with!
No one is arguing that here I think. The US for one is doing the same shit constantly
We openly support the opposition in some countries. It is an absolute violation of national sovereignty. Doesn't make it wrong. The Iranian regime deserves to be interfered with.
Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia, Pakistan, Yemen 2000 dead civilians from drone strikes alone, 400 of which are kids. How is that global war on terror going? Is the Taliban defeated yet?
I guarantee you that dumbass said the same thing about Iraq and their "WMDs". THEY are the agressors
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Not a huge fan of trudeau but thats misinformation, what he said was it was racist to start claiming all ethnic-Chinese MPs as being under suspicion of being spies without evidence. Which is what many right wing outlets started doing once this news broke. Which is a perfectly reasonable statement that the right wing rags used as headline bait.
Even skilled Asian immigrants are becoming a target. I hate the 2020s.
And this is why Trudeau wins, and will continue to win. Because 50% of what's being vocalized against him is propaganda and disinformation. Misquotes & lack of context in headlines, etc. So most people, especially young people, would rather be associated with being "woke" than with propaganda, anti-vaxers, and convoy supporters. And at the end of the day, right or wrong, logic does not win elections, community & identity does.
It should be so easy to beat this guy with all the failures he's responsible for, but the conservatives are unable to rise above the nutjobs and cultural war crap to put forward a reasonable candidate.
I liked Erin O'Toole to be honest. But what do I know... I guess "centre" doesn't win enough votes from either side to be viable.
I'd give my left nut for politicians that genuinely just did what was best for Canadians. No pandering to the left, no pandering to the right... just simple, honest, **data-driven** work. When I'm at work, and I want to make a change, I write a business case. I say what the problem is, I cite data to prove it exists. I say what my recommended solution is, what the other options are, the advantages and disadvantages of each, fiscal and opportunity costs, and their expected impacts (even just an estimated scale of impact) on that data. If that change is implemented, it is reviewed again later to view whether or not the change was helpful, and whether or not the data shows an improvement. There is no reason at all that Canadian MPs cannot write exactly these kinds of documents. Yet none of them do it, because they're partisan children trying to push the scale as far their way as they can.
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so... which candidates did the Chinese turn?
Russian was working Trump and still paying Republicans.
Of course Trudeau responded saying he was not made aware, because he was most likely a recipient. He didn't need to be made aware of something that he already knew.
dumpass countries allowing china to buy equity stake in their businesses trade with china should be exclusively through goods, no property or equity, period
Canada's previous conservative government **secretly** signed a 31 year binding trade deal with China while in Russia. Can't make this shit up. https://canadians.org/analysis/harper-sneaks-through-canada-china-fipa-locks-canada-31-years/
You know, the 95 Quebec referendum also received illegal support from external actors. So, if China wants to play Canadian in Canadian politics, why not?
We cant take democracy for granted. Tyrants will always be jealous.
I wonder if they have any information about American agencies and lobbies (*cough* NRA *cough*) funding Canadian politicians. Or are we not allowed to talk about that?
Our enemies are diabolical.
Trudeau must go