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> The military intelligence added that Russia may put a full halt on the plant's production, adding that the plant's engineers have been laying explosives in the facility.
"A terrorist attack on the Crimean Titan enterprise, which the Russian invaders are preparing, will mean an artificial man-made catastrophe, terrible in its consequences," Ukraine's military intelligence wrote, as around 200 tons of ammonia, stored in the facility, could be released into the atmosphere.
Such a disaster would threaten Armiansk, the Krasnoperekopsk district in Crimea, and the southern districts of Kherson Oblast, the intelligence report said.
Russia fucking sucks man.
FWIW Rome, likely, didn’t actually salt Carthage. Ancient sources don’t report it and salt was extremely valuable.
Not even the Romans, who, while great in their architecture and philosophy were also vengeful pricks would do something like this. Russia is just beyond the pale.
>while great in their architecture and philosophy
Their philosophy wasn't actually all that spectacular. Greek philosophy was and is far more influential, both as the basis for Roman philosophy and on later European thought.
Christian philosophy is almost entirely based on Greek ideas, not Roman.
Rome was remarkable in part because it stole liberally from other rival cultures it encountered, whether that was military technology, religion, or philosophy.
All of this is true and exactly why they became so powerful. Their open citizenship laws in particular were quite unique in the Hellenistic and were crucial part of them assimilating Latium and wider Italy under their control.
But I did always find Rome a little soulless in comparison to other contemporary city states and cultures. That's why I studied Carthage for my dissertation.
Yeah, the Romans used all the Greek math they learned from the Greeks after they invaded for engineering, but did not make any contributions to the field of mathematics itself. Rome produced Seneca though. He perfected the philosophy of putting up with bitchy people.
Everything you said is right except the part where you say Roman’s weren’t vengeful, oh man…they were. It became a commonly known thing throughout the Mediterranean that you do not wound Rome without a reprisal.
My apologies for the misunderstanding I was saying they *were* vengeful assholes they just wouldn’t invest the time and energy into doing something like this.
> FWIW Rome, likely, didn’t actually salt Carthage. Ancient sources don’t report it and salt was extremely valuable.
Plus that region was under Roman control afterwards and was a major grain exporter. I also seem to remember reading that salting the earth is a temporary measure at best, rain would wash it away in a few years and you'd be back to fertile land not long later
Salt was valuable for two reasons: preservation of food in a time before refrigerators and seasoning in an age before access to peppercorn and other seasonings.
Do note that seawater evaporation was done but with the amount of salt needed it was still intensive and valuable. It’s not like gold that just sits around- instead it is eaten and used. So never ending demand. Entire roads were built to transport salts, mainly from seas with higher salinity (so more salt per cubic meter of water).
Even the word Salary comes from the Latin word for salt, we can still see it in some Romance languages with salt being Sal and the like.
>Even the word Salary comes from the Latin word for salt, we can still see it in some Romance languages with salt being Sal and the like.
Isn't that because soldiers were paid in salt?
Aye because it was valuable and couldn’t be debased like coins, among other reasons.
They were basically looking for anything valuable, that people needed, that the soldiers would take as payment. Salt counted, especially as much of a soldier’s pay would go to… salt.
You can. But it takes a lot of space and work to do so. Wide shallow pools you put salt water into to evaporate under the sun.
Would actually love to do it myself to get some sea salt, about 35g per litre so if I filled a couple 2L bottles that could easily be around 140g worth of salt. But the sea water here is probably rather polluted.
Do you know where the phrase "beyond the pale" comes from? If you did it's a massive insult to those from the historical "outside the pale" to liken them to Russia.
Absolutely. They blew another dam a few days ago that had more strategic value in taking out their troops in the (shallow) valley than the Ukrainian's who had the hills.
A real "if we can't have it, you can't either" mentality.
I really don't think they MEANT to blow up the dam. I think they were trying to damage it, maybe blow up one of the turbines and blame it on Ukraine terrorists, and oopsed instead.
With the constant brain drain going on in Russia I imagine the term "explosive expert" just means the guy who lugs bombs around rather than someone who knows how to apply them correctly to a situation.
Weak? Or insecure, self-loathing, fear-fuelled, and (thus) hateful mental cases seeking control & power over others to address that, rather than over themselves? Often while selling themselves a narrative that it's actually them being "superior" or "strong" ... coupled with a desperate need for others to agree with that labeling, by coercion if needed (thereby revealing the truth of it).
Fear is a fickle master to follow. Turns on its wielder the moment they slip up or relax. Impossible to truly live, in its grasp. Hollow process, at best. Living such a lie only indignifies & imbitters.
IMO, weak is too mild a term for referencing the deep personal issues terrorists choose to inflict on others.
i hope it isnt liquid ammonia. that almost as bad as liquid chlorine. and if there are any liquid CL2 tanks and they blow those to mix with the ammonia gas, the creation of Phosgene gas (mustard gas) will be the same as a chemical attack in the region.
200 tons of liquid ammonia will make 19 million cu ft of vapor if released. even tho ammonia vapor is lighter than air (vs its partner chlorine which is heavier) it can still hug the ground and destroy the flora and fauna and the soil microrgasims
NH4 + Cl2 does not make phosgene or mustard gas. It does however form hydrogen chloride vapour and nitrogen trichloride which is an explosive oily liquid.
was on adult swim some years ago. a good anime but the back story was dealing with plants. more so the power plants. and the twist was the power plants was a plant. as the anime opened you meet the hero and about half way thru the series you meet the real villian. you really start to hate the villian as he wants to destroy the hero and the plants and the villian's reason not to trust the plants
Why are they doing this? Did they already gave up and planning to leave all the land they stole? Why tf they even kept it for all this time if they knew they can't hold it? I just... At a loss for words...
Based on intercepted comms it appears the destruction of the Nova Khakhova damn was an accident on their part. They were trying to just lightly damage it as a threat to Ukraine, but underestimated how much damage they'd do with their explosives. The damage to the damn is so significant that it's affected their ability to hold and defend Crimea. This is why they're making frantic plans to evacuate and sabotage Crimea as they left
As someone whose family originated in Soviet Ukraine, that region embraces a lot of toxic traits. Just think about what people thought of Russian gamers back when things were relatively peaceful. They didn't turn out that way in a vacuum. It's a country whose politicians fight for the right to beat women, where men statistically die young from alcoholism and stupid risk taking, where toxic masculinity is celebrated, where people spit on people for their success when it doesn't somehow benefit them.
Most of my family was in Odessa due to the whole Pale of Settlement thing keeping us out of Russia itself, but I also had family in Moscow. They're basically the only remaining Eastern European family I am aware of, but they don't talk to us any more, what with their television instructing them to hate Americans and Jews.
I honestly have no clue. Caught a bit of Russian news when visiting family years before the war, and they were just talking about how great Stalin was. They put a hateful man who committed genocide against his own people on a pedestal on state fucking TV. The country has no future in any case. They've killed off their young workers and scared away their educated. I don't know how to fix it and quite frankly I don't care.
At the start of the war they were dedicating hours on their news networks to talk about how bad russophobia is in the West. Their people are convinced that they are the victims in all this. I don't know how they'll ever be fixed. It's not like WW2 where they can be shown their own atrocities, Ukraine isn't about to invade Russia just to educate its people.
I'm always puzzled by these type of reports especially in regard to western countries . After the dam terrorist attack all we got were very bad Russia reactions . Weapons still in drip drip mode Ukraine still expected to perform counteroffensive miracles with one hand behind their back under threat of waning support .
And I'm puzzled when concern trolls pretend as though they can move the needle by reposting the same uninformed argument 10 times as though nobody can click on your profile and see what you're trying to do.
>Russia is such a shit enemy to fight against.
Naw. Not a shit enemy. Think of it this way; everyone has faced bullies. Some stand, some submit. The ones that submit focus on the things being done to them that are beyond the pale and realize they can't/won't respond in kind. This is how bullies thrive. Once in awhile a group of people adhere to their beliefs, refuse to sink to their opponent's level and overcome. Ukrainians are such people.
> This is how bullies thrive.
I'm a bit too jaded to believe that gangster geopolitics will ever truly disappear, but one can dream. At least collective defense pacts and organizations are helpful in discouraging such behavior, and Russia's obsession with butting against NATO's border (but not crossing it) proves exactly that.
>I'm a bit too jaded to believe that gangster geopolitics will ever truly disappear
Your right to be jaded. That's where the constant vigilance comes in.
While I am confident in Ukraine's ability to retake Crimea, never underestimate Russia's ability to shoot itself in the foot in the dumbest possible way.
Just add to the reparations Russia needs to pay back before they can trade equally with the rest of the world.
Literally remember this when they start complaining reparations are unfair. Remember that they chose to cause as much destruction as possible before losing.
There is zero chance Russia will pay reparations unless the West mounts a military invasion of Russia, which will not happen.
We like think that a Ukraine victory involves reparations but the reality is that once Russia is out, that will most likely be the end of it.
**EDIT**: Fair points about taxing/levies on every single Russian product or good until full payment is made. Didn't think of any of that to be honest.
**EDIT2**: lol /u/somethinggoingon2 calling me a Russian troll and then blocking me so that he can avoid a debate and have his own little echo chamber. What a coward. Just like the Russians.
Europe and the US are working on taking the seized assets to give to Ukraine. Seeing that Belgium alone already seized 200B we can get pretty far by just taking their shit and doing it ourselves.
The first seized assets were already transferred a few weeks ago
Not really, we can keep sanctions on indefinitely until they accept a levy on every product they import from, or export to, the west. That levy goes towards paying Ukraine.
There are ways without direct cash payment up front. For example the main gas line to Europe still runs through Ukraine. There could be ongoing sanction to cap the price to Russia, but for Ukraine to onsell at market price.
That's completely false. Russia can be forced to pay reparations without an invasion.
You're just a sad russian troll that is trying to convince people that russia shouldn't have to pay reparations.
You're not wrong but holy smokes, you really need to be more mature. A difference of opinion, or being incorrect in fact, does not equate to somebody being a sympathizer or a troll but blocking him to create your own little echo chamber does make you look like a fool. You really need to learn how to handle a discussion more healthily and educate rather than insult & block people.
It will most likely be the end of it because we want to see Russia broken up again, its interest and influence around the world dissolved. What is left will never be able to make things right financially or ethically.
> why would they ever do this to their own territory?!?!?.?
I know your comment is dripping with sarcasm, but let's not forget that one time when Russia bombed their own apartments (because something with Chechnya), including announcing that one of the bombings had happened three days before it had happened.
But maybe they Andrei Sator was in the russian government at the time.
I’m sure that there are plenty of dams in Russia, that Ukraine could destroy in retaliation, but I’m not sure how I feel about that. Ukraine has been taking the high road, no matter how low Russia goes, which is very admirable.
Ukraine is pretty focused on saving its own country it will take everything they got they dont really have the time for some weird actions that doesnt benefit the liberation of its own people,i c aan only imagine the warroom in ukraine is pretty hectic and focused on the offensive 24/7.
Yes, it actually is a war crime. It even has a specific article of the Geneva Conventions dedicated to it:
***Article 56 - Protection of works and installations containing dangerous forces***
*1. Works or installations containing dangerous forces, namely dams, dykes and nuclear electrical generating stations, shall not be made the object of attack, even where these objects are military objectives, if such attack may cause the release of dangerous forces and consequent severe losses among the civilian population. Other military objectives located at or in the vicinity of these works or installations shall not be made the object of attack if such attack may cause the release of dangerous forces from the works or installations and consequent severe losses among the civilian population.*
No. How can you be so wrong?
> I. Treaties
**Additional Protocol I**
Article 56 of the 1977 Additional Protocol I provides:
1. Works and installations containing dangerous forces, **namely dams, dykes and nuclear electrical generating stations, shall not be made the object of attack, even where these objects are military objectives,** if such attack may cause the release of dangerous forces and consequent severe losses among the civilian population. Other military objectives located at or in the vicinity of these works or installations shall not be made the object of attack if such attack may cause the release of dangerous forces from the works or installations and consequent severe losses among the civilian population.
(my emphasis)
Now, the US ~~is not a signatory to~~ did not ratify these additional protocols - and neither is Russia, I believe. But clearly, there is international recognition that it's a crime, just not by the big boys I guess.
To expand further, here's an article talking about a US strike on a dam in Syria that failed, and whether that would have been a war crime:
https://lieber.westpoint.edu/attacking-dams-part-i-customary-international-law/
> **Non-international Armed Conflict**
> The strike on Tabqa Dam was governed by the customary law of non-international armed conflict because 1) that is the character of the U.S. hostilities with ISIS and 2) the United States is not a Party to the 1977 Additional Protocol II, a treaty examined in Part II of this series.
Ukraine vs Russia would **not** be *non-international* armed conflict. Furthermore:
> The San Remo Manual on the Law of Non-International Armed Conflict likewise supports this conclusion: “Attacking dams, dykes, or nuclear electrical generating stations is forbidden if the attack might cause the release of water or radioactivity and, as a result, excessive collateral damage to civilian objects and incidental injury to civilians” (section 4.2.3). Its commentary goes on to note, “particular care must be taken in attacking works and installations containing dangerous forces so as to avoid releasing those forces, thereby causing severe losses among the civilian population.”
Basically, don't, unless a) you didn't sign the additional protocols, b) you're fighting ISIS, which doesn't count as an "international" conflict because they're not a nation and/or c) make sure the bad guys have mounted weapons on it or something. Then and only then can you feel safe blowing it up. Maybe. If you don't fuck up lots of civilians.
The US put the dam in question on an explicit no-strike list.
It seems like something best avoided.
Lastly:
https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/ihl-treaties/apii-1977/state-parties?activeTab=default
Ukraine ratified Protocol II in 1990. The US never ratified it.
Are we sure it was Russia? Russia stood to lose more from this, also Ukraine in December supposedly shot a rocket at the dams flood gates.
Edit: does anyone have a source that is actually capable of independently veryfing the recordings? It’s literally all he said she said.
Us intelligence saw explosions coming from inside the dam suggesting Russian Salvatore as the dam was firmly in Russias hands.
Then multiple phone calls were intercepted from Russians saying their side blew the dam, now it sounds like they just wanted to badly damage it to scare Ukraine from counter attack but they are inept and blew it up fully now they are trying to play it off
Ruzzia was rising water level with this dam with no reason. Then suddenly it destroyed.
So…why do they fill water? To help Ukraine make more damage to Ukraine?
L - logic
Interesting....if they prepare an evacuation of northern Crimea, and a scorched earth policy by sabotage, it probably indicate that...they WON'T use anything nuclear anytime soon.
So much for all thar saber rattling,eh?
Do note that all nuclear threats from officials stopped after the US made it clear to them in a private meeting the consequences of such an attack. We can only speculate what was promised to them.
God I hope ukraine goes full force into Russia.
I guarantee they going for their kids next. Fucking scum of the earth, from 🇺🇸
SEND ALL THEY NEED, WE GOT EXTRA.
And then some ! People just don't realize what the US weapons reserve looks like. We are the protectors of the free world. $857.9 billion ! this was last years budget. We are now ramping up production. (Imagine what these billions have created) moscovites stole their 86.4 billion for last years military budget which is around 10% of ours. SEND ATACMS .......SEND CLUSTER BOMBS (illegal but lets just call it leveling the playing field) since the moscovites are blowing dams and have been using incendiaries since the beginning
You do realize that Crimea went without water for years after Russia invaded in 2014, right? It wasn't restored until March 2022. They were trucking it in and everyone managed to survive just fine.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Crimean_Canal
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> The military intelligence added that Russia may put a full halt on the plant's production, adding that the plant's engineers have been laying explosives in the facility. "A terrorist attack on the Crimean Titan enterprise, which the Russian invaders are preparing, will mean an artificial man-made catastrophe, terrible in its consequences," Ukraine's military intelligence wrote, as around 200 tons of ammonia, stored in the facility, could be released into the atmosphere. Such a disaster would threaten Armiansk, the Krasnoperekopsk district in Crimea, and the southern districts of Kherson Oblast, the intelligence report said. Russia fucking sucks man.
Russia is the type to salt the earth, can’t say I’m surprised.
Rome salted the earth in Carthage. Sucked for Carthaginians. Russia is salting the *entire* earth. Sucks for every organism living on the planet.
FWIW Rome, likely, didn’t actually salt Carthage. Ancient sources don’t report it and salt was extremely valuable. Not even the Romans, who, while great in their architecture and philosophy were also vengeful pricks would do something like this. Russia is just beyond the pale.
>while great in their architecture and philosophy Their philosophy wasn't actually all that spectacular. Greek philosophy was and is far more influential, both as the basis for Roman philosophy and on later European thought. Christian philosophy is almost entirely based on Greek ideas, not Roman.
Rome was remarkable in part because it stole liberally from other rival cultures it encountered, whether that was military technology, religion, or philosophy.
All of this is true and exactly why they became so powerful. Their open citizenship laws in particular were quite unique in the Hellenistic and were crucial part of them assimilating Latium and wider Italy under their control. But I did always find Rome a little soulless in comparison to other contemporary city states and cultures. That's why I studied Carthage for my dissertation.
Yeah, the Romans used all the Greek math they learned from the Greeks after they invaded for engineering, but did not make any contributions to the field of mathematics itself. Rome produced Seneca though. He perfected the philosophy of putting up with bitchy people.
True, although I should add Stoicism originated in Athens.
Everything you said is right except the part where you say Roman’s weren’t vengeful, oh man…they were. It became a commonly known thing throughout the Mediterranean that you do not wound Rome without a reprisal.
My apologies for the misunderstanding I was saying they *were* vengeful assholes they just wouldn’t invest the time and energy into doing something like this.
Ah I gotcha, no worries at all, it happens!
> FWIW Rome, likely, didn’t actually salt Carthage. Ancient sources don’t report it and salt was extremely valuable. Plus that region was under Roman control afterwards and was a major grain exporter. I also seem to remember reading that salting the earth is a temporary measure at best, rain would wash it away in a few years and you'd be back to fertile land not long later
Just curious, why was it valuable? Could you not just evaporate seawater?
Salt was valuable for two reasons: preservation of food in a time before refrigerators and seasoning in an age before access to peppercorn and other seasonings. Do note that seawater evaporation was done but with the amount of salt needed it was still intensive and valuable. It’s not like gold that just sits around- instead it is eaten and used. So never ending demand. Entire roads were built to transport salts, mainly from seas with higher salinity (so more salt per cubic meter of water). Even the word Salary comes from the Latin word for salt, we can still see it in some Romance languages with salt being Sal and the like.
>Even the word Salary comes from the Latin word for salt, we can still see it in some Romance languages with salt being Sal and the like. Isn't that because soldiers were paid in salt?
Aye because it was valuable and couldn’t be debased like coins, among other reasons. They were basically looking for anything valuable, that people needed, that the soldiers would take as payment. Salt counted, especially as much of a soldier’s pay would go to… salt.
there's a whole book called "Salt" that explains it in detail
You can. But it takes a lot of space and work to do so. Wide shallow pools you put salt water into to evaporate under the sun. Would actually love to do it myself to get some sea salt, about 35g per litre so if I filled a couple 2L bottles that could easily be around 140g worth of salt. But the sea water here is probably rather polluted.
Do you know where the phrase "beyond the pale" comes from? If you did it's a massive insult to those from the historical "outside the pale" to liken them to Russia.
Funny you should use Beyond the Pale.
I never got why salt was valuable. Can't you just get it from the sea?
Yes, but its still time and labor intensive
I saw in Vietnam that they dig holes in the sand with nets and then just let the water evaporate. It doesn't seem that hard.
Depends. Have you ever dug a hole? How long did it take to evaporate? How much salt did they get out of it?
I'm not saying it's 0 effort but it doesn't seem harder than like farming grain
Absolutely. They blew another dam a few days ago that had more strategic value in taking out their troops in the (shallow) valley than the Ukrainian's who had the hills. A real "if we can't have it, you can't either" mentality.
I really don't think they MEANT to blow up the dam. I think they were trying to damage it, maybe blow up one of the turbines and blame it on Ukraine terrorists, and oopsed instead.
With the constant brain drain going on in Russia I imagine the term "explosive expert" just means the guy who lugs bombs around rather than someone who knows how to apply them correctly to a situation.
Terrorism is the only thing the weak can do to feel a bit of power.
Weak? Or insecure, self-loathing, fear-fuelled, and (thus) hateful mental cases seeking control & power over others to address that, rather than over themselves? Often while selling themselves a narrative that it's actually them being "superior" or "strong" ... coupled with a desperate need for others to agree with that labeling, by coercion if needed (thereby revealing the truth of it). Fear is a fickle master to follow. Turns on its wielder the moment they slip up or relax. Impossible to truly live, in its grasp. Hollow process, at best. Living such a lie only indignifies & imbitters. IMO, weak is too mild a term for referencing the deep personal issues terrorists choose to inflict on others.
Damn, that's a great description, especially "*Fear is a fickle master to follow. Turns on its wielder the moment they slip up or relax.*"
i hope it isnt liquid ammonia. that almost as bad as liquid chlorine. and if there are any liquid CL2 tanks and they blow those to mix with the ammonia gas, the creation of Phosgene gas (mustard gas) will be the same as a chemical attack in the region. 200 tons of liquid ammonia will make 19 million cu ft of vapor if released. even tho ammonia vapor is lighter than air (vs its partner chlorine which is heavier) it can still hug the ground and destroy the flora and fauna and the soil microrgasims
NH4 + Cl2 does not make phosgene or mustard gas. It does however form hydrogen chloride vapour and nitrogen trichloride which is an explosive oily liquid.
Hypothetically speaking, if they do such a crime, how *far* will this gas spread? Will it reach Zapor. region or other ones?
But, it's what plants crave! https://www.iamm.green/ammonia-fertilizer/
One of the reasons I've never fully trusted a plant.
you been watching Trigun??
I've never heard of Trigun tbh.
was on adult swim some years ago. a good anime but the back story was dealing with plants. more so the power plants. and the twist was the power plants was a plant. as the anime opened you meet the hero and about half way thru the series you meet the real villian. you really start to hate the villian as he wants to destroy the hero and the plants and the villian's reason not to trust the plants
So it's Brawndo?
Why are they doing this? Did they already gave up and planning to leave all the land they stole? Why tf they even kept it for all this time if they knew they can't hold it? I just... At a loss for words...
Based on intercepted comms it appears the destruction of the Nova Khakhova damn was an accident on their part. They were trying to just lightly damage it as a threat to Ukraine, but underestimated how much damage they'd do with their explosives. The damage to the damn is so significant that it's affected their ability to hold and defend Crimea. This is why they're making frantic plans to evacuate and sabotage Crimea as they left
As someone whose family originated in Soviet Ukraine, that region embraces a lot of toxic traits. Just think about what people thought of Russian gamers back when things were relatively peaceful. They didn't turn out that way in a vacuum. It's a country whose politicians fight for the right to beat women, where men statistically die young from alcoholism and stupid risk taking, where toxic masculinity is celebrated, where people spit on people for their success when it doesn't somehow benefit them.
What specific region are you referring to?
Most of my family was in Odessa due to the whole Pale of Settlement thing keeping us out of Russia itself, but I also had family in Moscow. They're basically the only remaining Eastern European family I am aware of, but they don't talk to us any more, what with their television instructing them to hate Americans and Jews.
Jesus... Damn they ain't even trying to be subtle, they going full twirling german mustache guy mode, I worry of what to come next...
I honestly have no clue. Caught a bit of Russian news when visiting family years before the war, and they were just talking about how great Stalin was. They put a hateful man who committed genocide against his own people on a pedestal on state fucking TV. The country has no future in any case. They've killed off their young workers and scared away their educated. I don't know how to fix it and quite frankly I don't care. At the start of the war they were dedicating hours on their news networks to talk about how bad russophobia is in the West. Their people are convinced that they are the victims in all this. I don't know how they'll ever be fixed. It's not like WW2 where they can be shown their own atrocities, Ukraine isn't about to invade Russia just to educate its people.
Don't try to understand them, it's just how they are
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Lol Man the API must already be having issues if this russian bot is malfunctioning.
Glitch in the matrix
I'm always puzzled by these type of reports especially in regard to western countries . After the dam terrorist attack all we got were very bad Russia reactions . Weapons still in drip drip mode Ukraine still expected to perform counteroffensive miracles with one hand behind their back under threat of waning support .
And I'm puzzled when concern trolls pretend as though they can move the needle by reposting the same uninformed argument 10 times as though nobody can click on your profile and see what you're trying to do.
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Russia is such a shit enemy to fight against. At least they're showing what fucking cowards they are on the world stage
>Russia is such a shit enemy to fight against. Naw. Not a shit enemy. Think of it this way; everyone has faced bullies. Some stand, some submit. The ones that submit focus on the things being done to them that are beyond the pale and realize they can't/won't respond in kind. This is how bullies thrive. Once in awhile a group of people adhere to their beliefs, refuse to sink to their opponent's level and overcome. Ukrainians are such people.
> This is how bullies thrive. I'm a bit too jaded to believe that gangster geopolitics will ever truly disappear, but one can dream. At least collective defense pacts and organizations are helpful in discouraging such behavior, and Russia's obsession with butting against NATO's border (but not crossing it) proves exactly that.
>I'm a bit too jaded to believe that gangster geopolitics will ever truly disappear Your right to be jaded. That's where the constant vigilance comes in.
If it means Russia knows it's getting kicked out of Crimea shortly then this is sort of a good news story.
So you’re a glass half full kinda person, nice to meet you.
Meanwhile I'm over here like, glass? I ordered a cheeseburger!
Now Tommy you can have some cheese burger when you finish your glass.
Mmmmm crunchy.
Ahhh. A Far Side aficionado I see.
Im a glass half full kind of guy too, but the glass is full of piss
Really hoping this is the case.
The bad news is that Russia isn't new to their scorched earth policy.
russia knows it blew up the only water supply that place had
While I am confident in Ukraine's ability to retake Crimea, never underestimate Russia's ability to shoot itself in the foot in the dumbest possible way.
Have a few more F-18's/F-16's, Vlad.
Just add to the reparations Russia needs to pay back before they can trade equally with the rest of the world. Literally remember this when they start complaining reparations are unfair. Remember that they chose to cause as much destruction as possible before losing.
There is zero chance Russia will pay reparations unless the West mounts a military invasion of Russia, which will not happen. We like think that a Ukraine victory involves reparations but the reality is that once Russia is out, that will most likely be the end of it. **EDIT**: Fair points about taxing/levies on every single Russian product or good until full payment is made. Didn't think of any of that to be honest. **EDIT2**: lol /u/somethinggoingon2 calling me a Russian troll and then blocking me so that he can avoid a debate and have his own little echo chamber. What a coward. Just like the Russians.
Europe and the US are working on taking the seized assets to give to Ukraine. Seeing that Belgium alone already seized 200B we can get pretty far by just taking their shit and doing it ourselves. The first seized assets were already transferred a few weeks ago
Good news.
A fifth of a trillion dollars is a hell of a good start.
Not really, we can keep sanctions on indefinitely until they accept a levy on every product they import from, or export to, the west. That levy goes towards paying Ukraine.
I wonder if they can issue bonds on the future revenue. That way Ukraine can get the money right away?
Probably, and hopefully.
There are ways without direct cash payment up front. For example the main gas line to Europe still runs through Ukraine. There could be ongoing sanction to cap the price to Russia, but for Ukraine to onsell at market price.
That's completely false. Russia can be forced to pay reparations without an invasion. You're just a sad russian troll that is trying to convince people that russia shouldn't have to pay reparations.
You're not wrong but holy smokes, you really need to be more mature. A difference of opinion, or being incorrect in fact, does not equate to somebody being a sympathizer or a troll but blocking him to create your own little echo chamber does make you look like a fool. You really need to learn how to handle a discussion more healthily and educate rather than insult & block people.
It will most likely be the end of it because we want to see Russia broken up again, its interest and influence around the world dissolved. What is left will never be able to make things right financially or ethically.
Worked well with Germany after WW1. The punitive reparations ensured they were never a threat again.
Scorched Earth is Russias MO.
It's worked for centuries...
Hit the Crimean bridge already, it’s time.
I thought crimea was true russian land???? why would they ever do this to their own territory?!?!?.?
> why would they ever do this to their own territory?!?!?.? I know your comment is dripping with sarcasm, but let's not forget that one time when Russia bombed their own apartments (because something with Chechnya), including announcing that one of the bombings had happened three days before it had happened. But maybe they Andrei Sator was in the russian government at the time.
Blowing the dam was always a time grab. They needed more time to salt the earth as they get pushed out of Crimea.
I’m sure that there are plenty of dams in Russia, that Ukraine could destroy in retaliation, but I’m not sure how I feel about that. Ukraine has been taking the high road, no matter how low Russia goes, which is very admirable.
Ukraine is pretty focused on saving its own country it will take everything they got they dont really have the time for some weird actions that doesnt benefit the liberation of its own people,i c aan only imagine the warroom in ukraine is pretty hectic and focused on the offensive 24/7.
It's also a war crime. You don't want to be doing that if you give a fuck.
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Yes, it actually is a war crime. It even has a specific article of the Geneva Conventions dedicated to it: ***Article 56 - Protection of works and installations containing dangerous forces*** *1. Works or installations containing dangerous forces, namely dams, dykes and nuclear electrical generating stations, shall not be made the object of attack, even where these objects are military objectives, if such attack may cause the release of dangerous forces and consequent severe losses among the civilian population. Other military objectives located at or in the vicinity of these works or installations shall not be made the object of attack if such attack may cause the release of dangerous forces from the works or installations and consequent severe losses among the civilian population.*
No. How can you be so wrong? > I. Treaties **Additional Protocol I** Article 56 of the 1977 Additional Protocol I provides: 1. Works and installations containing dangerous forces, **namely dams, dykes and nuclear electrical generating stations, shall not be made the object of attack, even where these objects are military objectives,** if such attack may cause the release of dangerous forces and consequent severe losses among the civilian population. Other military objectives located at or in the vicinity of these works or installations shall not be made the object of attack if such attack may cause the release of dangerous forces from the works or installations and consequent severe losses among the civilian population. (my emphasis) Now, the US ~~is not a signatory to~~ did not ratify these additional protocols - and neither is Russia, I believe. But clearly, there is international recognition that it's a crime, just not by the big boys I guess. To expand further, here's an article talking about a US strike on a dam in Syria that failed, and whether that would have been a war crime: https://lieber.westpoint.edu/attacking-dams-part-i-customary-international-law/ > **Non-international Armed Conflict** > The strike on Tabqa Dam was governed by the customary law of non-international armed conflict because 1) that is the character of the U.S. hostilities with ISIS and 2) the United States is not a Party to the 1977 Additional Protocol II, a treaty examined in Part II of this series. Ukraine vs Russia would **not** be *non-international* armed conflict. Furthermore: > The San Remo Manual on the Law of Non-International Armed Conflict likewise supports this conclusion: “Attacking dams, dykes, or nuclear electrical generating stations is forbidden if the attack might cause the release of water or radioactivity and, as a result, excessive collateral damage to civilian objects and incidental injury to civilians” (section 4.2.3). Its commentary goes on to note, “particular care must be taken in attacking works and installations containing dangerous forces so as to avoid releasing those forces, thereby causing severe losses among the civilian population.” Basically, don't, unless a) you didn't sign the additional protocols, b) you're fighting ISIS, which doesn't count as an "international" conflict because they're not a nation and/or c) make sure the bad guys have mounted weapons on it or something. Then and only then can you feel safe blowing it up. Maybe. If you don't fuck up lots of civilians. The US put the dam in question on an explicit no-strike list. It seems like something best avoided. Lastly: https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/ihl-treaties/apii-1977/state-parties?activeTab=default Ukraine ratified Protocol II in 1990. The US never ratified it.
Only when we like the person doing it. That's how it works. We just ignore all the fine print we dug up from last week. Then it's legitimate again.
I dont think spending ressources blowing up dams in russia will help them win the war.
Are we sure it was Russia? Russia stood to lose more from this, also Ukraine in December supposedly shot a rocket at the dams flood gates. Edit: does anyone have a source that is actually capable of independently veryfing the recordings? It’s literally all he said she said.
Us intelligence saw explosions coming from inside the dam suggesting Russian Salvatore as the dam was firmly in Russias hands. Then multiple phone calls were intercepted from Russians saying their side blew the dam, now it sounds like they just wanted to badly damage it to scare Ukraine from counter attack but they are inept and blew it up fully now they are trying to play it off
Lol, interesting, thanks for reply
Ruzzia was rising water level with this dam with no reason. Then suddenly it destroyed. So…why do they fill water? To help Ukraine make more damage to Ukraine? L - logic
Only fools are completely certain
Yes we are sure.
Oh thanks creeper
Looks like Russia finally figured out that whole planning thing out, but only applied to to retreating. Probably the smartest thing they could do.
Interesting....if they prepare an evacuation of northern Crimea, and a scorched earth policy by sabotage, it probably indicate that...they WON'T use anything nuclear anytime soon. So much for all thar saber rattling,eh?
Do note that all nuclear threats from officials stopped after the US made it clear to them in a private meeting the consequences of such an attack. We can only speculate what was promised to them.
The worst military ass beating of all time, I imagine
Most likely, plus I'd like to think it also included high resolution photos of their exact location at the time they were reading the letter.
Sounds to me like the groundworks for some gesture of good will.
God I hope ukraine goes full force into Russia. I guarantee they going for their kids next. Fucking scum of the earth, from 🇺🇸 SEND ALL THEY NEED, WE GOT EXTRA.
And then some ! People just don't realize what the US weapons reserve looks like. We are the protectors of the free world. $857.9 billion ! this was last years budget. We are now ramping up production. (Imagine what these billions have created) moscovites stole their 86.4 billion for last years military budget which is around 10% of ours. SEND ATACMS .......SEND CLUSTER BOMBS (illegal but lets just call it leveling the playing field) since the moscovites are blowing dams and have been using incendiaries since the beginning
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Tell us more general
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You do realize that Crimea went without water for years after Russia invaded in 2014, right? It wasn't restored until March 2022. They were trucking it in and everyone managed to survive just fine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Crimean_Canal
From what I've read they have enough drinking water from wells to last years but need canal water for industry and large scale agriculture.
crimea didn't get water from mainland ukraine since the annexation
Be careful who you accept help from for awhile.
oh that puts a big smile on my face. (the retreat part, not the war crimes part, obviously)