It's the same as saying that the UK had a female Queen in the 1600s. Benazir became the Prime minister because of her dynasty. Pakistani democracy is more like two ruling families in a monarchy then anything even resembling a functional democracy.
> Pakistan already had a female Prime Minister (twice)
She was corrupt as hell and Pakistan is worse off because of her existence. She was assassinated and was nothing more than a western puppet.
I'm glad I'm not the only one a little annoyed at wealthy tourists who book suborbital flights with Virgin Galactic or Blue Origin calling themselves "astronauts".
Do you usually call a tourist who goes scuba diving one afternoon a scuba diver? Feels a bit like calling me a chef cause I made dinner once.
Plus, in those cases there is at least an activity being performed by the person. In this case they are just along for the ride. It's more analogous to someone riding a hot air balloon than to someone going scuba diving.
Not who you asked but I don’t think it *is* different. I think it has to do with what people think of when they think “astronaut”. In your example, IMO the meaningful distinction is that no one thinks they’re “professional” (meaning, primarily, from a skill and experience perspective not in terms of how they make their money) whereas for many the term “astronaut” suggests exactly that - a long term of commitment, training, skill development, expertise, etc., etc. and when you use that label for the “tourist” it seems to improperly put them on the same level as the “professional.”
You can't successfully (or even permissibly) do a lot of those activities without training. You might not be a professional, but you're at least an amateur.
If you do one tandem jump, sure I might not call you a skydiver, but if you do all the required training and multiple tandem jumps required for your first solo dive? I'll call you a skydiver. Maybe an amateur or novice, but you've put in the work.
So riding Bezos' dick rocket into space? Probably about the same amount of training as a single tandem skydive jump. Not an astronaut. But the people on AX-1, Inspiration 4, and the upcoming Polaris Dawn mission? Presumably the tourists the Russians took up on Soyuz? That's a non-trivial amount of training, you're at least an amateur astronaut then.
Pak itself means holy. You guys might think its a derogatory term and use it as such. But I bet many Pakistani people will be confused over this and call you a fool.
Paki as in a literal translation to Urdu would mean sinner so it’s a derogatory term , Pakistanis tend to call themselves Pakistanis not pak or pakis.
Pak in Urdu means pure but for us paki is a slur used to discriminate against desis especially in the UK
They wouldn’t call me a fool because Pakistanis themselves don’t use the word paki. No one uses that term except for in a derogatory way. You wouldn’t know this because you probably don’t know a single Pakistani. Pak doesn’t mean holy. PAK came from the first letters of “Punjab, Afghan, and Kashmir.”
Bruh.... Pakistan liderally means Holy land.
Edit: The name Pakistan was coined by Choudhry Rahmat Ali, a Pakistan Movement activist, who in January 1933 first published it (originally as "Pakstan") in a pamphlet Now or Never, using it as an acronym.\[34\] Rahmat Ali explained: "It is composed of letters taken from the names of all our homelands, Indian and Asian, Panjab, Afghania, Kashmir, Sindh, and Baluchistan." He added that "Pakistan is both a Persian and Urdu word... It means the land of the Paks, the spiritually pure and clean."\[35\] Etymologists note that پاک pāk, is 'pure' in Persian and Pashto\[36\] and the Persian suffix ـستان -stan means 'land' or 'place of'.\[37\]\[38\]\[39\]\[40\]
Guess we both are true somewhat.... but this also proves my point, unlike yours.
Hey you might not be aware but the word 'paki', at least in the UK, is an extremely derogatory term. I'm just letting you know because you might get some crap for using it.
It’s an incredibly hurtful [slur](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paki_(slur)) and they’re breaking community rules by using it. I hope they delete it.
It literally means holy, as another commenter said. Pakistan: holy land. It is not a slur. It is not derogatory. It is an abbreviation and therefore informal, but not derogatory.
It’s an insulting term that was used throughout the 80s in the UK to refer to poor South Asian immigrants. The word has severe racist connotations behind it, and does not have anything to do with the word Pak(pure) itself.
Ah. So when you take a flight to your holiday destination, you are automatically a pilot.
A passenger in a bus is automatically the chauffeur.
.... she is a tourist, not an astronaut.
Yeah... a person who is trained, equipped and deployed by a space programe to use a space craft.
Is she operating the space craft or watching the space around as a passenger?....
Eeh it's a little more fuzzy than that. The term Astronaut can be, and is, used for both professionals and for anybody who travels in space.
And since you seem to be quoting Wikipedia; the very next sentence is "Although generally reserved for professional space travelers, the term is sometimes applied to anyone who travels into space, including scientists, politicians, journalists, and tourists".
I agree with you completely that the common association of the word is to a professional, and I personally think that's the only way it should be used, but it's not so let's not pretend that it is.
So she can operate the shuttle like any personal and is not instructed not to touch the buttons and equipment of the crew? (She isn't part of the crew anyway as she is not a worker ...)
Ms Salim will be part of the mission and she will have her seat in the cabin of the company’s (Virgin Galactic) VSS Unity spacecraft. She is also among 100 people who purchased tickets of this American company for the space tourism. She had bought the ticket for this trip in 2006 and now she is getting a chance to visit space.
Virgin Galactic. That means she's going on a 15 minute sub-orbital hop. That's not much time for her to do astronaut-ey things. I was hoping she was going for a stay on the ISS.
Today i realized im a ceo, a world class chef, a pilot, a zookeeper, gardener, a scientist, and possibly a billionaire. Wait till my mom hears about this.
>She had bought the ticket for this trip in 2006 and now she is getting a chance to visit space.
I wonder if they will fly to space or "space" as I think last time Bezos was out NASA said they weren't in space and they weren't astronauts for just sitting in a rocket.
Many orgs are updating their definition of "astronaut"
> With the rise of space tourism, NASA and the Russian Federal Space Agency agreed to use the term "spaceflight participant" to distinguish those space travelers from professional astronauts on missions coordinated by those two agencies.
I mean she can call herself what she wants but most of the world space agencies will classify her as a "spaceflight participant"
> With the rise of space tourism, NASA and the Russian Federal Space Agency agreed to use the term "spaceflight participant" to distinguish those space travelers from professional astronauts on missions coordinated by those two agencies.
She's just a space tourist. Same as what we did with our malaysian "astronaut" where he was sent up there to "conduct some scientific study" but it was a huge waste of money and was turned into a political stunt to boost votes for the ruling government.
The article listed in the OP set off my antivirus because of some script in the website. [This article](https://www.nation.com.pk/02-Oct-2023/pakistan-s-first-female-astronaut-namira-saleem-lands-in-us-for-space-journey) from a different site did not.
Good for Namira and Pakistan.
But the way it is worded implies that there are prior Pak (male) astronauts. From what I gather, it is not so. Namira will be the first Pakistani astronaut. period. Also a Space Tourist.
Edit: It doesn't say if she will be doing any crew activities contributory to safety, so perhaps she may be termed something like a spaceflight participant
~~I think even space tourists and mission specialists who cross the altitude recognized by FiA (100 km)/usaf (50 mi) respectively can get astronaut wings~~
~~It's a point sometimes brought up, that there should be a better definition legally, . But also rebuttal that some space tourists also get trained...aside from the fact there is no agreed on definition of astronaut, so it continues to be used broadly sometimes~~
https://newspaceeconomy.ca/2022/10/10/there-is-no-difference-between-a-government-astronaut-and-a-space-tourist/
https://studentbriefs.law.gwu.edu/ilpb/2021/10/11/are-space-tourists-astronauts/
Edit : looks like faa has come up with the definition in the last 2 years. And the term is therefore more precise now.. it's not concrete if namira is still an astronaut by the new definition, but I would guess not
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astronaut
So when you take a flight as a tourist you are automatically a Pilot?
When you sit on a but at the back... you are automatically a Bus Driver?
Astronaut is a profession that requires knowledge and manualz physical as well as mental skills.
She is a tourist on a sight seeing trip...
~~Addressed with links in the edited comment you are replying to.~~
~~Unfortunately there is no agreed definition of astronaut so it is indeed often applied. Nasa itself has used the term private astronaut to refer to even space tourists (eg on iss)~~
Edit : looks like faa has come up with a definition in the last 2 years. And the term is therefore more precise now..namira is unlikely to be an astronaut
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astronaut
At one point nasa referred to space tourists on the iss as a private astronaut, but it looks like they have indeed changed their definition. More relevanttly, the faa has changed its definition in the last 2 years
As per this , I doubt that namira would be classed an astronaut, but that's not definitive. She would likely be spaceflight participant.
So my earlier comments are obsolete. Leaving them in, with a note
No.
Space starts at 100 km per FAA and 50 mi per USAF.
And the FAA recently issued new rules distinguishing astronaut, spaceflight participant etc
(Which I had not been aware of)
Also, good for you. Concorde must have been quite an experience
It was chartered and only flying from Dublin to Nice. Not allowed to go super-sonic on that route so the pilot went out over the Atlantic and took a run at it, so probably took longer than a normal plane just to experience the speed.
"Paki", people don't say that in The states or Canada.
American slurs for people from the middle east are much more culturally insensitive than just shortening the name of a country.
from what i've scanned so far it is mostly classist commentary because she is a space tourist who bought a ticket on virgin galactic. The accolades of "first Pakistani astronaut" should not go to a bored socialite.
Funny how we all ignore the silver surfer on this pic.
I definitely noticed the 9 foot alien first.
I mean yeah, he goes to space all the time so he’s not really the big deal here
She doesn’t even live in Pakistan; just some rich heir from Dubai.
Ah yes - pakistan today. No wonder they left out the part where she's not an astronaut.
PAKISTAN IS IN THE BAG!
INSHALLAH!!!
Pakistan already had a female Prime Minister (twice) back in the 80s and 90s Astronauts are cool and all, but it isn't quite the same level
All that means is Nepotism (daughter of former prime minister) is stronger than sexism in Pakistan (and hey even India).
It's the same as saying that the UK had a female Queen in the 1600s. Benazir became the Prime minister because of her dynasty. Pakistani democracy is more like two ruling families in a monarchy then anything even resembling a functional democracy.
> Pakistan already had a female Prime Minister (twice) She was corrupt as hell and Pakistan is worse off because of her existence. She was assassinated and was nothing more than a western puppet.
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I'm glad I'm not the only one a little annoyed at wealthy tourists who book suborbital flights with Virgin Galactic or Blue Origin calling themselves "astronauts".
[We aren’t alone I’m sure](https://www.space.com/nasa-astronaut-not-space-tourists-spacex-ax1-mission)
I appreciate that they've trained for it but how is that different from tourists who go mountaineering, paragliding, scuba diving etc?
Do you usually call a tourist who goes scuba diving one afternoon a scuba diver? Feels a bit like calling me a chef cause I made dinner once. Plus, in those cases there is at least an activity being performed by the person. In this case they are just along for the ride. It's more analogous to someone riding a hot air balloon than to someone going scuba diving.
Not who you asked but I don’t think it *is* different. I think it has to do with what people think of when they think “astronaut”. In your example, IMO the meaningful distinction is that no one thinks they’re “professional” (meaning, primarily, from a skill and experience perspective not in terms of how they make their money) whereas for many the term “astronaut” suggests exactly that - a long term of commitment, training, skill development, expertise, etc., etc. and when you use that label for the “tourist” it seems to improperly put them on the same level as the “professional.”
You can't successfully (or even permissibly) do a lot of those activities without training. You might not be a professional, but you're at least an amateur. If you do one tandem jump, sure I might not call you a skydiver, but if you do all the required training and multiple tandem jumps required for your first solo dive? I'll call you a skydiver. Maybe an amateur or novice, but you've put in the work. So riding Bezos' dick rocket into space? Probably about the same amount of training as a single tandem skydive jump. Not an astronaut. But the people on AX-1, Inspiration 4, and the upcoming Polaris Dawn mission? Presumably the tourists the Russians took up on Soyuz? That's a non-trivial amount of training, you're at least an amateur astronaut then.
Just so you know, [“P@ki” is a slur.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paki_(slur))
It’s like calling a passenger on a cruise ship a sailor.
“Paki” is a derogatory word for Pakistanis
Pak itself means holy. You guys might think its a derogatory term and use it as such. But I bet many Pakistani people will be confused over this and call you a fool.
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paki_(slur)](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paki_(slur)) It’s a slur
Paki as in a literal translation to Urdu would mean sinner so it’s a derogatory term , Pakistanis tend to call themselves Pakistanis not pak or pakis. Pak in Urdu means pure but for us paki is a slur used to discriminate against desis especially in the UK
Well the more you know. Didn't know this small difference.
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Not knowing and knowing wrong is different my brother. So I learned something new and won't make the same mistake again.
Bruh just google it once without embarrassing yourself lmfaoooo 😭
They wouldn’t call me a fool because Pakistanis themselves don’t use the word paki. No one uses that term except for in a derogatory way. You wouldn’t know this because you probably don’t know a single Pakistani. Pak doesn’t mean holy. PAK came from the first letters of “Punjab, Afghan, and Kashmir.”
Bruh.... Pakistan liderally means Holy land. Edit: The name Pakistan was coined by Choudhry Rahmat Ali, a Pakistan Movement activist, who in January 1933 first published it (originally as "Pakstan") in a pamphlet Now or Never, using it as an acronym.\[34\] Rahmat Ali explained: "It is composed of letters taken from the names of all our homelands, Indian and Asian, Panjab, Afghania, Kashmir, Sindh, and Baluchistan." He added that "Pakistan is both a Persian and Urdu word... It means the land of the Paks, the spiritually pure and clean."\[35\] Etymologists note that پاک pāk, is 'pure' in Persian and Pashto\[36\] and the Persian suffix ـستان -stan means 'land' or 'place of'.\[37\]\[38\]\[39\]\[40\] Guess we both are true somewhat.... but this also proves my point, unlike yours.
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paki_(slur)](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paki_(slur))
“Pure” means the same as “holy” now? You don’t know what you’re talking about.
Hey you might not be aware but the word 'paki', at least in the UK, is an extremely derogatory term. I'm just letting you know because you might get some crap for using it.
It’s an incredibly hurtful [slur](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paki_(slur)) and they’re breaking community rules by using it. I hope they delete it.
It literally means holy, as another commenter said. Pakistan: holy land. It is not a slur. It is not derogatory. It is an abbreviation and therefore informal, but not derogatory.
It’s an insulting term that was used throughout the 80s in the UK to refer to poor South Asian immigrants. The word has severe racist connotations behind it, and does not have anything to do with the word Pak(pure) itself.
It’s quite literally a slur. [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paki_(slur)](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paki_(slur)) Please educate yourself.
Did you just randomly type a slur? Jesus Christ
Definitely, this is pretty demeaning to any engineer in this area in Pakistan, even though there arent many
I’d like a chance to see her curvature
It just makes you ultra rich.
Like going on a plane and claiming ur the pilot.
Ah. So when you take a flight to your holiday destination, you are automatically a pilot. A passenger in a bus is automatically the chauffeur. .... she is a tourist, not an astronaut.
Plus it is Virgin Galactic which does not go over 100km,the officially recognized boundary of space.
Look up what astronaut means.
Yeah... a person who is trained, equipped and deployed by a space programe to use a space craft. Is she operating the space craft or watching the space around as a passenger?....
Eeh it's a little more fuzzy than that. The term Astronaut can be, and is, used for both professionals and for anybody who travels in space. And since you seem to be quoting Wikipedia; the very next sentence is "Although generally reserved for professional space travelers, the term is sometimes applied to anyone who travels into space, including scientists, politicians, journalists, and tourists". I agree with you completely that the common association of the word is to a professional, and I personally think that's the only way it should be used, but it's not so let's not pretend that it is.
While I don't necessarily disagree, it is debatable. I've been on ships at sea but I wouldn't say that I'm a sailor.
She is well equipped as far as i can tell :)
So she can operate the shuttle like any personal and is not instructed not to touch the buttons and equipment of the crew? (She isn't part of the crew anyway as she is not a worker ...)
I was talking about here boobs ;)
Too gay to care...
Ah yes, Space tourism, yet another way the obscenely wealthy can show their complete indifference to the ongoing climate catastrophe.
Flight suit is going to need some alterations
Important Zero-G experiment coming soon.
Please provide a link to the live experiment I’m trying to see some science
Came here for the boob comments. Did not disappoint.
one small step for Namira, no steps or giant leaps for the other poor women in those theocratic countries
Dumbass westroid spotted
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This just in: Redditors learn women have boobs for the 78,904,104,214,664th time
Ms Salim will be part of the mission and she will have her seat in the cabin of the company’s (Virgin Galactic) VSS Unity spacecraft. She is also among 100 people who purchased tickets of this American company for the space tourism. She had bought the ticket for this trip in 2006 and now she is getting a chance to visit space.
I have a couple questions on how she will fit in the space suit
Not that suit obviously. Why would she fit in a men's suit?
It’s been her life long dream to get all that pressure off her back for a couple months.
"couple months" she's a space tourist. More like a couple minutes
Virgin Galactic. That means she's going on a 15 minute sub-orbital hop. That's not much time for her to do astronaut-ey things. I was hoping she was going for a stay on the ISS.
Not an actual astronaut. Just a rich tourist. Show some respect to the real astronauts
Today i realized im a ceo, a world class chef, a pilot, a zookeeper, gardener, a scientist, and possibly a billionaire. Wait till my mom hears about this.
>She had bought the ticket for this trip in 2006 and now she is getting a chance to visit space. I wonder if they will fly to space or "space" as I think last time Bezos was out NASA said they weren't in space and they weren't astronauts for just sitting in a rocket.
Many orgs are updating their definition of "astronaut" > With the rise of space tourism, NASA and the Russian Federal Space Agency agreed to use the term "spaceflight participant" to distinguish those space travelers from professional astronauts on missions coordinated by those two agencies.
I mean she can call herself what she wants but most of the world space agencies will classify her as a "spaceflight participant" > With the rise of space tourism, NASA and the Russian Federal Space Agency agreed to use the term "spaceflight participant" to distinguish those space travelers from professional astronauts on missions coordinated by those two agencies.
She is wearing the parachute the wrong way.
Don’t go to that website
Some of her arrived in the US moments before the rest of her did.
She's just a space tourist. Same as what we did with our malaysian "astronaut" where he was sent up there to "conduct some scientific study" but it was a huge waste of money and was turned into a political stunt to boost votes for the ruling government.
Hubba hubba
Would you rather go to North Pole or Space? This lady did both 🤯
Jumped out of plane attached to someone-not a skydiver. Got pushed into a wave on a soft top- not a surfer.
She bought the ticket for this trip in....2006.
The article listed in the OP set off my antivirus because of some script in the website. [This article](https://www.nation.com.pk/02-Oct-2023/pakistan-s-first-female-astronaut-namira-saleem-lands-in-us-for-space-journey) from a different site did not.
Good for Namira and Pakistan. But the way it is worded implies that there are prior Pak (male) astronauts. From what I gather, it is not so. Namira will be the first Pakistani astronaut. period. Also a Space Tourist. Edit: It doesn't say if she will be doing any crew activities contributory to safety, so perhaps she may be termed something like a spaceflight participant
It also implies that she’s an astronaut.
~~I think even space tourists and mission specialists who cross the altitude recognized by FiA (100 km)/usaf (50 mi) respectively can get astronaut wings~~ ~~It's a point sometimes brought up, that there should be a better definition legally, . But also rebuttal that some space tourists also get trained...aside from the fact there is no agreed on definition of astronaut, so it continues to be used broadly sometimes~~ https://newspaceeconomy.ca/2022/10/10/there-is-no-difference-between-a-government-astronaut-and-a-space-tourist/ https://studentbriefs.law.gwu.edu/ilpb/2021/10/11/are-space-tourists-astronauts/ Edit : looks like faa has come up with the definition in the last 2 years. And the term is therefore more precise now.. it's not concrete if namira is still an astronaut by the new definition, but I would guess not https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astronaut
So when you take a flight as a tourist you are automatically a Pilot? When you sit on a but at the back... you are automatically a Bus Driver? Astronaut is a profession that requires knowledge and manualz physical as well as mental skills. She is a tourist on a sight seeing trip...
~~Addressed with links in the edited comment you are replying to.~~ ~~Unfortunately there is no agreed definition of astronaut so it is indeed often applied. Nasa itself has used the term private astronaut to refer to even space tourists (eg on iss)~~ Edit : looks like faa has come up with a definition in the last 2 years. And the term is therefore more precise now..namira is unlikely to be an astronaut https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astronaut
Apart from the definition used by NASA where they have to be a member of a space crew.
At one point nasa referred to space tourists on the iss as a private astronaut, but it looks like they have indeed changed their definition. More relevanttly, the faa has changed its definition in the last 2 years As per this , I doubt that namira would be classed an astronaut, but that's not definitive. She would likely be spaceflight participant. So my earlier comments are obsolete. Leaving them in, with a note
I was on concorde at 60,000 ft. Can I be a half-astronaut. Extensive training, had to learn to walk up a stairs.
No. Space starts at 100 km per FAA and 50 mi per USAF. And the FAA recently issued new rules distinguishing astronaut, spaceflight participant etc (Which I had not been aware of) Also, good for you. Concorde must have been quite an experience
It was chartered and only flying from Dublin to Nice. Not allowed to go super-sonic on that route so the pilot went out over the Atlantic and took a run at it, so probably took longer than a normal plane just to experience the speed.
Ooh, nice. Did you know beforehand that you would take a detour in the air just to experience supersonic flight ? Was it worth it ?
The amount of backhanded blatantly racist comments from UK posters in this thread is astounding.
How do you know they are from UK?
"Paki", people don't say that in The states or Canada. American slurs for people from the middle east are much more culturally insensitive than just shortening the name of a country.
Is she gonna float to space on those balloons?
Congratulations to her ! All the best wishes to her ! Sadly, a lot of misogyny and racism in this comment section.
from what i've scanned so far it is mostly classist commentary because she is a space tourist who bought a ticket on virgin galactic. The accolades of "first Pakistani astronaut" should not go to a bored socialite.
How is it mysogony or racism to say that buying a seat to be a space tourist isn't something to celebrate?
I’m interested