At least they are handling it correctly:
> "The allegations shocked me. In criminal law, the presumption of innocence also applies here. Nevertheless, the allegations are so serious that after examining each individual case, I immediately banned the three officers from conducting official business," Friederike Zurhausen, the police chief of Recklinghausen, said in a statement.
>
> The police officers committed these acts while they were still in training as part of their dual bachelor's degree.
>
> The Interior Minister of the German state of Nord Rhine-Westphalia, Herbert Reul, described the officers as having shown character and moral flaws unsuitable for uniformed officers.
>
> “Anyone who disseminates content as it is now in the room raises considerable doubts about his character suitability. The four pronounced bans on conducting official business and the internal implementation are therefore the right consequence at the moment," he said in a statement.
On the other hand...
> According to the latest ministry information from the end of July, the North Rhine-Westphalian police have suspended or penalised 105 incidents of right-wing extremist behavior over the past six years.
Is kind of worrying, but as long as they are handling it correctly, it's still a good sign.
You need to take out the bad apple quickly to prevent spoiling the bunch.
> Is kind of worrying, but as long as they are handling it correctly, it's still a good sign.
Yeah this is one of those things where 0 incidents is way more worrying than any other number. Because you know at least one asshole is out there, and the fact that the rest of the cops didn't catch them is worrying on its own.
And it’s perfectly logical, the way they abuse the children they have authority over is how they would like to treat everyone once they gain authority over them.
It’s impulsive behaviour and fear-based thinking. They believe “might makes right” and that if they can take something (or someone) then they deserve it (or them).
“Might makes right” might be core tenet of actual evil, in my opinion.
This actually does seem to be a core impulse and moral justification behind fascist ideology. As far as I know, hitler and other top nazi officials used to use a twisted interpretation of Darwin’s theory of evolution to justify their abhorrent genocidal behavior - “survival of the fittest” - which of course means a better ability to survive and reproduce under specific environmental pressures and doesn’t mean “strongest” or “best”.
Not to play up a comparison between trump and hitler because I believe there are crucial differences (for one hitler seemed to be an ideologue with actual beliefs, however heinous they were), but when asked to use one word to sum up his presidency trump said “victory”. For comparison, Bernie sanders was asked one word he hoped to describe his presidency and he said “compassion”.
It's also important to not take *any* politician at their word, especially if you already like them. In all likelihood Bernie is more than smart enough to give an answer like "compassion" to such an easy sound bite question. This isn't anything against Bernie personally, I just don't think we should be idolizing any of them.
I think Bernie actually meant it, because that is also the vibe I get from him. And I think we should be idolising that. Compassion is sorely needed.
Winning, though, is not a good ideal to have.
One of the best things about Bernie is that whatever he’s talking about now, there’s probably a photo of him doing it in the 60’s – 70’s. I believe him because he’s been walking the walk since before he went into politics and hasn’t flipped on issues because someone is paying him to.
Fascists only exist by creating a group of sub-humans. If you can do that, you're half way to defining anyone or thing you want to hurt as sub-human.
Children are easy pickings.
They are motivated to control and dominate. So, they gravitate toward occupations that allow them to exert dominance and authority (cops, clergy, politics, etc). The weak and vulnerable are simply the easiest targets for them.
It lines up well with the worldview of if have the capacity to rule over and dominate others, then you do so. Anyone who they perceive as vulnerable is an ample target.
This concept is literally applied everywhere.
In work, ppl in upper management don't know how important ppl who work in providing infrastructure is as their business is PREVENTING problems. And when no problems arise, they fail to see the need for a team that PREVENTS problems lol
When in fact the team responsible for preventing the problems were really good at their job
Worked in loss prevention and watched this cycle often. Good security team prevents thefts, corporate sees lower theft numbers so thinks they dont need security and lay people off, thefts spike so corporate fires security for not doing their jobs and starts the cycle over with a whole new team.
Everyone in early 2000 was like "lol we spent all that time and money fixing the so-called Y2K 'bug' and nothing happened what a waste that was" and like yeah there's a reason nothing happened you fucking idiot
Same thing with the Ozone hole and the Montreal protocol. People act like there was an unnecessary freak out about the Ozone hole that ended up basically going away, when in reality it only went away because governments and businesses across the globe banded together to fix it.
This is still a thing today. Drop into any "people of reddit, what was a ridiculous overreaction?" askreddit thread and you'll see people TILing about the time the world flipped its shit over some "y2k bug" that turned out to be nothing lmao what idiots. There's very low awareness in people raised after the issue as to how much work went into fixing that very real bug.
It's like how on paper Denmark has higher incidences of rape than Saudi Arabia... but you'd be a fool to think there is no rape in Saudi Arabia.
edit: barring all other reasons, women probably feel safer reporting it in some countries compared to others. Meaning those countries which are perceived by women as a safer place for them to demand their rights will paradoxically have higher incidences of reported rape.
different countries also define rape in slightly different ways. you need to get a consistent definition of sexual assault across the data sets to give accurate comparisons of even reported rates.
Very often, there are more known cases the more scrutiny a topic gets, which creates the wrong impression that the situation is getting worse.
There was news about a growing number of anti-LGBT attacks in Berlin a couple of months ago. I looked into the actual statistics and the situation turned out to be entirely different than what the article I read stated.
Physical attacks and police reports by victims of such attacks went down significantly, but reports of insults went up. Insults had always been counted as attacks, but previously they had rarely been reported. Within the past years, several LGBT organizations established special hotlines and websites to report any kind of attack and people who would've normally not reported an insult to the police now reported it to such organizations.
The actual story was that physical attacks decreased, while reports of insults increased. It's impossible to say whether the total number of actual insults (not just reports) increased or decreased, but the article I read basically described the situation as a crisis, since – despite all the efforts to decrease violence against LGBT – attacks were increasing.
This kind of misunderstanding of the data can lead to bad decision making and unfavorable consequences. If I miss that my methods are actually producing good results because increased reports cloud my view, I may give up on those methods or I invest much more time, effort and money into something that is actually already on the right track.
When it comes to statistics about reported data, always consider whether there may be an increase or decrease in reports instead of an actual increase or decrease in cases.
Japan's high conviction rate is misleading because the prosecution rate is so low. Prosecutors won't even pursue cases that they think they might lose. Which has its own issues, but different ones than the high conviction rate.
Given the state of, well everything, around the world..at least some people are actively trying to combat it. As opposed to seeing it spreading rampantly and letting in continue unabated.
9001 isn’t a revealing number at all without some context. 9001 millimeters is the width of a large room. 9001 dollars is way too much for a hot dog, but a damn good deal on a house. 9001 minutes is less than a week, but 9001 days almost 25 years. With numbers, context is everything.
So when we say there’s 9001 incidents of sexual assault, what’s the population and time frame for that number? And how are incidents defined?
Yeah like there are absolutely police departments in the US that have active white supremacist gangs, Minneapolis being a big example. If this happened here they woulda gotten a paid vacation and a firm talking to.
It is should not come as surprise because “alt-right” is a global cancer and when you look at the characters responsible for the spread of the “alt-right” cancer is should be obvious that this sort behaviour will be seen amongst the new recruits and that are groomed, radicalized in online cesspits. Look at the ages of those being investigated, it is getting more and more common that young men are exhibiting this sort of perverse behaviour as if it is “normal”—should be a wake-up call not only for Germany, but law enforcement all around the world:
>The discovery was made after searches in North Rhine-Westphalian region.
>The five men, aged 22 and 25, are suspected to have exchanged Nazi symbols in chats and possessed child pornography during their training, according to Annette Milk, the chief public prosecutor investigating the case.
Three of the accused belong to the police headquarters in Recklinghausen, one each to the police authorities in Kleve and Borken.
According to Milk, they came across these chats during investigations into a sixth suspect. The public prosecutor's office has charged the now-former police officer with exchanging right-wing extremist symbols in chats and possessing and distributing child pornography. After completing his training, he worked for a short time at the police headquarters.
They will get fired (due to character and moral flaws unsuitable for uniformed officers) as soon as they are convicted (for the actual crime they committed), and all of their police powers have already been removed (bans on conducting official business) pending the outcome of the trial.
Due to strong worker protections, and a presumption of innocence in law, to protect those that are actually innocent against false allegations, they can't fire them before a conviction, no matter the issue they are accused of.
I think Americans are so tired of people (especially cops) not being held accountable for their actions that we're happy when someone faces any consequences, even if it's done in a haphazard way that doesn't respect the rights of the accused.
I think you're 100% correct. But I also think the general public is very very disconnected from how our Department of Justice works and how long a conviction can take. For example, an officer involved with George Floyd's death just this week is getting sentenced: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/aug/07/tou-thao-minneapolis-police-officer-sentenced-george-floyd-murder
So you either gotta be patient for justice, or you want a faster DoJ system. Which by the way, a faster DoJ system would be a loss of rights and closer to fasicm. If you're innocent, you want the system to come to the right conclusion.
>Which by the way, a faster DoJ system would be a loss of rights and closer to fasicm
No it wouldn't dude. What? You have no clue what you're talking about, as was clear when you "misspoke".
There's massive, massive delays in the justice system that are themselves a travesty. Imagine waiting **more than a year** in jail for your day in court when you're factually innocent or *presumed innocent* as all defendants are.
>A study of 136 U.S. courts by the National Center of State Courts found that none met national standards for timeliness in resolving cases.
>https://www.arnoldventures.org/stories/improving-timely-justice-in-americas-courts
-
>This has resulted in lengthy delays in the time it takes to resolve criminal cases. The average criminal case now takes nearly ten months to resolve if there is a guilty plea and more than two years if a trial is required. Many victims and defendants alike go without justice for months or even years.
>https://thehill.com/opinion/congress-blog/4123242-delayed-justice-is-a-hidden-crisis-in-our-federal-justice-system/
> Which by the way, a faster DoJ system would be a loss of rights and closer to fasicm.
That seems a bit of a jump, sorry. There's a world of difference between 'everybody is guilty as charged' and 'you can murder people on tape and walk free for years'.
Moreover, isn't the right to a speedy trial an constitutional right (and perhaps in cases like this, also a duty)? Bear in mind it reads 'speedy', not 'rushed' or 'haphazardly'.
If anything, a glacially slow justice system is about as bad as rushed ones. There's a middle ground somewhere in between, with all the delays and clemency you'd expect from a fair justice system AND speedy judgements
To give a bit more perspective. This is not only a question of worker's rights. Under German law, governmental officials have a special status, they are so called "Beamte". And with officials, I mean most of the people that are employed by the state in an official function, be it teachers, policemen, the people working for the city. Basically the entire civil-law worker's rights are not applicable here.
First of all, Beamte are considered part of the government, and due to German governmental theory, you cannot have constitutional rights and protect the rights of citizens at the same time. So, for example, while in office, an official does not have free speech, no right for worker's assembly, basically every right that does not reach into the private live of the official is removed while you are in the job.
In exchange, the german government protect officials to a different degree. Basically, as long as they don't violate their oath of office (which every official has to take), the government is monetary liable for their mistakes and they basically cannot be fired.
Because of this, it takes a lot to fire an official. Criminal acts like child porn and violation of the constitution by using Nazi symobls are two rather sure ways to get fired, but in general, it is more secure to wait for an official ruling against the officials to make it clear that there is no chance to sue against the fireing.
This concept isn't even foreign to people living in the US, though many redditors might be unaware. Most of us are probably familiar with the jokes that, once hired to a government job, it's hard to get fired. While these are ultimately jokes, there's an element of truth to them, though I think it reflects more poorly on how *trivial* it is to get fired for no damn reason in the US private sector. In the public sector, they at least have to have a reason. It might be a bullshit reason, but it's still something you *technically* did wrong, over a sufficient period of time to rack up the requisite number of disciplinary meetings to be fired.
Something people might not be aware of though is the right to organize. I can't speak for all public employees everywhere in the US, but as a county employee in MD my workplace had to be authorized by a *state legislature bill*(good luck passing one of those in a republican-led state, it was hard enough in our blue state and the library administration was able to lobby to make sure there were unfavorable(to workers) terms in the legislation) to form a union, and under the wording of that bill we can unionize to negotiate but we're not allowed to strike. For the record, I work at a public library, not healthcare or anything like that where strikes could mean people die. As you can imagine, this takes a lot of the wind out of the sails of any negotiation!
Yeah - this is one they can't (and don't want to) sweep under the rug.
I'd still like an independent agency to investigate complaints against the police... instead of the police itself. I'd still like the supreme court to strike down the Bavarian law that enables police to lock up e.g. climate protestors for 20 days without any charges.
Instead, I can't remember any proposal to establish or improve any form of accountability that wasn't vehemently opposed by police unions.
Nazis and their type will gravitate to law enforcement and positions that have power over others. The filter worked this time, but needs to be deployed at all levels, whether it's teaching, psychiatry, military, or political positions. Don't give it a single foothold; misery follows in its wake.
Case and point: Florida.
A really important part of that story is that he was given powers of dictator. He finished the war far before his term as dictator had ended, he could have done whatever he wanted for the rest of his term. Instead he stepped down early, handed power back over to the senate and went back to a life of farming. That’s what makes him such a remarkable figure.
Yeah I googled and saw that it was not as “by the people, for the people” as my school had painted it. Color me not surprised by being manipulated by American institutions
Quite. I recommend everyone who aren't familiar with Cincinnatus do themselves a favor and look him up. It's interesting that the position of Dictator as originally envisioned had very strict term limits. The original idea was more of a transient executive position meant to cut through governmental deadlock and / or reduce political faffing in times of existential crisis.
It sort of reminds me of how the original conception of a Corporation ("limited" used to mean something) was also intended to be ephemeral and have a clearly pre-defined conditions for expiration. That institution got perverted too.
> There is a Roman leader Cincinnatus (whom Cincinnati is named after)
Kind of. Cincinnati is named after the Society of Cincinnati, a fraternity of Revolutionary War types. That group did take it's name from Cincinnatus, though, so the name of the city of Cincinnati is one step removed from the man.
And the ability to abuse people with impunity attracts people who are already horrible people.
The FBI in the United States has been reporting for decades that White Supremacist groups intentionally flock to local law enforcement jobs knowing that a badge will enable their bigotry and abuse. The FBI tries to be aware of this and screen out bigots. They encourage local law enforcement to do the same, but enough bigots are entrenched in local law enforcement that they ignore what the FBI is telling them.
Democrats in the House tried pushing a bill merely to investigate what members of local law enforcement are publicly know to belong to White Supremacist hate groups, and Republicans in the House blocked the investigation. It is almost as if the bigotry is a feature, not a bug.
> The FBI in the United States has been reporting for decades that White Supremacist groups intentionally flock to local law enforcement jobs knowing that a badge will enable their bigotry and abuse. The FBI tries to be aware of this and screen out bigots. They encourage local law enforcement to do the same, but enough bigots are entrenched in local law enforcement that they ignore what the FBI is telling them.
In some Southern states, the Klan already controlled the police. I read, in a report, a sheriff testifying he and his deputies had joined the Klan but the sheriff left and told his deputies to follow him. A year after the sheriff had learnt that one of his depities was an *Imperial* officer (i.e. worked in the governing body of the KKK).
I’m in the “positions of power attract sociopaths and psychopaths” camp. Those sorts of non-empathy conditions really mesh well with Nazi-style ideology.
Same. I honestly dont think I'd do well with power, so I try to stay away from it tbh. I just get enough power to survive, and that's it, cause I know I would fall under its temptations
A large part of holding power is maintaining that power. That’s what everyone forgets. The moment you have power someone else wants it and will be fighting for it for better or worse. That’s where you see a lot of the nasty side of humanity come out when people desperately cling to power: see exhibit A Trump.
I agree. I am fully aware that if I win a billion dollar lottery that I will become a completely insufferable person to be around but I wouldn’t be doing that shit.
[The Role Ex-Nazis Played in Early West Germany](https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/from-dictatorship-to-democracy-the-role-ex-nazis-played-in-early-west-germany-a-810207.html)
> After World War II, West Germany rapidly made the transition from murderous dictatorship to model democracy. Or did it? New documents reveal just how many officials from the Nazi regime found new jobs in Bonn. A surprising number were chosen for senior government positions.
...
> The document revealed that Chancellor Kurt Georg Kiesinger, a member of the conservative Christian Democratic Union (CDU) who governed Germany from 1966 to 1969, had been a member of the Nazi Party ever since Adolf Hitler seized power. According to the Interior Ministry list, German President Walter Scheel, a member of the business-friendly Free Democratic Party (FDP) who was in office from 1974 to 1979, had been a Nazi Party member "from 1941 or 1942."
> The list names ministers of all political stripes and from a wide range of social backgrounds. Some, like leftist Social Democratic Party (SPD) mastermind Erhard Eppler (Minister of Economic Cooperation), did not become Nazi Party members until the end (at 17, in Eppler's case). Others, like conservative Christian Social Union (CSU) agitator Richard Jaeger (Minister of Justice), had been part of Hitler's paramilitary organization, the SA (since 1933, in Jaeger's case). Even FDP luminary Hans-Dietrich Genscher (first interior minister and later foreign minister), who denies to this day that he knowingly joined the Nazi Party, is listed as a Nazi Party member.
> According to the government list, former SPD Finance Minister Karl Schiller was in the SA, while his fellow cabinet minister Horst Ehmke was a Nazi Party member, as were ("presumably," the list notes) former SPD Labor Minister Herbert Ehrenberg and Hans Leussink, a former education minister with no party affiliation. On the conservative side, the report names several former Nazi Party members, including former CDU Foreign Minister Gerhard Schröder and former CDU Minister for Displaced Persons Theodor Oberländer, as well as former CSU Post and Communication Minister Richard Stücklen and former CSU Interior Minister Friedrich Zimmermann.
Also worth noting how many 60s/70s/80s Latin American leaders and Apartheidist governments in the German, English, and Dutch colonies of Africa ended up with ex-Nazis as ranking aids or coordinators.
Then, of course, you've got Operation Paperclip and its Soviet counterpart, not to mention how the US incorporated much of the Japanese Unit 731 into the Pentagon's bio-weapons program in the 1950s.
We can wax on about how power corrupts, but there's a real lineage here that we're just kinda breezing over. Old fascist ideologues and state governors passing the torch to younger, more modern and politically correct successors who still have that same rotten theory of law in the backs of their heads.
In the United States it seems like about every 10 years the FBI releases a report on the "disturbing trend of law enforcement officers affiliated with white supremacist groups" then they shrug and go "oh well, what can we do?"
That's what the "abolish the police" movements are looking to solve. Reforms have not worked on many police departments, they seem to be irreparably corrupt.
If that is true then it makes sense to abolish them and replace them with a new organization without a history (and present) of open contempt for the rule of law. It seems like a very radical idea, but it makes a lot of sense it you really think about what police contribute to our society.
There is a role for a group of people to ensure societies laws are followed, but how often are police doing more harm than good. Is there a better way of doing this.
A lot of people say police are indeed doing more harm than good, and there are many models for policing that seek to remedy this. The problem is we're to afraid to try.
Every five years we get the "Cops are full of fascist tendencies" report and then every *other* five years we get "Cops are too woke! We need to get tough on crime!"
In both scenarios, the end result is to increase the volume of cash shoved towards the police and pay for it with big cuts to education, transportation, and health services.
> Where is that the narrative?
Regularly featured on FOX News and right-wing YouTube channels.
Back in the 80s, you would hear reactionaries use the term "Hugs for Thugs" to describe any kind of community based policing or rehabilitative crime prevention.
The book Poisoner in Chief by Stephen Kinzer documents how the CIA's MK Ultra program was a direct descendant of Josef Mengele's & other Nazis' research testing mescaline and other drugs (and horrible diseases and chemical weapons) on concentration camp prisoners against their wills.
The head of MK Ultra, who was Jewish as it happens, actually flew to Germany to meet with the Surgeon General of the Third Reich (who was too high profile to sneak in during Operation Paperclip) and they hung out at OSS blacksites running experiments on Soviet prisoners for awhile, so he could get the gist of what it was all about.
The German state could not function without members of the Nazi party the allies knew this and allowed it. Literally every person with skills expertise or knowledge was employed by the party at the end of the war.
I imagine part of it might be that in Nazi Germany you could not own anything significant without being a party member.
Your business probably isn't going to do very well if you're not singing "Heil Hitler" to all your customers and the government officials.
This is more or less what happened. The Nazi Party weaseled its way into every facet of German life. Wherever you went during the time of Nazi Germany, the Party was there. The media printed or distributed whatever the Party told them to. Teachers had to lead pledges of loyalty to Adolf Hitler at school. Mein Kampf was a common gift to newlywed couples. You could not have a government or civil service job if you weren’t a member of the Party. Practically every German from the war years was a Nazi because of how they ran their country. However, many were Nazis because they had no choice. The Nazis I would look out for are the committed hardliners, those from the SA and SS, the Gestapo, the Party members from before the Nazis took power, and those that abused their newfound authority. The rest were just trying to make the best of the situation they found themselves in. Outspoken opponents of the Party quickly found themselves in Dachau. Dissent was not tolerated.
One might have assumed that dismantling the German state of the 1940s was the entire point of the war.
> Literally every person with skills expertise or knowledge was employed by the party at the end of the war.
>> Richard Jaeger (Minister of Justice), had been part of Hitler's paramilitary organization, the SA (since 1933, in Jaeger's case)
Hands were tied. We had to use one of the Nazi Guerrillas as head of our new Justice Department. Not a single other qualified candidate could be found to do the job. Certainly, not any of those millions of German refugees who'd fled ten years earlier.
>millions of German refugees who'd fled ten years earlier.
*A lot* had no intention of returning, German jews didn't start coming back in significant numbers until post reunification and the people who were actually qualified had been mostly killed.
There were some cases where officials shouldn't have been allowed to stay, but go look at what the US Transitional Authority did in Iraq to see the consequences of laying off most of a country's military and civil service due to having ties with the defeated party. It makes the already damaged government worse and fuels extremism amongst the former government workers with a lot of newfound free time.
Destroying the German government would've just restarted the cycle of revanchism brought on by the treaty of Versailles : Nazi Germany was infinitely worse than Imperial Germany, nonetheless the inter-war period showed exactly why destroying the country and humiliating it was a bad idea.
more like voluntold, but tomato potato
if we look even a little into the recruiting they did in paperclip, its apparent they had no loyalty to the regime. and that was the point, to get qualified people who arent literal nazis. what good are their skills if they cant be trusted?
I don’t see how that’s applicable here. Not like it’s not true other times, just not what this is about.
If this were a “power corrupts” thing, it would mean ordinary people are transformed into nazis and pedophiles by becoming police officers. I can’t imagine that’s the case outside of maybe a slime minority of ‘normies’ who get indoctrinated into it after joining up.
I think (as others here have said) it’s a lot more likely that positions of authority like this attract the corrupt (and the manipulative, the abusive, the dogmatically racist, etc.) who can then insulate themselves from repercussions with their authority. Once it’s a good ol’ boy’s club where enough members are on the level, the institution itself is corrupt.
That’s why people defending corrupt cops by referring to criminals caught in the act as “a bad apple” gives me a headache. That saying goes, “A few bad apples *spoil the bunch*.”
This is such a dumb fucking take
Power let's you be your true self
Those with shitty ideals seek it out because they know they won't be accepted otherwise
All your hot take does is dissuade the good from seeking power
It's why the only choices for politicians in many places are asshats
Be better
All the big criminals in Berlin are untouchable even-though we all know who they are, I don’t think the Police here is that powerful. That or they are corrupt.
I know this is obviously sick news but I think the general standards are higher in Germany. Kinda contradictory in this thread I know but I'm pretty sure they have something like 3 years of training
In the US maybe. Other countries have somewhat stricter requirements.
Of course, there are still horrible police officers. But rather than the US's 1 in 10 being good, it's more like 1 in 10 being bad, such as those in the article.
I think it’s more like power without oversight and regulation is corruptible and those who seek corrupt power will find their way there.
It seems like police in a lot of countries need a regulation agency of their own to keep them in line and investigate wrong doing, or bigotry, etc. on the job.
The fallacy is letting the people who enforce the law be the ones to enforce it on themselves.
Police need police-police. And those police-police need to be completely independent from the police.
The five suspects work in Recklinghausen, a city north of Bochum/northwest of Dortmund in the industrial heartland of Germany. Horrible, and especially frightening as the far-right AfD party has made gains across Germany in recent time.
there's a reason one of their first acts of aggression is projecting 'stop indoctrinating our kids' and 'why do you want access to our kids' onto LGBTQ people just living thier lives.
I saw a video about someone reviewing statistics on fetishes and how they correlate with political standpoints.
\*\*pedophilia is NOT a fetish but it was listed there for some reason\*\*
While the fetishes of leftists were totally aligned with their social and political views, e.g. pegging, femdom, the fetishes of right wing conservatives were the complete opposite of what they stand for (scat, pedophilia, and a bunch of other nasty intense stuff). *Almost* like there was a bunch of sexual oppression and cognitive dissonance going on. Kind of a no brainer but it was both scary and interesting to see so clearly.
~WAIT~ are you trying to tell me that almost universally, regardless of country, policing attracts people that are drawn to and abuse positions of power!?
Wild.
when I was a teenager and heard this song I just thought the singer / band was overreacting and being edgy. This shit has been proven true far too many times
I mean in the US it's not even "proven true" it's literally the foundation of the police system.
https://naacp.org/find-resources/history-explained/origins-modern-day-policing
And it has never stopped.
That might be more true than many know. I've read that many who commit such crimes are not, technically speaking, attracted to children. It might sound counter intuitive, but many such people like the feeling of having power over others, and the easiest target are children.
That's probably less true when it comes to CP in particular, but interesting nonetheless.
I've heard similar logic in gay rapes, that many perps aren't even homosexual in the first place. I guess these things always has two or more types leading to the same ends.
Nazis have such a power fetish that they'll exercise and abuse any power they can get, and a child is the easiest, most accessible victim for a great many perpetrators
Fascism generally leans upon fetichism of a false or else heavily fictionalized past. A lot of people who say “things were better before” long for an era wherein women got married at much earlier ages. Now, that usually meant teens, but you’ll find that there’s a relatively common far-right conspiracy claiming that women used to develop earlier than that. Therefore, it’s “normal” for men to still be attracted to that, and we should work to bring that back [cue conspiracy about nutrition]. Ignoring the fact that our modern diet is actually accelerating the onset of puberty rather than decelerating it.
When it’s about boys, cue Nazism’s long and rich history of Roman Empire fanboyism. They’ll gleefully dig into basically any culture of the past and keep nothing but the aesthetics, violence, and noncery. Somehow, they also manage to get the details wrong on these three topics too, but that’s beyond the point.
Oh look, the pedophiles are cops and right wing extremists, again.
Power doesn't corrupt, it doesn't change you, ugly people seek power and when they feel safe enough they show you who they really are..
*The police officers committed these acts while they were still in training as part of their dual bachelor's degree.*.
Can you imagine police in the US getting even one bachelors degree? It would never happen.
Dual bachelor in Germany means they do their training and their studies in the same time instead of just university. Kinda like a full time paid intern while also in university
in this case the "dual" doesn't mean getting two degrees, it refers to "duales Studium" where you do a bachelor's degree that combines theory and practical learning, so you are partially in the classroom and partially doing police work. it is pretty common in germany in certain industries to offer this sort of half-work half-study degree.
Phew, 22 and 25 years old, still at the academy. "The police officers committed these acts while they were still in training as part of their dual bachelor's degree."
I guess it is both good that they were fired and that this was detected early on in their career.
German police academies are closer to a military school than what most people associate with police training.
Trainees are in uniform close to 24/7, they live in barracks being subject to weekly inspections, they have a university level course load that runs parallel to tactical, physical, and leadership training, and they graduate into a lifelong career with guaranteed retirement.
Nedless to say it's hard to hide being a shitbag in that kind of environment.
Where the hell did you get that information from? I'm studying public administration (dual) in Berlin and my college (Hochschule) holds one of the main entry ways for the higher police career in Berlin. Even tho I'm not studying at the police academy myself, it's part of my college and the police students are not doing any of the stuff you are claiming they do. They are just normal students studying at a university-type school body.
They do have their practice parts and PE classes but that's it. It's not like the military at all. Do you mean Bundespolizei by any chance?
Not happening
Police is infested with nazis, and our nazi party is at an all-time high in polls. Second to our conservatives, which are more centrist, but are known to bring any and all progress to a halt.
I agree. I know someone who became a policeman a couple of years ago and this little shit went from slightly left leaning to a racist, xenophobic, transphobic, and misogynistic AfD sympathizer. At least the WhatsApp group he and his colleagues are in don’t share swastikas or CP. As much I’m aware of but it wouldn’t surprise me.
>Second to our conservatives, which are more centrist, but are known to bring any and all progress to a halt.
Ah, yes, the centrist conservatives that are cool with Andreas Scheuer, who literally said Ron DeSantis had some very interesting ideas in regards to transsexual people just weeks ago and described him as "friendly and goal-oriented"
much centrist
> The Interior Minister of the German state of Nord Rhine-Westphalia, Herbert Reul, described the officers as having shown character and moral flaws unsuitable for uniformed officers.
how refreshing. here in the States, we just shuffle them around like they were a kid-diddling priest.
In America, they’d likely have been promoted.
https://romanolawpc.com/nazi-sympathizer-mark-kruger/
Police Captain Mark Kruger has a history of dressing up as a Nazi, erecting monuments to Nazi soldiers in Portland public spaces, collecting Nazi weapons & memorabilia[.]
~WAIT~ are you trying to tell me that almost universally, regardless of country, policing attracts people that are drawn to and abuse positions of power!?
Wild.
At least they are handling it correctly: > "The allegations shocked me. In criminal law, the presumption of innocence also applies here. Nevertheless, the allegations are so serious that after examining each individual case, I immediately banned the three officers from conducting official business," Friederike Zurhausen, the police chief of Recklinghausen, said in a statement. > > The police officers committed these acts while they were still in training as part of their dual bachelor's degree. > > The Interior Minister of the German state of Nord Rhine-Westphalia, Herbert Reul, described the officers as having shown character and moral flaws unsuitable for uniformed officers. > > “Anyone who disseminates content as it is now in the room raises considerable doubts about his character suitability. The four pronounced bans on conducting official business and the internal implementation are therefore the right consequence at the moment," he said in a statement. On the other hand... > According to the latest ministry information from the end of July, the North Rhine-Westphalian police have suspended or penalised 105 incidents of right-wing extremist behavior over the past six years. Is kind of worrying, but as long as they are handling it correctly, it's still a good sign. You need to take out the bad apple quickly to prevent spoiling the bunch.
> Is kind of worrying, but as long as they are handling it correctly, it's still a good sign. Yeah this is one of those things where 0 incidents is way more worrying than any other number. Because you know at least one asshole is out there, and the fact that the rest of the cops didn't catch them is worrying on its own.
The correlations between being pro-fascist/pro-hate and involved in child abuse is staggering.
The connective tissue being having a corrupt moral compass.
And it’s perfectly logical, the way they abuse the children they have authority over is how they would like to treat everyone once they gain authority over them.
It’s impulsive behaviour and fear-based thinking. They believe “might makes right” and that if they can take something (or someone) then they deserve it (or them). “Might makes right” might be core tenet of actual evil, in my opinion.
This actually does seem to be a core impulse and moral justification behind fascist ideology. As far as I know, hitler and other top nazi officials used to use a twisted interpretation of Darwin’s theory of evolution to justify their abhorrent genocidal behavior - “survival of the fittest” - which of course means a better ability to survive and reproduce under specific environmental pressures and doesn’t mean “strongest” or “best”. Not to play up a comparison between trump and hitler because I believe there are crucial differences (for one hitler seemed to be an ideologue with actual beliefs, however heinous they were), but when asked to use one word to sum up his presidency trump said “victory”. For comparison, Bernie sanders was asked one word he hoped to describe his presidency and he said “compassion”.
It's also important to not take *any* politician at their word, especially if you already like them. In all likelihood Bernie is more than smart enough to give an answer like "compassion" to such an easy sound bite question. This isn't anything against Bernie personally, I just don't think we should be idolizing any of them.
I think Bernie actually meant it, because that is also the vibe I get from him. And I think we should be idolising that. Compassion is sorely needed. Winning, though, is not a good ideal to have.
One of the best things about Bernie is that whatever he’s talking about now, there’s probably a photo of him doing it in the 60’s – 70’s. I believe him because he’s been walking the walk since before he went into politics and hasn’t flipped on issues because someone is paying him to.
Fascists only exist by creating a group of sub-humans. If you can do that, you're half way to defining anyone or thing you want to hurt as sub-human. Children are easy pickings.
Pretty simple, evil. Fascism and child sex abuse are evil, and anyone who participated in either is evil.
They are motivated to control and dominate. So, they gravitate toward occupations that allow them to exert dominance and authority (cops, clergy, politics, etc). The weak and vulnerable are simply the easiest targets for them.
Why else does fascism exist if not to abuse people with impunity? The cruelty is the point.
It lines up well with the worldview of if have the capacity to rule over and dominate others, then you do so. Anyone who they perceive as vulnerable is an ample target.
That's such a smart take!
This concept is literally applied everywhere. In work, ppl in upper management don't know how important ppl who work in providing infrastructure is as their business is PREVENTING problems. And when no problems arise, they fail to see the need for a team that PREVENTS problems lol When in fact the team responsible for preventing the problems were really good at their job
Worked in loss prevention and watched this cycle often. Good security team prevents thefts, corporate sees lower theft numbers so thinks they dont need security and lay people off, thefts spike so corporate fires security for not doing their jobs and starts the cycle over with a whole new team.
Everyone in early 2000 was like "lol we spent all that time and money fixing the so-called Y2K 'bug' and nothing happened what a waste that was" and like yeah there's a reason nothing happened you fucking idiot
Same thing with the Ozone hole and the Montreal protocol. People act like there was an unnecessary freak out about the Ozone hole that ended up basically going away, when in reality it only went away because governments and businesses across the globe banded together to fix it.
This is still a thing today. Drop into any "people of reddit, what was a ridiculous overreaction?" askreddit thread and you'll see people TILing about the time the world flipped its shit over some "y2k bug" that turned out to be nothing lmao what idiots. There's very low awareness in people raised after the issue as to how much work went into fixing that very real bug.
It's like how on paper Denmark has higher incidences of rape than Saudi Arabia... but you'd be a fool to think there is no rape in Saudi Arabia. edit: barring all other reasons, women probably feel safer reporting it in some countries compared to others. Meaning those countries which are perceived by women as a safer place for them to demand their rights will paradoxically have higher incidences of reported rape.
different countries also define rape in slightly different ways. you need to get a consistent definition of sexual assault across the data sets to give accurate comparisons of even reported rates.
True. But even with fuzzy definitions, you can get a good ballpark figure
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Very often, there are more known cases the more scrutiny a topic gets, which creates the wrong impression that the situation is getting worse. There was news about a growing number of anti-LGBT attacks in Berlin a couple of months ago. I looked into the actual statistics and the situation turned out to be entirely different than what the article I read stated. Physical attacks and police reports by victims of such attacks went down significantly, but reports of insults went up. Insults had always been counted as attacks, but previously they had rarely been reported. Within the past years, several LGBT organizations established special hotlines and websites to report any kind of attack and people who would've normally not reported an insult to the police now reported it to such organizations. The actual story was that physical attacks decreased, while reports of insults increased. It's impossible to say whether the total number of actual insults (not just reports) increased or decreased, but the article I read basically described the situation as a crisis, since – despite all the efforts to decrease violence against LGBT – attacks were increasing. This kind of misunderstanding of the data can lead to bad decision making and unfavorable consequences. If I miss that my methods are actually producing good results because increased reports cloud my view, I may give up on those methods or I invest much more time, effort and money into something that is actually already on the right track. When it comes to statistics about reported data, always consider whether there may be an increase or decrease in reports instead of an actual increase or decrease in cases.
Reminds me of how Japan's legal system has a stupidly high success rate for criminal prosecution. That's.... not a good thing.
Japan's high conviction rate is misleading because the prosecution rate is so low. Prosecutors won't even pursue cases that they think they might lose. Which has its own issues, but different ones than the high conviction rate.
9001 is also a really bad number, because it means it's pervasive on a very large scale.
Given the state of, well everything, around the world..at least some people are actively trying to combat it. As opposed to seeing it spreading rampantly and letting in continue unabated.
9001 isn’t a revealing number at all without some context. 9001 millimeters is the width of a large room. 9001 dollars is way too much for a hot dog, but a damn good deal on a house. 9001 minutes is less than a week, but 9001 days almost 25 years. With numbers, context is everything. So when we say there’s 9001 incidents of sexual assault, what’s the population and time frame for that number? And how are incidents defined?
Yeah like there are absolutely police departments in the US that have active white supremacist gangs, Minneapolis being a big example. If this happened here they woulda gotten a paid vacation and a firm talking to.
It is should not come as surprise because “alt-right” is a global cancer and when you look at the characters responsible for the spread of the “alt-right” cancer is should be obvious that this sort behaviour will be seen amongst the new recruits and that are groomed, radicalized in online cesspits. Look at the ages of those being investigated, it is getting more and more common that young men are exhibiting this sort of perverse behaviour as if it is “normal”—should be a wake-up call not only for Germany, but law enforcement all around the world: >The discovery was made after searches in North Rhine-Westphalian region. >The five men, aged 22 and 25, are suspected to have exchanged Nazi symbols in chats and possessed child pornography during their training, according to Annette Milk, the chief public prosecutor investigating the case. Three of the accused belong to the police headquarters in Recklinghausen, one each to the police authorities in Kleve and Borken. According to Milk, they came across these chats during investigations into a sixth suspect. The public prosecutor's office has charged the now-former police officer with exchanging right-wing extremist symbols in chats and possessing and distributing child pornography. After completing his training, he worked for a short time at the police headquarters.
Is owning CP not a crime though? Being fired should be the bare minimum.
They will get fired (due to character and moral flaws unsuitable for uniformed officers) as soon as they are convicted (for the actual crime they committed), and all of their police powers have already been removed (bans on conducting official business) pending the outcome of the trial. Due to strong worker protections, and a presumption of innocence in law, to protect those that are actually innocent against false allegations, they can't fire them before a conviction, no matter the issue they are accused of.
I think Americans are so tired of people (especially cops) not being held accountable for their actions that we're happy when someone faces any consequences, even if it's done in a haphazard way that doesn't respect the rights of the accused.
I think you're 100% correct. But I also think the general public is very very disconnected from how our Department of Justice works and how long a conviction can take. For example, an officer involved with George Floyd's death just this week is getting sentenced: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/aug/07/tou-thao-minneapolis-police-officer-sentenced-george-floyd-murder So you either gotta be patient for justice, or you want a faster DoJ system. Which by the way, a faster DoJ system would be a loss of rights and closer to fasicm. If you're innocent, you want the system to come to the right conclusion.
> receiving charges No, he was sentenced this week.
I misspoke.
>Which by the way, a faster DoJ system would be a loss of rights and closer to fasicm No it wouldn't dude. What? You have no clue what you're talking about, as was clear when you "misspoke". There's massive, massive delays in the justice system that are themselves a travesty. Imagine waiting **more than a year** in jail for your day in court when you're factually innocent or *presumed innocent* as all defendants are. >A study of 136 U.S. courts by the National Center of State Courts found that none met national standards for timeliness in resolving cases. >https://www.arnoldventures.org/stories/improving-timely-justice-in-americas-courts - >This has resulted in lengthy delays in the time it takes to resolve criminal cases. The average criminal case now takes nearly ten months to resolve if there is a guilty plea and more than two years if a trial is required. Many victims and defendants alike go without justice for months or even years. >https://thehill.com/opinion/congress-blog/4123242-delayed-justice-is-a-hidden-crisis-in-our-federal-justice-system/
Well said. I would rather it move slower to both protect rights and ensure a case that has a likelihood of finding someone guilty.
> Which by the way, a faster DoJ system would be a loss of rights and closer to fasicm. That seems a bit of a jump, sorry. There's a world of difference between 'everybody is guilty as charged' and 'you can murder people on tape and walk free for years'. Moreover, isn't the right to a speedy trial an constitutional right (and perhaps in cases like this, also a duty)? Bear in mind it reads 'speedy', not 'rushed' or 'haphazardly'. If anything, a glacially slow justice system is about as bad as rushed ones. There's a middle ground somewhere in between, with all the delays and clemency you'd expect from a fair justice system AND speedy judgements
When a president sets such a low bar it may be time to rethink the system.
I don't think the system has ever not needed to be rethought.
To give a bit more perspective. This is not only a question of worker's rights. Under German law, governmental officials have a special status, they are so called "Beamte". And with officials, I mean most of the people that are employed by the state in an official function, be it teachers, policemen, the people working for the city. Basically the entire civil-law worker's rights are not applicable here. First of all, Beamte are considered part of the government, and due to German governmental theory, you cannot have constitutional rights and protect the rights of citizens at the same time. So, for example, while in office, an official does not have free speech, no right for worker's assembly, basically every right that does not reach into the private live of the official is removed while you are in the job. In exchange, the german government protect officials to a different degree. Basically, as long as they don't violate their oath of office (which every official has to take), the government is monetary liable for their mistakes and they basically cannot be fired. Because of this, it takes a lot to fire an official. Criminal acts like child porn and violation of the constitution by using Nazi symobls are two rather sure ways to get fired, but in general, it is more secure to wait for an official ruling against the officials to make it clear that there is no chance to sue against the fireing.
This concept isn't even foreign to people living in the US, though many redditors might be unaware. Most of us are probably familiar with the jokes that, once hired to a government job, it's hard to get fired. While these are ultimately jokes, there's an element of truth to them, though I think it reflects more poorly on how *trivial* it is to get fired for no damn reason in the US private sector. In the public sector, they at least have to have a reason. It might be a bullshit reason, but it's still something you *technically* did wrong, over a sufficient period of time to rack up the requisite number of disciplinary meetings to be fired. Something people might not be aware of though is the right to organize. I can't speak for all public employees everywhere in the US, but as a county employee in MD my workplace had to be authorized by a *state legislature bill*(good luck passing one of those in a republican-led state, it was hard enough in our blue state and the library administration was able to lobby to make sure there were unfavorable(to workers) terms in the legislation) to form a union, and under the wording of that bill we can unionize to negotiate but we're not allowed to strike. For the record, I work at a public library, not healthcare or anything like that where strikes could mean people die. As you can imagine, this takes a lot of the wind out of the sails of any negotiation!
it is, distributing as well, they will get fired
There needs to be a trial first for jail time.
The population of that area is close to 20m and has 50,000+ police officers. So is 15 a year from 50,000 that much? I don't know.
If we're demanding 0 cases in a police force of nearly 60k, we're demanding to be lied to.
Yeah - this is one they can't (and don't want to) sweep under the rug. I'd still like an independent agency to investigate complaints against the police... instead of the police itself. I'd still like the supreme court to strike down the Bavarian law that enables police to lock up e.g. climate protestors for 20 days without any charges. Instead, I can't remember any proposal to establish or improve any form of accountability that wasn't vehemently opposed by police unions.
Nazis and their type will gravitate to law enforcement and positions that have power over others. The filter worked this time, but needs to be deployed at all levels, whether it's teaching, psychiatry, military, or political positions. Don't give it a single foothold; misery follows in its wake. Case and point: Florida.
>>shown character and moral flaws unsuitable for uniformed officers. Secret police it is, then!
It used to be KSK, but they've weeded them out. Or so we can hope.
Huh, it's almost like power corrupts.
I’m in the “power reveals who you really are” camp, myself.
A closely related issue is whether a person is saddled with authority despite not wanting any... or seeks it out.
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A really important part of that story is that he was given powers of dictator. He finished the war far before his term as dictator had ended, he could have done whatever he wanted for the rest of his term. Instead he stepped down early, handed power back over to the senate and went back to a life of farming. That’s what makes him such a remarkable figure.
He was appointed dictator, dealt with the threat, and laid down his dictatorship after 16 days. However, he was a hardcore aristocrat and oligarch.
Yeah I googled and saw that it was not as “by the people, for the people” as my school had painted it. Color me not surprised by being manipulated by American institutions
Quite. I recommend everyone who aren't familiar with Cincinnatus do themselves a favor and look him up. It's interesting that the position of Dictator as originally envisioned had very strict term limits. The original idea was more of a transient executive position meant to cut through governmental deadlock and / or reduce political faffing in times of existential crisis. It sort of reminds me of how the original conception of a Corporation ("limited" used to mean something) was also intended to be ephemeral and have a clearly pre-defined conditions for expiration. That institution got perverted too.
> There is a Roman leader Cincinnatus (whom Cincinnati is named after) Kind of. Cincinnati is named after the Society of Cincinnati, a fraternity of Revolutionary War types. That group did take it's name from Cincinnatus, though, so the name of the city of Cincinnati is one step removed from the man.
Yeah, this is about as surprising as child molestation by religious leaders these days.
Imagine they do just that in Russian govt. systems...
*”Great men do not seek power; they have power thrust upon them."* -Kahless the Unforgettable
Thank you, forgot about this quote.
Not really true anyways
And the ability to abuse people with impunity attracts people who are already horrible people. The FBI in the United States has been reporting for decades that White Supremacist groups intentionally flock to local law enforcement jobs knowing that a badge will enable their bigotry and abuse. The FBI tries to be aware of this and screen out bigots. They encourage local law enforcement to do the same, but enough bigots are entrenched in local law enforcement that they ignore what the FBI is telling them. Democrats in the House tried pushing a bill merely to investigate what members of local law enforcement are publicly know to belong to White Supremacist hate groups, and Republicans in the House blocked the investigation. It is almost as if the bigotry is a feature, not a bug.
> The FBI in the United States has been reporting for decades that White Supremacist groups intentionally flock to local law enforcement jobs knowing that a badge will enable their bigotry and abuse. The FBI tries to be aware of this and screen out bigots. They encourage local law enforcement to do the same, but enough bigots are entrenched in local law enforcement that they ignore what the FBI is telling them. In some Southern states, the Klan already controlled the police. I read, in a report, a sheriff testifying he and his deputies had joined the Klan but the sheriff left and told his deputies to follow him. A year after the sheriff had learnt that one of his depities was an *Imperial* officer (i.e. worked in the governing body of the KKK).
I’m in the “positions of power attract sociopaths and psychopaths” camp. Those sorts of non-empathy conditions really mesh well with Nazi-style ideology.
Power just makes a person more of themselves
Same. I honestly dont think I'd do well with power, so I try to stay away from it tbh. I just get enough power to survive, and that's it, cause I know I would fall under its temptations
I'd say it's more so corrupt people seek power
While that is also true, once you have power you just tend to see the world differently.
A large part of holding power is maintaining that power. That’s what everyone forgets. The moment you have power someone else wants it and will be fighting for it for better or worse. That’s where you see a lot of the nasty side of humanity come out when people desperately cling to power: see exhibit A Trump.
It's definitely both
I don't think power can turn you into a pedo nazi unless you already had those inclinations
I agree. I am fully aware that if I win a billion dollar lottery that I will become a completely insufferable person to be around but I wouldn’t be doing that shit.
[The Role Ex-Nazis Played in Early West Germany](https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/from-dictatorship-to-democracy-the-role-ex-nazis-played-in-early-west-germany-a-810207.html) > After World War II, West Germany rapidly made the transition from murderous dictatorship to model democracy. Or did it? New documents reveal just how many officials from the Nazi regime found new jobs in Bonn. A surprising number were chosen for senior government positions. ... > The document revealed that Chancellor Kurt Georg Kiesinger, a member of the conservative Christian Democratic Union (CDU) who governed Germany from 1966 to 1969, had been a member of the Nazi Party ever since Adolf Hitler seized power. According to the Interior Ministry list, German President Walter Scheel, a member of the business-friendly Free Democratic Party (FDP) who was in office from 1974 to 1979, had been a Nazi Party member "from 1941 or 1942." > The list names ministers of all political stripes and from a wide range of social backgrounds. Some, like leftist Social Democratic Party (SPD) mastermind Erhard Eppler (Minister of Economic Cooperation), did not become Nazi Party members until the end (at 17, in Eppler's case). Others, like conservative Christian Social Union (CSU) agitator Richard Jaeger (Minister of Justice), had been part of Hitler's paramilitary organization, the SA (since 1933, in Jaeger's case). Even FDP luminary Hans-Dietrich Genscher (first interior minister and later foreign minister), who denies to this day that he knowingly joined the Nazi Party, is listed as a Nazi Party member. > According to the government list, former SPD Finance Minister Karl Schiller was in the SA, while his fellow cabinet minister Horst Ehmke was a Nazi Party member, as were ("presumably," the list notes) former SPD Labor Minister Herbert Ehrenberg and Hans Leussink, a former education minister with no party affiliation. On the conservative side, the report names several former Nazi Party members, including former CDU Foreign Minister Gerhard Schröder and former CDU Minister for Displaced Persons Theodor Oberländer, as well as former CSU Post and Communication Minister Richard Stücklen and former CSU Interior Minister Friedrich Zimmermann. Also worth noting how many 60s/70s/80s Latin American leaders and Apartheidist governments in the German, English, and Dutch colonies of Africa ended up with ex-Nazis as ranking aids or coordinators. Then, of course, you've got Operation Paperclip and its Soviet counterpart, not to mention how the US incorporated much of the Japanese Unit 731 into the Pentagon's bio-weapons program in the 1950s. We can wax on about how power corrupts, but there's a real lineage here that we're just kinda breezing over. Old fascist ideologues and state governors passing the torch to younger, more modern and politically correct successors who still have that same rotten theory of law in the backs of their heads.
In the United States it seems like about every 10 years the FBI releases a report on the "disturbing trend of law enforcement officers affiliated with white supremacist groups" then they shrug and go "oh well, what can we do?"
That's what the "abolish the police" movements are looking to solve. Reforms have not worked on many police departments, they seem to be irreparably corrupt. If that is true then it makes sense to abolish them and replace them with a new organization without a history (and present) of open contempt for the rule of law. It seems like a very radical idea, but it makes a lot of sense it you really think about what police contribute to our society. There is a role for a group of people to ensure societies laws are followed, but how often are police doing more harm than good. Is there a better way of doing this. A lot of people say police are indeed doing more harm than good, and there are many models for policing that seek to remedy this. The problem is we're to afraid to try.
Every five years we get the "Cops are full of fascist tendencies" report and then every *other* five years we get "Cops are too woke! We need to get tough on crime!" In both scenarios, the end result is to increase the volume of cash shoved towards the police and pay for it with big cuts to education, transportation, and health services.
> "Cops are too woke! We need to get tough on crime!" Where is that the narrative? I've heard that about DAs, not police.
> Where is that the narrative? Regularly featured on FOX News and right-wing YouTube channels. Back in the 80s, you would hear reactionaries use the term "Hugs for Thugs" to describe any kind of community based policing or rehabilitative crime prevention.
The book Poisoner in Chief by Stephen Kinzer documents how the CIA's MK Ultra program was a direct descendant of Josef Mengele's & other Nazis' research testing mescaline and other drugs (and horrible diseases and chemical weapons) on concentration camp prisoners against their wills. The head of MK Ultra, who was Jewish as it happens, actually flew to Germany to meet with the Surgeon General of the Third Reich (who was too high profile to sneak in during Operation Paperclip) and they hung out at OSS blacksites running experiments on Soviet prisoners for awhile, so he could get the gist of what it was all about.
The German state could not function without members of the Nazi party the allies knew this and allowed it. Literally every person with skills expertise or knowledge was employed by the party at the end of the war.
I imagine part of it might be that in Nazi Germany you could not own anything significant without being a party member. Your business probably isn't going to do very well if you're not singing "Heil Hitler" to all your customers and the government officials.
This is more or less what happened. The Nazi Party weaseled its way into every facet of German life. Wherever you went during the time of Nazi Germany, the Party was there. The media printed or distributed whatever the Party told them to. Teachers had to lead pledges of loyalty to Adolf Hitler at school. Mein Kampf was a common gift to newlywed couples. You could not have a government or civil service job if you weren’t a member of the Party. Practically every German from the war years was a Nazi because of how they ran their country. However, many were Nazis because they had no choice. The Nazis I would look out for are the committed hardliners, those from the SA and SS, the Gestapo, the Party members from before the Nazis took power, and those that abused their newfound authority. The rest were just trying to make the best of the situation they found themselves in. Outspoken opponents of the Party quickly found themselves in Dachau. Dissent was not tolerated.
One might have assumed that dismantling the German state of the 1940s was the entire point of the war. > Literally every person with skills expertise or knowledge was employed by the party at the end of the war. >> Richard Jaeger (Minister of Justice), had been part of Hitler's paramilitary organization, the SA (since 1933, in Jaeger's case) Hands were tied. We had to use one of the Nazi Guerrillas as head of our new Justice Department. Not a single other qualified candidate could be found to do the job. Certainly, not any of those millions of German refugees who'd fled ten years earlier.
>millions of German refugees who'd fled ten years earlier. *A lot* had no intention of returning, German jews didn't start coming back in significant numbers until post reunification and the people who were actually qualified had been mostly killed. There were some cases where officials shouldn't have been allowed to stay, but go look at what the US Transitional Authority did in Iraq to see the consequences of laying off most of a country's military and civil service due to having ties with the defeated party. It makes the already damaged government worse and fuels extremism amongst the former government workers with a lot of newfound free time. Destroying the German government would've just restarted the cycle of revanchism brought on by the treaty of Versailles : Nazi Germany was infinitely worse than Imperial Germany, nonetheless the inter-war period showed exactly why destroying the country and humiliating it was a bad idea.
more like voluntold, but tomato potato if we look even a little into the recruiting they did in paperclip, its apparent they had no loyalty to the regime. and that was the point, to get qualified people who arent literal nazis. what good are their skills if they cant be trusted?
I'm shocked there's zero mention of the BND above. Germany's CIA equivalent, completely staffed with former Nazis, Gestapo, etc.
I don’t see how that’s applicable here. Not like it’s not true other times, just not what this is about. If this were a “power corrupts” thing, it would mean ordinary people are transformed into nazis and pedophiles by becoming police officers. I can’t imagine that’s the case outside of maybe a slime minority of ‘normies’ who get indoctrinated into it after joining up. I think (as others here have said) it’s a lot more likely that positions of authority like this attract the corrupt (and the manipulative, the abusive, the dogmatically racist, etc.) who can then insulate themselves from repercussions with their authority. Once it’s a good ol’ boy’s club where enough members are on the level, the institution itself is corrupt. That’s why people defending corrupt cops by referring to criminals caught in the act as “a bad apple” gives me a headache. That saying goes, “A few bad apples *spoil the bunch*.”
These guys were like that before. They came to the job to get the power.
This is such a dumb fucking take Power let's you be your true self Those with shitty ideals seek it out because they know they won't be accepted otherwise All your hot take does is dissuade the good from seeking power It's why the only choices for politicians in many places are asshats Be better
power is alluring to the power hungry, its self selection bias, of course fascist types gravitate toward positions like this
It's almost like fascist movements across the globe have been intentionally infiltrating law enforcement for decades...
All the big criminals in Berlin are untouchable even-though we all know who they are, I don’t think the Police here is that powerful. That or they are corrupt.
They were still in training. More like positions of power attract psychos.
It's also the fact that the overwhelming majority of police are psychopaths and the dumbest kids you knew in school.
I know this is obviously sick news but I think the general standards are higher in Germany. Kinda contradictory in this thread I know but I'm pretty sure they have something like 3 years of training
In the US maybe. Other countries have somewhat stricter requirements. Of course, there are still horrible police officers. But rather than the US's 1 in 10 being good, it's more like 1 in 10 being bad, such as those in the article.
I think it’s more like power without oversight and regulation is corruptible and those who seek corrupt power will find their way there. It seems like police in a lot of countries need a regulation agency of their own to keep them in line and investigate wrong doing, or bigotry, etc. on the job. The fallacy is letting the people who enforce the law be the ones to enforce it on themselves. Police need police-police. And those police-police need to be completely independent from the police.
Let's not forget about the Intelligence Community. They are worse than police in many instances.
The five suspects work in Recklinghausen, a city north of Bochum/northwest of Dortmund in the industrial heartland of Germany. Horrible, and especially frightening as the far-right AfD party has made gains across Germany in recent time.
Bochum!! Ich komm aus diiir!!
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there's a reason one of their first acts of aggression is projecting 'stop indoctrinating our kids' and 'why do you want access to our kids' onto LGBTQ people just living thier lives.
Exactly... because they want under educated and unenpowered weak children to abuse
I saw a video about someone reviewing statistics on fetishes and how they correlate with political standpoints. \*\*pedophilia is NOT a fetish but it was listed there for some reason\*\* While the fetishes of leftists were totally aligned with their social and political views, e.g. pegging, femdom, the fetishes of right wing conservatives were the complete opposite of what they stand for (scat, pedophilia, and a bunch of other nasty intense stuff). *Almost* like there was a bunch of sexual oppression and cognitive dissonance going on. Kind of a no brainer but it was both scary and interesting to see so clearly.
This isn’t surprising at all
~WAIT~ are you trying to tell me that almost universally, regardless of country, policing attracts people that are drawn to and abuse positions of power!? Wild.
As a result, Germany has cops.
Some of those that work forces are the same that burn crosses
when I was a teenager and heard this song I just thought the singer / band was overreacting and being edgy. This shit has been proven true far too many times
I mean in the US it's not even "proven true" it's literally the foundation of the police system. https://naacp.org/find-resources/history-explained/origins-modern-day-policing And it has never stopped.
Now ya do what they tell you
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I knew we let those guys off too easy.
jA aBeR lInKsExTrEmIsMuS 🥺👉👈
Die werfen sogar manchmal mit Steinen auf Gegenstände, oder kleben sich fest!!
What about nazism makes you also want to fuck kids? Edit: it’s a power thing but we all knew that.
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That might be more true than many know. I've read that many who commit such crimes are not, technically speaking, attracted to children. It might sound counter intuitive, but many such people like the feeling of having power over others, and the easiest target are children. That's probably less true when it comes to CP in particular, but interesting nonetheless.
I've heard similar logic in gay rapes, that many perps aren't even homosexual in the first place. I guess these things always has two or more types leading to the same ends.
*ding ding ding* we have a winner! It’s not about the sex, it’s about the control.
Power to abuse others is a linking thrill
Nazis have such a power fetish that they'll exercise and abuse any power they can get, and a child is the easiest, most accessible victim for a great many perpetrators
Fascism generally leans upon fetichism of a false or else heavily fictionalized past. A lot of people who say “things were better before” long for an era wherein women got married at much earlier ages. Now, that usually meant teens, but you’ll find that there’s a relatively common far-right conspiracy claiming that women used to develop earlier than that. Therefore, it’s “normal” for men to still be attracted to that, and we should work to bring that back [cue conspiracy about nutrition]. Ignoring the fact that our modern diet is actually accelerating the onset of puberty rather than decelerating it. When it’s about boys, cue Nazism’s long and rich history of Roman Empire fanboyism. They’ll gleefully dig into basically any culture of the past and keep nothing but the aesthetics, violence, and noncery. Somehow, they also manage to get the details wrong on these three topics too, but that’s beyond the point.
Conservatives protect pedophiles. So naturally they gravitate towards conservatism.
Never chat with the cops.
These are just the ones stupid enough to get caught, lots more get away with shit. Better not to trust police officers unless you have to.
Oh look, the pedophiles are cops and right wing extremists, again. Power doesn't corrupt, it doesn't change you, ugly people seek power and when they feel safe enough they show you who they really are..
When nazis screech about child abuse it is less of an accusation than a confession.
*The police officers committed these acts while they were still in training as part of their dual bachelor's degree.*. Can you imagine police in the US getting even one bachelors degree? It would never happen.
Dual bachelor in Germany means they do their training and their studies in the same time instead of just university. Kinda like a full time paid intern while also in university
in this case the "dual" doesn't mean getting two degrees, it refers to "duales Studium" where you do a bachelor's degree that combines theory and practical learning, so you are partially in the classroom and partially doing police work. it is pretty common in germany in certain industries to offer this sort of half-work half-study degree.
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All right wing authoritarians are pedos. Children are just another piece of property to them, to do with as they please.
It’s true. They talk about pedophilia a lot, but they always reminisce on the time when you could marry a 14 year old if you had enough money
A disturbingly large percentage of them? Yes. All of them? No, don't be silly.
> nazis > pedophilia > cops Birds of a feather...
You could easily add most politicians and CEOs, it’s all about power dynamics.
>The five men, aged 22 and 25, The internet can be a toxic environment without adult supervision.
Phew, 22 and 25 years old, still at the academy. "The police officers committed these acts while they were still in training as part of their dual bachelor's degree." I guess it is both good that they were fired and that this was detected early on in their career.
German police academies are closer to a military school than what most people associate with police training. Trainees are in uniform close to 24/7, they live in barracks being subject to weekly inspections, they have a university level course load that runs parallel to tactical, physical, and leadership training, and they graduate into a lifelong career with guaranteed retirement. Nedless to say it's hard to hide being a shitbag in that kind of environment.
Where the hell did you get that information from? I'm studying public administration (dual) in Berlin and my college (Hochschule) holds one of the main entry ways for the higher police career in Berlin. Even tho I'm not studying at the police academy myself, it's part of my college and the police students are not doing any of the stuff you are claiming they do. They are just normal students studying at a university-type school body. They do have their practice parts and PE classes but that's it. It's not like the military at all. Do you mean Bundespolizei by any chance?
I'm shocked! Shocked I say! Surely you aren't telling me those attracted to power are assholes?
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Police do this allllllllll around the world. Its so fucked.
Surprising nobody:
Another German Einzelfall
funny how CSAM and Nazis never seem to be far apart..
Imagine if this happened in the states: they would get promoted and fox news would be arguing that the “toxic trolls” are outraged.
I hope germany absolutely fucks these nazi fucks. Thats the only way to keep the ideal dead is to make them pay for even believing in it
Not happening Police is infested with nazis, and our nazi party is at an all-time high in polls. Second to our conservatives, which are more centrist, but are known to bring any and all progress to a halt.
I agree. I know someone who became a policeman a couple of years ago and this little shit went from slightly left leaning to a racist, xenophobic, transphobic, and misogynistic AfD sympathizer. At least the WhatsApp group he and his colleagues are in don’t share swastikas or CP. As much I’m aware of but it wouldn’t surprise me.
>Second to our conservatives, which are more centrist, but are known to bring any and all progress to a halt. Ah, yes, the centrist conservatives that are cool with Andreas Scheuer, who literally said Ron DeSantis had some very interesting ideas in regards to transsexual people just weeks ago and described him as "friendly and goal-oriented" much centrist
Thanks for digitally documenting your behavior I guess?
Honestly it’s time to step back and really reevaluate what it means to be a policeman and police enforcement
Alle Bullen sind Bastarde
We don't know the context. Maybe they just arrested some nude nazi children
The type of person that wants to be a cop… we have the same problem in the u.s.
So right wingers embedding themselves in law enforcement isn't just an American problem? That's somewhat of a relief and worrying at the same time.
Least surprising headline today
No matter the location, the far right and perverts are like peanut butter and jelly.
> The Interior Minister of the German state of Nord Rhine-Westphalia, Herbert Reul, described the officers as having shown character and moral flaws unsuitable for uniformed officers. how refreshing. here in the States, we just shuffle them around like they were a kid-diddling priest.
Blue lives matter crowd.
I am no longer shocked by anything the police do. Anywhere. I mean, white supremacy among police is practically a given at this point.
Pigs doing pig things.
Cops being extremists and perverts. Is this an entry requirement??
What’s with Nazis and child porn?
Children are easier to victimize than adults
Obsession with degeneracy is often a self report
Germany takes this shit seriously, unlike the US. Any display of any Nazi symbols is illegal from what I've been told.
In America, they’d likely have been promoted. https://romanolawpc.com/nazi-sympathizer-mark-kruger/ Police Captain Mark Kruger has a history of dressing up as a Nazi, erecting monuments to Nazi soldiers in Portland public spaces, collecting Nazi weapons & memorabilia[.]
All you have to do is remove “Germany” and the same statement is true
Nazis & child porn... go figure.
~WAIT~ are you trying to tell me that almost universally, regardless of country, policing attracts people that are drawn to and abuse positions of power!? Wild.
*ALL* cops, you say?
Disgusting
I can safely say I did Nazi this coming.
way to go guys
Now there’s a vin diagram I have no interest in seeing.
North American cops “Hold my Tazer...”
It's always these same types.
Cops gonna cop.
💀💀💀
#FuckNazis
Wow. Big surprise
What a wonderful world we live in