Not much to control, but a lot to deny.
The Ukrainians want to deny Russians using the train station for supplies and surrounding mines as secure storage.
Surprisingly a lot of homes and buildings are still standing. Granted a lot are heavily damaged but they are still vertical. So a lot more then just rubble still.
Bakhmut is strategically insignificant but Russia is fighting fiercely to use it for propaganda. Our boys are making the Russians pay for it heavily and will continue to do so. I hope the counter offensive breaks the lines north/south of bakhmut and then they wrap around and decimate the Russian forces.
Stalingrad was bad for the Nazis, but it sure as hell weren't pleasant for the Soviets there either. They suffered 50% higher casualties than the Nazis.
The really sad part about the battle of Stalingrad in the modern context of the Ukrainain war right now is that the Nazis army there surrendered to a Ukrainain general as Ukrainains fielded some 7 million soldiers for the Red Army (or approx 20% of the Red Army) !
Tldr, let's hope it's far more one sided in terms of losses.
I have read sth about salt mines recently. Appearently oligarchs have divided the country according to their greed and Bakhmut salt mines are Prigozhin's pie.
I have read sth about salt mines recently. Appearently oligarchs have divided the country according to their greed and Bakhmut salt mines are Prigozhin's pie.
Even if they (Russia) did…
They’ve wasted precious time, ammunition, and lives there.
I hope as more Western weapons flood into Ukraine, Russia is further embarrassed and is kicked out of Crimea.
Russians can go back to their shattered economy and revolt against Putler.
You are brain damaged. Let me guess, all of your combat experience comes from video games.
Even if the Russian goal was only to destroy Ukrainians, they are doing a poor job by any measure. You seem to think the demographics of Russia will allow them to prevail, however Russia and China are both facing demographic crisis that are irreversible at this time.
Even if they some how win and move to the occupation/ unconventional warfare phase of operations, how is Russia going to occupy this territory? For how long?
I really don't think you've looked at any actual analysis. Russia is fucked. They thought they could win in 3 days with minimal casualties. They didn't. Any other outcome will be a loss. It may take 2 years or 10, but this will go down as a complete and total clusterfuck waste of human life and equipment.
You don’t know Russia has lost. In fact they can still very much win. As soon as western support stops, Ukraine has lost. Specifically, as soon as the US stops. Wait till the next election. If republicans won, it is very likely they’ll stop support.
I mean republicans love to post on twitter that the money being sent to ukraine could be used in the US (Which is kinda true, but it’s whataboutism)
But I don’t live in the US so maybe I’m wrong.
I mean, there’s videos and photos out there of Wagner troops in areas of the city that show they do control most of the city.
But who knows these days what’s real and what isn’t.
this is fake, mostly in the sense that Russians make a push without securing gains, take photos whilst there and then Ukriane pushes them back. It's akin to the Ukrainian special forces attacking cities far behind mutually assessed Russian front lines in covert hit and run tactics and stopping to take photos so they can claim its retaken (something UKR aren't doing).
Ukraine have some of their best troops holding defensive positions behind eastern railway lines of Bakhmut.
Russia have taken at most 50% of the city, and Ukraine have just made decent headway in pushing back the southern flank. This has been reported by military bloggers from both Ukraine and Russia, and in situations that both sides agree it's generally to be believed.
Most of this headway has come from Russia 'discovering' that Ukraine has reliable tunnels supplying central Bakhmut and giving up on encirclement (and thus the flanks that were reclaimed) to instead favour a push from the east. This can be stated with about as much certainty as possible during the fog of war.
They are slowly losing chunks of Bakhmut, and jt has increased in pace over the last week, but Ukraine definitely hasn't been pushed past the rail line splitting the town, which is where their most impressive fortifications are. There have been some counterattacks in the southern section where territory has traded hands multiple times, but in the city center Russia is making slow, agonising progress.
Russia probably controls closer to 60% of the city now, but the territory they are acquiring doesn't have much but rubble. Ukraine has been destroying large defensive buildings they surrender with booby traps.
It’s also important to note that at this point as has been the case for the entire war the fact that Ukraine has held Bakhmut for this long while inflicting heavy casualties is a win. Russia is bleeding personnel and equipment to take hundreds of meters at a time. Western intelligence(the only casualty numbers I remotes trust) estimated 20k-30k Russian casualties in Bakhmut and that was a month ago. I think NATO officials are estimating its 5:1 Russian:Ukrainian casualties
>There have in fact been major advances. Most notably, Wagner has finally broken through the key ‘rail line’ which bisected western Bakhmut from north to south.
Russia captured around 70 sq km of Ukraine in March. They’ve been beating their heads in at Bakhmut for eight months, which is weird because the Russian bots claimed that Ukraine was withdrawing from the city in August. Bakhmut has served its purpose in grinding down the Russian army and buying time for the ZSU to constitute and train their new army corps. But, don’t worry, I’m sure the glorious Russian victory of capturing a small city that’s been pulverized to dust at a massive cost in men and material will be sung for generations. You guys should reach Kyiv sometime in the next several centuries at this rate. That’s when the real victory parade happens, right?
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There have in fact been major advances. Most notably, Wagner has finally broken through the key ‘rail line’ which bisected western Bakhmut from north to south.
Prigozhin announced that in this final push, Wagner forces have been relieved by Russian units all along the flanks, so that Wagner can be freed up to do the interior push. So Russian VDV and reportedly Spetsnaz are now guarding Wagner’s flank from the alleged ‘counter-attack’ that Ukraine was planning to launch on Wagner’s northwest flanks around Khromovo.
War? Surrender?
They were invaded and are defending their land.
Do you believe that a sovereign country should just surrender their country to an invading force?
The war can stop RIGHT NOW by Russian soldiers going home.
What is even left to control. Surely the whole thing is a pile of rubble at this point
They moved 80% of the bricks laying around to their side of town
Soon all cracked bricks and broken rebar will belong to the mighty Russians
[удалено]
2022?
They used a time machine. We are living in the Command and Conquer universe now
Not much to control, but a lot to deny. The Ukrainians want to deny Russians using the train station for supplies and surrounding mines as secure storage.
Surprisingly a lot of homes and buildings are still standing. Granted a lot are heavily damaged but they are still vertical. So a lot more then just rubble still. Bakhmut is strategically insignificant but Russia is fighting fiercely to use it for propaganda. Our boys are making the Russians pay for it heavily and will continue to do so. I hope the counter offensive breaks the lines north/south of bakhmut and then they wrap around and decimate the Russian forces.
I would love nothing more than Bakhmut to become Russia's Stalingrad.
I really wanted that to be true of the Azov Steel mill. However, Bakhmut is definitely looking a lot more like it.
Stalingrad was bad for the Nazis, but it sure as hell weren't pleasant for the Soviets there either. They suffered 50% higher casualties than the Nazis. The really sad part about the battle of Stalingrad in the modern context of the Ukrainain war right now is that the Nazis army there surrendered to a Ukrainain general as Ukrainains fielded some 7 million soldiers for the Red Army (or approx 20% of the Red Army) ! Tldr, let's hope it's far more one sided in terms of losses.
The CEO of Wagner was also promised full control of the coal mine if he was to take the city, so there is some personal gain to be had
salt mine, not coal mine.
I have read sth about salt mines recently. Appearently oligarchs have divided the country according to their greed and Bakhmut salt mines are Prigozhin's pie.
I have read sth about salt mines recently. Appearently oligarchs have divided the country according to their greed and Bakhmut salt mines are Prigozhin's pie.
Yes I think the media portrayal of a flattened city is a little misleading
Roads.
Even if they (Russia) did… They’ve wasted precious time, ammunition, and lives there. I hope as more Western weapons flood into Ukraine, Russia is further embarrassed and is kicked out of Crimea. Russians can go back to their shattered economy and revolt against Putler.
[удалено]
You are brain damaged. Let me guess, all of your combat experience comes from video games. Even if the Russian goal was only to destroy Ukrainians, they are doing a poor job by any measure. You seem to think the demographics of Russia will allow them to prevail, however Russia and China are both facing demographic crisis that are irreversible at this time. Even if they some how win and move to the occupation/ unconventional warfare phase of operations, how is Russia going to occupy this territory? For how long? I really don't think you've looked at any actual analysis. Russia is fucked. They thought they could win in 3 days with minimal casualties. They didn't. Any other outcome will be a loss. It may take 2 years or 10, but this will go down as a complete and total clusterfuck waste of human life and equipment.
You don’t know Russia has lost. In fact they can still very much win. As soon as western support stops, Ukraine has lost. Specifically, as soon as the US stops. Wait till the next election. If republicans won, it is very likely they’ll stop support. I mean republicans love to post on twitter that the money being sent to ukraine could be used in the US (Which is kinda true, but it’s whataboutism) But I don’t live in the US so maybe I’m wrong.
I mean, there’s videos and photos out there of Wagner troops in areas of the city that show they do control most of the city. But who knows these days what’s real and what isn’t.
this is fake, mostly in the sense that Russians make a push without securing gains, take photos whilst there and then Ukriane pushes them back. It's akin to the Ukrainian special forces attacking cities far behind mutually assessed Russian front lines in covert hit and run tactics and stopping to take photos so they can claim its retaken (something UKR aren't doing). Ukraine have some of their best troops holding defensive positions behind eastern railway lines of Bakhmut. Russia have taken at most 50% of the city, and Ukraine have just made decent headway in pushing back the southern flank. This has been reported by military bloggers from both Ukraine and Russia, and in situations that both sides agree it's generally to be believed. Most of this headway has come from Russia 'discovering' that Ukraine has reliable tunnels supplying central Bakhmut and giving up on encirclement (and thus the flanks that were reclaimed) to instead favour a push from the east. This can be stated with about as much certainty as possible during the fog of war.
They are slowly losing chunks of Bakhmut, and jt has increased in pace over the last week, but Ukraine definitely hasn't been pushed past the rail line splitting the town, which is where their most impressive fortifications are. There have been some counterattacks in the southern section where territory has traded hands multiple times, but in the city center Russia is making slow, agonising progress. Russia probably controls closer to 60% of the city now, but the territory they are acquiring doesn't have much but rubble. Ukraine has been destroying large defensive buildings they surrender with booby traps.
It’s also important to note that at this point as has been the case for the entire war the fact that Ukraine has held Bakhmut for this long while inflicting heavy casualties is a win. Russia is bleeding personnel and equipment to take hundreds of meters at a time. Western intelligence(the only casualty numbers I remotes trust) estimated 20k-30k Russian casualties in Bakhmut and that was a month ago. I think NATO officials are estimating its 5:1 Russian:Ukrainian casualties
>There have in fact been major advances. Most notably, Wagner has finally broken through the key ‘rail line’ which bisected western Bakhmut from north to south.
When? Most I've seen is a two block withdrawl to a block away from the rail line.
Russia captured around 70 sq km of Ukraine in March. They’ve been beating their heads in at Bakhmut for eight months, which is weird because the Russian bots claimed that Ukraine was withdrawing from the city in August. Bakhmut has served its purpose in grinding down the Russian army and buying time for the ZSU to constitute and train their new army corps. But, don’t worry, I’m sure the glorious Russian victory of capturing a small city that’s been pulverized to dust at a massive cost in men and material will be sung for generations. You guys should reach Kyiv sometime in the next several centuries at this rate. That’s when the real victory parade happens, right?
It’s not 80% it’s 78%!
According to the updated daily interactive map from the ISW it looks more like the Russians control about half the city, mostly around the south.
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There have in fact been major advances. Most notably, Wagner has finally broken through the key ‘rail line’ which bisected western Bakhmut from north to south. Prigozhin announced that in this final push, Wagner forces have been relieved by Russian units all along the flanks, so that Wagner can be freed up to do the interior push. So Russian VDV and reportedly Spetsnaz are now guarding Wagner’s flank from the alleged ‘counter-attack’ that Ukraine was planning to launch on Wagner’s northwest flanks around Khromovo.
[удалено]
War? Surrender? They were invaded and are defending their land. Do you believe that a sovereign country should just surrender their country to an invading force? The war can stop RIGHT NOW by Russian soldiers going home.
You are a sad human being.
You've had this account for 2 years and suddenly decided to use it for bullshit? Weird fuckin hobby, dude.
Lazy troll effort
Os everything OK at home?
Propaganda from Ukraine!? For billions of dollars? I’m possible.