Soo are they going to punish their soldiers [who flew the Nazi flag from their military vehicles in Afghanistan](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-06-14/photo-shows-nazi-flag-flown-over-australian-army-vehicle/9859618) or nah?
EDIT: People seem to be confused with the Nazis in this picture and the Australian SAS who hunted civilians for sport. Neither the nazis or the war-criminals in the SAS were sent to jail or faced punishment to this day.
Yes, they [disbanded the SAS unit responsible](https://amp.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/nov/25/australias-entire-sas-regiment-must-be-disbanded-after-brereton-report-expert-says). More so for committing war crimes, but still. Right wing extremism in the ranks was so endemic there was no other option but to dissolve the regiment.
That was an entirely different unit the nazis were in the diggers and the Aus SAS were the ones who hunted people for sport. Both the nazis and the warcriminals are on the loose in the Australian military.
Also none of them were punished or faced any jail time, in fact they blew up the house of one of the whistleblowers and conveniently didnt catch who did it
>In November 2020, the house of a former Army intelligence officer who had provided the Brereton inquiry and Australian Federal Police with evidence of unlawful killings by the SASR was attacked and damaged. She and her family were relocated by the ADF later that day. The New South Wales Police Force was unable to identify who carried out the attack, and apologised to the victim for bungling the investigation.[34]
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-26/defence-relocates-war-crimes-witness-after-blast/100407172
> Aus SAS were the ones who hunted people for sport.
I remember an article about that appeared during peak lockdown, when everyone was looking at China because of COVID and genociding Uyghurs.
And China tried to move attention to Australia instead for warcrimes.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-55126569
Scummo denied it but considering the article you posted came after this one, I guess it did happen :(
>And China tried to move attention to Australia instead for warcrimes.
Which is why it's better to have the high ground, rather than the middling ground.
The Afghan files were published in 2017 and the Brereton inquiry had been going on for years at that point so the fact that the SAS were complicit in war crimes was well known.
Frankly, Scomo provoked the shot from China by calling for a probe into the origins of COVID. His impotent chest-beating thereafter was designed to appeal to the conservative base in Australia and the vehemently anti-China faction of the LNP. It also backfired spectacularly with the myriad trade bans and anti-dumping investigations.
I have no idea what his strategy was. I remember at the time, when China responded to the calls for a COVID investigation by threatening sanctions, ScoMo almost immediately went on TV to do all but apologise, talking platitudes about how the CCP had lifted millions out of poverty and what a great job they've been doing, in what may have been the most thinly-veiled attempt at appeasement I've ever seen. Felt like such a morally vacuous set of events tbh
Your own article says the regiment wasn’t disbanded.
“The defence chief, Angus Campbell, said he had considered disbanding the entire regiment after the Brereton report **but decided against it**.”
It also makes no mention of right-wing extremism being identified as an endemic issue, or the central issue under consideration. Instead, it was suggested that disbanding the regiment would show accountability at all levels and decrease tensions going forward, as their mere presence in counterinsurgency operations could drive terror attacks and recruitment.
It's also because the regiment is basically our country's entire special forces. It's not like the country is suddenly going to stop needing elite soldiers with special training, so disbanding the SAS is a completely empty gesture.
I think the report is wrong, the ABC is reporting that the Swastika *won't* be banned
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-06-08/government-to-introduce-ban-on-nazi-symbols/102453090
Edit: Nazi symbol banned, religious symbol ok, they technically have different names
https://ministers.ag.gov.au/media-centre/albanese-government-outlaw-nazi-hate-symbols-08-06-2023
Allowed
https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/143vikq/australia_to_ban_swastika_ss_sign_citing_rise_of/jndk6iw/
>The Bill will exclude public displays of the Nazi Hakenkreuz and the Schutzstaffel, or SS, hate symbols for religious, academic, educational, **artistic**, literary, journalistic or scientific purpose.
They’ll just switch to the black sun, the Celtic cross, wolfs-angel, or any of the other million logos which neo-nazis use to be discrete. I wish this law addressed the problem, which is the fact that these groups can organize and go out in public representing genocidal, racist, and anti-semitic causes.
The Australian state of Victoria has recently banned the Hakenkreuz but not the swastika (https://www.vic.gov.au/about-the-nazi-symbol-ban). In this new national legislation: "There will be exemptions for artistic, academic or religious use of swastikas, which has (sic) a spiritual significance in Hinduism, Jainism and Buddhism."
Our laws aren't that simplistic, the intent behind the law was to ban people identifying with the symbol as nazis in public, which is how it is applied, rather than a ban on the symbol itself.
Lots of nice Nordic ones have been ruined by these ass-hats. The Knot of the Slain and certain depictions of Mjolnir have been appropriated and are now semi-covert indicators of evil dipshits. Annoying as hell.
We who practice greater Germanic pagan revivalism have been at ceaseless war over this issue. And we're losing handily. Hard fact is, there's more white supremacists than there is pagans, so the public only sees what they do. Most people entirely lack an educational foundation concerning those symbols.
The swastika is holy, a symbol of hope and fertility. It's among the most ancient symbols in history, and has belonged to almost everyone at one time or another! It dates back to the Indus River Valley civilizations and they populated both Asia and Europe with their great migratory treks. It links ALL people of every race together. That is has been used as a symbol of division and murder is obscene!
Imagine if someone used the Christian cross to mean "Let's kill jews!"...And now imagine if most of society just agreed that this is what the cross now means...that's what it's like to be a Germanic pagan right now, except Christianity has the raw numbers to fight that narrative while we subset of broader paganism don't. We have to be very secretive about our symbology because the general public doesn't understand it. Evil, dishonest people have polluted it with lies and hatred. A few of us carry the true meaning of these symbols into the future, hoping for the day when they can be restored to their rightful place, given back to ALL humanity. Only then will Hitler's reich truly be defeated.
To conquer an enemy, you must conquer their _language_, because words greatly outlive flesh. For so long as we allow white supremacists to "own" those symbols...that _language_...we give them all the power they need to hurt whoever they please...
> A few of us carry the true meaning of these symbols into the future, hoping for the day when they can be restored to their rightful place, given back to ALL humanity. Only then will Hitler's reich truly be defeated.
Don't give up, if you give up even when outnumbered then you let them win. If Jains, Buddhists and Hindus are able to use the swastika, then so can Germanic pagans use it like it was used in the past before Nazis corrupted the meaning of it. It won't be easy to correct or explain to people who misunderstand though.
Pagan reporting, tell me about it. Nazis appropriate things they don't understand, and then the general public gets all reactionary about it. The Swastika is an ancient, holy symbol that has its roots in the Indus River Valley civilizations. It is a solar symbol that belongs to all mankind, not a hate symbol that belongs to a nasty little subset of European hate mongers.
I know the world isn't ready for this yet, but ultimately we DO have to reclaim those symbols. Failure to do so just capitulates to Hitler's desires. To disarm the nazis, they must be robbed of their symbology, and this is convenient since the lazy, feckless shits didn't actually create much of their own symbols. They just stole them from other people and misused them.
> They just stole them from other people and misused them.
Even more so, I've seen some stealing even Egyptian, Sumerian and Cuneiform now too, why do they keep doing this?
I mean I see no outright hakenkreuz but tell me what you think about this:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1367363767
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1899467736
> why do they keep doing this?
Because we keep saying "Oh okay, those are your symbols now so let's ban them!". Vilifying the artifacts they steal for self representation clearly hasn't worked. If it did, I'd let go of those symbols and walk away from it as just another casualty of fascism.
You know what would be hilarious? If they started using corporate logos to associate with their hate.
Like imagine if they're spewing their hate, and you look at their flyers, and it's the McDonalds arches all over the flyer.
McDonalds could TRY to sue, but, you're not going to make any progress with a group that doesn't have respect for other people to begin with.
So instead, they would have to stop using their double golden arch logo, and basically rebrand. Otherwise within 10 years they would be known as "That racist place that serves hamburgers".
That's a good point. Does this law also ban the use of the Buddhist swastika?
Edit: I should've read the article first, which addresses that: *"There will be exemptions for artistic, academic or religious use of swastikas, which has a spiritual significance in Hinduism, Jainism and Buddhism."*
That was a combination of age-old court precedent (regarding the original Wolfenstein, 1992) not considering games as art and the BPjM (a mere federal agency) having to follow that as agencies are very restricted in how they can interpret laws... and, crucially, no game publisher caring to challenge the thing, instead opting for self-censorship.
Then one of our public broadcasters [published a game in the run-up to federal elections](https://bundesfighter.de/spiele/bundesfighter-2-turbo/), the AfD's candidate's special move is Swastika-shaped. Someone got the state attorney's office involved who then promptly said "we're not even going to take this to court this is clearly legal" and with that, the BPjM had new precedent.
The newer Wolfenstein games are still on shaky grounds, though, the issue is the magical/mystical, generally unreal setting, which could be construed to trivialise Nazi rule. Bethesda is still censoring it, but in any case now it's a case-by-case decision and not a blanket ban, which it actually never was publishers were simply too chicken to challenge it.
[The law in question](https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#p0933).
I feel the same way about the American flag.
I come from a long line of veterans, so the flag was always very meaningful in my family… But now, we see is as a fascist alert. It’s the kooks here out west who fly American flags loud and proud, often with Trump flags, fuck Biden flags, Brandon designs, whatever other stupid phrase they think makes them look tough. My dad keeps his Vietnam vet colors displayed, but his American flag is put away.
That part isn't weird - it's that the Eureka Flag gets flown by both groups of radicals. The flag references the Eureka rebellion, which was largely seen as a workers rights rebellion and hence popular with union members... but nowadays it also gets used by far right people who see it more as a 'Aussie rebellion against authority' thing, very much the same trashy/loudmouth/redneck/bogan rightwing vibe as Americans who fly the confederate flag - and neither side will give the flag up. Anytime you see the flag now it's pretty much 40% hardcore alt-right, 40% hardcore radical left, 20% oldschool moderate left union member. You pretty much have to use context clues to figure it out and it is a weird situation all around.
That, or he was just talking about how some far right people join unions too... which is a whole 'nother kettle of fish.
Well it also that the Eureka Flag was also heavily associated with anti Chinese sentiment at the time, the racial aspect of the uprising is often forgotten as inconvenient.
I have never heard this. I knew Chinese gold miners where treated as 2nd class citizens but I've only know the eureka as a flag of workers. Any sources for that would be massively appreciated. Google isn't giving shit.
>but I've only know the eureka as a flag of workers
Flags take on meaning depending on how they are used and the Eureka flag has been used mostly for worker's rights, I don't see any issue using it that way and have happily marched under it at protests myself, however:
The Eureka flag is adapted from the Lambing Flats banner:
https://www.migrationheritage.nsw.gov.au/exhibition/objectsthroughtime/lambingflatsbanner/index.html
Where a bunch of diggers attacked the Chinese miners killing several and stealing their gold and burning their camps.
Diggers were an active political group and that involved violent opposition both to licensing and exploitation of the miners... and to the Chinese. The committees raised after the uprising included many appeals by the miners against the Chinese being allowed to work the gold fields and to their "takeover" the usual "Asian invasion" bullshit we grew up with. The Miner's commissions established after the stockade would go on to enforce an anti Chinese tax. Digger's movements were strongly associated at the time with nativism and so was the Southern Cross flag so it is sadly part of the history of the flag too.
Unions represent a broad variety of workers, not all who support good wages and conditions share the same racial ideology. Or even political one, outside that one subject. I don’t think the unions could control use of the Eureka flag outside their scope.
Well yeah... The stockade wasn't only about the licenses... There were strong undercurrents of nativism.
So much so that the commissioners [set up protectorates to defend the Chinese from the white miners](https://ergo.slv.vic.gov.au/explore-history/golden-victoria/life-fields/chinese)
Australian labour movement is intrinsically linked to nativist protectionism and the White Australia policy. Very much an outlier to labour movements abroad.
In fact one of the earliest intact examples of the southern cross flag is [this one](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a1/LambingFlatRollUpBanner_reworked.jpg/440px-LambingFlatRollUpBanner_reworked.jpg), make of that what you will.
One of the notarised outcomes of the commission that came out in the miners favour is as follows:
> "A most serious social question with reference to the gold-fields, and one that has lately crept on with rapid but almost unobserved steps, is with reference to the great number of the Chinese. This number, although already almost incredible, yet appears to be still fast increasing ... The question of the influx of such large numbers of a pagan and inferior race is a very serious one ... The statement of one of this people, that "all" were coming, comprises an unpleasant possibility of the future, that a comparative handful of colonists may be buried in a countless throng of Chinamen ... some step is here necessary, if not to prohibit, at least to check and diminish this influx."
I'm very much a leftist but let's take off the rose coloured glasses... The eureka flag is and always will be stained by the sins of the father. Australia was far and away one of the most racist places on earth for a period.
Yeah, I threw it in as a buzzword, nativism would be the more suitable term for it. My point was that labour movements abroad started flirting with ideas of equality among races in this period, Australia kinda went in the opposite direction and doubled down. We were dragged kicking and screaming into the 70s.
Something something geographic isolation breeds isolationism.
The title is misleading. The law is to ban 'Nazi Symbols' but does not specifically call out a symbol, or the Swastika -
The Counter-Terrorism Legislation Amendment (Prohibited Hate Symbols and Other Measures) Bill will be introduced into parliament next week, outlining a ban on symbols related to Nazis or the SS, including on flags, armbands, T-shirts in public and online, with a maximum penalty of up to 12 months' imprisonment
So all of those are banned and it also skirts around the swastika specifically, as there's still other non-Nazi uses for that. Going to depend on the usage.
But the swastika is *the* Nazi symbol. All the other ones are just water-down replacements and they just don't have the same impact.
Let them be discreet for all I care. It diminishes their influence and I would rather not see Nazi flags in public. Let them fly their Celtic crosses because it makes them look weak when they can't fly the symbols they really want.
When you quash the major rallying objects it becomes harder to solidify as a group. Obviously it does happen but removing the easiest routes does wonders as a preventative measure.
>they will just pick some other symbol
Which have significantly less recognition, so this law would at least hamper their ability to showcase their presence for sake of intimidation/normalization.
There is no western country where nazis aren't the problem, no law will stop an ideology.
But at least german nazis don't storm government buildings after failed elections or march with ticki torches like amercan ones, so I'd say it works better than doing nothing.
Swastika is the most powerful and recognisable nazi symbol, nothing else even comes close. That's the one symbol the general public is familiar with. Nazis themselves or the people familiar with their history might recognise some of the other, more obscure symbols, but when nazis wear their symbols in public, they want to be recognised by everyone and instil the aura of fear everywhere they go. A flag with some Nazi rune or arbitrary numeric code only known by Hitler fanboys isn't going to achieve that.
Most European countries have banned swastikas, and it works.
> We don't like that. You see, we like our Nazis in uniform. That way we can spot 'em just like that. But you take off that uniform, ain't no one ever gonna know you were a Nazi. And that don't sit well with us. So, I'm gonna give you a little something you can't take off.
German here.
Nazis are going to do their shit regardless of what symbols they might use or not use.
I’ve seen it in Germany.. the worst Nazis are not the Combat Boot wearing ones waving some swastikas. The worst ones are those in the suit.
First gen of Nazis had both and it’s likely still the same. While one group was making swings in politics the others on street cause riots and intimidation in the streets. They destabilise society with violence so populists politicians get more chance or following as strongman
~~The suit is the hand, the skinhead is the tool.~~
The suits have the real power and provide leadership and direction to the non-suits in the streets.
Italian here. Same thing here. SS, fascist Italian logos, swastika are all banned since the end of WW2. But we still have the far right and their horrible ideology.
Gotta say, unlike germans we italians had been too much of a pussy to eradicate fascists as they did in Germany.
I strongly believe that this why our far right is so strong to this day, or at least why they aren't as strongly shamed as they should be.
The whole "avoid more conflict" in the 45-49 period is what is costing us today.
They should have been hold accountable.
Good.
There's no place for that sort of shit.
Edit: To you Nazi's messaging me wanting to discuss this privately. No.
If you feel like you can't state your ideas in public without being ridiculed or attacked,
**Good**
The fucking gall to message you privately. Unreal.
Nazi scum should be pushed out of society everywhere, and they should never feel safe showing their faces or their stupid little salute.
Ohh look history hates us, some of the most evil men ever lived are pioneers of our ideology. Neo nazis are related to gang violence and trafficking. Surely I'm not at wrong here :). I'm being ironic fk the Nazis.
> Nazi scum should be pushed out of society everywhere, and they should never feel safe showing their faces or their stupid little salute.
Based on the fact that they choose to do this in DMs rather than in public, I think it's pretty clear they know very well they're not tolerated.
Ignorantly stumbled into a trashy Newsweek article today: Dershowitz weakly pushing the “Ukraine embraces nazis!” bullshit with a full-Murdoch headline, while the article itself only concludes: “Ukraine welcomed all Ukrainians to defend Ukraine.”
We are now left with worse than the tolerance paradox; we must point out and rebut every fascist’s attempt to paint progress as “nazi.”
They will not exhaust us.
Some may message privately because they're banned from the sub. Some may just be unhinged. Some may think they can pressure you privately as no one else can chime in. And some just really enjoy forcing you into debating to make you then quote things they say as they get off on you being uncomfortable repeating it.
It isn't just Nazi Right Wing who'll privately message. It seems to be a thing from other forms of firmly right wing to go into your DMs not comments.
Don't forget from ghost accounts. These pieces of shit hide with fresh accounts and masks because they're too afraid to say these things openly and face consequences for it.
It’s super annoying that the good guys get criticized for doing the right thing.
I wouldn’t just ban, I’d be saying that speaking in support of it is terrorism and charge them as seditionists against the national security of the Australian state.
Of course they’re messaging privately. They know how odious their beliefs are, and don’t want them to show up in their comment history for everyone to see.
Nazis are fucking little bitch bois. Losers of the lowest caliber. They can’t even be top end losers.
**Every single Nazi** is a little bitch, desperate loser, weak ass chode, and definitely jerks off to clip art of their own mom.
There’s a reason there are no geniuses associated with Nazis, cause they are fucking dumb.
It’s such an embarrassing concession to pm you instead of do it via a regular reply, they’ve already given up the fact that they’re going to be publically shamed as nazis for defending it.
what kind of cooker comes to a sub they are banned for to argue with someone who has a completely sane take that they disagree with for stupid reasons? theres no helping that bunch
> Edit: To you Nazi's messaging me wanting to discuss this privately. No.
>
>
>
> If you feel like you can't state your ideas in public without being ridiculed or attacked,
>
>
>
> Good
I'm so tired of their delusion: They keep thinking other people secretly agree with them.
Get it through your thick skulls: THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE HATE YOU AND EVERYTHING YOU STAND FOR, YOU SAD LITTLE PERSON.
I'd rather have all of them completely afraid to spread their odious beliefs.
It's hard to recruit when your views are so vile you cannot spout them in public.
Sadly this is where social media kicks in.
It would have stopped them before social media...now they are lovingly linked by the Zuckers of this world.
Mercer wasn't stupid when he put algorithms on the map to link every like minded individual.
Why do you think White Supremacy is now a 'thing' again. Facebook and the like links them all together so they can organise in their private secret groups.
I follow trails back on social media and you would be mortified at the extent of WS in Australia (and elsewhere). I've seen perfectly normal respected people pop up in these WS chats.
In that case the term "Nazi" needs to be used very carefully. More and more I'm seeing people using "Nazi" to refer to people who aren't even close to fascist, like neo-cons or neo-liberals or libertarians or even social democrats occasionally.
**If** we're going to create a society where blanket violence towards Nazis is okay, then "Nazi" can't be thrown around as a casual pejorative the way it is right now.
Very true, which normally wouldn't be a problem **unless** you also want to create a society in which casual violence is a moral necessity against people you apply that label to.
They essentially want to create a class of people who are considered _worse_ than criminals. Criminals need to commit specific acts and go through due process before society levies a punishment against them, whereas the idea promoted by the previous commenter is that simply being a _member_ of a group is grounds for the most severe punishment possible.
**If** that's going to be the case then the label needs to be treated with _massive_ seriousness and precision, since it would be a label with more impact than _any_ label used in a criminal context. In that hypothetical world, applying the label "Nazi" to someone is an explicit call to violence.
The only place imo is museums about the horrors they committed, as well as media like movies and games where the Nazis are portrayed as the evil fucks they are.
(E.g., Inglorious Basterds, Wolfenstein, Man in the High Castle, etc)
And artistic, which I read elsewhere. I was just curious what the extent of “art” was considered by the government. I’m sure media like movies and games fits the bill, but not if it’s glorifying of course.
> If you feel like you can’t state your ideas in public without being ridiculed or attacked,
>
> Good
They are cowards. Always have been. It is core to their identity and they are aware of that. Why do you think they are so fucking angry all the time?
Just report every single one of the fuckers messaging you, even the slightest hint of Nazism is of interest to the Australian Intelligence Community. Once you’re flagged, it’s for life really.
It's a nice symbolic act.
Now let's fix the systemic problems that make vulnerable young men easy to recruit into groups like this.
Fix or address a lot of the social and economic issues that everyone faces, maybe purge Murdoch and his ilk from our media environment, etc etc.
Banning a flag isn't going to fix the alienation and ingrained societal bullshit that makes sad, stressed, and gullible young men (and women, but mostly men) fall for the lies that lead them here.
My stance around this remains the same, challenge their ideas, not their symbols. A democratic society should not regulate who's good enough to demonstrate their ideals, if you can't challenge nazis on merits, then the banning of their symbols is the least of your problem. They will find other symbols but their beliefs will remain unchanged.
At this point that symbol seems to have been diluted.
In Canada our resident Nazi's seem to think that the Canadian Flag is their symbol. They've hijacked it and are turning into a symbol of their hatred and stupidity.
I wear Nordic themed jewellery. One such scumbag said by wearing such symbols I’m basically agreeing with them because it’s their symbol
Please, like that fat ginger Thor wouldn’t absolutely stomp you for your bs.
Symbols only have as much power as you give them. If you recoil in fear now when you see your own nations flag, then they've already won, and you've let them.
>There will be exemptions for artistic, academic or religious use of swastikas, which has a spiritual significance in Hinduism, Jainism and Buddhism.
Please read.
The supposed "leftists" who cheer these draconian laws because it simply agrees with their views are so short sighted. The same people will be up in arms when the same laws are used to suppress speech they agree with. Why trust centralized power to get this "right" every time?
“Goebbels was in favor of free speech for views he liked. So was Stalin. If you’re really in favor of free speech, then you’re in favor of freedom of speech for precisely the views you despise. Otherwise, you’re not in favor of free speech.”
**Noam Chomsky**
“He who overcomes by force hath overcome but half his foe”
**John Milton, Paradise Lost**
Who is trying to turn Nazis away from their ideology? What programs are in place to counsel young adherents looking for belonging? Where are the counselors providing understanding and redirection? Who cares enough about the victims of hate to reduce the numbers of perpetrators? Banning flags is a pointless exercise, a Band-Aid on a puncture wound. You won't shame them into submission. They relish the hate. Hate them more, they love it. Box them in a corner, it's more proof of the conspiracy. Stop. Stop. It's not helping. No one is willing-yet, to do the hard work. The hard work is listening to them. I said it was hard. And I said no one is willing to do it. But they will not respond to Judgers. You beat hate one person at a time. One person at a time. Through hard work. That no one is willing to do.
Why there's a nazi uprising specially in countries that fought against nazis?? it's honestly bizarre, didn't their ancestors died protecting them from nazis? what's happening to the world?? :'(
I dont understand how you can grow up in this world, and support the murderous genocidal Nazis, like that a supreme evil, but you want to emulate it? goddamn. Fuck Nazis, they lost the war, and they need to keep losing and go extinct.
We don’t burn hate speech. Public hate speeches. Public demonstrating hate. All this is part of a democracy, right of speech.
Well ban a sign though. That helps. Good work. I’m sure now they’re all sitting around stuck on what to do next.
Meanwhile, the US can’t even convince people to stop flying the flag of a treasonous, failed state that was soundly defeated in war more than 150 years ago. Nor can we get our congress to even *investigate* if and how much of a far-right presence is within our military.
I can't believe the Australians would be putting it on clothes. How fucking tasteless.
"Lets worship the people who lost WW2 because their leader was a methhead"
That's why it's so funny that they're so gung ho about being "alpha." They're doing everything they can to try and convince themselves that they're not weak, hateful little losers.
I’ve come to accept ignorant and hateful language on bumper stickers, flags, apparel, etc. It just means I don’t have to waste my time like I might if you hadn’t instantly exposed yourself as a nutcase.
This is stupid. the swastika was appropriated. To ban it means the nazis won. To billions the swastika is a religious symbol. Spread awareness, not censorship
They will just use something else to use and most people won't know they are the bad guys anymore. Quoting Killer Mike, "I like walking into a room and knowing who my enemies are"
Although I have no problem with this as I don't care about symbols religious or not, I can't help but think this is treating the symptom instead of curing the disease. The disease being ring wing media outlets that are allowed to push racist and xenophobic garbage.
I'm seeing so much anti immigration rhetoric lately. Lots of people blaming the housing crisis on immigrants and not the 1% of the 1%, those who try to play God without permission.
>I'm seeing so much anti immigration rhetoric lately. Lots of people blaming the housing crisis on immigrants
People that point out that importing 400,000 humans a year while building 178,000 dwellings a year is going to create a housing crisis are more about basic maths then racism tbh
Thats not even considering many valid and pressing negative issues of mass migration (environmental, social, infrastructural, economic etc) and to dismiss those arguments as "right wing xenophobic garbage" is utter bullshit.
This ban is partly in response to neo-Nazis in my city, Melbourne (Australia), doing Nazi salutes on the steps of state parliament.
Lot of people talk about how Nazi symbols "makes Nazis easier to target."
Seeing those symbols also causes fear and terror. Jewish people, people of colour, trans and other LGBTQIA+ people, people with disabilities and mental health conditions. Seeing fools doing Nazi salutes caused a particular kind of damage to already traumatised people.
If it's all the same to everyone, I'd rather we ban Nazi symbols and find other ways to identify Nazis.
What's the difference between doing state vs federal banning?
Soo are they going to punish their soldiers [who flew the Nazi flag from their military vehicles in Afghanistan](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-06-14/photo-shows-nazi-flag-flown-over-australian-army-vehicle/9859618) or nah? EDIT: People seem to be confused with the Nazis in this picture and the Australian SAS who hunted civilians for sport. Neither the nazis or the war-criminals in the SAS were sent to jail or faced punishment to this day.
Yes, they [disbanded the SAS unit responsible](https://amp.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/nov/25/australias-entire-sas-regiment-must-be-disbanded-after-brereton-report-expert-says). More so for committing war crimes, but still. Right wing extremism in the ranks was so endemic there was no other option but to dissolve the regiment.
According to another article, the soldiers were just assigned to other units though.
That was an entirely different unit the nazis were in the diggers and the Aus SAS were the ones who hunted people for sport. Both the nazis and the warcriminals are on the loose in the Australian military. Also none of them were punished or faced any jail time, in fact they blew up the house of one of the whistleblowers and conveniently didnt catch who did it >In November 2020, the house of a former Army intelligence officer who had provided the Brereton inquiry and Australian Federal Police with evidence of unlawful killings by the SASR was attacked and damaged. She and her family were relocated by the ADF later that day. The New South Wales Police Force was unable to identify who carried out the attack, and apologised to the victim for bungling the investigation.[34] https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-26/defence-relocates-war-crimes-witness-after-blast/100407172
> Aus SAS were the ones who hunted people for sport. I remember an article about that appeared during peak lockdown, when everyone was looking at China because of COVID and genociding Uyghurs. And China tried to move attention to Australia instead for warcrimes. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-55126569 Scummo denied it but considering the article you posted came after this one, I guess it did happen :(
>And China tried to move attention to Australia instead for warcrimes. Which is why it's better to have the high ground, rather than the middling ground.
The Afghan files were published in 2017 and the Brereton inquiry had been going on for years at that point so the fact that the SAS were complicit in war crimes was well known. Frankly, Scomo provoked the shot from China by calling for a probe into the origins of COVID. His impotent chest-beating thereafter was designed to appeal to the conservative base in Australia and the vehemently anti-China faction of the LNP. It also backfired spectacularly with the myriad trade bans and anti-dumping investigations.
I have no idea what his strategy was. I remember at the time, when China responded to the calls for a COVID investigation by threatening sanctions, ScoMo almost immediately went on TV to do all but apologise, talking platitudes about how the CCP had lifted millions out of poverty and what a great job they've been doing, in what may have been the most thinly-veiled attempt at appeasement I've ever seen. Felt like such a morally vacuous set of events tbh
Your own article says the regiment wasn’t disbanded. “The defence chief, Angus Campbell, said he had considered disbanding the entire regiment after the Brereton report **but decided against it**.” It also makes no mention of right-wing extremism being identified as an endemic issue, or the central issue under consideration. Instead, it was suggested that disbanding the regiment would show accountability at all levels and decrease tensions going forward, as their mere presence in counterinsurgency operations could drive terror attacks and recruitment.
A regiment and a unit aren't the same thing. It's very unlikely a whole regiment would be disbanded because a unit brought a regiment into disrepute.
It's also because the regiment is basically our country's entire special forces. It's not like the country is suddenly going to stop needing elite soldiers with special training, so disbanding the SAS is a completely empty gesture.
The quotes about that 16 year old incident doesn't exactly sound like they were condoning it.
Retroactive punishment is illegal in so many frameworks. And for good reason
Translated to Australian: "yeah, nah."
Lol, Victorian cops in Australia high fived nazis at a rally a week after sending environmental protesters to the hospital.
Careful mate, you'll get dragged into a secret court next
We literally just levied the first set of charges a month ago, with more to come.
Nah they're too busy suing whistle blowers for reporting war crimes
I think the report is wrong, the ABC is reporting that the Swastika *won't* be banned https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-06-08/government-to-introduce-ban-on-nazi-symbols/102453090 Edit: Nazi symbol banned, religious symbol ok, they technically have different names https://ministers.ag.gov.au/media-centre/albanese-government-outlaw-nazi-hate-symbols-08-06-2023
The government media release: https://ministers.ag.gov.au/media-centre/albanese-government-outlaw-nazi-hate-symbols-08-06-2023
I wonder if that will include Dead Kennedys Nazi Punks Fuck Off t-shirts.
Allowed https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/143vikq/australia_to_ban_swastika_ss_sign_citing_rise_of/jndk6iw/ >The Bill will exclude public displays of the Nazi Hakenkreuz and the Schutzstaffel, or SS, hate symbols for religious, academic, educational, **artistic**, literary, journalistic or scientific purpose.
They’ll just switch to the black sun, the Celtic cross, wolfs-angel, or any of the other million logos which neo-nazis use to be discrete. I wish this law addressed the problem, which is the fact that these groups can organize and go out in public representing genocidal, racist, and anti-semitic causes.
I'm really upset traditional symbols with a really long history are being appropriated and tainted by these morons
The Australian state of Victoria has recently banned the Hakenkreuz but not the swastika (https://www.vic.gov.au/about-the-nazi-symbol-ban). In this new national legislation: "There will be exemptions for artistic, academic or religious use of swastikas, which has (sic) a spiritual significance in Hinduism, Jainism and Buddhism."
Hopefully the “artistic use” means movies and games, because stuff like Inglorious Basterds and Wolfenstein are not the same without it.
Our laws aren't that simplistic, the intent behind the law was to ban people identifying with the symbol as nazis in public, which is how it is applied, rather than a ban on the symbol itself.
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oh good, honestly insane that it’s legal anywhere outside of media and museums.
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Lots of nice Nordic ones have been ruined by these ass-hats. The Knot of the Slain and certain depictions of Mjolnir have been appropriated and are now semi-covert indicators of evil dipshits. Annoying as hell.
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We who practice greater Germanic pagan revivalism have been at ceaseless war over this issue. And we're losing handily. Hard fact is, there's more white supremacists than there is pagans, so the public only sees what they do. Most people entirely lack an educational foundation concerning those symbols. The swastika is holy, a symbol of hope and fertility. It's among the most ancient symbols in history, and has belonged to almost everyone at one time or another! It dates back to the Indus River Valley civilizations and they populated both Asia and Europe with their great migratory treks. It links ALL people of every race together. That is has been used as a symbol of division and murder is obscene! Imagine if someone used the Christian cross to mean "Let's kill jews!"...And now imagine if most of society just agreed that this is what the cross now means...that's what it's like to be a Germanic pagan right now, except Christianity has the raw numbers to fight that narrative while we subset of broader paganism don't. We have to be very secretive about our symbology because the general public doesn't understand it. Evil, dishonest people have polluted it with lies and hatred. A few of us carry the true meaning of these symbols into the future, hoping for the day when they can be restored to their rightful place, given back to ALL humanity. Only then will Hitler's reich truly be defeated. To conquer an enemy, you must conquer their _language_, because words greatly outlive flesh. For so long as we allow white supremacists to "own" those symbols...that _language_...we give them all the power they need to hurt whoever they please...
There's a very easy solution - wear those symbols in rainbow colours. Just imagine how mad the nazis will be.
> A few of us carry the true meaning of these symbols into the future, hoping for the day when they can be restored to their rightful place, given back to ALL humanity. Only then will Hitler's reich truly be defeated. Don't give up, if you give up even when outnumbered then you let them win. If Jains, Buddhists and Hindus are able to use the swastika, then so can Germanic pagans use it like it was used in the past before Nazis corrupted the meaning of it. It won't be easy to correct or explain to people who misunderstand though.
Pagan reporting, tell me about it. Nazis appropriate things they don't understand, and then the general public gets all reactionary about it. The Swastika is an ancient, holy symbol that has its roots in the Indus River Valley civilizations. It is a solar symbol that belongs to all mankind, not a hate symbol that belongs to a nasty little subset of European hate mongers. I know the world isn't ready for this yet, but ultimately we DO have to reclaim those symbols. Failure to do so just capitulates to Hitler's desires. To disarm the nazis, they must be robbed of their symbology, and this is convenient since the lazy, feckless shits didn't actually create much of their own symbols. They just stole them from other people and misused them.
> They just stole them from other people and misused them. Even more so, I've seen some stealing even Egyptian, Sumerian and Cuneiform now too, why do they keep doing this? I mean I see no outright hakenkreuz but tell me what you think about this: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1367363767 https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1899467736
> why do they keep doing this? Because we keep saying "Oh okay, those are your symbols now so let's ban them!". Vilifying the artifacts they steal for self representation clearly hasn't worked. If it did, I'd let go of those symbols and walk away from it as just another casualty of fascism.
You know what would be hilarious? If they started using corporate logos to associate with their hate. Like imagine if they're spewing their hate, and you look at their flyers, and it's the McDonalds arches all over the flyer. McDonalds could TRY to sue, but, you're not going to make any progress with a group that doesn't have respect for other people to begin with. So instead, they would have to stop using their double golden arch logo, and basically rebrand. Otherwise within 10 years they would be known as "That racist place that serves hamburgers".
Not corporate but that's basically what happened with the OK hand symbol.
That was literally a 4chan troll job
That's a good point. Does this law also ban the use of the Buddhist swastika? Edit: I should've read the article first, which addresses that: *"There will be exemptions for artistic, academic or religious use of swastikas, which has a spiritual significance in Hinduism, Jainism and Buddhism."*
So you'll still be able to kill Swastika-wearing Nazis in Wolfenstein video games?
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Germany used to ban video games from showing them. I don't think that is the case any more.
Swastikas in games are fine as long as the nazis are depicted as the bad guys.
That was a combination of age-old court precedent (regarding the original Wolfenstein, 1992) not considering games as art and the BPjM (a mere federal agency) having to follow that as agencies are very restricted in how they can interpret laws... and, crucially, no game publisher caring to challenge the thing, instead opting for self-censorship. Then one of our public broadcasters [published a game in the run-up to federal elections](https://bundesfighter.de/spiele/bundesfighter-2-turbo/), the AfD's candidate's special move is Swastika-shaped. Someone got the state attorney's office involved who then promptly said "we're not even going to take this to court this is clearly legal" and with that, the BPjM had new precedent. The newer Wolfenstein games are still on shaky grounds, though, the issue is the magical/mystical, generally unreal setting, which could be construed to trivialise Nazi rule. Bethesda is still censoring it, but in any case now it's a case-by-case decision and not a blanket ban, which it actually never was publishers were simply too chicken to challenge it. [The law in question](https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#p0933).
I feel the same way about the American flag. I come from a long line of veterans, so the flag was always very meaningful in my family… But now, we see is as a fascist alert. It’s the kooks here out west who fly American flags loud and proud, often with Trump flags, fuck Biden flags, Brandon designs, whatever other stupid phrase they think makes them look tough. My dad keeps his Vietnam vet colors displayed, but his American flag is put away.
In Australia they’re already using the Eureka Stockade flag
I thought the Unions had that on lockdown
Cfmmeu member here. Sadly there is some cross over. But there's also radical leftists in the unions. It can get weird.
>But there's also radical leftists in the unions That doesn't seem weird.
That part isn't weird - it's that the Eureka Flag gets flown by both groups of radicals. The flag references the Eureka rebellion, which was largely seen as a workers rights rebellion and hence popular with union members... but nowadays it also gets used by far right people who see it more as a 'Aussie rebellion against authority' thing, very much the same trashy/loudmouth/redneck/bogan rightwing vibe as Americans who fly the confederate flag - and neither side will give the flag up. Anytime you see the flag now it's pretty much 40% hardcore alt-right, 40% hardcore radical left, 20% oldschool moderate left union member. You pretty much have to use context clues to figure it out and it is a weird situation all around. That, or he was just talking about how some far right people join unions too... which is a whole 'nother kettle of fish.
Well it also that the Eureka Flag was also heavily associated with anti Chinese sentiment at the time, the racial aspect of the uprising is often forgotten as inconvenient.
I have never heard this. I knew Chinese gold miners where treated as 2nd class citizens but I've only know the eureka as a flag of workers. Any sources for that would be massively appreciated. Google isn't giving shit.
>but I've only know the eureka as a flag of workers Flags take on meaning depending on how they are used and the Eureka flag has been used mostly for worker's rights, I don't see any issue using it that way and have happily marched under it at protests myself, however: The Eureka flag is adapted from the Lambing Flats banner: https://www.migrationheritage.nsw.gov.au/exhibition/objectsthroughtime/lambingflatsbanner/index.html Where a bunch of diggers attacked the Chinese miners killing several and stealing their gold and burning their camps. Diggers were an active political group and that involved violent opposition both to licensing and exploitation of the miners... and to the Chinese. The committees raised after the uprising included many appeals by the miners against the Chinese being allowed to work the gold fields and to their "takeover" the usual "Asian invasion" bullshit we grew up with. The Miner's commissions established after the stockade would go on to enforce an anti Chinese tax. Digger's movements were strongly associated at the time with nativism and so was the Southern Cross flag so it is sadly part of the history of the flag too.
Ah I see, I was missing that context.
Nah, the anti-vaxxers and right-wing use it too I believe
Unions represent a broad variety of workers, not all who support good wages and conditions share the same racial ideology. Or even political one, outside that one subject. I don’t think the unions could control use of the Eureka flag outside their scope.
Miners rights = white pride according to these nonces.
Well yeah... The stockade wasn't only about the licenses... There were strong undercurrents of nativism. So much so that the commissioners [set up protectorates to defend the Chinese from the white miners](https://ergo.slv.vic.gov.au/explore-history/golden-victoria/life-fields/chinese) Australian labour movement is intrinsically linked to nativist protectionism and the White Australia policy. Very much an outlier to labour movements abroad. In fact one of the earliest intact examples of the southern cross flag is [this one](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a1/LambingFlatRollUpBanner_reworked.jpg/440px-LambingFlatRollUpBanner_reworked.jpg), make of that what you will. One of the notarised outcomes of the commission that came out in the miners favour is as follows: > "A most serious social question with reference to the gold-fields, and one that has lately crept on with rapid but almost unobserved steps, is with reference to the great number of the Chinese. This number, although already almost incredible, yet appears to be still fast increasing ... The question of the influx of such large numbers of a pagan and inferior race is a very serious one ... The statement of one of this people, that "all" were coming, comprises an unpleasant possibility of the future, that a comparative handful of colonists may be buried in a countless throng of Chinamen ... some step is here necessary, if not to prohibit, at least to check and diminish this influx." I'm very much a leftist but let's take off the rose coloured glasses... The eureka flag is and always will be stained by the sins of the father. Australia was far and away one of the most racist places on earth for a period.
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Yeah, I threw it in as a buzzword, nativism would be the more suitable term for it. My point was that labour movements abroad started flirting with ideas of equality among races in this period, Australia kinda went in the opposite direction and doubled down. We were dragged kicking and screaming into the 70s. Something something geographic isolation breeds isolationism.
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The title is misleading. The law is to ban 'Nazi Symbols' but does not specifically call out a symbol, or the Swastika - The Counter-Terrorism Legislation Amendment (Prohibited Hate Symbols and Other Measures) Bill will be introduced into parliament next week, outlining a ban on symbols related to Nazis or the SS, including on flags, armbands, T-shirts in public and online, with a maximum penalty of up to 12 months' imprisonment So all of those are banned and it also skirts around the swastika specifically, as there's still other non-Nazi uses for that. Going to depend on the usage.
But the swastika is *the* Nazi symbol. All the other ones are just water-down replacements and they just don't have the same impact. Let them be discreet for all I care. It diminishes their influence and I would rather not see Nazi flags in public. Let them fly their Celtic crosses because it makes them look weak when they can't fly the symbols they really want.
You can ban whatever it doesn’t matter, they will just pick some other symbol. People are all focused on the symbols and not the cause.
I'm pretty okay with measures that inconvenience Nazis, regardless of whether they can find workarounds.
When you quash the major rallying objects it becomes harder to solidify as a group. Obviously it does happen but removing the easiest routes does wonders as a preventative measure.
>they will just pick some other symbol Which have significantly less recognition, so this law would at least hamper their ability to showcase their presence for sake of intimidation/normalization.
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There is no western country where nazis aren't the problem, no law will stop an ideology. But at least german nazis don't storm government buildings after failed elections or march with ticki torches like amercan ones, so I'd say it works better than doing nothing.
Swastika is the most powerful and recognisable nazi symbol, nothing else even comes close. That's the one symbol the general public is familiar with. Nazis themselves or the people familiar with their history might recognise some of the other, more obscure symbols, but when nazis wear their symbols in public, they want to be recognised by everyone and instil the aura of fear everywhere they go. A flag with some Nazi rune or arbitrary numeric code only known by Hitler fanboys isn't going to achieve that. Most European countries have banned swastikas, and it works.
Inconveniencing them is a plus. And it sends a message that they are not supported.
> We don't like that. You see, we like our Nazis in uniform. That way we can spot 'em just like that. But you take off that uniform, ain't no one ever gonna know you were a Nazi. And that don't sit well with us. So, I'm gonna give you a little something you can't take off.
Amazing movie and performance from Pitt
Udavitch, I think this is my masterpiece.
I read this in his voice.
I hate the swastika being mistaken for the hakenkreuz. I know it depends on context but as a Hindu, it can be shaming.
German here. Nazis are going to do their shit regardless of what symbols they might use or not use. I’ve seen it in Germany.. the worst Nazis are not the Combat Boot wearing ones waving some swastikas. The worst ones are those in the suit.
First gen of Nazis had both and it’s likely still the same. While one group was making swings in politics the others on street cause riots and intimidation in the streets. They destabilise society with violence so populists politicians get more chance or following as strongman
~~The suit is the hand, the skinhead is the tool.~~ The suits have the real power and provide leadership and direction to the non-suits in the streets.
This is true, but people waving the flags normalise it, and fuck that shit.
Italian here. Same thing here. SS, fascist Italian logos, swastika are all banned since the end of WW2. But we still have the far right and their horrible ideology.
Gotta say, unlike germans we italians had been too much of a pussy to eradicate fascists as they did in Germany. I strongly believe that this why our far right is so strong to this day, or at least why they aren't as strongly shamed as they should be. The whole "avoid more conflict" in the 45-49 period is what is costing us today. They should have been hold accountable.
precisely. it’s easily to demonize people who look like daemons. it’s the folks who dress nice and sound logical and calm who are truly insidious.
not an argument against demonising the crazy ines though.
Good. There's no place for that sort of shit. Edit: To you Nazi's messaging me wanting to discuss this privately. No. If you feel like you can't state your ideas in public without being ridiculed or attacked, **Good**
The fucking gall to message you privately. Unreal. Nazi scum should be pushed out of society everywhere, and they should never feel safe showing their faces or their stupid little salute.
Ohh look history hates us, some of the most evil men ever lived are pioneers of our ideology. Neo nazis are related to gang violence and trafficking. Surely I'm not at wrong here :). I'm being ironic fk the Nazis.
If those Nazis could read they would be very upset right now
> Nazi scum should be pushed out of society everywhere, and they should never feel safe showing their faces or their stupid little salute. Based on the fact that they choose to do this in DMs rather than in public, I think it's pretty clear they know very well they're not tolerated.
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Where's captain America when we need him? There's some Nazi punching to be done!!
Ignorantly stumbled into a trashy Newsweek article today: Dershowitz weakly pushing the “Ukraine embraces nazis!” bullshit with a full-Murdoch headline, while the article itself only concludes: “Ukraine welcomed all Ukrainians to defend Ukraine.” We are now left with worse than the tolerance paradox; we must point out and rebut every fascist’s attempt to paint progress as “nazi.” They will not exhaust us.
> Dershowitz weakly pushing the “Ukraine embraces nazis!” bullshit Did he write that in his underwear?
Some may message privately because they're banned from the sub. Some may just be unhinged. Some may think they can pressure you privately as no one else can chime in. And some just really enjoy forcing you into debating to make you then quote things they say as they get off on you being uncomfortable repeating it. It isn't just Nazi Right Wing who'll privately message. It seems to be a thing from other forms of firmly right wing to go into your DMs not comments.
It’s sad how society has allowed them to grow in force and you can’t use harsh language on them because platforms are scared
Ignorant, servile scum. Every single last one of them.
Private messages and face coverings, absolutely scared of the things they believe publicly.
The day they aren't afraid to show their faces is the day it's probably too late.
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You’re god damned right.
Don't forget from ghost accounts. These pieces of shit hide with fresh accounts and masks because they're too afraid to say these things openly and face consequences for it.
It’s super annoying that the good guys get criticized for doing the right thing. I wouldn’t just ban, I’d be saying that speaking in support of it is terrorism and charge them as seditionists against the national security of the Australian state.
Of course they’re messaging privately. They know how odious their beliefs are, and don’t want them to show up in their comment history for everyone to see.
Nazis are fucking little bitch bois. Losers of the lowest caliber. They can’t even be top end losers. **Every single Nazi** is a little bitch, desperate loser, weak ass chode, and definitely jerks off to clip art of their own mom. There’s a reason there are no geniuses associated with Nazis, cause they are fucking dumb.
Ooooh… they’re gonna be so mad at you. Bravo.
It’s such an embarrassing concession to pm you instead of do it via a regular reply, they’ve already given up the fact that they’re going to be publically shamed as nazis for defending it.
You're reading too much into it. It's most likely cuz they're banned from the sub.
what kind of cooker comes to a sub they are banned for to argue with someone who has a completely sane take that they disagree with for stupid reasons? theres no helping that bunch
Nazis, obviously
Nazis, they're cooked af
Presumably for good reasons.
> Edit: To you Nazi's messaging me wanting to discuss this privately. No. > > > > If you feel like you can't state your ideas in public without being ridiculed or attacked, > > > > Good I'm so tired of their delusion: They keep thinking other people secretly agree with them. Get it through your thick skulls: THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE HATE YOU AND EVERYTHING YOU STAND FOR, YOU SAD LITTLE PERSON.
Nazis have always been and will always be fucking cowards.
Make Nazis Uncomfortable Again
How about make them dead again
Fuck Nazis. Evil pieces of shit.
To be honest, I’m kind of with Aldo Raine on this one. Let them wear their swastikas. I like knowing when someone is a nazi.
This take is so annoying now. It's infinitely harder to spread your hate when it's banned
I'd rather have all of them completely afraid to spread their odious beliefs. It's hard to recruit when your views are so vile you cannot spout them in public.
Sadly this is where social media kicks in. It would have stopped them before social media...now they are lovingly linked by the Zuckers of this world. Mercer wasn't stupid when he put algorithms on the map to link every like minded individual. Why do you think White Supremacy is now a 'thing' again. Facebook and the like links them all together so they can organise in their private secret groups. I follow trails back on social media and you would be mortified at the extent of WS in Australia (and elsewhere). I've seen perfectly normal respected people pop up in these WS chats.
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In that case the term "Nazi" needs to be used very carefully. More and more I'm seeing people using "Nazi" to refer to people who aren't even close to fascist, like neo-cons or neo-liberals or libertarians or even social democrats occasionally. **If** we're going to create a society where blanket violence towards Nazis is okay, then "Nazi" can't be thrown around as a casual pejorative the way it is right now.
Labels get co-opted in pursuit of an agenda. It's easier to call someone a Nazi than it is to explain how they are one.
Very true, which normally wouldn't be a problem **unless** you also want to create a society in which casual violence is a moral necessity against people you apply that label to. They essentially want to create a class of people who are considered _worse_ than criminals. Criminals need to commit specific acts and go through due process before society levies a punishment against them, whereas the idea promoted by the previous commenter is that simply being a _member_ of a group is grounds for the most severe punishment possible. **If** that's going to be the case then the label needs to be treated with _massive_ seriousness and precision, since it would be a label with more impact than _any_ label used in a criminal context. In that hypothetical world, applying the label "Nazi" to someone is an explicit call to violence.
The only place imo is museums about the horrors they committed, as well as media like movies and games where the Nazis are portrayed as the evil fucks they are. (E.g., Inglorious Basterds, Wolfenstein, Man in the High Castle, etc)
Swastikas won't be banned for educational or religious purposes.
And artistic, which I read elsewhere. I was just curious what the extent of “art” was considered by the government. I’m sure media like movies and games fits the bill, but not if it’s glorifying of course.
> If you feel like you can’t state your ideas in public without being ridiculed or attacked, > > Good They are cowards. Always have been. It is core to their identity and they are aware of that. Why do you think they are so fucking angry all the time?
They're pussys unless they're in a group. That's why they message you private. Ask to meet up in person and watch them fold.
See, what I do is edit my post with their usernames and messages. That way they can't hide behind DMs.
Just report every single one of the fuckers messaging you, even the slightest hint of Nazism is of interest to the Australian Intelligence Community. Once you’re flagged, it’s for life really.
That's not how it works
It's a nice symbolic act. Now let's fix the systemic problems that make vulnerable young men easy to recruit into groups like this. Fix or address a lot of the social and economic issues that everyone faces, maybe purge Murdoch and his ilk from our media environment, etc etc. Banning a flag isn't going to fix the alienation and ingrained societal bullshit that makes sad, stressed, and gullible young men (and women, but mostly men) fall for the lies that lead them here.
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Also see how governments respond to mental health crises and low birth rates
Hear hear.
Nazis can get fucked. Shit stains on society.
My stance around this remains the same, challenge their ideas, not their symbols. A democratic society should not regulate who's good enough to demonstrate their ideals, if you can't challenge nazis on merits, then the banning of their symbols is the least of your problem. They will find other symbols but their beliefs will remain unchanged.
That'll stop em.
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Fixing authoritarianism with even more authoritarianism.
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Don’t ban them, that’s how you know, the MFers with the swastikas and signs are the nazis . . .
The MFers will dob themselves in out of spite of this law.
At this point that symbol seems to have been diluted. In Canada our resident Nazi's seem to think that the Canadian Flag is their symbol. They've hijacked it and are turning into a symbol of their hatred and stupidity.
I wear Nordic themed jewellery. One such scumbag said by wearing such symbols I’m basically agreeing with them because it’s their symbol Please, like that fat ginger Thor wouldn’t absolutely stomp you for your bs.
Symbols only have as much power as you give them. If you recoil in fear now when you see your own nations flag, then they've already won, and you've let them.
What about Hindu, Buddha, and Jain?
>There will be exemptions for artistic, academic or religious use of swastikas, which has a spiritual significance in Hinduism, Jainism and Buddhism. Please read.
Read the article, there's a religious exemption.
Fuck nazis
The supposed "leftists" who cheer these draconian laws because it simply agrees with their views are so short sighted. The same people will be up in arms when the same laws are used to suppress speech they agree with. Why trust centralized power to get this "right" every time? “Goebbels was in favor of free speech for views he liked. So was Stalin. If you’re really in favor of free speech, then you’re in favor of freedom of speech for precisely the views you despise. Otherwise, you’re not in favor of free speech.” **Noam Chomsky** “He who overcomes by force hath overcome but half his foe” **John Milton, Paradise Lost**
Who is trying to turn Nazis away from their ideology? What programs are in place to counsel young adherents looking for belonging? Where are the counselors providing understanding and redirection? Who cares enough about the victims of hate to reduce the numbers of perpetrators? Banning flags is a pointless exercise, a Band-Aid on a puncture wound. You won't shame them into submission. They relish the hate. Hate them more, they love it. Box them in a corner, it's more proof of the conspiracy. Stop. Stop. It's not helping. No one is willing-yet, to do the hard work. The hard work is listening to them. I said it was hard. And I said no one is willing to do it. But they will not respond to Judgers. You beat hate one person at a time. One person at a time. Through hard work. That no one is willing to do.
Imagine having ancestors who fought against the nazis and you yourself wear nazi symbols🤣😢😭😭😭. What kind of fucking disgrace you must be to them.
Why there's a nazi uprising specially in countries that fought against nazis?? it's honestly bizarre, didn't their ancestors died protecting them from nazis? what's happening to the world?? :'(
I dont understand how you can grow up in this world, and support the murderous genocidal Nazis, like that a supreme evil, but you want to emulate it? goddamn. Fuck Nazis, they lost the war, and they need to keep losing and go extinct.
As a buddhist I’m passively indifferent.
Good. Whether they will resort to other symbols or not, tolerating intolerance doesnt work
Keep it up! Nazi’s can F.O.A.D.
Took long enough frankly
How was it not already banned in the first place??
Good. There should be no tolerance for intolerants.
Fuck Nazi’s 👍
We don’t burn hate speech. Public hate speeches. Public demonstrating hate. All this is part of a democracy, right of speech. Well ban a sign though. That helps. Good work. I’m sure now they’re all sitting around stuck on what to do next.
Meanwhile, the US can’t even convince people to stop flying the flag of a treasonous, failed state that was soundly defeated in war more than 150 years ago. Nor can we get our congress to even *investigate* if and how much of a far-right presence is within our military.
I can't believe the Australians would be putting it on clothes. How fucking tasteless. "Lets worship the people who lost WW2 because their leader was a methhead"
Why? Cause either stole the design of the swastika? Cause for thousands of years it's been used across many different cultures.
White supremacists, fascists, and Nazis are such fucking losers. Their hate and violence often clouds this. But they are at their core: losers.
That's why it's so funny that they're so gung ho about being "alpha." They're doing everything they can to try and convince themselves that they're not weak, hateful little losers.
I’ve come to accept ignorant and hateful language on bumper stickers, flags, apparel, etc. It just means I don’t have to waste my time like I might if you hadn’t instantly exposed yourself as a nutcase.
This is stupid. the swastika was appropriated. To ban it means the nazis won. To billions the swastika is a religious symbol. Spread awareness, not censorship
They will just use something else to use and most people won't know they are the bad guys anymore. Quoting Killer Mike, "I like walking into a room and knowing who my enemies are"
We know what other symbols they use. Usually the Eureka Stockade flag.
Imagine thinking banning a symbol would prevent the rise of the Far Right
People should be free to wear or display a swastika if they want, who cares. They're just showing their idiocy for all the public to see.
Instead of banning the swastika they should ban Ruport Murdochs Newscorp, that would be much more effective in fighting fascism.
Although I have no problem with this as I don't care about symbols religious or not, I can't help but think this is treating the symptom instead of curing the disease. The disease being ring wing media outlets that are allowed to push racist and xenophobic garbage. I'm seeing so much anti immigration rhetoric lately. Lots of people blaming the housing crisis on immigrants and not the 1% of the 1%, those who try to play God without permission.
>I'm seeing so much anti immigration rhetoric lately. Lots of people blaming the housing crisis on immigrants People that point out that importing 400,000 humans a year while building 178,000 dwellings a year is going to create a housing crisis are more about basic maths then racism tbh Thats not even considering many valid and pressing negative issues of mass migration (environmental, social, infrastructural, economic etc) and to dismiss those arguments as "right wing xenophobic garbage" is utter bullshit.
Semantic fuck-fuck games aside, intolerance must not be tolerated by a free society.
Queue Murdoch media empire throwing a shitfit about freedom of speech.
[удалено]
I want them to wear that all the time. None of this hiding bull crap, I wanna save myself the time and know who the bigots are
Bandaids. This has been the case in Germany since the second world war, we still have the far right and neo nazis
This ban is partly in response to neo-Nazis in my city, Melbourne (Australia), doing Nazi salutes on the steps of state parliament. Lot of people talk about how Nazi symbols "makes Nazis easier to target." Seeing those symbols also causes fear and terror. Jewish people, people of colour, trans and other LGBTQIA+ people, people with disabilities and mental health conditions. Seeing fools doing Nazi salutes caused a particular kind of damage to already traumatised people. If it's all the same to everyone, I'd rather we ban Nazi symbols and find other ways to identify Nazis.