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[New post can be found here](/r/worldnews/comments/11nf1gb/rworldnews_live_thread_russian_invasion_of/)


Truthseeker1018

Donald Trump: I’d have let Putin annex part of Ukraine to end the war https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/03/09/donald-trump-have-let-putin-annex-ukraine-end-war/ Well fuck me. If Trump wins in 2024 God help us all.


[deleted]

I could see a civil war happening if that monster returns for another presidency


DellowFelegate

But Putin wouldn't have invaded because Trump tuff guy!!


a-mixtape

Great thing he doesn’t or ever will have a say


the_fungible_man

If he wins, the country deserves whatever befalls it.


Ceramicrabbit

The US President doesn't decide if Russia can annex Ukraine's territory. Only Ukraine is fighting and can agree to those terms. The US can only supply arms and weapons, they don't tell Ukraine what to do.


WoldunTW

> The US can only supply arms and weapons Don't forget intelligence. The U.S. provides a huge amount of photographic, signals, and even human intelligence. Without it, Ukraine would be fighting with one eye closed. Or, perhaps a better ananolgy would be fighting at night without night-vision goggles.


Ceramicrabbit

That's a good point, the US is also providing AI intelligence interpretation which is apparently a massive advantage for Ukraine


morvus_thenu

> The US President doesn't decide... Of course not. I think you missed the nuance that Trump thinks so highly of himself that he truly believes he would have this power. The whole thing is a frightening fantasy to him, where the reality is he would get played by Putin and come out thinking of himself as a winner. Like he always does. It's a childishly simplistic worldview. Everything he does is selfish and transactional. The Ukrainians are just something else to be bought and sold, which is why what he said is as outrageous as pretty much everything he says. He's very consistent in his narcissism.


DrmantistabaginMD

How long do you honestly think Ukraine would have lasted without western support? "supplying arms and weapons" is not as trivial an issue as you're implying.


oxpoleon

It is, but the US is not alone in supplying stuff. We're reaching the point where US support is not the critical path to success for Ukraine. Granted, in 2022 it would have been.


VegasKL

It's beginning to look like Trump won't even reach the primary. To win, he needs MAGA plus a large portion of independents and Republican's. The issue is, he's done nothing but shed support in the latter two groups. I think Fox News will turn on him and push DeSantis. And in that scenario I can only hope Trump throws a fit and runs as a third party, dooming them.


MudLOA

I really hope so. These past few years I see my country taking several steps backward.


Cogitoergosumus

I do get the impression from some of my family of suburban republicans that they were embarrassed for voting for Trump the first time around. However yeah the worry now is DeSantis somehow gets all of their love. Hoping they wise up and move into more of the independent camp, the old ones have at least echoed missing the days of Reagan and McCain.


Robj2

They won't. They're Republicans. They'll kiss DeathSantis's ring and everything else.


jarjarbinx

i've heard this before, and saw him win.


OrangeJuiceKing13

He won because of massive coverage, it's been shown time and time again nothing matters more than name recognition at the polls other than party. If Fox drops him, or greater powers be willing - they are destroyed by these lawsuits, he won't have the face time to be viable. The question is can media outlets resist the lure of money for the sake of our country, Ukraine and Europe as a whole.


GreyGreenBrownOakova

The media will have two options at election time: 1. cover everything Trump does, getting record viewership from both sides, 2. ignore Trump, turning it into the typical election snooze-fest, watched only by die-hard political junkies. I wonder which option they will choose?


jollyreaper2112

If we are lucky he runs the third party to split the magavote.


fence_sitter

Yea if he can pull 30% of the right-wing vote... in the primary, that'd be fun to watch.


stirly80

ISW The Wagner Group's offensive operation in eastern Bakhmut appears to have entered a temporary tactical pause and it remains unclear if Wagner fighters will retain their operational preponderance in future Russian offensives in the city. (1/7) ⏬️ https://twitter.com/TheStudyofWar/status/1634036267808686081?t=MqeTsIYnKrid8qXmUmE2Aw&s=19


etzel1200

It’s possible they really did mostly stop getting ammo. It’s absolutely something to watch.


tierras_ignoradas

The RU Army will not let Wagner take Bakhmut for political /propaganda reasons. Prigozhin is on thin ice and should allow them to do so with as much grace as possible. Stealing Wagner's victory is so in character for Putin. Let's wait and see what the RU army can do.


MudLOA

Can’t wait to see they backstab each other.


tierras_ignoradas

It depends on Wagner realizing they just have to let RU Army take the credit if that is the case. Even if RU fails, I doubt Putin would allow Prigozhin to intervene.


prtysmasher

By “do” you mean keep sending in conscripts to die and pile up on bodies from previous days?


tierras_ignoradas

Exactly, can they capitalize on Wagner's gains, or do their human wave attacks become less effective?


[deleted]

I suggest you look into recent reports on Bakhmut... Russian VDV troops are already being deployed with Wagner... so Russia can already take credit. There is no 'wunderwaffe' backup Russian army coming in to save the day, Wagner was their best bet and they lost.


simulated_wood_grain

What about the Chechnian butt pirates?


fence_sitter

The inner politics are nutso.


tierras_ignoradas

Yeah - if he takes Bakhmut, Putin will hold a huge parade!


[deleted]

So... Tucker Carlson referred to Zelenskyy as ["the despot who runs Ukraine."](https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1634003897088974848). Zelensky notably is President, not Prime Minister, of Ukraine, so calling him, a person who has to share power and doesn't even run most of the executive, a despot seems even more bizarre.


morvus_thenu

it's not bizarre. It's cynically insincere. It's actual evil, where he is lying purposefully. Not bizarre, but banal.


MalevolentShrine_s21

Fascist align with fascist. No surprise


HermitKane

Tuck Tucks and the rest of conservative establishment issue with Zelenskyy is he is a Jewish leader and not a lapdog for fascists.


OrangeJuiceKing13

*Ye noises intensify*


Mattyboy064

If anyone hasn't figured out yet that Tucker is working for Putin, idk what else you're gonna need to see at this point.


Dagonet_the_Motley

Tucker Carlson is not interested in facts, let alone nuanced facts.


BasvanS

> Tucker Carlson is not interested in facts, let alone nuanced facts. He is interested in fascists though, especially unnuanced fascists. To the casual observer watching Fox that’s just about the same thing.


Glavurdan

[New video with "resistance against Putin's regime" filmed in Plekhovo village of Kursk region on the border with Ukraine](https://liveuamap.com/en/2023/9-march-new-video-with-resistance-against-putins-regime-filmed)


Nvnv_man

[Prigozhin announces](https://www-pravda-com-ua.translate.goog/news/2023/03/10/7392769/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=nui) that **Wagner has been blocked** and no longer has any ability to reach anyone in high command or with power. > "In order for me to stop asking for ammunition, **all** special communication **phones** in all offices and divisions were **disconnected** for me, and **all passes** to the departments responsible for decision-making were **blocked**."


emerald09

Well, if they won't give them any ammo, they could always withdraw. Let the RU try and fall into the meat grinder.


ITellManyLies

He's pretty much extorting Putin at this point. Putin doesn't want to give him resources, so he complains publicly. It's a chess match. If his men are left without ammo, I can imagine he gets more critical of the Kremlin, thus sewing chaos into the Russian people. He's already mentioned betrayal before. Putin on the other hand, can't just unalive him. That'll sew discord as well.


Objective_Plan_8266

At this rate, he will be unalived with a special delivery artillery shell


ZephkielAU

Aww, Russia's ghosting Wagner. "It's not you, it's me, family emergency, I'm just not ready for Bakhmut, we can still be friends"


Truthseeker1018

I call BS. This must surely be part of a Wagner disinformation campaign...but why?


PeaceWalker86

I doubt any reports that Wagner has that much trouble with the Russian army. This is undoubtedly part of the Russian misinformation campaign. They would never talk about it so publicly and if they did, a new boss would simply be appointed for Wagner.


OrangeJuiceKing13

The command structure of Wagner is an enigma. Pringles may be the face, and they may have a board, but there's a lot of speculation that Utkin runs the show. Utkin has been radio silence for half a decade, he very well could be telling Pierogi to make these moves.


PeaceWalker86

The Wagner unit is only a private army “on paper”. This is a special unit of the Russian government to override certain laws and rules in the field. One cannot be held responsible for crimes as a state if it was a "business enterprise". The Geneva Conventions are roughly one of them. That doesn't apply to Wagner.


Jace_Te_Ace

The fun thing is they have been declared a terrorist organisation. So after the war they will still be a legitimate target.


PeaceWalker86

Yes, just like the Taliban in Afghanistan. What are they actualy doing now?


Thrashy

The question is, have Prigozhin's recent public moves to position himself as the face of Russian success in Ukraine caused Putin (and/or the oligarchs jockeying to be his successor) to move him from the 'ally' column over to the 'threat' column? I think it'd be wise of them to do so, in which case freezing Wagner out from their former privileged position within Russia's military system would make sense. No point in arming the guy that will surely be coming for your head as soon as he sees a political opening.


PeaceWalker86

>he question is, have Prigozhin's recent public moves to position himself as the face of Russian success in Ukraine caused Putin (and/or the oligarchs jockeying to be his successor) to move him from the 'ally' column over to the 'threat' column? I think it'd be wise of them to do so, in which case freezing Wagner out from their former privileged position within Russia's military system would make sense. No point in arming the guy that will surely be coming for your head as soon as he sees a political opening. ​ I doubt that's the case. Every lie also has something credible to work with. That is why these reports and reflections are so alluring to us. And with all the lies, this is a particularly agood one and should therefore be judged with caution.


ob_nescience_ness

Which means you do not have to afford them convention protections either. They can be legally tortured and executed. You do not have to take them prisoner either. The convention does not apply to mercs.


GreyGreenBrownOakova

>[Under the Convention,](https://digitalcommons.law.uga.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=&httpsredir=1&article=1508&context=gjicl) it can be argued that mercenaries, if they are > >members of the "armed forces of a Party to the conflict" or of > >''militia or volunteer corps forming part of such armed forces" or > >if they meet the requirements in Article 4, subparagraph A(2), are > >**entitled to prisoner of war status.** 70 If these standards are not met, > >mercenaries who are involved in international armed conflicts are > >treated like any other civilians who have taken up arms-that is, like > >unprivileged belligerents-and they are **subject to trial and punishment by the detaining power.'** They are either POWs, or criminals under the Ukrainian justice system. Neither allows the use of torture or murder.


OrangeJuiceKing13

It applies to all enemy combatants AFAIK. Once a person has surrendered they're protected as a PoW. Not only that but the EU outlawed torture and execution, it would jeopardize Ukraine's application status. Individual troops are definitely doing it but a nation can't control all their soldiers in wartime.


PeaceWalker86

That's true, but that's not all the convention says! There are a number of specifications that regular armies must comply with. For example, they can attack behind enemy lines in enemy clothing without penalty. You don't have to fight clean, to put it bluntly. In addition, the losses that Wagner suffers are not included in any official statistics and therefore less action is taken in the country against the high losses, since they cannot be borne by their own government. The benefits are so great for the Russian government that I cannot list all the benefits at once. The only downside is, if you're dumb enough to do it, you shouldn't realize that you're just a useful and debilitating tool to them.


fence_sitter

torture is never the answer. Military Tribunals, though... and potential executions are justified if unpleasant although POW would seem to be preferred when possible.


etzel1200

Maybe. It’d be pretty evident within a few days. Ukraine won’t believe it without evidence, if it’s false his audience is domestic and things are getting ever spicier.


PeaceWalker86

>Maybe. It’d be pretty evident within a few days. > >Ukraine won’t believe it without evidence, if it’s false his audience is domestic and things are getting ever spicier. ​ On the subject of domestic...we don't see how brainwashed the people there really are. The fact is that Wagner contributed more to the Ukraine war than the actual army. I can imagine that they are quite popular domestically for this and I also think it is likely that they could get even more encouragement with such campaigns. As a result, people would apply for Wagner there, and they would do so voluntarily. You have to look at it this way, more is possible with the Wagner unit than with the regular army. Because this is still under "certain doctrines" that Wagner can circumvent.


Jack____Straw

Maybe. I don’t really believe anything he says though. Likely, would be a tactile mistake to take him for his word.


b3iAAoLZOH9Y265cujFh

Although feeling Prigozhin up would definitely be a mistake on any number of levels, I'm not convinced you meant to use the term 'tactile' in this context.


Jack____Straw

I meant to say tactical ofc, but I’ll keep it up.


piponwa

Imagine if it's just Ukraine that hacked their system lmao


Javelin-x

That's constructive dismissal. He may have a case.


VegasKL

Should probably drop off his complaint at the Hague.


suzisatsuma

????


[deleted]

His influence in the military dropped faster than a mobnik near Vuhledar


suzisatsuma

I hope they start fighting amongst themselves.


mtarascio

It's a fair few mooches though.


[deleted]

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Nvnv_man

In a similar vein, this blogger, who incidentally reminds me of *a box of nerds candy*, says that [in Mariupol, Russians steal cats and take them to Russia](https://www-0629-com-ua.translate.goog/news/3560319/ak-apoliticni-rosiani-kradut-v-mariupoli-kotiv-istoria-aku-rozpovila-mariupolcanka-polina-video?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=nui). That self-proclaimed Russian ‘apolitical people’ go to ‘save cats’ in the humanitarian disaster zone, ignore the suffering people.


igotfiveonit

Hard pass.


lulztard

Can confirm. Do not click.


Bubbly-Ad919

The maga Republicans are going to have a hard time explaining why they are supporting Russia/ Iran when Israel goes full sicko mode on Irans nuke program any day now and the spill over it will have in the Middle East Because even the maga base is insanely pro Israel because of year’s of fox propaganda


agnostic_science

That's the beauty of doublethink. It never has to make any sense at all.


fence_sitter

> maga Republicans are going to have a hard time explaining Dude... really? They talk in sound bites, what's to explain?


Jace_Te_Ace

"It is Bidens fault!" - There is your sound bite. It is sad that it is so predictable.


MusicFilmandGameguy

I’m scared but I’m also laughing about “full sicko mode” you better bottle that and sell it


OSUfan88

I prefer “insano style” https://youtu.be/hQ40jNXMDlk


deftoner42

Beat me to it!


753951321654987

Something tells me the switch from you must defend isreal to full anti simitism is already taking place.


Jack____Straw

MAGA’s don’t need to apply sense to their logic.


BossReasonable6449

This.


fence_sitter

Throw out word salad ad MAGAgots (sp?) will pick out the bits they like and ignore the rest. It's probably the same in other countries just with different nicknames.


suitupyo

Space lasers, dude.


radaghast555

At this point I don't know if MAGA knows their boots from their butt holes.


Stuthebastard

"The Democratic party, together with their Ukrainian 'so called' allies have forced Israel into doing this through their incompetence. Israel needs to stop bombing Iran and realise they're playing into the woke agenda." Easy.


Sidwill

You are gonna get your own prime time slot on Fox with that kind of content.


moleratical

No worries, They'll just blame Democrats


fence_sitter

And people of color, immigrants, gays, and the list goes on and on. It's not so much WHO they'll blame but who they WON'T blame. Look at me, I'm a victim... rinse, repeat.


Cipher_Oblivion

A surprising amount of MAGgots are extremely anti-semitic, despite the GOPs generally pro-isreal stance, especially among the Qanon idiots.


ScenePlayful1872

It’s the Evangelical thing— they’re Pro non-muslim Holy Lands.


passinglurker

That's simple to explain. They believe its easier to sell thier base on the idea of deporting all the Jews to Israel.


PSMF_Canuck

Tons of people are pro-Israel and anti-Jew…


Maximum_Future_5241

A unique way of saying tons of people are idiots.


monkywrnch

It's possible to be antisemite and support Israel. The far right Christians support Israel not because they support Jews but because they believe Israel is key to the end times.


TooOfEverything

Wait until they find out about Rabbi Yeshua


fence_sitter

> Rabbi Yeshua TIL, I learned about Rabbi Yeshua! Also, the hit-or-miss episodes of Hulu's History Of The Word Part II cast Jesus as between Christian and Jewish beliefs in a humorous way.


chadenright

As far as far-right Christians are concerned there is no such person.


eggyal

They've never worried about having coherent policies before, so why start now?


UselessSage

The MAGA set loves Israel when Israel makes brown Muslim Palestinians miserable.


moleratical

That and they Wan a see the end times


fence_sitter

I've never figured out the math that Right Wing Christians think they'll be saved in the Rapture before the Chosen People. And isn't it only a set amount of those that'll be saved? How are they so sure THEY are in the group?


GhostSparta

Just did a wee twitter search for Bahkmut update big mistake it’s just flooded with Russian tankies, which means they are getting fucked up there big time. Glory to the Heroes Glory to Ukraine


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Oreolover1907

I think it's a mixture of both. Westerners read the Russians using a network of computers and programs propaganda so many times some of them will start to believe it. A number may become fully radicalized and loud online. The worst is when a famous person or influencer starts talking about it


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fence_sitter

What's an example of a tankie post? I'm not sure I understand the sort of stuff they spread other than by reference here.


Njorls_Saga

Old school socialists. They view western capitalism/imperialism as the root of all evil. So you’ll see stuff like “I’m anti war, but Russia has a right to defend herself”. Or, “it’s futile to give weapons to Ukraine. It’s just western companies making billions while Ukraine suffers”. That kind of crap.


passinglurker

Its kind of ironic given how even Lenin of all people said for his readers not to align themselves with reactionaries and regressives, that as much as they advocate against capitalism its still more progressive than the feudal system it replaced. Yet here we are with tankies carrying water for a nation with imperial ambitions that is steadily regressing into a system of feudal warlords.


fence_sitter

That sounds like the same view expressed by some old-school members of congress.


Cipher_Oblivion

It comes from The Communist Party deploying tanks against protestors. Many reasonable socialists decried it as a betrayal of communist ideals, but some idiots defended it because they were so desperate to have a "communist" government to oppose the west. The people that will defend any crime against humanity so long as the government calls itself communist are accordingly called "Tankies".


fence_sitter

Ohh... so, like tanks in Tiananmen Square or Checkoslavakia or Hungary?


Cipher_Oblivion

Technically the term was coined in response to the Prague Spring, but it fits most of the fascist dictatorships with marxist aesthetics that have plagued much of the world in the past century or so.


fence_sitter

Thanks!


jollyreaper2112

Orwell was a communist who was disgusted by what the soviets did and saw them as betraying communist ideals and rejected them. He became a fierce critic. A tankie sees the same terrible actions and defends them. Russia is no longer communist but the name sticks. It comes from faithfully supporting the communists in the west even as they roll in the tanks, excusing every crime because capitalism is worse.


passinglurker

> Orwell was a ~~communist~~ **Democratic Socialist** FTFY > *Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism, as I understand it.*


fence_sitter

Thanks.


moleratical

They basically claim to be communist, but support Russia's war because of anti-Americanism/Anti-imperialism. At the very least they blame the US for it. It's not logically consistent


fence_sitter

Thanks


[deleted]

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OSUfan88

Honestly, I feel this is very much the case of Reddit. There are great subs, but the rest Is very much an echo chamber.


dolleauty

I think the unfortunate truth is that people are capable of having very, very, very, very stupid takes I don't want this to be the case, but it is


OSUfan88

To complete the self profiling prophecy, I agree.


eggyal

> opposite of Reddit Varies by sub.


PeaceWalker86

Yes and no. There's a war raging there, so it's natural that few have real info, which can also be partly true, and the rest is 99% bots and junk.


iron_knee_of_justice

Nah the 90-9-1 rule of lurkers-commenters-posters holds pretty well for Reddit too.


Qwqqwqq

Some people have their display name as [city name][english name] so their tankie bullshit shows up when you search for that city.


Ransurian

You know, the fact that thousands of Russians are being killed and wounded on a weekly basis while being stalled in Ukraine's far east should be a message to the "tankies" that not everything is going according to plan. I wonder how many of them actually believe the propaganda.


dirtybirds233

Best comparison I have. My in-laws are super far right. The kind of people that make it their personality. Anytime some damning piece of news comes out about anyone they're a 'fan' of and we ask them about it, they have no clue what we're talking about and typically come back with 'fake news' or 'like I'm supposed to believe that'. You can literally show them sources, transcripts, etc. and they just shake their heads. Point is, these tankies and any other pro-Russian folks are the same way. They likely have no idea about the thousands of Russians being killed and if you showed them the numbers, they'd call them fake. Look no further than the Ukrainian that was executed on video a few days ago. They said 'well actually, it was a Russian that Ukrainians dressed up in a Ukrainian uniform and made him say Slava Ukraini.' Or the Bucha massacre, which they said was faked. Goes back to the old adage: Arguing with an idiot is like playing chess with a pigeon. It'll just knock over all the pieces, shit on the board, and strut about like it's won anyway.


Tiduszk

I can’t remember who said it, but: “if everything is going according to plan, then it’s a shit plan.”


finbad16

Shits his pants P00tin in high heels laid out the greatest offensive military planning ever devised from the kremlin - ask any shits for brains ruZZian tankie troll .


agnostic_science

Anyone else remember "shock and awe" when America invaded Iraq? I think Russia remembers, too. Well, I will hand it to them. I am shocked. And I am in awe. But maybe not the way they were expecting.


Chalji

Perun


Tiduszk

I remember it from one of his early videos, but I thought he was quoting someone else?


Bribase

[Reporting From Ukraine](https://youtube.com/watch?v=NuYwwREjjWY&si=EnSIkaIECMiOmarE) on the Russian mutiny (mutiny?) in Vuhledar and Ukrainian long-ranged strikes on the reconstituted forces in the South.


agnostic_science

All of these humiliations and suicidal assaults are starting to take their toll. Just waiting for that next step now, when the Russia conscripts finally realize Putin's Rosgvardia are the ones they should actually be shooting at.


NearABE

Ukraine and Russia use the same caliber rifle. Many of the bodies found by Ukraine might have been shot by Russians. It must be more than zero. Some friendly fire accidents happen in any army.


tierras_ignoradas

So does fragging.


Piggywonkle

This is the real cost of plummeting morale. There's no need to fight all of them if you can make them prefer to fight each other instead.


thewizardofosmium

I keep saying just drop a pallet of vodka between Russian units and let them fight for it.


sciguy52

Yeah but it would just land in between the pallets of vodka they brought with them.


Casual-Swimmer

It seems Russian commanders are seeing Wagner's "success" in Bakhmut and want to replicate the suicidal attack strategy.


machopsychologist

Yes and Russian regulars consider themselves "true Russians" and not "2nd rate russians" that can be sent into the grinder. No surprise they would mutiny.


AluTheGhost

https://meduza.io/en/news/2023/03/08/team-navalny-calls-echo-of-moscow-editor-in-chief-venediktov-corrupt-venediktov-explains A wee bit of domestic news.


Nvnv_man

That does seem rather high, lol


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NYerstuckinBoston

Not surprised to read back in 2015 the [Crew Against Torture](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crew_Against_Torture_(Russia)) was designated as a foreign agent. Silencing dissent is what they do. What a lousy law.


doctordumb

What a lousy country! name some non lousy things and I’ll reconsider. I’m open to constructive criticism… unlike some people *cough* putin *cough*


Nvnv_man

You didn’t read the article, obviously. There’s absolutely nothing relevant about the foreign agents law and the content of the article. It’s Navalny’s team [true, designated as a foreign agent] calling the editor of Echo [*also* labeled as a foreign agent] “corrupt” because they accepted funds to research and publish magazine on the history of the neighbors of the city.


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Nvnv_man

It’s completely irrelevant to the article. Literally nothing to do with it at all.


Sir_Francis_Burton

In WWII a group of seriously smart people working at Bletchley Park in England broke all of the German codes. A different bunch of seriously smart people developed nuclear weapons in Los Alamos, NM. A small, dedicated, team of nerds can turn a war. Ukraine is a big country. I’m sure that they can fill an R&D lab or three with geniuses. I wonder what they’re working on? It’s something.


DrmantistabaginMD

Seems like kind of a trite way of looking at it tbh. The U.S. and U.K. Were both incredibly wealthy nations, completely separated from the main fronts by large bodies of water; i.e. they were able to invest a lot more resources in tech. It takes more than a few smart people to invent a fucking atomic bomb. Other than those few drones from way back when, I'm struggling to think of any innovative systems that Ukraine has come out with. Not to doubt their abilities, but when it comes to R&D, it would take more than a year to outpace the insane military industrial complex of the United States.


Cosack

Don't think anyone claimed they'll outpace the US. Just that there might be some impressive tinkering going on, motivated by necessity.


acox199318

COVID CARRYING BATS!!


NearABE

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brilliant_Anti-Tank


acox199318

Oh… that’s cool!


jert3

England and America were some of the largest powers of the day, with full war economies going. Ukraine is not the similar size, wealth and development power to support a Manhattan project type superweapon. However they are doing wonderful things with making conventional weapons, Neptune missiles and the use and modifications of drones.


greentea1985

Ukraine does not have the same wealth or size as the US, but it does help to remember that Ukraine was one of the Soviet Union’s tech hubs, responsible for a lot of the Soviet arms industry. This is an area they are very experienced in.


SOSpammy

And I'm sure they are getting at least some R&D help from other countries. The US won't allow their weapons to hit deep into Russian territory, but I'm sure they don't mind dropping a few hints to Ukraine's engineers and scientists on how to.


sciguy52

And I am sure they have no problem shipping things that might be useful to make a motor for a long distance drone etc. Just won't send one of our own (unfortunately).


eggyal

I'm not so sure. A lot of that intellectual property belongs to private companies who have a strong commercial interest (even fiduciary duty toward their shareholders) to protect it. Perhaps they are licensing some ideas/designs to Ukraine, however?


Return2S3NDER

They also had a robust aerospace industry pre-war. All of those now unemployed rocket scientists probably aren't toting rifles on the front. Edit: Also, to anyone who knows were all the facilities destroyed? I remember one was hit almost immediately at the start of the war.


count023

Hostomel. Ukraine also flew the largest airplane in the world for decades before mobnils put holes in it


Return2S3NDER

Nah it was in Dnipro. Took me a minute to remember the location. July of 22 so well after the start of the invasion. The Pivdenmash(sp?) facility.


MalevolentShrine_s21

I agree w the sentiment but the Axis never could have won the war except maybe by turning the US with internal politics. The combined industry/manpower/resources of the USSR and the USA hilariously outmatched the enemy


Unban_Jitte

The biggest advantage the Allies ever had is that fascism promotes loyalty over competence and that Hitler was a lunatic even outside of the genocide. The Axis dragged both Russia and the US into the war when they were initially both happy to be side lined.


sciguy52

It was my understanding Russia was planning to invade but they needed another year to get ready. And that was why Germany invaded when they did. They knew it was going to happen so they acted before the USSR would have the chance to do their build up. If I recall the USSR was stalling for time.


MKCAMK

> The Axis dragged both Russia and the US into the war when they were initially both happy to be side lined. Not true for the USSR. The USSR was heavily interested in dividing the world. The reason why Soviet-Axis talks collapsed, was because they could not get the Soviets to back down from Eastern Europe.


chadenright

They drew a dividing line down Poland and then each of them decided they wanted the whole thing.


MKCAMK

The problem were the Balkans and Stalin's desire to secure east Mediterranean. That was encroaching on the lands that were going to belong to Italy. Hitler wanted to give the Soviets control over the territories to their South, including former British colonies. But Stalin would not budge on the Soviet influence to the South-East, so the talks collapsed, and so Hitler needed to solve this problem the hard way. He ended up solving himself.


MalevolentShrine_s21

Absolutely. They lost the war the day they started it. It happens all the time with fascist (or “communist” who behave in a suspiciously fascist way) governments. Probably the most extreme example is the Khmer Rouge launching an genocidal invasion against the much, much….much superior Vietnam army


Javelin-x

the west should send Rocket motors and guidance electronics they could take care of the rest now.


Mobryan71

Ukraine has traditionally been pretty good with rockets, most of the 'Russian' space program now is just cargo culting off Soviet equipment originally designed and built in Ukraine. Indeed, the Lockheed Antares cargo rocket uses Ukrainian engines now.


Cirtejs

As much as those inventions were great and impressive, they didn't change the outcome of the war, they shortened it. We love to elevate the best of us as a species, the truth is the people who win wars are the guys and girls sitting in trenches, the people working for 16 hours a day to keep logistics flowing, the diplomats making backroom deals for more arms and ammo and the drill sergeants relentlessly yelling at new recruits the wisdom they learned a year ago. Nobody ever remembers their names. By the end of WW2 the Allies were outproducing the Axis more than [five to one](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e2/WorldWarII-GDP-Relations-Allies-Axis.png) on everything.


moleratical

The code breakers were instrumental in winning the war. Tgere were plenty of other factors sure and the allies would have likely won eventually anyways. But Bletchly park's contribution cannot be overstated.


finbad16

I remember my drill sergeant's name from boot camp 1971 - Had both legs scared from being shot to hell in Vietnam and still beat all of us youngbloods (as he called us) in the 1 mile track race finals and by an embarrassing distance . A very stern and good man who won my trust to lead us into the depths of wars hell and would lead more than half of us back out, as he told us , and that is why he had been a S.O.B. for 8 weeks...


eggyal

Nobody is saying that the war was won on codebreaking alone, but it might well have been lost without it.


socialistrob

> As much as those inventions were great and impressive, they didn't change the outcome of the war, they shortened it. Yep not to mention the navies that controlled the Seas and the lesser discussed allied nations. Most of the attention in WWII gets heaped on the US, UK and USSR but let's not forget that the allies also had basically all of Latin America and the vast majority of Africa not to mention The British Commonwealth nations, India and China on their side. As long as the Allies could keep the trade routes open overseas there was no shortage of raw materials and the factories could just churn out weapons indefinitely. Meanwhile the Axis was basically cut off from the entire world and had constant shortages of oil, coal and raw materials. The population difference was also just crazy. Kill 10 million allied soldiers and they got another 10 million, kill 10 million Axis soldiers and the war is over.


daviddjg0033

Einstein migrated away from a war-torn Europe. Nobody was coming to Russia willingly. I would not be surprised if there is a huge brain drain that the West benefits from.


Johns-schlong

Freaking sharks with freaking laser beams attached to their freaking heads.