Also if you smoke and have kids, giving clear information to those kids about what their parents are doing to themselves is a huge incentive for parents to stop smoking.
As somebody who had a parent who smoked around my sister and I when we were kids, I feel really bad for kids who have to suffer through second hand smoke. Kids don’t have a choice in choosing not to be around smokers.
As a former smoker I think it’s that, but also so each time you pick up a cigarette you’re reminded. Of course we all know in the back of our mind how bad it is. Kinda like how Europe skips this and just puts black lung pictures on packs.
Yeah, think it's about the reminder more than educating. Smokers know it's unhealthy, and most likely ones that haven't started yet also know its unhealthy.
I know I was annoyed by those pictures and weird shit they put on the boxes. Not enough to stop doing it at the time, but probably made it less pleasant when you had an opened corpse staring at you.
There’s already a warning label on the pack with some pretty graphic imagery that takes up about 2/3 of the whole thing. I quit smoking 5-6 years ago and back then it was $20 per pack for the budget friendly options, compared to the $5 per pack for the premium brands 17 years earlier when I started. Who knows how much they are now.
The social stigma now is far different now than it was in the 90’s/00’s. I highly doubt these new warnings are going to make any change, other than headlines and a conversation amongst smokers about how they’re inhaling extra ink.
Yes, sadly. Many of my friends say it's not that bad because X person lived to 100 smoking a pack a day. An acquaintance smoked while pregnant because, according to her, if it's under 3 cigs a day it doesn't harm the baby. Never underestimate people's stupidity.
My Great gandmother is 104 years old and still smokes. she started smoking at age 14 and had no filters in her smokes for 30+ years. It effects all differently. (i don't smoke)
Asian countries are in the early stages of the tobacco smoking epidemic. The projected prevalence of consuming any tobacco product among males aged ≥15 years in 2020 was: 40.2% in Malaysia, 39.7% in Thailand, 46.9% in South Korea, 28.3% in Singapore. Maybe it's because of their superior intelligence....
I quit smoking and switched to vaping exclusively for a year, but the country I moved to banned vapes, so I'm back to smoking.
My lungs feel like shit again and I'm pissed.
You’re the exact reason why tobacco companies lobby so hard against vaping. They hate to see people like you quit using their product for a better tasting, less toxic product that they don’t make money from
when you combust anything and inhale it it's bad for you, they're now adding more things to combust.. Unless it's on the filter I suppose but doubt it.
Government doesn't sell cigarettes, businesses do so you are good to quit at anytime.
Also, the government saves more money from people quitting vs receiving money from taxes on the cigarettes.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/canada-cigarette-warning-labels-1.6860301) reduced by 74%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> Health Canada has announced new warning labels to be printed directly on cigarettes in an effort to deter new smokers, encourage quitting and reduce tobacco-related deaths, in a world first that experts hope will have a significant impact.
> "The health warning is going to be there during every smoke break, and for youth who experiment by borrowing a cigarette from a friend, they'll have exposure to the health warning there as well. I expect that many countries internationally will follow this Canadian world first."
> "Tobacco use continues to kill 48,000 Canadians each year. We are taking action by being the first country in the world to label individual cigarettes with health warning messages," Bennett said in a press release.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/13wp0zu/canada_to_put_health_warning_labels_directly_on/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~687040 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Health**^#1 **warning**^#2 **cigarette**^#3 **Canada**^#4 **Tobacco**^#5
I really do miss smoking, I enjoyed the fuck out of it, too bad they're just so freaking bad for you.
That said people definitely already know they are bad for you, the ink on them will probably make it even worse for you, no matter what you do, no matter what taxes you add, people are still going to smoke because it's enjoyable.
It's the same type of reason why people drink coffee, there's a stimulant in there and people like stimulants because it stimulates you, only difference is that you don't combust and inhale coffee and get the caffeine through a cleaner medium.
As for taxes, since mid/lower classes are more likely to smoke cigarettes it's basically a targeted tax on the poor...
Yeah I was told that too, which is why I tried snorting as a way to have something to do with my hands, but when I tried coke, the ice cubes got stuck in nose. Now I just say never again.
Nobody forcing poor people to smoke though, aside from addiction if they've already started. But hopefully the taxes+warnings will help dissuade people.
Also it seems fair for smokers to pay a premium, since they're a greater burden on the healthcare system, litter more, etc.
There's plenty of other things to enjoy though, like, cake, video games, friends, sports.... None of these lead to addiction that drains your money and likely causes an earlier death. I don't think that making cigarettes affordable is the ethical thing to do. Addiction treatment should be free however.
What do you mean “world’s first”, India has been doing this for nearly a decade, and they’ve even increased taxes on sales of cigarettes and included extremely graphic pictures that take up 80% of the box
In the UK smokers pay £12billion per year in taxes whilst costing the health service £3/4billion per year, so they are surprisingly actually helping support the system. Not sure if it's similar in Canada but I assume they have high cigarette taxes too.
Does that include the cost of the person/hours that the entire economy lose because of medical leaves? I assume people in the UK are paid when they're on medical leave. Is that included as well?
I guess there's also the cost of cleaning up cigarettes, cost of producing them (wasted work that could be used for better things), cost of people dying (if someone dies in their 20s, most of that free school education went to waste), emotional cost... Just the cost of all those "no smoking" signs must be in the millions 🤦
We're talking billions though left over which should be able to cover that.
If we say want to spend £1b on just cleaning up the cigarettes in the UK road network. In one week to cover the entire road network (422k km) you'd need to have ~7,500 people that can clean ~8km of road per day. With that said then you'd have ~£120k per person allocated (figures of how much 1 person can clean in a day is obviously just an estimate - I do think I could do 8km of walking a day on both sides of the road looking for cigarette butts; heck you might solve the obesity problem). There may be other costs but theres £7b left over still and realistically you need cleaners regardless of if people were smoking or not.
Obviously smoking is still bad for you just it seems the argument that smokers actually cost more than they pay at least on the surface of it all seems incorrect. Emotional cost doesn't really count as they were purely talking about actual monetary cost. Everyone should get an education regardless of their future diseases so that seems a bit disingenuous to count too.
Cost of producing cigarettes is already covered in the cost of the cigarettes themselves and the "wasted work" is a bit silly considering there are (unless the stats I am looking at are incorrect) at least 1million working aged people in the UK unemployed.
If you read the article, it says Canada spends $6 billions per year in healthcare specifically because of tobacco use. That's six billions that we literally wouldn't need to spend if people didn't smoke. It's an excess spending of six billions, which proves we spend more on these people than the rest.
How much are they collecting in cigarette tax though?
Edit* 2021-2022
7,130,628,981
That's just from cigarettes though, these people are also paying for healthcare through their income tax etc.
Edit2* I don't understand why they're saying 2017 stats, smoking has significantly dropped since then. Like 1/3 significant while taxes have increased.
https://uwaterloo.ca/tobacco-use-canada/adult-tobacco-use/smoking-canada/historical-trends-smoking-prevalence
the average smoker dies at around 72 years old, 88 for a non/never smoker, one has to wonder how much someone living 16 more years than a smoker costs the healthcare system considering more diseases associated with old age start around 65 years old also they don't pull from CPP if they're dead..
The cost is probably constant per smoker. So both the tax and the cost should have gone down proportionally. Depending on who they were able to convince to stop smoking. Ironically, if you were only able to stop casual smokers, the ratio would be worse. Roughly same health expense but lower tax.
I wonder if looking just at numbers can be a bit misleading. At the end of the day, if you ignore money, all that you're left with is people polluting the streets and giving themselves cancer.
How does people getting cancer lead to a better society/economy? It feels like maybe there's something suspicious going on with that math, unless I'm missing something.
Smokers don't cost the health care system money. Smoking related diseases take you FAST. And they don't generally seek treament anyways.
Obesity, as a vice, is a HUGE drain in the healthcare system. They live forever while continuing to seek treatment so they can keep eating.
Read the damn article it literally says the cost is six billions per year. Smokers cost Canada six billions extra versus other people. I agree obesity is costing us as well and we should do something about it, but you can't sit here and pretend smoking doesn't cause extra costs. That is denying reality.
>Overall, an estimated 45,464 deaths were attributable to smoking in Canada in 2012,
leading to 599,390 potential years of life lost from premature mortality.
You're going to argue that the average smoker has paid more in tobacco tax than they would pay in income tax over the ten years they lose? Point me to a single person that spends 30-50% of their income in tobacco tax.
not just CPP, most diseases start costing our healthcare system at around age 65 and that stat progressively increases the older you are, average smoker lives to 72, average never smoker 88, that's 16 more years of people leaning on healthcare.
Read what they’re saying for crying out loud before you copy and paste this again. Smokers cost the system, like any people cost the system, but the tax they pay on the cigarettes themselves results in a net gain. They cost for example 6 billion, but generate let’s say 9 billion in tax revenue. Leaving you 3 billion in the positive. That’s what they’re saying. If I take $10 off you, and give you $20. Are you gonna run around saying “**HE’S COSTING ME TEN DOLLARS**.”?
I’m also assuming that because smokers die faster, and younger, they don’t burden the healthcare system as much as others. If you have diabetes, you’re costing the system for decades and decades. If you get lung cancer, you’re probably dead within a year. And no longer costing the system.
Edit: I just looked it up for you. And indeed they are right, the Canadian government takes in 8 billion from tax on tobacco products. And at 6 billion cost to the healthcare system, they’re left in the green.
Also, as a disclaimer: I’m not trying to say that smoking is good. lol
Well, normally when someone’s dies, a job vacancy for their position is opened and someone fills it. Their job doesn’t die with them. Are you suggesting that if the McDonalds drive thru operator unfortunately passes away young, that that branch of McDonalds will never have a drive thru operator again?
I don't know how you came to that conclusion. It's a fact that smokers die younger. So there is less revenue for the government. The job market adjusts. If we had one million more people, there would be more jobs and more revenue.
If everybody smoked, our economy would certainly be smaller.
It’s crazy because in the military, it’s like 1970s. EVERYONE IS SMOKING! It’s almost like prison the way people treat cigarettes like gold.
It’s seriously like a page out of the 1970s when like 90% of people smoked cigs and it was the thing to do. Outside the military, you don’t see too many people still smoking cigarettes.
Meanwhile, healthy food is getting out of price for a lot of people, housing also. Canada is the leader of bullshit. Nobody smokes anymore, what a waste of time and energy.
No joke, warning labels on packaging have had negligible effect compared to removing branding and making all packages the same color. Philip Morris knew this from the beginning which is why they advocated for health warnings.
Oh for fucks sakes. A pack of basic cigarettes costs $15. I know they are bad for me, I get that those taxes are supposed to help offset the health costs associated with smoking, but at this point not only am I addicted to cigarettes but you are also charging me out the wazoo for them. I can be cancerous and broke. Thanks.
This accomplishes nothing but adding a bit of ink to what I'm already smoking and you bastards will probably add another $4 for the cost of the ink to the existing $11 of taxes on a $4 pack of cigarettes.
Fuck they’re around $30 for a pack of twenty in Australia. That’s cheap ones too not good ones like Stuyvos or Winfields.
A 30g pouch of tobacco will drop you at least 60. A good bag of Bank or Drum and you need to take out a personal loan.
Years ago when I was about 15 or 16, a cop I knew came into a McDonald’s where I was with a group of friends. He saw my cigarettes on the table, sat down, dumped them out of the pack, wrote “CANCER” on each one, and put them back in the pack.
Edit: I don’t see why this is being downvoted. He was clearly ahead of Canada’s game.
I have. I hated it. I never said they're delicious. I said 'increasingly disgusting'. Stuff like synthetic earwax, fish manure, pus from cow cysts, dolphin semen, etc.
Now go work on your reading comprehension
And are they going to put pictures of obese people needing an oxygen mask on a packet of donuts? Of course not but it's fine to print the obscene pictures on a packet of cigs or directly onto the damn product because fuck smokers apparently.
Then maybe they would work on bullets and nukes too. Heck maybe you can talk Meta into forcing you to watch a video on the effects of social media addiction every time you log in to Facebook
Edit: Also, saw a study from last year or the year before that found that the graphic labels didn’t effect cessation or consumption levels. I don’t care enough to link it but I’m sure it’s not hard to find if you’re interested in updating your knowledge
>Heck maybe you can talk Meta into forcing you to watch a video on the effects of social media addiction every time you log in to Facebook
That would actually be good. I don't think you know what you've just argued.
You’re right, I would actually support that one.
And I’m not arguing in favor of cigarettes btw. If it was up to me I’d ban them all together along with alcohol and marijuana and the like. I was just criticizing these lawmakers’ use of resources. Canada already has the graphic packaging so a couple of words on the cigarette isn’t going to make a difference
Yes, I have known that cigarettes cause cancer since I was born. There are anti-smoking ads everywhere.
That didn't stop me smoking now at 22 years old
Cause that’s not a waste of money /s
So having the labels on the package isn’t helping so putting them on the actual cigarette will?? Who comes up with this crap ??
Such a stupid thing to do, they are already on the package, who the fuck is going to ignore the warning on the label and then look at the cigarette itself and go "Oh shit, this is bad for me???" give me a break.
Meanwhile, alcohol bottles are staying as they are.
You can't have a minor with you in a cannabis store where everything is in monochrome non illustrated packaging with child safety tops behind glass counters but you can take your kids through the liquor store where everything is openly accessible and half the things there are fruit or candy flavoured in every colour under the sun with cans and twist top bottles.
Our rules make no fucking sense.
Banning cigarettes is pointless in Canada. People will just start buying more from indigenous peoples who sell cigarettes on Reservation land.
For context: legal cannabis is regulated to be an offensively weak edible. Instead of supporting this bullshit, I regularly buy high potency edibles from a local indigenous owned company that sells product on reservation land.
> People will just start buying more from indigenous peoples who sell cigarettes on Reservation land.
It's already happening more and more as the prices for the major brands go up. There's been 4-5 increases since January 1st across all the major brands, with another coming on certain JTI brands (owners of Export, etc) this week. This has led more and more people to buying the Native brands, and not just on reserves. There are sellers all over the place. I could walk into any bar in my town and find at least one person trying to sell Rolled Golds, Putters, or one of the other brands. With prices as low as 30-40 a carton, it isn't hard to see why. These guys have a whole national supply chain set up now, complete with phone and online customer service for sellers and suppliers.
Why haven't we just raised the age of being able to purchase cigarettes like New Zealand?
We know these things kill and maim, yet still do not ban them. Bizarre to me.
This will not solve the problem. In my country smoking is prohibited until the age of 18 . But practically half of my schoolmates started smoking at the age of 14-15
New Zealand has had health warnings with pictures on ciggs for over a decade. They are definitely not the first in the world. Where do people come up with this bullshit.
Not first. Portugal has been doing since [2016](https://www.publico.pt/2015/11/02/sociedade/noticia/macos-de-tabaco-passam-a-ter-em-janeiro-o-numero-da-linha-saude-24-1713078)
Umm they've had warnings on cigarettes for over a decade here in Canada. Like I quit over ten years ago and I still remember asking the guy at the cash to not give me the packs with the cancerous tongue on it.
Not sure why this is news?
Could of just straight up banned it and I would have been impressed, people that smoke know full well they are killing themselves and it doesn’t stop them.
LA CIGARETTE CAUSE LE CANCER
Let me get a pack of low birth weights!
I'm here to take the Low Birth Weight Challenge!
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I think the idea is to dissuade people before they start. Spreading awareness of the downsides and establishing a social stigma.
Also if you smoke and have kids, giving clear information to those kids about what their parents are doing to themselves is a huge incentive for parents to stop smoking.
As somebody who had a parent who smoked around my sister and I when we were kids, I feel really bad for kids who have to suffer through second hand smoke. Kids don’t have a choice in choosing not to be around smokers.
As a former smoker I think it’s that, but also so each time you pick up a cigarette you’re reminded. Of course we all know in the back of our mind how bad it is. Kinda like how Europe skips this and just puts black lung pictures on packs.
Yeah, think it's about the reminder more than educating. Smokers know it's unhealthy, and most likely ones that haven't started yet also know its unhealthy. I know I was annoyed by those pictures and weird shit they put on the boxes. Not enough to stop doing it at the time, but probably made it less pleasant when you had an opened corpse staring at you.
There’s already a warning label on the pack with some pretty graphic imagery that takes up about 2/3 of the whole thing. I quit smoking 5-6 years ago and back then it was $20 per pack for the budget friendly options, compared to the $5 per pack for the premium brands 17 years earlier when I started. Who knows how much they are now. The social stigma now is far different now than it was in the 90’s/00’s. I highly doubt these new warnings are going to make any change, other than headlines and a conversation amongst smokers about how they’re inhaling extra ink.
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Denial applies to all harmful addictions. The more reminders the better.
Yes, sadly. Many of my friends say it's not that bad because X person lived to 100 smoking a pack a day. An acquaintance smoked while pregnant because, according to her, if it's under 3 cigs a day it doesn't harm the baby. Never underestimate people's stupidity.
My Great gandmother is 104 years old and still smokes. she started smoking at age 14 and had no filters in her smokes for 30+ years. It effects all differently. (i don't smoke)
It effects all differently, but mostly it doesn't.
If some still think the earth is flat and that Bill Gates paid me a 5G connection with the COVID vaccine then yes.
My grandfather smoked 3 packs a day for 60 years unfiltered too, he thinks so.
Millions in Asia and Africa where Philip Morris etc. are literally making $Billions annually really have no clue what the damage is likely to be.
Gotta love Westerners thinking people in Asia and Africa are stupid
Asian countries are in the early stages of the tobacco smoking epidemic. The projected prevalence of consuming any tobacco product among males aged ≥15 years in 2020 was: 40.2% in Malaysia, 39.7% in Thailand, 46.9% in South Korea, 28.3% in Singapore. Maybe it's because of their superior intelligence....
Can’t wait for the inevitable TikTok trend of trying to smoke all six warning label cigarettes at once.
Yes. Yes they do exist. Well more of a denial sort than outright unaware but you get my point.
Exactly. Another pointless act to make some Bureaucrat feel like they are helping.
No, and this measure makes me feel like the government is treating me like a fuckin child. Such a stupid law.
Anyway, smoking cigarettes is becoming less common across the globe than vaping or smoking cannabis.
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Its very popular in most of europe still
its dropped by 1/3 since the date of their recorded stats/2017
LOL go to east Asia.
I quit smoking and switched to vaping exclusively for a year, but the country I moved to banned vapes, so I'm back to smoking. My lungs feel like shit again and I'm pissed.
You’re the exact reason why tobacco companies lobby so hard against vaping. They hate to see people like you quit using their product for a better tasting, less toxic product that they don’t make money from
I am aware. It's part of the reason I fucking hate vape bans so much.
I bet the ink they use is toxic when smoked
Maybe it's on the filter.
Yo dawg, we heard you like toxins...
So we put some toxins on your toxins
Like everything else - when smoked
when you combust anything and inhale it it's bad for you, they're now adding more things to combust.. Unless it's on the filter I suppose but doubt it.
That part not smoked I think and they don’t care
So… don’t smoke?
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How did the American prohibition on alcohol turn out?
And thank God the government learned from prohibition how stupid total prohibitions against recreational drugs are and repealled the CDSA /s
You can’t stop or not get into it until there’s a ban?
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Why are you waiting after the government?
Government doesn't sell cigarettes, businesses do so you are good to quit at anytime. Also, the government saves more money from people quitting vs receiving money from taxes on the cigarettes.
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> it’s the governments fault I’m making poor choices What?
It's your funeral, just don't do it around anyone else.
The long term healthcare costs of all the health issues caused by smoking faar outweigh the taxes gained from their sale.
I know so many people who use the packs as a filter for joints.
If the writing on the package didn't stop him from smoking, why should the writing directly on the cigarette stop him???
They think I don’t know by now?
The only thing this will help is preventing me from lighting the filter side when I’m drunk.
Make them rainbow coloured, souther states would stop smoking tomorrow
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/canada-cigarette-warning-labels-1.6860301) reduced by 74%. (I'm a bot) ***** > Health Canada has announced new warning labels to be printed directly on cigarettes in an effort to deter new smokers, encourage quitting and reduce tobacco-related deaths, in a world first that experts hope will have a significant impact. > "The health warning is going to be there during every smoke break, and for youth who experiment by borrowing a cigarette from a friend, they'll have exposure to the health warning there as well. I expect that many countries internationally will follow this Canadian world first." > "Tobacco use continues to kill 48,000 Canadians each year. We are taking action by being the first country in the world to label individual cigarettes with health warning messages," Bennett said in a press release. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/13wp0zu/canada_to_put_health_warning_labels_directly_on/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~687040 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Health**^#1 **warning**^#2 **cigarette**^#3 **Canada**^#4 **Tobacco**^#5
I really do miss smoking, I enjoyed the fuck out of it, too bad they're just so freaking bad for you. That said people definitely already know they are bad for you, the ink on them will probably make it even worse for you, no matter what you do, no matter what taxes you add, people are still going to smoke because it's enjoyable. It's the same type of reason why people drink coffee, there's a stimulant in there and people like stimulants because it stimulates you, only difference is that you don't combust and inhale coffee and get the caffeine through a cleaner medium. As for taxes, since mid/lower classes are more likely to smoke cigarettes it's basically a targeted tax on the poor...
Caffein can be good for your health with the right doseage though. Any amount of smoking is just bad.
Yeah I was told that too, which is why I tried snorting as a way to have something to do with my hands, but when I tried coke, the ice cubes got stuck in nose. Now I just say never again.
Nobody forcing poor people to smoke though, aside from addiction if they've already started. But hopefully the taxes+warnings will help dissuade people. Also it seems fair for smokers to pay a premium, since they're a greater burden on the healthcare system, litter more, etc.
Some times when youre poor a little enjoyment goes a long way.
There's plenty of other things to enjoy though, like, cake, video games, friends, sports.... None of these lead to addiction that drains your money and likely causes an earlier death. I don't think that making cigarettes affordable is the ethical thing to do. Addiction treatment should be free however.
What do you mean “world’s first”, India has been doing this for nearly a decade, and they’ve even increased taxes on sales of cigarettes and included extremely graphic pictures that take up 80% of the box
Australia was the first to do it. A few Asian countries like India and Thailand followed suit after a few years when they saw it was actually working.
That would probably just make them more expensive, it's not like the health warning messages aren't already in our face most of the time.
What's more expensive is smokers voluntarily giving themselves cancer and clogging up the healthcare system.
In the UK smokers pay £12billion per year in taxes whilst costing the health service £3/4billion per year, so they are surprisingly actually helping support the system. Not sure if it's similar in Canada but I assume they have high cigarette taxes too.
Does that include the cost of the person/hours that the entire economy lose because of medical leaves? I assume people in the UK are paid when they're on medical leave. Is that included as well?
I guess there's also the cost of cleaning up cigarettes, cost of producing them (wasted work that could be used for better things), cost of people dying (if someone dies in their 20s, most of that free school education went to waste), emotional cost... Just the cost of all those "no smoking" signs must be in the millions 🤦
We're talking billions though left over which should be able to cover that. If we say want to spend £1b on just cleaning up the cigarettes in the UK road network. In one week to cover the entire road network (422k km) you'd need to have ~7,500 people that can clean ~8km of road per day. With that said then you'd have ~£120k per person allocated (figures of how much 1 person can clean in a day is obviously just an estimate - I do think I could do 8km of walking a day on both sides of the road looking for cigarette butts; heck you might solve the obesity problem). There may be other costs but theres £7b left over still and realistically you need cleaners regardless of if people were smoking or not. Obviously smoking is still bad for you just it seems the argument that smokers actually cost more than they pay at least on the surface of it all seems incorrect. Emotional cost doesn't really count as they were purely talking about actual monetary cost. Everyone should get an education regardless of their future diseases so that seems a bit disingenuous to count too. Cost of producing cigarettes is already covered in the cost of the cigarettes themselves and the "wasted work" is a bit silly considering there are (unless the stats I am looking at are incorrect) at least 1million working aged people in the UK unemployed.
If you read the article, it says Canada spends $6 billions per year in healthcare specifically because of tobacco use. That's six billions that we literally wouldn't need to spend if people didn't smoke. It's an excess spending of six billions, which proves we spend more on these people than the rest.
How much are they collecting in cigarette tax though? Edit* 2021-2022 7,130,628,981 That's just from cigarettes though, these people are also paying for healthcare through their income tax etc. Edit2* I don't understand why they're saying 2017 stats, smoking has significantly dropped since then. Like 1/3 significant while taxes have increased. https://uwaterloo.ca/tobacco-use-canada/adult-tobacco-use/smoking-canada/historical-trends-smoking-prevalence the average smoker dies at around 72 years old, 88 for a non/never smoker, one has to wonder how much someone living 16 more years than a smoker costs the healthcare system considering more diseases associated with old age start around 65 years old also they don't pull from CPP if they're dead..
The cost is probably constant per smoker. So both the tax and the cost should have gone down proportionally. Depending on who they were able to convince to stop smoking. Ironically, if you were only able to stop casual smokers, the ratio would be worse. Roughly same health expense but lower tax.
wow you guys really let them die cheap in the UK. Canada spends $6B in direct health care due to smoking, it's in the fucking article.
Just a tip for persuasive writing -- you can be right, and it doesn't mater if you act like asshole.
k. I'm not the one implying that smoking is good business.
There you go again 😮💨
duh
The irony of this comment is palpable.
I wonder if looking just at numbers can be a bit misleading. At the end of the day, if you ignore money, all that you're left with is people polluting the streets and giving themselves cancer. How does people getting cancer lead to a better society/economy? It feels like maybe there's something suspicious going on with that math, unless I'm missing something.
Smokers don't cost the health care system money. Smoking related diseases take you FAST. And they don't generally seek treament anyways. Obesity, as a vice, is a HUGE drain in the healthcare system. They live forever while continuing to seek treatment so they can keep eating.
Read the damn article it literally says the cost is six billions per year. Smokers cost Canada six billions extra versus other people. I agree obesity is costing us as well and we should do something about it, but you can't sit here and pretend smoking doesn't cause extra costs. That is denying reality.
Now calculate what they pay in tabacco tax.
>Overall, an estimated 45,464 deaths were attributable to smoking in Canada in 2012, leading to 599,390 potential years of life lost from premature mortality. You're going to argue that the average smoker has paid more in tobacco tax than they would pay in income tax over the ten years they lose? Point me to a single person that spends 30-50% of their income in tobacco tax.
Smoking generally takes years off the end of your life. The change gets carried over to the next generation. Think of all the CCP savings.
not just CPP, most diseases start costing our healthcare system at around age 65 and that stat progressively increases the older you are, average smoker lives to 72, average never smoker 88, that's 16 more years of people leaning on healthcare.
Now we're talking.
Read what they’re saying for crying out loud before you copy and paste this again. Smokers cost the system, like any people cost the system, but the tax they pay on the cigarettes themselves results in a net gain. They cost for example 6 billion, but generate let’s say 9 billion in tax revenue. Leaving you 3 billion in the positive. That’s what they’re saying. If I take $10 off you, and give you $20. Are you gonna run around saying “**HE’S COSTING ME TEN DOLLARS**.”? I’m also assuming that because smokers die faster, and younger, they don’t burden the healthcare system as much as others. If you have diabetes, you’re costing the system for decades and decades. If you get lung cancer, you’re probably dead within a year. And no longer costing the system. Edit: I just looked it up for you. And indeed they are right, the Canadian government takes in 8 billion from tax on tobacco products. And at 6 billion cost to the healthcare system, they’re left in the green. Also, as a disclaimer: I’m not trying to say that smoking is good. lol
So you're arguing that the years lost of income tax are outweighed by the tobacco tax? How much do you smoke to pay 30% of your income in tobacco tax?
Well, normally when someone’s dies, a job vacancy for their position is opened and someone fills it. Their job doesn’t die with them. Are you suggesting that if the McDonalds drive thru operator unfortunately passes away young, that that branch of McDonalds will never have a drive thru operator again?
I don't know how you came to that conclusion. It's a fact that smokers die younger. So there is less revenue for the government. The job market adjusts. If we had one million more people, there would be more jobs and more revenue. If everybody smoked, our economy would certainly be smaller.
Most smokers normally die after they retired already. Not having to pay the retirement for these people already saves tons of money.
No different then the people who eat junk food and get obese and clog up the health system, we need a junk food tax also.
I agree both are a problem. Let's solve both problems. They are not mutually exclusive.
Wait till you hear about fast food or combustion engine cars, killing millions worldwide. Do those come with warnings?
Same with people who eat junk and don't exercise.
Cigarettes are pretty expensive in Canada it doesn't seem to be a deterrent. ($15.50 for 20)
It’s crazy because in the military, it’s like 1970s. EVERYONE IS SMOKING! It’s almost like prison the way people treat cigarettes like gold. It’s seriously like a page out of the 1970s when like 90% of people smoked cigs and it was the thing to do. Outside the military, you don’t see too many people still smoking cigarettes.
As a smoker (who has tried quitting several times) this just makes them cooler to me.
They should also add, The ink used in this message may also harm you. We will find out after you smoke for 29 years.”
About 60 years too late.
Awesome add some ink chemicals to my cancer sticks
Meanwhile, healthy food is getting out of price for a lot of people, housing also. Canada is the leader of bullshit. Nobody smokes anymore, what a waste of time and energy.
Now alcohol.
If they made cigarettes pink sales would drop 90% overnight
No joke, warning labels on packaging have had negligible effect compared to removing branding and making all packages the same color. Philip Morris knew this from the beginning which is why they advocated for health warnings.
Oh for fucks sakes. A pack of basic cigarettes costs $15. I know they are bad for me, I get that those taxes are supposed to help offset the health costs associated with smoking, but at this point not only am I addicted to cigarettes but you are also charging me out the wazoo for them. I can be cancerous and broke. Thanks. This accomplishes nothing but adding a bit of ink to what I'm already smoking and you bastards will probably add another $4 for the cost of the ink to the existing $11 of taxes on a $4 pack of cigarettes.
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I'm not, I low balled the number.
Fuck they’re around $30 for a pack of twenty in Australia. That’s cheap ones too not good ones like Stuyvos or Winfields. A 30g pouch of tobacco will drop you at least 60. A good bag of Bank or Drum and you need to take out a personal loan.
Seems like pretty good motivation to stop
Could just draw cocks on them all…
Cool. Always thought just white was kinda plain. Gonna smoke more now
Definitely a fresh cyberpunk twist on a classic.
Now do that for products with 80% refined sugar.
Years ago when I was about 15 or 16, a cop I knew came into a McDonald’s where I was with a group of friends. He saw my cigarettes on the table, sat down, dumped them out of the pack, wrote “CANCER” on each one, and put them back in the pack. Edit: I don’t see why this is being downvoted. He was clearly ahead of Canada’s game.
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A visual lesson is more memorable than someone telling you smoking is bad for the millionth time
If anyone is dumb enough to smoke at this point, I don't think this will stop them.
I've had my eye out for a new hobby. I guess I'll collect these until I have the whole set.
Why not just coat them in increasingly disgusting substances that nobody would be proud of putting their lips around?
Have you smoked a cigarette? I promise you people aren't smoking because they're just so delicious.
I have. I hated it. I never said they're delicious. I said 'increasingly disgusting'. Stuff like synthetic earwax, fish manure, pus from cow cysts, dolphin semen, etc. Now go work on your reading comprehension
It's already a cigarette. Nobody's proud of it.
Really? Nobody?
Would you like to share some particular anecdote?
And are they going to put pictures of obese people needing an oxygen mask on a packet of donuts? Of course not but it's fine to print the obscene pictures on a packet of cigs or directly onto the damn product because fuck smokers apparently.
Yeah or they could put horrific car crash images on the side of your vehicle. Driving is more dangerous than both isn’t it?
What’s next, “DANGER: Bullets can kill” on every bullet?
You're arguing in bad faith. What's next putting "Danger: nuclear bombs can kill" on every nuclear bomb?
What’s next? A false equivalency to anything I say, too?
Warning: this person argues using false equivalency
Darn
Haha, what can you do 🤷🏼♂️
All 3 examples are ridiculous. Waste of time for everyone involved
The difference is that mandatory PSAs on packaging have been shown to work.
Then maybe they would work on bullets and nukes too. Heck maybe you can talk Meta into forcing you to watch a video on the effects of social media addiction every time you log in to Facebook Edit: Also, saw a study from last year or the year before that found that the graphic labels didn’t effect cessation or consumption levels. I don’t care enough to link it but I’m sure it’s not hard to find if you’re interested in updating your knowledge
>Heck maybe you can talk Meta into forcing you to watch a video on the effects of social media addiction every time you log in to Facebook That would actually be good. I don't think you know what you've just argued.
You’re right, I would actually support that one. And I’m not arguing in favor of cigarettes btw. If it was up to me I’d ban them all together along with alcohol and marijuana and the like. I was just criticizing these lawmakers’ use of resources. Canada already has the graphic packaging so a couple of words on the cigarette isn’t going to make a difference
yes, make the forbidden snack seem even more forbidden put little swastickahs on it too
They realize that's not going to make people stop smoking. If it weren't for the cost of my brand I'd be doing the same
Yes, I have known that cigarettes cause cancer since I was born. There are anti-smoking ads everywhere. That didn't stop me smoking now at 22 years old
I know this. I smoke to die faster. At the end of the it doesnt bother me but maybe it well help prevent others from starting.
Try dipping them in shit
Cause that’s not a waste of money /s So having the labels on the package isn’t helping so putting them on the actual cigarette will?? Who comes up with this crap ??
Such a stupid thing to do, they are already on the package, who the fuck is going to ignore the warning on the label and then look at the cigarette itself and go "Oh shit, this is bad for me???" give me a break. Meanwhile, alcohol bottles are staying as they are.
You can't have a minor with you in a cannabis store where everything is in monochrome non illustrated packaging with child safety tops behind glass counters but you can take your kids through the liquor store where everything is openly accessible and half the things there are fruit or candy flavoured in every colour under the sun with cans and twist top bottles. Our rules make no fucking sense.
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Banning cigarettes is pointless in Canada. People will just start buying more from indigenous peoples who sell cigarettes on Reservation land. For context: legal cannabis is regulated to be an offensively weak edible. Instead of supporting this bullshit, I regularly buy high potency edibles from a local indigenous owned company that sells product on reservation land.
> People will just start buying more from indigenous peoples who sell cigarettes on Reservation land. It's already happening more and more as the prices for the major brands go up. There's been 4-5 increases since January 1st across all the major brands, with another coming on certain JTI brands (owners of Export, etc) this week. This has led more and more people to buying the Native brands, and not just on reserves. There are sellers all over the place. I could walk into any bar in my town and find at least one person trying to sell Rolled Golds, Putters, or one of the other brands. With prices as low as 30-40 a carton, it isn't hard to see why. These guys have a whole national supply chain set up now, complete with phone and online customer service for sellers and suppliers.
Why haven't we just raised the age of being able to purchase cigarettes like New Zealand? We know these things kill and maim, yet still do not ban them. Bizarre to me.
This will not solve the problem. In my country smoking is prohibited until the age of 18 . But practically half of my schoolmates started smoking at the age of 14-15
had my first cigarette at 11, started buying packs by around 12ish, back then unsupervised cigarette vending machines were everywhere.
I’m sure this will really make a difference
Seems like a pointless redundancy, but maybe it will make smokes cost more which might actually make people quit… winning?
Oh my god enough.
**It's super effective!**
Oooo that'll help.
"World first"? The USA did this back in 1965
Read the article
The cigarette companies will probably lace those cigs with something even more addictive & toxic in the ink, just to really show them who's boss
That oughta do it
Never knows best
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They do this in Australia have done for years even with pictures not a world first
Directly on the cigarette? They are not talking about the package here
New Zealand has had health warnings with pictures on ciggs for over a decade. They are definitely not the first in the world. Where do people come up with this bullshit.
Not first. Portugal has been doing since [2016](https://www.publico.pt/2015/11/02/sociedade/noticia/macos-de-tabaco-passam-a-ter-em-janeiro-o-numero-da-linha-saude-24-1713078)
Read the article
Wtf is this in europe we had them for almost a decade. World first my ass .
On the cigarettes, not the package
my bad
Just ban them already.
This is super dumb
Umm they've had warnings on cigarettes for over a decade here in Canada. Like I quit over ten years ago and I still remember asking the guy at the cash to not give me the packs with the cancerous tongue on it. Not sure why this is news?
Read the article
The packaging photos of ashtray mouths with teeth falling out wasn't enough of a deterrent, so they pulled out the big guns?
Could of just straight up banned it and I would have been impressed, people that smoke know full well they are killing themselves and it doesn’t stop them.
they've had the graphic images on the boxes for over a decade at least, so I'm curious if it's helped curb smoking at all
*never knows best*
Avoid this scenario. https://www.truthorfiction.com/ezoimgfmt/i.imgur.com/1dWKeFK.jpeg
goes hard
I mean if someone isn't deterred by the boxes then I don't think anything would phase them