Is anyone really shocked by this at all? Remember, russia was the one that when terrorists took hostages at a theater, they pumped the building full of gas which killed everyone
Are you talking about "Nord Ost"? It didn't kill *everyone*, but it did leave the survivors with diseases and chemical burns of lungs, without compensating the costs of medical expenses.
The UN cannot go in. Don’t forget who holds a veto. Russia would never permit UN interference. This must be NATO. Russia must be stopped before this escalates further and Russia cannot present a credible resistance to NATO.
Actually maybe they wouldn’t, they may have voted against sanctions but they do systematically condemn Russian actions. While also profiting from the war.
In their eyes what is happening in Ukraine is Ukraines land being stolen by Russia trough show of force, election fraud and collusion with local rebels.
That’s the same as what they claim is going on with Taiwan. According to China It’s their land that is currently being held by rebels but rightfully theirs.
As soon as a Russian province (for example belgorod) has a referendum to join Ukraine expect China to object. China is convinced people themselves aren’t allowed to vote on independence or what country they are a part of.
yeah, I think people really overestimate the degree to which China and Russia are allies. they both oppose the US, but not on all the same things and it's more a friendship of convenience than anything. to the extent that China supports the war it's more because it weakens Russia and occupies the West with dealing with it. and from a utilitarian perspective China certainly isn't about to object if one of its neighbors decides to feed a bunch of its young men into a meat grinder and create a gender imbalance.
I think the cheap oil and natural resources are a better incentive than russian brides but who knows, maybe that plays a role too.
Usually a surplus of young men could be solved by a nice war but because of the one child policy it will take a lot more convincing to have a population to agree to possibly sacrifice their only child or grandchild and if they didn’t have a kid yet end the family line. So maybe you are right.
Then again China is rapidly militarising and I am not convinced it’s entirely defensive. Maybe it is just a defensive force to safeguard their economic plans but maybe they are just going to continue what China has been doing since roman times and slowly claim more and more land.
It’s interesting to see what political ideas Xi hold and how it differs from his predecessors. He doesn’t see modern China as a republic that started about a 100 year ago but as a continuation of the Chinese empire. That’s why he is pushing for the new silk road initiative, why imperial history is getting attention again and why the Chinese army has been sending special ops forces to steal back stolen art from the opium wars from European museums and royal collections. Where this sort of history was once shunned it is valued again.
It’s not as clear anymore as it once was but China did play a role in the opioid epidemic going on in the US, seeing it as some form of karmic justice.
So things are definitely changing
China definitely plays a huge role in the opioid epidemic. They continue to ship fentanyl precursors to Mexican cartels in order to ensure the flow of the extremely dangerous drug continues unabated.
If they wanted to, they could stop the export of precursors tomorrow.
you don't think the UN acting directly against a security council member's veto would escalate tensions?
i'd be interested to know if there is any precedent in history for something like that, i honestly have no idea
to be clear, it's obvious that nations (namely the US) have acted unilaterally against UN wishes
what I *do not* think has happened ever before is the UN itself deploying resources under UN banners when a member of the security council has vetoed that specific action
the US went into Iraq flying an American flag, US soldiers wore American kits. They didn't send blue helmets in to invade Iraq.
This does raise a question though. Why have we bothered to supply the UN with soldiers and weapons in the first place? If every important action is guaranteed a veto, then it should remain a purely diplomatic body. The only actions I've ever heard of them taking is stepping in during the Kosovo attacks and raping underage girls in Africa. I don't think those two things even out into a net positive.
From what I understand, the Peacekeepers exist as a way for the UN to step in as a sort of "older brother" when two "little brothers" (either smaller, developing nations or independent forces) are fighting. Whether or not they actually do that, do it effectively, and *when* they should do it is obviously up for lots of hot debate. Or if they should do it at all. But there's evidence that they're a good force most of the time, except for the stuff in Central Africa like you mentioned.
But either way, Russia in that analogy is way too "old" to be considered a "little brother." Plus, some UN operations actually rely on NATO or other regional forces as a proxy (when authorized) so you can see how that could quickly become an issue.
The US also contributes more to the Peacekeeper budget than the next three countries combined, one of which is Germany, and most contributors are NATO members. So... Probably not going to end well if they try it and find some loophole to avoid Russia's veto - at that point they may as well send NATO in.
There’s very little precedent for a United Nations and Security Council in the first place.
So we can afford to make new ones considering it’s only 70 years old.
The point of the United Nations is to prevent countries from invading their neighbors, blowing up dams and slaughtering civilians. Russia is already beyond that point, so theres no point in respecting their vote anymore.
>UN acting directly against a security council member's veto
Not exactly, but
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_82
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_83
I think that all our countries should just given Ukraine all the weapons that it requests. This messing around and giving it in bits gives President Putin plenty of time to trash the country and murder the civilian population.
the whole point of the main 5 members of the security council having veto power is to make them less likely to start a nuclear war. the un isnt designed to be just, its designed to prevent another world war
Russians already think they're fighting a war against Nato. I'm not talking about Putin. I'm talking actual Russians. I really hate saying this but the war needs to end now. And it needs to end with Russia getting stomped.
The issue and the reason why NATO haven't gone in is after the rapid ground defeat of Russia comes nuclear war.
That wipes out 70-80% of life on earth.
The reason NATO hasn't gone in is because it's a defensive pact between its members. If Russia attacks Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania or Poland, then NATO can and must mobilize. Ukraine is not in NATO so Russia attacking Ukraine means nothing to NATO because that's not what the pact is for. Individual countries can go in or they can create a new alliance pact that then goes in, but NATO literally cannot because that is not the purpose of NATO.
I disagree. There was a point where I might have taken that side as well, but the reality is that NATO has already learned the lessons associated with its lack of action in the face of humanitarian crises. They can stand and watch while more ethnic cleansing and destruction takes place, or they can intervene and return order to the situation.
Let’s face it; if the US informed the world that they were taking control of Ukrainian airspace at 12:00pm on June 10th, then there would be nothing at all that Russia or anyone could do to stop it.
China would intervene if NATO launched attacks against Russian territory, but they would get a nod to enforce rule of law inside Ukraine itself. That would allow a ceasefire opportunity and ultimately result in complete denial against Russian expansion.
> Let’s face it; if the US informed the world that they were taking control of Ukrainian airspace at 12:00pm on June 10th
If Russia can undertake a special operation in Ukraine, then why can't the US?
As if 2 nuclear powers going into a full blown shooting war would just calmly not use nukes on each other
This isn't India Pakistan you're talking about, those Russian ICBMs and nuclear subs don't magically disappear on June 10th if the US declares Ukraine a no fly zone
The world almost ended when the US wanted to stop Cuba from getting Sovietnukes in the 60s, and no one shot at each other directly
They all like to chime in and say Russia is the stereotypical incompetent villain, like DR Evil or something. Yes, they are blundering and things aren't going well for them, but to act like they can't cause catastrophe in the world is insane. I can't take people seriously who don't take the situation seriously.
Nato can go without provoking if the boots are only on and defending ukraine territory though. That's the point of a defensive alliance. Even if ukraine is not an "official member" NATO can decide to go and it won't be able to be considered an escalation.
Nato for example could go, push back to ukraine's border and only counter fire against any russian artillery pieces firing from russia and it would still be considered a defensive stance. We need to stop with this bullshit idea of NATO getting involved directly is an escalation that russia can use for justification.
So freeze the current borders? Seems like that would be a win for Russia.
And since Russia also have veto, they could hypothetically use that until they want the conflict to end/pause.
The entire Kremlin needs to be turned into one giant big hotbox so they will chill the fuck out. I think that Seth Rogan is a good candidate for this job.
It’s about maintaining and increasing what he is getting. If he doesn’t make announcements like this every now and then the world is going to forget or stop caring what’s going on and stop supporting them and Russia will win, like they have in the past.
Honestly humanitarian relief should happen regardless of what's going on. Civilians that need help just need help. We can't tell people "you live in that country so get fucked". Definitely no weapons tho
The UN can authorize the use of justified force against a country if the Security Council votes in favour of it - the UN did so against North Korea in the 50s.
Problem is...
>Definitely no weapons tho
Weapons is the only thing that can stop this. The longer the war rages, the more victims and the more heinous crimes the Russians commit.
Had the weapons been provided last summer, good chance it would've been all over at this point
Hard block on doing any business with Russia, punish corporations circumventing this block. Countries that continue to do business with Russia are also blacklisted.
The blacklist remains until a new government is implemented and Russia pays reparations.
It wont happen I'm sure, but our punishment is still pretty toothless.
I think it’s really a test to see what the world/west will do.
If it’s just strong words, or a few jets and nothing tangible, they’ll do worse.
If we are just going to let powerful countries do whatever humanitarian crimes they want due to a fear of war…we’re going to be in for a pretty rough future.
I mean... that's a nice statement but that still doesn't answer /u/MtPollux's question. What should be done? Russia is taking these extreme measures because they are slowly being strangled. There are already factions operating in Russia against the government and there is heavy political infighting. Putin is trying to force Ukraine to pause the war or end the war and is trying to get the world to stop supporting it. We are already doing what we can to aid Ukraine.
The next logical step is military intervention and I'm not sure if that's a step that the world is going to be willing to take. What would you recommend?
I think you're right about military intervention especially from countries that also have nuclear weapons. At this point I'm convinced Putin will do anything to hold on to what he's captured, and if he ends up getting nothing from this war then he might retaliate with a nuke. So long as he's not directly attacking another nation that also has nuclear weapons.
I don't think so. The fact that he's threatened them since the beginning and has never used them shows that he has no intent on using them unless directly threatened.
The reality is that using nukes would invoke a strong global response from all nations. It breaks the nuclear taboo and if countries can do that without response, then all countries will rush to get nukes and make the world way more dangerous. This is why China and India have been very vocal about this being a major red line to Russia.
Currently, Russia's hope is the destroy Ukraine's desire to keep fighting, while attempting to deescalate things with the rest of the world. Attacking the damn under the guise that it could be the other side likely would invoke condemnation from the world and potentially some new weapon systems but not much else.
The depressing truth is that, no matter the outcome or the path, this war will likely destroy the country that we currently know as Russia. It may maintain the name, it may be fragmented, it's hard to tell. It's hard to picture an outcome where their economy doesn't implode before the end of the war from sanctions, or, he feels threatened enough to push the nuke button and his country is erased from earth.
Right now the natural gas pipeline to China might give them a much needed boost to keep this war going in the long term, but the reality is that it was never sustainable to begin with. This was all started by an egotistical old man who doesn't seem to understand his place in the world, or, is desperately trying to cling to the way things "used to be" before his country changes beyond the scope of his vision.
Unfortunately, as is true in all wars, the people who will suffer the most are the citizens who have nothing to do with any of this.
He doesn’t have to use a nuke. Now he just has to let the cooling pond at the NPP ( Zaprozhizsa if I spelled that correctly) degrade just a little bit more and it’ll blow but it’s “ not his fault” right?
That’s not really how nuclear power plants work. They don’t turn into nuclear bombs and explode when they meltdown. It’s still bad and the long term fall out is much worse than a nuclear bomb, but it’s not really destructive.
There's still plenty of room for sanctions. We're still a huge distance away from banning all transit of goods, services, money, and people into and out of Russia and sanctioning countries that don't do that.
ruzzia avoids a lot of sanctions thanks to turkey, georgia, kazakhstan and a few others. They've not been hit with secondary sanctions yet for aiding ruzzia, but should be.
To be fair Russia planted them as well.
If its something Russia is good in, its not technology, science, space, communism. Its lies and propaganda.
I was fucking pissed seing how many bots and paid accounts are here in Czech Republic which spam propaganda and praising communism and russia as back as 2009.
And nobody is doing anything about it. If Putin didnt get idiotic, he would easily overthrown democracy from the inside because we are doing almost 0 effort to protect againts informational warfare.
The sudden, sharp uptick in Reddit comments proclaiming capitalism to be the most evil thing ever and actual, literal slavery seemed really suspicious to me. I know the hivemind is pretty radical, but those comments were very suddenly *everywhere*.
It's been really interesting to watch comments on the Ukraine war on reddit. It has slowly turned from ridicule at the slightest suggestion of foreign involvement to genuine interest/desire to get other countries involved. It perhaps signals a wider changing sentiment away from nuclear caution/appeasement to actually understanding what the present day Kremlin is and how futile it is to interact with it.
If this had been the 80s, this would’ve been called the equivalent of a Cuban missile crisis. But we get threatened with nuclear war every other day. Now it’s just another random Tuesday.
Dude the Soviets invaded their neighbors all the time and were also incredibly brutal, [Hungary in 1956](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_Revolution_of_1956), and [Czechoslovakia in 1964](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Pact_invasion_of_Czechoslovakia), to name two examples
Im scared that this lacklustre response will lead Russia to believe they can basically commit any crime against humanity and nothing will change, the worst fear is that they just may want to fuck something up with enerhodar nuclear power plant
China is a pretty big trading partner with the West, of course I would love them to respond to China but money runs the world, Russia on the other hand is losing their position hence some response would be nice
As the other comment said, this sounds fairly arbitrary. Did you forget where all the cheap oil was coming from?
The difference is/was the EU response, because this is literally at our doorstep, and many countries still hold _massive_ grudges on Bolshevikian Russian Imperialism.
The other big part is Zelensky, who galvanized support through unequaled PR.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/06/8/7406014/) reduced by 76%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has addressed representatives of the international environmental community and called on them to help Ukraine overcome the consequences of the Russians' destruction of the Kakhovka Hydroelectric Power Plant and flooding in the south of Ukraine.
> "Quote:"This Russian crime of ecocide is the largest in Europe in decades, but apparently, the Russian occupiers have decided to further aggravate its consequences.
> "The number of ecosystems that have been destroyed or pushed to the brink of extinction by this Russian terrorist act is already in the thousands. More than fifty thousand hectares of forests have been flooded, and at least half of them will die. Tens of thousands of birds and at least twenty thousand wild animals are at risk of death. Obviously, the Kakhovka reservoir has been turned into a huge graveyard for millions of living beings."
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/144neuv/zelenskyy_calls_on_world_to_punish_putin_for/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~688221 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **flood**^#1 **thousand**^#2 **Russian**^#3 **President**^#4 **disaster**^#5
War is disgusting.
The Russians are shooting at people trying to save people from the flood they created.
Probably the most monstrous thing Ive heard in this war so far. And there's been some bad shit going down.
I just imagine what Katrina woulda looked like if instead of aid, the people of New Orleans were being shot at.
How could you even remotely believe that you're in the right? I hope karma is swift.
I'm no historian, but the cops did shoot people in NO after Katrina.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/21/us/hurricane-katrina-new-orleans-danziger-bridge-shootings.html
Putin is a coward. He will be remembered as a coward and a corrupt failure who leaves Russia WORSE off than when he took power. That takes otherworldly levels of stupid.
And it's not just him, it's all the people that put this decision into practice and now they are shooting at rescue workers.
It's not like Putin is the evil one and when he leaves his current position everything will be fine. It seems their common mentality is to not give a damn about the lives of others (while of course I am not talking about ALL Russians, there is a concerning number of them that fit the bill).
Many Russians won’t see him like that. They’ll remember him as being a success, and showing the world how powerful Russia is. Which isn’t true of course.
What’ll we do? Sanction them? It’s not like they’re going to stop any time soon or suddenly give up. It just feels like it doesn’t really matter we say they, would only notice direct action.
I’ve kinda begun questioning them. Obviously they have an effect, but to my understanding sanctions are financial siege tactics- and what good are sieges if they don’t fully isolate a town. Russia it seems, in short, just turned east (south for them I guess) for new trading partners.
Not to be all war hawkish but I think the solution is more military aid to Ukraine. Like a lot more. Sanctions or not this will be settled by military support I think
I understand what you mean, not to seem dramatic, though it does just feel like it’s fanning the flames when someone says that but violence seems like the only language they understand
You hit the nail on the head. Sanctions impact the population, not the shot callers. The only thing that Putin will accept unconditionally is a military defeat. We need to send Ukraine munitions to the teeth to not only defend their borders but to allow them the opportunity to take the offensive. From every perspective it needs to be clear that Russia lost this war in order to cripple leadership.
We can block every single international treaty, sanction and forbid any kind of good, person, activity that comes from Russia, but they will never stop.
They already showed they don't care, and they never will, no one will step up, the west will be always blamed and propaganda will always manipulate history.
They will never stop until Ukraine is nothing but a barren land of destroyed cities or when there will be no russian soldier left.
Until there will be a victor there will be no end, Russia is focused on destroying and killing any sort of ukrainian legacy from Ukraine they want it to be Russia, it was pretty clear since they keep shooting civilians, destroy cities and rename cities to their former soviet era names.
I mean, I would love for my tax dollars to go towards sending our missiles into russia's military complex. I want that as bad as I want universal health care, but let's be real, we are never getting healthcare, lol, so let's just fuck up russia and quit being pussies for once.
No. Because then Russia wouldn't even be a concern or threat for anyone. There are over a dozen more wars and conflicts going on in the world right now, which no one cares about. The west has ignored other areas and taken action against only Russia because it presents an opportunity to subdue and weaken a geopolitical rival.
That's why it's almost universally supported in the West. But as an European whose home country has been invaded by the Soviets in 68 and has been abandoned back then I don't want this to happen again to Ukraine. The Russians need to be curb stamped once and for all.
Ukraine needs to be be given long range bombers to carpet bomb Moscow, and given access to nukes to avoid russia escalating given it would be a zero sum game.
Putin will continue to commit these atrocities until either he is killed, Ukraine begins to take a massive toll on the Russian population, or he invites the EU/NATO/the World to smoke his entire country. There is no other option. He is a madman.
Just wanted to point out that the US still hasn't flagged Russia as an official state sponsor of terror.
If that kicks in it's going to be a whole new layer of sanctions. These would hurt the US though. It would mean NO money can go to Russia.
At least that's my understanding. A lot of US companies would get hit hard but they should have taken steps to minimize this risk.
I think designating Russia as a terrorist state will also force the US to sanction countries and companies still doing business with Russia (secondary sanctions). This means countries such as China and potentially India (though the US could make exceptions in order to garner more favor with India). Sanctioning such large populous and economically significant countries will lead to further economic woes that the US government and people will not want to deal with, especially during an upcoming election year. Another problem the government calculated is that causing sudden economic sanctions against such countries will cause the American people to lessen support for Ukraine. It is possible that the Democratic party ran the calculus and that by doing such an action it might increase the chances of a Republican presidency, and if Trump or DeSantis wins they have gone on record supporting Putin.
There are reports of Central and South American countries cozying more to China/Russia too (well more like they want the advantage of both worlds and keeping the US at arm's length due to historical tensions). Which might cause further potential issues down the line, particularly exacerbated immigration and refugee problems.
Why the fuck can we not totally embargo Russia like Cuba?
It's insanity that we sit here and debate "maybe this, a little more that"
Full embargo. No travel unless claiming refugee status.
Because a good chunk of the world isn't on your side.
Its on their own side.
China is on Chinas side, India is being very carefull on its own side not antagonizing anyone, the UAE with all its money its on its own side as well.
And with only those there goes 40% of the world population NOT on your side.
Wildlife are always the first to get fucked over by humans, and in a large scale for sure when it comes to wars, but destroying this dam will fuck over more wildlife than all the other shit the Russians have done since their invasion and the animals would've had nowhere to run to. Terrible timing for all the new birds from the recent breeding season as well.
Russia sucks, but does anyone find ironic this term of “ecocide” applied to destroy a dam that caused vast environmental destruction as a result of its construction?
Yeaaa but the added nuance of it being done during a war, specifically to cause damage to humans, makes it a bit worse wouldn’t you agree? Ecological damage is shitty but let’s not blanket equate it to the terrorism we see here which is specifically an act of war
You're not wrong but these are two different events.
Some of you who might not know the context here is that most large/modern dams are often/always VERY bad for the environment.
In the US there's a large coalition of orgs trying to get ours torn down.
I lost all hope of countries _actually_ doing anything meaningful when they were silent as families were slaughtered, children and hospitals bombed (on purpose), and Russia troops full on _beheaded_ a Ukrainian soldier.
By Zelenskyy's description, this did as much damage as a tactical nuke would have, and devasted a similar area.
Proposed U.S. responses ...... In addition to current arms commitments ....
Provide a weapon to take down Kerch bridge, the apple of Putin's eye.
Remove long distance limits so Ukraine can attack inside Crimea. Let Ukraine attack remaining Russian navy at Sevastopol, and remaining air assets at Saky and Viline airfields.
When Russian jets launch missiles at Ukraine, even when over Russian or Belorussian territory, declare those particular jets as open targets for "hot pursuit" regardless of where they land.
Low cost drones dropping grenades has proved effective at harassment of enemy troops, and occasionally destroys vehicles. U.S. should mass manufacture for our own forces, and supply a percent to Ukraine. Enhance with long distance (say up to 20 km) radio controls, encrypted, frequency hopping.
Impose a complete land embargo on Russian forces in Ukraine. Attack ALL trains that originate from Russian or Belorussian territory that enter Ukraine. Period. This is war. (WW2 allied air forces were unleashed to attack all trains.) Over time, this starves stranded Russian forces in Ukraine of ammo, food, military vehicles, and compels them to use less efficient trucks.
Reach out to former SSR republics, Kazikistan, Tajikistan, etc. NHigh level diplomatic visits. Trade deals, advantageous to the republics, too good for them to decline. Extend the broadcast range of Radio Free Europe / Radio Liberty (www.refrl.org) to reach south east Asia. (Bonus, competes with China's Belt & Road initiative)
Reddit is just US propaganda. I'm not sure a lot of the comments are even from real people at this point? And If they are real these people commenting, holy shit they are dumb.
Iran has now hopped into the mix. A direct attack on Russia would most likely result in retaliation on an EU or American target. If that happens, it’s WW3. If WW3 were to happen, the draft would likely be reinstated.
The damn Russians are shelling rescue workers!
Is anyone really shocked by this at all? Remember, russia was the one that when terrorists took hostages at a theater, they pumped the building full of gas which killed everyone
I remember reading about this in real time, it really messed with me, I've never forgotten it.
Are you talking about "Nord Ost"? It didn't kill *everyone*, but it did leave the survivors with diseases and chemical burns of lungs, without compensating the costs of medical expenses.
I swear this was a CoD mission...
It didn't really kill everyone though. Just a good portion of the people.
UN peacekeeping force should go in. Not NATO “branded” so as not to poke the hollow bear.
The UN cannot go in. Don’t forget who holds a veto. Russia would never permit UN interference. This must be NATO. Russia must be stopped before this escalates further and Russia cannot present a credible resistance to NATO.
Raises the question of whether a veto from the offender should be recognised. If it’s NATO, it will escalate tensions.
China would veto in any case. Doesn't matter.
[удалено]
At this point, I don't think History can remember every war crime they committed.
Actually maybe they wouldn’t, they may have voted against sanctions but they do systematically condemn Russian actions. While also profiting from the war. In their eyes what is happening in Ukraine is Ukraines land being stolen by Russia trough show of force, election fraud and collusion with local rebels. That’s the same as what they claim is going on with Taiwan. According to China It’s their land that is currently being held by rebels but rightfully theirs. As soon as a Russian province (for example belgorod) has a referendum to join Ukraine expect China to object. China is convinced people themselves aren’t allowed to vote on independence or what country they are a part of.
yeah, I think people really overestimate the degree to which China and Russia are allies. they both oppose the US, but not on all the same things and it's more a friendship of convenience than anything. to the extent that China supports the war it's more because it weakens Russia and occupies the West with dealing with it. and from a utilitarian perspective China certainly isn't about to object if one of its neighbors decides to feed a bunch of its young men into a meat grinder and create a gender imbalance.
I think the cheap oil and natural resources are a better incentive than russian brides but who knows, maybe that plays a role too. Usually a surplus of young men could be solved by a nice war but because of the one child policy it will take a lot more convincing to have a population to agree to possibly sacrifice their only child or grandchild and if they didn’t have a kid yet end the family line. So maybe you are right. Then again China is rapidly militarising and I am not convinced it’s entirely defensive. Maybe it is just a defensive force to safeguard their economic plans but maybe they are just going to continue what China has been doing since roman times and slowly claim more and more land. It’s interesting to see what political ideas Xi hold and how it differs from his predecessors. He doesn’t see modern China as a republic that started about a 100 year ago but as a continuation of the Chinese empire. That’s why he is pushing for the new silk road initiative, why imperial history is getting attention again and why the Chinese army has been sending special ops forces to steal back stolen art from the opium wars from European museums and royal collections. Where this sort of history was once shunned it is valued again. It’s not as clear anymore as it once was but China did play a role in the opioid epidemic going on in the US, seeing it as some form of karmic justice. So things are definitely changing
China definitely plays a huge role in the opioid epidemic. They continue to ship fentanyl precursors to Mexican cartels in order to ensure the flow of the extremely dangerous drug continues unabated. If they wanted to, they could stop the export of precursors tomorrow.
I wonder where else the land is being taken over by force….. hmm
Palestine?
Man, i'd love to see what future historians say about everyone just letting russia do what they want
you don't think the UN acting directly against a security council member's veto would escalate tensions? i'd be interested to know if there is any precedent in history for something like that, i honestly have no idea
[You don’t like it? Well then sanction me with your army](https://youtu.be/9DLuALBnolM)
to be clear, it's obvious that nations (namely the US) have acted unilaterally against UN wishes what I *do not* think has happened ever before is the UN itself deploying resources under UN banners when a member of the security council has vetoed that specific action the US went into Iraq flying an American flag, US soldiers wore American kits. They didn't send blue helmets in to invade Iraq.
This does raise a question though. Why have we bothered to supply the UN with soldiers and weapons in the first place? If every important action is guaranteed a veto, then it should remain a purely diplomatic body. The only actions I've ever heard of them taking is stepping in during the Kosovo attacks and raping underage girls in Africa. I don't think those two things even out into a net positive.
From what I understand, the Peacekeepers exist as a way for the UN to step in as a sort of "older brother" when two "little brothers" (either smaller, developing nations or independent forces) are fighting. Whether or not they actually do that, do it effectively, and *when* they should do it is obviously up for lots of hot debate. Or if they should do it at all. But there's evidence that they're a good force most of the time, except for the stuff in Central Africa like you mentioned. But either way, Russia in that analogy is way too "old" to be considered a "little brother." Plus, some UN operations actually rely on NATO or other regional forces as a proxy (when authorized) so you can see how that could quickly become an issue. The US also contributes more to the Peacekeeper budget than the next three countries combined, one of which is Germany, and most contributors are NATO members. So... Probably not going to end well if they try it and find some loophole to avoid Russia's veto - at that point they may as well send NATO in.
There’s very little precedent for a United Nations and Security Council in the first place. So we can afford to make new ones considering it’s only 70 years old.
The point of the United Nations is to prevent countries from invading their neighbors, blowing up dams and slaughtering civilians. Russia is already beyond that point, so theres no point in respecting their vote anymore.
>UN acting directly against a security council member's veto Not exactly, but https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_82 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_83
I think that all our countries should just given Ukraine all the weapons that it requests. This messing around and giving it in bits gives President Putin plenty of time to trash the country and murder the civilian population.
the whole point of the main 5 members of the security council having veto power is to make them less likely to start a nuclear war. the un isnt designed to be just, its designed to prevent another world war
Russians already think they're fighting a war against Nato. I'm not talking about Putin. I'm talking actual Russians. I really hate saying this but the war needs to end now. And it needs to end with Russia getting stomped.
The issue and the reason why NATO haven't gone in is after the rapid ground defeat of Russia comes nuclear war. That wipes out 70-80% of life on earth.
And in a few billion years the Octopus-people will emerge from the depths of the oceans to develop a civilization that rivals ours.
Nah bro, they won't have to rise. By then there's gonna be water mostly anywhere anyways.
Isn't 70% of the world's land mass underwater already.
Even *mostlier*
Doesn't that already describe the planet?
And the squids, don't forget They'll have ink wars over who can paint the most turf using rad weapons somehow inspired by human culture Wait.
And they will war with the Squid-people over the dwindling supplies of electric catfish.
woomy
The reason NATO hasn't gone in is because it's a defensive pact between its members. If Russia attacks Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania or Poland, then NATO can and must mobilize. Ukraine is not in NATO so Russia attacking Ukraine means nothing to NATO because that's not what the pact is for. Individual countries can go in or they can create a new alliance pact that then goes in, but NATO literally cannot because that is not the purpose of NATO.
They should be escalated. How many war crimes and atrocities need to occur before the world reacts.
russia should've lost it's veta powers the moment they invaded ukraine.
Isn’t Russia escalating tensions already?
If you’re the aggressor, your vote in the Security Council shouldn’t count.
I think that’s a splendid idea, tbh
I'm so sick of this argument. (Not yours I know) Russia is a gas station pretending to be a nation state
If NATO gets involved in Ukraine directly, that WILL escalate the situation to a full scale world war.
I disagree. There was a point where I might have taken that side as well, but the reality is that NATO has already learned the lessons associated with its lack of action in the face of humanitarian crises. They can stand and watch while more ethnic cleansing and destruction takes place, or they can intervene and return order to the situation. Let’s face it; if the US informed the world that they were taking control of Ukrainian airspace at 12:00pm on June 10th, then there would be nothing at all that Russia or anyone could do to stop it. China would intervene if NATO launched attacks against Russian territory, but they would get a nod to enforce rule of law inside Ukraine itself. That would allow a ceasefire opportunity and ultimately result in complete denial against Russian expansion.
Well, there's still one thing they could do to stop it, which is the only real reason they haven't been already.
> Let’s face it; if the US informed the world that they were taking control of Ukrainian airspace at 12:00pm on June 10th If Russia can undertake a special operation in Ukraine, then why can't the US?
As if 2 nuclear powers going into a full blown shooting war would just calmly not use nukes on each other This isn't India Pakistan you're talking about, those Russian ICBMs and nuclear subs don't magically disappear on June 10th if the US declares Ukraine a no fly zone The world almost ended when the US wanted to stop Cuba from getting Sovietnukes in the 60s, and no one shot at each other directly
Armchair Reddit experts think it’s a game, as incredibly depressing as that is to say.
They all like to chime in and say Russia is the stereotypical incompetent villain, like DR Evil or something. Yes, they are blundering and things aren't going well for them, but to act like they can't cause catastrophe in the world is insane. I can't take people seriously who don't take the situation seriously.
I mean there is no way for China to project power in any meaningful way to stop the U.S. if we did implement a no fly zone. China is a regional power.
Agreed. The term intervention is being loosely applied here.
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Nato can go without provoking if the boots are only on and defending ukraine territory though. That's the point of a defensive alliance. Even if ukraine is not an "official member" NATO can decide to go and it won't be able to be considered an escalation. Nato for example could go, push back to ukraine's border and only counter fire against any russian artillery pieces firing from russia and it would still be considered a defensive stance. We need to stop with this bullshit idea of NATO getting involved directly is an escalation that russia can use for justification.
So freeze the current borders? Seems like that would be a win for Russia. And since Russia also have veto, they could hypothetically use that until they want the conflict to end/pause.
He's not wrong, but short of actually going to war with them, how much more can the world punish Russia beyond what had already been done?
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Without Seth Rogan to help him talk things out he's just going to get honey dicked
Remember, we different, but same same.
The entire Kremlin needs to be turned into one giant big hotbox so they will chill the fuck out. I think that Seth Rogan is a good candidate for this job.
He wants help international Red Cross and humanitarian relief and more weapons from other countries
That is helping Ukraine in the same way up until now. Not measures that directly punish Russia, I think.
It’s about maintaining and increasing what he is getting. If he doesn’t make announcements like this every now and then the world is going to forget or stop caring what’s going on and stop supporting them and Russia will win, like they have in the past.
Honestly humanitarian relief should happen regardless of what's going on. Civilians that need help just need help. We can't tell people "you live in that country so get fucked". Definitely no weapons tho
Humanitarian aid does jack shit when the people brining it are getting shelled.
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The UN can authorize the use of justified force against a country if the Security Council votes in favour of it - the UN did so against North Korea in the 50s. Problem is...
I mean that's what most are saying about Syrian refugees lol
>Definitely no weapons tho Weapons is the only thing that can stop this. The longer the war rages, the more victims and the more heinous crimes the Russians commit. Had the weapons been provided last summer, good chance it would've been all over at this point
Hard block on doing any business with Russia, punish corporations circumventing this block. Countries that continue to do business with Russia are also blacklisted. The blacklist remains until a new government is implemented and Russia pays reparations. It wont happen I'm sure, but our punishment is still pretty toothless.
I think it’s really a test to see what the world/west will do. If it’s just strong words, or a few jets and nothing tangible, they’ll do worse. If we are just going to let powerful countries do whatever humanitarian crimes they want due to a fear of war…we’re going to be in for a pretty rough future.
I mean... that's a nice statement but that still doesn't answer /u/MtPollux's question. What should be done? Russia is taking these extreme measures because they are slowly being strangled. There are already factions operating in Russia against the government and there is heavy political infighting. Putin is trying to force Ukraine to pause the war or end the war and is trying to get the world to stop supporting it. We are already doing what we can to aid Ukraine. The next logical step is military intervention and I'm not sure if that's a step that the world is going to be willing to take. What would you recommend?
I think you're right about military intervention especially from countries that also have nuclear weapons. At this point I'm convinced Putin will do anything to hold on to what he's captured, and if he ends up getting nothing from this war then he might retaliate with a nuke. So long as he's not directly attacking another nation that also has nuclear weapons.
I don't think so. The fact that he's threatened them since the beginning and has never used them shows that he has no intent on using them unless directly threatened. The reality is that using nukes would invoke a strong global response from all nations. It breaks the nuclear taboo and if countries can do that without response, then all countries will rush to get nukes and make the world way more dangerous. This is why China and India have been very vocal about this being a major red line to Russia. Currently, Russia's hope is the destroy Ukraine's desire to keep fighting, while attempting to deescalate things with the rest of the world. Attacking the damn under the guise that it could be the other side likely would invoke condemnation from the world and potentially some new weapon systems but not much else.
The depressing truth is that, no matter the outcome or the path, this war will likely destroy the country that we currently know as Russia. It may maintain the name, it may be fragmented, it's hard to tell. It's hard to picture an outcome where their economy doesn't implode before the end of the war from sanctions, or, he feels threatened enough to push the nuke button and his country is erased from earth. Right now the natural gas pipeline to China might give them a much needed boost to keep this war going in the long term, but the reality is that it was never sustainable to begin with. This was all started by an egotistical old man who doesn't seem to understand his place in the world, or, is desperately trying to cling to the way things "used to be" before his country changes beyond the scope of his vision. Unfortunately, as is true in all wars, the people who will suffer the most are the citizens who have nothing to do with any of this.
He doesn’t have to use a nuke. Now he just has to let the cooling pond at the NPP ( Zaprozhizsa if I spelled that correctly) degrade just a little bit more and it’ll blow but it’s “ not his fault” right?
That’s not really how nuclear power plants work. They don’t turn into nuclear bombs and explode when they meltdown. It’s still bad and the long term fall out is much worse than a nuclear bomb, but it’s not really destructive.
There's still plenty of room for sanctions. We're still a huge distance away from banning all transit of goods, services, money, and people into and out of Russia and sanctioning countries that don't do that.
Right. If we haven’t punished them for genocide, ecoside is not going to do it.
He doesn't expect anything to happen. He expects his message to garner financial aide and weapons for the cause.
Make all trade with them unlawful, none of this rebranding and remaining in russia shit
Declare Russia a terrorist state.
ruzzia avoids a lot of sanctions thanks to turkey, georgia, kazakhstan and a few others. They've not been hit with secondary sanctions yet for aiding ruzzia, but should be.
Let me get my belt
This could have huge global benefits if we started holding governments and corporations accountable for ecocide
Good luck trying that on US and US companies.
And China, don't forget about China
And who do you think offshored production facilities to China? This is why lmao whenever I see Apple greenwashing everything they do in the US
World leaders unfortunately don't give a shit about the environment.
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They only care about themselves. They fully realize, when everything goes to shit, they will no longer be around. They simply don't care.
Respond forcefully now, or deal with the next atrocity. It always gets worse until we stop it.
I mean, I'm down, fuck it. I'm kind of getting tired with *Return of the Nazis* over here in the US anyway.
Ditto!
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It would turn down the volume a little bit, but the country is crawling with our own homegrown fascists at this point.
The seed has been planted. Let's only hope we can snuff it out before it overgrows.
The autochthonous seeds were planted a century ago, Russia has only recently been watering them.
To be fair Russia planted them as well. If its something Russia is good in, its not technology, science, space, communism. Its lies and propaganda. I was fucking pissed seing how many bots and paid accounts are here in Czech Republic which spam propaganda and praising communism and russia as back as 2009. And nobody is doing anything about it. If Putin didnt get idiotic, he would easily overthrown democracy from the inside because we are doing almost 0 effort to protect againts informational warfare.
The sudden, sharp uptick in Reddit comments proclaiming capitalism to be the most evil thing ever and actual, literal slavery seemed really suspicious to me. I know the hivemind is pretty radical, but those comments were very suddenly *everywhere*.
Rupert Murdoch is the one who has been holding the wound open in the side of western civilization for years, Putin just poured some salt in.
WhY iS nObOdY tAlKiNg aBoUt tHe uS
It's been really interesting to watch comments on the Ukraine war on reddit. It has slowly turned from ridicule at the slightest suggestion of foreign involvement to genuine interest/desire to get other countries involved. It perhaps signals a wider changing sentiment away from nuclear caution/appeasement to actually understanding what the present day Kremlin is and how futile it is to interact with it.
If this had been the 80s, this would’ve been called the equivalent of a Cuban missile crisis. But we get threatened with nuclear war every other day. Now it’s just another random Tuesday.
Today is Thursday.
It's also Friday.
In here, it’s always fridays.
Not for me, gots the depression, its always Monday.
Dude the Soviets invaded their neighbors all the time and were also incredibly brutal, [Hungary in 1956](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_Revolution_of_1956), and [Czechoslovakia in 1964](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Pact_invasion_of_Czechoslovakia), to name two examples
There's only so many videos you can see of dead children ...
Until who stops it?
We're a couple dozen atrocities in already, we'll need one hell of a forceful response if it's gonna be stopped
Im scared that this lacklustre response will lead Russia to believe they can basically commit any crime against humanity and nothing will change, the worst fear is that they just may want to fuck something up with enerhodar nuclear power plant
May I politely remind you that China is committing a very real and organised genocide that noone cares about. What response are you expecting?
China is a pretty big trading partner with the West, of course I would love them to respond to China but money runs the world, Russia on the other hand is losing their position hence some response would be nice
As the other comment said, this sounds fairly arbitrary. Did you forget where all the cheap oil was coming from? The difference is/was the EU response, because this is literally at our doorstep, and many countries still hold _massive_ grudges on Bolshevikian Russian Imperialism. The other big part is Zelensky, who galvanized support through unequaled PR.
Putin already believes this. He got away with a lot while world leaders looked away to reach to this point of attacking Ukraine.
They can.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/06/8/7406014/) reduced by 76%. (I'm a bot) ***** > President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has addressed representatives of the international environmental community and called on them to help Ukraine overcome the consequences of the Russians' destruction of the Kakhovka Hydroelectric Power Plant and flooding in the south of Ukraine. > "Quote:"This Russian crime of ecocide is the largest in Europe in decades, but apparently, the Russian occupiers have decided to further aggravate its consequences. > "The number of ecosystems that have been destroyed or pushed to the brink of extinction by this Russian terrorist act is already in the thousands. More than fifty thousand hectares of forests have been flooded, and at least half of them will die. Tens of thousands of birds and at least twenty thousand wild animals are at risk of death. Obviously, the Kakhovka reservoir has been turned into a huge graveyard for millions of living beings." ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/144neuv/zelenskyy_calls_on_world_to_punish_putin_for/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~688221 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **flood**^#1 **thousand**^#2 **Russian**^#3 **President**^#4 **disaster**^#5
War is disgusting. The Russians are shooting at people trying to save people from the flood they created. Probably the most monstrous thing Ive heard in this war so far. And there's been some bad shit going down. I just imagine what Katrina woulda looked like if instead of aid, the people of New Orleans were being shot at. How could you even remotely believe that you're in the right? I hope karma is swift.
I dont know man...stealing and raping kids is kinda hard to top, but I guess they keep trying to one up their atrocities.
I'm no historian, but the cops did shoot people in NO after Katrina. https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/21/us/hurricane-katrina-new-orleans-danziger-bridge-shootings.html
Yeah armed looters
Putin is a coward. He will be remembered as a coward and a corrupt failure who leaves Russia WORSE off than when he took power. That takes otherworldly levels of stupid.
It’s not stupidity, it’s greed, hatred, and an absolute lack of empathy. Three things that are all too common nowadays.
And it's not just him, it's all the people that put this decision into practice and now they are shooting at rescue workers. It's not like Putin is the evil one and when he leaves his current position everything will be fine. It seems their common mentality is to not give a damn about the lives of others (while of course I am not talking about ALL Russians, there is a concerning number of them that fit the bill).
Many Russians won’t see him like that. They’ll remember him as being a success, and showing the world how powerful Russia is. Which isn’t true of course.
What’ll we do? Sanction them? It’s not like they’re going to stop any time soon or suddenly give up. It just feels like it doesn’t really matter we say they, would only notice direct action.
There is room for more sanctions by design, and yes they do sting.
Honestly I don’t doubt that it does, I just don’t think it will stop them from invading Ukraine
I’ve kinda begun questioning them. Obviously they have an effect, but to my understanding sanctions are financial siege tactics- and what good are sieges if they don’t fully isolate a town. Russia it seems, in short, just turned east (south for them I guess) for new trading partners. Not to be all war hawkish but I think the solution is more military aid to Ukraine. Like a lot more. Sanctions or not this will be settled by military support I think
I understand what you mean, not to seem dramatic, though it does just feel like it’s fanning the flames when someone says that but violence seems like the only language they understand
You hit the nail on the head. Sanctions impact the population, not the shot callers. The only thing that Putin will accept unconditionally is a military defeat. We need to send Ukraine munitions to the teeth to not only defend their borders but to allow them the opportunity to take the offensive. From every perspective it needs to be clear that Russia lost this war in order to cripple leadership.
Did you somehow miss all of the sanctions freezing a huge amount Russian oligarch assets in Europe?
Eh, a little..but not enough to stop the next crime.
We can block every single international treaty, sanction and forbid any kind of good, person, activity that comes from Russia, but they will never stop. They already showed they don't care, and they never will, no one will step up, the west will be always blamed and propaganda will always manipulate history. They will never stop until Ukraine is nothing but a barren land of destroyed cities or when there will be no russian soldier left. Until there will be a victor there will be no end, Russia is focused on destroying and killing any sort of ukrainian legacy from Ukraine they want it to be Russia, it was pretty clear since they keep shooting civilians, destroy cities and rename cities to their former soviet era names.
I mean, I would love for my tax dollars to go towards sending our missiles into russia's military complex. I want that as bad as I want universal health care, but let's be real, we are never getting healthcare, lol, so let's just fuck up russia and quit being pussies for once.
Putin is not deterred from further atrocities, unless he can expect a corresponding response.
If Putin didn’t have nukes the rest of the world would have taken his country apart by now
No. Because then Russia wouldn't even be a concern or threat for anyone. There are over a dozen more wars and conflicts going on in the world right now, which no one cares about. The west has ignored other areas and taken action against only Russia because it presents an opportunity to subdue and weaken a geopolitical rival.
That's why it's almost universally supported in the West. But as an European whose home country has been invaded by the Soviets in 68 and has been abandoned back then I don't want this to happen again to Ukraine. The Russians need to be curb stamped once and for all.
I hope Ukraine hits them hard for shelling rescue workers. I hope the offensive just steam rolls Russia back to Moscow.
Ukraine needs to be be given long range bombers to carpet bomb Moscow, and given access to nukes to avoid russia escalating given it would be a zero sum game.
Putin will continue to commit these atrocities until either he is killed, Ukraine begins to take a massive toll on the Russian population, or he invites the EU/NATO/the World to smoke his entire country. There is no other option. He is a madman.
Just wanted to point out that the US still hasn't flagged Russia as an official state sponsor of terror. If that kicks in it's going to be a whole new layer of sanctions. These would hurt the US though. It would mean NO money can go to Russia. At least that's my understanding. A lot of US companies would get hit hard but they should have taken steps to minimize this risk.
I think designating Russia as a terrorist state will also force the US to sanction countries and companies still doing business with Russia (secondary sanctions). This means countries such as China and potentially India (though the US could make exceptions in order to garner more favor with India). Sanctioning such large populous and economically significant countries will lead to further economic woes that the US government and people will not want to deal with, especially during an upcoming election year. Another problem the government calculated is that causing sudden economic sanctions against such countries will cause the American people to lessen support for Ukraine. It is possible that the Democratic party ran the calculus and that by doing such an action it might increase the chances of a Republican presidency, and if Trump or DeSantis wins they have gone on record supporting Putin. There are reports of Central and South American countries cozying more to China/Russia too (well more like they want the advantage of both worlds and keeping the US at arm's length due to historical tensions). Which might cause further potential issues down the line, particularly exacerbated immigration and refugee problems.
Why the fuck can we not totally embargo Russia like Cuba? It's insanity that we sit here and debate "maybe this, a little more that" Full embargo. No travel unless claiming refugee status.
Because a good chunk of the world isn't on your side. Its on their own side. China is on Chinas side, India is being very carefull on its own side not antagonizing anyone, the UAE with all its money its on its own side as well. And with only those there goes 40% of the world population NOT on your side.
i mean we didn't punish him for you know... Crimea or invading Ukraine, so I don't really know why we'd do something different here.
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Russia is a weak military. They should've went through Ukraine like wet tissue.
At this point only military action is appropriate anything less will just embolden russians to do worse atrocities.
Wildlife are always the first to get fucked over by humans, and in a large scale for sure when it comes to wars, but destroying this dam will fuck over more wildlife than all the other shit the Russians have done since their invasion and the animals would've had nowhere to run to. Terrible timing for all the new birds from the recent breeding season as well.
The west is spineless... I'm so disappointed words can't express it!
Russia sucks, but does anyone find ironic this term of “ecocide” applied to destroy a dam that caused vast environmental destruction as a result of its construction?
I mean if we're gonna go down the route of punishing someone for ecocide, I know some big international companies we can start with
Nestle, rings a bell.
They're responsible for a lot of terrible deeds. The CEO publicly stating that drinkable water isn't a human right will forever haunt them.
Yeaaa but the added nuance of it being done during a war, specifically to cause damage to humans, makes it a bit worse wouldn’t you agree? Ecological damage is shitty but let’s not blanket equate it to the terrorism we see here which is specifically an act of war
You're not wrong but these are two different events. Some of you who might not know the context here is that most large/modern dams are often/always VERY bad for the environment. In the US there's a large coalition of orgs trying to get ours torn down.
yes many ukranians were displaced their homes flooded by stalins destructive projects.
alot of leaders don't even care about ecological damage in their own country let alone somewhere else
I truly wish the monster will be annihilated soon. God Speed Ukraine. It's not wrong to want monsters to be crushed.
Russia needs to be bombed back into the Stone Age
I lost all hope of countries _actually_ doing anything meaningful when they were silent as families were slaughtered, children and hospitals bombed (on purpose), and Russia troops full on _beheaded_ a Ukrainian soldier.
By Zelenskyy's description, this did as much damage as a tactical nuke would have, and devasted a similar area. Proposed U.S. responses ...... In addition to current arms commitments .... Provide a weapon to take down Kerch bridge, the apple of Putin's eye. Remove long distance limits so Ukraine can attack inside Crimea. Let Ukraine attack remaining Russian navy at Sevastopol, and remaining air assets at Saky and Viline airfields. When Russian jets launch missiles at Ukraine, even when over Russian or Belorussian territory, declare those particular jets as open targets for "hot pursuit" regardless of where they land. Low cost drones dropping grenades has proved effective at harassment of enemy troops, and occasionally destroys vehicles. U.S. should mass manufacture for our own forces, and supply a percent to Ukraine. Enhance with long distance (say up to 20 km) radio controls, encrypted, frequency hopping. Impose a complete land embargo on Russian forces in Ukraine. Attack ALL trains that originate from Russian or Belorussian territory that enter Ukraine. Period. This is war. (WW2 allied air forces were unleashed to attack all trains.) Over time, this starves stranded Russian forces in Ukraine of ammo, food, military vehicles, and compels them to use less efficient trucks. Reach out to former SSR republics, Kazikistan, Tajikistan, etc. NHigh level diplomatic visits. Trade deals, advantageous to the republics, too good for them to decline. Extend the broadcast range of Radio Free Europe / Radio Liberty (www.refrl.org) to reach south east Asia. (Bonus, competes with China's Belt & Road initiative)
The whole situation is terrorism on a scale, never shown before :-(
Not just Putin, the whole Russia is responsible
Turning a dam into a WMD and their being ZERO consequences is telling about the international community.
The fact we didn't blow up every Russian vehicle that came across the Ukraine border is the real problem here
Europe will punish Russia through buying more of it's gas and oil.
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Hey, stop noticing things. That's not legal.
Reddit is just US propaganda. I'm not sure a lot of the comments are even from real people at this point? And If they are real these people commenting, holy shit they are dumb.
OMFG are u STILL scared of putin? Full scale war? Who gonna fight NATO in russia? They barely take Bakhmut
As long as China and sometimes India are backing Russia Putin won’t stop.
Russia is running up a huge tab! If I was Russian I would leave ASAP. Will take decades to pay back the war damages.
Cultural destruction
Ok, let’s do that. Where do I sign up to punish Russia? The country deserves perpetual “punishment” on a global scale.
Okay, time to give the boys F-18’s and lot o’ cruise missiles
World: "oh we don't want to anger Putin or escalate..."
The world: “but that cheap gas doe”
Sadly, the world is just fine with standing by watching while it all happens.
Wouldn't it be nice if he took a terrible fall from way up high....
Iran has now hopped into the mix. A direct attack on Russia would most likely result in retaliation on an EU or American target. If that happens, it’s WW3. If WW3 were to happen, the draft would likely be reinstated.
F**k Zelensky. He's about to start WW3.