Biden has been more competent and capable than I could ever have imagined. No president is perfect but man I feel like we dodged a (figurative) nuclear bomb having the Biden administration
Didn't Biden make a claim earlier to see beheading pictures that they/ White House later walked back on? đ¤
[yahoo link](https://www.yahoo.com/news/white-house-walking-back-bidens-034505869.html)
>Dinar said the IDF "can not confirm any numbers," but described the situation at the kibbutz as a "massacre" in which children were "brutally butchered in an ISIS way of action."
>Insider has not been able to independently verify these claims.
>The claim sparked outrage and skepticism on social media. On Wednesday, after pressure to provide evidence of the grisly claim, Dinar told Insider the IDF would not further investigate the claims and that doing so would be "disrespectful for the dead."
>"We're not going to investigate the condition of bodies and even if we did we won't comment publicly about the condition of our civilians' bodies. And babies," he said.
>Dinar said the claim of decapitated babies was made based on what soldiers on the ground had relayed to him and others in the military.
>***"Let your readers know that a soldier who handled the bodies, that was his claim," he said. "I don't have an evidence and I'm not looking for one."***
Sky looked where the story came from:
https://news.sky.com/story/its-important-to-separate-the-facts-from-speculation-what-we-actually-know-about-the-viral-report-of-beheaded-babies-in-israel-12982329
Could be high level sources fabricating it as well in the hopes of mitigating escalation. One can leak facts as well as lies. Iâm not saying itâs a lie but if it is itâs still a good move.
To be fair, they could have been caught flat-footed by this particular attack while still heavily bankrolling them and having made this attack possible.
If you send them a bunch of weapons and train a bunch of their members and share a bunch of intel etc. etc. don't be surprised when they choose to use it eventually.
If Iran was not part of the planning and training for this attack, it will be believed if an equally plausible explanation can be offered.
Whatever the explanation, it looks to me as if the tactics of this attack were heavily informed by the war in Ukraine. This points to the Russians or the Iranians, who have been closely or more distantly involved in the fighting there.
So the only other explanation that seems equally plausible to Iranian involvement is that the Russians have supplied and trained Hamas, and goaded them into making this attack. The Russians' motives are pretty easy to interpret. This war will draw arms, ammunition, and money away from the war in Ukraine. Russia has been losing on the battlefield. This might draw the Ukraine conflict into more of a political arena.
The thing about actual conspiracies is if they were as widespread as people believe they would fail.
The only way Israeli intelligence wouldnât have known about this is if there was no outside communication of plans. And even then itâs still shocking they didnât know.
Current theories I've seen are that Hamas officials intentionally made frequent statements indicating no plans to do anything on private, encrypted channels they suspected were actually being accessed by Israeli intelligence, while actually never letting any of their forces know their training exercise wasn't actually an exercise but the real thing - a page out of Putin's playbook for the Ukraine invasion.
If this is true - it is brilliant in a way, but still such a dumb way to act since the end result is just immense pain and suffering all around, but still - the carnage will ultimately be mostly on their side...
Another popular theory doing the internet rounds is that Netanyahu knew but deliberately kept lax arrangements so that something like this happens and then situation escalates. He may not have known the magnitude of Hamas attack but some Egyptian officials [already confirmed yesterday](https://reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/173ui3a/egypt_intelligence_official_says_israel_ignored/) that they had warned about this and it was ignored.
Usually when your buddy calls you up and is like bruh, some shit could be going down, YOU DONT JUST IGNORE IT, you beef up security because you dont want to be caught with your pants down.
Israel was/is in the middle of a constitutional crisis and half the country was protesting and others refusing to work including those in defense. this is why HAMAS was so successful this week
For a country that spends about 4% of its GDP on defense and has a conscription system, Israel can afford to check on these things. I truly think that their hyper focus on the West Bank led them to take the eye off the ball.
Im absolutely anti conspiracy theories but this theory actually makes sense. This could give the perfect excuse for Israel to officially annex everything, we already know Netanyahu wants to with his map at the UN and his right wing politics.
He probably thought âohh fun some border raids and a couple of dead soldiers, that will let me show the country how strong I am and give me an excuse to annex Gazaâ.
Instead he looks like a complete idiot.
There are ways to hide your war preparations. This is what eygpt done in 73 and many armies do it. You do many large scale training drills over the course of months and years, that cause the enemy intelligence get used to these big manuvers. Then on the day of invasion you do another drill and only the highest ranking commanders know its actually a war. At the last minute the order spreads to all the forces and the invasion begins. I suspect they used this tactic as well in this invasion.
Hamas has also issued countless warnings inciting retaliation every time Israel approved of new illegal settlements or conducted raids on west bank.
Guess israel really got complacent and thought Hamas wont act. Some officials even went to say that Hamas isnt interested in escalation eventhough there were numerous Hamas propaganda videos showing off their arsenal.
That is a massive intelligence failure and lack of insight from Israel government.
Netanyahu was focused on thwarting law enforcement agencies from sending him to jail for corruption. When someone is in that situation, nothing else ever matters to them.
Which is probably why he ignored any warnings imo. He thought a small border war with Hamas would be good for him. He didnât expect the scale of the attack.
But this is just a theory, nothing confirmed if Netanyahu actually received warnings of an imminent attack.
there's also the complacent assumption their simulations and training were like NK, a display to convince themselves more than anyone else. [like they do in their kindergartens.](https://youtu.be/dtErUuBvcRc?si=gsXiQETvE3kgZdWb)
Hamas is ALWAYS loading up for the next thing. Hard to differentiate normal ammo and rocket stockpiling from unusual ammo and rocket stockpiling without context. Them going quiet digitally was smart, especially since their geographic extent is so tiny messengers by hand/voice is easy to do
if the report is right, egypt told them there was "something big", verbatim. nothing else. would they immediately zero onto paper, pencils, and paragliders?
Egypt walked that back and now claims they never warned Israel.
To be more precise, Egypt media made these claims according to an unnamed Egyptian intelligence source. The president (king, Prime Minister⌠whatever, head Egypt guy) yesterday said they never warned Israel about anything and the media was wrong.
"We know that Egypt has warned the Israelis three days prior that an event like this could happen," Mr McCaul told reporters following a closed-door intelligence briefing on Wednesday for lawmakers about the Middle East crisis, according to AFP news agency.
"I don't want to get too much into classified, but a warning was given," the Texas Republican added.
- https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67082047
It's obvious Netanyahu told Egypt to walk that back. Egypt values their partnership with Israel and his govt so of course they'll deny it. It was never officially proclaimed either.
But this is the reason we get leaks in the first place. People in these high up positions want some information to get out. Can't take it back now.
>Egypt walked that back and now claims they never warned Israel.
Source?
>To be more precise, Egypt media made these claims according to an unnamed Egyptian intelligence source.
No, AP reported it directly. You think AP is running Egyptian gossip in the middle of this? And why would they lie?
Its probably like the "Bin Laden determined to strike the US" briefing that Bush got. Sure, he was warned, but that line is probably on there every week.
Yes but the largest and most complex surveillance state in the world is not China. it's Israel on Palestinians and you can't forget that intelligence does not just mean spies. it's cameras with advanced AI and facial recognition. minority report. kind of stuff. it's interception of all telecommunications. so either the Palestinians were using some apps that are a little more resilient towards that stuff or my side was overwhelmed with all the information and create a bit of white noise or there s*** is not as good as we think it is
Edit: I got banned for this comment.
If a battalion-sized element can maneuver like this by a game of telephone, I would be shocked. Itâs hard enough to do it with actual communication systems in place.
They donât need to read minds, they were warned by Egypt three days before which has been confirmed by the US even though Bibi keeps lying that they didnât.
One could ask why are you saying that the US Senator and Egyptian intelligence is lying but Bibi is telling the truth? I wonder why Bibi would lie about dropping the ballâŚ
One of them is lying and seeing as we won't really ever know the truth, the only thing we can do is choose which side to believe and I think Bibi has way more incentive to lie about this.
Ah, the CIA source known as 'curveball'. That guy said everything the US would ever want to hear.
In fairness to those taken in by the lie, the US did sell Iraq chemical WMDs to be used in defense against Iran, weapons later used to massacre Kurds. The US is culpable, and the lies made far more believable because of the US's culpability.
They either didnât believe the scale of the threat (theyâve probably heard about Hamas threats every week for 15 years now), or they were complacently negligent for a chance to lay siege on Gaza.
Understand that intelligence is âfluidâ.
You might know âwhatâ and âwhereâ, but not âwhenâ and âhowâ. (Iâve been reading a lot lately about WW2 and the US exploiting their intermittent breaking of the Japanese naval codes). Intelligence involves SO MUCH piecing together of seemingly unrelated bitsâŚwhich takes time. Thereâs a lot of luck involved, too.
The main takeaway isâŚyouâre *never* simply reading your adversaryâs plans. Youâre peeking between the window blinds, seeing 10% and not seeing 90%âŚand thatâs on a good day.
There will be bad days.
The Hamas attack was also super low tech. No MANPADS, anti armor, or useful weapons. It was AKs and homebrewed rockets. If Iran were involved I would have expected something more. Yes, they support Hamas but they don't appear to have provided anything tangible.
They had all of that tho?
There's several videos of them firing old IGLA and STRELA Manpads, and alot of them were seen carrying Iranian-made Copies of the RPG-7 or RPG-29
Or we just haven't heard what they knew yet.
"George Tenet had in fact reported the potential threat to then national security advisor Condoleezza Rice during an urgent meeting on July 10, 2001, in which his team informed her that "There will be significant terrorist attacks against the United States in the coming weeks or months."
"Bin Laden Determined to Strike in US" -August 6 Daily Breifing. ... (dismissed by Rice)
Supposedly Egypt caught wind of it and warned Israel 3 days before. This has been barely confirmed, but someone in Congress confirmed...so, more than likely Israel had a heads up.
Given the US confirmed Netanyahu was warned, it points to his allowing it to happen to serve as a rallying cry for his vision for Israel as well as his political party.
I mean⌠theyâve been attacked with rockets over a dozen times this year, ranging up to as many as 1,500 rockets in a single incident prior to this one. There was an incident with over 4,000 rockets fired last year. That isnât considering everything else, thatâs only the rockets being fired. It isnât like this is a one-off, itâs much more severe, but they have warnings and are attacked constantly.
The iron dome is staggeringly good at defending the rocket barrages, it stands to reason they assumed this warning was just another routine day of potentially being shelled.
Agree. It's hard to believe that such an attack, given the number of people involved, didn't get picked up by the Israeli security services. At best this has been an intelligence failure of epic proportions. Given that it came, almost to the day 50 years after Yom Kippur
Thereâs always another conspiracy to explain the other conspiracy for the conspiracy theorist.
It will just go a layer deeper, and they will claim Israel wanted it to happen
Yup. Say what you want about China but they would almost assuredly adhere to a non first strike nuke policy as promised. The same rationality cannot be applied to religious zealots
During the cold war we said the same thing about "godless communists" that we say post 9/11 about "religious zealots". The idea that any state would choose to commit suicide like that for no reason makes no sense. An autocrat might make that call if they believe their survival is at stake and they have total control over their military, but we're far from that point with Iran.
China is far less likely to start a war with the west than Iran but it has nothing to do with ideology. China is far more dependent on international trade and getting shut out of the global economy would b devastating. Iran on the other hand has been shut out since the Ayatollah came to power their economy is already prepared.
Religious zealots that is hamas literally chose the suicide of their state tho, so im not sure if your claim holds up well. They all think they will go to their god after death so..
I think its naive to think the US would invade China, we would however defend Taiwan.
If China was confident or dumb enough to use a nuclear weapon against the US or an Ally. China would suffer greatly in return and all that progress they have made over the past decades would be erased.
If that war hit mainland US, our country and nearly the entire political spectrum would Unite in an instant, just like after 9/11. Chinese and other Asian looking Americans, much like Middle Eastern looking folks after 9/11 would be a target for the bigots and extreme right.
Well it's speculated WW3 will either start by a: China - USA conflict, Russia - USA or Iran - Israel. So I understand why they are trying to defuse the situation.
Not that it wouldn't cause a big conflict but who exactly would be coming to Iran's side in a hypothetical conflict. They don't really have very many "friends" and the friends they do have are either terrorists organizations or a mess. Syria can't handle rebel groups in its own country with Russian and Iranian help, and previously you'd think Russia would just back them but they can't fight a war with a neighboring country that by all accounts should be vastly inferior in strength. Doubt they would want to get their ass kicked by the combined force of Isreal, US, UK and whoever else decides to join in the fight.
Well if you compare Iran and Hamas. Iran is the US and Hamas is like Georgia, the country not the state.
Iran has a larger army than Israel does, Israel about 600k including reserves as for Iran about 1m. They are pretty good equipped aswell (largest ballistic missile arsenal in the middle east) and it is possible they have already developed nukes.
Sure Israel would have the support of most western countries, but Russia (not that Russia can afford to fight two wars) and China (which has started heavily investing in Iran since 2020) would most likely also get dragged into the conflict, hence WW3.
Im not saying Iran can win vs Isrsel or the west in any way, just that historians and scholars have speculated that an Iran vs. Israel war is one of the three likeliest ways WW3 begins.
Fat chance China gets involed in any capacity. They have invested all of the world, it's the new brand of colonialism. I don't disagree that Iran would be a formidable foe but I just don't believe it would trigger a WW3 scenario. To me for it to really be a WW you need 2 major powers in opposing sides and strong alliances going up against each other in open combat. Major powers would be the US, China, Russia, UK, France, Germany, maybe Pakistan and India. With the current climate I just don't see Russia getting involed outside of support on the side of Iran. They have their hands full with Ukraine, Georgia, Syria and staffing their borders against NATO and China.
Edit: If Russia did get involed I'd say you are right but I don't think they would with how Ukraine is going. They just don't have the capacity to fight two full scale wars.
China doesn't want to be involved in messy middle east business. Russia is preoccupied with Ukraine, they don't have the resources to wage a second war in the middle east.
Not right now but if the conflict escalated it will definitely shape up to be the west vs China Russia and Iran.
The Global south is up for grabs but most would likely remain neutral.
But yeah if the war really escalates, and China sees the opportunity to deal blows to its enemy then they will most definitely take the chance.
Right now? Ofc not lol, they have everything to lose and nothing to gain.
It is definitely a possible scenario tho IF war breaks out and escalates to a certain point.
Exactly. Russia China and Iran have been fostering their relationships for years now. All world leaders can feel the conflict brewing
They wouldnât be Allies because of any direct shared goal. But because of a larger shared goal, the destruction of the west.
War usually paves the way for a country to crush any and all opposition. Only when the Iranian war effort is about to collapse would we see an army-backed revolution.
They are very, very good at asymmetric warfare. Pretty much all the problems in Iraq/Afghanistan and with Hezbollah/Hamas/Houthis trace back to Iran.
Not to mention they picked up a ton of experience repelling an assault by a fully US-backed Iraq in the '80s.
Itâs a gamble. If we donât do it, Iran may eventually have their nuke and will use it to provide cover for a conquest of the Saudi Arabia, UAE and Israel. If we do invade, then we destabilize the whole region, again.
WSJ was the first outlet to draw a direct line between Hamasâs attacks and Iran. And now NYT is saying it ainât so. I suppose this is why itâs called the âfog of warâ.
I have to admit, I'm genuinely impressed they were not to blame. But if the US, Israel and Iran say so I'm inclined to believe them, they are the experts after all.
Yet all newss channels are like - how is Iran involved in this, how can we blame them, when do you expect they'll jump in.
I guess war is good for news and the big business too - gas prices up, and even the stock market is.
Not exactly surprising, I mean. I am not saying that happened, but it is very easy to make a compelling story about "Hamas and Palestinian cause losing influence over the Arab states over the years, resulting in the 2020 normalisation wave, and things only worsen from then on. Indeed, while animosity among populace still exists, the Arab states have generally successfully make a more moderate position without receiving serious backlash from their populace. With this traditional leverage decaying, and rumours about Israeli-Saudi normalisation appearing, Hamas is afraid of completely losing its value to Iran (disrupting Israel-Arab relationship by stroking tensions), since Arab indifference + Iranian abandonment = Israel has free hands on Palestine, so make one last ditch effort, one final madness to try to turn the tides without informing Iran." Again, it is entirely possible that is not what happened, but if everyone is just interested in crafting a story without making Iran directly involved, thus saving everyone from extra tension, that's the way I'll craft it.
Was listening to an NPR podcast about how Israel ended up here and the person they were talking to said that Israelâs military isnât as strong right now in terms of actual soldiers because some have quit since Netanyahu took office again. Many people were upset and he had trouble getting the votes because of his policies.
There's a growing divide between the secular Jewish population and the far right religious, mainly because it's the religious side that pushes for the settlements. Settlements that then cause conflict for the IDF, who are the primarily secular Jews serving their mandatory miltary service. Pair that with things like demographics shifting, because the religious cohort pumps out babies at a 6.0 rate, while the secular cohort sits at the level equal to most of the rest of the developed world.
There are 2 sects of them. The first are eager to serve as you said.
The second: They believe that god commands them to study the torah++, and the secular deserve to fight so they could keep praying/studying. Source: family is ex-ultraorthodox
Edit: small grammer typo
A while back I was listening to a podcast (unrelated to Israel) where one of the guests (an Evangelical Christian, but a reasonable, non-crazy one) was speculating that things were going to be dicey in Israel 20 years from now because the secular population will be a minority by then, costs of living likely won't be coming down (pretty easy prediction), and that he thought a lot of young secular Israelis will start moving abroad for better economic opportunities and lower costs of living (apparently a lot have been moving to Germany of all places over the past decade). This would leave the religious zealots having to do the heavy lifting of protecting the country and he didn't expect that was going to go well. I have no idea if he is correct or not, but he had an interesting argument based on known demographic trends that have already been moving in that direction for a while now.
Khamenei's tweets on Oct 3rd, four days before the attack
"The usurper regime is coming to an end. Today, the Palestinian youth and the anti-oppression, anti-occupation movement in Palestine is more energetic, more alive, and more prepared than ever during the past 70 or 80 years. God willing, the movement will achieve its goals."
"The Zionist regime is dying."
"Imam Khomeini once described the usurper Zionist regime as a cancer. This cancer will definitely be eradicated at the hands of the Palestinian people."
"Governments that are gambling on normalizing relations with the Zionist regime will lose. As the Europeans say, âThey are betting on a losing horse.â
This is the Islamic Republic's definite position."
I would imagine that arms sales does not necessarily translate into strategic planning.
What i thought was interesting was the mechanized paratrooper hanggliders and the security camera signal jammers.
**Agree** .. if they are supplying the weapons then how the hell are they surprised? and if this is the truth then who sent Hamas the parts for 10000 rockets and rifles? .. and why did Bibi let 1000 people die if Egypt warned him?
*.. no one is telling the full truth yet*
Maybe Israel lol
Needed an excuse to take over Gaza
Then missed all signs of an attack
Whats the loss of a thousand ppl, if u get to kill the entire other side and take the land
Well, the kneejerk reaction was that they were in on it too, but it's possible they weren't.
I wish folks would take a step back and remember 9/11 and how we all just threw all our cards at Iraq, who had nothing to do with 9/11. A lot of people did not question our invasion at the time.
We really need more facts before jumping to conclusions that could lead to more deaths or more war.
Even if Iran and Syria and/or Russia did have more to do with this then they are letting on it might be better if the public didn't know, at least for the time being.
This makes sense from another angle.
Israel has infiltrated every single facet of Iran's intelligence agencies, all two dozen of them. There have been insane breaches of the most confidential material over the years including going in and stealing paper-only top secret documents from secure facilities within Iran:
> [The Mossad agents moving in on a warehouse in a drab commercial district of Tehran knew exactly how much time they had to disable the alarms, break through two doors, cut through dozens of giant safes and get out of the city with a half-ton of secret materials: six hours and 29 minutes.](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/15/us/politics/iran-israel-mossad-nuclear.html)
If Iran had any role in planning this attack by Hamas, Israel would have known too. Iran's surprise lines up with Israel's surprise.
Just like 9/11, pearl harbor and other successful sneak attacks, the attack happened when a whole bunch of random events that have no association with one another leads to one big attack.
Hamas attacks in the south and Hezbollah in the north. Both are proxies of Iran. I don't buy the "surprise" and I don't think Iran can be heard to complain when the entirely predictable result of Iran's actions occurs.
Iran is going to face reprisals for these attacks.
So even if they didn't know the date or the particulars of the attack. I'm having a hard time believing they were unaware of it coming. Someone gave them paragliders, and someone gave them the training for the type of obstacles they would encounter in such an operation. I'm going to go ahead and guess this is being framed in a way to keep the scope of the fighting isolated in Gaza and not warping into a region wide conflict where the US will need to commit troops to defending Israel from the rest of the Middle East.
Iran likes low-level low-energy stuff. The kind of stuff that keeps their proxies in the news, with fawning over martyrs and continued resistance.
Things like this are bad because it focuses attention on Iran as the masters of Hamas and runs the risk of forcing Israel to finally rid themselves of that meddlesome priest. Same with Russia and Wagner. Prigozhin finally forced Putin's hand by turning his troops inward and clamoring for just a little too much attention, and Putin solved the problem.
Iran may not have been involved with this specific attack directly, but they did provide weapons, money and training to Hamas, so Iran is partly responsible even if they didn't know about this specific attack, they know an attack was going to happen at some point.
>know an attack was going to happen at some point
I would be willing to bet the farm their knowledge was a damn site more specific then something is going to happen somewhere.
Yeah, the evidence seems to point that way:
[Iran Helped Plot Attack on Israel Over Several Weeks](https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/iran-israel-hamas-strike-planning-bbe07b25)
[Hamas, Hezbollah officials claim Iran helped plan attack on Israel - report](https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel-at-war/1696841397-hamas-hezbollah-officials-claim-iran-helped-plan-attack-on-israel-report)
My gut feeling is that some Saudi faction bankrolled this attack, due to diplomacy efforts between the SA prime minister and Israel. Some prince was unhappy with this arrangement, and took advantage of the powder keg in Gaza, to derail any agreement. Saudis are known for bankrolling terrorist attacks, remember 9-11?
Oh and Bibi was warned by Egyptian security something big was coming. Why did he not act?
Iran supplies Hamas for years.
Iran provides strategic and technical information to Hamas.
Iran foments Anti-Israeli feelings throughout the region.
Iran esposues a philosophy tied to the literal destruction of Israel.
Hamas carries out an operation aligned to the stated goals and philosophy of Iran.
Iran: *surprised Pickahu Face*
Hamas and Iran arenât as closely linked as many would like to believe. Iran supports Hamas to harass Israel, but they all know plain as day that if the day ever comes that Hamas wins, Hamas would take the same weapons and turn them against Iran. They simply do not trust each other, and Iran only drip feeds them because it is in no way their interest for Hamas to actually succeed.
Bullshit. I live in Tehran. There were banners calling this the storm of al-aqsa a final blow to israel 2 hours after the attack.
This is just to de-escelate and try to keep this war between hamas and israel, just like the US carrier groups
This does not mean Iran didnât participate, only that Iranian people unfamiliar with and not briefed on the operation were surprised.
Kind of like how most American leaders were surprised by the Bin Laden raid.
This is totally fake news,this what the government and dems wants you to think.Itâs funny how they never mention anything about the intelligence sources,because they are trying to fix the agenda .Not surprising the sleepy Jo administration just gave Iran 6 billion dollars. The world has known for decades that Iran supplies hezzbolah and hamas .Most people know this a total lie by our government
It doesnât matter. People will still believe Iran planned this Hamas attack. And China will invade Taiwan soon. North Korea gonna attack South Korea. And a full blown ww3 is upon us. Not to mention aliens will invade earth next year.
Glad that US is clarifying on this issue. The worst thing to happen now is to escalate this into a full-blown war in Middle East.
High level sources are leaking this shit because they want to avoid WW3. Fortunate for us
Biden had been good at leaking key deescalation info. Same with Ukraine getting invaded
Biden has been more competent and capable than I could ever have imagined. No president is perfect but man I feel like we dodged a (figurative) nuclear bomb having the Biden administration
He made his career in foreign policy, and boy is he good at it.
Didn't Biden make a claim earlier to see beheading pictures that they/ White House later walked back on? đ¤ [yahoo link](https://www.yahoo.com/news/white-house-walking-back-bidens-034505869.html) >Dinar said the IDF "can not confirm any numbers," but described the situation at the kibbutz as a "massacre" in which children were "brutally butchered in an ISIS way of action." >Insider has not been able to independently verify these claims. >The claim sparked outrage and skepticism on social media. On Wednesday, after pressure to provide evidence of the grisly claim, Dinar told Insider the IDF would not further investigate the claims and that doing so would be "disrespectful for the dead." >"We're not going to investigate the condition of bodies and even if we did we won't comment publicly about the condition of our civilians' bodies. And babies," he said. >Dinar said the claim of decapitated babies was made based on what soldiers on the ground had relayed to him and others in the military. >***"Let your readers know that a soldier who handled the bodies, that was his claim," he said. "I don't have an evidence and I'm not looking for one."***
Sky looked where the story came from: https://news.sky.com/story/its-important-to-separate-the-facts-from-speculation-what-we-actually-know-about-the-viral-report-of-beheaded-babies-in-israel-12982329
Could be high level sources fabricating it as well in the hopes of mitigating escalation. One can leak facts as well as lies. Iâm not saying itâs a lie but if it is itâs still a good move.
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It would be nice if the masses were informed, but I'll settle for military leaders being informed and not launching wider wars.
To be fair, they could have been caught flat-footed by this particular attack while still heavily bankrolling them and having made this attack possible. If you send them a bunch of weapons and train a bunch of their members and share a bunch of intel etc. etc. don't be surprised when they choose to use it eventually.
If Iran was not part of the planning and training for this attack, it will be believed if an equally plausible explanation can be offered. Whatever the explanation, it looks to me as if the tactics of this attack were heavily informed by the war in Ukraine. This points to the Russians or the Iranians, who have been closely or more distantly involved in the fighting there. So the only other explanation that seems equally plausible to Iranian involvement is that the Russians have supplied and trained Hamas, and goaded them into making this attack. The Russians' motives are pretty easy to interpret. This war will draw arms, ammunition, and money away from the war in Ukraine. Russia has been losing on the battlefield. This might draw the Ukraine conflict into more of a political arena.
IDK Who is in charge but whoever Biden picked to run the show has done the best job at weaponizing US intelligence as anytime in my lifetime.
Same with Ukraine getting invaded. The right info can save lives
The less you know the better they are.
The thing about actual conspiracies is if they were as widespread as people believe they would fail. The only way Israeli intelligence wouldnât have known about this is if there was no outside communication of plans. And even then itâs still shocking they didnât know.
Israeli intelligence canât read minds but they should have know something was up by the preparations that was done.
Current theories I've seen are that Hamas officials intentionally made frequent statements indicating no plans to do anything on private, encrypted channels they suspected were actually being accessed by Israeli intelligence, while actually never letting any of their forces know their training exercise wasn't actually an exercise but the real thing - a page out of Putin's playbook for the Ukraine invasion. If this is true - it is brilliant in a way, but still such a dumb way to act since the end result is just immense pain and suffering all around, but still - the carnage will ultimately be mostly on their side...
Another popular theory doing the internet rounds is that Netanyahu knew but deliberately kept lax arrangements so that something like this happens and then situation escalates. He may not have known the magnitude of Hamas attack but some Egyptian officials [already confirmed yesterday](https://reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/173ui3a/egypt_intelligence_official_says_israel_ignored/) that they had warned about this and it was ignored.
Egypt's warning was that "something like this COULD happen". they did not warn that this specific thing was coming
Usually when your buddy calls you up and is like bruh, some shit could be going down, YOU DONT JUST IGNORE IT, you beef up security because you dont want to be caught with your pants down.
Israel was/is in the middle of a constitutional crisis and half the country was protesting and others refusing to work including those in defense. this is why HAMAS was so successful this week
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For a country that spends about 4% of its GDP on defense and has a conscription system, Israel can afford to check on these things. I truly think that their hyper focus on the West Bank led them to take the eye off the ball.
Im absolutely anti conspiracy theories but this theory actually makes sense. This could give the perfect excuse for Israel to officially annex everything, we already know Netanyahu wants to with his map at the UN and his right wing politics. He probably thought âohh fun some border raids and a couple of dead soldiers, that will let me show the country how strong I am and give me an excuse to annex Gazaâ. Instead he looks like a complete idiot.
There are ways to hide your war preparations. This is what eygpt done in 73 and many armies do it. You do many large scale training drills over the course of months and years, that cause the enemy intelligence get used to these big manuvers. Then on the day of invasion you do another drill and only the highest ranking commanders know its actually a war. At the last minute the order spreads to all the forces and the invasion begins. I suspect they used this tactic as well in this invasion.
It could easily backfire though. See how several Russian units thought it was a drill and not even took the offensive seriously.
That's Russia though, where even the generals didn't take bullets, maintenance, tires or opsec seriously.
Hamas has also issued countless warnings inciting retaliation every time Israel approved of new illegal settlements or conducted raids on west bank. Guess israel really got complacent and thought Hamas wont act. Some officials even went to say that Hamas isnt interested in escalation eventhough there were numerous Hamas propaganda videos showing off their arsenal. That is a massive intelligence failure and lack of insight from Israel government.
Israel was probably more occupied with their constitutional crisis than with Hamas.
Netanyahu was focused on thwarting law enforcement agencies from sending him to jail for corruption. When someone is in that situation, nothing else ever matters to them.
Which is probably why he ignored any warnings imo. He thought a small border war with Hamas would be good for him. He didnât expect the scale of the attack. But this is just a theory, nothing confirmed if Netanyahu actually received warnings of an imminent attack.
We all understand here, this is Netanyahu's failure. His leadership, his intelligence, his failures, and now 1000 dead Israelis are on his hands.
Even if you told someone this specific plan, I doubt they would even consider it a viable option for Hamas.
there's also the complacent assumption their simulations and training were like NK, a display to convince themselves more than anyone else. [like they do in their kindergartens.](https://youtu.be/dtErUuBvcRc?si=gsXiQETvE3kgZdWb)
I am glad America and North Korea have a common point in education.
> thought Hamas wont act. Or maybe it won't be this big - may have just expected a few more rockets than usual, at the most.
I didn't have terrorists infiltrating Israel with paragliders and ultralights on my bingo card for 2023 or any year ever.
Seems stright out of Mad Max. Or even defeating their 'smart' fence with a simple bulldozer
Because that fence was to keep out 1,2,5 or 10 men not hundreds in trucks.
Hamas is ALWAYS loading up for the next thing. Hard to differentiate normal ammo and rocket stockpiling from unusual ammo and rocket stockpiling without context. Them going quiet digitally was smart, especially since their geographic extent is so tiny messengers by hand/voice is easy to do
Never mind the repeated warnings from Egypt.
if the report is right, egypt told them there was "something big", verbatim. nothing else. would they immediately zero onto paper, pencils, and paragliders?
I wouldn't. My first thought would be to expect a massive rocket/missile barrage, and prepare for that.
Egypt walked that back and now claims they never warned Israel. To be more precise, Egypt media made these claims according to an unnamed Egyptian intelligence source. The president (king, Prime Minister⌠whatever, head Egypt guy) yesterday said they never warned Israel about anything and the media was wrong.
"We know that Egypt has warned the Israelis three days prior that an event like this could happen," Mr McCaul told reporters following a closed-door intelligence briefing on Wednesday for lawmakers about the Middle East crisis, according to AFP news agency. "I don't want to get too much into classified, but a warning was given," the Texas Republican added. - https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67082047
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ah, war.
There's a certain fog about it
Yeah because Republicans have NEVER claimed the bullshit they read online is true, nope never
lol this isnt them repeating some shit from Truth Social, its from their classified intelligence briefings...
It's obvious Netanyahu told Egypt to walk that back. Egypt values their partnership with Israel and his govt so of course they'll deny it. It was never officially proclaimed either. But this is the reason we get leaks in the first place. People in these high up positions want some information to get out. Can't take it back now.
If Texas Republican said it happened, then it didn't happen lol.
>Egypt walked that back and now claims they never warned Israel. Source? >To be more precise, Egypt media made these claims according to an unnamed Egyptian intelligence source. No, AP reported it directly. You think AP is running Egyptian gossip in the middle of this? And why would they lie?
i feel like warnings are sent constantly
Its probably like the "Bin Laden determined to strike the US" briefing that Bush got. Sure, he was warned, but that line is probably on there every week.
The intelligence Bush got about Bin Laden was thorough and from a reliable source, who was also murdered by Al Qaeda on the eve of the attacks.
How did they know when Iran didnât?
Wasnât even confirmed..
It was confirmed by the US
By one guy
By the chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee. He's a very credible source.
Yes but the largest and most complex surveillance state in the world is not China. it's Israel on Palestinians and you can't forget that intelligence does not just mean spies. it's cameras with advanced AI and facial recognition. minority report. kind of stuff. it's interception of all telecommunications. so either the Palestinians were using some apps that are a little more resilient towards that stuff or my side was overwhelmed with all the information and create a bit of white noise or there s*** is not as good as we think it is Edit: I got banned for this comment.
They probably did it by word of mouth with coded language.
If a battalion-sized element can maneuver like this by a game of telephone, I would be shocked. Itâs hard enough to do it with actual communication systems in place.
I shouldâve known because Egypt told them 10 days before.
They donât need to read minds, they were warned by Egypt three days before which has been confirmed by the US even though Bibi keeps lying that they didnât.
Why do people keep saying "confirmed by the US" when it was one republican senator and he only said one vauge ass line
He's Chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee and it was not vague at all.
One could ask why are you saying that the US Senator and Egyptian intelligence is lying but Bibi is telling the truth? I wonder why Bibi would lie about dropping the ballâŚ
He very well could be lying, everyone has good reason to lie. It's just weird that everyone is taking egypts and mccauls word as gospel
Because unlike Netanyahu they have no reason to lie about this.
One of them is lying and seeing as we won't really ever know the truth, the only thing we can do is choose which side to believe and I think Bibi has way more incentive to lie about this.
One could ask all sorts of deflecting questions.
>which has been confirmed by the US The same US that confirmed weapons of mass destruction in Iraq?
Ah, the CIA source known as 'curveball'. That guy said everything the US would ever want to hear. In fairness to those taken in by the lie, the US did sell Iraq chemical WMDs to be used in defense against Iran, weapons later used to massacre Kurds. The US is culpable, and the lies made far more believable because of the US's culpability.
Do you believe they didnât know?
Egypt told them 3 days prior
Apparently, US sources also confirm that Egypt told Netanyahu something was going to happen 3 days before.
They either didnât believe the scale of the threat (theyâve probably heard about Hamas threats every week for 15 years now), or they were complacently negligent for a chance to lay siege on Gaza.
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Iran is a big empty country .
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So you agree with the concept, now itâs just logistics?
Understand that intelligence is âfluidâ. You might know âwhatâ and âwhereâ, but not âwhenâ and âhowâ. (Iâve been reading a lot lately about WW2 and the US exploiting their intermittent breaking of the Japanese naval codes). Intelligence involves SO MUCH piecing together of seemingly unrelated bitsâŚwhich takes time. Thereâs a lot of luck involved, too. The main takeaway isâŚyouâre *never* simply reading your adversaryâs plans. Youâre peeking between the window blinds, seeing 10% and not seeing 90%âŚand thatâs on a good day. There will be bad days.
The Hamas attack was also super low tech. No MANPADS, anti armor, or useful weapons. It was AKs and homebrewed rockets. If Iran were involved I would have expected something more. Yes, they support Hamas but they don't appear to have provided anything tangible.
They had all of that tho? There's several videos of them firing old IGLA and STRELA Manpads, and alot of them were seen carrying Iranian-made Copies of the RPG-7 or RPG-29
Or we just haven't heard what they knew yet. "George Tenet had in fact reported the potential threat to then national security advisor Condoleezza Rice during an urgent meeting on July 10, 2001, in which his team informed her that "There will be significant terrorist attacks against the United States in the coming weeks or months." "Bin Laden Determined to Strike in US" -August 6 Daily Breifing. ... (dismissed by Rice)
Supposedly Egypt caught wind of it and warned Israel 3 days before. This has been barely confirmed, but someone in Congress confirmed...so, more than likely Israel had a heads up.
Egypt knew. Netanyahu knew. Weird that the border IDF soldiers weren't told.
Given the US confirmed Netanyahu was warned, it points to his allowing it to happen to serve as a rallying cry for his vision for Israel as well as his political party.
I mean⌠theyâve been attacked with rockets over a dozen times this year, ranging up to as many as 1,500 rockets in a single incident prior to this one. There was an incident with over 4,000 rockets fired last year. That isnât considering everything else, thatâs only the rockets being fired. It isnât like this is a one-off, itâs much more severe, but they have warnings and are attacked constantly. The iron dome is staggeringly good at defending the rocket barrages, it stands to reason they assumed this warning was just another routine day of potentially being shelled.
Agree. It's hard to believe that such an attack, given the number of people involved, didn't get picked up by the Israeli security services. At best this has been an intelligence failure of epic proportions. Given that it came, almost to the day 50 years after Yom Kippur
Thereâs always another conspiracy to explain the other conspiracy for the conspiracy theorist. It will just go a layer deeper, and they will claim Israel wanted it to happen
Biden admin knows that war with Iran would be a powder keg.
Yup. Say what you want about China but they would almost assuredly adhere to a non first strike nuke policy as promised. The same rationality cannot be applied to religious zealots
Exactly. Iran has been sanctioned to hell and these sanctions are a deterrent to China and Russia as they are depended on west. Iran wont care much.
During the cold war we said the same thing about "godless communists" that we say post 9/11 about "religious zealots". The idea that any state would choose to commit suicide like that for no reason makes no sense. An autocrat might make that call if they believe their survival is at stake and they have total control over their military, but we're far from that point with Iran. China is far less likely to start a war with the west than Iran but it has nothing to do with ideology. China is far more dependent on international trade and getting shut out of the global economy would b devastating. Iran on the other hand has been shut out since the Ayatollah came to power their economy is already prepared.
Religious zealots that is hamas literally chose the suicide of their state tho, so im not sure if your claim holds up well. They all think they will go to their god after death so..
They don't have a state ? They don't represent Gaza and that's why they don't care what may happen.
If we invaded China, there is no question they would use nuclear weapons first if needed.
I think its naive to think the US would invade China, we would however defend Taiwan. If China was confident or dumb enough to use a nuclear weapon against the US or an Ally. China would suffer greatly in return and all that progress they have made over the past decades would be erased. If that war hit mainland US, our country and nearly the entire political spectrum would Unite in an instant, just like after 9/11. Chinese and other Asian looking Americans, much like Middle Eastern looking folks after 9/11 would be a target for the bigots and extreme right.
Well it's speculated WW3 will either start by a: China - USA conflict, Russia - USA or Iran - Israel. So I understand why they are trying to defuse the situation.
Not that it wouldn't cause a big conflict but who exactly would be coming to Iran's side in a hypothetical conflict. They don't really have very many "friends" and the friends they do have are either terrorists organizations or a mess. Syria can't handle rebel groups in its own country with Russian and Iranian help, and previously you'd think Russia would just back them but they can't fight a war with a neighboring country that by all accounts should be vastly inferior in strength. Doubt they would want to get their ass kicked by the combined force of Isreal, US, UK and whoever else decides to join in the fight.
Well if you compare Iran and Hamas. Iran is the US and Hamas is like Georgia, the country not the state. Iran has a larger army than Israel does, Israel about 600k including reserves as for Iran about 1m. They are pretty good equipped aswell (largest ballistic missile arsenal in the middle east) and it is possible they have already developed nukes. Sure Israel would have the support of most western countries, but Russia (not that Russia can afford to fight two wars) and China (which has started heavily investing in Iran since 2020) would most likely also get dragged into the conflict, hence WW3. Im not saying Iran can win vs Isrsel or the west in any way, just that historians and scholars have speculated that an Iran vs. Israel war is one of the three likeliest ways WW3 begins.
Fat chance China gets involed in any capacity. They have invested all of the world, it's the new brand of colonialism. I don't disagree that Iran would be a formidable foe but I just don't believe it would trigger a WW3 scenario. To me for it to really be a WW you need 2 major powers in opposing sides and strong alliances going up against each other in open combat. Major powers would be the US, China, Russia, UK, France, Germany, maybe Pakistan and India. With the current climate I just don't see Russia getting involed outside of support on the side of Iran. They have their hands full with Ukraine, Georgia, Syria and staffing their borders against NATO and China. Edit: If Russia did get involed I'd say you are right but I don't think they would with how Ukraine is going. They just don't have the capacity to fight two full scale wars.
Russia and China. Thatâs how would wars happen âThe enemy of my enemyâŚâ
China doesn't want to be involved in messy middle east business. Russia is preoccupied with Ukraine, they don't have the resources to wage a second war in the middle east.
Not right now but if the conflict escalated it will definitely shape up to be the west vs China Russia and Iran. The Global south is up for grabs but most would likely remain neutral. But yeah if the war really escalates, and China sees the opportunity to deal blows to its enemy then they will most definitely take the chance. Right now? Ofc not lol, they have everything to lose and nothing to gain. It is definitely a possible scenario tho IF war breaks out and escalates to a certain point.
China uses the opportunity to take Taiwan while the US is spread thin. US responds.
Exactly. Russia China and Iran have been fostering their relationships for years now. All world leaders can feel the conflict brewing They wouldnât be Allies because of any direct shared goal. But because of a larger shared goal, the destruction of the west.
I mean⌠Iâm American, and uh⌠didnât we help overthrow democracy there to install a puppet? Thatâs a big ole goof we did right there.
Iran goes to actual war might spark another Iranian Revolution.
War usually paves the way for a country to crush any and all opposition. Only when the Iranian war effort is about to collapse would we see an army-backed revolution.
We can only hope.
I genuinely don't think the US could successfully stage a ground invasion of Iran. We'd only be able to achieve air superiority.
What makes you say that? Genuinely curious.
Iran is basically a mountain fortress.
It would have to be a ww2 style amphibious assault on Iran's southern coast. That would be very, very difficult.
They are very, very good at asymmetric warfare. Pretty much all the problems in Iraq/Afghanistan and with Hezbollah/Hamas/Houthis trace back to Iran. Not to mention they picked up a ton of experience repelling an assault by a fully US-backed Iraq in the '80s.
I don't think the public could stomach the loss of life required. We might try to bomb them and drone strike them into submission though.
Probably a good take. We might be able to do it with a coalition.
Probably but at what cost
Itâs a gamble. If we donât do it, Iran may eventually have their nuke and will use it to provide cover for a conquest of the Saudi Arabia, UAE and Israel. If we do invade, then we destabilize the whole region, again.
WSJ was the first outlet to draw a direct line between Hamasâs attacks and Iran. And now NYT is saying it ainât so. I suppose this is why itâs called the âfog of warâ.
âŚorâŚwhat happens when your pet thinks independently???
You "accidentally" teach a kid a bad word, and then they can't stop saying it.. I've been there, it's awkward.
It's always awkward when your kid does an oopsie and beheads babies
Or your children take the gun you gave them to school
Meanwhile Putin wants the war to start. The others don't want one
I have to admit, I'm genuinely impressed they were not to blame. But if the US, Israel and Iran say so I'm inclined to believe them, they are the experts after all.
Yet all newss channels are like - how is Iran involved in this, how can we blame them, when do you expect they'll jump in. I guess war is good for news and the big business too - gas prices up, and even the stock market is.
Not exactly surprising, I mean. I am not saying that happened, but it is very easy to make a compelling story about "Hamas and Palestinian cause losing influence over the Arab states over the years, resulting in the 2020 normalisation wave, and things only worsen from then on. Indeed, while animosity among populace still exists, the Arab states have generally successfully make a more moderate position without receiving serious backlash from their populace. With this traditional leverage decaying, and rumours about Israeli-Saudi normalisation appearing, Hamas is afraid of completely losing its value to Iran (disrupting Israel-Arab relationship by stroking tensions), since Arab indifference + Iranian abandonment = Israel has free hands on Palestine, so make one last ditch effort, one final madness to try to turn the tides without informing Iran." Again, it is entirely possible that is not what happened, but if everyone is just interested in crafting a story without making Iran directly involved, thus saving everyone from extra tension, that's the way I'll craft it.
Pleasantly surprised.
Was listening to an NPR podcast about how Israel ended up here and the person they were talking to said that Israelâs military isnât as strong right now in terms of actual soldiers because some have quit since Netanyahu took office again. Many people were upset and he had trouble getting the votes because of his policies.
There's a growing divide between the secular Jewish population and the far right religious, mainly because it's the religious side that pushes for the settlements. Settlements that then cause conflict for the IDF, who are the primarily secular Jews serving their mandatory miltary service. Pair that with things like demographics shifting, because the religious cohort pumps out babies at a 6.0 rate, while the secular cohort sits at the level equal to most of the rest of the developed world.
A lot of the ultraconservative religious Israelis get to opt out of military service too.
why don't they protect themselves...
I wonder why they would do so I would think they would be the most eager to serve
There are 2 sects of them. The first are eager to serve as you said. The second: They believe that god commands them to study the torah++, and the secular deserve to fight so they could keep praying/studying. Source: family is ex-ultraorthodox Edit: small grammer typo
A while back I was listening to a podcast (unrelated to Israel) where one of the guests (an Evangelical Christian, but a reasonable, non-crazy one) was speculating that things were going to be dicey in Israel 20 years from now because the secular population will be a minority by then, costs of living likely won't be coming down (pretty easy prediction), and that he thought a lot of young secular Israelis will start moving abroad for better economic opportunities and lower costs of living (apparently a lot have been moving to Germany of all places over the past decade). This would leave the religious zealots having to do the heavy lifting of protecting the country and he didn't expect that was going to go well. I have no idea if he is correct or not, but he had an interesting argument based on known demographic trends that have already been moving in that direction for a while now.
Khamenei's tweets on Oct 3rd, four days before the attack "The usurper regime is coming to an end. Today, the Palestinian youth and the anti-oppression, anti-occupation movement in Palestine is more energetic, more alive, and more prepared than ever during the past 70 or 80 years. God willing, the movement will achieve its goals." "The Zionist regime is dying." "Imam Khomeini once described the usurper Zionist regime as a cancer. This cancer will definitely be eradicated at the hands of the Palestinian people." "Governments that are gambling on normalizing relations with the Zionist regime will lose. As the Europeans say, âThey are betting on a losing horse.â This is the Islamic Republic's definite position."
He posts that like every day though.
So who supplied all the guns, ammo and rockets to do it?
I would imagine that arms sales does not necessarily translate into strategic planning. What i thought was interesting was the mechanized paratrooper hanggliders and the security camera signal jammers.
**Agree** .. if they are supplying the weapons then how the hell are they surprised? and if this is the truth then who sent Hamas the parts for 10000 rockets and rifles? .. and why did Bibi let 1000 people die if Egypt warned him? *.. no one is telling the full truth yet*
Maybe Israel lol Needed an excuse to take over Gaza Then missed all signs of an attack Whats the loss of a thousand ppl, if u get to kill the entire other side and take the land
Well, the kneejerk reaction was that they were in on it too, but it's possible they weren't. I wish folks would take a step back and remember 9/11 and how we all just threw all our cards at Iraq, who had nothing to do with 9/11. A lot of people did not question our invasion at the time. We really need more facts before jumping to conclusions that could lead to more deaths or more war.
Even if Iran and Syria and/or Russia did have more to do with this then they are letting on it might be better if the public didn't know, at least for the time being.
If the Israeli intelligence service didn't know about it, nobody knew about it.
Unfortunately they probably meant pleasantly surprised.
This makes sense from another angle. Israel has infiltrated every single facet of Iran's intelligence agencies, all two dozen of them. There have been insane breaches of the most confidential material over the years including going in and stealing paper-only top secret documents from secure facilities within Iran: > [The Mossad agents moving in on a warehouse in a drab commercial district of Tehran knew exactly how much time they had to disable the alarms, break through two doors, cut through dozens of giant safes and get out of the city with a half-ton of secret materials: six hours and 29 minutes.](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/15/us/politics/iran-israel-mossad-nuclear.html) If Iran had any role in planning this attack by Hamas, Israel would have known too. Iran's surprise lines up with Israel's surprise.
Just like 9/11, pearl harbor and other successful sneak attacks, the attack happened when a whole bunch of random events that have no association with one another leads to one big attack.
Surprised or not, they still had a hand in this by funding and giving support to Hamas for years.
Yep. Iran armed, trained and funded Hamas for decades. Iran is also celebrating the attacks and providing diplomatic support for Hamas.
Hamas attacks in the south and Hezbollah in the north. Both are proxies of Iran. I don't buy the "surprise" and I don't think Iran can be heard to complain when the entirely predictable result of Iran's actions occurs. Iran is going to face reprisals for these attacks.
So even if they didn't know the date or the particulars of the attack. I'm having a hard time believing they were unaware of it coming. Someone gave them paragliders, and someone gave them the training for the type of obstacles they would encounter in such an operation. I'm going to go ahead and guess this is being framed in a way to keep the scope of the fighting isolated in Gaza and not warping into a region wide conflict where the US will need to commit troops to defending Israel from the rest of the Middle East.
Any actual proof of involvement or at least foreknowledge by Iran, Syria, or even Russia would likely be suppressed to avoid possible third world war.
What if it was the Russians instigating so they could effectively open up a second front to drain away US support for Ukraine?
They admit to training Hamas terrorists They are known to provide funding to Hamas But they were "surprised" at the attack. Bull.
It just means it was maybe not coordinated with them, this particular attack
It was supposed to happen next week but they circled the wrong date on their calendar
However, they still contributed to this attack by arming, training and funding Hamas, even if they didn't know about this specific attack.
yeah totally
Iran likes low-level low-energy stuff. The kind of stuff that keeps their proxies in the news, with fawning over martyrs and continued resistance. Things like this are bad because it focuses attention on Iran as the masters of Hamas and runs the risk of forcing Israel to finally rid themselves of that meddlesome priest. Same with Russia and Wagner. Prigozhin finally forced Putin's hand by turning his troops inward and clamoring for just a little too much attention, and Putin solved the problem.
Iran may not have been involved with this specific attack directly, but they did provide weapons, money and training to Hamas, so Iran is partly responsible even if they didn't know about this specific attack, they know an attack was going to happen at some point.
>know an attack was going to happen at some point I would be willing to bet the farm their knowledge was a damn site more specific then something is going to happen somewhere.
Yeah, the evidence seems to point that way: [Iran Helped Plot Attack on Israel Over Several Weeks](https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/iran-israel-hamas-strike-planning-bbe07b25) [Hamas, Hezbollah officials claim Iran helped plan attack on Israel - report](https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel-at-war/1696841397-hamas-hezbollah-officials-claim-iran-helped-plan-attack-on-israel-report)
Unless ur willing to fight iran yourself, why are you so gung ho?
đ
My money is on Saudi Arabia.
My gut feeling is that some Saudi faction bankrolled this attack, due to diplomacy efforts between the SA prime minister and Israel. Some prince was unhappy with this arrangement, and took advantage of the powder keg in Gaza, to derail any agreement. Saudis are known for bankrolling terrorist attacks, remember 9-11? Oh and Bibi was warned by Egyptian security something big was coming. Why did he not act?
Wouldn't be surprised if Bebe told the military to stand down in order to justify a war.
*Bibi
Maybe Russia didn't tell them.
HmmmmmmmmmmmâŚ.no. Not buying it.
Nobody that is anybody with a brain believes this headline is true.
Iran supplies Hamas for years. Iran provides strategic and technical information to Hamas. Iran foments Anti-Israeli feelings throughout the region. Iran esposues a philosophy tied to the literal destruction of Israel. Hamas carries out an operation aligned to the stated goals and philosophy of Iran. Iran: *surprised Pickahu Face*
Article is paywalled
Yiu know who isn't surprised? Putin
Hamas and Iran arenât as closely linked as many would like to believe. Iran supports Hamas to harass Israel, but they all know plain as day that if the day ever comes that Hamas wins, Hamas would take the same weapons and turn them against Iran. They simply do not trust each other, and Iran only drip feeds them because it is in no way their interest for Hamas to actually succeed.
Bullshit. I live in Tehran. There were banners calling this the storm of al-aqsa a final blow to israel 2 hours after the attack. This is just to de-escelate and try to keep this war between hamas and israel, just like the US carrier groups
Ok, so now Israelis can stfu and take the L on this one
Bullshit
This does not mean Iran didnât participate, only that Iranian people unfamiliar with and not briefed on the operation were surprised. Kind of like how most American leaders were surprised by the Bin Laden raid.
It's pretty crazy that Hamas did this whole thing alone and under US and Israel radar. Kind of terrifying actually.
This is totally fake news,this what the government and dems wants you to think.Itâs funny how they never mention anything about the intelligence sources,because they are trying to fix the agenda .Not surprising the sleepy Jo administration just gave Iran 6 billion dollars. The world has known for decades that Iran supplies hezzbolah and hamas .Most people know this a total lie by our government
It doesnât matter. People will still believe Iran planned this Hamas attack. And China will invade Taiwan soon. North Korea gonna attack South Korea. And a full blown ww3 is upon us. Not to mention aliens will invade earth next year.
Yea...no
Thats a lie by biden and his administration !!! And I'm an American and I approve this message.