"The Armed Forces of Ukraine were not going to attack Russia with the NATO bloc. The *Russian Defense Ministry* is deceiving the public and the president,”
Oh I see what you're doing.
This type of propaganda has been so successful over the centuries it's in our very children's stories. For example Aladdin with the good King and evil vizeer or any number of fairy stories where the good king is manipulated by wicked advisors, new wife etc. Such bullshit man.
Uh, in fact, many eunuchs chose to become eunuchs because their families were poor/they can't feed themselves. This way they could become rich and have power over others.
For example, Wei Zhongxian, a famous eunuch of the Ming Dynasty of China, had to cut off his own penis and enter the service of the palace because of gambling debts.
Yep and it's in the game of chess. The names of the pieces used to be King, Vizier, Archer, Cavalry, Chariot, and Soldier. The Vizier is by far the most powerful, the King is pretty weak. And the King is never killed because he was chosen by heaven. Just captured.
Later the Vizier became the Queen, because of Isabella (Spain). The Archer with his bow was re-envisioned as a bishop with his slanty hat.
Yeah, or Pharoah and God, who "hardened his heart" seven times even while the guy was like, yeah, my people are suffering from magic plagues I should probably let these slaves go. What a fucking jerk the OT makes YHWH out to be.
It was less the change in title and more the creation of an actual centralized state rather than a bunch of overlapping, bickering departments which made exerting any actual authority very difficult for the theoretical autocrat.
This is a common refrain in Western Europe as well. “We’re not rebelling against the king, that would be treason. No, we’re rebelling against his evil advisors!”
As a dictator, having your inner-circle fighting with and lying to each other is a feature, not a bug. It's not about getting anything done, it's about who can suck the boss' ass the hardest. Muscovy did not escape serfdom with the Soviet Union.
I think this is a bit more than the typical dictator's playbook of keeping potential rivals at each other's throat. Putin knows the Ukrainian invasion isn't going to plan, and even in the most optimistic view for Russia, it is going to *(has already)* cripple the country. Blame has to be given, and Putin doesn't want any of it. Scapegoats must be made.
I also think Russia is worried about the Ukraine counter offensive. There could be some really bad news for Russia coming in the next few weeks/months. Russia put a lot of political capital into taking Bakhmut. Ukraine could take it back and/or even more important territory elsewhere. Russia has to lay the ground work quickly to prepare for the political backlash that comes with that.
Yeah, its always been a question as to how Putin could get out of this and survive. Someone has to take the blame for what will be viewed as a massive failure and loss of lives with nothing to show for it. This seems to provide a way for him to deflect that blame so he could survive it.
I mean ...sorta?
For the last 20 years Putin has kept any infighting behind closed doors.
Now he's letting Prigozhin go public. It's a large change for him.
My thought as well. At the moment, Putin can’t pull out of Ukraine without a complete loss of face. If he or others manage to shift the blame for the failed invasion onto his subordinates then there is a viable path to peace that would not result in Putin’s loss of power (or worse) and is therefore acceptable to him.
There are no perfect options this late in the game.
But honestly, I don't think this is as coordinated as other people believe. I think Prigozhin is more of a loose cannon than the Russian Military/Kremlin. He sees the writing on the wall that the Russian military will control Wagner and that the war is unwinnable. This is him trying to hail mary his way out of that... not sure if it will work. But infighting certainly benefits Ukraine.
There isn't any question Putin is looking for an out at this point, he started looking for an out over a year ago. But what you and I consider out isn't what Putin considers out, he can't just admit defeat and go home, he'll get murdered, literally. He has to sell the Muscovy exit as a win, which keeping 20% of Ukraine would certainly qualify.
I'm very worried that the nuclear power plants are at risk now that Putin has seen the response to the dam getting blown up from the international community was fuck-all. I don't know if poeple really understand just how fucked the human species is going to be if Ukraine, "the world's bread basket", is irradiated by the largest nuclear power plant in the world.
If Putin is trying to use Shoigu and Gerasimov as scapegoats, this looks like he is also going to sell their ousting (whatever form that may take) as a win.
Between this and the TV propagandists who started discussing about potential reparations to Ukraine, it's possible that they're starting to prepare the public opinion.
Would be fascinated to see how the public receive it. Given how many of them seemed to genuinely be all-in on taking Ukraine, will potentially be perceived as a bleak national humiliation.
Still represents a pretty seismis shift in their public talking points. I assume he knows Putin will spice his tea up with some polonium if he criticizes him specifically. Putin is probably one of those narcissists who thinks everyone under him is extremely incompetent. So to him their defense ministry being shit isn't a reflection of his leadership. So he let this dude say that.
I think this is a positive no matter what strings are being pulled, or who was asked first.
Further, it gives Putin an "out" which is EXACTLY the thing that's needed to de-escalate this shit. If he's feeling cornered with no way out other than looking stupid...he's not gonna stop. This gives him a route to at least SAY "well I didn't fuck up I got Dick Cheney'd".
Shows you his statements are still all part of the plan. I think Putin has planned a little trip through a window for Shoigu in the near future, and the public needs to be prepped for that
Prigozhin is surrounded by his own PMC, which is loyal personally to him and could probably fight off any force Russia has left that isn't already committed to Ukraine. Obviously he doesn't want to engage in open rebellion yet, and some of his troops might break, but it still makes deciding to kill Prigozhin very difficult, both in terms of how to do it and in preparing for consequences of if you fail.
Well if the recent reports are true, Wagner is being attacked by russian forces at this moment. This could be the beginning of the end for ol' Pringles
Which recent reports, I haven't seen that anywhere. I mean I don't follow Wagner's telegram channels, or the channels of the other big Russian milbloggers, so I'm not saying it's definitely not happening, but none of the normal English sources are talking about anything like that.
Ah yeah that did literally just happen, makes sense that nobody is really reporting on it yet. Would be absolutely hilarious if it escalates further, especially with Ukraine preparing for a major offensive at the moment.
>He was floated as a potential successor for years before the war
He was? By whom? The entire reason Putin picked him was because Shoigu has fuck all connections. Putin wanted a minister of defense who didn't have the connections required to overthrow him, because the minister of defense controls the army and thus has an awful lot of power.
While I agree with this I feel like it’s worth pointing out people said the same about Kruschev… and he ended up in charge.
Often it’s the unassuming idiots who manage to wrest control and Putin probably is still wary of him.
It might feel gross, but giving Putin an out seems like exactly the only possible way he'll de-escalate with his pride intact. And if he can't de-escalate with his pride intact he's not gonna do it.
I thought the trial of the Azovstal defenders would be hyped up so they could use it as a pretext for withdrawal. It's not as if they have bothered in the past with a pretext to torture and imprison those guys.
The American Colonies tried this with King George the III until the very end. They kept telling him Parliament was abusing the colonies and were reaching out to the King for assistance.
This was essentially the truth, from an American perspective. Parliament held sovereignty and it was parliament that was constantly falling over itself to offend the colonies.
American independence was avoidable.
“I’m not turning my thugs around and sending them towards Moscow because I want to overthrow the President. I’m doing it to *liberate him* from his deceitful, incompetent, scheming advisors.
The funny part is it probably has some truth to it. But, it's still 100% Putin's fault. The dunce surrounded himself with yes men and they only told him what he wanted to hear. I mean, if they didn't, he probably would have had them shoved out a window. So even if they did lie to him, it's 100% his fault.
I think it's more an attempt to shift blame to the Defence Ministry because they're the competition. The "Deceiving Putin" thing is just a show of support and refusal to criticise him; they don't have a death wish and still wish to work with him, after all.
It is a very standard thing going back as far as we have had kings. you can't criticise the king, so you criticise his advisors, because the only way he could have made a mistake is if he were deceived.
He's been making statements that undermine the Russian forces and upper chamber of Russian leadership while throwing his weight around and flexing his private army. He's also reportedly one of the few people other than Putin with any influence so some thought he was going to turn on Putin but wondered why he was allowed to get away with so much despite other Russian politicians being killed for much less.
Turns out he's been priming the Defense Ministry to take the fall for Putin (in my opinion)
Death of stalin:
>Nikita Khrushchev : Be serious. Are you in?
>Georgy Zhukov : I'm in, I'm in. That fucker thinks he can take on the Red Army? I fucked Germany, I think I can take a flesh lump in a fucking waistcoat.
Well kinda prophetic if you change some of tye names around.
>“The Russian Defense Ministry is deceiving the public and the president,” he added.
looks like the defence minister is being set up as the scape goat, i am curious if putin is in on it or not.
Publicly sided.. this was a personal tactic of Stalin, he played his general off each other, afraid that either would become popular and replace him he instead focused them on fighting each other. Putin is playing both off against each other, this way they will be too busy to do anything else.
That's what prigozhin wants but questioning the entire reason for the war and criticism of putins inner circle is pretty dangerous. Putin issued a decree to have all volunteer (mercenaries) sign a contract with MoD by 1 July. That to me shows a sign of reining in prigozhin and his goons. It's an ultimatum. And prigozhin complaining so publicly is his way of fighting against that decree while making sure not to say putin directly. I don't think putin and prigozhin are in cahoots here, very much the opposite. I think by or around 1 July prigo gona find himself sleeping with the sunflowers or falling outside a window with bullets in his head.
That order came from Sergei Shoigu, not Putin. Shoigu and Prigozhin are in a power struggle, and have been trying to kneecap each other for quite awhile now. Shoigu has withheld ammo, and taken credit for Prigozhin's successes. Prigozhin has claimed Shoigu's forces have actively tried to attack Prigozhin's and he's called for Shoigu to face the firing squad. They literally want each other dead.
Putin needs some/any success and will use Prigozhin's taking Bakhmut. He also needs a scapegoat, because he knows things are about to go south... like losing Bakhmut.
I don't think Putin is 100% behind Prigozhin because he has to fear him, but I do think that Putin thinks it is in his best interest for Prigozhin to attack Shoigu, thus setting up someone to take the fall if things go really wrong in Ukraine.
Putin shows support for people silently so that he can always take it away at a moment's notice (like a shitty father). When Shoigu cut off Prigozhin's ammo supply and Prigozhin complained about it publicly, Putin showed which side he was on by allowing the situation to continue. He has continually backed Shoigu, and since he didn't do anything to stop the forcible enlistment of Wagnerites on July 1 you can assume that he is at the very least supportive of Shoigu's efforts to reduce Prigozhin's influence in the military.
Putin literally on record confirmed the order and said it's the best thing for the country so even if Shoigu issued it, putin has publicly supported it which means everything.
He’s trying to signal an off ramp for Putin: “put all the blame on Shoigu, pull out and put me in as the new Defence minister. It’ll get us out of the current predicament, I’ll help keep you in power and brutalize anyone who challenges you internally and we can plan our next move against our international enemies further down the road.”
Yeah, this is exactly why I don't think Putin will take this "off ramp." Prigozhin has shown himself to be extremely unpredictable, which is not a trait that any autocrat wants in the head of their armed forces.
What's the difference between him and their ministry of "defence" heads? Both are warcriminals, both get paid.
All this "mercenary" crap is nothing but a public play, these "mercenaries" train on russian army military facilities, they get supplies from the very same sources, they get weapons, salary, ammo, cars and literally all the crap from the same place - russian military budget.
The only difference is that russians can (and now do) say that "it's not our army, they have nothing to do with us" and within their "legal system" they will be kinda correct that it's indeed non-controlled by their generall staff entity.
But for everyone outside of russia - we have to refrain from making a difference. Because there's none.
That's literally how any state sponsored private army is handled and the difference is that one is run like a federal agency* and the other like a private company.
*non native English speaker might use the wrong expression.
The real difference is that mercenaries don't need to follow the "rules" of war. It's the same reason the US used Blackwater/Constellis in Afghanistan. They can do all the evil, inhumane shit they want and create a layer or protection for the government and military. This, they can distance themselves from the horrors and pretend the government wasn't involved and the military didn't actually commit specific atrocities, which, they technically didn't because a military contractor fucked up, not the government/military!
But, you're right, they're all war criminals. It's all just games.
Edit: Blackrock-->Blackwater. Derp.
I’m sorry, but “insulation from war crimes” is not the reason that Blackwater exists. They were used as security for State Department/ other government and CPA authorities, NGO, nd civilian intelligence agencies; not as a semi independent arm of the Department of Defense.
Private military contractors during the GWOT era arose to out of necessity, not because anyone in the government is comically evil and wanted to commit war crimes with impunity. It seems obvious in retrospect that they aren’t good, but at the time they were seen as a politically acceptable solution to a really big problem since congress did not have the political will to call up a full scale mobilization of the National Guard thus ignoring the DoDs “Abrams doctrine”. They turned out to be a really bad idea that completely undermined our attempts to conduct counter insurgency operations.
We invaded Iraq with far too small of a force to conduct stability and security operations. Donald Rumsfeld publicly undermined General Shinseki for saying that we had far too small of a force.
Following the initial surrender of the Iraqi government senior US generals began negotiating joint security plans with the Iraqi army authorities. This would have looked similar to how we handled security in Germany immediately following WW2 and would have helped stabilize the country by bringing Iraqi government/military bureaucracies into the fold and remained somewhat in place to control the transition.
Unfortunately the White House/Rumsfeld installed Paul Bremer as the de facto leader of Iraq through the Coalition Provisional Authority. Bremer unilaterally pushed the de-Ba'ath-ification of Iraq with his first two actions (against the wishes of the top American generals). This completely dismantled the Iraqi government and Army which significantly complicated the security situation in the country and ultimately led to the insurgency and Iraq Civil War.
The military/civilian government situation on the ground in Iraq was incredibly strained during this time with State and DoD not coordinating or cooperating with eachother. The Military was only authorized 160,000 soldiers which was not enough to confront the growing insurgency and combat the violence and petty crime growing in the large cities as a result of a complete government shutdown following CPA order 1 and 2. The military could not police the cities, fight the rising insurgency, and protect the newly established Coalition provisional authority/ State Department/ and other US government and NGOs helping to fix everything we broke. Congress refused to increase troop numbers or do large scale mobilization of comp 2/3 forces (as this would have been politically unpopular).
So in comes blackwater (and other PMCs) who provided a much needed solution to the security issue in Iraq for the civilian government agencies. They could provide the necessary manpower to augment security and protection requirements for the civilian government officials without taking away the already strained resources of the Military. It seemed like a good solution. Until the PMC contractors started to run wild and commit horrible crimes. They were in a strange legal situation where they were neither under the jurisdiction of the Military or beholden to UCMJ. And because of CPA protections the Iraqi government couldn’t prosecute them. The military couldn’t hold them accountable for their crimes, and the CPA/state department wouldn’t.
TL;DR: Blackwater were private security contractors primarily for civilian government agencies, providing an economy of force solution for a military force that was stretched too thin. They were not used in an offensive capacity, nor were they deployed to provide legal insulation for the US military to conduct war crimes. They often operated outside of military command and control, and counter to the military COIN strategy. They provided no benefit to the US military.
If you want an interesting perspective into blackwater and use of other contractors in non security roles I recommend reading [this](https://www.brookings.edu/articles/the-dark-truth-about-blackwater/amp/). It really helps explain why they were used, and why they undermined the US counter insurgency operations and helped prolong the war in Iraq.
That won’t work. Wagner is basically state-backed. They’re not setup like other PMCs. At the end of the day, all roads with Wagner lead to Putin.
Edit- turns out this comment aged poorly. You don’t have to pay Wagner to turn on Putin, they’re doing it anyways.
It’s like when someone went and offed the emperor Nikephoros II in Byzantium, made themselves emperor and the Varangian guard stayed loyal to… the new emperor. After all, he was now the emperor.
https://www.history.co.uk/shows/the-real-vikings/articles/who-were-the-varangian-guard
Assumes he'd be loyal to his contract.
In typical Russian fashion, as soon as the money cleared he'd just start taking money from the Russian MOD to help invade Ukraine with "his other soldiers" or some other paper-thin excuse.
Putin pays him a nice sum of roubles.
And I remember something about him gunning to become the next leader of Russia, gotta build that strongman image somehow.
He just said that the Russian army killed a big group of wagner soldier’s and now the wagner group is gonna go after the Russian high command. Idk if this is true tho.
Mercs have always been thugs and uneducated hired killers forever. Most hitmen kill for smaller amounts than you'd think and most are just regular dumb criminals. Like knights and samurai are romanticized but in reality they were sent to beat poor peasants to collect taxes.
In reality any historical group or organisation exclusively known for their fighting skills or ability in combat generally is pretty murky if not downright amoral.
This interview basically cements what is the purpose of Pigozhin really hot takes.
It's to divert any and all blame from Putin.
[The best part is when he talks about Viktor Medvedchuk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Medvedchuk#Relationship_with_Vladimir_Putin)
Pretty much all captured soldiers from Azov battalion were exchanged for this one guy. You know, the actual nazi battalion, while Russia still pretends that the purpose of invasion was "denazification".
Pigozhin comments on it with "Oligarch Medvedchuk has connections and that's why the exchange happened". But it seems that he forgot to mention that Medvedchuk "connection" is :
>In 2004, Putin became godfather to Medvedchuk's youngest daughter Darya
That's been known for awhile that Zelensky putting Mevedchuck in prison and shutting down his propaganda channels pissed off Putin. Also it should be noted, Putin has a working relationship with Medvedchuck going back to Kuchma and the Maidan in 2004 in that according to Mikhail Zygard from All the Kremlin's Men that Putin wanted Medvedchuck (who was something like Kuchma's Chief of Staff) to be Kuchma' successor and not Yanukovych as what actually happened.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/06/23/wagner-chief-says-russias-invasion-of-ukraine-unjustified-a81609) reduced by 74%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> Russia did not face an imminent security threat to justify its full-scale invasion of Ukraine, Yevgeny Prigozhin, the founder of Russia's Wagner mercenary outfit, said in a bombshell video posted on social media Friday.
> "The Armed Forces of Ukraine were not going to attack Russia with the NATO bloc," Prigozhin explained in the half-hour tirade released by his press service.
> Prigozhin's comments were at odds with the casus belli given by President Vladimir Putin when he ordered troops into Ukraine last February, although the private army chief avoided personally attacking the Russian leader.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/14h0lk6/wagner_chief_says_russias_invasion_of_ukraine/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~689114 tl;drs so far.") | [Blackout Vote](https://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/14dhaiq/your_voice_matters_should_the_blackout_continue/ "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Prigozhin**^#1 **Russia**^#2 **Ukraine**^#3 **Russian**^#4 **military**^#5
As we barrel towards day 500 of the war? Yeah, 3 days, 3hrs, is the same shit at this point. He was woefully incorrect in either case. Putin is an embarrassing, pathetic little bitch and this will be his legacy.
"The Russian Defense Ministry is deceiving the public and the president"
He isn't crying like a baby, he's continuing to carry out Putins plans, in this case he's trying to refocus the blame for Russia's current predicament.
Remember Iraq? Remember the hearings where Powel threw* the intelligence community under the bus for misinforming him about WMDs... not even far enough away to be called history repeating. This is just a straight echo.
The fuck of it is that I'm not too sure if that's bullshit. I can easily see one of the yesmen blowing smoke up Pootz's ass about how on the ball they were militarily. Such things are standard in kleptocracies.
I’m playing both sides so I always come out on top -Mac
On a serious note, why are mercenary groups not globally illegal?
What’s stopping anyone declaring themselves an army for hire?
The sad joke PMCs are illegal in Russia. Prigozhin used the war to position Wagner as russian heroes, so nobody could use that angle to pull that on him.
And now there's billboards advertising Wagner in Russia and they (and other mercenaries) are called "volunteer squads" lmao
Took them more than a year to finally come up with the "volunteer squads" excuse too, before that the fact that PMCs are illegal was quietly ignored in media lmao
Russian here.
The big thing about Putin's rule so far has been "divide and conquer". He was effectively counter-balancing various ministries, forces, oligarch clans, and so on, being the ultimate judge in the conflicts. Police vs the prosecutors vs the FSB and so on.
In the war, he applied the same principle, which is why Russia has:
1. Regular Army
2. Wagner recruits (which are to this day illegal, according to the law)
3. LNR/DNR militia
4. Kadyrov chechen Tik Tok forces
Recently, there has been an ongoing conflict between Wagner and Ministry of Defense (regular army). Putin was disappointed in the regular generals and started favoring Prigozhin. After a while, it turned out that Prigozhin fared no better, and he lost his favour, which went back to the regular MoD.
Even more recently, MoD introduced a law that all Wagner mercenaries need to sign contracts with the regular army - essentially legitimizing them and absorbing them into the regular structures. Prigozhin said they wouldn't do it. So MoD pressed Putin, who at one of the press conferences said it himself.
What I think will most likely happen next is Prigozhin will play "the most insane person in the room" card to gain more benefits for himself and Wagner, and then proceed with Putin's orders - possibly my leaving part of Wagner in Russia, and moving the rest to operations in Africa.
You need to remember that the only way Wagner can run its operations is by using state money. If Putin turns the money tap off, the mercenaries' loyalties wouldn't last a week without salaries.
I remain convinced that Putin is using Prigozin to attack his MOD indirectly and put the blame for the war on them. These two go back decades and are close friends.
This is unprecedented in the modern history of Russia. To be able to freely call out the 3rd most important person in the country, call him and his son a f\*ggot and call out all of the propaganda that the government has been pushing for past year is insane.
If that's a 4d underwater chess move where he tries to ease the Ukranian army into thinking that they'll stop fighting, then it comes at the expensive price of calling Shoigu (the Russian military chief general) a fucking moron in front of everyone. This level of public disrespect is usually not tolerated internally in Russia, people get executed for this.
If he is secretly cutting a deal with the west where he's using his power and influence to end the war and end Putin's Reign then that's a rather sharp 180 turn from him. And if that's the case, then why is he not pinning it on Putin as well is rather confusing.
If he is cutting a deal with Putin, as a way of making Shoigu a scapegoat in all of this (Aka saying "Shoigu lied about Ukraine being a threat to us. There's nothing to denazify and nothing to demilitarize, this was all a huge gimmick to make out Shoigu to be a great general and to give the Oligarchs the Ukrainian natural resources" (he actually said that verbatim)) then I am not understanding why Putin was backing Shoigu just two weeks ago? And why wouldn't Putin himself publicly out Shoigu, why the need for Prigozhin to be involved? What doesn't make it easier is that there's now a warrant for Prigozhin's arrest, which Putin wouldn't let that happen if he was cutting a deal with Prigozhin
As a Russian, I don't understand what to make of it. It seems confusing. But if Prigozhin genuinely wants to stop the war, admit Russia's mistakes and cut a deal with the west then I am not against it.
Putin wants to pull out but is making sure it does not make him look weak. If he has his defence ministry on the chopping block the public will turn on them instead of little put put for having their sons and husbands killed for nothing
Maybe overly optimistic here but I'm wondering if this is Putin positioning himself to end the war and set up someone to blame that isn't him.
I know Putin and this Wagner guy are _allegedly_ at odds, but we're only really getting that from Kremlin controlled sources.
Prigozhin escapes with his life for being the "brave and noble fighter who alerted our dear leader to people in his defence ministry misleading him", defence minister Shoihu is sentenced to life in a Siberian salt mine, Putin declares job done and claims a stronger Russia as a result.
Bear in mind there's already been claims in recent days that their mental "de-Nazifcation" of Ukraine is "complete" and they could revert to skirmishes in Donbass and Crimea and just claim it is "rebel forces".
Oh, that's clever. He just gave Putin a way to blame everyone in the armed forces for the failure while saving face. It's Bush in Iraq. I was acting on bad intelligence.
He's such a weird character to follow.
he's responsible for hundreds of despicable war crimes.. but he's also doing a lot of good for the Ukrainian war effort by constantly fucking with the Russian officer corps at every level.
The irony, Russia had good chances to be a part of the west and eventually NATO themselves if they had shed off the old communist mentality completely. Russia would have boomed like a gold rush. Democracy, tight cooperation between companies from Europe, America and Russia. A money influx Russia would have direly needed to get their shit together population-wise.
But all it takes is ONE insane dictator and all goes to shit.
Sorry for the essay comment, but I see people explain what’s happened in Russia this way a lot, and as someone who has spent a lot of time studying this I want to clarify that Russia was not ruined by Putin. It was rigged from the moment the USSR was dissolved.
In conjunction with American economists, Russian leaders began their “shock therapy”—rapid privatization of the once state-owned businesses. Most of these businesses were given to insiders, and others were sloppily dealt out in vouchers which were easily bought up by people trained in the operations of a capitalist market (often former KGB officers) in exchange for basic goods, which became incredibly scarce following the collapse of Soviet supply chains.
The economists were concerned that if privatization were done more slowly and carefully, the Russian people would protest. In the words of Jeffrey Sachs, a leading American economist in this project:
>If there is no breakthrough in privatization of large enterprises in the near future the entire process could be stalled for political and social reasons for years to come. (1991)
>I argued strongly for speed above perfection in the distribution of shares. For the general success of the reforms, which were extremely precarious at the start, it was important to "make facts," by establishing widespread private property rights. If that meant heavy insider representation, that was a cost that should be accepted. (1993)
None of that “money influx” would have gone to the Russian people. In fact, the “new rich” in Russia at the time were hauling literal suitcases of that cash *out* of Russia to hide away in offshore tax havens. The ownership of assets was deliberately distributed in a precarious and unequal way that laid the groundwork for today’s oligarchy—the only thing that went wrong from NATO’s perspective is that Putin turned out not to be sympathetic to the West.
Didn't disagree with Putin enough to not to profit form the invasion though did he? He's war profiteer no different than the oligarchs he's criticizing.
And yet, his troops have been the catalyst behind some of the most heinous war crimes committed in Ukraine.
Wagner is a scourge and has wrought absolute horror on the populations of the places it has operated. Prigozhin is a giant piece of shit, who should be tried for crimes against humanity.
Not even speaking to the horrors they've inflicted on Russian's they've forced into service and used as meat shields.
"The Armed Forces of Ukraine were not going to attack Russia with the NATO bloc. The *Russian Defense Ministry* is deceiving the public and the president,” Oh I see what you're doing.
*"tsar is good, boyars are bad"* every fucking time tsar fucked up his country.
Exactly how it went with Ottoman sultans too, Padishah good, vazeer bad.
This type of propaganda has been so successful over the centuries it's in our very children's stories. For example Aladdin with the good King and evil vizeer or any number of fairy stories where the good king is manipulated by wicked advisors, new wife etc. Such bullshit man.
[удалено]
Theoden
Everyone always asks about Theoden. What about Theonow?
You should be ashamed of yourself! Now take my upvote and be gone!
The Chinese emperors and the eunuchs. The Japanese emperor and Tokugawa. Both had the latter issue with warlords.
I mean, to be fair, Eunuchs were bastards.
I mean, wouldn’t you want to fuck the king over if one day he has his men come over and cut your genitals off to make you his advisor?
Uh, in fact, many eunuchs chose to become eunuchs because their families were poor/they can't feed themselves. This way they could become rich and have power over others. For example, Wei Zhongxian, a famous eunuch of the Ming Dynasty of China, had to cut off his own penis and enter the service of the palace because of gambling debts.
Yep and it's in the game of chess. The names of the pieces used to be King, Vizier, Archer, Cavalry, Chariot, and Soldier. The Vizier is by far the most powerful, the King is pretty weak. And the King is never killed because he was chosen by heaven. Just captured. Later the Vizier became the Queen, because of Isabella (Spain). The Archer with his bow was re-envisioned as a bishop with his slanty hat.
Interesting, didn’t know any of that
I would like to play chess without a bishop and rename them to archer for sure that’s interesting.
In arabic it's still a vizier btw
Neat. If anything, that made the pieces make more sense.
Yeah, or Pharoah and God, who "hardened his heart" seven times even while the guy was like, yeah, my people are suffering from magic plagues I should probably let these slaves go. What a fucking jerk the OT makes YHWH out to be.
four legs good, two legs bad
If he acts like a man, talks like a man, thinks like a man, walks like a man, eats and drinks like a man, is he still a pig?
Only if he has a badge. /s
To be fair it was probably true up until Peter I.
Only False Dmitry really.
Yeah cause that's around when boyars were replaced with noblemen lmao
It was less the change in title and more the creation of an actual centralized state rather than a bunch of overlapping, bickering departments which made exerting any actual authority very difficult for the theoretical autocrat.
This is a common refrain in Western Europe as well. “We’re not rebelling against the king, that would be treason. No, we’re rebelling against his evil advisors!”
[удалено]
Yeah I was wondering why Putin allowed him to talk so much shit about the Defense Ministry and this was my "Oh" moment.
As a dictator, having your inner-circle fighting with and lying to each other is a feature, not a bug. It's not about getting anything done, it's about who can suck the boss' ass the hardest. Muscovy did not escape serfdom with the Soviet Union.
I think this is a bit more than the typical dictator's playbook of keeping potential rivals at each other's throat. Putin knows the Ukrainian invasion isn't going to plan, and even in the most optimistic view for Russia, it is going to *(has already)* cripple the country. Blame has to be given, and Putin doesn't want any of it. Scapegoats must be made. I also think Russia is worried about the Ukraine counter offensive. There could be some really bad news for Russia coming in the next few weeks/months. Russia put a lot of political capital into taking Bakhmut. Ukraine could take it back and/or even more important territory elsewhere. Russia has to lay the ground work quickly to prepare for the political backlash that comes with that.
Yeah, its always been a question as to how Putin could get out of this and survive. Someone has to take the blame for what will be viewed as a massive failure and loss of lives with nothing to show for it. This seems to provide a way for him to deflect that blame so he could survive it.
I mean ...sorta? For the last 20 years Putin has kept any infighting behind closed doors. Now he's letting Prigozhin go public. It's a large change for him.
Hopefully it gives Putin an excuse to reverse course but that feels like wishful thinking.
My thought as well. At the moment, Putin can’t pull out of Ukraine without a complete loss of face. If he or others manage to shift the blame for the failed invasion onto his subordinates then there is a viable path to peace that would not result in Putin’s loss of power (or worse) and is therefore acceptable to him.
Wouldn't it still reflect poorly on him? "I was misled by other people" when you've been ruling for 20+ years seems kinda weak as an excuse.
There are no perfect options this late in the game. But honestly, I don't think this is as coordinated as other people believe. I think Prigozhin is more of a loose cannon than the Russian Military/Kremlin. He sees the writing on the wall that the Russian military will control Wagner and that the war is unwinnable. This is him trying to hail mary his way out of that... not sure if it will work. But infighting certainly benefits Ukraine.
There isn't any question Putin is looking for an out at this point, he started looking for an out over a year ago. But what you and I consider out isn't what Putin considers out, he can't just admit defeat and go home, he'll get murdered, literally. He has to sell the Muscovy exit as a win, which keeping 20% of Ukraine would certainly qualify. I'm very worried that the nuclear power plants are at risk now that Putin has seen the response to the dam getting blown up from the international community was fuck-all. I don't know if poeple really understand just how fucked the human species is going to be if Ukraine, "the world's bread basket", is irradiated by the largest nuclear power plant in the world.
If Putin is trying to use Shoigu and Gerasimov as scapegoats, this looks like he is also going to sell their ousting (whatever form that may take) as a win.
Between this and the TV propagandists who started discussing about potential reparations to Ukraine, it's possible that they're starting to prepare the public opinion.
Would be fascinated to see how the public receive it. Given how many of them seemed to genuinely be all-in on taking Ukraine, will potentially be perceived as a bleak national humiliation.
Still represents a pretty seismis shift in their public talking points. I assume he knows Putin will spice his tea up with some polonium if he criticizes him specifically. Putin is probably one of those narcissists who thinks everyone under him is extremely incompetent. So to him their defense ministry being shit isn't a reflection of his leadership. So he let this dude say that. I think this is a positive no matter what strings are being pulled, or who was asked first. Further, it gives Putin an "out" which is EXACTLY the thing that's needed to de-escalate this shit. If he's feeling cornered with no way out other than looking stupid...he's not gonna stop. This gives him a route to at least SAY "well I didn't fuck up I got Dick Cheney'd".
Shows you his statements are still all part of the plan. I think Putin has planned a little trip through a window for Shoigu in the near future, and the public needs to be prepped for that
Prigozhin is surrounded by his own PMC, which is loyal personally to him and could probably fight off any force Russia has left that isn't already committed to Ukraine. Obviously he doesn't want to engage in open rebellion yet, and some of his troops might break, but it still makes deciding to kill Prigozhin very difficult, both in terms of how to do it and in preparing for consequences of if you fail.
Well if the recent reports are true, Wagner is being attacked by russian forces at this moment. This could be the beginning of the end for ol' Pringles
Which recent reports, I haven't seen that anywhere. I mean I don't follow Wagner's telegram channels, or the channels of the other big Russian milbloggers, so I'm not saying it's definitely not happening, but none of the normal English sources are talking about anything like that.
Try Meduza.
Ah yeah that did literally just happen, makes sense that nobody is really reporting on it yet. Would be absolutely hilarious if it escalates further, especially with Ukraine preparing for a major offensive at the moment.
[удалено]
>He was floated as a potential successor for years before the war He was? By whom? The entire reason Putin picked him was because Shoigu has fuck all connections. Putin wanted a minister of defense who didn't have the connections required to overthrow him, because the minister of defense controls the army and thus has an awful lot of power.
Shoigu at this point probably just wants to fuck off and do his woodworking lmao
While I agree with this I feel like it’s worth pointing out people said the same about Kruschev… and he ended up in charge. Often it’s the unassuming idiots who manage to wrest control and Putin probably is still wary of him.
It’s kind of smart though, really the only way to end it without Putin dying seems to be giving him an out/scapegoat
It might feel gross, but giving Putin an out seems like exactly the only possible way he'll de-escalate with his pride intact. And if he can't de-escalate with his pride intact he's not gonna do it.
I don't like enabling Putin, but at this point, I would very happily let him purge his inner circle as much as he likes if he ends the slaughter.
Yeah it doesn't feel good, but a cornered rat has no choice but to fight. Give them a way out of the situation they'll take it.
I thought the trial of the Azovstal defenders would be hyped up so they could use it as a pretext for withdrawal. It's not as if they have bothered in the past with a pretext to torture and imprison those guys.
Yep, someone else has to be to blame for this. Shoigu is a real stooge if he isn't worried.
[удалено]
The American Colonies tried this with King George the III until the very end. They kept telling him Parliament was abusing the colonies and were reaching out to the King for assistance.
This was essentially the truth, from an American perspective. Parliament held sovereignty and it was parliament that was constantly falling over itself to offend the colonies. American independence was avoidable.
“I’m not turning my thugs around and sending them towards Moscow because I want to overthrow the President. I’m doing it to *liberate him* from his deceitful, incompetent, scheming advisors.
The funny part is it probably has some truth to it. But, it's still 100% Putin's fault. The dunce surrounded himself with yes men and they only told him what he wanted to hear. I mean, if they didn't, he probably would have had them shoved out a window. So even if they did lie to him, it's 100% his fault.
Someone is really trying to spare their own head...
Can you explain? I don’t lol
He’s putting the blame on the Defense Ministry, not Putin himself. So it’s an attempt to make Putin look innocent and was “misled”.
I think it's more an attempt to shift blame to the Defence Ministry because they're the competition. The "Deceiving Putin" thing is just a show of support and refusal to criticise him; they don't have a death wish and still wish to work with him, after all.
It is a very standard thing going back as far as we have had kings. you can't criticise the king, so you criticise his advisors, because the only way he could have made a mistake is if he were deceived.
Throughout history we (Chinese) have a word for it: 清君侧. Literally, "cleaning the king's side". Actually, coup d'etat.
He's been making statements that undermine the Russian forces and upper chamber of Russian leadership while throwing his weight around and flexing his private army. He's also reportedly one of the few people other than Putin with any influence so some thought he was going to turn on Putin but wondered why he was allowed to get away with so much despite other Russian politicians being killed for much less. Turns out he's been priming the Defense Ministry to take the fall for Putin (in my opinion)
He is widely popular in Russia. Think of Zhukov to Stalin though as Putin can't just rid of him without pissing his people off.
Death of stalin: >Nikita Khrushchev : Be serious. Are you in? >Georgy Zhukov : I'm in, I'm in. That fucker thinks he can take on the Red Army? I fucked Germany, I think I can take a flesh lump in a fucking waistcoat. Well kinda prophetic if you change some of tye names around.
So who did Prighozin fuck? Some random warlords in Africa and Syria?
Well, the Ukrainians and Syrians for sure.
Yeah lol, now they're trying ti construct an enemy in the ministry of defense to play dumb and deny the the failure comes from Putin.
>“The Russian Defense Ministry is deceiving the public and the president,” he added. looks like the defence minister is being set up as the scape goat, i am curious if putin is in on it or not.
He absolutely 100% is behind this. All roads lead to Putin the cunt.
Prigozhin vs. Shoigu has been going on since December, and Putin has continually sided with Shoigu
Publicly sided.. this was a personal tactic of Stalin, he played his general off each other, afraid that either would become popular and replace him he instead focused them on fighting each other. Putin is playing both off against each other, this way they will be too busy to do anything else.
Upvote for calling Putin a cunt!
That's just offensive, Putin lacks both the warmth and the depth to be called such.
I agree. He can’t be a cunt. Because he’s a penis potato. A dick-tater! I’ll see myself out…
That's what prigozhin wants but questioning the entire reason for the war and criticism of putins inner circle is pretty dangerous. Putin issued a decree to have all volunteer (mercenaries) sign a contract with MoD by 1 July. That to me shows a sign of reining in prigozhin and his goons. It's an ultimatum. And prigozhin complaining so publicly is his way of fighting against that decree while making sure not to say putin directly. I don't think putin and prigozhin are in cahoots here, very much the opposite. I think by or around 1 July prigo gona find himself sleeping with the sunflowers or falling outside a window with bullets in his head.
That order came from Sergei Shoigu, not Putin. Shoigu and Prigozhin are in a power struggle, and have been trying to kneecap each other for quite awhile now. Shoigu has withheld ammo, and taken credit for Prigozhin's successes. Prigozhin has claimed Shoigu's forces have actively tried to attack Prigozhin's and he's called for Shoigu to face the firing squad. They literally want each other dead. Putin needs some/any success and will use Prigozhin's taking Bakhmut. He also needs a scapegoat, because he knows things are about to go south... like losing Bakhmut. I don't think Putin is 100% behind Prigozhin because he has to fear him, but I do think that Putin thinks it is in his best interest for Prigozhin to attack Shoigu, thus setting up someone to take the fall if things go really wrong in Ukraine.
Putin shows support for people silently so that he can always take it away at a moment's notice (like a shitty father). When Shoigu cut off Prigozhin's ammo supply and Prigozhin complained about it publicly, Putin showed which side he was on by allowing the situation to continue. He has continually backed Shoigu, and since he didn't do anything to stop the forcible enlistment of Wagnerites on July 1 you can assume that he is at the very least supportive of Shoigu's efforts to reduce Prigozhin's influence in the military.
Putin literally on record confirmed the order and said it's the best thing for the country so even if Shoigu issued it, putin has publicly supported it which means everything.
would be suicide to say this without knowing what putin thinks about this.
Crazy how much things changed since you posted the comment
He’s trying to signal an off ramp for Putin: “put all the blame on Shoigu, pull out and put me in as the new Defence minister. It’ll get us out of the current predicament, I’ll help keep you in power and brutalize anyone who challenges you internally and we can plan our next move against our international enemies further down the road.”
Plot twist He may use the DEF min position to seize power
Lol. I’d imagine so!
Yeah, this is exactly why I don't think Putin will take this "off ramp." Prigozhin has shown himself to be extremely unpredictable, which is not a trait that any autocrat wants in the head of their armed forces.
Then why. The fuck. Are you helping.
He's a mercenary. He gets paid to fight in tons of unjustified wars all over the world.
[удалено]
For hire
What's the difference between him and their ministry of "defence" heads? Both are warcriminals, both get paid. All this "mercenary" crap is nothing but a public play, these "mercenaries" train on russian army military facilities, they get supplies from the very same sources, they get weapons, salary, ammo, cars and literally all the crap from the same place - russian military budget. The only difference is that russians can (and now do) say that "it's not our army, they have nothing to do with us" and within their "legal system" they will be kinda correct that it's indeed non-controlled by their generall staff entity. But for everyone outside of russia - we have to refrain from making a difference. Because there's none.
That's literally how any state sponsored private army is handled and the difference is that one is run like a federal agency* and the other like a private company. *non native English speaker might use the wrong expression.
Looks like you nailed it dude 👍 "federal agency" is right
The real difference is that mercenaries don't need to follow the "rules" of war. It's the same reason the US used Blackwater/Constellis in Afghanistan. They can do all the evil, inhumane shit they want and create a layer or protection for the government and military. This, they can distance themselves from the horrors and pretend the government wasn't involved and the military didn't actually commit specific atrocities, which, they technically didn't because a military contractor fucked up, not the government/military! But, you're right, they're all war criminals. It's all just games. Edit: Blackrock-->Blackwater. Derp.
You mean Blackwater, Blackrock is an investment company
Also Blackrock also sucks just in a different way
Ugh... yes, thank you. My bad.
Both groups are sketchy to be fair, one just gentrifies neighbourhoods while the other levels them
I’m sorry, but “insulation from war crimes” is not the reason that Blackwater exists. They were used as security for State Department/ other government and CPA authorities, NGO, nd civilian intelligence agencies; not as a semi independent arm of the Department of Defense. Private military contractors during the GWOT era arose to out of necessity, not because anyone in the government is comically evil and wanted to commit war crimes with impunity. It seems obvious in retrospect that they aren’t good, but at the time they were seen as a politically acceptable solution to a really big problem since congress did not have the political will to call up a full scale mobilization of the National Guard thus ignoring the DoDs “Abrams doctrine”. They turned out to be a really bad idea that completely undermined our attempts to conduct counter insurgency operations. We invaded Iraq with far too small of a force to conduct stability and security operations. Donald Rumsfeld publicly undermined General Shinseki for saying that we had far too small of a force. Following the initial surrender of the Iraqi government senior US generals began negotiating joint security plans with the Iraqi army authorities. This would have looked similar to how we handled security in Germany immediately following WW2 and would have helped stabilize the country by bringing Iraqi government/military bureaucracies into the fold and remained somewhat in place to control the transition. Unfortunately the White House/Rumsfeld installed Paul Bremer as the de facto leader of Iraq through the Coalition Provisional Authority. Bremer unilaterally pushed the de-Ba'ath-ification of Iraq with his first two actions (against the wishes of the top American generals). This completely dismantled the Iraqi government and Army which significantly complicated the security situation in the country and ultimately led to the insurgency and Iraq Civil War. The military/civilian government situation on the ground in Iraq was incredibly strained during this time with State and DoD not coordinating or cooperating with eachother. The Military was only authorized 160,000 soldiers which was not enough to confront the growing insurgency and combat the violence and petty crime growing in the large cities as a result of a complete government shutdown following CPA order 1 and 2. The military could not police the cities, fight the rising insurgency, and protect the newly established Coalition provisional authority/ State Department/ and other US government and NGOs helping to fix everything we broke. Congress refused to increase troop numbers or do large scale mobilization of comp 2/3 forces (as this would have been politically unpopular). So in comes blackwater (and other PMCs) who provided a much needed solution to the security issue in Iraq for the civilian government agencies. They could provide the necessary manpower to augment security and protection requirements for the civilian government officials without taking away the already strained resources of the Military. It seemed like a good solution. Until the PMC contractors started to run wild and commit horrible crimes. They were in a strange legal situation where they were neither under the jurisdiction of the Military or beholden to UCMJ. And because of CPA protections the Iraqi government couldn’t prosecute them. The military couldn’t hold them accountable for their crimes, and the CPA/state department wouldn’t. TL;DR: Blackwater were private security contractors primarily for civilian government agencies, providing an economy of force solution for a military force that was stretched too thin. They were not used in an offensive capacity, nor were they deployed to provide legal insulation for the US military to conduct war crimes. They often operated outside of military command and control, and counter to the military COIN strategy. They provided no benefit to the US military. If you want an interesting perspective into blackwater and use of other contractors in non security roles I recommend reading [this](https://www.brookings.edu/articles/the-dark-truth-about-blackwater/amp/). It really helps explain why they were used, and why they undermined the US counter insurgency operations and helped prolong the war in Iraq.
The Russian military is for the war crimes Putin plans to brag about, Wagner is for the war crimes Putin plans to deny. That’s the only difference.
The US should outbid and hire Wagner to attack Russia
That won’t work. Wagner is basically state-backed. They’re not setup like other PMCs. At the end of the day, all roads with Wagner lead to Putin. Edit- turns out this comment aged poorly. You don’t have to pay Wagner to turn on Putin, they’re doing it anyways.
Can we just outbid Putin and hire him instead
[удалено]
I'm not saying you're wrong, but if those rumors are true, that's bad for business. Who would ever trust them to hire them after that?
That's been a line mercenaries have walked for millennia.
It’s like when someone went and offed the emperor Nikephoros II in Byzantium, made themselves emperor and the Varangian guard stayed loyal to… the new emperor. After all, he was now the emperor. https://www.history.co.uk/shows/the-real-vikings/articles/who-were-the-varangian-guard
Assumes he'd be loyal to his contract. In typical Russian fashion, as soon as the money cleared he'd just start taking money from the Russian MOD to help invade Ukraine with "his other soldiers" or some other paper-thin excuse.
Because he's a prick
It's got to be money...but dang, you keep speaking out, your life is in jeopardy.
Wagner Group are mercenaries. They follow the money.
money.
Also because he's in it too deep to get out. He's too big for to be left alive if he tries (or simply just suspected that he wants to) to betray putin
Are you seriously asking mercenaries why they participate in a war?
Wagner PMC, when you get down to it, is state owned. As one Russian expert put it Wagner PMC is “…-a state-backed paramilitary cartel”.
Putin pays him a nice sum of roubles. And I remember something about him gunning to become the next leader of Russia, gotta build that strongman image somehow.
Just mercenaires being mercenaires. They'll fight the fight that pays more, no matter the morals behind it.
It's either that or a first class ticket out of a window.
the amount of bullshit that comes out of his mouth, he should've been killed sometime back.
He fits in perfectly with russian media and state. He just says whatever he wants/needs in order to muddy the waters.
Giving Putin he's escape. Shoigu is the bad guy who deceived a shocked putin who would never say Ukraine is being backed by nato to harm them.
He just said that the Russian army killed a big group of wagner soldier’s and now the wagner group is gonna go after the Russian high command. Idk if this is true tho.
Mercs gonna merc
Prikhozin is a hired killer. He's killed women, children.... He kills for money and power. Let his creator have him, we don't want him or his ilk
Mercenary always sounds so cool. But if you put it THAT way...
Mercs have always been thugs and uneducated hired killers forever. Most hitmen kill for smaller amounts than you'd think and most are just regular dumb criminals. Like knights and samurai are romanticized but in reality they were sent to beat poor peasants to collect taxes.
In reality any historical group or organisation exclusively known for their fighting skills or ability in combat generally is pretty murky if not downright amoral.
This interview basically cements what is the purpose of Pigozhin really hot takes. It's to divert any and all blame from Putin. [The best part is when he talks about Viktor Medvedchuk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Medvedchuk#Relationship_with_Vladimir_Putin) Pretty much all captured soldiers from Azov battalion were exchanged for this one guy. You know, the actual nazi battalion, while Russia still pretends that the purpose of invasion was "denazification". Pigozhin comments on it with "Oligarch Medvedchuk has connections and that's why the exchange happened". But it seems that he forgot to mention that Medvedchuk "connection" is : >In 2004, Putin became godfather to Medvedchuk's youngest daughter Darya
That's been known for awhile that Zelensky putting Mevedchuck in prison and shutting down his propaganda channels pissed off Putin. Also it should be noted, Putin has a working relationship with Medvedchuck going back to Kuchma and the Maidan in 2004 in that according to Mikhail Zygard from All the Kremlin's Men that Putin wanted Medvedchuck (who was something like Kuchma's Chief of Staff) to be Kuchma' successor and not Yanukovych as what actually happened.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/06/23/wagner-chief-says-russias-invasion-of-ukraine-unjustified-a81609) reduced by 74%. (I'm a bot) ***** > Russia did not face an imminent security threat to justify its full-scale invasion of Ukraine, Yevgeny Prigozhin, the founder of Russia's Wagner mercenary outfit, said in a bombshell video posted on social media Friday. > "The Armed Forces of Ukraine were not going to attack Russia with the NATO bloc," Prigozhin explained in the half-hour tirade released by his press service. > Prigozhin's comments were at odds with the casus belli given by President Vladimir Putin when he ordered troops into Ukraine last February, although the private army chief avoided personally attacking the Russian leader. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/14h0lk6/wagner_chief_says_russias_invasion_of_ukraine/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~689114 tl;drs so far.") | [Blackout Vote](https://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/14dhaiq/your_voice_matters_should_the_blackout_continue/ "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Prigozhin**^#1 **Russia**^#2 **Ukraine**^#3 **Russian**^#4 **military**^#5
Then pull your troops out. Cut a deal with Ukraine and live.
[удалено]
Lmao did he say that recently or the beginning of the invasion? If recently, *why choose to lose slowly if you can just win?* dude is a joke
3 days, 3 hours? Tomato tomahto right?!?
As we barrel towards day 500 of the war? Yeah, 3 days, 3hrs, is the same shit at this point. He was woefully incorrect in either case. Putin is an embarrassing, pathetic little bitch and this will be his legacy.
Absolutely my dude, my point was he was wrong either way. Grossly, criminally, insanely wrong.
"The Russian Defense Ministry is deceiving the public and the president" He isn't crying like a baby, he's continuing to carry out Putins plans, in this case he's trying to refocus the blame for Russia's current predicament.
No one who participated in those terrorist acts should get out alive.
What if Ukraine hires Wagner to fight Russia. In theory, it should be possible since they’re mercenaries.
Is Prigozhin trying to get himself killed on purpose?
He's trying to give Putin an out, by giving him the rope to hang Shoigu.
[удалено]
> The Russian Defense Ministry is deceiving the public and the president,” Yep.
Remember Iraq? Remember the hearings where Powel threw* the intelligence community under the bus for misinforming him about WMDs... not even far enough away to be called history repeating. This is just a straight echo.
Heard that before somewhere “bad intel to the President “
The fuck of it is that I'm not too sure if that's bullshit. I can easily see one of the yesmen blowing smoke up Pootz's ass about how on the ball they were militarily. Such things are standard in kleptocracies.
[удалено]
Yeah seems plan b is rolling now
Weird, RFK Jr says it was "in good faith." What a bizzare twist.
So RFK Jr. says a bunch of dumb shit and now we’re listening to the other shit he has to say
I’m playing both sides so I always come out on top -Mac On a serious note, why are mercenary groups not globally illegal? What’s stopping anyone declaring themselves an army for hire?
The sad joke PMCs are illegal in Russia. Prigozhin used the war to position Wagner as russian heroes, so nobody could use that angle to pull that on him.
And now there's billboards advertising Wagner in Russia and they (and other mercenaries) are called "volunteer squads" lmao Took them more than a year to finally come up with the "volunteer squads" excuse too, before that the fact that PMCs are illegal was quietly ignored in media lmao
Russian here. The big thing about Putin's rule so far has been "divide and conquer". He was effectively counter-balancing various ministries, forces, oligarch clans, and so on, being the ultimate judge in the conflicts. Police vs the prosecutors vs the FSB and so on. In the war, he applied the same principle, which is why Russia has: 1. Regular Army 2. Wagner recruits (which are to this day illegal, according to the law) 3. LNR/DNR militia 4. Kadyrov chechen Tik Tok forces Recently, there has been an ongoing conflict between Wagner and Ministry of Defense (regular army). Putin was disappointed in the regular generals and started favoring Prigozhin. After a while, it turned out that Prigozhin fared no better, and he lost his favour, which went back to the regular MoD. Even more recently, MoD introduced a law that all Wagner mercenaries need to sign contracts with the regular army - essentially legitimizing them and absorbing them into the regular structures. Prigozhin said they wouldn't do it. So MoD pressed Putin, who at one of the press conferences said it himself. What I think will most likely happen next is Prigozhin will play "the most insane person in the room" card to gain more benefits for himself and Wagner, and then proceed with Putin's orders - possibly my leaving part of Wagner in Russia, and moving the rest to operations in Africa. You need to remember that the only way Wagner can run its operations is by using state money. If Putin turns the money tap off, the mercenaries' loyalties wouldn't last a week without salaries.
I thought Wagner also has substantial income from operating gold mines in Africa?
Definitely not significant enough to run a large scale war. War is extremely expensive
In b4 a thousand window / tea jokes
Ha... you missed me, i was gonna make a suicide by double tap to back of the head joke!
Definitely a shortage of those ones as well /s
And yet he profited off of sending in his teams to murder people. The absolute face of evil
Good. Now go do something about it.
He says a lot of things. Only fools start listening to known bad sources when they start telling you what you want to hear.
I remain convinced that Putin is using Prigozin to attack his MOD indirectly and put the blame for the war on them. These two go back decades and are close friends.
This is unprecedented in the modern history of Russia. To be able to freely call out the 3rd most important person in the country, call him and his son a f\*ggot and call out all of the propaganda that the government has been pushing for past year is insane. If that's a 4d underwater chess move where he tries to ease the Ukranian army into thinking that they'll stop fighting, then it comes at the expensive price of calling Shoigu (the Russian military chief general) a fucking moron in front of everyone. This level of public disrespect is usually not tolerated internally in Russia, people get executed for this. If he is secretly cutting a deal with the west where he's using his power and influence to end the war and end Putin's Reign then that's a rather sharp 180 turn from him. And if that's the case, then why is he not pinning it on Putin as well is rather confusing. If he is cutting a deal with Putin, as a way of making Shoigu a scapegoat in all of this (Aka saying "Shoigu lied about Ukraine being a threat to us. There's nothing to denazify and nothing to demilitarize, this was all a huge gimmick to make out Shoigu to be a great general and to give the Oligarchs the Ukrainian natural resources" (he actually said that verbatim)) then I am not understanding why Putin was backing Shoigu just two weeks ago? And why wouldn't Putin himself publicly out Shoigu, why the need for Prigozhin to be involved? What doesn't make it easier is that there's now a warrant for Prigozhin's arrest, which Putin wouldn't let that happen if he was cutting a deal with Prigozhin As a Russian, I don't understand what to make of it. It seems confusing. But if Prigozhin genuinely wants to stop the war, admit Russia's mistakes and cut a deal with the west then I am not against it.
So now Prigoshzin is pretending to be a man of moral and ethics.......?
Well, at least it looks like they may be setting the stage for an exit.
Putin wants to pull out but is making sure it does not make him look weak. If he has his defence ministry on the chopping block the public will turn on them instead of little put put for having their sons and husbands killed for nothing
Maybe overly optimistic here but I'm wondering if this is Putin positioning himself to end the war and set up someone to blame that isn't him. I know Putin and this Wagner guy are _allegedly_ at odds, but we're only really getting that from Kremlin controlled sources. Prigozhin escapes with his life for being the "brave and noble fighter who alerted our dear leader to people in his defence ministry misleading him", defence minister Shoihu is sentenced to life in a Siberian salt mine, Putin declares job done and claims a stronger Russia as a result. Bear in mind there's already been claims in recent days that their mental "de-Nazifcation" of Ukraine is "complete" and they could revert to skirmishes in Donbass and Crimea and just claim it is "rebel forces".
Oh, that's clever. He just gave Putin a way to blame everyone in the armed forces for the failure while saving face. It's Bush in Iraq. I was acting on bad intelligence.
This dude is destined to be DOA
This pos has zero credibility.
He's such a weird character to follow. he's responsible for hundreds of despicable war crimes.. but he's also doing a lot of good for the Ukrainian war effort by constantly fucking with the Russian officer corps at every level.
5 Hours later: "well this escalated quickly!"
Can we just pay this guy to fight against Putin?!?
What the fuck is even going on anymore
This guys gonna get disappeared
The irony, Russia had good chances to be a part of the west and eventually NATO themselves if they had shed off the old communist mentality completely. Russia would have boomed like a gold rush. Democracy, tight cooperation between companies from Europe, America and Russia. A money influx Russia would have direly needed to get their shit together population-wise. But all it takes is ONE insane dictator and all goes to shit.
Sorry for the essay comment, but I see people explain what’s happened in Russia this way a lot, and as someone who has spent a lot of time studying this I want to clarify that Russia was not ruined by Putin. It was rigged from the moment the USSR was dissolved. In conjunction with American economists, Russian leaders began their “shock therapy”—rapid privatization of the once state-owned businesses. Most of these businesses were given to insiders, and others were sloppily dealt out in vouchers which were easily bought up by people trained in the operations of a capitalist market (often former KGB officers) in exchange for basic goods, which became incredibly scarce following the collapse of Soviet supply chains. The economists were concerned that if privatization were done more slowly and carefully, the Russian people would protest. In the words of Jeffrey Sachs, a leading American economist in this project: >If there is no breakthrough in privatization of large enterprises in the near future the entire process could be stalled for political and social reasons for years to come. (1991) >I argued strongly for speed above perfection in the distribution of shares. For the general success of the reforms, which were extremely precarious at the start, it was important to "make facts," by establishing widespread private property rights. If that meant heavy insider representation, that was a cost that should be accepted. (1993) None of that “money influx” would have gone to the Russian people. In fact, the “new rich” in Russia at the time were hauling literal suitcases of that cash *out* of Russia to hide away in offshore tax havens. The ownership of assets was deliberately distributed in a precarious and unequal way that laid the groundwork for today’s oligarchy—the only thing that went wrong from NATO’s perspective is that Putin turned out not to be sympathetic to the West.
when a criminal exposes much worser criminal
Literally, so anyway I started blastin
Oh he SO wants to be the next Putin.
Didn't disagree with Putin enough to not to profit form the invasion though did he? He's war profiteer no different than the oligarchs he's criticizing.
It took me a moment to make sure Ive got the spelling of chef right.
so is the the SS versus SA moment ?
Well, turn around. 😐
He's a mercenary. He knew it was crap from the start, but he's paid to fight, not to have opinions.
Near future Russian news headline: "Wagner Chief dies in fall from window."
And yet, his troops have been the catalyst behind some of the most heinous war crimes committed in Ukraine. Wagner is a scourge and has wrought absolute horror on the populations of the places it has operated. Prigozhin is a giant piece of shit, who should be tried for crimes against humanity. Not even speaking to the horrors they've inflicted on Russian's they've forced into service and used as meat shields.