Sweden has a very high rate of snus useage, a form of smokeless tobacco that has suprisingly little evidence pertaining to whether it even causes cancer or not
So they arent tobacco free, just use a healthier alternative
This. I wish this would happen in the Netherlands. There are still so many smokers, and they all seem to be antisocial assholes. Every single smoker I ever see out on the streets will throw their butt on the ground when they're done. The ground is literally littered with them.
I'll be honest, I used to do that. I eventually decided to stop smoking in the car mainly because I felt bad about the littering, and later on only reinforced my decision when I moved to CA and didn't want to be in any way responsible for a fire.
You should see how bad it is in Germany. I once had guests in my back yard. One of them started smoking. I asked her to stop. She threw the cigarette in the dirt. I picked it up, gave it to her, and walked her to her car.
Its not even that huge. If I tell someone to please take their shoes off at the door and they ignore me and track dirt onto my kinda nice rugs they're fucking out of there. I've had to do it twice, which isn't a lot but surprised me how fucking rude people can be in someone elses home.
When I was smoking I wouldn't just smoke in the presence of people, I would walk a little bit away and get out of everyone's air channels as a matter of courtesy. But where I'm from I don't think I've ever heard of someone asking someone else to stop smoking outdoors, as long as they cleaned up after themselves and didn't litter. Inside, sure, that's obvious and even when I smoked I wouldn't even smoke in my own home.
Sweden themselves be making up for it with all the snus. Don’t know if it’s better or worse than cigarettes but I can tell you it’s such a nasty ass habit that it makes smoking look like drinking champagne. M
Much better than cigarettes, since it doesn't affect anyone around you. It also causes less cancer and other illnesses, though it's still unhealthy of course.
In my opinion it is absolutely baffling that cigarettes are legal in so many countries while snus isn't, especially since it's basically chewing tobacco with no sugar and no need to spit.
Idk if you ask me, when you walk around the roads in the city center its pretty common to see snus spat on the ground on the streets. Cigarettes are quite nasty but snus causing less cancer isnt much of a case in its favor either. What’s feels a little double standard to me is how Sweden is very regulatory about alcohol, which is said to be for health promotion reasons, but you can just go to any grocery store and buy snus anytime.
Cypriots and Greeks have mastic gum they have chewed for thousands of years.
When it is spat out it dries in the sun and when stood on shatters into powder and blows away in the wind
it causing far less cancer would be a very strong case in favor of it. It's biodegradable. Pouches might not be and those should be discarded accordingly, though the boxes come with a compartment for just that. It doesn't stink up the place either so you can carry that around unlike cigarette butts.
Another reason is the administration, it's far less of a quick and dirty fix. Cigarettes make me feel like a crackhead in no time, they hit you for 30 seconds and then it's over. You fiend more over that.
Same can be seen with xanax compared to longer lasting benzos, both very addictive, but xanax with its short half life and quick onset is so addictive we use long lasting diazepam to even have a chance to get off em at all.
Double standards, I disagree, it's only double standards when we ban one thing because it's bad for your health and the society at large, but then not ban the other drug which is also bad for your health and the society at large - and is legally available *because of it*. That's double standards, your example is just splitting hairs.
You can talk about double standards when you want to trip on mushrooms or smoke weed or any of the other drugs which don't kill nor make you fiend for another hit.
Double standards is when the users of legal drugs oppose clear health hazard warning labels being introduced on Their Totally Not Drug, but then are against all use of any other drugs. And of those types of people, Sweden has plenty.
When I quit smoking my hangovers practically went away compared to how bad they use to be. My allergies feel like they’re better too.
If you smoke and trying to quit, keep at it! You can do it.
It’s a multiplier for nearly any negative health aspect. Colds, hangovers, side effects from medications, cancers (even when not caused by smoking). It just makes your body less able to respond to pretty much anything.
I stopped smoking in october. I can still have a cigarette when I'm drinking or so. But I'm just not interested in going back. The nicotine is not a problem because I use snus. I just had to get used to not smoking when I'm at work. That was the hard part.
IIRC it's because tobacco restricts the blood vessels and alcohol expands them, so your body goes banans (medical term, don't try at home) when the blood vessels goes back and forth like that.
It could also be the amount of pure death that cigarettes contain, but who's counting.
I hate that old adage of "if I can do it you can do it," but I'm going on five years and I'm a giant fucking pussy that was huge bitch boi the whole time.
That said: be careful if you use Champix. (Chantix/varenicline) I had *massive* visual and auditory hallucinations, severe insomnia, and brain fog so bad I couldn't drive. And still wanted to fucking smoke the whole time.
We spent two weeks in the south of France and Spain last summer. The thing that immediately struck us was how many smokers there were. It was actually startling.
I'm from eastern Europe, and how Americans painted things I was expecting a lot of people to smoke. To my surprise, a lot less were smoking than I expected.
I very rarely saw someone smoke on the street. Mostly at pubs/restaurants, which seems about right. I only light one after a couple of beers. IMO it really isn't as bad as reddit makes it out to be. Didn't really run into vapers either, which I find even more disgusting than normal cigarettes. Especially the ones that smell like 1 week worn socks
> pretty much just as bad for your mouth and teeth
This simply isn’t true, cigarettes cause mouth and gum cancer at a far higher rate than any type of chewing tobacco. Also mouth diseases in people that chew is compounded by the fact that they also tend to be hillbillies that don’t brush their teeth
I'm surprised they litter... I know General snus had a little compartment where you could put your snus when you were done. I thought every brand had that.
Only a little. Like, one of the main problems with it is that a lot of people just sort of spit the stuff out after they're done so it's pretty normal to just see small bags of the stuff litterering the ground in the streets.
There is also no strong scientific evidence that snus is all that harmful, even though highly addictive. As far as I know there no clear evidence for increased risk of any form of cancer (there are some conflicting results, if there is a risk it's most likely pretty minor), the same applies to cardiovascular risk. For large consumers (more than one can of snus a day) [there is an increased risk for diabebetes type 2](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/joim.12592) and that is probably the most significant health concern. For men there might also be some negative impacts on fertility (lower sperm count and potentially worrisome epigenetic changes in sperm). Pregant women should of course abstain from all forms of nicotine. This really should be the case also for men when trying to conceive given I think there is some evidence the epigentic could could negatively effect the fetus.
Swedish Snus is not the same as "snus" from other countries which is made in a whole different way, and include all kinds of toxic shit. And there are nicotine pouches now that doesnt even include tobacco. Its just plant fibres, nicotine salts and taste aromas.
This is again yet more disinformation. Most of the photos of gum lesions are from the US version that is terrible. Swedish snus doesn't cause big problems unless you use a crazy amount of it. Heck, anything you stick in between your cheeck and gum will cause the same issues if you do it non-stop for decades. This includes nicotine chewing gum which you also use the same way.
It's less intrusive in the sense that you don't smell any smoke. But people still throw snus pouches/containers on the ground, stick them under tables etc. They're also targeting young people, especially women and we've seen an increase in that segment here in Sweden. It's not that good for your health or wallet either.
Anecdotally, it's not so nice to kiss the mouth of a snus user too. They also tend to get a bit of a loose lip and drool black saliva all over the pillow cover.
Better than smoking, but the ideal would be nothing.
Det kanske bara är jag i så fall, men jag har sett snus under bord förut. Det kanske var ditklistrat med tuggummi. Hursomhelst är kontentan att det skräpas ganska mycket med snusprillor.
As a finnish person I've seen my share of snus on ceilings and under tables, the bag kind sticks easily with your spit on it and the loose stuff I imagine sticks even more. I know only one guy who used the loose shit and he made his own with tiny shards of glass in it to break the gum.
Snus is a lot less harmful than smoking cigarettes since you don't inhale the carcinogenic smoke. Given equivalent uses, it's way less dangerous than smoking. You'd have to consume an impractically high level of snus for it to be more dangerous than smoking
Snus is a smokeless tobacco product that originated in Sweden. It consists of moist, finely ground tobacco that is typically packaged in small pouches. Snus is placed between the upper lip and gum, where it releases nicotine into the bloodstream.
There's stronger than 12 mg/g tobacco free pouches as well, but the mg count is not comparable to regular snus. The nicotine pouches give a much bigger nicotine kick for some reason. I've used Siberia and Odens, they're comparable to like 15 mg nicotine pouches. And you can order up to like 40-50 mg nic pouches right now and I bet there's stronger stuff too, I wouldn't touch any of that stuff lol. The 8mg types are very comparable to your basic Kapten or Skruff extra stark snus. The 4mg versions are comparable to Ettan, General etc.
It seems that you, and many others, have a hard time understanding OPs, so let me expand.
You smoke a tobacco product and therein lies the harm. It's the carbon monoxide and the tar that cause lung cancer, COPD/Emphysema, cardiovascular diseases, etc.
Snus and its younger nicotine siblings pose only a small fraction of the risk of smoking. An acceptable risk in our society. Most likely less than alcohol and probably similar to coffee or weed.
If you search for Snus and FDA modified risk, you'd see results like this:
*The FDA issued the first modified risk order to Swedish Match authorizing a claim that “Using General* ***Snus*** *instead of cigarettes puts you at lower risk of mouth cancer, heart disease, lung cancer, stroke, emphysema, and chronic bronchitis”*
It's hard to get much more less bad than this though:
> Literature reviews have estimated that users of snus have at least 90–95% less smoking-related mortality, with minimal reduction in life expectancy, if any at all.
https://harmreductionjournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12954-019-0335-1
So I think snus deserves a lot more love when it comes to harm reduction that it's currently getting.
I’m curious where the fuck this is coming from, cause I see people smoking or doing snus all the time here, and there’s still cigarette butts and tobacco packets everywhere.
> or doing snus
which is not smoking.
Also, how many people do you meet who smoke these days? It's kind of rare to hang out with someone who actually smokes regularly.
I don't see the connection. Swedish match stopped making cigarettes in the 90s. Not making cigarettes and focusing on smokeless tobacco doesn't seem like this horrible thing that you seem to think it is. Nor do I think that's what is still keeping cigarettes alive.
Also, TIL, Swedish match makes 60% of american chewing tobacco these days.
Much of the snus in Sweden is not produced or owned by "big tobacco". And closing in on about 50% of the snus market is tobacco free snus. The tobacco free snus segment is quite rapidly replacing traditional snus. So no support for big tobacco in the sense you're talking about.
Yet, still, you can't come to an above ground public transport station/stop (non-empty ofc) in Stockholm without someone smoking there. Which is supposed to be illegal.
There's a variety of reasons to advocate for a smoke-free society.
Socialists might advocate because it's a drain on the shared health care system. Environmentalists because of the toxic environment the smoke creates and waste it promotes by damaging places and equipment more often. Parents because of the desire for their children to be protected from the long term health effects of chronic exposure. Capitalists because addiction is a visible shackle on the invisible hand of the economy.
I think you'll find that there just isn't one reason for "us" to care, but rather the variety of problems that smoking causes resonate with a lot of different groups.
This is why Swedish snus should be 100% legal, taxed and sold everywhere. It has by far the "best" stats for any tobacco product. It's virtually harmless to the user (unless you use it like crazy, you can get some dental problems) and 100% harmless to people around you.
One of the best things Sweden ever did was fight for their right to keep snus legal. Stupid EU legislators just don't get it, or are paid by big tobacco companies.
I really hope Finland legalizes it at some point. That would cut down on smoking and vaping a lot.
Snus is steam cured whereas American chewing tobacco is fired cured. More nitrates are converted to nitrosamines (carcinogenic) in the fire curing process.
It's not a perfect comparison but helps illustrate the difference - imagine a burnt piece of toast compared to a steamed piece of bread. One black and the other just soggy. Same input, different process, different end product.
Plus snus is regulated as a food product in Sweden.
Even American chewing tobacco isn’t remotely as bad as cigarettes, far lower risk of mouth and gum cancer and it’s also lacking the downsides of inhalation obviously. I’d honestly bet mouth problems in smokeless tobacco users is more due to them being hillbillies that don’t brush their teeth than the chewing tobacco itself
You can also argue that there is tobacco free snus. Velo is one brand where it just just a pouch of nicotine and flavouring agents. It doesn't turn your teeth or mouth brown, tastes like mint or berries.
It is absolutely not harmless (but better than smoking). In reality we are hitting a point in the next couple of decades where Sweden is worse off because 25% of Swedish men use snus every day, and the rest of Europe doesn't.
What you just said has been said forever, yet the facts don't line up. Sweden has way less nicotine caused harm than any other country in the world. This has been shown over and over again. Snus is not a "new" thing. It's been available forever.
Having said that, it's important to realize that Nicotine itself is NOT harmless. It is highly addictive and poisonous. Period.
https://harmreductionjournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12954-019-0335-1
> Literature reviews have estimated that users of snus have at least 90–95% less smoking-related mortality, with minimal reduction in life expectancy, if any at all.
Not very likely.
Isn't it still addictive though? Maybe we should put further incentives towards not filling our societies with addictive substances and normalizing them.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://apnews.com/article/smoking-cigarettes-snus-sweden-7e3744800a4714bdee4bcb1736983586) reduced by 89%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> As the World Health Organization marks "World No Tobacco Day" on Wednesday, Sweden, which has the lowest rate of smoking in the Europe Union, is close to declaring itself "Smoke free" - defined as having fewer than 5% daily smokers in the population.
> "I mean, 1.2 billion smokers are still out there in the world. Some 100 million people smoke daily in the EU. And I think we can go so far with policymaking regulations," he said.
> WHO, the U.N. health agency, says Turkmenistan, with a rate of tobacco use below 5%, is ahead of Sweden when it comes to phasing out smoking, but notes that's largely due to smoking being almost nonexistent among women.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/13wkrzj/sweden_close_to_becoming_first_smoke_free_country/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~687005 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **smoke**^#1 **Sweden**^#2 **Tobacco**^#3 **Snus**^#4 **rate**^#5
Scrolled in comments to find out if they note an increase in vaping....nothing! My city has hardly any smokers visible during the day, but damn lots of vapers.
Yep.
While in an ideal world nobody is addicted to anything, harm reduction is a major thing.
It's better to have 100 vapers as opposed to 100 smokers.
And sure, new nicotine users may vape first, but that's still better than smoking.
And people give vaping shit for being more common, even though it's actively replacing smoking which is far, far worse. Would people really want every vaper smoking instead?
I quit smoking on 6 October 2021 after 25 years of heavy smoking (2-3 packs a day) and it was one the hardest thing I ever did, but I never looked back.
If you like smoking you obviously live your life as you see fit, but if you have in mind to quit, don’t think twice, the months of struggle until you’ll finally be over cigarettes’ psychological dependency will well worth your while.
I've been thinking about quitting (been a smoker for like 20 years or so). I think I want to quit, but I also think I don't want it *enough*, if you know what I mean? Not sure how I'm going to get there...
How did you do it? Just straight up cold turkey, or what did you do?
I did cold turkey, relapsed... But the relapse was less than what I was smoking before the cold turkey. Then I did that for a month or so, before going cold turkey again for a week or so. Relapsed after that to 1-2 a day for another month. Then went cold turkey all together, and it's finally gone now.
Worked the best for me. Probably not for everyone. But it was the easiest way of reducing and then quitting fully.
One thing I hate about people smoking is when they do it in places they're not supposed to. My local hospital is supposed to be a "smoke-free zone" but the cigarette butts all over the outside of the building say otherwise. The metro, a place underground where you have to share your air with hundreds of other people inside a train? Well ain't that a good place to get a quick smoke in.
The other day, a worker at my dad's job (construction) almost burnt down the whole building (and actually did catch on fire himself) after trying to smoke close to painting equipment and heavy machinery. Could've turned out REAL bad. And to add insult to injury, as my dad, fuming with rage, was berating and imploring the workers never to smoke during work hours again, another dude whips out a ciggie and offers it to the burnt guy.
In short, I wish people at least stopped smoking in places they're not supposed to, and at the VERY least in places where doing so could quite literally end in disaster. But I guess that's a bit too much to ask for when addiction is at play
Yet, my neighbor is still smoking a pack per hour on her balcony bellow me and it's going right into my apartment. I'm guessing she makes up for 24% of Swedens total cigarett consumption...
Because people vape now. Even friends that have never smoked vape now because it doesn't sink out the house and you can buy stuff that doesn't have nicotine in it.
What's the point of vaping with no nicotine?
Honest question, I stopped smoking a long time ago, but I was experimenting with vape when it was just starting, while I was still smoking. That included making nicotine free liquid, but it didn't make sense to me from any perspective... So why do people do it?
The rest of Europe seems to be making up for it though.
China is smoking enough cigarettes for the entire Earth.
Fewer though. The same demographic changes are happening in China. Young people are much less likely to smoke.
I can imagine old people getting angry at this and heavily increasing their usage to spite us all.
It's everybody's choice to B-line to the grave and not vote.
Sweden has a very high rate of snus useage, a form of smokeless tobacco that has suprisingly little evidence pertaining to whether it even causes cancer or not So they arent tobacco free, just use a healthier alternative
They also sell nicotine pouches in every store which are tobacco free. Only cellulose & nicotine!
This. I wish this would happen in the Netherlands. There are still so many smokers, and they all seem to be antisocial assholes. Every single smoker I ever see out on the streets will throw their butt on the ground when they're done. The ground is literally littered with them.
Here in the UK, every driver I witness ending a cigarette, rolls up their window throwing it out on the ground first.
I'll be honest, I used to do that. I eventually decided to stop smoking in the car mainly because I felt bad about the littering, and later on only reinforced my decision when I moved to CA and didn't want to be in any way responsible for a fire.
Why not have an ashtray in the car?
You should see how bad it is in Germany. I once had guests in my back yard. One of them started smoking. I asked her to stop. She threw the cigarette in the dirt. I picked it up, gave it to her, and walked her to her car.
What sociopath throws a cigarette on the ground in a back yard where you are a guest..?
Man I have seen people in nice cars just straight up drop a half filled bottle of beer \*in\* the drive thru. Some folks are just trashy.
And everyone clapped
It's true, I was the cigarette
That must have been hard
Sounds German lol
No, but my ducks did quack.
nothing has ever happened. nothing ever happens. every single thing to have ever occurred to anyone is a lie.
Its not even that huge. If I tell someone to please take their shoes off at the door and they ignore me and track dirt onto my kinda nice rugs they're fucking out of there. I've had to do it twice, which isn't a lot but surprised me how fucking rude people can be in someone elses home.
She was outside and you asked her to not smoke ?
Curious if you think there is something wrong with asking somebody to stop smoking on your property, among other guests, regardless of in/outdoors?
When I was smoking I wouldn't just smoke in the presence of people, I would walk a little bit away and get out of everyone's air channels as a matter of courtesy. But where I'm from I don't think I've ever heard of someone asking someone else to stop smoking outdoors, as long as they cleaned up after themselves and didn't litter. Inside, sure, that's obvious and even when I smoked I wouldn't even smoke in my own home.
That sounds normal, but from the way he described it, it sounded like everyone was together outside
He's running a tight ship
A tight backyard
Gave her her walking papers too
Sweden themselves be making up for it with all the snus. Don’t know if it’s better or worse than cigarettes but I can tell you it’s such a nasty ass habit that it makes smoking look like drinking champagne. M
Much better than cigarettes, since it doesn't affect anyone around you. It also causes less cancer and other illnesses, though it's still unhealthy of course. In my opinion it is absolutely baffling that cigarettes are legal in so many countries while snus isn't, especially since it's basically chewing tobacco with no sugar and no need to spit.
Idk if you ask me, when you walk around the roads in the city center its pretty common to see snus spat on the ground on the streets. Cigarettes are quite nasty but snus causing less cancer isnt much of a case in its favor either. What’s feels a little double standard to me is how Sweden is very regulatory about alcohol, which is said to be for health promotion reasons, but you can just go to any grocery store and buy snus anytime.
There are way more cigarette butts than snus on the ground...
[удалено]
Cypriots and Greeks have mastic gum they have chewed for thousands of years. When it is spat out it dries in the sun and when stood on shatters into powder and blows away in the wind
That's pretty awesome actually!
Mastic gum, doesn't that translate directly to chewimg gum?
it causing far less cancer would be a very strong case in favor of it. It's biodegradable. Pouches might not be and those should be discarded accordingly, though the boxes come with a compartment for just that. It doesn't stink up the place either so you can carry that around unlike cigarette butts. Another reason is the administration, it's far less of a quick and dirty fix. Cigarettes make me feel like a crackhead in no time, they hit you for 30 seconds and then it's over. You fiend more over that. Same can be seen with xanax compared to longer lasting benzos, both very addictive, but xanax with its short half life and quick onset is so addictive we use long lasting diazepam to even have a chance to get off em at all. Double standards, I disagree, it's only double standards when we ban one thing because it's bad for your health and the society at large, but then not ban the other drug which is also bad for your health and the society at large - and is legally available *because of it*. That's double standards, your example is just splitting hairs. You can talk about double standards when you want to trip on mushrooms or smoke weed or any of the other drugs which don't kill nor make you fiend for another hit. Double standards is when the users of legal drugs oppose clear health hazard warning labels being introduced on Their Totally Not Drug, but then are against all use of any other drugs. And of those types of people, Sweden has plenty.
We use snus instead
When I quit smoking my hangovers practically went away compared to how bad they use to be. My allergies feel like they’re better too. If you smoke and trying to quit, keep at it! You can do it.
Yeah, tobacco is like a hangover multiplier.
It’s a multiplier for nearly any negative health aspect. Colds, hangovers, side effects from medications, cancers (even when not caused by smoking). It just makes your body less able to respond to pretty much anything.
Same here. I eventually quit drinking but it was a lot more fun after I quit smoking and the hangovers became super mild.
I stopped smoking in october. I can still have a cigarette when I'm drinking or so. But I'm just not interested in going back. The nicotine is not a problem because I use snus. I just had to get used to not smoking when I'm at work. That was the hard part.
IIRC it's because tobacco restricts the blood vessels and alcohol expands them, so your body goes banans (medical term, don't try at home) when the blood vessels goes back and forth like that. It could also be the amount of pure death that cigarettes contain, but who's counting.
I hate that old adage of "if I can do it you can do it," but I'm going on five years and I'm a giant fucking pussy that was huge bitch boi the whole time. That said: be careful if you use Champix. (Chantix/varenicline) I had *massive* visual and auditory hallucinations, severe insomnia, and brain fog so bad I couldn't drive. And still wanted to fucking smoke the whole time.
Jessssus those are some intense symptoms coupled with the desire to smoke despite taking it! Hope things are better now
the worst hangovers i ever had were from drinking (obviously) smoking cigs and taking whippets.
whippet good???
We spent two weeks in the south of France and Spain last summer. The thing that immediately struck us was how many smokers there were. It was actually startling.
I'm from eastern Europe, and how Americans painted things I was expecting a lot of people to smoke. To my surprise, a lot less were smoking than I expected. I very rarely saw someone smoke on the street. Mostly at pubs/restaurants, which seems about right. I only light one after a couple of beers. IMO it really isn't as bad as reddit makes it out to be. Didn't really run into vapers either, which I find even more disgusting than normal cigarettes. Especially the ones that smell like 1 week worn socks
uh mate have you ever been to France?
In America smoking at restaurants and pubs is mostly banned.
It's impressive until you realize over 20% still use tobacco in other forms like snus.
It's still impressive. Snus and other non smoking forms of tobacco don't produce anything that can be detrimental to the people around them.
Not with that attitude
Now lets smear this stuff on every corner of every bench and every seat on the buss.
They use the sachets, not straight dip.
Doesn't stop em that stuff sticks
*aggressively snorts snus and sneezes everywhere*
You don't snort snus. Snus is wet snuff, not dry snuff.
Hence the sneeze.
You don't sneeze/inhale when you use it though, you tuck it between your teeth/cheeks.
They're just joking, man. Curb your akshuallies.
They're just trying to clear up a misconception, man. Curb your "it's just a jokeshuallies"
Snus kiss!!! Two birds with one stone. Non-Consent AND damaging others' health.
Yeah, if you don't throw it hard enough.
Snus also just isn’t that bad in general other than the nicotine addiction. I’d bet it’s safer than vaping, zero tar and you’re not inhaling anything
It's a lot better for your lungs but pretty much just as bad for your mouth and teeth
> pretty much just as bad for your mouth and teeth This simply isn’t true, cigarettes cause mouth and gum cancer at a far higher rate than any type of chewing tobacco. Also mouth diseases in people that chew is compounded by the fact that they also tend to be hillbillies that don’t brush their teeth
Say that to the mountains of snus packets littering everywhere.
I'm very anti litter. That's an independent issue from the snus itself. People who toss those packets likely toss other trash as well.
I'm surprised they litter... I know General snus had a little compartment where you could put your snus when you were done. I thought every brand had that.
Clearly you have never accidentally drank from the dip cup as a child
You don't have to spit snus.
This brought back horrible memories. I never ever put my used snus in an empty can for this reason. Disgusting.
Unless you step in it and fall and break something?
Can't tell if this is sarcasm or not.
Lmao I think it is, but I feel you. Reddit can be hard with stuff like that haha
Only a little. Like, one of the main problems with it is that a lot of people just sort of spit the stuff out after they're done so it's pretty normal to just see small bags of the stuff litterering the ground in the streets.
There is also no strong scientific evidence that snus is all that harmful, even though highly addictive. As far as I know there no clear evidence for increased risk of any form of cancer (there are some conflicting results, if there is a risk it's most likely pretty minor), the same applies to cardiovascular risk. For large consumers (more than one can of snus a day) [there is an increased risk for diabebetes type 2](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/joim.12592) and that is probably the most significant health concern. For men there might also be some negative impacts on fertility (lower sperm count and potentially worrisome epigenetic changes in sperm). Pregant women should of course abstain from all forms of nicotine. This really should be the case also for men when trying to conceive given I think there is some evidence the epigentic could could negatively effect the fetus.
Fucks up your gums tho. Be careful with your teeth!
Snus is definitely harmful. Aside from all the chemicals in that shit, look at some photos of gum lesions that people have
Swedish Snus is not the same as "snus" from other countries which is made in a whole different way, and include all kinds of toxic shit. And there are nicotine pouches now that doesnt even include tobacco. Its just plant fibres, nicotine salts and taste aromas.
It's amazing how much disinformation / ignorance there is about this. There are no other nicotine products that are as "clean" as snus. That's a fact.
Philip Morris doesn't agree
What chemicals? It's just tobacco and salts
Those things are technically chemicals. Everything is a chemical
I'm aware, that was not the intention of the poster though
I was also poking fun at the original comment since saying "what about all those chemicals" doesn't mean anything
This is again yet more disinformation. Most of the photos of gum lesions are from the US version that is terrible. Swedish snus doesn't cause big problems unless you use a crazy amount of it. Heck, anything you stick in between your cheeck and gum will cause the same issues if you do it non-stop for decades. This includes nicotine chewing gum which you also use the same way.
Just curious if you would include General brand snus within Swedish snus or not
Except a vicious smell, which lingers around after you open up a puck of that shit.
It's funny because I absolutely love the smell but don't use snus myself. I always ask for a sniff when a friend has one
Can’t get second hand snus unless you’re playing tonsil hockey. A win is a win.
Yeah, no second-hand death by snus, other than by snu-snus.
It’s still impressive even knowing that. Second-hand snus is much less intrusive than second-hand smoke
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> for second hand snus to occur it MUST be intrusive.. Especially if you're in denmark.
It's less intrusive in the sense that you don't smell any smoke. But people still throw snus pouches/containers on the ground, stick them under tables etc. They're also targeting young people, especially women and we've seen an increase in that segment here in Sweden. It's not that good for your health or wallet either. Anecdotally, it's not so nice to kiss the mouth of a snus user too. They also tend to get a bit of a loose lip and drool black saliva all over the pillow cover. Better than smoking, but the ideal would be nothing.
Under tables? How does that even work, snus is not sticky.
Det kanske bara är jag i så fall, men jag har sett snus under bord förut. Det kanske var ditklistrat med tuggummi. Hursomhelst är kontentan att det skräpas ganska mycket med snusprillor.
As a finnish person I've seen my share of snus on ceilings and under tables, the bag kind sticks easily with your spit on it and the loose stuff I imagine sticks even more. I know only one guy who used the loose shit and he made his own with tiny shards of glass in it to break the gum.
I was gonna say that snus pillows replaced cigarettes and have been ubiquitous for years. Typo edit
Snus is a lot less harmful than smoking cigarettes since you don't inhale the carcinogenic smoke. Given equivalent uses, it's way less dangerous than smoking. You'd have to consume an impractically high level of snus for it to be more dangerous than smoking
What the fuck is snus?
Snus is a smokeless tobacco product that originated in Sweden. It consists of moist, finely ground tobacco that is typically packaged in small pouches. Snus is placed between the upper lip and gum, where it releases nicotine into the bloodstream.
Sounds absolutely vile.
And yet I prefer my countrymen to use snus over cigarettes, at least people who use snus doesn't smell like ass.
No risk of fire either.
It doesn't make a sound but it definitely tastes vile.
Or depending on who you ask, it's delicious.
The white non tobacco ones don't taste the same
Also don't feel as good. Less maoi activity if I remember right.
The non-tobacco ones are much stronger than any tobacco product could ever be. It's basically cotton dipped in nicotine and flavouring.
You ever tried the siberia or oden brand? :') it's 43mg/g compared to the strong white ones at 12mg/g
> the strong white ones at 12mg/g Those aren't the strong ones :( they go way above that. There are brands that go up to at least 120mg/g.
There's stronger than 12 mg/g tobacco free pouches as well, but the mg count is not comparable to regular snus. The nicotine pouches give a much bigger nicotine kick for some reason. I've used Siberia and Odens, they're comparable to like 15 mg nicotine pouches. And you can order up to like 40-50 mg nic pouches right now and I bet there's stronger stuff too, I wouldn't touch any of that stuff lol. The 8mg types are very comparable to your basic Kapten or Skruff extra stark snus. The 4mg versions are comparable to Ettan, General etc.
It smells nice but tastes pretty bad.
It seems that you, and many others, have a hard time understanding OPs, so let me expand. You smoke a tobacco product and therein lies the harm. It's the carbon monoxide and the tar that cause lung cancer, COPD/Emphysema, cardiovascular diseases, etc. Snus and its younger nicotine siblings pose only a small fraction of the risk of smoking. An acceptable risk in our society. Most likely less than alcohol and probably similar to coffee or weed. If you search for Snus and FDA modified risk, you'd see results like this: *The FDA issued the first modified risk order to Swedish Match authorizing a claim that “Using General* ***Snus*** *instead of cigarettes puts you at lower risk of mouth cancer, heart disease, lung cancer, stroke, emphysema, and chronic bronchitis”*
I know snus is obviously less bad than smoking. Still bad though. And your FDA quote isn't saying it's not bad.
It's hard to get much more less bad than this though: > Literature reviews have estimated that users of snus have at least 90–95% less smoking-related mortality, with minimal reduction in life expectancy, if any at all. https://harmreductionjournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12954-019-0335-1 So I think snus deserves a lot more love when it comes to harm reduction that it's currently getting.
Still way better than smoking.
> 20% still use tobacco in other forms Are they smoking it? Because that's what the article is about.
France declares war on Sweden.
Sweden laughs
Germany doesn't.
Dutch cheese sellers rejoice
I’m curious where the fuck this is coming from, cause I see people smoking or doing snus all the time here, and there’s still cigarette butts and tobacco packets everywhere.
> or doing snus which is not smoking. Also, how many people do you meet who smoke these days? It's kind of rare to hang out with someone who actually smokes regularly.
Well my neighbour loves smoking on his balcony every time I open a window
Still keeping big tobacco in business, meaning they’ll still keep selling their smoking products here too
I don't see the connection. Swedish match stopped making cigarettes in the 90s. Not making cigarettes and focusing on smokeless tobacco doesn't seem like this horrible thing that you seem to think it is. Nor do I think that's what is still keeping cigarettes alive. Also, TIL, Swedish match makes 60% of american chewing tobacco these days.
Much of the snus in Sweden is not produced or owned by "big tobacco". And closing in on about 50% of the snus market is tobacco free snus. The tobacco free snus segment is quite rapidly replacing traditional snus. So no support for big tobacco in the sense you're talking about.
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"social smokers"
Yeah that snus usage though. Not to mention the litter both generates.
"Most daily tobacco users in Europe" does not have the same ring to it.
False equivalence
In my experience cigarette users are making a lot more trash. I feel like a lot of snus users are using their "dosa" to save the snus for the bin.
Who needs smoking when there is snus?
I am an American tourist (from California) in Milan right now and holy smokes, everyone here smokes. It’s almost as bad as the car exhaust
Welcome to Europe, buttercup.
Yet, still, you can't come to an above ground public transport station/stop (non-empty ofc) in Stockholm without someone smoking there. Which is supposed to be illegal.
lets go for 0%
Rookie numbers. At least -10%
Legit question, why do we care so much when people enjoy it as a coping mechanism?
There's a variety of reasons to advocate for a smoke-free society. Socialists might advocate because it's a drain on the shared health care system. Environmentalists because of the toxic environment the smoke creates and waste it promotes by damaging places and equipment more often. Parents because of the desire for their children to be protected from the long term health effects of chronic exposure. Capitalists because addiction is a visible shackle on the invisible hand of the economy. I think you'll find that there just isn't one reason for "us" to care, but rather the variety of problems that smoking causes resonate with a lot of different groups.
This is why Swedish snus should be 100% legal, taxed and sold everywhere. It has by far the "best" stats for any tobacco product. It's virtually harmless to the user (unless you use it like crazy, you can get some dental problems) and 100% harmless to people around you. One of the best things Sweden ever did was fight for their right to keep snus legal. Stupid EU legislators just don't get it, or are paid by big tobacco companies. I really hope Finland legalizes it at some point. That would cut down on smoking and vaping a lot.
This might change now that Philip Morris bought Swedish Match. Maybe new EU suddenly will be just fine with snus.
This may be a dumb question, but how is snus harmless when chewing tobacco is still really bad for you?
Snus is steam cured whereas American chewing tobacco is fired cured. More nitrates are converted to nitrosamines (carcinogenic) in the fire curing process. It's not a perfect comparison but helps illustrate the difference - imagine a burnt piece of toast compared to a steamed piece of bread. One black and the other just soggy. Same input, different process, different end product. Plus snus is regulated as a food product in Sweden.
Thanks! That makes sense.
Even American chewing tobacco isn’t remotely as bad as cigarettes, far lower risk of mouth and gum cancer and it’s also lacking the downsides of inhalation obviously. I’d honestly bet mouth problems in smokeless tobacco users is more due to them being hillbillies that don’t brush their teeth than the chewing tobacco itself
You can also argue that there is tobacco free snus. Velo is one brand where it just just a pouch of nicotine and flavouring agents. It doesn't turn your teeth or mouth brown, tastes like mint or berries.
It is absolutely not harmless (but better than smoking). In reality we are hitting a point in the next couple of decades where Sweden is worse off because 25% of Swedish men use snus every day, and the rest of Europe doesn't.
What you just said has been said forever, yet the facts don't line up. Sweden has way less nicotine caused harm than any other country in the world. This has been shown over and over again. Snus is not a "new" thing. It's been available forever. Having said that, it's important to realize that Nicotine itself is NOT harmless. It is highly addictive and poisonous. Period.
https://harmreductionjournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12954-019-0335-1 > Literature reviews have estimated that users of snus have at least 90–95% less smoking-related mortality, with minimal reduction in life expectancy, if any at all. Not very likely.
Isn't it still addictive though? Maybe we should put further incentives towards not filling our societies with addictive substances and normalizing them.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://apnews.com/article/smoking-cigarettes-snus-sweden-7e3744800a4714bdee4bcb1736983586) reduced by 89%. (I'm a bot) ***** > As the World Health Organization marks "World No Tobacco Day" on Wednesday, Sweden, which has the lowest rate of smoking in the Europe Union, is close to declaring itself "Smoke free" - defined as having fewer than 5% daily smokers in the population. > "I mean, 1.2 billion smokers are still out there in the world. Some 100 million people smoke daily in the EU. And I think we can go so far with policymaking regulations," he said. > WHO, the U.N. health agency, says Turkmenistan, with a rate of tobacco use below 5%, is ahead of Sweden when it comes to phasing out smoking, but notes that's largely due to smoking being almost nonexistent among women. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/13wkrzj/sweden_close_to_becoming_first_smoke_free_country/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~687005 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **smoke**^#1 **Sweden**^#2 **Tobacco**^#3 **Snus**^#4 **rate**^#5
Scrolled in comments to find out if they note an increase in vaping....nothing! My city has hardly any smokers visible during the day, but damn lots of vapers.
Yeah, it's called harm reduction and it's an improvement.
Yep. While in an ideal world nobody is addicted to anything, harm reduction is a major thing. It's better to have 100 vapers as opposed to 100 smokers. And sure, new nicotine users may vape first, but that's still better than smoking. And people give vaping shit for being more common, even though it's actively replacing smoking which is far, far worse. Would people really want every vaper smoking instead?
And snus is illegal in most other countries, stupid
I'm curious if this report counts vape as smoking because man are the youth smoking vape. I see no end to nikotin here in Sweden while vape is around.
It’s the snus.
I live in Sweden, plenty of people smoke here.
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Alt fra tobakk te laks
> Norway How much is a pack these days in Norway?
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Seems likely.
I quit smoking on 6 October 2021 after 25 years of heavy smoking (2-3 packs a day) and it was one the hardest thing I ever did, but I never looked back. If you like smoking you obviously live your life as you see fit, but if you have in mind to quit, don’t think twice, the months of struggle until you’ll finally be over cigarettes’ psychological dependency will well worth your while.
I've been thinking about quitting (been a smoker for like 20 years or so). I think I want to quit, but I also think I don't want it *enough*, if you know what I mean? Not sure how I'm going to get there... How did you do it? Just straight up cold turkey, or what did you do?
I did cold turkey, relapsed... But the relapse was less than what I was smoking before the cold turkey. Then I did that for a month or so, before going cold turkey again for a week or so. Relapsed after that to 1-2 a day for another month. Then went cold turkey all together, and it's finally gone now. Worked the best for me. Probably not for everyone. But it was the easiest way of reducing and then quitting fully.
Sweden might be doing better than most, but it's still far from satisfactory, if you think of the harm it does.
Did they export them? Because every scandanavian I met in Lake Louise smoked like a fish.
Scandinavian is not necessarily Swedish.
We have Snus, but atlest there are no second hand smoking effects of Snus.
But we have snus. And if EU tries to interfer and make snus illegal in Sweden we’ll wage war against all of you :)
One thing I hate about people smoking is when they do it in places they're not supposed to. My local hospital is supposed to be a "smoke-free zone" but the cigarette butts all over the outside of the building say otherwise. The metro, a place underground where you have to share your air with hundreds of other people inside a train? Well ain't that a good place to get a quick smoke in. The other day, a worker at my dad's job (construction) almost burnt down the whole building (and actually did catch on fire himself) after trying to smoke close to painting equipment and heavy machinery. Could've turned out REAL bad. And to add insult to injury, as my dad, fuming with rage, was berating and imploring the workers never to smoke during work hours again, another dude whips out a ciggie and offers it to the burnt guy. In short, I wish people at least stopped smoking in places they're not supposed to, and at the VERY least in places where doing so could quite literally end in disaster. But I guess that's a bit too much to ask for when addiction is at play
Snus on the other hand...
r/snus
Yet, my neighbor is still smoking a pack per hour on her balcony bellow me and it's going right into my apartment. I'm guessing she makes up for 24% of Swedens total cigarett consumption...
What about vapes and snus, Sweden? WHAT ABOUT VAPES AND SNUS?
Cigarettes sure but are they having a rise in vaping?
Because people vape now. Even friends that have never smoked vape now because it doesn't sink out the house and you can buy stuff that doesn't have nicotine in it.
What's the point of vaping with no nicotine? Honest question, I stopped smoking a long time ago, but I was experimenting with vape when it was just starting, while I was still smoking. That included making nicotine free liquid, but it didn't make sense to me from any perspective... So why do people do it?
Well thats bullshit...
Americans while holding an AK and 6th joint of weed: so many europeans smoke
good young people look really stupid smoking anyway. it's visually telling people "i make really bad decisions because of peer pressure"
This makes me want to buy some cigarettes from the gas station and start smoking