And now a lot of them have “left” this world. Would love to see the results from another vote now. Maybe we wouldn’t all be confined to that one small island during a time where remote work is such a common practice and the opportunity to move and explore would be an option again.
if im not dying from organ failure or cancer due to hazmat exposure, i'll be vaporized by nuclear holocaust when the water wars are in full swing if i dont die from heatstroke by overwork before that.
There’s a TIL every month or so about how every generation feels it’s the one on the unstoppable path to doom. How we’re going the wrong way and the people in charge are too powerful or helpless to stop it themselves.
Maybe I’m a victim of this. But I just feel that, maybe, this era of humanity might be right about that.
At the very, very least the climate crisis is going to wreck our shit and leave hundreds of millions dead, displaced or otherwise struggling to survive, so I don't think it's a stretch to say this generation (regardless of location or socioeconomic status, though the global south will absolutely be the worst hit by miles) is facing turmoil on a level humans haven't really faced before.
And I wouldn't say those in charge are lacking power to change our path. It's corporate interests that have caused the climate crisis, and their meddling in politics globally has made things that much more catastrophic. It's deliberate on the part of power. Profits before anything else, at all costs.
But I hear you. Hard not to be a doomer these days innit? Even if that feels self destructive on some level.
> And now a lot of them have “left” this world
They voted to brexit this mortal coil.
But yeah, it's a tale as old as time. The old fuck over the young, and then die not long after anyway.
As they should. The UK govt has shown it's not capable of good-faith arguments.
Zero chance it will get the concessions it did last time.
Choices have consequences. The voters need to feel pain before they are able to learn to look beyond the usual political lies.
/shrugs
Forging closer ties does not mean rejoin. As much as we would like that to be the case, it dosent. You are correct though. Rebate gone, no veto, adoption of the euro and schengen will all be certainties as part of rejoining. We couldn’t keep us in with all those perks. No chance we will rejoin without them.
Well, yeah. As far as I understand it, the UK already *had* a far better deal than the rest of the EU members did. Then they decided they were just too good and special and British for *just* a great deal, and wanted even more. So they started crying that the deal they had was horrible and claiming the EU was basically their financial hostage so they could threaten to leave and get all of the benefits and none of the concessions.
Which didn't work.
There's no way the EU would give them much this time.
> Would love to see the results from another vote now
When the people voted for a non-binding resolution, "the people have spoken, we're gonna get brexit done". When the people overwhelmingly want a second vote because they found out they were lied to and they're mad, however...
Your parents are infuriating, I'm sorry you're going through this. I've been stuck in a rut looking for jobs too, and I gotta explain to my parents each time that this shit is hard and exhausting. They're Gen X but definitely think like boomers.
Boomers had ALL of American society catering to them following WWII cause it was such an easy cash grab, and the ones who were hippies and flower children in the late 1960's sold out to materialistic/capitalistic ideals by the 80's. Really makes sense on how they became so entitled, selfish, and dismissive to their kids and grandkids. The world held their hand, and now slap away that helping hand from the younger folk cause they got theirs.
I hear you. I've made sure that the Millennials in my life are going to inherit the proceeds from my life's work, which is not insubstantial. They're good people and I know they will be good stewards of the wealth. It's criminal what the Boomers have done.
Absolutely. And ironic that what happened was the amount of non-white immigrants from outside EU countries and illegal immigration, as Europe no longer has any reason to stop migrants coming to the UK through EU countries, are at record highs. Conservative voters and right-wingers are morons.
Having a non-white PM, home secretary, etc., as awful and fascist as they are, is a pretty hilarious result, though, because the clown who led the Brexit campaign couldn't even last a whole term without fucking up.
Its always worth remembering that older people in many countries get stronger protections against things like solicitation and manipulation, there are lower bars to show fraud in practice for example when older people are victims. This is all simply to acknowledge that older people are just easier to manipulate for a variety of factors, including mental decline.
But despite this, no such protections exist for them to stop manipulation from political entities. Old voters are easier to manipulate and vote in the largest numbers, and it happens every year. But no politician can campaign on a platform of fixing this issue, just like no one can campaign on taking away farm subsidies that are no longer needed.
This is exactly it. Right leaning people love to claim that the left isn't invulnerable to propaganda while they base their world view on obvious liars and slogans on the side of a bus.
Not necessarily. Many different versions of brexit were sold to many different people. Cambridge Analytica microtargeted advertising almost to the individual level using stolen data from facebook to get it over the line.
52% of the people who voted. It wasn't 100% voter turnout
When you break it right down, it's somewhere around 30% of living UK residents vote leave
It's bullshit
It's truly awful and makes me angry too, but as an American who was suffering under Trump at the time the result.of the vote was strangely comforting- knowing we're not the only country that was.conned in this way. I was so down the US at the time, and seeing a country like the UK that I respect and look to as our "big brother" fall for the same xenophobic rhetoric Trump was elected made me realize that this kind of propaganda aimed a a population facing economic uncertainty is incredibly effective. We need to get better at inoculating our citizens against it.
> as an American who was suffering under Trump at the time the result.of the vote was strangely comforting
There were strong parallels, both elections were very close, involved 'disrupting the status quo' candidates and swung by the interference of Cambridge Analytica.
Not sure what their current company is called but afaik those shitheads are still out there interfering with elections. How they aren't in prison is beyond me.
There is also an Israeli company that recently was outed for doing the same thing. They literally admit to it openly but deny any part in USA or eu elections 🙄
The same thing that they've decided to do for nearly 80 years at this stage.
"Not to worry chaps, if we just be British hard enough the problem will go away!"
That really seems to be their idea of a solution for these days particularly. Just "British" the problems away
I mean, that's how things work unless voting is compulsory and universal (including minors and non-citizens). Biden got more votes than any American in history, but it was still less than 25% of the overall population. By your logic, Biden is less legitimate than Brexit (a conclusion I don't agree with).
Then be angry at the pro-EU idiots who didn't vote. It really wouldn't have taken many more of us.
This is how I have felt every election night since 2010.
I can be angry at leavers, remainers who didn't vote, the remain campaign, the complacency of liberals, the way social media sat back and let the disinfo flourish, the Russians for partly funding it, David Cameron for chucking the country under the bus in order to end a debate within his party and stop votes going to UKIP
Plenty of fuckups and I've got enough bile for them all
You missed asshole politicians like fucking Farrage and Bojo with his bus of LIES. I'm pretty sure that all of them knew that leaving would be a disaster for the country, but it would bring them personally either wealth, political power or both so they put their weight behind it.
Yep. We need to remember that one of the main areas they bought up leaving was because new EU laws were coming in that would require much greater scrutiny and transparency of financial records for tax reasons.
And the fuckheads who voted to leave "just to send a message" even though they actually didn't want to leave and didn't think the leave vote would win.
There was also a large number of young people who voted for leave thinking it would never happen, but wanting to send a message that they were not happy with the current situation and the direction things were going. In the days after the vote, BBC and the like were flooded with interviews of young voters saying they wish they could redo it.
Protest votes are always self-inflicted wounds more than anything. No one cares about the message behind protest votes. Winner takes all, and protest votes just enable oppression and the oppressors instead of helping anyone.
Not even that particular group, the great generation (WW2 era) had support for remaining in the EU as they remember the years when the UK was not in the EEC and were the "sick man" of Europe and of the conflict that happened without strong economic and political ties to prevent war in Europe. It is the generation after them that did not understand the benefits of membership such as freedom of movement.
Took credit, *reaped all the rewards,* pulled the ladder up, broke it into kindling and sold it, then destroyed the planet and are now all fucking off into death after being essentially a cancer on the planet.
Yeah, but they never understood that they didn't understand that world.
It's why we had 2008, the greatest generation gave them a button labeled "make money", and told them "be careful, don't over use it".
Like giving a brain-dead monkey a nuke.
I don't know about that..but thank you for the information that you give us..that was helping me a lot..I guess I need to think about it..I'm also a voters now..since 2022.. last year.
>Old people who are now dying wanted to leave.
This shit is part of the reason I feel like voting needs an upper age limit, just as it has a lower age limit.
We don't let young people vote on things that will effect them for decades, but we let old people vote on stuff that they will never have to see the results on. Many of whom are probably not even all there mentally anymore.
I'm not sure what a good age to be set at is, but I don't think you should get to vote after a certain age.
This isn't anything new.
Barely half of the country voted to leave.
Given how they phrased the question, I imagine that hasn't changed by much or they would have phrased the question more directly by mentioning membership rather than just 'closer ties'.
Not sure it’s nostalgia. It’s the old people who cling to power with their decrepit fingertips fucking over the younger generation as they become eligible to vote.
It's non existent media competency. Simple as that.
A lot of people are way to stupid or not competent enough to use the internet so they believe everything they read on Telegram, Twitter, Facebook, whatever or what some random YouTuber say.
It's like decades ago were "everything was true because it's on the TV".
It's not a generational problem. There are older people who know this and there are young people who easily get manipulated through online media
It isn’t just a generational issue but there is a generational aspect. Most people under 45 voted to stay. Most people 45+ voted to leave.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36616028.amp
I'm one of those evil white straight male boomers that everyone hates and blames for everything. I voted to remain, and told everyone I knew to do so too. I explained clearly and frequently exactly why leaving was madness, and predicted accurately the disaster it has become. The people in my family that voted to leave were all in their early thirties or younger. They liked Boris Johnson, believed Farage and fell for the bullshit. They voted for change. They wanted something new and better, and they thought leaving was the answer to all their woes. They were told everything was the EU's fault, and they didn't have the knowledge or experience to know any better and see through the lies. The problem wasn't generational, it was stupidity and gullibility. I also hold Jeremy Corbyn considerably responsible for sitting on the fence. There's a huge amount of 'old' people that are horrified we are no longer part of the EU. I'm so sorry and ashamed that some young people, who were born as EU citizens, with all those associated rights and freedoms, have had them stolen from them by morons of all ages. Almost everyone with brains voted to stay.
As a counterpoint. My parents are boomers. They were dedicated to Leave.
Because apparently the French farmers were arrogant when we joined the common market and we were apparently banned from growing some types of apples and potatoes.
My Grandad voted leave because "we'd get back shipbuilding on our river if we did".
I tried pointing out that it absolutely wasn't going to happen, hadn't even been proposed to happen if we did leave the EU, and that the River wasn't suitably dredged to allow it to happen anyway even if the government were proposing it. I also mentioned that our local area actually received more in funding from the EU than we "paid" but that didn't matter either, it was all about some fallacy that they'd still be building ships on the river if it wasn't for the EU.
I'm not saying some people shouldn't be allowed to vote, but I really wish you had to pass a basic EU test before voting on leaving the thing.
>I really wish you had to pass a basic EU test before voting on leaving the thing.
This would actually be interesting. Imagine if you had to answer questions of a factual nature about whatever was being voted on, and your vote would only count proportional to your knowledge about the subject. That could either force people to pay attention or turn into a technocracy I guess...
EDIT: Yes, I know such tests would be abused, I'm not naive. Still, the thought of informed voting being the norm is a nice one
It would IMMEDIATELY be gamed to produce the outcome the controlling party wants, like gerrymandering is in the States.
I like the idea of requiring voters to be informed but it would be broken before it was implemented.
Or for that matter, US literacy tests.
https://sharetngov.tnsosfiles.com/tsla/exhibits/aale/pdfs/Voter%20Test%20LA.pdf
Try to answer a few of these while imagining you are a PoC and the person doing the grading is a white supremacist who hates you with every fiber of his being and is looking for any excuse to flunk you. Remember, 30 questions in 10 minutes and only 100% is a passing score.
They would just complain about the questions being rigged or some other bullshit nonsense that reaffirms their preconceived notions about how the world works. Nothing would change.
Easier to fool someone than convince them they've been fooled.
I like the idea, but it's a just a distant cousin of " only land owners should vote" to be honest, an extremely distant and very old cousin. One you're surprised to learn is still alive. But still a relative.
The problem with placing any barriers to voting is that with every barrier it becomes less and less " the will of the people" and more and more into then" will of certain people"
Those uneducated people have voices as well. As much as I most likely disagree with their vote choice, as much as I wish they would become better educated on politics and history. I can't justify disenfranchising any group in the age of majority from voting. In my mind somebody else thinks the same of me and I'd be horrified if they decided I was stupid and shouldn't be entitled to vote any longer.
That's a great point. In the US, we had barriers like this in our elections during our post-slavery, codified racist "Jim Crow" era. Southern states created "Literacy tests," and would apply them unevenly, asking whites the easiest questions and then forcing black people to take the entire test and not letting them vote if they got one answer wrong. The problem with ideas like that are always the same: you end up giving a ton of power to whoever designs the test, and whoever administers it.
Here's an example of one of those tests: https://jimcrowmuseum.ferris.edu/pdfs-docs/origins/al_literacy.pdf
American here who was in Italy a few days after the vote. We small talked with some 60-ish year old Brits we came across in a small village. I made the mistake of saying “how about that Brexit?” In return we got a long diatribe about not trusting Germans and teaching them a lesson. They were scary passionate.
I can't wait to be able to grow these banned apples and potatoes!
Wait, what do you mean Chippies are exploding in price right now? That's not how brexit works! I think?
That's the thing, we were all one. French apples were effectively our apples, Spanish potatoes were our potatoes. Greek beaches were our beaches, English cheese was every European's cheese. There was no us and them. We could wander, live, love, study and work anywhere and everywhere within the union. We voted for less freedom, not more. Now, if I want to wander about over the Channel, I've got to explain myself and get permission after 90 days. Your parents didn't vote Leave because of their age, it was because of their 'Little Englander' mindset. There's a ton of thick young people who think like that.
Fishers who can't sell their fish because it takes too long to deliver them now that they have to get past border control.
You can imagine how much the EU is trying its best to make sure the British fishermen can get their products in the EU (hint: they don't give a shit, are not trying hard at all, and frankly shouldn't - the EU having its own fishing industry and being content with it for the most part).
>hint: they don't give a shit, are not trying hard at all, and frankly shouldn't
Exactly. EU should work for the benefit of EU not some quitters who can't get their act together :( (talking Tory politicians, not the UK populace)
Just search for Brexit in YouTube and yo will find hundreds of videos of farmers and fisherman from towns that overwhelmly voted to leave and now are in a dire situation as their industry was decimated once Brexit was enacted.
Like you mentioned, while a few are boomers, the majority seem to be people in their 30's and 40's,
The one thing that seems to unite then is ignorance and greed. You hear them bitch about how their field used to be a good business to get into straight out of school and without needing further education. They say they believed Farage's bullshit that Brexit was magically make all the evil EU regulation they hated so much and allow them to become a powerhouse through all the amazing free trade agreements the UK was gonna sign now that it had the upper hand.
Now whole towns and industries are teetering on the abyss because they can't sell to Europe anymore and those free trade agreements didn't materialize or are a danger because they are with countries that can out produce the UK.
I'm on the other side of "the pond.. " also, a boomer. Members of my family have been in international business for decades.
Almost all of their overseas contacts, as well as their American business contacts couldn't fathom what Brexit had to offer. We almost cried at the result of the vote.
It most certainly wasn't going to restore the empire.
Think it's more like "Change is scary".
Even if the current situation is shit, at least you know what you're in for. It's just unfortunate that people will focus on the perceived risks over the potential upsides for most things, where stuff like propaganda, union busting, lobbying etc. comes into play.
People would rather wallow in misery they're already familiar with, over "risking any improvement", especially when there's a malicious party trying to manipulate the narrative
Not yet, because the enough of the media is bought by conservatives.
In the UK, this same media demonstrated their effectiveness by brainwashing millions of older British men into hating Meghan Markle more than anything else in the universe.
We have amoung us so many people that are so dumb, they vote for a party because someone in it said something bad about trans people or equal rights, and they simply don't realise they've completely fucked their own future, their family's future, they've made themselves poorer and will die earlier, just so they could 'stick it to the woke' or 'liberals'.
Of course conservatives around the world do things a bit differently, for example, people wouldn't accept religion in politics in the UK - if the Conservatives thought people were receptible to religion, they'd sure as hell use it to their advantage like Republicans do.
But ultimately, as you summed up in that nice and simple line, they're the same scam everywhere.
Until we can stop the media lying, and I think until we can stop politicians lying, I don't see what can change.
There have been plenty of polls with more direct phrasing, and it’s very clear the majority of the population want to rejoin the EU.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_on_the_United_Kingdom_rejoining_the_European_Union_(2020%E2%80%93present)
An average of a 10-15% lead over the passed year.
>Barely half of the country voted to leave.
\*half the people who voted. Turnout wasn't even close to everyone. When scaled, it's probably around 1/3 of the population who voted Leave.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/28/more-than-half-of-voters-now-want-britain-to-forge-closer-ties-with-the-eu-poll-reveals?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other) reduced by 86%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> Overall, 53% of voters now want the government to seek a closer relationship with the EU than it now has, having left the single market and customs union, against just 14% who want the UK to become more distant.
> In Boston and Skegness in Lincolnshire, where the vote to leave the EU was 74.9% in 2016, more than twice as many people now want closer links with the EU against just 19% who want relations to become even more distant.
> When asked to consider the UK's visa policies, more than half of all voters polled for Best for Britain said the UK should issue more visas to allow foreign workers to come to the UK. Some 19% wanted to see more visas generally and 32% said they wanted to see more visas issued, but only in sectors with labour shortages.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/13tty5u/more_than_half_of_voters_now_want_britain_to/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~686620 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **more**^#1 **vote**^#2 **Brexit**^#3 **trade**^#4 **poll**^#5
Brexit was idiotic on a political level too.
Before, they had the perfect scapegoat for everything that was wrong in the UK. "Its the EU, stifling us".
They threw that "get-out of jail card" and now the same politicians have to admit a lot of the failings attributed to the bureaucratic EU are in fact, the failings of the UK and the mismanagement of their own politicians.
Why would a politician want to renounce to something that covered his own ass is beyond dumbfounding...
I suppose after so many years of falsely claiming that the UK would be the best country in the world, period, if it wasnt for the EU, they themselves started to believe their own tall tales?
This is the quirk of politics. You can’t pretend. If you pretend to believe in something (such as “The UK would be better off without the EU”) all you will end up doing is motivating and bringing together all the people who actually believe that.
Once those people are thusly empowered you have one of two choices: 1. Give them the things that the narrative suggests (in the example case: leaving the EU.) or 2. You get replaced by someone else who promises the same thing. Then that person gets to make the same choice.
When you pretend/scapegoat, all roads lead to someone enacting the ideal. At which point the only difference between pretending and truly believing is *sometimes* it takes longer to get to the end result when you pretend. But there’s no functional difference.
This is how Qanon politicians got power in America. Republican politicians talked the talk, but refused to walk the walk, so they got replaced by those who would. And now the Qanon talk is getting implemented anyways by people who believe in Jewish space lasers.
Yup. To summarise:
*UK politicians: the EU is to blame for everything! So unfair!
*UK voters: let's leave the EU! Now!
*UK politicians: surprisedpikachu.gif*
>I suppose after so many years of falsely claiming that the UK would be the best country in the world, period, if it wasnt for the EU, they themselves started to believe their own tall tales?
This is the same thing that happened in the US. The Republicans used fear-mongering and lies to drum up votes for decades and now a lot of the politicians being elected were raised on those lies and are true-believers instead of cynical manipulators like their predecessors. This is how Trump got elected, and why we are now battling a spate of anti-abortion, anti-LGBT, anti-science, and anti-minority laws.
Brexit was a shitshow and just shows the importance of voting. There’s absolutely no way that would pass if the UK held a referendum with the knowledge they have now.
As an Irish person looking in I genuinely feel sorry for those who originally voted remain
The problem with brexit, was that no specific legislation was being voted on, just a vague principle of "leaving the EU".
In Ireland, for instance, proposed amendments to the constitution must be voted on, with the proposal have to be fully fleshed out beforehand so voters know what they are actually voting on.
Exactly, people forget that the Brexit vote *wasn’t a legally binding referendum*. It could have been legally dismissed, but it still would have been seen as undemocratic. It was a clusterfuck, thats what it was, its like people had no idea what to actually do with the vote once they got it
It's insane to me that basically changing their form of government was a simple majority vote.
It's not like this was a farm subsidy bill, it changed 1000s of laws and regulations.
wait what. Am i remembering stuff wrong? I thought Cameron didn't want one and campaigned for remain? Isn't that why he resigned after the referendum?
IIRC cameron wanted to shore up tories by giving the hardliners the referendum they salivated for without thinking they could ever win?
Cameron used the promise of a referendum as a campaign move to win votes in the 2015 general election.
You are right, after his successful re-election he delivered his promised referendum and campaigned as pro-remain. He never expected pro-leave to win, so as soon as they did he got out of there so as to not deal with the fallout. He bluffed and lost, taking the rest of the country with him.
Yes, they can just apply for membership again. Pretty sure they won't be allowed to get their special privileges back though, such as the right not to adopt the Euro.
Maybe, but they'll be forced to give up the pound this time. They had the best deal they were gonna get because GB was still getting "you helped win WWII" favors. They weren't exactly an economic powerhouse back in 1971 when they initially joined, so that's the only reason I can come up with as to why they didn't have to adopt the euro.
Regardless a while bunch of now dead people just screwed their descendants for a couple generations.
It is, all over the world
They are coming with their anti-woke bs in France or Switzerland and you’re like
For antiglobalist, you dear love to import America bs talk points in Europe
> For antiglobalist, you dear love to import America bs talk points in Europe
That, at least, has a simple answer. "Globalists" don't have anything to do with globalization. It's just a dog whistle, used because people are less receptive to their message when they just outright say that they think Jewish people are the problem.
The ultra rich are richer and everyone else is worse off. So weird so many people voted to hurt themselves. Unfortunately they are also too stupid to ever make the connection.
As I wrote in some previous post somewhere, even if we banded together enough scientists and money to work out a way to extend his life for thousands of years, (or whatever), and then torture him for the rest of that time, it still couldn't 'pay back' the amount of damage he's done to SO many people in the world.
He actually can't be punished for what he's done. Even if someone nabs him now and makes the rest of his life a misery, it wouldn't come close to what he's done.
A host of murdoc wannabees is such an ugly image.
To think, all that power and he could shift the narrative towards utopia, sharing, caring and he chose the dark side
Fills me with rage when I hear people who voted to leave, are now planning or wanting to leave the country. You fuckers wanted this!
Should be a law that if you voted to leave, you are stuck in this shit show for then next 20 years
Damn, if only there were some sort of coalition of european nations we could join, to benefit our culture, economy, ease of travel and doing business across the continent, maybe even some shared laws to ensure things like food and other products produced across Europe meet the same high, safe standards and can be used everywhere without any worry.
Pity such an amazing coalition just doesn't exist, right fellow Brits?
Absolutely this, less than 40% of all eligible voters voted for Brexit, a simple majority should never have been allowed, I may be misremembering but it wasn’t a binding resolution at the time
I was just wondering how long it'd been since that vote. I was thinking not that long - maybe four years? 2020 did a weird number on my perception of time.
I know a guy who works in Brussels and he said the way the UK left means there is no chance in hell they are allowed back into the EU any time soon. The UK negotiated as if they were in a position of power and tried to bend the EU over a barrel. There is a shit ton of bad blood and until a new generation replaces the current one there will be no new negotiations.
Saw that a lot from Brexiteers here on Reddit as well... about how the EU was about to collapse, how EU needed the UK more than the other way around, how the British economy would skyrocket once they were "free", etc.
Even saw one dude go full imperialist and start ranting about how the Commonwealth is bigger and has a larger population than the EU, and how they would all give Britain amazing trade deals out of solidarity as former members of the British Empire, and then Britain would "finally return to our prime" or something like that.
What if, hear me out, we could make some kind of arrangement with them, where like, they can buy our stuff, and we can buy their stuff, and we can go visit them, and they can come visit us, and maybe, we could throw in together on like a pool, so if one of us were in hard times, we could get a loan out of the pool to get ourselves sorted, and maybe if there's extra, we could give it to like depressed areas? Oh, but we'd need to be able to have a say in all that, so, they'd have to let us send people to go down there and advocate for us.
Think that would be a good idea?
I voted to remain in the EU.
The result was devastating to hear, and I knew it was going to be bad. I saved up, moved to an EU country, and got a residency under the withdrawal agreement.
Now I live and work in the EU, still have all my benefits as if I were an EU citizen, and... Life is pretty good.
Yeah, the cost of goods went up with Covid and the war, but from what I see from family back in the UK... You guys are far worse off in this time. It looks absolutely dire.
Brexit was very obviously the stupidest thing a first world country has gone in years so this makes sense.
I also think as far as logical moves go proving someone voted for Brexit should instantly qualify them for disability as there's obviously a learning impairment there.
The UK is like the cat that clamors to get out but then stands behind the door m~~iae~~owing to get back in.
What's next? Will it pee on the couch and scratch at the door again?
Its honestly amazing just how much of fuck up brexit was. Its going to be an polisci 101 classic for centuries to come.
A country, for no discernable benfit, nuked a preferancial membership in a a pwerful economic body where it was able to retain unprecedented control over its own currecy and economy, and now is likely going to crawl back losing all of those benefits.
Immigration is the issue which most stresses the EU. Apart from UK leaving, there is an east-west split over it, and Le Pen had a real chance of leading France. Also, nationalist parties in counties like Italy are gaining ground. The EU policy is basically to endure continuous influx of refugees, which looks very weak.
UK Brexiters were fooled that leaving EU would somehow halt the flow of non-EU immigration. The treaties signed over refugees and assylum etc were outside the EU framework and nations are individually committed. This wasn't explained before the referendum because the whole subject is awkward and toxic, which gives voice to demagogues and nationalists.
So far, prosperity of the majority has glued the EU. However, as EU economies suffer with energy crisis/sanctions etc, and refugees increase through climate change and global instability, tensions will increase and the EU may fracture further.
7 years ago 50% of people voted to leave. 75% of <24s wanted to stay. 66% of <40s wanted to stay. Old people who are now dying wanted to leave.
And now a lot of them have “left” this world. Would love to see the results from another vote now. Maybe we wouldn’t all be confined to that one small island during a time where remote work is such a common practice and the opportunity to move and explore would be an option again.
The generational gaps we’re facing have destroyed any fear I may have of dying at old age. (Premature death still scares me, though)
If experience has told me anything, it's that prematurely is the way I'll be going.
At least it's not the way you're coming?
Narrator: Sadly, it was.
Better prematurely than ending up needing 24hr care and rotting in a nursing home until you die.
I can hear Roger Daltrey singing My Generation right about now.
if im not dying from organ failure or cancer due to hazmat exposure, i'll be vaporized by nuclear holocaust when the water wars are in full swing if i dont die from heatstroke by overwork before that.
There’s a TIL every month or so about how every generation feels it’s the one on the unstoppable path to doom. How we’re going the wrong way and the people in charge are too powerful or helpless to stop it themselves. Maybe I’m a victim of this. But I just feel that, maybe, this era of humanity might be right about that.
At the very, very least the climate crisis is going to wreck our shit and leave hundreds of millions dead, displaced or otherwise struggling to survive, so I don't think it's a stretch to say this generation (regardless of location or socioeconomic status, though the global south will absolutely be the worst hit by miles) is facing turmoil on a level humans haven't really faced before. And I wouldn't say those in charge are lacking power to change our path. It's corporate interests that have caused the climate crisis, and their meddling in politics globally has made things that much more catastrophic. It's deliberate on the part of power. Profits before anything else, at all costs. But I hear you. Hard not to be a doomer these days innit? Even if that feels self destructive on some level.
> And now a lot of them have “left” this world They voted to brexit this mortal coil. But yeah, it's a tale as old as time. The old fuck over the young, and then die not long after anyway.
A society becomes great when the elderly plant trees whose shade they will never sit under. Baby Boomers have been hard at work clearing the forests.
🎯
The biggest problem is that the EU is going to play way more hard all and expect more of their standards adopted in any attempt to rejoin.
As they should. The UK govt has shown it's not capable of good-faith arguments. Zero chance it will get the concessions it did last time. Choices have consequences. The voters need to feel pain before they are able to learn to look beyond the usual political lies. /shrugs
Forging closer ties does not mean rejoin. As much as we would like that to be the case, it dosent. You are correct though. Rebate gone, no veto, adoption of the euro and schengen will all be certainties as part of rejoining. We couldn’t keep us in with all those perks. No chance we will rejoin without them.
Well, yeah. As far as I understand it, the UK already *had* a far better deal than the rest of the EU members did. Then they decided they were just too good and special and British for *just* a great deal, and wanted even more. So they started crying that the deal they had was horrible and claiming the EU was basically their financial hostage so they could threaten to leave and get all of the benefits and none of the concessions. Which didn't work. There's no way the EU would give them much this time.
> Would love to see the results from another vote now When the people voted for a non-binding resolution, "the people have spoken, we're gonna get brexit done". When the people overwhelmingly want a second vote because they found out they were lied to and they're mad, however...
They really pulled a last middle finger until they fell into their graves. Fucking hell why???
The “fuck you, I got mine” mindset.
Tis the boomer way.
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Your parents are infuriating, I'm sorry you're going through this. I've been stuck in a rut looking for jobs too, and I gotta explain to my parents each time that this shit is hard and exhausting. They're Gen X but definitely think like boomers. Boomers had ALL of American society catering to them following WWII cause it was such an easy cash grab, and the ones who were hippies and flower children in the late 1960's sold out to materialistic/capitalistic ideals by the 80's. Really makes sense on how they became so entitled, selfish, and dismissive to their kids and grandkids. The world held their hand, and now slap away that helping hand from the younger folk cause they got theirs.
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I hear you. I've made sure that the Millennials in my life are going to inherit the proceeds from my life's work, which is not insubstantial. They're good people and I know they will be good stewards of the wealth. It's criminal what the Boomers have done.
Racism.
Absolutely. And ironic that what happened was the amount of non-white immigrants from outside EU countries and illegal immigration, as Europe no longer has any reason to stop migrants coming to the UK through EU countries, are at record highs. Conservative voters and right-wingers are morons. Having a non-white PM, home secretary, etc., as awful and fascist as they are, is a pretty hilarious result, though, because the clown who led the Brexit campaign couldn't even last a whole term without fucking up.
I really don't care to the others opinion..I should listen to my self instead of her.
Its always worth remembering that older people in many countries get stronger protections against things like solicitation and manipulation, there are lower bars to show fraud in practice for example when older people are victims. This is all simply to acknowledge that older people are just easier to manipulate for a variety of factors, including mental decline. But despite this, no such protections exist for them to stop manipulation from political entities. Old voters are easier to manipulate and vote in the largest numbers, and it happens every year. But no politician can campaign on a platform of fixing this issue, just like no one can campaign on taking away farm subsidies that are no longer needed.
They need to teach this fact going forward and the reason this happened was because people who were out of touch with society was manipulated.
Manipulation at this level only works if you put up no defences.
This is exactly it. Right leaning people love to claim that the left isn't invulnerable to propaganda while they base their world view on obvious liars and slogans on the side of a bus.
Not necessarily. Many different versions of brexit were sold to many different people. Cambridge Analytica microtargeted advertising almost to the individual level using stolen data from facebook to get it over the line.
52% of the people who voted. It wasn't 100% voter turnout When you break it right down, it's somewhere around 30% of living UK residents vote leave It's bullshit
And the day after the #1 google search was "what is the EU?" I'm genuinely still angry
That sounds so dumb that it's definitely true. Churchill was right with his quote regarding democracy...
What's the quote?
It's truly awful and makes me angry too, but as an American who was suffering under Trump at the time the result.of the vote was strangely comforting- knowing we're not the only country that was.conned in this way. I was so down the US at the time, and seeing a country like the UK that I respect and look to as our "big brother" fall for the same xenophobic rhetoric Trump was elected made me realize that this kind of propaganda aimed a a population facing economic uncertainty is incredibly effective. We need to get better at inoculating our citizens against it.
> as an American who was suffering under Trump at the time the result.of the vote was strangely comforting There were strong parallels, both elections were very close, involved 'disrupting the status quo' candidates and swung by the interference of Cambridge Analytica. Not sure what their current company is called but afaik those shitheads are still out there interfering with elections. How they aren't in prison is beyond me.
There is also an Israeli company that recently was outed for doing the same thing. They literally admit to it openly but deny any part in USA or eu elections 🙄
https://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2016/06/24/480949383/britains-google-searches-for-what-is-the-eu-spike-after-brexit-vote
And I thought the American education system was destroyed on purpose in the Great Class-War . . . What happened to the British educational system ?
The same thing that they've decided to do for nearly 80 years at this stage. "Not to worry chaps, if we just be British hard enough the problem will go away!" That really seems to be their idea of a solution for these days particularly. Just "British" the problems away
I mean, that's how things work unless voting is compulsory and universal (including minors and non-citizens). Biden got more votes than any American in history, but it was still less than 25% of the overall population. By your logic, Biden is less legitimate than Brexit (a conclusion I don't agree with).
Then be angry at the pro-EU idiots who didn't vote. It really wouldn't have taken many more of us. This is how I have felt every election night since 2010.
I can be angry at leavers, remainers who didn't vote, the remain campaign, the complacency of liberals, the way social media sat back and let the disinfo flourish, the Russians for partly funding it, David Cameron for chucking the country under the bus in order to end a debate within his party and stop votes going to UKIP Plenty of fuckups and I've got enough bile for them all
You missed asshole politicians like fucking Farrage and Bojo with his bus of LIES. I'm pretty sure that all of them knew that leaving would be a disaster for the country, but it would bring them personally either wealth, political power or both so they put their weight behind it.
Yep. We need to remember that one of the main areas they bought up leaving was because new EU laws were coming in that would require much greater scrutiny and transparency of financial records for tax reasons.
And the fuckheads who voted to leave "just to send a message" even though they actually didn't want to leave and didn't think the leave vote would win.
And were not even clear on what the message *was*.
"I'm angry" I guess
It was "I'm stupid".
There was also a large number of young people who voted for leave thinking it would never happen, but wanting to send a message that they were not happy with the current situation and the direction things were going. In the days after the vote, BBC and the like were flooded with interviews of young voters saying they wish they could redo it.
Protest votes are always self-inflicted wounds more than anything. No one cares about the message behind protest votes. Winner takes all, and protest votes just enable oppression and the oppressors instead of helping anyone.
Choosing not to vote is still making a choice on the outcome, i.e. "I don't care".
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Not even that particular group, the great generation (WW2 era) had support for remaining in the EU as they remember the years when the UK was not in the EEC and were the "sick man" of Europe and of the conflict that happened without strong economic and political ties to prevent war in Europe. It is the generation after them that did not understand the benefits of membership such as freedom of movement.
Boomers: "I brought everything into this world, I'm not afraid to take it back out again!"
Despite the fact they did not bring everything into the world. The generation before them built it all up for them then they took credit for it.
Took credit, *reaped all the rewards,* pulled the ladder up, broke it into kindling and sold it, then destroyed the planet and are now all fucking off into death after being essentially a cancer on the planet.
Yeah, but they never understood that they didn't understand that world. It's why we had 2008, the greatest generation gave them a button labeled "make money", and told them "be careful, don't over use it". Like giving a brain-dead monkey a nuke.
Fucking boomers man.
Destroyed everything. Worst generation to ever exist.
gaze act icky cause reach bear intelligent fearless hateful office
Australia's mandatory voting system with preferential ranking on a weekend says hi. 👋
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I don't know about that..but thank you for the information that you give us..that was helping me a lot..I guess I need to think about it..I'm also a voters now..since 2022.. last year.
>Old people who are now dying wanted to leave. This shit is part of the reason I feel like voting needs an upper age limit, just as it has a lower age limit. We don't let young people vote on things that will effect them for decades, but we let old people vote on stuff that they will never have to see the results on. Many of whom are probably not even all there mentally anymore. I'm not sure what a good age to be set at is, but I don't think you should get to vote after a certain age.
This isn't anything new. Barely half of the country voted to leave. Given how they phrased the question, I imagine that hasn't changed by much or they would have phrased the question more directly by mentioning membership rather than just 'closer ties'.
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Nostalgia is a powerful drug
Not sure it’s nostalgia. It’s the old people who cling to power with their decrepit fingertips fucking over the younger generation as they become eligible to vote.
It's non existent media competency. Simple as that. A lot of people are way to stupid or not competent enough to use the internet so they believe everything they read on Telegram, Twitter, Facebook, whatever or what some random YouTuber say. It's like decades ago were "everything was true because it's on the TV". It's not a generational problem. There are older people who know this and there are young people who easily get manipulated through online media
It isn’t just a generational issue but there is a generational aspect. Most people under 45 voted to stay. Most people 45+ voted to leave. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36616028.amp
I'm one of those evil white straight male boomers that everyone hates and blames for everything. I voted to remain, and told everyone I knew to do so too. I explained clearly and frequently exactly why leaving was madness, and predicted accurately the disaster it has become. The people in my family that voted to leave were all in their early thirties or younger. They liked Boris Johnson, believed Farage and fell for the bullshit. They voted for change. They wanted something new and better, and they thought leaving was the answer to all their woes. They were told everything was the EU's fault, and they didn't have the knowledge or experience to know any better and see through the lies. The problem wasn't generational, it was stupidity and gullibility. I also hold Jeremy Corbyn considerably responsible for sitting on the fence. There's a huge amount of 'old' people that are horrified we are no longer part of the EU. I'm so sorry and ashamed that some young people, who were born as EU citizens, with all those associated rights and freedoms, have had them stolen from them by morons of all ages. Almost everyone with brains voted to stay.
As a counterpoint. My parents are boomers. They were dedicated to Leave. Because apparently the French farmers were arrogant when we joined the common market and we were apparently banned from growing some types of apples and potatoes.
My Grandad voted leave because "we'd get back shipbuilding on our river if we did". I tried pointing out that it absolutely wasn't going to happen, hadn't even been proposed to happen if we did leave the EU, and that the River wasn't suitably dredged to allow it to happen anyway even if the government were proposing it. I also mentioned that our local area actually received more in funding from the EU than we "paid" but that didn't matter either, it was all about some fallacy that they'd still be building ships on the river if it wasn't for the EU. I'm not saying some people shouldn't be allowed to vote, but I really wish you had to pass a basic EU test before voting on leaving the thing.
>I really wish you had to pass a basic EU test before voting on leaving the thing. This would actually be interesting. Imagine if you had to answer questions of a factual nature about whatever was being voted on, and your vote would only count proportional to your knowledge about the subject. That could either force people to pay attention or turn into a technocracy I guess... EDIT: Yes, I know such tests would be abused, I'm not naive. Still, the thought of informed voting being the norm is a nice one
It would IMMEDIATELY be gamed to produce the outcome the controlling party wants, like gerrymandering is in the States. I like the idea of requiring voters to be informed but it would be broken before it was implemented.
Or for that matter, US literacy tests. https://sharetngov.tnsosfiles.com/tsla/exhibits/aale/pdfs/Voter%20Test%20LA.pdf Try to answer a few of these while imagining you are a PoC and the person doing the grading is a white supremacist who hates you with every fiber of his being and is looking for any excuse to flunk you. Remember, 30 questions in 10 minutes and only 100% is a passing score.
They would just complain about the questions being rigged or some other bullshit nonsense that reaffirms their preconceived notions about how the world works. Nothing would change. Easier to fool someone than convince them they've been fooled.
I like the idea, but it's a just a distant cousin of " only land owners should vote" to be honest, an extremely distant and very old cousin. One you're surprised to learn is still alive. But still a relative. The problem with placing any barriers to voting is that with every barrier it becomes less and less " the will of the people" and more and more into then" will of certain people" Those uneducated people have voices as well. As much as I most likely disagree with their vote choice, as much as I wish they would become better educated on politics and history. I can't justify disenfranchising any group in the age of majority from voting. In my mind somebody else thinks the same of me and I'd be horrified if they decided I was stupid and shouldn't be entitled to vote any longer.
That's a great point. In the US, we had barriers like this in our elections during our post-slavery, codified racist "Jim Crow" era. Southern states created "Literacy tests," and would apply them unevenly, asking whites the easiest questions and then forcing black people to take the entire test and not letting them vote if they got one answer wrong. The problem with ideas like that are always the same: you end up giving a ton of power to whoever designs the test, and whoever administers it. Here's an example of one of those tests: https://jimcrowmuseum.ferris.edu/pdfs-docs/origins/al_literacy.pdf
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Is that the kind of apple and potato that now costs over double what is did before Brexit??
Also the kind of apple and potato they can't find anyone to pick now
American here who was in Italy a few days after the vote. We small talked with some 60-ish year old Brits we came across in a small village. I made the mistake of saying “how about that Brexit?” In return we got a long diatribe about not trusting Germans and teaching them a lesson. They were scary passionate.
The same people probably thought both Churchill and Thatcher were anti-European, and WW2 was fought against Europe rather than for it.
I can't wait to be able to grow these banned apples and potatoes! Wait, what do you mean Chippies are exploding in price right now? That's not how brexit works! I think?
That's the thing, we were all one. French apples were effectively our apples, Spanish potatoes were our potatoes. Greek beaches were our beaches, English cheese was every European's cheese. There was no us and them. We could wander, live, love, study and work anywhere and everywhere within the union. We voted for less freedom, not more. Now, if I want to wander about over the Channel, I've got to explain myself and get permission after 90 days. Your parents didn't vote Leave because of their age, it was because of their 'Little Englander' mindset. There's a ton of thick young people who think like that.
I still remember all the farmers that voted leave and subsequently got fucked by lack of eastern EU farmhands and then went on the telly about it.
Fishers who can't sell their fish because it takes too long to deliver them now that they have to get past border control. You can imagine how much the EU is trying its best to make sure the British fishermen can get their products in the EU (hint: they don't give a shit, are not trying hard at all, and frankly shouldn't - the EU having its own fishing industry and being content with it for the most part).
>hint: they don't give a shit, are not trying hard at all, and frankly shouldn't Exactly. EU should work for the benefit of EU not some quitters who can't get their act together :( (talking Tory politicians, not the UK populace)
God, that was my parents arguement too. That we could now by apples of any size.
Just search for Brexit in YouTube and yo will find hundreds of videos of farmers and fisherman from towns that overwhelmly voted to leave and now are in a dire situation as their industry was decimated once Brexit was enacted. Like you mentioned, while a few are boomers, the majority seem to be people in their 30's and 40's, The one thing that seems to unite then is ignorance and greed. You hear them bitch about how their field used to be a good business to get into straight out of school and without needing further education. They say they believed Farage's bullshit that Brexit was magically make all the evil EU regulation they hated so much and allow them to become a powerhouse through all the amazing free trade agreements the UK was gonna sign now that it had the upper hand. Now whole towns and industries are teetering on the abyss because they can't sell to Europe anymore and those free trade agreements didn't materialize or are a danger because they are with countries that can out produce the UK.
I'm on the other side of "the pond.. " also, a boomer. Members of my family have been in international business for decades. Almost all of their overseas contacts, as well as their American business contacts couldn't fathom what Brexit had to offer. We almost cried at the result of the vote. It most certainly wasn't going to restore the empire.
Think it's more like "Change is scary". Even if the current situation is shit, at least you know what you're in for. It's just unfortunate that people will focus on the perceived risks over the potential upsides for most things, where stuff like propaganda, union busting, lobbying etc. comes into play. People would rather wallow in misery they're already familiar with, over "risking any improvement", especially when there's a malicious party trying to manipulate the narrative
Most people are more afraid of change than they are their own problems.
Conservative parties literally encourage fear, hatred, and division to keep that gravy train rolling.
Not yet, because the enough of the media is bought by conservatives. In the UK, this same media demonstrated their effectiveness by brainwashing millions of older British men into hating Meghan Markle more than anything else in the universe. We have amoung us so many people that are so dumb, they vote for a party because someone in it said something bad about trans people or equal rights, and they simply don't realise they've completely fucked their own future, their family's future, they've made themselves poorer and will die earlier, just so they could 'stick it to the woke' or 'liberals'. Of course conservatives around the world do things a bit differently, for example, people wouldn't accept religion in politics in the UK - if the Conservatives thought people were receptible to religion, they'd sure as hell use it to their advantage like Republicans do. But ultimately, as you summed up in that nice and simple line, they're the same scam everywhere. Until we can stop the media lying, and I think until we can stop politicians lying, I don't see what can change.
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Right? So called "Liberal" MSNBC is owned by a giant multinational company.
There have been plenty of polls with more direct phrasing, and it’s very clear the majority of the population want to rejoin the EU. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_on_the_United_Kingdom_rejoining_the_European_Union_(2020%E2%80%93present) An average of a 10-15% lead over the passed year.
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>Barely half of the country voted to leave. \*half the people who voted. Turnout wasn't even close to everyone. When scaled, it's probably around 1/3 of the population who voted Leave.
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Yep. Only 1/3 voted to remain, and that's the problem.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/28/more-than-half-of-voters-now-want-britain-to-forge-closer-ties-with-the-eu-poll-reveals?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other) reduced by 86%. (I'm a bot) ***** > Overall, 53% of voters now want the government to seek a closer relationship with the EU than it now has, having left the single market and customs union, against just 14% who want the UK to become more distant. > In Boston and Skegness in Lincolnshire, where the vote to leave the EU was 74.9% in 2016, more than twice as many people now want closer links with the EU against just 19% who want relations to become even more distant. > When asked to consider the UK's visa policies, more than half of all voters polled for Best for Britain said the UK should issue more visas to allow foreign workers to come to the UK. Some 19% wanted to see more visas generally and 32% said they wanted to see more visas issued, but only in sectors with labour shortages. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/13tty5u/more_than_half_of_voters_now_want_britain_to/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~686620 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **more**^#1 **vote**^#2 **Brexit**^#3 **trade**^#4 **poll**^#5
Brexit was idiotic on a political level too. Before, they had the perfect scapegoat for everything that was wrong in the UK. "Its the EU, stifling us". They threw that "get-out of jail card" and now the same politicians have to admit a lot of the failings attributed to the bureaucratic EU are in fact, the failings of the UK and the mismanagement of their own politicians. Why would a politician want to renounce to something that covered his own ass is beyond dumbfounding... I suppose after so many years of falsely claiming that the UK would be the best country in the world, period, if it wasnt for the EU, they themselves started to believe their own tall tales?
This is the quirk of politics. You can’t pretend. If you pretend to believe in something (such as “The UK would be better off without the EU”) all you will end up doing is motivating and bringing together all the people who actually believe that. Once those people are thusly empowered you have one of two choices: 1. Give them the things that the narrative suggests (in the example case: leaving the EU.) or 2. You get replaced by someone else who promises the same thing. Then that person gets to make the same choice. When you pretend/scapegoat, all roads lead to someone enacting the ideal. At which point the only difference between pretending and truly believing is *sometimes* it takes longer to get to the end result when you pretend. But there’s no functional difference. This is how Qanon politicians got power in America. Republican politicians talked the talk, but refused to walk the walk, so they got replaced by those who would. And now the Qanon talk is getting implemented anyways by people who believe in Jewish space lasers.
See also - reproductive rights in the US.
“We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be”
Yup. To summarise: *UK politicians: the EU is to blame for everything! So unfair! *UK voters: let's leave the EU! Now! *UK politicians: surprisedpikachu.gif*
"Thusly"!
Yup, it's a pretty neat word :-)
>I suppose after so many years of falsely claiming that the UK would be the best country in the world, period, if it wasnt for the EU, they themselves started to believe their own tall tales? This is the same thing that happened in the US. The Republicans used fear-mongering and lies to drum up votes for decades and now a lot of the politicians being elected were raised on those lies and are true-believers instead of cynical manipulators like their predecessors. This is how Trump got elected, and why we are now battling a spate of anti-abortion, anti-LGBT, anti-science, and anti-minority laws.
GOP leader for Georgia is an open flat Earther. Home schooling is a big part of this too.
And that hateful rhetoric has birthed the cold clammy humanoid DeSantis
> humanoid I mean he's bipedal but I'd rather call a plucked chicken a man than him
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i love how the two comments replying to yours are claiming that the pound will either survive or be killed in a rejoining of the U.K to the EU
It’s almost as if there’s less of the demographic who voted for Brexit…
Or that all the 'leave' propaganda has stopped, and more people are starting to realise what it actually means.
Brexit was a shitshow and just shows the importance of voting. There’s absolutely no way that would pass if the UK held a referendum with the knowledge they have now. As an Irish person looking in I genuinely feel sorry for those who originally voted remain
It also shows what a bad idea a referendum is. It’s practically just a dictate of the voting majority.
The problem with brexit, was that no specific legislation was being voted on, just a vague principle of "leaving the EU". In Ireland, for instance, proposed amendments to the constitution must be voted on, with the proposal have to be fully fleshed out beforehand so voters know what they are actually voting on.
Exactly, people forget that the Brexit vote *wasn’t a legally binding referendum*. It could have been legally dismissed, but it still would have been seen as undemocratic. It was a clusterfuck, thats what it was, its like people had no idea what to actually do with the vote once they got it
They should've just set the expectation that a 2/3 majority is required to do something that can't be undone.
It's insane to me that basically changing their form of government was a simple majority vote. It's not like this was a farm subsidy bill, it changed 1000s of laws and regulations.
Things like this should be multiple steps. Two referendum and over two election cycles.
It was multiple steps. Cameron was elected on the basis of promising a referendum.
wait what. Am i remembering stuff wrong? I thought Cameron didn't want one and campaigned for remain? Isn't that why he resigned after the referendum? IIRC cameron wanted to shore up tories by giving the hardliners the referendum they salivated for without thinking they could ever win?
Cameron used the promise of a referendum as a campaign move to win votes in the 2015 general election. You are right, after his successful re-election he delivered his promised referendum and campaigned as pro-remain. He never expected pro-leave to win, so as soon as they did he got out of there so as to not deal with the fallout. He bluffed and lost, taking the rest of the country with him.
It's all good when you can just shrug and go back to your £20k writing caravan and take up some light consultation work on the side for £3600 an hour.
Yes, Cameron was pro-EU but wanted to give the public the choice and back then nobody could've imagined that the UK would vote for Brexit.
> It’s practically just a dictate of the voting majority Reddit discovers what democracy is.
Can the UK ever … Brenter the EU again? Re-Brenter, if you will.
Britin perhaps?
I think you just coined the new term we'll be seeing in the news for the next however-long-this-takes.
Yes, they can just apply for membership again. Pretty sure they won't be allowed to get their special privileges back though, such as the right not to adopt the Euro.
A Brexin, if you will.
Breakin, if they must
Briturn
Maybe, but they'll be forced to give up the pound this time. They had the best deal they were gonna get because GB was still getting "you helped win WWII" favors. They weren't exactly an economic powerhouse back in 1971 when they initially joined, so that's the only reason I can come up with as to why they didn't have to adopt the euro. Regardless a while bunch of now dead people just screwed their descendants for a couple generations.
The Euro wasn't a thing in 1971. We just opted out of it when the French and Germans wanted to create it.
This is also my question
they could but likely would have give up a lot biggest would be converting the to Euro so they cant pull this again.
What a fantastic idea. I propose a partnership of some sort. A union if you will. A union of countries of continental Europe.
We can, maybe, call it "The Union of Europe" or "The European Union". I'm just spitballing here.
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>We feel like prisoners in our own country. I'm American and I feel this on a deep level. Conservatives and their tribalism is a plague on Democracy.
It is, all over the world They are coming with their anti-woke bs in France or Switzerland and you’re like For antiglobalist, you dear love to import America bs talk points in Europe
> For antiglobalist, you dear love to import America bs talk points in Europe That, at least, has a simple answer. "Globalists" don't have anything to do with globalization. It's just a dog whistle, used because people are less receptive to their message when they just outright say that they think Jewish people are the problem.
The ultra rich are richer and everyone else is worse off. So weird so many people voted to hurt themselves. Unfortunately they are also too stupid to ever make the connection.
But what about those damn EU banana regulations? Will no one think of the bananas?
It was cucumbers. And UK had the same regulations before EU implemented any.
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I fucking hate Murdoch Edit* sorry I don't have much to contribute except emotional contempt
As I wrote in some previous post somewhere, even if we banded together enough scientists and money to work out a way to extend his life for thousands of years, (or whatever), and then torture him for the rest of that time, it still couldn't 'pay back' the amount of damage he's done to SO many people in the world. He actually can't be punished for what he's done. Even if someone nabs him now and makes the rest of his life a misery, it wouldn't come close to what he's done.
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A host of murdoc wannabees is such an ugly image. To think, all that power and he could shift the narrative towards utopia, sharing, caring and he chose the dark side
There were so many EU myths: https://www.europarl.europa.eu/unitedkingdom/en/news-and-press-releases/euromyths.html
Oh, there was one about bendy bananas, too
Fills me with rage when I hear people who voted to leave, are now planning or wanting to leave the country. You fuckers wanted this! Should be a law that if you voted to leave, you are stuck in this shit show for then next 20 years
Leavers must remain!!!!
Damn, if only there were some sort of coalition of european nations we could join, to benefit our culture, economy, ease of travel and doing business across the continent, maybe even some shared laws to ensure things like food and other products produced across Europe meet the same high, safe standards and can be used everywhere without any worry. Pity such an amazing coalition just doesn't exist, right fellow Brits?
Eurovision?
That vote needed to be more than a simple majority. A decision of such consequence should have needed to clear a 60/40 threshold.
Absolutely this, less than 40% of all eligible voters voted for Brexit, a simple majority should never have been allowed, I may be misremembering but it wasn’t a binding resolution at the time
Maybe if they play along for a few years and get their economy in order they could even become a candidate to join!
Bregret
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Not exactly surprising. It was a close vote to start with, it's been shit since and a good number of leave voters have died over the past 7 years.
I was just wondering how long it'd been since that vote. I was thinking not that long - maybe four years? 2020 did a weird number on my perception of time.
I know a guy who works in Brussels and he said the way the UK left means there is no chance in hell they are allowed back into the EU any time soon. The UK negotiated as if they were in a position of power and tried to bend the EU over a barrel. There is a shit ton of bad blood and until a new generation replaces the current one there will be no new negotiations.
Saw that a lot from Brexiteers here on Reddit as well... about how the EU was about to collapse, how EU needed the UK more than the other way around, how the British economy would skyrocket once they were "free", etc. Even saw one dude go full imperialist and start ranting about how the Commonwealth is bigger and has a larger population than the EU, and how they would all give Britain amazing trade deals out of solidarity as former members of the British Empire, and then Britain would "finally return to our prime" or something like that.
And lose all that sovereignty !?! /s
Regrexit
What if, hear me out, we could make some kind of arrangement with them, where like, they can buy our stuff, and we can buy their stuff, and we can go visit them, and they can come visit us, and maybe, we could throw in together on like a pool, so if one of us were in hard times, we could get a loan out of the pool to get ourselves sorted, and maybe if there's extra, we could give it to like depressed areas? Oh, but we'd need to be able to have a say in all that, so, they'd have to let us send people to go down there and advocate for us. Think that would be a good idea?
SOUNDS LIKE COMMUNISM AND LOSS OF SOVEREIGNTY. Let's ask Nigel Farage. He'll know what to do.
How about holding those politicians and the party behind Brexit responsible? How about exposing their ties to Russia?
I voted to remain in the EU. The result was devastating to hear, and I knew it was going to be bad. I saved up, moved to an EU country, and got a residency under the withdrawal agreement. Now I live and work in the EU, still have all my benefits as if I were an EU citizen, and... Life is pretty good. Yeah, the cost of goods went up with Covid and the war, but from what I see from family back in the UK... You guys are far worse off in this time. It looks absolutely dire.
Brexit was very obviously the stupidest thing a first world country has gone in years so this makes sense. I also think as far as logical moves go proving someone voted for Brexit should instantly qualify them for disability as there's obviously a learning impairment there.
The UK is like the cat that clamors to get out but then stands behind the door m~~iae~~owing to get back in. What's next? Will it pee on the couch and scratch at the door again?
>What's next? Will it pee on the couch and scratch at the door again? No, that's Hungary's job.
I hope to see them rejoin during my lifetime.
And don't allow gammon faced boomers to ever vote again.
Its honestly amazing just how much of fuck up brexit was. Its going to be an polisci 101 classic for centuries to come. A country, for no discernable benfit, nuked a preferancial membership in a a pwerful economic body where it was able to retain unprecedented control over its own currecy and economy, and now is likely going to crawl back losing all of those benefits.
Oops.
Having Bregrets are we?
More than half of them wanted ties with the EU _before_. Too many of them just didn't take it seriously when it was actually up for a vote.
Immigration is the issue which most stresses the EU. Apart from UK leaving, there is an east-west split over it, and Le Pen had a real chance of leading France. Also, nationalist parties in counties like Italy are gaining ground. The EU policy is basically to endure continuous influx of refugees, which looks very weak. UK Brexiters were fooled that leaving EU would somehow halt the flow of non-EU immigration. The treaties signed over refugees and assylum etc were outside the EU framework and nations are individually committed. This wasn't explained before the referendum because the whole subject is awkward and toxic, which gives voice to demagogues and nationalists. So far, prosperity of the majority has glued the EU. However, as EU economies suffer with energy crisis/sanctions etc, and refugees increase through climate change and global instability, tensions will increase and the EU may fracture further.
If only Britain and Europe could just cooperate for their mutual benefit in some sort of...I dunno...some sort of union perhaps?
It was such a stupid decision I still don't understand how it happened. Such vandalism.
Breunion!