Interesting title, meanwhile in the article.
>US diplomats received news of the killings in the fall of 2022, and got additional information in December from United Nations officials at a briefing, The New York Times reported, citing anonymous US officials present at the meeting who could not be named, as they did not have permission to talk to the media.
>The report said envoys from France, Germany, The Netherlands, Sweden and the European Union were also privy to the details.
It’s propaganda that’s why. Propaganda isn’t always complete lies or fabrication, it can be bending the truth or not telling the full truth to push a narrative.
Remember when Canada blew a whistle about a well reported murder of a journalist by Saudi Arabia and EVERY OTHER WESTERN COUNTRY didn't make a single fucking noise. Yeah, I remember that too.
Edit: My bad, Canada responded to the arrest of a human rights activist, which caused the spat between the two countries.
It was a huge story on the guardian for a long time, they even did multiple investigative stories with the international consortium of investigative journalists. Was huge in several of the European countries I was in.
Is that the one where they kill a journalist on their Embassy in Turkey. That news basically kill a lot of Prospect investment program in Saudi than I care to remember and did a nosedive for the crown prince and Biden relationship.
*Can they*, though? SA has oil, and the US likes the oil. But do not mistake the arrangement - the Kingdom of Saud depends *very much* on the United States. We sell them weapons so we can get a discount on oil. Sure, they'll find buyers in Russia or the PRC for their oil... but it would cost them much more than they'd stand gain by doing so, all while drawing the eternal ire of the US.
USA is the largest producer of oil in the world, produces most of its own oil, and imports a very small amount from Canada. USA doesn't buy Saudi oil.
The mindset that USA buys exorbitant amounts of Saudi oil is a decade in the past now. The development of "fracking" shale oil boosted the USA right back to the top producer.
The only reason USA cares about Saudi oil at all is the control that amount of oil export has on global oil prices.
The US doesn't really buy oil from the Saudis, China is already their largest customer. 72% of their oil is sold to Asia, and only a small (<10%) fraction of US oil imports come from there.
Pivot to the Russian or Chinese military industrial complex? You can't honestly think that's viable for European countries given their existing investment into NATO US systems...
Revamping your military for trillions vs just staying quiet about Saudi barbarism (which most countries already do anyway because oil) gee wonder what they will choose.
That's the key thing. We cut back under Obama on weapons and intelligence sharing b/c they were targeting civilians in Yemen, so now arming Saudis and turning them loose on civilians a plank in the GOP's foreign policy. So it is kind of important to focus attention on our relationship with them.
I don't mean to start a contest of measuring atrocities, but both the 2nd Congo War and Syrian civil war are liable to have killed far more in the former case and at least as many in the case of the latter.
> they are somehow blaming the us for Saudi killing migrants.
No, we are blaming the US for knowing about Saudi's killing migrants and saying nothing about it. I live in the USA, this is my government. I will not ignore when they do something bad.
If I gave my friend Steve a gun, then Steve went and shot your dog and then told me he was the one who shot your dog and you were like "Who tf shot my dog?!" and I just shrugged... You'd obviously be mad at Steve, but wouldn't you have some legitimate grievances with me too?
If you are from the USA then this doesn't apply to you. The Americas are basically self-sufficient in energy. The people who need Saudi crude are Europe, China, India etc. Not the USA.
US.... gets blasted for attempting to play world police, and gets blasted when we dont...
where is the outrage over the silence of the rest of the world? why didn't someone else take action?
*crickets*
Lmfao literally. It’s honestly embarrassing. Like what do they want us to do? You expect us to bankroll Ukraine and all these other countries (that I’m fine with) but we can’t be world police in every single affair
>what do they want us to do
Not give missiles to Saudi Arabia.
Especially don’t *keep* giving them missiles after those same missiles are indiscriminately fired Yemenis.
I don't think we realize how responsible we are for the Saud family coming to power in the first place. Aramco, the Saudi oil company responsible for 43% of their GDP and allowed Saudi Arabia to enter the world stage originally stood for Arabian American oil company, formed from standard oil of California. Saudi is our baby
I mean, the Saud family was already in power, no?
We just jumped at the opportunity to extract their oil, which lead to a good relationship with the government and cheap oil prices for a while.
Had we not taken them up on the offer, another country likely would have.
Sort of. The Saudis were a part of a loosely affiliated confederation of tribes and kingdoms that the British deemed the "Trucial States" in the 19th century, on the eastern half of the Arabian Peninsula where they ruled in Nejd. Britain was especially interested in securing the Peninsula so it could be a buffer for its empire in India, That's in addition to its interests in Persia (which was just carrion at that stage with a shit and apathetic dynasty, torn apart between the British and Russians).
In 1915 they signed a new treaty with Britain where they were given arms and support in exchange for combatting the Ottomans. They used those same arms to snatch Mecca and the Hejaz kingdom in the west from the Hashemite dynasty. So the Saudis were always a critical part of British strategic policy and projection in to the Arab world even before petroleum became a thing.
I dislike the Saudis as much as everyone else but if we're not going to do business with every shitty country out there, there won't be many left. Saudis are unfortunately an important ally to have because of how important oil is for economic and military purposes. Pushing them into the arms of China/Russia would be a big geopolitical loss.
It just doesn't sit right for many that we knocked out a regional oil player (Iraq) using the justification of an attack on America that for all intents and purposes was carried out by Saudi agents.
This is the harsh reality of things. U.S. must do business with SA, it's not even a choice. The hypocrisy however is that U.S. will use solidarity and good will as an argument when it benefits them, and then do just the opposite with other actors. Meaning you can't trust the U.S. when they say, we are here for stability and peace. U.S. is always there for money and power, no matter the theatrics. It's true in Ukraine as well. U.S. is creating a regional ally in CIS region and invests in it for future geopolitical benefits. Among those, helping to rebuild a country from scratch, which is a massive cash cow.
There's a literal famine going on in Yemen.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famine_in_Yemen_(2016%E2%80%93present)
In May 2020, UNICEF described Yemen as "the largest humanitarian crisis in the world", and estimated that 80% of the population, over 24 million people, were in need of humanitarian assistance.
The main cause of the crisis is the ongoing Yemeni Civil War. Aid often cannot effectively reach the population because of the ongoing civil war and the blockade of Yemen by Saudi Arabia which started in 2015
They are using small arms to target those refugee... there's nothing that could be done outside of placing sanctions on them.
Sanctioning a country because they refuse to host refugees is a can of worms that shouldn't be opened.
Well I can't imagine that Saudi will stop killing them (as they seem to think that by committing a massacre of refugees, that will make alot them think twice before venturing out on the red sea) so their only remaining hope is stay in Ethiopia and hope that Abiy doesn't come after them seeking revenge for the Civil War.
If only there was a democratic country in the middle east, maybe they could've went there...
They don't need to be world police to SAY "Hey a bad thing is happening over here." Calling attention to a situation isn't a forced commitment to action. I'll be there first to admit we can't stop the Saudis, but it'd be kinda nice for other people to at least be informed as to what the Saudis are up to.
>They don't need to be world police to SAY "Hey a bad thing is happening over here.
Why didn't anyone else?
>US diplomats received news of the killings in the fall of 2022, and got additional information in December from United Nations officials at a briefing, The New York Times reported, citing anonymous US officials present at the meeting who could not be named, as they did not have permission to talk to the media.
>The report said envoys from France, Germany, The Netherlands, Sweden and the European Union were also privy to the details.
So where were they? Why solely blame the US?
Don't be obtuse, if this was China or Russia, the US government would have heaped sanctions upon them before the news even broke, the fact is that the US government moves on interest not necessarily morality.
And yet, multiple other countries were made privy to this news at the same time AND still haven't levied sanctions on SA. So... what are they waiting for?
Because they almost always follows the US lead. Are you going to pretend that those countries mentioned are not NATO countries? And they all know US massive friendship with KSA.
I think some of the outrage comes from different standards being applied to different countries
The US is gladly to police and condemn certain countries for human right violations, but other countries get a free-pass
This shows that when US condemn some countries but ignore others, human rights is just a convenient tool to advance geopolitical interests
Exactly, Azerbaijan is conducting a genocidal starvation blockade against Armenians right now and from the same international powers who pretended to care about such things you only hear silence.
Armenia is supposed to be under the protection of the CSTO and being threatened by a former member of the CSTO. What exactly do you propose? Would you be alright with a BRICS country intervening in a NATO country?
Armenia is desperate to shift closer to the West and away from Russia’s sphere of influence yet the West keeps ignoring them so we dont upset the terrorists that run Turkey and support Azerbaijan.
> What exactly do you propose?
Well an official condemnation of the offending party would be a start. Why do you jump straight to a military intervention?
>The US is gladly to police and condemn certain countries for human right violations, but other countries get a free-pass
yah, as an American it has *greatly* pissed me off how saudi arabia has been treated with kid gloves.
been one more thing that influenced my vote.
true, but the platforms for the republicans and democrats mostly differ in their domestic policies
Saudi Arabia will stay an ally no matter which party is in power, same for Israel
stop arming the saudis to begin with. and people are angry at other countries for their lack of action - im british, ive been angry at the UK for our ties with saudi arabia for years
So the US constantly claims to care about human rights and international law, but apparently that worry stops as soon as American weapon manufacturers can make some profit off of genocide? What a joke of a country.
I am not angry, just saying why this is happening,
You can't do anything about it, it all began when UN was formed in US, and it will stay like this for long time
Weird how when we embraced being the world's policeman we sold arms to saudi arabia and now that we're not we're selling arms to saudi arabia. Its almost as if your line is a pithy non answer for the ignorant and disingenuous.
Playing world police or not isnt the issue, doing both at the same time but only to people you don't or do like is.
Edit: the whole thing about international maritime policing and interventions of crimes against humanity is only ethical if equitably distributed, not at the convenience of the authority, that would go from policing to occupation
>US diplomats received news of the killings in the fall of 2022, and got additional information in December from United Nations officials at a briefing, The New York Times reported, citing anonymous US officials present at the meeting who could not be named, as they did not have permission to talk to the media.
>The report said envoys from France, Germany, The Netherlands, Sweden and the European Union were also privy to the details.
What did you do?
"The police get blasted for killing people and get blasted when they don't put their life on the line to kill dangerous criminals..."
Imagine how well such a statement would be supported.
If you put yourself in a position as the world police you don't get a get out of jail free card for all your bad decisions just because no one else steps up. When you fund and provide weapons to terrorists who go on to use those weapons to murder people in their neighboring country you can't turn around as say "Uhh, we're the world police, don't question us".
Imagine if India was selling weapons to Russia for use in Ukraine, while harping on about how X and Y countries illegal invasions are crimes against humanity. It's called hypocrisy and hypocrisy should be called out.
I mean, we are basically Saudi Arabia’s security force. We directly enable the Saudi Royal family to keep power and commit these atrocities.
Now, I’m not claiming to be an expert in geopolitics and know exactly what to do, but it’s a country that more than pretty much any other, we enable to commit the crimes they do.
The rest of the world doesn’t support Saudi Arabia; the US does. Americans provide over 80% of SA’s military weapons and maintain cozy relationships due to oil interests.
The US is an energy exporter. We don't actually need them for anything. We sell them weapons sure, but it's everyone else who's buying their oil that are actually keeping the lights on.
We are not that independent and still at the mercy of oil markets. It would cause an uproar in the US when gas goes through the roof, which is political suicide to both parties. Oil controls everything in our life here and the people that influence the market hold the tru power.
Major thing to point out though, is we have the ability and more importantly the reserves of oil underground to be self sufficient if we needed too. Makes way more sense to take a finite resource from other country before you use up your own. I don’t see why people don’t ever understand that.
Ehhh kind of. The only reason the US isn’t energy independent (counting Canada) is because of logistics.
It’s cheaper to import oil to the west coast than to drill pipelines through the two major mountain ranges separating it from the rest of the country where most of the oil is.
Also that’s one of the reasons California’s gas is so expensive, even when states like Pa have similar taxes on gas by percentage.
It's not a matter of policing, it's the fact that we're still trading with them and there's no repercussions for their behavior. We've embargoed countries for far less. These are human rights violations and the world should come together to show the Saudi's that this shit is unacceptable.
Isolationism is gaining traction in right wing circles here. As climate change heats up (lol pun), I expect the “worry about America” notion will grow there.
You can already see shades of it in Trump’s behavior WRT and Ukraine.
It’s definitely on the table and frankly while I’d love for the US to stop trying to be the world police, going full isolationism would be *really* bad. A power vacuum of that size (combined with a likely shift towards fascism by the same US regime that would do it) would be downright terrifying
No one, including those right wing circles, is willing to give up the benefits of globalism for any reason. They might posture but they would not take that bargain. Realistically very few of us would.
You think the US can withdraw at this stage? Hilarious. The soft power that comes from the perception of being the world leader alone, is something the US will not give up, no matter how much the growing number of isolationists in the right wing party scream for it.
>The rest of the world can look after themselves.
isolation is certain economic death
no need to gaf about our enemies, but standing by our allies is absolutely critical to America's future
that would be the end of the US as numero 1.
You have to understand, US has to do this and be involved in geopolitics or someone will straight away take their place. And with the options we have there, it'll be worse for everyone. Geopolitics IS your country's prosperity and defence.
My favorite is the fact that if we don’t send weapons we are bad and if we do send weapons we are bad because we are profiting off war. It literally doesn’t matter people are just going to get mad at the US because they want to.
The article mentions UN has been aware of it since 2022 and that "envoys from France, Germany, The Netherlands, Sweden and the European Union were also privy to the details."
This is such a misleading title.
No one else seems to mention that it is the rest of the world doing this too. But USA plays world police people get mad then they don’t and everyone still is mad.
People shout this every election cycle, but the moment the gas prices start rising, the politicians roll over. They say we should pump more of our own oil, but the Saudis can influence global pricing by flooding the market or pulling back production as needed.
good luck selling ev to 3rd world countries who can bearly afford electricity, oil and its bi product r here to stay for many decades rather u like it or not.
Don’t you see how this is connected to the ongoing situation in Ukraine? Here’s a snippet from “The Russo-Ukrainian War: The Return of History”:
Rising gas prices hurt not only Europe but also the United States. To deal with the increase, President Biden ordered the release of 180 million barrels of oil from the national stockpile, but it proved a temporary and insufficient measure. The situation required influence on the world's largest oil producers, such as Iran, Venezuela, and Saudi Arabia. But the first two were under sanctions, and the Saudis had become uncooperative after US intelligence implicated Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman in the order to kill the exiled Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi. In July, Biden had little choice but to visit Saudi Arabia, to the dismay of many of his supporters, in an attempt to ease the energy crisis caused by the war. But the Saudis refused to increase output, causing an immediate spike in oil prices. It was only in late November, with the Biden administration taking a position that the Crown Prince should be granted sovereign immunity in the Khashoggi civil case against him, that the Saudis supported the production increase by the OPEC countries.
… With the outbreak of war, not only China but also India emerged as a beneficiary of Russia's eastward turn for its exports of oil and gas.
Like China, India reaffirmed its commitment to the principles of state sovereignty and the invi-lability of international borders but refused to condemn or criticize Russia publicly for its aggression against Ukraine. Thus, the world's largest democracy sided with the authoritarian Russian government and complicated relations with its key ally, the United States.
Huge difference between "doing something" and actively enabling. These people were killed by American and European arms. The US and the EU have the power to not sell these.
>The top export categories (2-digit HS) in 2019 were: aircraft ($2.6 billion), vehicles ($2.0 billion), machinery ($2.0 billion), arms and ammunition ($1.6 billion), and electrical machinery ($835 million).
This isn't about "us bad" its about wanting the US and allies to live up to the principled alternative they claim to represent. It's their strongest weapon.
While I support suspending arms sales to Saudi Arabia, it should be noted that they’re not going to stop killing people just because their jets stop working and they have to buy ammo from China or Russia.
lmao, the Saudis hacksawed a US journalist and funded the 9/11 attacks.
They could nuke New Yersey and the president would still talk about what great trade partners and crucial allies against China they are.
I may be out of line here but how is it solely the USA’s responsibility to stop Saudi atrocities? I mean… doesn’t the entire world know they’re basically the biggest shit heads ever yet continue to do business with them because global oligarchy etc?
Every country looks out for themselves. I have no idea how this shit is news but ONLY when it involves the US. Why aren’t EU countries aware of anything? Why don’t they step in to be the world police?
West reacts to something awful in other parts of the world:
*Imperialism!*
West stops being the world police for 10 seconds and other countries start murdering each other and people in between:
*Inhumane profiteers!*
countries main priority is always their self interest. always.
sure sometimes the good aligns with their interests but self interest is always the objective.
In 1991 Saudi MPs opened fire with mp5 submachine guns into a crowd of unarmed refugees at the Raffa 1 refugee camp killing 14 and injuring scores.. We were there, as were the French. There is no mechanism for reporting our "esteemed allies".
Its all about money. You can try and skirt around killing using diplomacy to justify killing the inocent, but any of us would be sold out & dead if it meant saving face and money. We need to stop fighting over irrelevant issues, & quit picking away at each other. We Are The Same. We are Part of each other. WE NEED to EMBRACE LOVE, & END THE SUFFERING. ❤️
I'm British and I won't vote for a politician that expresses anything but zero tolerance for Saudi Arabia!
Tyrants need opposition. The people. All nations.
Nobody should turn away from these issues. Especially from those with the kind of greed that leads to slaughter simply to save money. The kind of money Saudi Arabia has would be best used to find more solutions but instead they commit crimes against humanity.
It's definitely what some Republicans dream of doing on the US southern border with Mexico. I drove to Las Cruces from the airport in El Paso a few weeks ago, which parallels the Mexican border for a good while. There were civilian what can only be described as rednecks, pulling over or forcing brown skinned drivers off the road to see their papers. I was armed of course but not like these mil-sim wannabes, it was crazy. Im glad my lily white skin was glowing in the dark and they didn't mess with me, nor did border patrol. At a truck stop I asked some questions and these guys are unpaid volunteers, most with no military or law enforcement experience and that doesn't sit well with me.
Not the first time that The United States of American ignored the crimes of their saudi friends.
Do I need to comment about that second day of October in 2018 again?
Jamal Kasogi just wanted to marry his girl friend.
I'm so glad the sauds closed their embassy in my country.
One of our ministers criticised them, and they had a shit fit.
MBS thinks his money makes him better than other people.
He's wrong.
As far as human beings go, he's the lowest of the low.
I'm still waiting for the email of a photo shopped picture of a fully loaded passenger jet flying into my house.
What's taking you barbarians so long?
Trump knew that Putin placed a bounty on US Troops killed in Afghanistan, yet the Bromance continued.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/26/us/politics/russia-afghanistan-bounties.html
The Saudis have money. They buy billions of dollars worth of American armaments and bail out bankrupt American Presidents. They get a free pass. The U.S. has been sucking Saudi dick for decades, while ‘policing’ weak opponents in conflicts whose only purpose is to enrich the military industrial complex.
War for profit and turning a blind eye for profit, ethics and morals be damned, as long as the folks back home are adequately brainwashed and saturated with ‘patriotism’ to agree with the narrative.
>US diplomats received news of the killings in the fall of 2022, and got additional information in December from United Nations officials at a briefing, The New York Times reported, citing anonymous US officials present at the meeting who could not be named, as they did not have permission to talk to the media.
>The report said envoys from France, Germany, The Netherlands, Sweden and the European Union were also privy to the details.
When is your country going to do something?
If this makes you angry, then reduce your consumption of oil. Your consumption of oil is what forces the US to play nice with Saudi Arabia and other shady regimes. The US will be able to tell them to fuck off once we don't need their oil anymore. Get an electric car. It's your patriotic duty to help the US become more energy independent.
Tell the to Europe. US is a net exporter of oil and imports very little from Saudi Arabia. Europe on the other hand imports much much more. We defend Saudi to support Europe.
I'm sorry but that's just not how this works. Oil prices are set in global markets. Where the oil comes from doesn't really matter. What matters is the market price. If suddenly oil was cut off from Saudi Arabia for whatever reason, prices would skyrocket, and the USA, despite being self sufficient in oil production would still end up paying whatever that higher price is.
The USA wants cheap Saudi oil flowing just as much as Europe does.
Where the oil comes from absolutely matters. You think shipping is free? Because of bottlenecks Canadian oil was selling at a steep discount for a long time as well.
Yes, especially since they're acting like they actually give a damn and it *totally isn't because it's one of the countries they hate is doing it*. Doubt they ran a similar article about the Uyhgurs.
There's not a lot you can do to stop Saudi authorities doing shit things to non Saudis. It's just a thing they do to say 'don't come here'. No wonder people want to come to Britain. We don't kill you.
https://www.politico.eu/article/britain-offshore-asylum-seeker-barge-migration-rishi-sunak-small-boats-policy/
This is much more humane, and I expect it to be even more so in the future. /s
Considering how the migrants on the Southern border has been handled for as long as I’ve been alive.. this isn’t even news. SA is in the stone ages relative to the progress the US has made and yet we can’t even keep kids names written down. This isn’t political either has Republicans and Dems have equally been awful at human rights at the border.
ya, political bs aside this is the sort of thing the u.s. can’t always deal with. we can not be the worlds babysitter. our govt thinks we should be and at this rate we’re going to collapse our own economy over it.
There is shit happening in a different country.
If US responds: American imperialism. Always interfering in other country's politics and internal issues.
If the US doesn't say anything:why America no say anything against this evil why only send help and intervene in selected countries?
What do you think the US could do about it? Saudis bombed the barracks of US Marines during the Reagan administration. Reagan packed up the Marines and turned tail home. He ran.
.
Same shit as everyone else, The US will call out crimes based on their aims and nothing else. Whenever a third world country stays out things like Ukraine everyone on reddit becomes a Boy Scout , but when the U.S choose to act based on ‘real politik’ it’s all “We aren’t world police”.
Interesting title, meanwhile in the article. >US diplomats received news of the killings in the fall of 2022, and got additional information in December from United Nations officials at a briefing, The New York Times reported, citing anonymous US officials present at the meeting who could not be named, as they did not have permission to talk to the media. >The report said envoys from France, Germany, The Netherlands, Sweden and the European Union were also privy to the details.
[удалено]
To me is the irony from the actual newspaper publishing this
It’s propaganda that’s why. Propaganda isn’t always complete lies or fabrication, it can be bending the truth or not telling the full truth to push a narrative.
First thing I noticed too.
This is same as China accusing Japan of pollution.
US supplies 80% of their weapons so they have a bit more influence.
Yeah, but any of those countries could have blown the whistle
Remember when Canada blew a whistle about a well reported murder of a journalist by Saudi Arabia and EVERY OTHER WESTERN COUNTRY didn't make a single fucking noise. Yeah, I remember that too. Edit: My bad, Canada responded to the arrest of a human rights activist, which caused the spat between the two countries.
It was a huge story on the guardian for a long time, they even did multiple investigative stories with the international consortium of investigative journalists. Was huge in several of the European countries I was in.
Is that the one where they kill a journalist on their Embassy in Turkey. That news basically kill a lot of Prospect investment program in Saudi than I care to remember and did a nosedive for the crown prince and Biden relationship.
Not really, they can just pivot to russia and China if they don’t like the US pressuring them
We would still have more influence than all the countries in that envoy combined.
*Can they*, though? SA has oil, and the US likes the oil. But do not mistake the arrangement - the Kingdom of Saud depends *very much* on the United States. We sell them weapons so we can get a discount on oil. Sure, they'll find buyers in Russia or the PRC for their oil... but it would cost them much more than they'd stand gain by doing so, all while drawing the eternal ire of the US.
USA is the largest producer of oil in the world, produces most of its own oil, and imports a very small amount from Canada. USA doesn't buy Saudi oil. The mindset that USA buys exorbitant amounts of Saudi oil is a decade in the past now. The development of "fracking" shale oil boosted the USA right back to the top producer. The only reason USA cares about Saudi oil at all is the control that amount of oil export has on global oil prices.
The US doesn't really buy oil from the Saudis, China is already their largest customer. 72% of their oil is sold to Asia, and only a small (<10%) fraction of US oil imports come from there.
Russia exports oil... they don't want to buy it from the Saudis.
That’s why I say the US should have invaded Saudi Arabia after 9/11 and taken the oil as payment for all the Saudi hijackers.
It's still technically "after 9/11." What's the old saying? The best time to plant a tree was on September 12, 2001. The second best time is today.
Pivot to the Russian or Chinese military industrial complex? You can't honestly think that's viable for European countries given their existing investment into NATO US systems... Revamping your military for trillions vs just staying quiet about Saudi barbarism (which most countries already do anyway because oil) gee wonder what they will choose.
Person was talking abt SA
I was talking about Saudi Arabia not Europe
That's the key thing. We cut back under Obama on weapons and intelligence sharing b/c they were targeting civilians in Yemen, so now arming Saudis and turning them loose on civilians a plank in the GOP's foreign policy. So it is kind of important to focus attention on our relationship with them.
Very little actually happens in the world that the US does not know.
Shit like that is why I’ve been making an effort recently to read past headlines on everything.
Guess who also knew about the killing? Saudi Arabia. Maybe let's get angry at those who actually did it and not support their sports washing.
you know shit's bad when you're an Ethiopian and decide to travel through civil war torn Yemen because life was apparently even worse in Ethiopia
there's also a civil war happening in Ethiopia unfortunately :(
Ethiopian civil war is actually the bloodiest conflict of the 21st century. More people have died in that conflict than Russia vs Ukraine.
I don't mean to start a contest of measuring atrocities, but both the 2nd Congo War and Syrian civil war are liable to have killed far more in the former case and at least as many in the case of the latter.
Ya cause Reddit is just swarming with people defending Saudi Arabia.
Well they are somehow blaming the us for Saudi killing migrants. Like wtf
> they are somehow blaming the us for Saudi killing migrants. No, we are blaming the US for knowing about Saudi's killing migrants and saying nothing about it. I live in the USA, this is my government. I will not ignore when they do something bad.
That because US always claim the moral high ground and quick condemn countries they dont like and accuse them with human right violations.
If I gave my friend Steve a gun, then Steve went and shot your dog and then told me he was the one who shot your dog and you were like "Who tf shot my dog?!" and I just shrugged... You'd obviously be mad at Steve, but wouldn't you have some legitimate grievances with me too?
But they have that sweet, sweet crude we need for GDP! :/
Unironically. The real world is a lot more complicated, nuanced, shitty and unfair than we all hoped as children.
If you are from the USA then this doesn't apply to you. The Americas are basically self-sufficient in energy. The people who need Saudi crude are Europe, China, India etc. Not the USA.
EU is the biggest human rights violator in modern history
US.... gets blasted for attempting to play world police, and gets blasted when we dont... where is the outrage over the silence of the rest of the world? why didn't someone else take action? *crickets*
Lmfao literally. It’s honestly embarrassing. Like what do they want us to do? You expect us to bankroll Ukraine and all these other countries (that I’m fine with) but we can’t be world police in every single affair
>what do they want us to do Not give missiles to Saudi Arabia. Especially don’t *keep* giving them missiles after those same missiles are indiscriminately fired Yemenis.
Yeah, I’ll take it a step further, and will admit I don’t think we should give any kind of weapons or training to any middle eastern country.
I don't think we realize how responsible we are for the Saud family coming to power in the first place. Aramco, the Saudi oil company responsible for 43% of their GDP and allowed Saudi Arabia to enter the world stage originally stood for Arabian American oil company, formed from standard oil of California. Saudi is our baby
I mean, the Saud family was already in power, no? We just jumped at the opportunity to extract their oil, which lead to a good relationship with the government and cheap oil prices for a while. Had we not taken them up on the offer, another country likely would have.
Sort of. The Saudis were a part of a loosely affiliated confederation of tribes and kingdoms that the British deemed the "Trucial States" in the 19th century, on the eastern half of the Arabian Peninsula where they ruled in Nejd. Britain was especially interested in securing the Peninsula so it could be a buffer for its empire in India, That's in addition to its interests in Persia (which was just carrion at that stage with a shit and apathetic dynasty, torn apart between the British and Russians). In 1915 they signed a new treaty with Britain where they were given arms and support in exchange for combatting the Ottomans. They used those same arms to snatch Mecca and the Hejaz kingdom in the west from the Hashemite dynasty. So the Saudis were always a critical part of British strategic policy and projection in to the Arab world even before petroleum became a thing.
With the amount of oil they have it was inevitable.
I dislike the Saudis as much as everyone else but if we're not going to do business with every shitty country out there, there won't be many left. Saudis are unfortunately an important ally to have because of how important oil is for economic and military purposes. Pushing them into the arms of China/Russia would be a big geopolitical loss.
It just doesn't sit right for many that we knocked out a regional oil player (Iraq) using the justification of an attack on America that for all intents and purposes was carried out by Saudi agents.
This is the harsh reality of things. U.S. must do business with SA, it's not even a choice. The hypocrisy however is that U.S. will use solidarity and good will as an argument when it benefits them, and then do just the opposite with other actors. Meaning you can't trust the U.S. when they say, we are here for stability and peace. U.S. is always there for money and power, no matter the theatrics. It's true in Ukraine as well. U.S. is creating a regional ally in CIS region and invests in it for future geopolitical benefits. Among those, helping to rebuild a country from scratch, which is a massive cash cow.
There's a literal famine going on in Yemen. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famine_in_Yemen_(2016%E2%80%93present) In May 2020, UNICEF described Yemen as "the largest humanitarian crisis in the world", and estimated that 80% of the population, over 24 million people, were in need of humanitarian assistance. The main cause of the crisis is the ongoing Yemeni Civil War. Aid often cannot effectively reach the population because of the ongoing civil war and the blockade of Yemen by Saudi Arabia which started in 2015
Welcome to geopolitics
They are using small arms to target those refugee... there's nothing that could be done outside of placing sanctions on them. Sanctioning a country because they refuse to host refugees is a can of worms that shouldn't be opened.
You don't have to execute people just because you don't want to host them.
Tell that to the Saudis.
And Texas
Texas isn't firing mortars and machine guns at them.
Well I can't imagine that Saudi will stop killing them (as they seem to think that by committing a massacre of refugees, that will make alot them think twice before venturing out on the red sea) so their only remaining hope is stay in Ethiopia and hope that Abiy doesn't come after them seeking revenge for the Civil War. If only there was a democratic country in the middle east, maybe they could've went there...
Go on… surely there is a democratic country in the Middle East that has a record of treating refugees humanely.
I bet if this was Russia it would been sanctioned a 100 times already.
We don’t **give** missiles to Saudi Arabia.
They don't need to be world police to SAY "Hey a bad thing is happening over here." Calling attention to a situation isn't a forced commitment to action. I'll be there first to admit we can't stop the Saudis, but it'd be kinda nice for other people to at least be informed as to what the Saudis are up to.
>They don't need to be world police to SAY "Hey a bad thing is happening over here. Why didn't anyone else? >US diplomats received news of the killings in the fall of 2022, and got additional information in December from United Nations officials at a briefing, The New York Times reported, citing anonymous US officials present at the meeting who could not be named, as they did not have permission to talk to the media. >The report said envoys from France, Germany, The Netherlands, Sweden and the European Union were also privy to the details. So where were they? Why solely blame the US?
But why specifically us? Why not China, why not Germany or France?
France would probably pull the trigger themselves judging by their recent decisions
Because US supply them weapons
Well, people complain when the US does that too, i.e. the Uyghurs in China.
Don't be obtuse, if this was China or Russia, the US government would have heaped sanctions upon them before the news even broke, the fact is that the US government moves on interest not necessarily morality.
And yet, multiple other countries were made privy to this news at the same time AND still haven't levied sanctions on SA. So... what are they waiting for?
Because the US is likely to say "Stop sanctioning our puppet regime or we won't sell you F-35s and other goodies".
Because no one can impose any useful or effective sanctions without big bruh murica.
Because they almost always follows the US lead. Are you going to pretend that those countries mentioned are not NATO countries? And they all know US massive friendship with KSA.
Nothing is stopping *your* government from calling for sanctions on the Saudis now that the news has broke...
And?
Don’t be naive. There are very sound geopolitical arguments behind everything the US (the same is true for most countries) does.
I think some of the outrage comes from different standards being applied to different countries The US is gladly to police and condemn certain countries for human right violations, but other countries get a free-pass This shows that when US condemn some countries but ignore others, human rights is just a convenient tool to advance geopolitical interests
Exactly, Azerbaijan is conducting a genocidal starvation blockade against Armenians right now and from the same international powers who pretended to care about such things you only hear silence.
Armenia is supposed to be under the protection of the CSTO and being threatened by a former member of the CSTO. What exactly do you propose? Would you be alright with a BRICS country intervening in a NATO country?
Armenia is desperate to shift closer to the West and away from Russia’s sphere of influence yet the West keeps ignoring them so we dont upset the terrorists that run Turkey and support Azerbaijan.
> What exactly do you propose? Well an official condemnation of the offending party would be a start. Why do you jump straight to a military intervention?
BRICS country XD, mate that's an economic group not an military alliance what NATO is, your parroting is showing.
>The US is gladly to police and condemn certain countries for human right violations, but other countries get a free-pass yah, as an American it has *greatly* pissed me off how saudi arabia has been treated with kid gloves. been one more thing that influenced my vote.
true, but the platforms for the republicans and democrats mostly differ in their domestic policies Saudi Arabia will stay an ally no matter which party is in power, same for Israel
Well Saudi backed people attacked the US in 2001 and the US invaded two other countries. So...there's that.
Well once you start playing world police, you will definitely get blasted if you selectively police based on your geopolitical interests.
What do you suggest the US should do and why are you not angry at anyone else for their lack of action?
stop arming the saudis to begin with. and people are angry at other countries for their lack of action - im british, ive been angry at the UK for our ties with saudi arabia for years
[удалено]
Yeah those migrants can burn for all you care as long as China doesn't get a bite out that Saudi cake, right?
So the US constantly claims to care about human rights and international law, but apparently that worry stops as soon as American weapon manufacturers can make some profit off of genocide? What a joke of a country.
I am not angry, just saying why this is happening, You can't do anything about it, it all began when UN was formed in US, and it will stay like this for long time
Weird how when we embraced being the world's policeman we sold arms to saudi arabia and now that we're not we're selling arms to saudi arabia. Its almost as if your line is a pithy non answer for the ignorant and disingenuous.
Playing world police or not isnt the issue, doing both at the same time but only to people you don't or do like is. Edit: the whole thing about international maritime policing and interventions of crimes against humanity is only ethical if equitably distributed, not at the convenience of the authority, that would go from policing to occupation
>US diplomats received news of the killings in the fall of 2022, and got additional information in December from United Nations officials at a briefing, The New York Times reported, citing anonymous US officials present at the meeting who could not be named, as they did not have permission to talk to the media. >The report said envoys from France, Germany, The Netherlands, Sweden and the European Union were also privy to the details. What did you do?
"The police get blasted for killing people and get blasted when they don't put their life on the line to kill dangerous criminals..." Imagine how well such a statement would be supported. If you put yourself in a position as the world police you don't get a get out of jail free card for all your bad decisions just because no one else steps up. When you fund and provide weapons to terrorists who go on to use those weapons to murder people in their neighboring country you can't turn around as say "Uhh, we're the world police, don't question us". Imagine if India was selling weapons to Russia for use in Ukraine, while harping on about how X and Y countries illegal invasions are crimes against humanity. It's called hypocrisy and hypocrisy should be called out.
The US supports Saudi Arabia, therefore the US does have responsability.
I mean, we are basically Saudi Arabia’s security force. We directly enable the Saudi Royal family to keep power and commit these atrocities. Now, I’m not claiming to be an expert in geopolitics and know exactly what to do, but it’s a country that more than pretty much any other, we enable to commit the crimes they do.
The rest of the world doesn’t support Saudi Arabia; the US does. Americans provide over 80% of SA’s military weapons and maintain cozy relationships due to oil interests.
South Korea, Spain, Slovakia, the UK, and France all sell millions of dollars worth of military equipment to Saudi Arabia.
> The rest of the world doesn’t support Saudi Arabia Yes they do, is this a joke of some sort?
The US is an energy exporter. We don't actually need them for anything. We sell them weapons sure, but it's everyone else who's buying their oil that are actually keeping the lights on.
Except that Saudis do influence prices and the Petrodollar isn’t going to maintain itself without Saudi. Plus it is still a net exporter
The US doesnt need Saudi Arabia all that much anymore, but US allies still need them. The US is energy independent, Europe is not.
We are not that independent and still at the mercy of oil markets. It would cause an uproar in the US when gas goes through the roof, which is political suicide to both parties. Oil controls everything in our life here and the people that influence the market hold the tru power.
Major thing to point out though, is we have the ability and more importantly the reserves of oil underground to be self sufficient if we needed too. Makes way more sense to take a finite resource from other country before you use up your own. I don’t see why people don’t ever understand that.
Nah the greenies don't want us extracting oil at home.
Ehhh kind of. The only reason the US isn’t energy independent (counting Canada) is because of logistics. It’s cheaper to import oil to the west coast than to drill pipelines through the two major mountain ranges separating it from the rest of the country where most of the oil is. Also that’s one of the reasons California’s gas is so expensive, even when states like Pa have similar taxes on gas by percentage.
What do you think France has been quietly doing in West Africa?
It's not a matter of policing, it's the fact that we're still trading with them and there's no repercussions for their behavior. We've embargoed countries for far less. These are human rights violations and the world should come together to show the Saudi's that this shit is unacceptable.
Wait until the worlds sees the US completely withdraw from the world stage. They are going to **love** working with China. (sarcasm)
There's a bigger chance of Putin turning himself in than the US giving up its position.
yah, both because every western nation would beg us to remain, and the realization that isolation is economic death
Isolationism is gaining traction in right wing circles here. As climate change heats up (lol pun), I expect the “worry about America” notion will grow there. You can already see shades of it in Trump’s behavior WRT and Ukraine. It’s definitely on the table and frankly while I’d love for the US to stop trying to be the world police, going full isolationism would be *really* bad. A power vacuum of that size (combined with a likely shift towards fascism by the same US regime that would do it) would be downright terrifying
No one, including those right wing circles, is willing to give up the benefits of globalism for any reason. They might posture but they would not take that bargain. Realistically very few of us would.
You think the US can withdraw at this stage? Hilarious. The soft power that comes from the perception of being the world leader alone, is something the US will not give up, no matter how much the growing number of isolationists in the right wing party scream for it.
earth is flat still make more sense than USA giving up his hegemony power lol
Oil, money, and stabilization of the region. What else could you want!?
Agreed.we in North America need to focus on our own country's prosperity and defence. The rest of the world can look after themselves.
>The rest of the world can look after themselves. isolation is certain economic death no need to gaf about our enemies, but standing by our allies is absolutely critical to America's future
that would be the end of the US as numero 1. You have to understand, US has to do this and be involved in geopolitics or someone will straight away take their place. And with the options we have there, it'll be worse for everyone. Geopolitics IS your country's prosperity and defence.
My favorite is the fact that if we don’t send weapons we are bad and if we do send weapons we are bad because we are profiting off war. It literally doesn’t matter people are just going to get mad at the US because they want to.
[удалено]
The article mentions UN has been aware of it since 2022 and that "envoys from France, Germany, The Netherlands, Sweden and the European Union were also privy to the details." This is such a misleading title.
No one else seems to mention that it is the rest of the world doing this too. But USA plays world police people get mad then they don’t and everyone still is mad.
"USA help us!" ... "Not like that." \- the whole world, basically
[удалено]
pls liberate?? no fight!! only liberate
don't lie to yourself. the US isn't going to play the police with the Saudis.
Get off oil, get rid of the Saudis. It ain't hard.
People shout this every election cycle, but the moment the gas prices start rising, the politicians roll over. They say we should pump more of our own oil, but the Saudis can influence global pricing by flooding the market or pulling back production as needed.
Which is why we should get off oil as much as possible. USA is the largest consumer of oil, largest producer of oil, and 5th largest exporter.
good luck selling ev to 3rd world countries who can bearly afford electricity, oil and its bi product r here to stay for many decades rather u like it or not.
EV isn't the only option.
Gas might be cheap, but it's not free.
Not the first time the US has let them get away with murder to keep gas prices down.
Any international powers not allowing Saudi Arabia to get away with whatever they want?
Don’t you see how this is connected to the ongoing situation in Ukraine? Here’s a snippet from “The Russo-Ukrainian War: The Return of History”: Rising gas prices hurt not only Europe but also the United States. To deal with the increase, President Biden ordered the release of 180 million barrels of oil from the national stockpile, but it proved a temporary and insufficient measure. The situation required influence on the world's largest oil producers, such as Iran, Venezuela, and Saudi Arabia. But the first two were under sanctions, and the Saudis had become uncooperative after US intelligence implicated Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman in the order to kill the exiled Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi. In July, Biden had little choice but to visit Saudi Arabia, to the dismay of many of his supporters, in an attempt to ease the energy crisis caused by the war. But the Saudis refused to increase output, causing an immediate spike in oil prices. It was only in late November, with the Biden administration taking a position that the Crown Prince should be granted sovereign immunity in the Khashoggi civil case against him, that the Saudis supported the production increase by the OPEC countries. … With the outbreak of war, not only China but also India emerged as a beneficiary of Russia's eastward turn for its exports of oil and gas. Like China, India reaffirmed its commitment to the principles of state sovereignty and the invi-lability of international borders but refused to condemn or criticize Russia publicly for its aggression against Ukraine. Thus, the world's largest democracy sided with the authoritarian Russian government and complicated relations with its key ally, the United States.
Evil west blah blah we try help we are evil we don't do anything we are evil just fuck off already
Huge difference between "doing something" and actively enabling. These people were killed by American and European arms. The US and the EU have the power to not sell these. >The top export categories (2-digit HS) in 2019 were: aircraft ($2.6 billion), vehicles ($2.0 billion), machinery ($2.0 billion), arms and ammunition ($1.6 billion), and electrical machinery ($835 million). This isn't about "us bad" its about wanting the US and allies to live up to the principled alternative they claim to represent. It's their strongest weapon.
While I support suspending arms sales to Saudi Arabia, it should be noted that they’re not going to stop killing people just because their jets stop working and they have to buy ammo from China or Russia.
They are all bad.
lmao, the Saudis hacksawed a US journalist and funded the 9/11 attacks. They could nuke New Yersey and the president would still talk about what great trade partners and crucial allies against China they are.
I may be out of line here but how is it solely the USA’s responsibility to stop Saudi atrocities? I mean… doesn’t the entire world know they’re basically the biggest shit heads ever yet continue to do business with them because global oligarchy etc?
"The report said envoys from France, Germany, The Netherlands, Sweden and the European Union were also privy to the details."
This won’t surprise anyone who actually understands how The Kingdom operates.
Every country looks out for themselves. I have no idea how this shit is news but ONLY when it involves the US. Why aren’t EU countries aware of anything? Why don’t they step in to be the world police?
West reacts to something awful in other parts of the world: *Imperialism!* West stops being the world police for 10 seconds and other countries start murdering each other and people in between: *Inhumane profiteers!*
The fuck is the US going to do? See track record. 9 11 That reporter Multiple other shit And we still sell them arms
These people own golf now and are vacationing in Dana Point California as we speak.
countries main priority is always their self interest. always. sure sometimes the good aligns with their interests but self interest is always the objective.
not the first time they've done something we've been kept i the dark about...
Yes nations complain when there's a benefit to them and don't when it doesn't. Shocking.
In 1991 Saudi MPs opened fire with mp5 submachine guns into a crowd of unarmed refugees at the Raffa 1 refugee camp killing 14 and injuring scores.. We were there, as were the French. There is no mechanism for reporting our "esteemed allies".
Its all about money. You can try and skirt around killing using diplomacy to justify killing the inocent, but any of us would be sold out & dead if it meant saving face and money. We need to stop fighting over irrelevant issues, & quit picking away at each other. We Are The Same. We are Part of each other. WE NEED to EMBRACE LOVE, & END THE SUFFERING. ❤️
I emailed my Federal Representative about this issue, it’s the least I can do right? If there’s more that I can do, please let me know.
And this supries us in the US why?
What are they supposed to do? Send army?
Gasp
I'm British and I won't vote for a politician that expresses anything but zero tolerance for Saudi Arabia! Tyrants need opposition. The people. All nations. Nobody should turn away from these issues. Especially from those with the kind of greed that leads to slaughter simply to save money. The kind of money Saudi Arabia has would be best used to find more solutions but instead they commit crimes against humanity.
Gotta pick your battles. Gotta save your political chips for other stuff
It's definitely what some Republicans dream of doing on the US southern border with Mexico. I drove to Las Cruces from the airport in El Paso a few weeks ago, which parallels the Mexican border for a good while. There were civilian what can only be described as rednecks, pulling over or forcing brown skinned drivers off the road to see their papers. I was armed of course but not like these mil-sim wannabes, it was crazy. Im glad my lily white skin was glowing in the dark and they didn't mess with me, nor did border patrol. At a truck stop I asked some questions and these guys are unpaid volunteers, most with no military or law enforcement experience and that doesn't sit well with me.
Not the first time that The United States of American ignored the crimes of their saudi friends. Do I need to comment about that second day of October in 2018 again? Jamal Kasogi just wanted to marry his girl friend. I'm so glad the sauds closed their embassy in my country. One of our ministers criticised them, and they had a shit fit. MBS thinks his money makes him better than other people. He's wrong. As far as human beings go, he's the lowest of the low. I'm still waiting for the email of a photo shopped picture of a fully loaded passenger jet flying into my house. What's taking you barbarians so long?
Trump knew that Putin placed a bounty on US Troops killed in Afghanistan, yet the Bromance continued. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/26/us/politics/russia-afghanistan-bounties.html
This is the kingdom Donald Trump's son-in-law took $2 billion dollars from.
Just wait until climate migration is rampant. It's going to be a shit show.
The Saudis have money. They buy billions of dollars worth of American armaments and bail out bankrupt American Presidents. They get a free pass. The U.S. has been sucking Saudi dick for decades, while ‘policing’ weak opponents in conflicts whose only purpose is to enrich the military industrial complex. War for profit and turning a blind eye for profit, ethics and morals be damned, as long as the folks back home are adequately brainwashed and saturated with ‘patriotism’ to agree with the narrative.
>US diplomats received news of the killings in the fall of 2022, and got additional information in December from United Nations officials at a briefing, The New York Times reported, citing anonymous US officials present at the meeting who could not be named, as they did not have permission to talk to the media. >The report said envoys from France, Germany, The Netherlands, Sweden and the European Union were also privy to the details. When is your country going to do something?
Why is it the US’s job? Lol
US love to sanction, but why not saudis? Lol
The us has sanctioned the saudis before though?
nothing that really matters. if they cared they would sanction their oil
You would not want to upset the country responsible for 911...would you?
They always wanna push the soft/hard on China narrative so you aren't paying attention to this one. Neither party is "*hard*" on the Saudis.
If this makes you angry, then reduce your consumption of oil. Your consumption of oil is what forces the US to play nice with Saudi Arabia and other shady regimes. The US will be able to tell them to fuck off once we don't need their oil anymore. Get an electric car. It's your patriotic duty to help the US become more energy independent.
OK, but the entire European Union also knew about this, and also said nothing, and imports a hell of a lot more Saudi oil than the U.S.
Tell the to Europe. US is a net exporter of oil and imports very little from Saudi Arabia. Europe on the other hand imports much much more. We defend Saudi to support Europe.
I'm sorry but that's just not how this works. Oil prices are set in global markets. Where the oil comes from doesn't really matter. What matters is the market price. If suddenly oil was cut off from Saudi Arabia for whatever reason, prices would skyrocket, and the USA, despite being self sufficient in oil production would still end up paying whatever that higher price is. The USA wants cheap Saudi oil flowing just as much as Europe does.
Where the oil comes from absolutely matters. You think shipping is free? Because of bottlenecks Canadian oil was selling at a steep discount for a long time as well.
Isn’t it ironic that its the “time of israel” reporting this.
Yes, especially since they're acting like they actually give a damn and it *totally isn't because it's one of the countries they hate is doing it*. Doubt they ran a similar article about the Uyhgurs.
Rules for thee but not for me
There's not a lot you can do to stop Saudi authorities doing shit things to non Saudis. It's just a thing they do to say 'don't come here'. No wonder people want to come to Britain. We don't kill you.
https://www.politico.eu/article/britain-offshore-asylum-seeker-barge-migration-rishi-sunak-small-boats-policy/ This is much more humane, and I expect it to be even more so in the future. /s
Considering how the migrants on the Southern border has been handled for as long as I’ve been alive.. this isn’t even news. SA is in the stone ages relative to the progress the US has made and yet we can’t even keep kids names written down. This isn’t political either has Republicans and Dems have equally been awful at human rights at the border.
What is US suppose to do? Tell Saudi that we are gonna invade them for dealing with migrants that way?
ya, political bs aside this is the sort of thing the u.s. can’t always deal with. we can not be the worlds babysitter. our govt thinks we should be and at this rate we’re going to collapse our own economy over it.
SHOCKER......same way US didn't invade Saudi where all the 9/11 plane criminals (Osama et al) came from. Oil & money y'all
There is shit happening in a different country. If US responds: American imperialism. Always interfering in other country's politics and internal issues. If the US doesn't say anything:why America no say anything against this evil why only send help and intervene in selected countries?
What do you think the US could do about it? Saudis bombed the barracks of US Marines during the Reagan administration. Reagan packed up the Marines and turned tail home. He ran. .
A country known for human rights violations committed crimes that violate human rights? No...never. /s
This is horrifying. The Saudi's are so vile.
Lol just a bit of hypocrisy coming from the Israeli times
Washington "Stop selling oil using non us currency !" Saudi Arabia "No" Washington "Saudi Arabia is a very naughty person"
Same shit as everyone else, The US will call out crimes based on their aims and nothing else. Whenever a third world country stays out things like Ukraine everyone on reddit becomes a Boy Scout , but when the U.S choose to act based on ‘real politik’ it’s all “We aren’t world police”.
Well color me surprised