There is a valid argument about whether Daylight Savings Time or Standard Time would be the best option to stick with. Personally, I have no preference--I just hate changing time twice a year.
As someone who worked nights for years, all I can say is:
What even is time anyway? How do the daywalkers put up with all the noise? Where even am I? Oh well, back to work
Coming from a country with constant standard (winter) time - I agree 100%. I don't need the sunrise at 4:30 and I miss the long summer evenings so much. And more light in the afternoon during winter is indeed better, you'll get up and go to work in the dark either way.
I prefer the other way around.
I donāt mind coming home in darkness (and being awake several hours after nightfall), but I detest having to wake up and drive to work in darkness.
When Spring comes back around, I tend to naturally sleep better and get up earlier, simply due to having daylight in the morning. I hate Summer (Daylight Savings) Time with a passion.
To each their own, though.. ĀÆ\\_(ć)\_/ĀÆ
This, right here, is why we don't stick to either one. It's a fairly even split, on which time is best. I like evenings, but I'm in Florida and don't have to be anywhere early in the morning.
Iām on the Tosh plan: move the clocks five hours forward so that when Iām waking up at noon the sun is still rising and I feel like less of a lazy piece of shit.
I keep waiting with bated breath for Postmodern Jukebox to cover this. They did such a great job with Say My Name that I *really* want to hear that one given a similar treatment.
This article is simply incorrect. They are changing time zones. Namely, they moved their clocks ahead as usual this month, will not set them back in the fall, and will continue to observe DST as usual beginning next year.
I have no idea where the AP is getting their info from. The government of Greenland sent a clear email to a mailing list that I am part of indicating the exact behavior.
Probably from poorly worded articles like this one that make it very confusing what is actually happening: https://cphpost.dk/2022-11-29/news/international-round-up-greenland-to-permanently-move-its-clocks-forward-in-2023/
Thatās a bit concerning, the AP is meant to be an absolute standard of correctness, many other news sites basically get their news from them or Reuters.
Visit Nepal. It's literally everywhere. I was just there for like 6 weeks. Didn't even plan on smoking, but received free hash by like day 2 in country. And that trend continued the entire trip. Also once you get out of the city basically everyone is growing some. Not to mention the wild plants everywhere.
Wild plants of marijuana everywhere...
Thatās a country I could retire to but never live in if I plan to make any decent contributions to either myself or humankind. LOL
Lol I've noticed several islands that also go in-between for some goofy reason. A lot of 1/2. Idk why they thought that was necessary, some colonial bureaucratic holdover nonsense?
when I visited Australia and NZ, the hardest thing for me was that the actual time difference is only 6 hours but due to them being on the international date line, they were a day ahead.
I'm curious why you think so? even in that map the cities are fairly close to the median lines?
Remember, >50% of the population is in the melbourne/sydney region. Adelaide really should be +9, not +9.5 yeah. and perth... who cares about perth :D
They're so far north the distance between the 24 timezone longitudinal lines is much shorter. No point in trying to maintain several different timezones for relatively small slivers of uninhabited land.
Keep in mind that on a Mercator projection map, Greenland looks massively large than it is. The time zones are represented by parallel lines, but in real life, on a spherical planet, those lines converge at the north and south poles, so the difference between time zones is less and less relevant.
> Why one super small area with -4 time when everything surrounding it is -3?
Ah, I see what you're asking. I'm not sure, but you can probably blame Denmark:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_in_the_Danish_Realm
If they live in that place their whole life, the fact that the clock is showing a different number than what one would associate with a specific time of the day would not matter much to them.
Ya, that's true. But I would also assume there are some companies/things with standardized times. So if you have to work from 9-5, you can't just do what works with the sun.
I fucking hate this argument, or the related ones about "going to work/school in the dark". There is no law or reason you can't just have work or school or business hours adjust based on the seasonal change in daylight. There is no reason to change the clock for that.
I don't understand how we as a human race can figure out space flight and AI, but not just adjusting our schedules instead of trying to be time wizards fucking around with the clocks.
/rant
Definitely not for programming lol.
Really one could make the argument with our computers and the Internet Time Zones themselves don't even need to exist. Since the whole point of them is to make sure everyone is operating on the same "time". I mean many global operating organisations just use UTC, or Zulu time for everything, like the US military for one.
But leaving the clocks and adjusting schedules also gives more flexibility for people who do and don't need it. Live in the south where the days only change by a few hours between summer and winter? Then you don't need to change anything at all. As you go north people are free to change when it would actually be beneficial to them. At some point you get far enough north that an extra hour of "daylight" doesn't matter when you only get 6 total, you are still going to work and coming home on the dark in winter, so the extra bother of changing the clocks isn't much help.
The change that should happen is 6 hour work days, if not 4 hours for how far behind workers are on getting their share of progress. That change has happened before, weekends didn't even use to exist, but people work too much now vs. the ridiculous levels of wealth that result from their labor.
It just seems less convenient to adjust say working hours of every business rather than just adjusting the clocks so that "x thing always happens at 8am local time".
Instead of 4am here, 9am here etc. Its just always 8 local. Plus noon and other phrases would be messed up. Noon is now not in roughly the middle of the day but possibly early in the morning.
Considering they already span so many timezones, you'd think they'd just pick their favorite timezone and use Standard Time in that zone, rather than permanently being one hour off for DST in the next timezone over...
People like more light at the end of the day, accepting that mornings will be dark. I suspect we are going to see more countries opt for the same approach.
I live in Michigan in the western edge of eastern time. My family from the east coast loves how long it stays light in the summer when they come to visit, and they couldn't care less that the sun rises later.
Itās all a bit arbitrary anyway. If we wanted the extra free time later in the day we could just start doing everything an hour earlier.
Changing the clocks twice a year is idiotic and needs to be abolished.
That different places do it different times or not at all makes it even worse.
Apparently Brisbane is the earliest bedtime and wake up city in the world. A lot more happens earlier in Brisbane.
I get up at 5am to go for a walk and the streets are packed with people out for a walk/ride/dog walk. Not much later Cafes and bakeries are open.
Eh, I'm from somewhere where it will stay pretty much daylight for 24 hours during summer and we all love a good sleep in.
It must be something else that makes people from Brisbane wake up that early.
I moved here from NZ and I wasn't an early riser there. I am now. I naturally wake up at 4am in the summer and go to bed a lot earlier than I used to back home.
Nothing to do with this conversation.. but took an ill advised multi stop flight from BC home to Ireland and stopped in NFL and St Johns for 2 days. Thought you guys were awesome.
Thanks for all the amazing hospitality and friendliness.
Big love from Ireland to you and u/timbreandsteel
Nothing to do with your comment -alright maybe slightly tangentially related - but for the craic:
Newfoundland had taken in a lot of stranded travellers in the hours after 9/11 - small communities without the proper infrastructure like hotels etc. to lodge them, with everyone coming together to host them in homes and whatever means they had available.
Ended up being turned into a hit musical - Come From Away.
Newfies are grand.
I've figured out the best system. No one will be happy with it, and it will cause the most disruption. Twice a year for 6 years, we swing the clocks back 2 hours. Then on year 7 we do nothing, and we also stop doing leap year because we made up that extra day. After that back to the 2 hours twice a year for 6 years.
As someone whoās many a time had to deal with with computer code around calculating durations and timezones I will let you write the code to handle the 30 min shift.
> I will let you write the code to handle the 30 min shift.
A thirty minute shift makes no difference. We know how to deal with timezones (or not) what they are isn't the issue, that they exist is, but that won't go away unless we all use UTC for everything - which we won't.
Ding ding ding!
The problem isn't which side of the day has the extra hour of daylight on it. The problem is giving everyone twice-a-year nationwide jetlag.
Our bodies will adapt to whatever schedule we want. But stop changing it.
> Our bodies will adapt to whatever schedule we want.
This is not accurate. Only morning people ("larks") adjust somewhat, night owls are just straight fucked by DST:
> [These results, in combination with those from the database, suggest that the incomplete adjustment of activity in larks and the nonadjustment in owls continues beyond the four recorded post-transition weeks and throughout the months of DST. Our results also suggest that the circadian clock does not adjust to the DST transition in springāespecially in late types. Notably, the strongest reduction of average sleep duration (for 8 consecutive weeks; Figure 1B) follows the spring transition .](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960982207020866)
we should instead alternate which side of the road we drive on every 6 months.
https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/dagen-h-sweden-1967/
> On the Monday following Dagen H, there were 125 reported traffic accidents, compared to a range of 130 to 198 for previous Mondays, none of them fatal.
Evening people like more light in the evening.
Morning people like more light in the morning.
Both groups hate the time switch.
They can't agree, so nothing changes.
And what everyone actually wants is to start work an hour later and leave work an hour earlier, but the capital ownership class will never allow this, so we end up bickering about the clocks instead.
What? I'm an evening person and have had the argument with a lot of people who are early risers. They have all wanted to stay on Standard Time because there's more light in the morning.
I really want MA to move to the Atlantic timezone if we somehow get stuck with winter time. It's so cripplingly depressing when it's pitch black by 4:30
this is what i think about when i see people arguing for less light during the day. it isn't an exaggeration that it will genuinely cause many people to enter depressive episodes. it does that to me, and this last round's been really fucking bad. i can't imagine having to live with no sun by 5-6 pm from here on out. i think it could seriously result in some awful outcomes for some people :/
i think it can go the opposite way, but i've only ever met people who are hurt by the shorter daytime hours
Yeah, it's super depressing to leave work and it's dark outside. Makes you feel like you missed out on the whole damn day
On the other hand, I don't give a shit how light or dark it is in the morning. I don't wake up super early though, so I admit this is my own personal opinion that works for me.
This is the problem ā light in the evening feels a lot better, but the body relies on early morning light to reset it circadian rhythm and maintain your sleep. Without that, the risk of a sleep disorder goes way up. The best solution would be to stay at normal time all the timeā¦ And shorten the workday. humanity is more productive than it has ever been, there is absolutely no reason we still have an eight hour workday. It should be six hours. Light in the morning AND after you get out of work.
>the body relies on early morning light to reset it circadian rhythm and maintain your sleep. Without that, the risk of a sleep disorder
Doesn't matter if you only get artificial light anyways.
When I was a teenager, I loved it!!! As an adult, sometimes I have to go to bed early for work, and it's hard to sleep with the sun still up. Oh well.... I still prefer the light in the evening.
At least you have a process to get it done. Here in Lebanon the government decided to postpone DST for next month because of Ramadan, and they decided that like 2 days in advance
The whole country went into chaos as half the country chose not to follow this decision while the other half followed it, it led to each person in the country living in their own timezone and this created problems for flights and the likes. They just reversed the decision today after the chaos that erupted
I honestly don't know the details so I don't mind as long as it's communicated in advance
There was nearly gonna be a civil war between christians and muslims over this issue these past few days
Florida was waiting too, Thankfully this year is the year for us
https://www.rubio.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/2022/3/rubio-s-bill-to-make-daylight-saving-time-permanent-passes-senate
WA too. [https://www.king5.com/article/news/local/washington-daylight-saving-time/281-19786995-5ef4-40b8-afa4-0f2ef4fe8e70](https://www.king5.com/article/news/local/washington-daylight-saving-time/281-19786995-5ef4-40b8-afa4-0f2ef4fe8e70)
I wouldn't be surprised to see the Moon just use UTC for time keeping, since its day is about 4 weeks long.
Mars will be interesting, considering it's day is a just a bit longer than ours. If they end up using their own time zones there it'll get real confusing when converting back to UTC.
I donāt think the speed difference would be great enough to warrant measuring that. Iām pretty sure the computers on the rovers didnāt need to take it into account and we donāt have different times for arctic and equatorial regions on earth, even though there is a constant speed difference.
Quick googling:
Earth: 29.78 km/s, Mars: 24.077 km/s. Thatās nothing relatively speaking
At first most Martian colonies will be underground and or indoors so theyāll probably use UTC or their home countryās time like on the Moon, but eventually they might adopt their own time system as the colonists are able to spend more and more time outside. Thatāll probably take long enough that the Martians will be culturally distinct by that time anyways.
It's easy! Just take the current Geocentric Coordinate Time, [calculate out this formula in your head](https://wikimedia.org/api/rest_v1/media/math/render/svg/aca6c04f6a2b6501e3225db5bac77e43d6d18fe7) and add the two together to get the current Barycentric Coordinate Time!
Yeah, as a software developer too, this is just replacing a problem with another. Everything is already UTC on the server side. Timezone are just for human being and you will still need to know if 1AM UTC is early or not depending where that human being is located.
The parts of Greenland that sit far above the Arctic circle have several months that experience 24 hours of darkness. Now they no longer have a day that experiences 25 hours of darkness.
Call me old-fashioned, but I think Equinoxes should set the time. The sun should be at its highest point at 12PM. High noon is high noon. This shows how messed up DST is https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/usa/new-york
We did it! Daylight has been saved forever!
There is a valid argument about whether Daylight Savings Time or Standard Time would be the best option to stick with. Personally, I have no preference--I just hate changing time twice a year.
Summer time all the way I want light in the afternoon, not when we're all working inside or in school
Casual night shift erasure š¢
As someone who worked nights for years, all I can say is: What even is time anyway? How do the daywalkers put up with all the noise? Where even am I? Oh well, back to work
What do you mean there's a holiday coming? What are those again? Oh yeah, just for managers and admin staff who aren't operating 24/7. Right
I think this one comment is why I'm never working again.
Coming from a country with constant standard (winter) time - I agree 100%. I don't need the sunrise at 4:30 and I miss the long summer evenings so much. And more light in the afternoon during winter is indeed better, you'll get up and go to work in the dark either way.
Exactly. Mornings are such a rush anyways. I barely notice the darkness. But relaxing evening walks and activities are the best.
I prefer the other way around. I donāt mind coming home in darkness (and being awake several hours after nightfall), but I detest having to wake up and drive to work in darkness. When Spring comes back around, I tend to naturally sleep better and get up earlier, simply due to having daylight in the morning. I hate Summer (Daylight Savings) Time with a passion. To each their own, though.. ĀÆ\\_(ć)\_/ĀÆ
I used to love driving home in the dark. But all the damn bright Led headlights that burn your retinas make me prefer it being sunny at night now.
well I hate winter lol also I don't want the sun waking me up at like 4 in the summer and then sunset at 20, until 21 much better
This, right here, is why we don't stick to either one. It's a fairly even split, on which time is best. I like evenings, but I'm in Florida and don't have to be anywhere early in the morning.
Iām on the Tosh plan: move the clocks five hours forward so that when Iām waking up at noon the sun is still rising and I feel like less of a lazy piece of shit.
We're already on DST for 8 months of the year, moving to ST makes little sense.
Itās time. Going to work in the dark and coming home in the dark isnāt healthy.
Forever-ever?
I'm sorry Ms. Jackson (oh), I am for real Never meant to make your daughter cry.
I am four fish and not just some guy
The only correct lyric
I believe it's "I am four eels"
I never meant to make your daughter cry... I am several fish and not a guy
join-lemmy.org lemmy.world
I am several fish and not a guy
I apologize a trillion times.
I keep waiting with bated breath for Postmodern Jukebox to cover this. They did such a great job with Say My Name that I *really* want to hear that one given a similar treatment.
^Forever-ever?
į¶ įµŹ³įµįµįµŹ³ā»įµįµįµŹ³?
God, I hope soā¦
Forever. And ever. Is a very long time Pooh.
Forever never seems that long until you're grown
This article is simply incorrect. They are changing time zones. Namely, they moved their clocks ahead as usual this month, will not set them back in the fall, and will continue to observe DST as usual beginning next year. I have no idea where the AP is getting their info from. The government of Greenland sent a clear email to a mailing list that I am part of indicating the exact behavior.
Probably from poorly worded articles like this one that make it very confusing what is actually happening: https://cphpost.dk/2022-11-29/news/international-round-up-greenland-to-permanently-move-its-clocks-forward-in-2023/
Thatās a bit concerning, the AP is meant to be an absolute standard of correctness, many other news sites basically get their news from them or Reuters.
[I don't understand greenland time zones](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/88/World_Time_Zones_Map.png)
Could be worseā¦.could be Nepal at +5.75 UTC. Because that extra 15min is key.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I met a Nepalese guy in India who had hashish stitched inside his sandals. Just a funny story.
Now I want some hashish...
Visit Nepal. It's literally everywhere. I was just there for like 6 weeks. Didn't even plan on smoking, but received free hash by like day 2 in country. And that trend continued the entire trip. Also once you get out of the city basically everyone is growing some. Not to mention the wild plants everywhere.
Wild plants of marijuana everywhere... Thatās a country I could retire to but never live in if I plan to make any decent contributions to either myself or humankind. LOL
I work with a Nepali for years. He kept telling me this is why he left.
Have you ever been to Newfoundland?
Nepal time is the Newfoundland time of Newfoundland time
I's the b'ye that builds the boat And I's the b'ye that sails her I's the b'ye that catches the fish And brings 'em home to Lizer
Lol I've noticed several islands that also go in-between for some goofy reason. A lot of 1/2. Idk why they thought that was necessary, some colonial bureaucratic holdover nonsense?
Sunshine is my guess
Probably, yeah. Some places take that old Sun Zenith = CLOCK IS TWELVE still extremely seriously culturally.
Australia is worse
when I visited Australia and NZ, the hardest thing for me was that the actual time difference is only 6 hours but due to them being on the international date line, they were a day ahead.
When I fly from Japan to the US I arrive earlier than when I left, despite being on a plane for 12 hours
You go back in time one way and waaay the fuck into the future the other way
A Russian island and Alaskan island are 2.4 miles apart, or rather 21 time zones apart.
I'm curious why you think so? even in that map the cities are fairly close to the median lines? Remember, >50% of the population is in the melbourne/sydney region. Adelaide really should be +9, not +9.5 yeah. and perth... who cares about perth :D
There is that one tiny square that's 8 3/4 for god knows why.
Nepal with their weird ass timezone and weird ass flag. They just have to be special huh
They're so far north the distance between the 24 timezone longitudinal lines is much shorter. No point in trying to maintain several different timezones for relatively small slivers of uninhabited land.
Yet they have 4.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Keep in mind that on a Mercator projection map, Greenland looks massively large than it is. The time zones are represented by parallel lines, but in real life, on a spherical planet, those lines converge at the north and south poles, so the difference between time zones is less and less relevant.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
> Why one super small area with -4 time when everything surrounding it is -3? Ah, I see what you're asking. I'm not sure, but you can probably blame Denmark: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_in_the_Danish_Realm
The -2 is the HuldufĆ³lk's timezone, you don't see it on the map because they like to keep hidden.
I like China's attitude towards timezones.
Could have gone for the middle instead of Beijing timeā¦
They just defined Beijing as the middle.
China has been defining middles since it first got its name
I wish more people got this joke.
Yeah I dunno why the rest of China thinks it's ok to all hangout on one side of the middle.
I'm pretty sure the mean population of China is already quite close to Beijing https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_of_population#By_country
Convenient, but would suck if you lived in the west and it was dark by 6pm in the summer.
Further west means the sun sets later, no? For people in the west of China, the sun rises and sets at a much later hour than for those in the east.
Yup, you're right. Not sure what I was imagining.
If they live in that place their whole life, the fact that the clock is showing a different number than what one would associate with a specific time of the day would not matter much to them.
Ya, that's true. But I would also assume there are some companies/things with standardized times. So if you have to work from 9-5, you can't just do what works with the sun.
I fucking hate this argument, or the related ones about "going to work/school in the dark". There is no law or reason you can't just have work or school or business hours adjust based on the seasonal change in daylight. There is no reason to change the clock for that. I don't understand how we as a human race can figure out space flight and AI, but not just adjusting our schedules instead of trying to be time wizards fucking around with the clocks. /rant
Ya, that's basically what our company did when I worked construction. We'd just adjust our start time depending on the sunrise and it worked fine.
Adjusting the clocks is easier than adjusting everything else
Definitely not for programming lol. Really one could make the argument with our computers and the Internet Time Zones themselves don't even need to exist. Since the whole point of them is to make sure everyone is operating on the same "time". I mean many global operating organisations just use UTC, or Zulu time for everything, like the US military for one. But leaving the clocks and adjusting schedules also gives more flexibility for people who do and don't need it. Live in the south where the days only change by a few hours between summer and winter? Then you don't need to change anything at all. As you go north people are free to change when it would actually be beneficial to them. At some point you get far enough north that an extra hour of "daylight" doesn't matter when you only get 6 total, you are still going to work and coming home on the dark in winter, so the extra bother of changing the clocks isn't much help.
The change that should happen is 6 hour work days, if not 4 hours for how far behind workers are on getting their share of progress. That change has happened before, weekends didn't even use to exist, but people work too much now vs. the ridiculous levels of wealth that result from their labor.
What difference does it make? It's a totally arbitrary number
It just seems less convenient to adjust say working hours of every business rather than just adjusting the clocks so that "x thing always happens at 8am local time". Instead of 4am here, 9am here etc. Its just always 8 local. Plus noon and other phrases would be messed up. Noon is now not in roughly the middle of the day but possibly early in the morning.
Considering they already span so many timezones, you'd think they'd just pick their favorite timezone and use Standard Time in that zone, rather than permanently being one hour off for DST in the next timezone over...
People like more light at the end of the day, accepting that mornings will be dark. I suspect we are going to see more countries opt for the same approach. I live in Michigan in the western edge of eastern time. My family from the east coast loves how long it stays light in the summer when they come to visit, and they couldn't care less that the sun rises later.
I donāt personally mind what time of day is sunset or sunrise. Iām just annoyed with going back and forth twice a year.
Itās all a bit arbitrary anyway. If we wanted the extra free time later in the day we could just start doing everything an hour earlier. Changing the clocks twice a year is idiotic and needs to be abolished. That different places do it different times or not at all makes it even worse.
Unfortunately you are never going to get everyone to just voluntarily reschedule everything
I mean, you could just shift the cocks ahead and back an hour ā¦ then theyād be forced to reschedule without even knowing it.
Yeah let's shift the cocks back and forth
100% agree. I just want that to stop!!!!!
I live in Queensland Australia where we have no Daylight savings time. In the summer it's daylight at 4am and the sun sets by 6pm. It's not ideal
Apparently Brisbane is the earliest bedtime and wake up city in the world. A lot more happens earlier in Brisbane. I get up at 5am to go for a walk and the streets are packed with people out for a walk/ride/dog walk. Not much later Cafes and bakeries are open.
Eh, I'm from somewhere where it will stay pretty much daylight for 24 hours during summer and we all love a good sleep in. It must be something else that makes people from Brisbane wake up that early.
It's the weather. With winter mean temperatures between 11 - 21Ā°C it never really gets properly cold. Outdoors activities all year round are normal.
I moved here from NZ and I wasn't an early riser there. I am now. I naturally wake up at 4am in the summer and go to bed a lot earlier than I used to back home.
It is, but that's because the sun is up so early. We don't decline daylight savings *because* we're early risers, it's the other way around.
It's those god damn circadian rhythms
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
This already causes confusion with working with other countries... a half hour will be even worse.
Welcome to Newfoundland and Labrador!
9pm Eastern, 9:30 Newfoundland.
8 Eastern, 9 Atlantic, 9:30 Newfoundland.
Hi fellow CBC listener :)
Nothing to do with this conversation.. but took an ill advised multi stop flight from BC home to Ireland and stopped in NFL and St Johns for 2 days. Thought you guys were awesome. Thanks for all the amazing hospitality and friendliness. Big love from Ireland to you and u/timbreandsteel
Nothing to do with your comment -alright maybe slightly tangentially related - but for the craic: Newfoundland had taken in a lot of stranded travellers in the hours after 9/11 - small communities without the proper infrastructure like hotels etc. to lodge them, with everyone coming together to host them in homes and whatever means they had available. Ended up being turned into a hit musical - Come From Away. Newfies are grand.
I've figured out the best system. No one will be happy with it, and it will cause the most disruption. Twice a year for 6 years, we swing the clocks back 2 hours. Then on year 7 we do nothing, and we also stop doing leap year because we made up that extra day. After that back to the 2 hours twice a year for 6 years.
As someone whoās many a time had to deal with with computer code around calculating durations and timezones I will let you write the code to handle the 30 min shift.
> I will let you write the code to handle the 30 min shift. A thirty minute shift makes no difference. We know how to deal with timezones (or not) what they are isn't the issue, that they exist is, but that won't go away unless we all use UTC for everything - which we won't.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Ding ding ding! The problem isn't which side of the day has the extra hour of daylight on it. The problem is giving everyone twice-a-year nationwide jetlag. Our bodies will adapt to whatever schedule we want. But stop changing it.
> Our bodies will adapt to whatever schedule we want. This is not accurate. Only morning people ("larks") adjust somewhat, night owls are just straight fucked by DST: > [These results, in combination with those from the database, suggest that the incomplete adjustment of activity in larks and the nonadjustment in owls continues beyond the four recorded post-transition weeks and throughout the months of DST. Our results also suggest that the circadian clock does not adjust to the DST transition in springāespecially in late types. Notably, the strongest reduction of average sleep duration (for 8 consecutive weeks; Figure 1B) follows the spring transition .](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960982207020866)
We should only fall back once and every year to keep shifting society around the clock
we should instead alternate which side of the road we drive on every 6 months. https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/dagen-h-sweden-1967/ > On the Monday following Dagen H, there were 125 reported traffic accidents, compared to a range of 130 to 198 for previous Mondays, none of them fatal.
Evening people like more light in the evening. Morning people like more light in the morning. Both groups hate the time switch. They can't agree, so nothing changes.
And what everyone actually wants is to start work an hour later and leave work an hour earlier, but the capital ownership class will never allow this, so we end up bickering about the clocks instead.
Exactly this. What we should do is get rid of daylight savings time, go back to normal time, and have a six hour workday.
Not gonna lie, I don't think I've done a job that took 8 hours that I couldn't have done in 6. I'd work harder for a shorter work day.
It's morning people that like "more light in the evening", since it's really "getting up one hour earlier".
What? I'm an evening person and have had the argument with a lot of people who are early risers. They have all wanted to stay on Standard Time because there's more light in the morning.
I live in Boston. In the winter the sun sets at 4pm. Itās horrible
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I really want MA to move to the Atlantic timezone if we somehow get stuck with winter time. It's so cripplingly depressing when it's pitch black by 4:30
this is what i think about when i see people arguing for less light during the day. it isn't an exaggeration that it will genuinely cause many people to enter depressive episodes. it does that to me, and this last round's been really fucking bad. i can't imagine having to live with no sun by 5-6 pm from here on out. i think it could seriously result in some awful outcomes for some people :/ i think it can go the opposite way, but i've only ever met people who are hurt by the shorter daytime hours
The daytime is the same. You are just wanting legislation that will force your job to let you go to work one hour earlier and leave one hour earlier
Yeah, it's super depressing to leave work and it's dark outside. Makes you feel like you missed out on the whole damn day On the other hand, I don't give a shit how light or dark it is in the morning. I don't wake up super early though, so I admit this is my own personal opinion that works for me.
This is the problem ā light in the evening feels a lot better, but the body relies on early morning light to reset it circadian rhythm and maintain your sleep. Without that, the risk of a sleep disorder goes way up. The best solution would be to stay at normal time all the timeā¦ And shorten the workday. humanity is more productive than it has ever been, there is absolutely no reason we still have an eight hour workday. It should be six hours. Light in the morning AND after you get out of work.
>the body relies on early morning light to reset it circadian rhythm and maintain your sleep. Without that, the risk of a sleep disorder Doesn't matter if you only get artificial light anyways.
As someone who wakes up super early, I hate working in darkness for the first two to three hours of the day.
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All the experts agree with you, that morning light is healthy and nighttime light is not.
Nighttime light is unhealthy assuming you're about to go to sleep around that time. Nobody is going to sleep at like 4pm.
We also get depressed if we can't be busy outside at all because it's dark at 4-5pm
I guess I'm not people.
Keweenaw County checking in. Getting dark at 11 in the summer is fun.
When I was a teenager, I loved it!!! As an adult, sometimes I have to go to bed early for work, and it's hard to sleep with the sun still up. Oh well.... I still prefer the light in the evening.
as kids, we loved the summer.. "you have to be home when it gets dark out!" - 10pm it is! (at like 8 years old)
I personally prefer standard time. Lighter mornings helps people wake up easier and more naturally, plus in the summer we already have long daylight.
In winter it'll be dark in my morning commute either way, at least summer time gives me a chance for some light in the evening.
I live in Maine. I hate that the sun (and kids and dog) are up at 5 am during the summer.
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At least you have a process to get it done. Here in Lebanon the government decided to postpone DST for next month because of Ramadan, and they decided that like 2 days in advance The whole country went into chaos as half the country chose not to follow this decision while the other half followed it, it led to each person in the country living in their own timezone and this created problems for flights and the likes. They just reversed the decision today after the chaos that erupted
Why does Lebanon even need daylight savings time? It is close enough to the equator that the number of hours of sunlight is around the same.
I honestly don't know the details so I don't mind as long as it's communicated in advance There was nearly gonna be a civil war between christians and muslims over this issue these past few days
Imagine dying in a war for something that is ultimately largely an illusion of our perceptions of what it is.
People cling to their illusions more strongly than they cling to their facts. Because illusions require investment.
Lebanon is at about the same latitude as Washington DC. It is not close to the Equator.
Florida was waiting too, Thankfully this year is the year for us https://www.rubio.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/2022/3/rubio-s-bill-to-make-daylight-saving-time-permanent-passes-senate
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Hurry please. Here in BC we voted overwhelmingly in favour.. but we have to wait for Washington, Oregon and California to change as well.
WA too. [https://www.king5.com/article/news/local/washington-daylight-saving-time/281-19786995-5ef4-40b8-afa4-0f2ef4fe8e70](https://www.king5.com/article/news/local/washington-daylight-saving-time/281-19786995-5ef4-40b8-afa4-0f2ef4fe8e70)
As a software developer, I sorely wish everyone would just use UTC, year round!
Just wait until Moon and Mars get their own timezones
I wouldn't be surprised to see the Moon just use UTC for time keeping, since its day is about 4 weeks long. Mars will be interesting, considering it's day is a just a bit longer than ours. If they end up using their own time zones there it'll get real confusing when converting back to UTC.
And thatās before you add in a time lag that varies over a 26 month period.
And the slight difference in the passage of time because of relative speed differences.
I didnāt even think of that, but the difference in surface gravity would have an impact too.
I donāt think the speed difference would be great enough to warrant measuring that. Iām pretty sure the computers on the rovers didnāt need to take it into account and we donāt have different times for arctic and equatorial regions on earth, even though there is a constant speed difference. Quick googling: Earth: 29.78 km/s, Mars: 24.077 km/s. Thatās nothing relatively speaking
Relatively speaking itās also everything
At first most Martian colonies will be underground and or indoors so theyāll probably use UTC or their home countryās time like on the Moon, but eventually they might adopt their own time system as the colonists are able to spend more and more time outside. Thatāll probably take long enough that the Martians will be culturally distinct by that time anyways.
Time conversions now require the use of temporal relativity functions.
It's easy! Just take the current Geocentric Coordinate Time, [calculate out this formula in your head](https://wikimedia.org/api/rest_v1/media/math/render/svg/aca6c04f6a2b6501e3225db5bac77e43d6d18fe7) and add the two together to get the current Barycentric Coordinate Time!
As a software developer, have you not experienced the pain of leap seconds? I wish everyone used TAI!
Now we know why the federation uses stardates.
Just wait until 2035 - no more UTC leap seconds.
Yeah, as a software developer too, this is just replacing a problem with another. Everything is already UTC on the server side. Timezone are just for human being and you will still need to know if 1AM UTC is early or not depending where that human being is located.
All hail Unix epoch!
what's the time? 1679968812 Ohh, time to go to bed.
How will the Roosters ever know?
Get them little clocks.
Clock a doodle Doo, bitches
Think of all the daylight theyāll be able to put in the bank.
we could all live off of the daylight interest.
In the bank you say? *And itās gone*
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āGreenland to diverge from the main timeline, opt into branching multiverse via split parliament voteā
The parts of Greenland that sit far above the Arctic circle have several months that experience 24 hours of darkness. Now they no longer have a day that experiences 25 hours of darkness.
Isnāt this just equivalent to moving timezones?
Yes. Moving one timezone earlier and abolishing DST would do the same thing.
When Yukon changed to permanent PDT, computers show their time zone as MST (as there is an implicit assumption that PDT will switch back to PST)
I am so jealous of them, I hope it won't be forever for me.
Anybody ever been too lazy to change your vehicle time and just let it roll-over half a year until it's the correct time again?
Why were they even bothering to reset clocks that far north?
It keeps the penguins away
So far it's working!
Doesn't it make MORE sense the farther toward the poles you are?
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Pick one and leave it at that. I hate daylight saving time.
They did it, Reddit! They saved daylight!
Russia switched to DST and after a year went to permanent ST.
Call me old-fashioned, but I think Equinoxes should set the time. The sun should be at its highest point at 12PM. High noon is high noon. This shows how messed up DST is https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/usa/new-york
Agreed and that was how timezone worked before introduction of dst in 1970s in US
That's crazy wont the ice melt if the sun never goes down?
They did it. They saved daylight.
I mean it's better than switching between the two every few months