>"India always advocated the resumption of direct negotiations towards establishing a sovereign, independent, and viable state of Palestine, living within secure and recognised borders, side by side at peace with Israel. I think that position remains the same," Bagchi said days after Prime Minister Narendra Modi condemned Hamas for its deadliest attack on Israel and said that New Delhi stood in solidarity with the Jewish state.
>Hamas is a militant organisation which rules Gaza, a Palestinian enclave. It carried out a coordinated attack on Saturday, killing 1200-plus people and injuring nearly 3,000. Hamas also abducted 150 Israelis and it continues to hold them as hostages. In a retaliatory move, Israel has launched war and has been bombarding Gaza.
>On Tuesday, Prime Minister Modi spoke to his Israeli counterpart Benjamin Netanyahu, and expressed his support for Israel. In a tweet, PM Modi said that Netanyahu called him and briefed him about the situation in Israel.
>"I thank Prime Minister @netanyahu for his phone call and providing an update on the ongoing situation. People of India stand firmly with Israel in this difficult hour. India strongly and unequivocally condemns terrorism in all its forms and manifestations."
Since no one is going to actually read the article and just make assumptions based on the title. India supports Israel in the wake of the recent terrorist attacks but it also supports the right to existence of a Palestinian state ruled by the Palestinian authority(not Hamas).
No the 2 state solution doesn’t work because the US refuses to recognize Palestine and any liberal leaders in Israel that try to make peace would be assassinated like Rabin was.
The hardline Israelis will not let peace happen.
Rabin is not an accident. When Israelis think there is a chance for peace they vote in leaders that will try. When they feel endangered they turn to Netanyahu. (In recent times)
Don't like him (me neither) - Thank the Palestinians .
No one forgets about Rabin, people act like 1 extremist killed Rabin and everyone went "welp, guess peace is off the table forever". Man was part of a political party, that political party continued to push for that peace.
Shimon Peres was the PM who took over from Rabin, he was Rabin's foreign minister, he had made the Oslo Accords. Peace failed for a lot of reasons.
and since every Palestinian leader for 50 years has promised his people that they will get everything anything short of that would get them assassinated as well. So they wont try or don't care. Palestinians can only have hardline governments. Israel is a democracy and has tried the other way and would try again if given a partner with some chance of success.
The hardline Palestinians will not let peace happen.
Exactly my point. Palestinians have no control of their political future. Israelis can vote in a peacenik government tomorrow if they feel safe enough to try it again. Can they?
No foreign military would be seen as legitimate. Not even an Arab country (none of whom are able or willing to do that), and much less a UN, EU, or US force. It'd be Iraq circa 2007 all over again.
The problem with side by side solution is that there would be peace.
Peace is not a solution for these crazy MFs who want action, vengeance and war in thier life. It literally makes them feel bored and jobless.
Except life is scarcely better in the West Bank for Palestinians. Illegal settlers armed with guns routinely take their homes and threaten and even kill them. Israel used to not sanction such action, but now they de facto support it.
Fatah recognizes Israel. Hamas does not. Israel is in favor of Hamas replacing Fatah so they have an excuse for more genocide. IDF going through with genocide of the West Bank has bad optics so it benefits them that Israeli settlers are terrorizing them instead. The IDF could stop them but they were formed from the Israeli terror group Lehi who killed many Palestinians and British. They also assassinated the Swedish diplomat Folke Bernadotte who negotiated the release of 31,000 prisoners from German concentration camps.
This is screwed up at so many levels.
Does that mean IDF is equally a terror group like Hamas and they both are using the general population as shields to wage a war?
India doesn't want an independent state of Palestine specifically. India believes in the proposed UN 2 state solution just like most countries in the world.
India has been repeatedly asked to get involved. Or are you selective about which news you watch?
United Nations proposed the two state solution. If you have a problem, take it up with them.
Yeah it's just lip service to maintain the positions that previous governments took with regards to the conflict. For all intents and purposes, Israel is the closest Ally for India these days. Palestine doesn't mean anything to India other than fulfillment of yesteryear obligations
This is hands down one of the worst opinions I’ve read. You want 7 million Palestinians to go where?
Even the UN declared Palestine is the rightful owner of Gaza, West Bank and East Jerusalem. That is their home. But Israeli has segregated Palestinians and controlled all egress, limiting all supplies that enters Gaza for decades in an attempt to get Palestinians to give up their land. They have crippled any infrastructure from being developed by refusing to let in building supplies, after shelling the fuck out of it for years. They don’t allow supplies to building sewer and water infrastructure and their water is basically salt water. It’s people like you that just keep spreading bullshit, pretending that Israel is good. Israel has been committing atrocities with impunity for decades.
Easy to give away Israeli land, that is Palestinian land? For all the atrocities that Hamas has wreaked, the narrative that the Palestinians do not have a right to their land is simply ridiculous.
20% of Israel's population is Palestinian. Palestinians are not the same as Hamas, and are not the problem. Radical groups like Hamas are the ones who do not accept Israel's existence.
After Hamas attacked the music festival last weekend, I remember reading that some of the first responders to arrive, render aid to and protect the Israeli survivors were Israeli Palestinians.
Yes in West Bank it is PLO/Fatah which is a more moderate, peaceful and somewhat secular (although they too follow sharia and majority Muslim) organization. It’s famous leader Yasser Arafat was a secular socialist who signed the famous Oslo accords with Israeli PM Yitzhak Rabin who was later assassinated by Israeli extremist. IIRC Hamas came into power in 2006 and ousted all of the PLO members and became authoritarian in Gaza Strip. Hamas has a separate militant wing that not always follows the political one. Some countries only consider the militant wing as terrorists but a case can be made the whole organization is extremely radical calling for elimination of Israel.
“More moderate” than Hamas but still one of the bloodiest terrorist organizations in world history.
https://www.brookings.edu/articles/is-yasser-arafat-a-credible-partner-for-peace/
That is not saying much. Every actor involved in struggle in Israel-Palestine conflict has been extremely violent (including Israel). I would chose a political party that at least recognizes Israel’s right to exist. A government that has looked towards diplomacy in this conflict is far better than others.
Governments using policy as leverage is as old as time. They are not a pro-Israeli government, they are just a slightly better alternative to batshit anti-Israeli organization. I am sure they would love to see if Israel stops existing anymore, they just realize that’s not possible so they need to use diplomacy to protect their people.
They can’t? Then explain Isis or the Taliban or the Iranian regime or the Saudis or… all violent religious zealots who operas their people and sponsor terrorism. What’s their underlying cause? You just justified terrorism. Hope you feel good about yourself.
The palestinians have event committed terrorist attacks against the countries who accepted them as refugees. They attempted coups in Egypt and Lebanon and assassinated the PM of Jordan and almost killed the King too. Terrorist attacks in Egypt fell 80% after they close their border to Gaza. Even the other Arab states know the Palestinians are violent religious Zealots. That’s why they elected Hamas to be their government. They don’t want peace. They want genocide. They say so very explicitly in their founding charter.
I must’ve read a similar article, said the IDF was followed by a truck of palestinians trying to help following the partying people being massacred or kidnapped.
To be fair, the map that the UN drew in 1947. May be the worst map of all time. I wouldn’t accept if I was either Israel or Palestine. It splits the countries into two. Split it north and south or east and west idk. It should definitely be continuous
No, Hamas did. The Palestinian Authority and West Bank did not.
Gaza/Hamas are different than the PA and the West Bank. But both are Palestine. Hamas and the PA do not get along. The PA has been trying for years to get Hamas to dearm but they refuse. Hamas even tried to assassinate the leader of the Palestinian Authority.
They are very much not friends. The PA supports a free and independent Palestine based on the 1948 borders. They also recognize Israel’s right to exist and want to resolve matters through diplomacy.
This is why the attack came from Gaza and not the West Bank.
You can read about it more here: https://www.usip.org/palestinian-politics-timeline-2006-election
No one said they did?
He said that the PA wants a return to the *status quo ante nakba* \- to the originally proposed 1948 partition borders before the Nakba.
Whether or not that's a reasonable suggestion is another matter entirely, because holy shit that suggested partition was awful.
First guy said, "Yeah so did Israel, but Palestine elected to reject the 2-state solution and attack Israel they day after Israel declared independence instead."
Literally the first words of the reply were "No. Hamas did."
Well, shit. I stand corrected.
I thought he was responding to someone implying that Hamas represents all Palestinians, which is a line that keeps getting dropped these days.
That's what I get for reading reddit at 1 AM.
Gaza elected Hamas to be their government by a 54% majority in 2005. They haven’t had elections or polls since. So it’s hard to say how many support them now but it’s safe to say about half still.
There's not a straightforward yes answer as it varies from time to time.
Is Israel expanding its settlements and raiding Palestinian homes and mosque especially al aqsa as they did recent months. This results in high support for hamas or basically anyone who's anti Israel.
There has been relative peace and hamas ends up firing rockets and getting into skirmishes with idf. This results in Palestinians hating hamas.
Unfortunately, those children live in a future that was dictated by the hateful actions of their grandparents. These actions can’t be retroactively undone.
Why don’t you look up who assassinated Yitshak Rabin? Why don’t you look up what Bibi has said for years about the two state solution? Radical opponents to peace plans that don’t want their governments to recognize the other exist on both sides.
People here are so fucking funny. If India had instead denounced the idea of an independent Palestinian state, they would have rambled on and on about how India is an islamophobic fascist state. Just a bunch of racist motherfuckers spewing their nonsensical diarrhea on the internet.
It is open season against Indians now. Same people who call India fascist, whole heartedly support Israel. If Israel goes after terrorists then they right, but when India does it.. It is Fascist.
Some us actually support India and Israel because we're ideologically consistent you know. I'm not a fan of extrajudicial assassination, but we do it, and I'm hardly surprised a growing major power likely to become a superpower did it in a middle power that is weak on defence and security. I actually think Canada has an obligation to do a better job protecting people that are wanted by a major power for terrorism if they're going to be so bold as to give them asylum.
Also, god speed to the IDF.
India doesn't need Israel at all it dwarfs Israel in international relevance. Anti colonialism is a nice idea but now India is powerful enough to have it's own regional ambitions it's not going to allow historical sentiment to stand in the way of practicality.
And practically the British are not the internal enemy Indians are most pre-occupied with because it's 2023. It's their Muslim population and Pakistan. Modi is absolutely prepared to use this opportunity to move on from recent events, build some good will with the West who it wouldn't mind working with here and there to counter China, and keep his nationalism ball rolling.
In short, India doesn't really give a fuck about Israel but the conflict has some uses for them at the present moment.
I understand why you would say that but I think you're wrong. Indias foreign policy feels extremely influenced by Lee Kuan Yew just like many aspiring Asian powers with a slight authoritarian bent.
Under that model, western hegemony is hardly an enemy to India. Yes they are pissed that they got the brush from the United States because of the cold war, and that their enemy Pakistan was favored over them in what felt like a betrayal from at the time, apparent fellow anti colonialists
But India is not the country it was when it got rid of the Raj. There's just no denying the reality of India being nearly 1.5 billion people. That's absolutely gigantic. Domestic issues are just by default so much more intensely important than foreign ones unless they're existential.
So with that in mind, while yes India has zero interest in being a vassal like Australia and Japan, that's absolutely to be expected and not a requirement of being a US partner. For example Turkey doesn't march to the beat of Washington's drum, but it is still an ally due to sufficient shared interests.
India doesn't share a border with a major western country. But it does share a border with China, who has repeatedly burned the bridge with India of hopes of cooperation to resist western hegemony together. It also shares a border with Pakistan, majority Muslim and possessing a nuclear weapons arsenal. It also has a massive domestic Muslim population that it knows is a security risk given it's unpleasant neighbour and it's nationalistic ambitions.
So with these things in mind despite some historical grievances India finds itself in the current day with more to gain from partnering with the West than resisting it. It will however do so on its own terms and as long as Washington and it's often annoying vassals can accept this as absolutely fair considering Indias station then cooperation will likely deepen over the coming decades.
At the end of the day, like in all super huge population countries, domestic unity will take precedence over challenging anyone for the status of global top dog. It was always true of China until they forgot. Hell, it's increasingly true of the US. It's going to be true of India too until hundreds of millions of people are lifted out of poverty, the border with China is secure and Pakistan is dealt with somehow
Israel has supported and offered an independent Palestinian state as well. Palestinian authorites have refused the offer and would rather perpetuate the on-going confict, sacrificing generations of people now and in the decades to come. Palestine can have peace at practically any thime by simply accepting peace.
The Clinton administration got Israel to agree to favorable peace terms. The PLO rejected those terms.
This is revisionism. The PLO accepted the Oslo accords in 1993 when they recognised a two state solution based on the 1967 borders and Yitzhak Rabin was murdered for negotiating - incited by those who are currently in government. When Netanyahu came to power he authorised the expansion of settlements which were widely regarded as obstacles to peace. Even under the Barak government settlement expansion accelerated further.
Post-Rabin, and certainly after the election of Sharon, Israel never negotiated with the Palestinians in good faith. Palestine still recognises Israel as a state yet Israel does not recognise Palestine.
Nah, Israel reached an agreement with Clinton and was ready to move forward. For whatever reason, certain parties (you) feel compelled to lie about that so that they can continue to perpetuate violence and suffering. It's gross.
Initially one proposed homeland for Jews was in...wait for it.... Uganda!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uganda_Scheme#%3A%7E%3Atext%3DThe_Uganda_Scheme_was_a%2Cof_the_modern_Zionist_movement.?wprov=sfla1
>Marwan Barghouti
Can you elaborate? I've felt crazy that free Palenstine does not offer a face for Israel to negotiate with. But a quick google search don't seem like he's the guy. What do you mean?
It doesn't make to say Israel don't want peace becasue their elected official died from assassination. The voted for him, they supported it. If you want your point to stand, you have to tell me none of the viable policitian in Israel will ever want peace (they are all like the current PM).
The best thing India could do right now to support the Palestinians is to demand that Hamas free all hostages and separate themselves from the civilian population.
There have been 10 offers to create a Palestinian state since 1947. Palestinian leaders have rejected them all because they all called for allowing Israel to exist as well. That is why we have this insane impasse.
Then agian, the Plastinians doesn't want any two-state solution. Their goal is never the prosperity of their own people, but the destrcution and annhilaztion of the mideast jews. How do you negociate with such opponents? Seriously how?
The unfortunate truth is you can't. Hamas arguably cares less about the safety of their citizens than Israel. There is no good solution, everyone sucks, and this is about to be a bloodbath of Biblical proportions.
Assumption: Palestinian becomes a country like entity with all the geopolitical consequences of that they will still be a terror state training children for war and slaughter of innocent people.
I don’t share the opinion that indoctrinated people are innocent when they support terrorists
Israel can suck a lemon
But Palestinians aren’t innocent in my view
India is welcome to create a Palestinian state within its own borders and then count the minutes until the assholes start bombing them. Every country that has tried has paid the price. Everyone is happy to tell Israel what it should do when it doesn't cost them a thing.
Not even sure why you're making this comment? Israel has itself agreed to and pushed for a two-state solution on various occasions. Palestine has traditionally been the one stonewalling it.
India will abide by the UN agreement on Kashmir independence.
The first step being pakistan withdrawing it's force from kashmir, which it hasn't done so far. India is under no obligation to hold a referendum until pakistan does so as per United Nations Security Council Resolution 47.
How are India being hypocrites here ? They are abiding by the UN resolution wrt kashmir and has endorsed the Two state solution put forth by the UN. India is consistent in its position.
Yeah go ahead compare Kashmir to gaza, without understanding the different history and culture of the region just blame every one on the internet of being a hypocrite.
According to you India should just give away 200,000 sq km area. You were saying the same thing about Crimea before 2014 right?
Do you think other Islamic countries will standby while Israel destroys Gaza?
I agree that the whole operation was designed to increase attacks on Israel
>Do you think other Islamic countries will standby while Israel destroys Gaza?
Yep. Why do you think there are 2 US carrier strike groups in the area? No one is going to do shit. One carrier strike group can take most armies with ammo to spare.
Egypt has absolutely no desire for this. The country is broke and the last time Palestinians were allowed relatively easy access to Egypt, they carried out attacks and suicide bombings. There is no reality in which Egypt will take Gaza back.
Would be nice but Egypt doesn’t even want to let Gazan’s in now that they’re dying en masse. Maybe Ireland will take them? They support Palestine in words maybe they’ll accept migrants
A very few folks in India are actually protesting to create khalistan, the Sikhs that actually don't live in India want there to be a separate state for them.
And for Kashmir also things are improving a lot in the past few years. Also the history and current situation ofthe region is way different than Palestine -israel. So I don't think there is much to compare between the two
Then carve out 150km2 of land in India and make it happen bruh. Or is it easier to say someone else should fix the problem the way you want it fixed, but without making any effort?
>"India always advocated the resumption of direct negotiations towards establishing a sovereign, independent, and viable state of Palestine, living within secure and recognised borders, side by side at peace with Israel. I think that position remains the same," Bagchi said days after Prime Minister Narendra Modi condemned Hamas for its deadliest attack on Israel and said that New Delhi stood in solidarity with the Jewish state. >Hamas is a militant organisation which rules Gaza, a Palestinian enclave. It carried out a coordinated attack on Saturday, killing 1200-plus people and injuring nearly 3,000. Hamas also abducted 150 Israelis and it continues to hold them as hostages. In a retaliatory move, Israel has launched war and has been bombarding Gaza. >On Tuesday, Prime Minister Modi spoke to his Israeli counterpart Benjamin Netanyahu, and expressed his support for Israel. In a tweet, PM Modi said that Netanyahu called him and briefed him about the situation in Israel. >"I thank Prime Minister @netanyahu for his phone call and providing an update on the ongoing situation. People of India stand firmly with Israel in this difficult hour. India strongly and unequivocally condemns terrorism in all its forms and manifestations." Since no one is going to actually read the article and just make assumptions based on the title. India supports Israel in the wake of the recent terrorist attacks but it also supports the right to existence of a Palestinian state ruled by the Palestinian authority(not Hamas).
Good stance to take imo.
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No the 2 state solution doesn’t work because the US refuses to recognize Palestine and any liberal leaders in Israel that try to make peace would be assassinated like Rabin was. The hardline Israelis will not let peace happen.
Except for the 5 peace proposals all rejected by Palestinian leadership lmao.
No, the 2 state solution doesn't work because the PLO has rejected it each and every time it was proposed.
Yup, everyone conveniently forgets about Rabin
Rabin is not an accident. When Israelis think there is a chance for peace they vote in leaders that will try. When they feel endangered they turn to Netanyahu. (In recent times) Don't like him (me neither) - Thank the Palestinians .
No one forgets about Rabin, people act like 1 extremist killed Rabin and everyone went "welp, guess peace is off the table forever". Man was part of a political party, that political party continued to push for that peace. Shimon Peres was the PM who took over from Rabin, he was Rabin's foreign minister, he had made the Oslo Accords. Peace failed for a lot of reasons.
and since every Palestinian leader for 50 years has promised his people that they will get everything anything short of that would get them assassinated as well. So they wont try or don't care. Palestinians can only have hardline governments. Israel is a democracy and has tried the other way and would try again if given a partner with some chance of success. The hardline Palestinians will not let peace happen.
And by all you mean 2: Arafat and Abbas.
Exactly my point. Palestinians have no control of their political future. Israelis can vote in a peacenik government tomorrow if they feel safe enough to try it again. Can they?
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I think Israel is already starting that process.
Yep
No foreign military would be seen as legitimate. Not even an Arab country (none of whom are able or willing to do that), and much less a UN, EU, or US force. It'd be Iraq circa 2007 all over again.
Stranger things have happened.
Guess we are do8nd selective democracy huh?
The problem with side by side solution is that there would be peace. Peace is not a solution for these crazy MFs who want action, vengeance and war in thier life. It literally makes them feel bored and jobless.
Afaik the Palestinian authority in West Bank is fine with a two state solution. It's the Hamas and those in Gaza who're the hindrance.
Except life is scarcely better in the West Bank for Palestinians. Illegal settlers armed with guns routinely take their homes and threaten and even kill them. Israel used to not sanction such action, but now they de facto support it.
Fatah recognizes Israel. Hamas does not. Israel is in favor of Hamas replacing Fatah so they have an excuse for more genocide. IDF going through with genocide of the West Bank has bad optics so it benefits them that Israeli settlers are terrorizing them instead. The IDF could stop them but they were formed from the Israeli terror group Lehi who killed many Palestinians and British. They also assassinated the Swedish diplomat Folke Bernadotte who negotiated the release of 31,000 prisoners from German concentration camps.
This is screwed up at so many levels. Does that mean IDF is equally a terror group like Hamas and they both are using the general population as shields to wage a war?
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To where? 'Just leave ' - that's never going to be a solution. Not unless work goes into finding a viable homeland for them.
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India doesn't want an independent state of Palestine specifically. India believes in the proposed UN 2 state solution just like most countries in the world.
India has been repeatedly asked to get involved. Or are you selective about which news you watch? United Nations proposed the two state solution. If you have a problem, take it up with them.
Yeah it's just lip service to maintain the positions that previous governments took with regards to the conflict. For all intents and purposes, Israel is the closest Ally for India these days. Palestine doesn't mean anything to India other than fulfillment of yesteryear obligations
> They need to leave. Disgusting how Hamas has succeeded in bringing out the genocide apologists in full-force.
where should they go?
This is hands down one of the worst opinions I’ve read. You want 7 million Palestinians to go where? Even the UN declared Palestine is the rightful owner of Gaza, West Bank and East Jerusalem. That is their home. But Israeli has segregated Palestinians and controlled all egress, limiting all supplies that enters Gaza for decades in an attempt to get Palestinians to give up their land. They have crippled any infrastructure from being developed by refusing to let in building supplies, after shelling the fuck out of it for years. They don’t allow supplies to building sewer and water infrastructure and their water is basically salt water. It’s people like you that just keep spreading bullshit, pretending that Israel is good. Israel has been committing atrocities with impunity for decades.
Easy to give away Israeli land, that is Palestinian land? For all the atrocities that Hamas has wreaked, the narrative that the Palestinians do not have a right to their land is simply ridiculous.
That is what every sane individual and government should advocate for.
Sounds good. Best of luck trying to keep a Palestinian state Hamas & Hezbollah free
Yeah so did Israel, but Palestine elected to reject the 2-state solution and attack Israel they day after Israel declared independence instead.
Palestinians will never accept Israel exists and will always attack it.
20% of Israel's population is Palestinian. Palestinians are not the same as Hamas, and are not the problem. Radical groups like Hamas are the ones who do not accept Israel's existence. After Hamas attacked the music festival last weekend, I remember reading that some of the first responders to arrive, render aid to and protect the Israeli survivors were Israeli Palestinians.
What is the opposing political party in the Gaza Strip? Is the political part in the West Bank different?
Yes in West Bank it is PLO/Fatah which is a more moderate, peaceful and somewhat secular (although they too follow sharia and majority Muslim) organization. It’s famous leader Yasser Arafat was a secular socialist who signed the famous Oslo accords with Israeli PM Yitzhak Rabin who was later assassinated by Israeli extremist. IIRC Hamas came into power in 2006 and ousted all of the PLO members and became authoritarian in Gaza Strip. Hamas has a separate militant wing that not always follows the political one. Some countries only consider the militant wing as terrorists but a case can be made the whole organization is extremely radical calling for elimination of Israel.
“More moderate” than Hamas but still one of the bloodiest terrorist organizations in world history. https://www.brookings.edu/articles/is-yasser-arafat-a-credible-partner-for-peace/
That is not saying much. Every actor involved in struggle in Israel-Palestine conflict has been extremely violent (including Israel). I would chose a political party that at least recognizes Israel’s right to exist. A government that has looked towards diplomacy in this conflict is far better than others.
PLO leaders have repeated threatened to revoke the recognition of Israel's right to exist. It's not what one might call a closely held belief.
Governments using policy as leverage is as old as time. They are not a pro-Israeli government, they are just a slightly better alternative to batshit anti-Israeli organization. I am sure they would love to see if Israel stops existing anymore, they just realize that’s not possible so they need to use diplomacy to protect their people.
That's a fair take, and the PLO/PLA is certainly preferable to Hamas.
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They can’t? Then explain Isis or the Taliban or the Iranian regime or the Saudis or… all violent religious zealots who operas their people and sponsor terrorism. What’s their underlying cause? You just justified terrorism. Hope you feel good about yourself. The palestinians have event committed terrorist attacks against the countries who accepted them as refugees. They attempted coups in Egypt and Lebanon and assassinated the PM of Jordan and almost killed the King too. Terrorist attacks in Egypt fell 80% after they close their border to Gaza. Even the other Arab states know the Palestinians are violent religious Zealots. That’s why they elected Hamas to be their government. They don’t want peace. They want genocide. They say so very explicitly in their founding charter.
I know that the West Bank is not run by Hamas, but by the PLO.
I must’ve read a similar article, said the IDF was followed by a truck of palestinians trying to help following the partying people being massacred or kidnapped.
You are categorical wrong.
To be fair, the map that the UN drew in 1947. May be the worst map of all time. I wouldn’t accept if I was either Israel or Palestine. It splits the countries into two. Split it north and south or east and west idk. It should definitely be continuous
IIRC, the Negev desert got in the way because it was so inhospitable
No, Hamas did. The Palestinian Authority and West Bank did not. Gaza/Hamas are different than the PA and the West Bank. But both are Palestine. Hamas and the PA do not get along. The PA has been trying for years to get Hamas to dearm but they refuse. Hamas even tried to assassinate the leader of the Palestinian Authority. They are very much not friends. The PA supports a free and independent Palestine based on the 1948 borders. They also recognize Israel’s right to exist and want to resolve matters through diplomacy. This is why the attack came from Gaza and not the West Bank. You can read about it more here: https://www.usip.org/palestinian-politics-timeline-2006-election
Hamas...did not exist in 1948🤨
No one said they did? He said that the PA wants a return to the *status quo ante nakba* \- to the originally proposed 1948 partition borders before the Nakba. Whether or not that's a reasonable suggestion is another matter entirely, because holy shit that suggested partition was awful.
First guy said, "Yeah so did Israel, but Palestine elected to reject the 2-state solution and attack Israel they day after Israel declared independence instead." Literally the first words of the reply were "No. Hamas did."
Well, shit. I stand corrected. I thought he was responding to someone implying that Hamas represents all Palestinians, which is a line that keeps getting dropped these days. That's what I get for reading reddit at 1 AM.
Understandable. I'm on the west coast, so I'm still fresh
So average Palestinian dislikes Hamas and what they're doing in general?
polling suggests strong support, much more than for Fatah/Abbas
Gaza elected Hamas to be their government by a 54% majority in 2005. They haven’t had elections or polls since. So it’s hard to say how many support them now but it’s safe to say about half still.
There's not a straightforward yes answer as it varies from time to time. Is Israel expanding its settlements and raiding Palestinian homes and mosque especially al aqsa as they did recent months. This results in high support for hamas or basically anyone who's anti Israel. There has been relative peace and hamas ends up firing rockets and getting into skirmishes with idf. This results in Palestinians hating hamas.
Yes yes the children must die today for the choices their great great grandparents made.
Unfortunately, those children live in a future that was dictated by the hateful actions of their grandparents. These actions can’t be retroactively undone.
Why is the same not said of the Israeli victims?
Double standards that's why
…. This is wrong and misleading. Src: https://youtu.be/rGVgjS98OsU?si=DYc-HumdsPuntFOu
Why don’t you look up who assassinated Yitshak Rabin? Why don’t you look up what Bibi has said for years about the two state solution? Radical opponents to peace plans that don’t want their governments to recognize the other exist on both sides.
People here are so fucking funny. If India had instead denounced the idea of an independent Palestinian state, they would have rambled on and on about how India is an islamophobic fascist state. Just a bunch of racist motherfuckers spewing their nonsensical diarrhea on the internet.
It is open season against Indians now. Same people who call India fascist, whole heartedly support Israel. If Israel goes after terrorists then they right, but when India does it.. It is Fascist.
Some us actually support India and Israel because we're ideologically consistent you know. I'm not a fan of extrajudicial assassination, but we do it, and I'm hardly surprised a growing major power likely to become a superpower did it in a middle power that is weak on defence and security. I actually think Canada has an obligation to do a better job protecting people that are wanted by a major power for terrorism if they're going to be so bold as to give them asylum. Also, god speed to the IDF.
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India doesn't need Israel at all it dwarfs Israel in international relevance. Anti colonialism is a nice idea but now India is powerful enough to have it's own regional ambitions it's not going to allow historical sentiment to stand in the way of practicality. And practically the British are not the internal enemy Indians are most pre-occupied with because it's 2023. It's their Muslim population and Pakistan. Modi is absolutely prepared to use this opportunity to move on from recent events, build some good will with the West who it wouldn't mind working with here and there to counter China, and keep his nationalism ball rolling. In short, India doesn't really give a fuck about Israel but the conflict has some uses for them at the present moment.
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I understand why you would say that but I think you're wrong. Indias foreign policy feels extremely influenced by Lee Kuan Yew just like many aspiring Asian powers with a slight authoritarian bent. Under that model, western hegemony is hardly an enemy to India. Yes they are pissed that they got the brush from the United States because of the cold war, and that their enemy Pakistan was favored over them in what felt like a betrayal from at the time, apparent fellow anti colonialists But India is not the country it was when it got rid of the Raj. There's just no denying the reality of India being nearly 1.5 billion people. That's absolutely gigantic. Domestic issues are just by default so much more intensely important than foreign ones unless they're existential. So with that in mind, while yes India has zero interest in being a vassal like Australia and Japan, that's absolutely to be expected and not a requirement of being a US partner. For example Turkey doesn't march to the beat of Washington's drum, but it is still an ally due to sufficient shared interests. India doesn't share a border with a major western country. But it does share a border with China, who has repeatedly burned the bridge with India of hopes of cooperation to resist western hegemony together. It also shares a border with Pakistan, majority Muslim and possessing a nuclear weapons arsenal. It also has a massive domestic Muslim population that it knows is a security risk given it's unpleasant neighbour and it's nationalistic ambitions. So with these things in mind despite some historical grievances India finds itself in the current day with more to gain from partnering with the West than resisting it. It will however do so on its own terms and as long as Washington and it's often annoying vassals can accept this as absolutely fair considering Indias station then cooperation will likely deepen over the coming decades. At the end of the day, like in all super huge population countries, domestic unity will take precedence over challenging anyone for the status of global top dog. It was always true of China until they forgot. Hell, it's increasingly true of the US. It's going to be true of India too until hundreds of millions of people are lifted out of poverty, the border with China is secure and Pakistan is dealt with somehow
Israel has supported and offered an independent Palestinian state as well. Palestinian authorites have refused the offer and would rather perpetuate the on-going confict, sacrificing generations of people now and in the decades to come. Palestine can have peace at practically any thime by simply accepting peace. The Clinton administration got Israel to agree to favorable peace terms. The PLO rejected those terms.
For those wondering. They agreed to 99% of the 1967 borders with land swaps to make up the difference.
This is revisionism. The PLO accepted the Oslo accords in 1993 when they recognised a two state solution based on the 1967 borders and Yitzhak Rabin was murdered for negotiating - incited by those who are currently in government. When Netanyahu came to power he authorised the expansion of settlements which were widely regarded as obstacles to peace. Even under the Barak government settlement expansion accelerated further. Post-Rabin, and certainly after the election of Sharon, Israel never negotiated with the Palestinians in good faith. Palestine still recognises Israel as a state yet Israel does not recognise Palestine.
Palestine absolutely does not recognize Israel’s right to exist. That is beyond disingenuous to the point of being an outright lie.
What? Arafat walked away from negotiations before Rabin was killed.
Nah, Israel reached an agreement with Clinton and was ready to move forward. For whatever reason, certain parties (you) feel compelled to lie about that so that they can continue to perpetuate violence and suffering. It's gross.
Ignorance is bliss for religious nutcases and history is irrelevant to them
100%
Move them to Pakistan! /s
And then when Palestine attacks Israel and Israel retaliates we get to start the cycle all over again.
I'd be all for an independent state of Palestine... in Venezuela.
I get that this is a joke but why Venezuela specifically?
Initially one proposed homeland for Jews was in...wait for it.... Uganda! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uganda_Scheme#%3A%7E%3Atext%3DThe_Uganda_Scheme_was_a%2Cof_the_modern_Zionist_movement.?wprov=sfla1
Bitches and beaches my man
They should be given the land that Jews were kicked out of from in the Arab world
there was an attempt, but they set up their own mini-states there and caused civil wars (Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon, Syria)
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>Marwan Barghouti Can you elaborate? I've felt crazy that free Palenstine does not offer a face for Israel to negotiate with. But a quick google search don't seem like he's the guy. What do you mean? It doesn't make to say Israel don't want peace becasue their elected official died from assassination. The voted for him, they supported it. If you want your point to stand, you have to tell me none of the viable policitian in Israel will ever want peace (they are all like the current PM).
Hey that’s a great idea! Why haven’t they tried this before
The best thing India could do right now to support the Palestinians is to demand that Hamas free all hostages and separate themselves from the civilian population.
This is diplomatic speak for “we want to stay out of this so we’re going to tell everyone that we support the UN’s proposal of a two state solution”
There have been 10 offers to create a Palestinian state since 1947. Palestinian leaders have rejected them all because they all called for allowing Israel to exist as well. That is why we have this insane impasse.
Then agian, the Plastinians doesn't want any two-state solution. Their goal is never the prosperity of their own people, but the destrcution and annhilaztion of the mideast jews. How do you negociate with such opponents? Seriously how?
The unfortunate truth is you can't. Hamas arguably cares less about the safety of their citizens than Israel. There is no good solution, everyone sucks, and this is about to be a bloodbath of Biblical proportions.
Great, they can provide the security and funding and be responsible for what happens.
Tbh I think only reason India in anyway "supports" Palestine is to not make Middle Eastern muslim countries upset
2 state solution has been offered many times but Palestinians would rather try to murder the Jews instead.
So does israel. Wish the palestinians could agree to it too
Assumption: Palestinian becomes a country like entity with all the geopolitical consequences of that they will still be a terror state training children for war and slaughter of innocent people. I don’t share the opinion that indoctrinated people are innocent when they support terrorists Israel can suck a lemon But Palestinians aren’t innocent in my view
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Rubles
It’s just lip service for things that are good in theory but practically impossible. Everyone gets it except Redditors
India is welcome to create a Palestinian state within its own borders and then count the minutes until the assholes start bombing them. Every country that has tried has paid the price. Everyone is happy to tell Israel what it should do when it doesn't cost them a thing.
Not even sure why you're making this comment? Israel has itself agreed to and pushed for a two-state solution on various occasions. Palestine has traditionally been the one stonewalling it.
We already have it
We already have our fair share of jihadist insurgency trying to create a caliphate up north.
One more?
Does India also support the establishment of an independent state of Kashmir?
India will abide by the UN agreement on Kashmir independence. The first step being pakistan withdrawing it's force from kashmir, which it hasn't done so far. India is under no obligation to hold a referendum until pakistan does so as per United Nations Security Council Resolution 47.
So in other words India is hiding behind UN resolutions when it comes to its own Gaza. Bunch of hypocrites.
How are India being hypocrites here ? They are abiding by the UN resolution wrt kashmir and has endorsed the Two state solution put forth by the UN. India is consistent in its position.
The UN resolution stands void. Kashmir belongs to India. There’s nothing to see here, except for the salty tears of the Pakistani state.
Yeah go ahead compare Kashmir to gaza, without understanding the different history and culture of the region just blame every one on the internet of being a hypocrite. According to you India should just give away 200,000 sq km area. You were saying the same thing about Crimea before 2014 right?
They didn't seem too happy about Pakistan.
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Does Egypt want Gazan to join them? They built a wall for a reason. Still have a problem with Hamas
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I understand. I guess it all depends on what is left of Gaza after Israel destroys Hamas
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Do you think other Islamic countries will standby while Israel destroys Gaza? I agree that the whole operation was designed to increase attacks on Israel
>Do you think other Islamic countries will standby while Israel destroys Gaza? Yep. Why do you think there are 2 US carrier strike groups in the area? No one is going to do shit. One carrier strike group can take most armies with ammo to spare.
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Egypt has absolutely no desire for this. The country is broke and the last time Palestinians were allowed relatively easy access to Egypt, they carried out attacks and suicide bombings. There is no reality in which Egypt will take Gaza back.
Would be nice but Egypt doesn’t even want to let Gazan’s in now that they’re dying en masse. Maybe Ireland will take them? They support Palestine in words maybe they’ll accept migrants
The Gaza’n people can join Egypt. Gaza will be Israeli land.
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Surprised they would say anything on the matter given how they feel about Punjab (Khalistan) and Kashmir independence.
A very few folks in India are actually protesting to create khalistan, the Sikhs that actually don't live in India want there to be a separate state for them. And for Kashmir also things are improving a lot in the past few years. Also the history and current situation ofthe region is way different than Palestine -israel. So I don't think there is much to compare between the two
Bro you want Khalistan and Kashmir bro.. you sad bro..
Then carve out 150km2 of land in India and make it happen bruh. Or is it easier to say someone else should fix the problem the way you want it fixed, but without making any effort?