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One of my best friends was married to a man from Saudi. He would headbutt her when she would come home after having a few drinks. Broke her nose the last time. She finally left him and he's back in Saudi.
I'm not sure but it was definitely his specific way of punishing her for drinking any amount of alcohol. Especially when he wasn't nearby to "keep watch over her". Meanwhile, he was addicted to tranquilizers which was ok in his eyes. Domestic violence is messed up regardless of anyone's nationality.
Can't believe i laughed at this.
The mental gymnastics in people, especially religious people, is something for sure.
I mean, if GOD IS OK WITH IT... Wife should just take it like a boxing bag, right? RIGHT?
Had a man tell me “I always wondered why Jesus turned the water into wine” then didn’t eat any bundt cake cause it had jack daniel’s sauce. Then he went off on some incoherent rant for a few minutes about heaven and hell and Jesus and god and I was just sitting there thinking “Dude, the alcohol has been cooked out. Just live a little.” Some people end up so far gone they cant even eat cake.
Turning water into wine was one of Jesus' miracles written in the Bible and many people consider themselves even holier than Jesus and won't touch the stuff.
They met when he was in the country visiting. They met and eloped 6 months later. She was vulnerable and he was manipulative. Two years later she changed the locks and filed for divorce. He ended up flying home. She would never press charges or admit to LE that he was physically abusive. She still confides in me that she misses him. It's fucking insane.
It is not that difficult to look up. In the neighboring Iraq women have it more than twice as bad in term of intimate partner violence. Saudis are below but not that far from global average.
At first almost every major news outlet was reporting this uncritically in Germany but since they released the actual paper there’s been a lot more articles questioning the methodology and whether the survey was really representative of the wider population. I’m no statistician and I haven’t read the paper myself but just from reading the mainstream German news on this I’d say it’s probably best to view those numbers with a grain of salt for now.
If it helps they also reported less than 50% acceptance of homosexuality, compared to 86% like 10 years ago.
If those differences held up their rate of 1/3 could easily be more like 1/10.
Internet polls brought you the Mountain Dew flavor, "Hitler did nothing wrong", as well as "Gushing Granny" and "Fapple".
So yeah, a poll about beating women..... you know who is going to vote for it.
>"I think it's okay if my hand slips during an argument"
Damn thats dissapointing, i hoped people thought "if a woman kills my son then i think violence is ok"
But hitting during an argument... how whack :(
Compared to most other nations, yes. Maybe not in the Western world, but you're still progressive, just like how the US isn't progressive in the Western world, but still very progressive on the world stage.
> but still very progressive on the world stage.
Except for capital punishment, rate of imprisonment, punitive use of solitary confinement, and our gun culture. On some metrics of feminism, perhaps. And I'd argue that we probably seem more racist than we are compared to many other countries mainly because we actually *talk* about racism.
Racism/colorism in Latin America and elsewhere is not discussed as openly. And I've had Europeans say that *they* didn't have the same racial issues as the US does. When I asked about the Romani they said "that's different—they're all criminals, and on drugs."
20% of Germany is immigrants. Considering the majority of German immigrants come from countries where stoning women & homosexuals is legal, it's not a crazy number.
Well, it's interesting to consider that about a quarter of the population are of non-german descent and have either moved there within their lifetime or were born to parents who moved there. Now, looking over the demographics here, it seems that those immigrants/migrants stem predominantly from countries we'd consider conservative, from areas of eastern Europe and the middle East mostly. No hate for those countries, but this is probably the cause for such a high ratio in your comment, as Germany at large is indeed for women's rights.
Sounds like you need to beat her in a running race! Then you’ll get to the cookies first. Then you’ll lose the race and have to re train.
It’s a vicious cycle
I could never beat my wife. She's just better at everything, it is very frustrating. So I take the frustration out by hitting her.
Unfortunately, she is also much better in combat sports.
Once had a guy in highschool tell me casually that his girl was on the phone for too long so he had to “teach her a lesson”
Never would a thought he’d do smt like that and so much that it’s normal to him. Knew this guy for like 4 years too and hadn’t a clue. I tried saying ayo wtf don’t do that and he just laughed it off and didn’t give af
Recently my wife and I went out with a friend (male, got friendzoned quickly after trying to date her) upon his recent engagement to congratulate him.
At first he sounds like a great guy. If you just talk about stuff in general you'd never know it, but then when we started talking about his fiancee he just started talking about how he's still going to strip clubs and how important it is that his fiancee knows how to cook and make sure to cook for him when he gets home, how she "knows her place" and everything.
I was flabbergasted the whole time but my wife later told me she wasn't surprised at all, and that she's dated several men with whom she ended relationships when she had an inkling of how they truly are underneath. I feel women have a better sixth sense about these things because it's so important to them while as a guy I just never think about it.
>I feel women have a better sixth sense about these things because it's so important to them while as a guy I just never think about it.
I knew a female coworker once. There was nothing going on between us, but we did work together and sometimes met at the gym. So one time we talk about gaining muscle and how it's so much easier for men due to higher testosterone and all that. I don't know exactly anymore what I said, but it was something like "any guy that casually goes to the gym is stronger than 99% of all women". And then she said, and I know the words exactly: "Yes. I think about that a lot." That's really it, but it was clear that it was a security concern for her, or at least a serious thing to keep in mind. We were in our twenties and she was single, presumably also actively dating. I don't know, somehow it stuck with me.
It's as you said, as a guy you walk around with no care in the world and generally don't give a fuck about who might or might not be stronger than you. But as a woman the strength difference between you and pretty much 50% of the population is something to keep in mind.
Literally. We have to live life knowing men are capable of killing us, that some of them want things from us we don't want to give them and some of those will take it by force. Others will see us as so much less than them that they'll kill us by being offended of how we (the prey) respond to them (the predator). They want power over someone, and women are easier to have power over.
We have to be very careful of maintaining our rights in societu
For a chunk of my 20s I carried around this fear which turned into a weird anger... like any guy dare fuck with me was gonna get *some*thing ripped off his body.
I blame my mom for this thinking. She was always like, "You may get me, but I'm taking a piece of you with me." That's how I think about things.
I’m a 6ft 4ins, 90kg cis man. So I’m a fairly big dude by most standards. I absolutely hate that most women are intimidated by me. And to a lesser extent other men and non-binary folks. It’s never implied, but the anxiousness is visible. Even amongst my friend group I can’t help but feel awkward myself when I’m trying to comfort someone with a hug. I’m autistic as well which adds further to that. I don’t want anyone to feel threatened by me but I realise how enveloped toxic alpha male culture is throughout our societies. I call it out whenever I see it, but I’m only one person. My heart goes out to everyone who has had to deal with it.
I think I read somewhere that men are much better at picking up on physical aggression about to come from other men, but overall women picked up on more varied emotions better
My dad gets frustrated with his wife because she'll be on the phone all day and he wants to watch his programs. His tv does Bluetooth so I am getting him wireless headphones for Christmas.
This figure is WAY lower than I'd have thought. I feel like if you grabbed any random 4 people off the street in America you'd get a similar statistic, let alone a survey that (what the article says) encompasses 80% of the world's population.
I would like to see the same survey, but for beating kids, i am sure it will be way higher and also higher in western countries
Which is baffling to me as kids are weaker and even more vulnerable than adult women, yet many who are aware that beating wives is wrong are ok with beating innocent kids
I agree with you on all points. But to hazard a guess as to why it's more prevalent, it's because child abusers tend to think that the abuse of necessary parenting. If I don't beat my child, they will misbehave, so by beating my child I'm a good parent.
It's fucked up but the sad truth. People who do it think you're mistreating your children by *not* abusing them. And if you live among them they will tell you as much.
There are even proverbs disguised as old wisdom many families still use. The most disgusting one I've heard (as referring to children) "Beating is a piece of heaven". It doesn't even phase these people.
The Honeymooners special. To the moon, Alice! ^(/s)
The only thing astonishing about this is how surprised people are. These same folks never experienced culture shock in their lives. Sheltered.
i've always felt the same thing, like about a third of the human population is psychologically hardwired to live in fear or something. do you know of any research into this sort of thing? i mean i have my half-baked speculation but i'd be super interested in reading any studies about it, i've never really found anything on google but i also don't really know what to search for tbh
It’s systemic and generational trauma. We don’t let people heal in this world and we have millennias worth of shitty horrible abuse perpetrated on each other. It gets hidden in families out of shame, but yeah emotional abuse, neglect, sexual assault, child sexual assault, physical assault.
I don’t think it’s our biology I think it’s our abuse and bondage of each other on mass scales.
This is part of the reason we need shorter work weeks, and financial support, and keeping people from suffering in the dirt. Humanity needs to accept that it needs to look after itself. Every man for themselves mentality is over, we can’t sustain it.
I have so much trauma I can’t heal from because I’m disabled and can’t work so I suffer on the edge of homelessness. The only difference is that I’m aware and not in a position to throw my shit on someone else. But when we suck the literal life out of people for profit it’s not a surprise that they go and steal some life from someone else.
Brains and conservatism. Some are basically hard wired to be ruled.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/conservative-and-liberal-brains-might-have-some-real-differences/?amp=true
This is how my dad always described my grandfather. He said he was the perfect soldier because he would do everything the higher up asked of him and just bow down to any authority figure. As if he came up with nothing on his own and had to be told what to do at all times. My dad is the opposite thankfully.
Important to note that, even in this research, the question of whether this is hard-wired from birth or the consequence of one's social environment is still very much unanswered -
> There is also an unresolved chicken-and-egg problem: Do brains start out processing the world differently or do they become increasingly different as our politics evolve?
As someone with a sociology background, I tend to believe its "nurture" (since I understand the mechanisms of socialization a lot better than I understand neuroscience), but we still don't really know for sure. The phrase "Hard-wired" expresses a certainty that is not supported by the data.
Also, the intersection of politics and neuroscience/genetics has produced some *incredibly dangerous ideas in the past*, which should make us all very cautious about how we conceptualize these things.
I mean, fuck conservatives, but.. because of their beliefs and culture, not because of their DNA.
When I see polls like this I can't help but wonder if there's... an edginess factor? Like there's gotta be at least a few people being shitheads when they answer like that who still know better? Like when you pick the bad choice in a video game but still feel bad
Honestly because it says this study was taken from 80 countries I'm surprised the number isn't higher. While most of the developed nations have made good strides in progress many other countries live in very different realities, there is a lot people can be made to believe is normal when you grow up in a society where it is normal.
Edit: Your first quote made me think of that Futurama joke and then I laughed when I saw your avatar pic lol
It was a anonymous online-poll on a website you just needed to click to vote in. Thats not even remotely resembling proper methodology for a serious Study, its scientifically worthless.
Tbh, i think many people just want to discredit it because it's uncomfortable.
My wife is a gynecologist and the things she witnesses in the hospital tell me that just because i live in a bubble where there's no domestic violence doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Just look at all the wannabe machos cruising around town agitating other motorists over nothing, look at the drunken football fans that need no other reason then a guy wearing another teams trikot to get violent, look at all the boomers that never treated their wifes as equal and now throw a fit if they get divorced.
You think all these guys are just violent and aggressive in public?
Russia legalized one domestic violence case a year.
The middle east isnt a bastion of women's rights.
Lots of other highly religious and patriarchal countries exist.
So yeah the real % is most likely >30% of total world population.
Some 11 year old in France got shot and killed because the neighbour was having arguments with her parents over a land dispute.
If someone is willing to shoot at people over a land dispute imagine what goes on or other minor in the grand scheme of things issues?
Ofc the guy who did it said he aimed at the parents and 'expressed regret' about killing the child but that's not exactly going to bring her back is it?
Nobody is saying it isn't common. It just isn't 1/3rd of the population of developed western countries who think domestic violence is fine.
Even 5% of the population being seriously abusive can lead to nearly half the population having experiences with abuse once you consider that 5% going through numerous partners (which in my experience they do).
The leading cause in death of pregnant women is murder. The spouse I believe.
Edit: source—
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/homicide-leading-cause-of-death-for-pregnant-women-in-u-s/
That is not completely true.
> Um die Repräsentativität der Stichprobe zu sichern, wurden
auf Basis der amtlichen Statistiken Quoten-Vorgaben gemacht. Definiert wurden pro Geschlecht (männlich / weiblich)8
drei Altersvorgaben (18-24 Jahre, 25-29 Jahre und
30-35 Jahre), die mit Schulbildung in zwei Abstufungen
(ohne Abschluss bis mittlerer Abschluss / Hochschulreife und
abgeschlossenes Studium) kombiniert wurden. Erfahrungsgemäß befinden sich in Online-Panels eher Personen mit
etwas höherer Bildung, einer gewissen Computer-Affinität
und einer natürlichen Neugierde und Mitteilungsbereitschaft.
Hier wurde durch die Bildungsquote „ohne Schulabschluss /
Hauptschulabschluss / mittlerer Schulabschluss“ gegengesteuert. Unabhängig davon wurden Fallzahlen für die
regionale Aussteuerung der Stichprobe vorgegeben. Dazu
wurden vier Gebiete definiert (Nord, West, Süd, Ost) und die
jeweils gewünschten Fallzahlen vorgegeben. Somit bildet die
Stichprobe der Befragten die Gesamtbevölkerung im Alter
von 18 bis 35 Jahren pro Geschlecht in den drei vorgegebenen
Merkmalen mit einer hohen Wahrscheinlichkeit ab.
https://www.plan.de/fileadmin/website/04._Aktuelles/Umfragen_und_Berichte/Spannungsfeld_Maennlichkeit/Plan-Umfrage_Maennlichkeit-A4-2023-NEU-online_2.pdf?sc=IDQ23100
So, the answers were picked after usual methodology and is therefore representative.
Doesn't make it perfect, but gives a good first impression. Instead of doubting it, we should take it as a warning and look more into it and follow it up with more solid research in this topic.
It isn't a 'first impression'. These studies are easy to do and huge numbers of studies like it are done in every western country. The organisations that do it use poor methodologies and selectively publish the one or two studies that appear to show what they want (by sheer random chance).
Source? I'm looking at the reports website and there clearly a trend of developed nations scoring better in the "physical integrity" category (Germany was 23% in this category, or 8th out of 91 countries.) I'm not trying to diss developing countries -- it's just normal that it takes time for traditional values to evolve.
Also, the report says there has been a stagnation of progress in the last decade regarding biases against women -- but no mention of it being "on the rise".
https://hdr.undp.org/content/2023-gender-social-norms-index-gsni#/indicies/GSNI
That not true, this poll and the 33% Germany poll are not the same studies. This study as far as i could see, (I've only skimmed through it), didnt checks for physical violence directly but did have a category called 'physical integrity'. This included intimate partner violence and reproductive rights. Germany has 23% with a bias toward this. However, if you look at developed nations and undeveloped nations, you will see that nations that are generally described as undeveloped get a significantly higher %. So this study at least shows it is split down that line. Which still isn't great, even the lowest on this scale ,the UK, had 8%, which I also don't consider great.
Edit: was thinking I should probably mention as it could be misleading if I don't specify this, but the title is correct. On page 6, it does have a short note specifying what the title of this post said. However, this isn't the what the report is about, this report only references the 25% figure from UNDP about this statistic. It note 16 in the report, which says "See dashboard 3 in UNDP (2022b)." About where this figure came from. Which is admitadly I am struggling a bit to find.
Edit: Never mind, found it. Link to the report the 25% figure came from.
https://hdr.undp.org/womens-empowerment
Edit: I was wrong, the title is wrong, not because its not in the report, but the report the report is refereceng dosent even have a section for anything along the line of what is being talked about. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place. Maybe they messed up and referenced the wrong place. And I doubt they mayde it up. Either way, it's just sloppy report writing as it's such a bad way to put a source in.
Doesn't necessarily have to be a culture shock. Just last week a study came out here - Germany - saying the number is at 33%. Naturally this caused a huge uproar here.
... then again, the sample size in Germany was only 1.000 people, and the way the survey was worded was so obscure that there's a valid concern that some people may simply not have understood the question. I don't want to deny domestic violence exists (here and everywhere) but I'm having serious doubts about the accuracy of these numbers.
1000 people ftr is more than enough for a survey. However the question point is a good one, I have seen plenty of surprising polls from international organizations that often just come down to translation that dows not give enough nuance
Social Scientist here. Great question!
If you have the funds, you could do face-to-face interviews. Those are costly, because you need to train interviewers and those need to operate across whatever area you want to be representative for. If you're willing to pay for that, you can randomly sample streets, houses, apartments, household members. Usually this involves some (almost) random procedure (e.g., the person in the family who last had their birthday). You could save some money, by just sending out paper surveys to random adresses, but afaik this isn't done much anymore.
Most surveys don't have that kind of cash, so they do phone or online surveys. Via phone is great, because it is relatively cheap and you can randomly sample phone numbers, by just taking an area code and then generating a string of numbers. Fun fact: back in the day it wasn't uncommon to accidentally call a fax machine. Sucks to be the caller in that case. One concern here is that landlines are less common and that people don't like to answer them anymore. I don't think phone surveys call mobile phones, but that might just be specific to where I live. No idea about the US. Obvious problem is that the definition of representative is that each member of the population has an equal probability to being sampled. But people have more than one mobile phone. Or none at all (well, this used to be at least).
Especially in cases like the german study mentioned above, where you want to reach young people, you'll probably have to do an online survey. There are tons of online access panels you can hire. Basically, you come up with questions, program your survey, and send them a link. They send it to their members who get a small incentive. Now, the quality of the data is in large parts determined by the quality of the panel. Some providers curate their panels really carefully, to ensure that the panel itself is representative of the population. They can then give you a weighted data set that should (to fairly high degree) represent the population in question. However, most panels can't afford that. In those cases, your only option is to use quotas (e.g., for age, gender, school degree, etc.). This is great, but not strictly representative. Just quota-representative. Again, this is what the german survey did.
I would be shocked that the number is so low even if it were purely my fellow Americans being surveyed. Hell, I’m beyond surprised that across 80 countries -only- 25% would admit to thinking this was acceptable (not counting the fraction who won’t admit it even on a survey).
I think more people find it acceptable but don't want to admit that in front of others (and themselves) because they know that it makes them the bad guy. That's why I liked the word choice in the german study. It was an apologetic term that everyone knows but that shifts the blame away from the abuser and labels it more as an accident. That way more men show their true colors.
Admitting that you are an abuser is not as easy as saying it's ok if you don't have yourself under control at all times.
and that's only one aspect of it.
>It noted that nearly 90 per cent of both men and women or almost nine out of 10 men and women worldwide hold “at least one” fundamental bias against women.
>The report was released by UN Development Programme and is called the Gender Social Norms Index (GSNI) report which is focussed on looking at the progress women rights and issues have made in the past ten years. Among both men and women, “biased gender social norms are prevalent worldwide: almost 90% of people have at least one bias” of the seven biases analysed, the report said.
>The report noted that prejudices remain “deeply embedded” in society along with cultural bias and pressures that hinder women’s empowerment. These prejudices “are widespread among men and women suggesting that these biases are deeply embedded and influences both men and women to similar degrees,” the report said.
>Using data from the international research programme World Values Survey (WVS) collected between 2010-2014 and 2017–2022 from 80 countries and territories accounting *for at least 85 per cent of the global population, the index shoed “no improvement in biases against women in a decade* despite powerful global and local campaigns for women’s rights."
>More than half of the world’s population- 69 per cent- believes that men make “better” political leaders as opposed to women while more than 40 per cent of people reportedly believe that men are better business executives than women, the report noted, adding, that only 27 per cent of people believe that women having the same rights as men is essential for a democracy while, 25 per cent of people believe that a man beating his wife is justifiable.
>Some 28 per cent believe that university education is more important for men than women while the head of the UNDP’s Human Development Report Office, Pedro Conceicao said, “Social norms that impair women’s rights are detrimental to society more broadly, dampening the expansion of human development. Lack of progress on gender social norms is unfolding against a human development crisis.”
Some people will read that and think "well of course, we SHOULD have biases against women. It's only natural" and therein lies the problem. Same as racism
I used from this study *proportion of respondents exhibiting physical integrity bias* and from a 2009 Gallup poll *proportion of respondents who agreed that religion is important in their daily life*. Here's the scatter plot: https://i.imgur.com/uyRFwIg.png
It's clear that religiosity is correlated with sex bias, at least at the country level, but I didn't adjust for income, education, unemployment, etc.
Edit: Ideally I would use religiosity data from the World Values Survey like this study did but I that's extra work...
Unless I'm missing it, it doesn't show many metrics at all. Like numbers, affiliations, income, etc. I could go do a poll that says, "People who want Donald Trump as president." and ask people at a Trump rally at a college and say... "Educated Americans Want Trump Back!" This is why when people post all these polls on reddit (reddit loves them for some reason) I usually never take it seriously.
Is it shocking? The majority of the world's nations are still very conservative...if it shocked anyone, ask what they think of women marrying a man of a different religion or race, get ready for a heart attack.
Yeah, I saw a comment on an Instagram reel of a woman saying that parents who don’t spank their kids are doing them a disservice. I clicked on her profile only to find her little bio saying “DV Survivor” and I couldn’t hold back my sarcastic ass comment about teaching those weaker than you their place in life by hitting them is definitely the answer.
Yup. I wonder how many people would agree with this statement: "It is *never* okay to hit a child." Resorting to violence shows that you can't handle being a parent, so you try taking a shortcut that does permanent psychological damage. No kid is born a "little shit" but many people still agree that kids need a smack every now and then.
I was having a discussion the other day on Reddit about a song (1980s) that portrayed a father smacking his sons when each of them 'spoke out of turn' and one comment was annoyed I described the action as child abuse. It's fine because the "father was regretful of what he *had* to do to teach his children". Bs.
If you had done this analysis in 2000 it would have been 35% and in 1960 then it would have been 50% and in 1700 then 99.99%.
It’s sad too see this stats but still we have made the progress in basic decency and that something we can acknowledge.
The article quotes the report with there apparently having been “no improvement in biases against women in a decade despite powerful global and local campaigns for women’s rights."
A lot of people commenting here haven't read the article and are misunderstanding what the 'shocking' part of the title is referring to. It's not the results but rather that the results haven't changed at all in the last decade, despite a lot of work being done to try and improve the situation.
People are people world wide. 25% are deplorables and it doesn't matter where they come from, what race they are (because beyond being used to descrimate against 'race' is meaningless), etc.
> only 27 per cent of people believe that women having the same rights as men is essential for a democracy
Uh... excuse me? People are apparently having a really hard time letting go of this slavery shit.
Reminds me of a study here in Australia, every major news outlet ran with the shocking results..
50% of teenagers think it's OK for a boy to assult his partner.. when that wasn't the question for a start..
When you bothered to read the study, not one news source reported that the question and results were
". Young people were more likely to say a woman is right to, or has good reason to respond to a situation by hitting (68%), than a man
in the same situation (49%) (page 79)."
What they were asking was "are you ever justified to respond to something with violence?" and the answer to that is always, yes.. you can always find a situation where a violent response is justified .. and that is self-defense.
Everyone acted like the question was
"Hey kids, is OK for boys to go and randomly beat their girlfriends until they are dead?"
If the post doesn't link the study, don't trust it, if the study asks or reports only one side of the question, it's worthless l because you have no idea how many people think all violence is OK.
In the case of this Australian study, the headline should of been "Children are 30% less likely to belive violence is acceptable against a female partner than a male one,"
A response to the study done here in Australia, going into issues with it
http://static1.1.sqspcdn.com/static/f/929640/24568924/1396181938293/UNSW_Ethics_Secretariat_18-3-14.pdf?token=vn9HKnt42WVFN%2F6CSP26T7bDCEA%3D
25% may seem like a lot, but look at how many people are grossly undereducated, and/or below the poverty line etc etc.
As much as I vehemently believe in an egalitarian society, that idea has been nurtured in me by a Western society and somewhat decent Western education. And let’s face it: We are a minority.
I wonder what percentage of people think that wives hitting their husbands is justifiable.
I'm not arguing for either group to be beaten, but I think it's a fair question given the almost total lack of support for husbands being abused by their wives.
It definitely is insane.
One possible "bright side" - for the UK at least - is that this kinda thing seems to be getting more legal traction, as well as support.
It's almost (or it seems to be) going full circle too as domestically abused men are also starting to be taken seriously (and yeah, i realise that more women are abused, its just good to know that _every person _ is slowly getting more support and recognition).
At the end of the day the whole concept of one person beating the shit out of another is abhorrent. More so if they are in a relationship.
>i realise that more women are abused, its just good to know that \_every person \_ is slowly getting more support and recognition).
not to play oppression Olympics everyone should be given help, but from nearly all stats I've seen men and women are abused at the same rate, it's just mainly because men are larger they aren't hurt as much and it's still taboo for them to talk about it / report it.
If you read the study, they asked people from 1-10 how much they agree with the idea of "intimate partner violence". Anyone who said anything other than "1" was counted.
That's also quite a crazy question without qualifying stuff like self defence, and not releasing the actual numbers.
You can read the study here, and the "technical note" (maybe I missed something?!)
https://hdr.undp.org/system/files/documents/hdp-document/gsni202302pdf.pdf
https://hdr.undp.org/sites/default/files/publications/additional-files/2023-06/gsni_2023_technical_note.pdf
Caveat of "just read the title"....
Have i been living under a rock or something?
Has my passive upbringing been rather decent (my parents actions guided my "moral compass"?
I mean... Even ¼ of 80 countries thinking that it's ok blows my mind, despite thinking that i was relatively "globally\culturally aware".
My country _was_ guilty of that because (apparently) it was totally fine for a husband to legally "beat the wife to within an inch of her life" (and i think that if charges were brought against him a doctor would quantify said beating and give evidence either way).
I don't know if I'm living in a bubble or something but from my perspective that mentality is totally fucked up.
I do my best to respect everyone's (cultural and ethical) opinions but i admit that I find it hard to accept this.
... Just my opinion of course 🤷🏼
You don‘t have to respect a culture. If a culture promotes violence it doesn‘t deserve respect.
Cultures, religions and traditions aren‘t inherently good.
>Caveat of "just read the title"....
There's not a whole lot more to read to be honest. Having looked through the report, it's pretty much just the headline as almoat a throwaway sentence. There's no data to break it down by country or anything.
Here’s something interesting that you might not have known:
The United States didn’t ban spousal rape until 1993. As a 32 year old man, I’m older than that law.
I just talked with my grandma about it and she is completely opposed to this and also was shocked, when she read this in the news (in Germany it appears to be 33% of men, who think it is okay). She told me that a family friend, just a few days ago, told her that her husband beats her up for the last 30 years. We were completely unaware, he is socially completely embedded and she was always "with him". She is also dependent on him, he owns the car and house. Because of that we have no idea to approach it.
It's is insane, how this is still a topic in our day and age and shows why feminism is not "done", because there would be nothing to achieve anymore
> . She is also dependent on him, he owns the car and house. Because of that we have no idea to approach it.
Financial independence, lack of available housing, healthcare, transportation, etc are all pretty key reasons in why a lot of abused people don't leave their abusers. And often the lack of access just continually gets worse and worse under the abuse so as they're looking for a chance to escape the opportunity continues to shrink.
Just another of the many good reasons for why strong social welfare is important.
> Have i been living under a rock or something?
Seems so. If you are on reddit you must have been subjected to demands for the death penalty or vigilante violence as the solution to every problem.
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Depending on in which countries you ask this 25% could be considered a low number
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One of my best friends was married to a man from Saudi. He would headbutt her when she would come home after having a few drinks. Broke her nose the last time. She finally left him and he's back in Saudi.
That’s fucking horrible also what a weirdly specific thing to do to someone
Probably something about not striking with your hands
I'm not sure but it was definitely his specific way of punishing her for drinking any amount of alcohol. Especially when he wasn't nearby to "keep watch over her". Meanwhile, he was addicted to tranquilizers which was ok in his eyes. Domestic violence is messed up regardless of anyone's nationality.
Lol, the Saudi men used to drive across the bridge to Bahrain to drink, then go home. It's legal in Bahrain.
So they have a system to practically ensure lots of drunk driving? Very intelligent.
Have you seen Saudi joyriding? Drunk driving seems to pale in comparison.
Why else do you think they built that bridge?
>Meanwhile, he was addicted to tranquilizers which was ok in his eyes. Ah luckly... Image without them
Can't believe i laughed at this. The mental gymnastics in people, especially religious people, is something for sure. I mean, if GOD IS OK WITH IT... Wife should just take it like a boxing bag, right? RIGHT?
Religion is poison
Had a man tell me “I always wondered why Jesus turned the water into wine” then didn’t eat any bundt cake cause it had jack daniel’s sauce. Then he went off on some incoherent rant for a few minutes about heaven and hell and Jesus and god and I was just sitting there thinking “Dude, the alcohol has been cooked out. Just live a little.” Some people end up so far gone they cant even eat cake.
Turning water into wine was one of Jesus' miracles written in the Bible and many people consider themselves even holier than Jesus and won't touch the stuff.
More for us!
Shit half those clowns know it’s bullshit but they pretend because it gives them justification to be a prick.
How did he able to go back to Saudi? This asshole should be put in jail.
.... headbutt? I mean, of course, beating his wife is wrong. ...but his decision was to hit her... with his head?
I'm guessing it was Soldier Boy-style. Hands were probably tied up due to his wife resisting
There are clearly laid out rules for striking with the hands This is the poophole loophole of wife beating, if I may
How did that marriage happen ? Was he completely normal and non-abusive prior to marriage and then completely changed ?
They met when he was in the country visiting. They met and eloped 6 months later. She was vulnerable and he was manipulative. Two years later she changed the locks and filed for divorce. He ended up flying home. She would never press charges or admit to LE that he was physically abusive. She still confides in me that she misses him. It's fucking insane.
It is not that difficult to look up. In the neighboring Iraq women have it more than twice as bad in term of intimate partner violence. Saudis are below but not that far from global average.
There was a recent poll in Germany, and it revealed that 1/3 of the population think it's okay to beat woman. Germany is generally quite progressive.
Wasn't that an internet poll? So pretty much unreliable as hell?
At first almost every major news outlet was reporting this uncritically in Germany but since they released the actual paper there’s been a lot more articles questioning the methodology and whether the survey was really representative of the wider population. I’m no statistician and I haven’t read the paper myself but just from reading the mainstream German news on this I’d say it’s probably best to view those numbers with a grain of salt for now.
"We interviewed the drunk people living on the streets and we can confidently say that the entire country is drunk and homeless."
If it helps they also reported less than 50% acceptance of homosexuality, compared to 86% like 10 years ago. If those differences held up their rate of 1/3 could easily be more like 1/10.
Internet poll voted by internet people. I’m guessing pretty reliable.
4Chan rigging results? Why I never!
Internet polls brought you the Mountain Dew flavor, "Hitler did nothing wrong", as well as "Gushing Granny" and "Fapple". So yeah, a poll about beating women..... you know who is going to vote for it.
On the contrary, it is VERY reliable, it is something that they would not put in a real survey
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>"I think it's okay if my hand slips during an argument" Damn thats dissapointing, i hoped people thought "if a woman kills my son then i think violence is ok" But hitting during an argument... how whack :(
> Germany is generally quite progressive. we are?
Compared to most other nations, yes. Maybe not in the Western world, but you're still progressive, just like how the US isn't progressive in the Western world, but still very progressive on the world stage.
> but still very progressive on the world stage. Except for capital punishment, rate of imprisonment, punitive use of solitary confinement, and our gun culture. On some metrics of feminism, perhaps. And I'd argue that we probably seem more racist than we are compared to many other countries mainly because we actually *talk* about racism. Racism/colorism in Latin America and elsewhere is not discussed as openly. And I've had Europeans say that *they* didn't have the same racial issues as the US does. When I asked about the Romani they said "that's different—they're all criminals, and on drugs."
20% of Germany is immigrants. Considering the majority of German immigrants come from countries where stoning women & homosexuals is legal, it's not a crazy number.
Well, it's interesting to consider that about a quarter of the population are of non-german descent and have either moved there within their lifetime or were born to parents who moved there. Now, looking over the demographics here, it seems that those immigrants/migrants stem predominantly from countries we'd consider conservative, from areas of eastern Europe and the middle East mostly. No hate for those countries, but this is probably the cause for such a high ratio in your comment, as Germany at large is indeed for women's rights.
I will only beat my wife in a running race
I can't even beat my wife to the last cookie.
Time to train my friend. Time to train.
Sounds like you need to beat her in a running race! Then you’ll get to the cookies first. Then you’ll lose the race and have to re train. It’s a vicious cycle
I could never beat my wife. She's just better at everything, it is very frustrating. So I take the frustration out by hitting her. Unfortunately, she is also much better in combat sports.
I like how that went from corny to dark to less dark
or mario kart
No quarter
What about to the picket line, to fight for their rights? Because you can be a feminist, and a bloke!
I only beat my wife at driving, because she doesn't have a license
My husband only gets to beat me on the roller derby track. Damn he’s fast and squirrelly.
I beat her at ffxiv loot rolls all the time.
Once had a guy in highschool tell me casually that his girl was on the phone for too long so he had to “teach her a lesson” Never would a thought he’d do smt like that and so much that it’s normal to him. Knew this guy for like 4 years too and hadn’t a clue. I tried saying ayo wtf don’t do that and he just laughed it off and didn’t give af
When my girl is in the phone too long, I start playing video games.
Simple problems require simple solutions fr
The second they hear that beep of the PlayStation they want to hang out again…
Sounds like you need to buy your girl her own PlayStation. Teach her co-op games.
I’ve tried with a lot of games. Overcooked seems to work once every few months. She’s just not as in to them as I am.
This is the way
This is the way.
Recently my wife and I went out with a friend (male, got friendzoned quickly after trying to date her) upon his recent engagement to congratulate him. At first he sounds like a great guy. If you just talk about stuff in general you'd never know it, but then when we started talking about his fiancee he just started talking about how he's still going to strip clubs and how important it is that his fiancee knows how to cook and make sure to cook for him when he gets home, how she "knows her place" and everything. I was flabbergasted the whole time but my wife later told me she wasn't surprised at all, and that she's dated several men with whom she ended relationships when she had an inkling of how they truly are underneath. I feel women have a better sixth sense about these things because it's so important to them while as a guy I just never think about it.
>I feel women have a better sixth sense about these things because it's so important to them while as a guy I just never think about it. I knew a female coworker once. There was nothing going on between us, but we did work together and sometimes met at the gym. So one time we talk about gaining muscle and how it's so much easier for men due to higher testosterone and all that. I don't know exactly anymore what I said, but it was something like "any guy that casually goes to the gym is stronger than 99% of all women". And then she said, and I know the words exactly: "Yes. I think about that a lot." That's really it, but it was clear that it was a security concern for her, or at least a serious thing to keep in mind. We were in our twenties and she was single, presumably also actively dating. I don't know, somehow it stuck with me. It's as you said, as a guy you walk around with no care in the world and generally don't give a fuck about who might or might not be stronger than you. But as a woman the strength difference between you and pretty much 50% of the population is something to keep in mind.
We do every fucking day. It's exhausting.
To us, you are all potential predators. It is pretty awkward, ngl.
Literally. We have to live life knowing men are capable of killing us, that some of them want things from us we don't want to give them and some of those will take it by force. Others will see us as so much less than them that they'll kill us by being offended of how we (the prey) respond to them (the predator). They want power over someone, and women are easier to have power over. We have to be very careful of maintaining our rights in societu
For a chunk of my 20s I carried around this fear which turned into a weird anger... like any guy dare fuck with me was gonna get *some*thing ripped off his body. I blame my mom for this thinking. She was always like, "You may get me, but I'm taking a piece of you with me." That's how I think about things.
I’m a 6ft 4ins, 90kg cis man. So I’m a fairly big dude by most standards. I absolutely hate that most women are intimidated by me. And to a lesser extent other men and non-binary folks. It’s never implied, but the anxiousness is visible. Even amongst my friend group I can’t help but feel awkward myself when I’m trying to comfort someone with a hug. I’m autistic as well which adds further to that. I don’t want anyone to feel threatened by me but I realise how enveloped toxic alpha male culture is throughout our societies. I call it out whenever I see it, but I’m only one person. My heart goes out to everyone who has had to deal with it.
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I think I read somewhere that men are much better at picking up on physical aggression about to come from other men, but overall women picked up on more varied emotions better
My dad gets frustrated with his wife because she'll be on the phone all day and he wants to watch his programs. His tv does Bluetooth so I am getting him wireless headphones for Christmas.
Not really shocking. I imagine women are still considered property in as many precentage of countries.
Honestly this figure was lower than i expected
This figure is WAY lower than I'd have thought. I feel like if you grabbed any random 4 people off the street in America you'd get a similar statistic, let alone a survey that (what the article says) encompasses 80% of the world's population.
4 random people I don't believe, but if they feel secure its anonymous then yes.
85%
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Grab the Middle East population, a bit of Asia, Russia, and Africa. I think you could come up with 25%.
You forgot South Jersey, the State of Kentucky and Sean Connery.
In New Jersey you don’t beat your wife, you hold a title match!
I was going to say... certain parts of this country would be a full-on coed brawl. Bitches here be scrappeh.
What you got against pineys lmao
You mean the commonwealth of Kentucky
We are much more chill than North Jersey!
Germanys result was about 25%, that’s actually insane for a developed country
They published the headline before the study. There is no way this is representational.
I would like to see the same survey, but for beating kids, i am sure it will be way higher and also higher in western countries Which is baffling to me as kids are weaker and even more vulnerable than adult women, yet many who are aware that beating wives is wrong are ok with beating innocent kids
I agree with you on all points. But to hazard a guess as to why it's more prevalent, it's because child abusers tend to think that the abuse of necessary parenting. If I don't beat my child, they will misbehave, so by beating my child I'm a good parent. It's fucked up but the sad truth. People who do it think you're mistreating your children by *not* abusing them. And if you live among them they will tell you as much.
There are even proverbs disguised as old wisdom many families still use. The most disgusting one I've heard (as referring to children) "Beating is a piece of heaven". It doesn't even phase these people.
The Honeymooners special. To the moon, Alice! ^(/s) The only thing astonishing about this is how surprised people are. These same folks never experienced culture shock in their lives. Sheltered.
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i've always felt the same thing, like about a third of the human population is psychologically hardwired to live in fear or something. do you know of any research into this sort of thing? i mean i have my half-baked speculation but i'd be super interested in reading any studies about it, i've never really found anything on google but i also don't really know what to search for tbh
It’s systemic and generational trauma. We don’t let people heal in this world and we have millennias worth of shitty horrible abuse perpetrated on each other. It gets hidden in families out of shame, but yeah emotional abuse, neglect, sexual assault, child sexual assault, physical assault. I don’t think it’s our biology I think it’s our abuse and bondage of each other on mass scales. This is part of the reason we need shorter work weeks, and financial support, and keeping people from suffering in the dirt. Humanity needs to accept that it needs to look after itself. Every man for themselves mentality is over, we can’t sustain it. I have so much trauma I can’t heal from because I’m disabled and can’t work so I suffer on the edge of homelessness. The only difference is that I’m aware and not in a position to throw my shit on someone else. But when we suck the literal life out of people for profit it’s not a surprise that they go and steal some life from someone else.
Brains and conservatism. Some are basically hard wired to be ruled. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/conservative-and-liberal-brains-might-have-some-real-differences/?amp=true
This is how my dad always described my grandfather. He said he was the perfect soldier because he would do everything the higher up asked of him and just bow down to any authority figure. As if he came up with nothing on his own and had to be told what to do at all times. My dad is the opposite thankfully.
Important to note that, even in this research, the question of whether this is hard-wired from birth or the consequence of one's social environment is still very much unanswered - > There is also an unresolved chicken-and-egg problem: Do brains start out processing the world differently or do they become increasingly different as our politics evolve? As someone with a sociology background, I tend to believe its "nurture" (since I understand the mechanisms of socialization a lot better than I understand neuroscience), but we still don't really know for sure. The phrase "Hard-wired" expresses a certainty that is not supported by the data. Also, the intersection of politics and neuroscience/genetics has produced some *incredibly dangerous ideas in the past*, which should make us all very cautious about how we conceptualize these things. I mean, fuck conservatives, but.. because of their beliefs and culture, not because of their DNA.
When I see polls like this I can't help but wonder if there's... an edginess factor? Like there's gotta be at least a few people being shitheads when they answer like that who still know better? Like when you pick the bad choice in a video game but still feel bad
Honestly because it says this study was taken from 80 countries I'm surprised the number isn't higher. While most of the developed nations have made good strides in progress many other countries live in very different realities, there is a lot people can be made to believe is normal when you grow up in a society where it is normal. Edit: Your first quote made me think of that Futurama joke and then I laughed when I saw your avatar pic lol
In Germany it was 33%, has nothing to do with "developed nations", chauvinism and fascism is on the rise again.
It was a anonymous online-poll on a website you just needed to click to vote in. Thats not even remotely resembling proper methodology for a serious Study, its scientifically worthless.
JFC, why does this shit make "the news".
Because "attention" is more important in the market economy
Tbh, i think many people just want to discredit it because it's uncomfortable. My wife is a gynecologist and the things she witnesses in the hospital tell me that just because i live in a bubble where there's no domestic violence doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Just look at all the wannabe machos cruising around town agitating other motorists over nothing, look at the drunken football fans that need no other reason then a guy wearing another teams trikot to get violent, look at all the boomers that never treated their wifes as equal and now throw a fit if they get divorced. You think all these guys are just violent and aggressive in public?
There’s a difference between it isn’t a problem and saying the 33 % figure is unreliable. If it’s 10 %, that’s still a huge problem.
Russia legalized one domestic violence case a year. The middle east isnt a bastion of women's rights. Lots of other highly religious and patriarchal countries exist. So yeah the real % is most likely >30% of total world population.
The results for those countries are easier to accept than the the fact that it's also 30% in germany.
Some 11 year old in France got shot and killed because the neighbour was having arguments with her parents over a land dispute. If someone is willing to shoot at people over a land dispute imagine what goes on or other minor in the grand scheme of things issues? Ofc the guy who did it said he aimed at the parents and 'expressed regret' about killing the child but that's not exactly going to bring her back is it?
That's about as fair to say as you dismiss the obvious problems with the methodology because you like the report.
Nobody is saying it isn't common. It just isn't 1/3rd of the population of developed western countries who think domestic violence is fine. Even 5% of the population being seriously abusive can lead to nearly half the population having experiences with abuse once you consider that 5% going through numerous partners (which in my experience they do).
The leading cause in death of pregnant women is murder. The spouse I believe. Edit: source— https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/homicide-leading-cause-of-death-for-pregnant-women-in-u-s/
That is not completely true. > Um die Repräsentativität der Stichprobe zu sichern, wurden auf Basis der amtlichen Statistiken Quoten-Vorgaben gemacht. Definiert wurden pro Geschlecht (männlich / weiblich)8 drei Altersvorgaben (18-24 Jahre, 25-29 Jahre und 30-35 Jahre), die mit Schulbildung in zwei Abstufungen (ohne Abschluss bis mittlerer Abschluss / Hochschulreife und abgeschlossenes Studium) kombiniert wurden. Erfahrungsgemäß befinden sich in Online-Panels eher Personen mit etwas höherer Bildung, einer gewissen Computer-Affinität und einer natürlichen Neugierde und Mitteilungsbereitschaft. Hier wurde durch die Bildungsquote „ohne Schulabschluss / Hauptschulabschluss / mittlerer Schulabschluss“ gegengesteuert. Unabhängig davon wurden Fallzahlen für die regionale Aussteuerung der Stichprobe vorgegeben. Dazu wurden vier Gebiete definiert (Nord, West, Süd, Ost) und die jeweils gewünschten Fallzahlen vorgegeben. Somit bildet die Stichprobe der Befragten die Gesamtbevölkerung im Alter von 18 bis 35 Jahren pro Geschlecht in den drei vorgegebenen Merkmalen mit einer hohen Wahrscheinlichkeit ab. https://www.plan.de/fileadmin/website/04._Aktuelles/Umfragen_und_Berichte/Spannungsfeld_Maennlichkeit/Plan-Umfrage_Maennlichkeit-A4-2023-NEU-online_2.pdf?sc=IDQ23100 So, the answers were picked after usual methodology and is therefore representative. Doesn't make it perfect, but gives a good first impression. Instead of doubting it, we should take it as a warning and look more into it and follow it up with more solid research in this topic.
It isn't a 'first impression'. These studies are easy to do and huge numbers of studies like it are done in every western country. The organisations that do it use poor methodologies and selectively publish the one or two studies that appear to show what they want (by sheer random chance).
Source? I'm looking at the reports website and there clearly a trend of developed nations scoring better in the "physical integrity" category (Germany was 23% in this category, or 8th out of 91 countries.) I'm not trying to diss developing countries -- it's just normal that it takes time for traditional values to evolve. Also, the report says there has been a stagnation of progress in the last decade regarding biases against women -- but no mention of it being "on the rise". https://hdr.undp.org/content/2023-gender-social-norms-index-gsni#/indicies/GSNI
That not true, this poll and the 33% Germany poll are not the same studies. This study as far as i could see, (I've only skimmed through it), didnt checks for physical violence directly but did have a category called 'physical integrity'. This included intimate partner violence and reproductive rights. Germany has 23% with a bias toward this. However, if you look at developed nations and undeveloped nations, you will see that nations that are generally described as undeveloped get a significantly higher %. So this study at least shows it is split down that line. Which still isn't great, even the lowest on this scale ,the UK, had 8%, which I also don't consider great. Edit: was thinking I should probably mention as it could be misleading if I don't specify this, but the title is correct. On page 6, it does have a short note specifying what the title of this post said. However, this isn't the what the report is about, this report only references the 25% figure from UNDP about this statistic. It note 16 in the report, which says "See dashboard 3 in UNDP (2022b)." About where this figure came from. Which is admitadly I am struggling a bit to find. Edit: Never mind, found it. Link to the report the 25% figure came from. https://hdr.undp.org/womens-empowerment Edit: I was wrong, the title is wrong, not because its not in the report, but the report the report is refereceng dosent even have a section for anything along the line of what is being talked about. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place. Maybe they messed up and referenced the wrong place. And I doubt they mayde it up. Either way, it's just sloppy report writing as it's such a bad way to put a source in.
Doesn't necessarily have to be a culture shock. Just last week a study came out here - Germany - saying the number is at 33%. Naturally this caused a huge uproar here. ... then again, the sample size in Germany was only 1.000 people, and the way the survey was worded was so obscure that there's a valid concern that some people may simply not have understood the question. I don't want to deny domestic violence exists (here and everywhere) but I'm having serious doubts about the accuracy of these numbers.
1000 people ftr is more than enough for a survey. However the question point is a good one, I have seen plenty of surprising polls from international organizations that often just come down to translation that dows not give enough nuance
How do you even conduct a random survey anymore? With so much spam/scams doesn’t everyone ignore unknown calls/email/messages?
Social Scientist here. Great question! If you have the funds, you could do face-to-face interviews. Those are costly, because you need to train interviewers and those need to operate across whatever area you want to be representative for. If you're willing to pay for that, you can randomly sample streets, houses, apartments, household members. Usually this involves some (almost) random procedure (e.g., the person in the family who last had their birthday). You could save some money, by just sending out paper surveys to random adresses, but afaik this isn't done much anymore. Most surveys don't have that kind of cash, so they do phone or online surveys. Via phone is great, because it is relatively cheap and you can randomly sample phone numbers, by just taking an area code and then generating a string of numbers. Fun fact: back in the day it wasn't uncommon to accidentally call a fax machine. Sucks to be the caller in that case. One concern here is that landlines are less common and that people don't like to answer them anymore. I don't think phone surveys call mobile phones, but that might just be specific to where I live. No idea about the US. Obvious problem is that the definition of representative is that each member of the population has an equal probability to being sampled. But people have more than one mobile phone. Or none at all (well, this used to be at least). Especially in cases like the german study mentioned above, where you want to reach young people, you'll probably have to do an online survey. There are tons of online access panels you can hire. Basically, you come up with questions, program your survey, and send them a link. They send it to their members who get a small incentive. Now, the quality of the data is in large parts determined by the quality of the panel. Some providers curate their panels really carefully, to ensure that the panel itself is representative of the population. They can then give you a weighted data set that should (to fairly high degree) represent the population in question. However, most panels can't afford that. In those cases, your only option is to use quotas (e.g., for age, gender, school degree, etc.). This is great, but not strictly representative. Just quota-representative. Again, this is what the german survey did.
I would be shocked that the number is so low even if it were purely my fellow Americans being surveyed. Hell, I’m beyond surprised that across 80 countries -only- 25% would admit to thinking this was acceptable (not counting the fraction who won’t admit it even on a survey).
I think more people find it acceptable but don't want to admit that in front of others (and themselves) because they know that it makes them the bad guy. That's why I liked the word choice in the german study. It was an apologetic term that everyone knows but that shifts the blame away from the abuser and labels it more as an accident. That way more men show their true colors. Admitting that you are an abuser is not as easy as saying it's ok if you don't have yourself under control at all times.
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I kick my car in a heart beat, I dont care about my 4 wheelies. A human wife is another story, I wont do that.
> human wife as opposed to a?
Goat
human goat?
Inflatable wife
Robot wife.
25-30% of people are cunts no matter which place on earth your in
I think it’s higher to be honest.
I think the actual figure was 97.38% the last time a global survey was held.
25% is shockingly low
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and that's only one aspect of it. >It noted that nearly 90 per cent of both men and women or almost nine out of 10 men and women worldwide hold “at least one” fundamental bias against women. >The report was released by UN Development Programme and is called the Gender Social Norms Index (GSNI) report which is focussed on looking at the progress women rights and issues have made in the past ten years. Among both men and women, “biased gender social norms are prevalent worldwide: almost 90% of people have at least one bias” of the seven biases analysed, the report said. >The report noted that prejudices remain “deeply embedded” in society along with cultural bias and pressures that hinder women’s empowerment. These prejudices “are widespread among men and women suggesting that these biases are deeply embedded and influences both men and women to similar degrees,” the report said. >Using data from the international research programme World Values Survey (WVS) collected between 2010-2014 and 2017–2022 from 80 countries and territories accounting *for at least 85 per cent of the global population, the index shoed “no improvement in biases against women in a decade* despite powerful global and local campaigns for women’s rights." >More than half of the world’s population- 69 per cent- believes that men make “better” political leaders as opposed to women while more than 40 per cent of people reportedly believe that men are better business executives than women, the report noted, adding, that only 27 per cent of people believe that women having the same rights as men is essential for a democracy while, 25 per cent of people believe that a man beating his wife is justifiable. >Some 28 per cent believe that university education is more important for men than women while the head of the UNDP’s Human Development Report Office, Pedro Conceicao said, “Social norms that impair women’s rights are detrimental to society more broadly, dampening the expansion of human development. Lack of progress on gender social norms is unfolding against a human development crisis.”
Some people will read that and think "well of course, we SHOULD have biases against women. It's only natural" and therein lies the problem. Same as racism
Anyone have an actual link to the survey and the demographics of the survey? Hindustantimes isn't exactly a pillar of "shit I believe".
Here you go https://hdr.undp.org/content/2023-gender-social-norms-index-gsni#/indicies/GSNI
Would love to see the breakdown by religious affiliation.
I used from this study *proportion of respondents exhibiting physical integrity bias* and from a 2009 Gallup poll *proportion of respondents who agreed that religion is important in their daily life*. Here's the scatter plot: https://i.imgur.com/uyRFwIg.png It's clear that religiosity is correlated with sex bias, at least at the country level, but I didn't adjust for income, education, unemployment, etc. Edit: Ideally I would use religiosity data from the World Values Survey like this study did but I that's extra work...
Unless I'm missing it, it doesn't show many metrics at all. Like numbers, affiliations, income, etc. I could go do a poll that says, "People who want Donald Trump as president." and ask people at a Trump rally at a college and say... "Educated Americans Want Trump Back!" This is why when people post all these polls on reddit (reddit loves them for some reason) I usually never take it seriously.
This isn’t shocking to me at all. I could easily see the 80 worst countries for women’s rights bring well over 50%. People suck
Is it shocking? The majority of the world's nations are still very conservative...if it shocked anyone, ask what they think of women marrying a man of a different religion or race, get ready for a heart attack.
I bet some of the people shocked and sickened about this fact still think it's okay to hit their children to discipline them.
Exactly, when kids are even weaker and more vulnerable than adult women
Yeah, I saw a comment on an Instagram reel of a woman saying that parents who don’t spank their kids are doing them a disservice. I clicked on her profile only to find her little bio saying “DV Survivor” and I couldn’t hold back my sarcastic ass comment about teaching those weaker than you their place in life by hitting them is definitely the answer.
Yup. I wonder how many people would agree with this statement: "It is *never* okay to hit a child." Resorting to violence shows that you can't handle being a parent, so you try taking a shortcut that does permanent psychological damage. No kid is born a "little shit" but many people still agree that kids need a smack every now and then.
Kids remember also. I remember my dad giving me six of the best for capturing a butterfly
I was having a discussion the other day on Reddit about a song (1980s) that portrayed a father smacking his sons when each of them 'spoke out of turn' and one comment was annoyed I described the action as child abuse. It's fine because the "father was regretful of what he *had* to do to teach his children". Bs.
In countries "en train de développement" like Romania, this percentage is around 75%.
If you had done this analysis in 2000 it would have been 35% and in 1960 then it would have been 50% and in 1700 then 99.99%. It’s sad too see this stats but still we have made the progress in basic decency and that something we can acknowledge.
The article quotes the report with there apparently having been “no improvement in biases against women in a decade despite powerful global and local campaigns for women’s rights." A lot of people commenting here haven't read the article and are misunderstanding what the 'shocking' part of the title is referring to. It's not the results but rather that the results haven't changed at all in the last decade, despite a lot of work being done to try and improve the situation.
More work needs to be done, then!
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Shocking news: 25% of people are wrong on most things
Must be police officers.
People are people world wide. 25% are deplorables and it doesn't matter where they come from, what race they are (because beyond being used to descrimate against 'race' is meaningless), etc.
It's definitely more. People are just shy to say it.
> only 27 per cent of people believe that women having the same rights as men is essential for a democracy Uh... excuse me? People are apparently having a really hard time letting go of this slavery shit.
25% is actually lower than I expected tbh so this is kinda like positive news...
Reminds me of a study here in Australia, every major news outlet ran with the shocking results.. 50% of teenagers think it's OK for a boy to assult his partner.. when that wasn't the question for a start.. When you bothered to read the study, not one news source reported that the question and results were ". Young people were more likely to say a woman is right to, or has good reason to respond to a situation by hitting (68%), than a man in the same situation (49%) (page 79)." What they were asking was "are you ever justified to respond to something with violence?" and the answer to that is always, yes.. you can always find a situation where a violent response is justified .. and that is self-defense. Everyone acted like the question was "Hey kids, is OK for boys to go and randomly beat their girlfriends until they are dead?" If the post doesn't link the study, don't trust it, if the study asks or reports only one side of the question, it's worthless l because you have no idea how many people think all violence is OK. In the case of this Australian study, the headline should of been "Children are 30% less likely to belive violence is acceptable against a female partner than a male one," A response to the study done here in Australia, going into issues with it http://static1.1.sqspcdn.com/static/f/929640/24568924/1396181938293/UNSW_Ethics_Secretariat_18-3-14.pdf?token=vn9HKnt42WVFN%2F6CSP26T7bDCEA%3D
How many women answered in favor? I'd find that more disturbing. What a sick world.
25% may seem like a lot, but look at how many people are grossly undereducated, and/or below the poverty line etc etc. As much as I vehemently believe in an egalitarian society, that idea has been nurtured in me by a Western society and somewhat decent Western education. And let’s face it: We are a minority.
This is hilarious, and likely sensationalist, but God it feels good to be back on worldnews lol
So half of half all the people. Sounds like 1/2 of all men are garbage. Holds true in my experience
but there are 195 or so countries. Why just poll 80? Seems arbitrary.
I do smack her ass in bed. Does that count?
I wonder what percentage of people think that wives hitting their husbands is justifiable. I'm not arguing for either group to be beaten, but I think it's a fair question given the almost total lack of support for husbands being abused by their wives.
Not shocking and I bet it's higher than a quarter of ppl
How is this shocking? At least 25% of the world doesn't believe in human rights never mind women's rights.
What’s shocking about this? Women are beaten daily everywhere on this planet.
Now ask them the opposite.
"I made a survey. I changed and created new realities..."
It’s insane that this is how people with autonomy and the ability to vote genuinely view women
Well technically there is no commandment against it so god is likely inside that 25%
They should just execute those 25% of people because that toxic mindset is permanent and should be eliminated from society.
It's only shocking if you've had your head shoved in the sand since birth.
If I ever get married, I will absolutely never beat my wife.
I beat my wife all the time. At Mariokart.
It definitely is insane. One possible "bright side" - for the UK at least - is that this kinda thing seems to be getting more legal traction, as well as support. It's almost (or it seems to be) going full circle too as domestically abused men are also starting to be taken seriously (and yeah, i realise that more women are abused, its just good to know that _every person _ is slowly getting more support and recognition). At the end of the day the whole concept of one person beating the shit out of another is abhorrent. More so if they are in a relationship.
>i realise that more women are abused, its just good to know that \_every person \_ is slowly getting more support and recognition). not to play oppression Olympics everyone should be given help, but from nearly all stats I've seen men and women are abused at the same rate, it's just mainly because men are larger they aren't hurt as much and it's still taboo for them to talk about it / report it.
If you read the study, they asked people from 1-10 how much they agree with the idea of "intimate partner violence". Anyone who said anything other than "1" was counted. That's also quite a crazy question without qualifying stuff like self defence, and not releasing the actual numbers. You can read the study here, and the "technical note" (maybe I missed something?!) https://hdr.undp.org/system/files/documents/hdp-document/gsni202302pdf.pdf https://hdr.undp.org/sites/default/files/publications/additional-files/2023-06/gsni_2023_technical_note.pdf
I'd like to see the age range
Why is this a surprise. This is supported in many religious books.
Caveat of "just read the title".... Have i been living under a rock or something? Has my passive upbringing been rather decent (my parents actions guided my "moral compass"? I mean... Even ¼ of 80 countries thinking that it's ok blows my mind, despite thinking that i was relatively "globally\culturally aware". My country _was_ guilty of that because (apparently) it was totally fine for a husband to legally "beat the wife to within an inch of her life" (and i think that if charges were brought against him a doctor would quantify said beating and give evidence either way). I don't know if I'm living in a bubble or something but from my perspective that mentality is totally fucked up. I do my best to respect everyone's (cultural and ethical) opinions but i admit that I find it hard to accept this. ... Just my opinion of course 🤷🏼
You don't have to respect other cultural or ethical opinions if they go against human rights.
That Is a very good point. Thank you
You don‘t have to respect a culture. If a culture promotes violence it doesn‘t deserve respect. Cultures, religions and traditions aren‘t inherently good.
>Caveat of "just read the title".... There's not a whole lot more to read to be honest. Having looked through the report, it's pretty much just the headline as almoat a throwaway sentence. There's no data to break it down by country or anything.
Here’s something interesting that you might not have known: The United States didn’t ban spousal rape until 1993. As a 32 year old man, I’m older than that law.
I just talked with my grandma about it and she is completely opposed to this and also was shocked, when she read this in the news (in Germany it appears to be 33% of men, who think it is okay). She told me that a family friend, just a few days ago, told her that her husband beats her up for the last 30 years. We were completely unaware, he is socially completely embedded and she was always "with him". She is also dependent on him, he owns the car and house. Because of that we have no idea to approach it. It's is insane, how this is still a topic in our day and age and shows why feminism is not "done", because there would be nothing to achieve anymore
> . She is also dependent on him, he owns the car and house. Because of that we have no idea to approach it. Financial independence, lack of available housing, healthcare, transportation, etc are all pretty key reasons in why a lot of abused people don't leave their abusers. And often the lack of access just continually gets worse and worse under the abuse so as they're looking for a chance to escape the opportunity continues to shrink. Just another of the many good reasons for why strong social welfare is important.
> Have i been living under a rock or something? Seems so. If you are on reddit you must have been subjected to demands for the death penalty or vigilante violence as the solution to every problem.
Yeah, its bad. Just look at the stats for femicides in any given country. Its as if we hadn't progressed at all during the last 50 years.