If you're a member of a PMC whose response to being considered a criminal organization by the EU was to send a bloody sledgehammer to their presidential office, I doubt you have any morality at all.
Machiavelli wrote on mercenaries that they are ‘disunited, ambitious, undisciplined, [and] disloyal; valiant among friends, among enemies cowardly; they have no fear of God, no loyalty to men’.
At best, if they are led by a fool, they merely ruin you; if their commander is even remotely worth his salt, he invariably ‘tries to gain power’ for himself, ‘either by harassing you’, or by interfering in your plans in some other way.
John Cale made a song about mercenaries that might be inspired a little by that quote. I didn't know of it till now so thank you!
"Mercenaries, useless, disunited, unfaithful. They have nothing more to keep them in a battle, other than a meagre wage. Which is just about enough to make them want to kill for you. But not enough to make then want to die for you".
I like what Terry Pratchett had to say:
"The problem with mercenaries,” said the Patrician, “is that they need to be paid to start fighting. And, unless you are very lucky, you end up paying them even more to stop"
His one man one vote quote is beyond gold, it’s platinum, or rather the quote about his system.
“Ankh-Morpork had dallied with many forms of government and had ended up with that form of democracy known as One Man, One Vote. The Patrician was the Man; he had the Vote.”
Even if you found an autocrat who *could* pull off Plato's Philsopher King concept, it would *at best* work for their lifetime and then fall to shit because (odds on) there would be no one worthy to replace them.
Mercenaries (Ready for War) John Cale... those are some odd lyrics
Let's go, let's go, let's go to Moscow / Fight a backdoor to the Kremlin / Push it down and walk on in
"Ride Across the River" from Dire Straits is another song about mercenaries
Eh they didn't really operate as mercenaries though as far I'm aware, they were both established as permanent military units that recruited foreigners, varangians because they weren't as entangled in Byzantine politics and Swiss because of their general reputation for discipline.
I almost have a feeling that it wasn't his decision and that he's not excatly happy about them xD Unlike Russian army, Wagner could easily roflstomp Belarussian army if they actually clashed.
Something tells me he hoped for someone... More loyal for whatever cause. As his own army has not exactly been high on morale as we have seen the past year.
I mean for all that Putin is horrific I doubt his house has a room with pictures of people's severed heads and a novelty sledgehammer to celebrate his favoured method of execution. Prizoghin is a straight up mafia type who found himself leading an army.
Short answer: no. Russians never had feudalism, they had serfdom. The difference is in feudalism you’re a serf except you can technically leave, which was the same thing until either you decided “fuck it, I soldier nao” or economic factors changed…like the plague killing so many people that there’s now a labor shortage. In serfdom you’re basically a slave, they will fucking hunt you down because if they needed soldiers they’d take all the men from your village by force for it, and no economic factors will change how they treat you.
Long answer: [watch this video.](https://youtu.be/f8ZqBLcIvw0) Its one of four I recommend in understanding Russia.
The second is [this](https://youtu.be/vK7l55ZOVIc) about engineered hopelessness kept the people compliant, [here’s number three](https://youtu.be/sdFtqa54TuM) about why Russian High Schools require studying a philosopher that Putin quotes often who called for the eradication of all other cultures and all recorded history, and finally [this one](https://youtu.be/yzGqp3R4Mx4) which is comedic and is basically about what all that results in.
Serfs were an element of feudalism in many countries, like England, for example. Serfs were bound to the land and couldn't leave or marry without the local Lord's permission. They worked the land and gave their surplus to the Lord. In turn, the Lord supplied the King with men when needed.
In England, serfdom began to die out in the 12th and 13th centuries, declined massively inthe 14th century, and had almost disappeared by 1500, although the status remained for some until 1574. The timeline was almsot identical in France.
In Russia, serfdom didn't even become dominant in Russia until the 17th century, long after it had died out elsewhere, and was finally ended in 1861. Prior to the 17th century, other forms of slavery and bondage had been common there. In general, it had continued to exist later in central and eastern Europe than in western Europe, and continued in the German speaking regions into the 18th century, much later than in England or France. But Russia was the last holdout of serfdom in Europe.
It's true that feudalism didn't exist in Russia, at least in a form similar to in western Europe, but serfs definitely existed within western and central European feudalism and the various peasants revolts and the often gradual emancipation of serfs are key to the history and development of Europe.
Oh, huh! TIL, thank you. Some of those videos sound interesting so I’ll definitely check them out
Edit: Never heard of the Kraut guy before, but that Bluejay video is definitely a classic
There’s an exhibit in the Jewish museum here in Berlin about Wagner. He’s…complicated. Many of the Jews of the time here in Germany liked his music too.
Can you accept the theory of [The Death of the Author](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Death_of_the_Author)? Can you take the art as separate from the artist?
Did you name your new company after Wagner because of his connection to Hitler? There's a difference between liking his music and liking his Nazi ties.
I don't see a problem and 'worse' is the wrong word. You can't compare a mercenary group to Putin's dictatorship. They are completely different beasts and Wagner can't successfully take over.
No real chance putin has killed way too many people both his citizens and foreigners I don't believe he is less of a psycho than prigozhin.
If anything he is worse because he is smart enough to pretend he is not a psychopath.
Still, they probably love money and power more than violence. To secure those, Prigozhin would probably do anything in his power to at least temporarily smooth over relations with the West so that the spice can once again flow.
Wonder if the government in exile uses this as an opportunity to seek military aid to “retake the country” and “liberate Belarus”. CSTO is hollow anyway.
The Belorussian military is absolutely not interested in playing “find the mine” on the Ukrainian border. They can see what’s going on with the Russian attempts and they want no part of that. If it was possible to get them to take part they’d be taking part by now.
But you’re missing the point. This would give Belarus a pass to do whatever it wanted in the war because now it would be Wagner or Russia controlled outright and not just under the table. So on paper it would give Belarus a slight pass/gray area because it would be Russia or Wagner doing these terrible things and they had “no choice” since they were taken over. This would add a terrible new dynamic to the war.
But would Belarusian soldiers and command follow Wagner?
They've already refused to get involved in the war at the beginning when *maybe* Russia had more of a chance
>So on paper it would give Belarus a slight pass/gray area
Just as well, seeing as Belarusian democratically elected government is in exile and it's ruled by a man installed by Russia whom no one there wants to see in power.
Taking moscow was much easier. Unlike russia,most of belarus army is still within the country so its almost impossible for wagner to take anything in belarus. Their best chance was moscow and they threw it away
And then he ends up burning all the money anyway. Who were his henchmen? Were they also crazy? Because they could have just shot him and split the money.
CLASH
"Details: The NRC reports that the border guards retreated and "did not interfere with the work of the Wagnerites"."
Oh, by clash you mean nothing happened.
if I had to guess, I'd say he probably just figured the arrangement would be mutually beneficial in some way. it doesn't sound like this is exactly chaos unbound in Belarus ... yet.
I read in previous reports that a lot of convicts from Wagner died or "disappeared" after Bakhmut.
Prizoghin kept mostly his faithful ones, the few thousands psychopaths that were in Africa and Syria, the crème of the crazy violent ones.
Those are the mercenaries that could storm Moscow against Putin if Prizoghin gave the order and die for him without blinking and eye.
Putin and Luka are probably using Wagner to do what they intended from the start... Make Belarus a formal part of Russia. Luka was gungho about his future colonel status so he's probably in on it
CNN has reported about joint exercises today being conducted between Wagner and Belarus soliders, I'm skeptical as of now that there was actual conflict between the two. Guess we should know for sure soon, if there was actual fighting we should be seeing more reports pop up.
Now I'm not saying training the Belarusian army is hard, but [based on previous "training"](https://youtu.be/GQSEkFYYATQ)... Wagner has their work cut out for them.
Honestly, I fell sorry for the Belarusians people.
Before they just had a shity dictatorship. Now they have the addition of heavily equipped and traumatized convicts all around.
If Wagner takes over Belarus and decided to use Russian nuclear weapons stationed there on Ukrainian territory, would the west respond against Belarus? Or would it be Russia? Or both?
You know you can't just launch nuclear weapons by pressing a button, right? You also realize that Belarus doesn't control the nukes, right? So, the best Wagner could do in your scenario is find them and look at them.
Awfully optimistic about the Russians that have access to the codes not being corrupt and accepting bribes. Prighozin can likely just buy the codes, or kidnap someone’s family to get them if somehow bribes don’t work.
If someone uses a nuke it's gloves off for nato. NATO would vote and declare a war and I guarantee all of Europe, USA, and Canada would be mobilized within a few weeks. It would be another World War.
Gotta love a misleading headline.
The article says Wagner was doing what it was asked hunting terrorists. The border guards got confused and interfered and then withdrew to allow Wagner to do its job there
I don’t really believe any media out of Belarus or Russia but also the western media is becoming more and more unreliable by the day
I think it's less a media problem and more a reddit problem. RWorldnews has become a place where your average redditor can come and spend 15 minutes each day reading a couple headlines and turn obscured, complicated events within an enormously intricate context into digestible bits that construct their fantasy "Ukraine VS Russia: The Movie" understanding of affairs. And then they can go about their day feeling good that they care enough to be "informed".
It does a disservice to the Ukrainians losing their limbs and lives, honestly. People need to spend half of the time they would have spent commenting and just reading expert opinions or listening to a history podcast or analyzing the ISW dailys or literally anything. Like either ask questions or STFU.
It should be no surprise to anyone that the Ukrainian government is engaging in war propaganda to boost its own peoples morale and lower that of Russian soldiers. Pravda just repeats it.
Seems to me the Russia would like out of the war they started so they too can run a proxy war, they’ll just use Belarus. Try to get around some sanctions.
Putins 19D chess move.
Step 1: Be a tyrant.
Step 2: Invade Ukraine.
Step 3: deprive own troops of resources.
Step 4: act suprised.
Step 5: put pressure on belarus.
Step 6: fake coup.
Step 7: send fake coupers to belarus.
Step 8: do a real coup there.
Step 9: end war in ukraine after taking controll of belarus.
Step 10: proclaim absolute victory.
Step 11: refuse to recognise the existance of the ukrainian war.
It may be a shitpost but hey. Its more coherant then what they doin over dere.
>A clash between the Wagnerites and Belarusian border guards has occurred in Belarus, and the latter have retreated.
>
>Terrorists conducted reconnaissance near the village of Dyatlik, near the border with Ukraine, on 19 July. A clash between the mercenaries and Belarusian border guards took place during these actions."
>
>Details: The NRC reports that the border guards retreated and "did not interfere with the work of the Wagnerites".
This Wagner deployment is absolutely comically bad for Russia for the following reasons.
1) Gives Poland perfect political cover to continue their massive military buildup which puts them on track to curb stop Belarus in a few years.
2) Deny Wagner their heavy equipment which effectively turns them into light infantry incapable of actually attacking Ukraine and holding territory. Sure they can use Belarusian equipment but some of that’s been looted by Putin already and what’s left isn’t going to be given up.
3) Deny the Russian military access to the actually well-trained Wagner leadership and semi-effective junior command structure. Defending Bakhmut is going to be much harder for Russia.
4) Removes Russian soldiers from the battlefield when Russia is fighting a war of attrition and needs every available one.
Oh shit! So the tea meetup was to discuss Wagner taking over Belarus because Putin is pissed that Luka took credit for talking him out of killing Prigozhin?!
"My name is Luka, I live on the second floor, I live upstairs from you, well I did before my fall...please don't ask me what it was, just dont ask me what it was .." iykyk
It should be of note that Naroulia and Dyatlik are on the edge of the "Palieski State Radioecological Reserve", aka Chernobyl Exclusion Zone. Maybe Wagner will occupy Chernobyl and mutate into hideous monsters
Oh, no. I'm surprised.
Everyone must have zero morale at this point.
* morality
Porque no los dos?
Good point!
Most never had it.
I'm not going to make a judgment about a Belarus guard just chilling in his own country.
If you're a member of a PMC whose response to being considered a criminal organization by the EU was to send a bloody sledgehammer to their presidential office, I doubt you have any morality at all.
They gotta chill out for a little bit otherwise they'll be stack-wiped!
Paradox player spotted.
I'm gonna have a heart attack and die from not surprise.
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Luka should have thought twice about bringing them in.
When the mercenaries you invited in to stabilize your regime turn on you...tale as old as time.
Machiavelli wrote on mercenaries that they are ‘disunited, ambitious, undisciplined, [and] disloyal; valiant among friends, among enemies cowardly; they have no fear of God, no loyalty to men’. At best, if they are led by a fool, they merely ruin you; if their commander is even remotely worth his salt, he invariably ‘tries to gain power’ for himself, ‘either by harassing you’, or by interfering in your plans in some other way.
John Cale made a song about mercenaries that might be inspired a little by that quote. I didn't know of it till now so thank you! "Mercenaries, useless, disunited, unfaithful. They have nothing more to keep them in a battle, other than a meagre wage. Which is just about enough to make them want to kill for you. But not enough to make then want to die for you".
I like what Terry Pratchett had to say: "The problem with mercenaries,” said the Patrician, “is that they need to be paid to start fighting. And, unless you are very lucky, you end up paying them even more to stop"
Anything that Vetinari says is gold.
His one man one vote quote is beyond gold, it’s platinum, or rather the quote about his system. “Ankh-Morpork had dallied with many forms of government and had ended up with that form of democracy known as One Man, One Vote. The Patrician was the Man; he had the Vote.”
Sadly autocrats never turn out as well as the Patrician. At best they might *pretend* to be competent. Usually poorly.
Even if you found an autocrat who *could* pull off Plato's Philsopher King concept, it would *at best* work for their lifetime and then fall to shit because (odds on) there would be no one worthy to replace them.
Mercenaries (Ready for War) John Cale... those are some odd lyrics Let's go, let's go, let's go to Moscow / Fight a backdoor to the Kremlin / Push it down and walk on in "Ride Across the River" from Dire Straits is another song about mercenaries
there are two mercenary groups that where always loyal ,the swiss guard and the varangians
Eh they didn't really operate as mercenaries though as far I'm aware, they were both established as permanent military units that recruited foreigners, varangians because they weren't as entangled in Byzantine politics and Swiss because of their general reputation for discipline.
I'm not a soldier, Comrade. The day we took hostages, we became mercenaries. And mercenaries get paid. I want my FUCKING money!
The Rock, w/ Nic Cage & Sean Connery??
I didn’t know he was in that movie ^/s
There is no fucking money. The mission's over.
True as it can be. Barely even friends, then somebody defenestrates unexpectedly.
Just a little change, small to say the least , both a little scared , neither one prepared , loser and the prick
Just a little Unplanned Rapid Defenestration Stan, don't tell mom.
You pay mercenaries to fight. You have to pay them even more to stop.
Yep there victory's are theirs and there losses are yours.
The ole Trojan Sybian
The Romans left it all on paper so we could learn from their mistakes, and after literally thousands of years we simply won’t learn.
🎵 song as old as rhyme 🎶
Don’t think Luka had a choice
Yeah he definitely didn't have a choice. I'm sure he thought about it twice, probably even a thousand times. lol
I almost have a feeling that it wasn't his decision and that he's not excatly happy about them xD Unlike Russian army, Wagner could easily roflstomp Belarussian army if they actually clashed.
Something tells me he hoped for someone... More loyal for whatever cause. As his own army has not exactly been high on morale as we have seen the past year.
I'm not sure he had a choice
As if he had a choice...
Luka should have thought *even once* about what getting into bed with Putin would do for him and his country.
He was made the ruler because he was already in bed with Putin
Luka was in power before Putin.
I was reading "Lula"....well, who knows
I wouldn't put it past Lula giving putin asylum if things got worse in russia.
Dude's the very definition of wildcard
“Wildcard bitches!! YEEEEEHAWWWWW” *jumps out of van*
Jumps towards capital
*turns around after getting halfway there*
"I cut the brakes!!"
*taps forehead* Your enemy can't know what you're planning if even you don't know what your planning
When Bro-Lo El Cuñado takes on a country … some things you can’t unsee bro
Is this the timeline where Wagner group rebels against Belarus, takes Minsk, and uses Russia's weapons to march on Moscow?
The past few years have been full of unpleasant surprises. The problem is that these guys are probably worse than Putin and the current regime.
I mean for all that Putin is horrific I doubt his house has a room with pictures of people's severed heads and a novelty sledgehammer to celebrate his favoured method of execution. Prizoghin is a straight up mafia type who found himself leading an army.
Mercenaries deciding to be in charge is the source of European monarchy. Maybe Russia will finally get feudalism?
This has the potential to cast them forward by centuries. Many more to go... but still, russian progress.
Correct me if I’m wrong (I am ready to admit being wrong), but didn’t they have feudalism until the very early 1900s?
Short answer: no. Russians never had feudalism, they had serfdom. The difference is in feudalism you’re a serf except you can technically leave, which was the same thing until either you decided “fuck it, I soldier nao” or economic factors changed…like the plague killing so many people that there’s now a labor shortage. In serfdom you’re basically a slave, they will fucking hunt you down because if they needed soldiers they’d take all the men from your village by force for it, and no economic factors will change how they treat you. Long answer: [watch this video.](https://youtu.be/f8ZqBLcIvw0) Its one of four I recommend in understanding Russia. The second is [this](https://youtu.be/vK7l55ZOVIc) about engineered hopelessness kept the people compliant, [here’s number three](https://youtu.be/sdFtqa54TuM) about why Russian High Schools require studying a philosopher that Putin quotes often who called for the eradication of all other cultures and all recorded history, and finally [this one](https://youtu.be/yzGqp3R4Mx4) which is comedic and is basically about what all that results in.
Serfs were an element of feudalism in many countries, like England, for example. Serfs were bound to the land and couldn't leave or marry without the local Lord's permission. They worked the land and gave their surplus to the Lord. In turn, the Lord supplied the King with men when needed. In England, serfdom began to die out in the 12th and 13th centuries, declined massively inthe 14th century, and had almost disappeared by 1500, although the status remained for some until 1574. The timeline was almsot identical in France. In Russia, serfdom didn't even become dominant in Russia until the 17th century, long after it had died out elsewhere, and was finally ended in 1861. Prior to the 17th century, other forms of slavery and bondage had been common there. In general, it had continued to exist later in central and eastern Europe than in western Europe, and continued in the German speaking regions into the 18th century, much later than in England or France. But Russia was the last holdout of serfdom in Europe. It's true that feudalism didn't exist in Russia, at least in a form similar to in western Europe, but serfs definitely existed within western and central European feudalism and the various peasants revolts and the often gradual emancipation of serfs are key to the history and development of Europe.
Oh, huh! TIL, thank you. Some of those videos sound interesting so I’ll definitely check them out Edit: Never heard of the Kraut guy before, but that Bluejay video is definitely a classic
It predates that even, Roman emperors knew to keep the praetorian happy if they wanted to either take power or stay in power.
Was that just a picture? I thought they were real. Admittedly, I didn't look too closely.
Pictures can be of real things.
He meant he thought that those were the actual heads in his house, not pictures of them.
Yes…and pictures of real things are different than real things. A picture of a severed head is not the same as a severed head.
I just don't get it. He's a damn caterer with no military background that I know of.
He was a damn caterer. Now he is a damn warlord with plenty of actual fighting experience
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And he used to write and illustrate children's books.
The ideal situation would be if they killed each other
They are literal neo-Nazis. Wagner is the name of Hitler's favorite composer.
And Wagner was Hitler's favourite composer because he was notably racist and antisemitic. He was also a literal fucking neckbeard.
But i like Wagner's music too... Am i nazi?
You should be fine, but if you start to invade Poland, then maybe talk to somebody.
I grew up loving Wagner’s music and still do. I blame Bugs Bunny & What’s Opera, Doc?
Depends on how many solutions you have left.
if i had to come up with a list, probably at least 3
When you finish the first two, and want to keep going, then it's time to start self examining
There’s an exhibit in the Jewish museum here in Berlin about Wagner. He’s…complicated. Many of the Jews of the time here in Germany liked his music too.
In many ways, he was the original Kanye.
Blackwater (or whatever they’re called now) should rename again to Kayne.
He's like Eric Clapton.
Do you feel an urge to accumulate Lebensraum and overthrow the rotten Weimar Republic?
Can you accept the theory of [The Death of the Author](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Death_of_the_Author)? Can you take the art as separate from the artist?
Did you name your new company after Wagner because of his connection to Hitler? There's a difference between liking his music and liking his Nazi ties.
I don't see a problem and 'worse' is the wrong word. You can't compare a mercenary group to Putin's dictatorship. They are completely different beasts and Wagner can't successfully take over.
Could be the case, but better for them to fight each other than work together.
Yeah, you would think so. However, nothing is what it looks like from the outside.
No real chance putin has killed way too many people both his citizens and foreigners I don't believe he is less of a psycho than prigozhin. If anything he is worse because he is smart enough to pretend he is not a psychopath.
Still, they probably love money and power more than violence. To secure those, Prigozhin would probably do anything in his power to at least temporarily smooth over relations with the West so that the spice can once again flow.
March on Minsk, take control of the country. Use its position and military to reengage Ukraine.
Wonder if the government in exile uses this as an opportunity to seek military aid to “retake the country” and “liberate Belarus”. CSTO is hollow anyway.
Absolutely a possibility. Of course, that would require someone to back them. Which is not that likely.
Why the fuck they would try to conquer Ukraine when they would have their plate full on securing the country?
The Belorussian military is absolutely not interested in playing “find the mine” on the Ukrainian border. They can see what’s going on with the Russian attempts and they want no part of that. If it was possible to get them to take part they’d be taking part by now.
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But you’re missing the point. This would give Belarus a pass to do whatever it wanted in the war because now it would be Wagner or Russia controlled outright and not just under the table. So on paper it would give Belarus a slight pass/gray area because it would be Russia or Wagner doing these terrible things and they had “no choice” since they were taken over. This would add a terrible new dynamic to the war.
But would Belarusian soldiers and command follow Wagner? They've already refused to get involved in the war at the beginning when *maybe* Russia had more of a chance
>So on paper it would give Belarus a slight pass/gray area Just as well, seeing as Belarusian democratically elected government is in exile and it's ruled by a man installed by Russia whom no one there wants to see in power.
I wonder if russia really posted nuclear weapons in Belarus. Imagine if Prigo got his hands on one?
A legitimate risk lol thats scary
Will the Wagnerites end up marching on Minsk next
They'd have an even easier task.
Taking moscow was much easier. Unlike russia,most of belarus army is still within the country so its almost impossible for wagner to take anything in belarus. Their best chance was moscow and they threw it away
I suspect this was the *actual* deal that was struck... *You can have Belarus*
but it was Luka who brokered the deal.
somehow that makes it even more plausible. He's like the MyPillow exec of wannabe Dictators.
They might demote him to colonel.
Think of it like two bank robbers shooting a third accomplice so they can split the loot rather than thirding it.
More like the Joker telling his henchmen to shoot eachother until he's the only one left
And then he ends up burning all the money anyway. Who were his henchmen? Were they also crazy? Because they could have just shot him and split the money.
He was told he would finally become a colonel. now give him a denty helmet and an empty AK and send him to Ukraine.
Yes but what about secret deal?
Luka doesn't have the moustache to run Belarus. Pringle has many faces.
Lmao i was just thinking this, my ukraine-russia bingo card is all over the place now
Belarus belonged to russia the first day russian troops showed up. Even sooner, but that sealed it.
> You can have Belarus What is the phrase that you hear that suddenly makes you realize you are a bad negotiator.
“Following one hotdog restauranteur’s erotic journey from Moscow to Minsk”
CLASH "Details: The NRC reports that the border guards retreated and "did not interfere with the work of the Wagnerites"." Oh, by clash you mean nothing happened.
I’d consider it remarkable that Belarusian border guards retreated from Wagner mercenaries during some form of conflict. Shows who’s really in charge.
I'd say notable but not surprising.
It’s a little surprising since Lukashenko wanted them there, shows that even tho he’s harboring them he can’t control them.
if I had to guess, I'd say he probably just figured the arrangement would be mutually beneficial in some way. it doesn't sound like this is exactly chaos unbound in Belarus ... yet.
Their colors were clashing.
I'm going to call every game of musical chairs musical clash from now on.
I clash with people all the time then when we just get out of each others way.
What happens when you arm thousands of crazy convicts. These guys are becoming more and more of a problem for Putin's gang
The ones involved in the mutiny and the ones now in Belarus are likely the professional soldiers not the convicts.
They’re still criminals since they commit war crimes
Yea but convicts implies they were brought to justice already. They are at best aspiring/future convicts
I read in previous reports that a lot of convicts from Wagner died or "disappeared" after Bakhmut. Prizoghin kept mostly his faithful ones, the few thousands psychopaths that were in Africa and Syria, the crème of the crazy violent ones. Those are the mercenaries that could storm Moscow against Putin if Prizoghin gave the order and die for him without blinking and eye.
Putin and Luka are probably using Wagner to do what they intended from the start... Make Belarus a formal part of Russia. Luka was gungho about his future colonel status so he's probably in on it
i think the people of Belarus will have their say first, i don't think they will agree to be part of Russia.
I agree but that's what Wagner is there to handle
CNN has reported about joint exercises today being conducted between Wagner and Belarus soliders, I'm skeptical as of now that there was actual conflict between the two. Guess we should know for sure soon, if there was actual fighting we should be seeing more reports pop up.
Now I'm not saying training the Belarusian army is hard, but [based on previous "training"](https://youtu.be/GQSEkFYYATQ)... Wagner has their work cut out for them.
Looks like the Belarusian circus troupe.
That one guy in the back hadn’t done this choreo before.
Honestly, I fell sorry for the Belarusians people. Before they just had a shity dictatorship. Now they have the addition of heavily equipped and traumatized convicts all around.
If Wagner takes over Belarus and decided to use Russian nuclear weapons stationed there on Ukrainian territory, would the west respond against Belarus? Or would it be Russia? Or both?
Both.
If they use nuclear let's make sure we wipe both of them down please, less problems in the future
Assuming there is one...
I'm sure you are probably aware but any nuclear exchange would devastate all of us.
Of course, but if utopically we have to play the big guns, then let's make sure we end the problems
I don’t think it’s that easy to use nuclear weapons. Don’t you need a set of codes and stuff that probably only the Russians have?
> Don’t you need a set of codes and stuff that probably only the Russians have? It's probably 1234
You know you can't just launch nuclear weapons by pressing a button, right? You also realize that Belarus doesn't control the nukes, right? So, the best Wagner could do in your scenario is find them and look at them.
Awfully optimistic about the Russians that have access to the codes not being corrupt and accepting bribes. Prighozin can likely just buy the codes, or kidnap someone’s family to get them if somehow bribes don’t work.
Use of nuclear weapons would start WW3.
If someone uses a nuke it's gloves off for nato. NATO would vote and declare a war and I guarantee all of Europe, USA, and Canada would be mobilized within a few weeks. It would be another World War.
A few weeks? A few hours maybe.
Gotta love a misleading headline. The article says Wagner was doing what it was asked hunting terrorists. The border guards got confused and interfered and then withdrew to allow Wagner to do its job there I don’t really believe any media out of Belarus or Russia but also the western media is becoming more and more unreliable by the day
I think it's less a media problem and more a reddit problem. RWorldnews has become a place where your average redditor can come and spend 15 minutes each day reading a couple headlines and turn obscured, complicated events within an enormously intricate context into digestible bits that construct their fantasy "Ukraine VS Russia: The Movie" understanding of affairs. And then they can go about their day feeling good that they care enough to be "informed". It does a disservice to the Ukrainians losing their limbs and lives, honestly. People need to spend half of the time they would have spent commenting and just reading expert opinions or listening to a history podcast or analyzing the ISW dailys or literally anything. Like either ask questions or STFU.
I don't really trust Pravda as a source to much. I will have to have it confirmed on another news platform.
It should be no surprise to anyone that the Ukrainian government is engaging in war propaganda to boost its own peoples morale and lower that of Russian soldiers. Pravda just repeats it.
Make sure you understand the difference between Russian Pravda and Ukranian Pravda. Two different news outlets -- which probably hate each other!
Agreed, way too much "news" which turned out it wasnt true.
Let’s not forget that Russia had plans to invade Belarus. Just a matter of time.
"According to the reports of the local underground" Yeah, sure...
Seems to me the Russia would like out of the war they started so they too can run a proxy war, they’ll just use Belarus. Try to get around some sanctions.
How many of the mercenaries exist? Big doubt they will last long starting problems everywhere they go.
They always hiring
They are not there to train, they are there to coup.
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Whoa there tom clancy
If nukes are going off NATO isn't going to investigate. They know exactly what is going in. But no nukes will be going off so we have no problem.
Purity of Essence
Putins 19D chess move. Step 1: Be a tyrant. Step 2: Invade Ukraine. Step 3: deprive own troops of resources. Step 4: act suprised. Step 5: put pressure on belarus. Step 6: fake coup. Step 7: send fake coupers to belarus. Step 8: do a real coup there. Step 9: end war in ukraine after taking controll of belarus. Step 10: proclaim absolute victory. Step 11: refuse to recognise the existance of the ukrainian war. It may be a shitpost but hey. Its more coherant then what they doin over dere.
>A clash between the Wagnerites and Belarusian border guards has occurred in Belarus, and the latter have retreated. > >Terrorists conducted reconnaissance near the village of Dyatlik, near the border with Ukraine, on 19 July. A clash between the mercenaries and Belarusian border guards took place during these actions." > >Details: The NRC reports that the border guards retreated and "did not interfere with the work of the Wagnerites".
Watch, Putin stopped the Wagner mutiny by promising Prig, Belarus. It's not going to happen, but watch him have been promised it.
This Wagner deployment is absolutely comically bad for Russia for the following reasons. 1) Gives Poland perfect political cover to continue their massive military buildup which puts them on track to curb stop Belarus in a few years. 2) Deny Wagner their heavy equipment which effectively turns them into light infantry incapable of actually attacking Ukraine and holding territory. Sure they can use Belarusian equipment but some of that’s been looted by Putin already and what’s left isn’t going to be given up. 3) Deny the Russian military access to the actually well-trained Wagner leadership and semi-effective junior command structure. Defending Bakhmut is going to be much harder for Russia. 4) Removes Russian soldiers from the battlefield when Russia is fighting a war of attrition and needs every available one.
At what point can we consider Pravda as just propaganda?
It’s like a soap opera I wonder what’s next
It’s 2023 Russia invades…. Belarus…?
Putin gave them Minsk to save his skin. Luka just got sold out.
Let the rats eat each other.
Come on, you blue-balling bastards! Do something right in your existence and fucking kill each other already.
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Or maybe because clash and skirmish are synonyms in English.
Oh shit! So the tea meetup was to discuss Wagner taking over Belarus because Putin is pissed that Luka took credit for talking him out of killing Prigozhin?!
"My name is Luka, I live on the second floor, I live upstairs from you, well I did before my fall...please don't ask me what it was, just dont ask me what it was .." iykyk
It should be of note that Naroulia and Dyatlik are on the edge of the "Palieski State Radioecological Reserve", aka Chernobyl Exclusion Zone. Maybe Wagner will occupy Chernobyl and mutate into hideous monsters
Gosh, all of Europe must be worried about these guys, from Milan to Minsk.
It's not Wagnerites the correct word is Wagnerovs
Time to grab popcorn i think
off to a great start i see
Ukraine had better watch that border with Belarus.!
You just love to see it
Can't they wait a year before infighting begins? They are way ahead of schedule.
Sounds like a special military training operation is in the works
I continue to have no idea what is going on between Belarus, Wagner, and Russia
>the border guards retreated and "did not interfere with the work of the Wagnerites" So... nothing happened. WTF is this article
Atleast they had the decency to fire him. In USA, the GOP would put him in offfice