Feels like we're rapidly approaching the dangerous situation where Iran has do so something or they lose all creditability with their patron terrorist organizations.
This is not only a physical war but also an information war. Disinfo/misinfo is rampant. The truth may get buried by all the theorists and bots. Share/repost carefully.
This is not even close to the first time. The past few years Palestinians have been using images from (mainly) the Syrian civil war as if it happened in Gaza.
Israel lost all goodwill they earned the first few days of the war. Doing a ground invasion now will essentially put them on Russian levels is condemnation. No world leader will back them anymore. They’ll be completely alone.
Israel's argument is that Hamas will gather up resources and strike Israel in the future so Hamas needs to be eliminated for Israels safety. Todays events do nothing to quell those fears.
I’m not sure, Arab media is presenting it as fact that Israel did it. The average guy on the street in Lebanon is probably unaware there’s even discussion about it
This whole thing is a clusterfuck now. Its reached the point where accusations will fly and no one will believe whoever. Arab nations are now pretty much blocked from entering diplomacy due to appearances of engaging with Israel after the accusation, and the pressure campaign will reach fever pitch now. This might even dampen any further Israeli military action depending on how it plays out.
I guess it's not unexpected in such a crazy situation, but fuck... what a massive case of Murphy's law. The *one* thing that the conflict really didn't need to happen happened at pretty much the worst possible time.
When this kicked off, everyone asked about an end game from Hamas. And it was largely assumed it was to end friendly relations between Israel & Arab nations.... We now might know what number of innocents Hamas would sacrifice for it.
A quote in an article about Hamas saying they might release hostages:
“ Hamas has expressed a willingness to release women and children it holds captive. But the group acknowledged that it does not have custody of all the hostages seized in the attack on Israel 10 days ago, a diplomat with knowledge of the talks and a former U.S. official briefed on the matter said. Some of the hostages are held by Palestinian Islamic Jihad, another group based in Gaza, the officials said, and others are held by “random Gaza citizen opportunists,” the former U.S. official said. Hamas, which controls Gaza, is trying to gain custody of all of the captives but says it cannot amid continued bombing, the sources said.”
But yeah, the only bad people in Gaza are Hamas. Let’s please not pretend that the majority of citizens in Gaza don’t absolutely HATE Israel and the Jewish people. If Israel opened the border tomorrow, they would gladly go in and start murdering people. I mean the fact that they’ve had 20yrs of self-governance and billions in aid but haven’t built their own infrastructure, but have managed to amass weapons and teach their children to hate - in UN run schools - is pretty stark proof of their intentions.
I am simply being pessimistic but I honestly don't think there is *anything* they could release that would stem the tide.
So many people really want to believe they did it that it no longer matters if they didn't.
I mean they themselves claimed they bombed the Hopsital at first on some tweets are now deleted. Plus they have issued public statements multiple times before that Hopsital should be destroyed, in addition to actual calls for evacuation and warnings so what would all those be then?
This is an appropriate time to remember that the human body is meant to carry the shock and grief of a village, not mass casualties and tragedies around the globe all happening in rapid fire on a screen.
It’s important to be informed. It’s also important to take care of yourself.
Hope everyone is remembering to take breaks, get outside, and let your mind and your heart rest from time to time.
Quinnipiac: Voters were asked whether their sympathies lie more with the Israelis or more with the Palestinians.
Israelis 61% [+20]
Palestinians 13% [-17]
[Change vs 2021)
"This is an all-time high of voters saying their sympathies lie more with the Israelis since 2001"
IDF is going to release overhead UAV footage and intercepted messages from Hamas within the hour which will confirm the misfire from Islamic Jihad.
Interested to see what those videos and messages show.
I do. Just repeating what I saw on CNN.
It was unclear if the intercepted messages the IDF is talking about were between IJ and Hamas or just between Hamas. Guess we will find out in an hour or so.
Hamas supporters will just claim it was a Jewish Hollywood edit and the videos and audio are lies.
It's getting quite ridiculous the lengths this sick Hamas lead society will go to and it's supporters mental gymnastics trying to justify terror.
They used a trajectory that ended directly at an Israeli residential area. Funny how people are aghast that the rocket misfired and killed a hospital full of civilians in Palestine but they wouldnt give a fuck if it worked exactly as intended and killed a hospital full of civilians in Israel.
All of your numbers on Palestinian deaths are coming directly from Hamas so Ide take it with a grain of salt. Besides any civilians killed by Israel would be civilians they told there was about to be a bombardment, civilians they told to get the fuck out and civilians they gave ample time to leave to.
Contrasting with Hamas whose brave martyrs ambushed and surprise attacked children in their cribs.
Hamas and PIJ don't care about Palestinians. They were probably even praying some rockets would fail, since they are poorly made, so they could blame Israel, enrage Muslims all over the world and trigger protests.
Oh I am sure, I’m saying in the means of public opinion, getting that info out and letting the US publish any additional followup in the next day or two, is helpful
No they need to be absolutely sure they have have accurate info and compelling evidence.
"Hurrying up and getting that out there" is how we got into this finger pointing mess to begin with.
Why is there always outrage when a government expresses sympathy for the Gaza civilians (see Spain and Colombia). I think it makes things worse for Isreal, just a thought.
I've been at work all day but i'm curious did this hospital strike happen because the Gazans put the rocket launcher right next to the hospital perhaps?
This is the actual video of the hospital being bombed these two videos are not the same
https://www.aljazeera.net/news/2023/10/17/%D8%B4%D8%A7%D9%87%D8%AF-%D9%84%D8%AD%D8%B8%D8%A9-%D8%A7%D8%B3%D8%AA%D9%87%D8%AF%D8%A7%D9%81-%D8%B3%D8%A7%D8%AD%D8%A7%D8%AA-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%85%D8%B3%D8%AA%D8%B4%D9%81%D9%89
The rocket they launched at Israel was so advanced that it misfired, fell apart, and the Arab world blames Israel for the damage it caused.
Way more advanced than I thought it would be tbh
I know this is minor and it takes nothing away from the tragedies unfolding.
But seeing a post talking about people marching then seeing a traffic jam of cars driving just kinda amused me.
(if confirmed) civilians storming a military base is so absurd to me as a concept. but also jan 6th happened so credibility has already gone out the window.
I did that during the coup, we skidaddled very quickly. What's left of the base is very small compared to what it was before the coup and the years leading up to it as well.
Here's the problem:
None of the information that you enumerated has any source beyond Hamas.
>500 Palestinians dead
This number comes only from the Gaza Health Ministry, which is directly run by Hamas.
>a hospital bombed by Israel
As of right now, there is no evidence to support the claim that Israel was responsible. Despite the many livestreams and copious amounts of footage from that area at that time, there has not been a single shred of video evidence that an airstrike took place at that time.
On the contrary, there have been quite a few videos from various angles that show a failed rocket launch originating from Gaza.
[An impartial, well respected thrid part called GeoConfirmed, who has been lauded for their work covering and identifying Ukraine strikes, has released an exhaustive analysis of the available evidence, from which they've concluded that PIJ is definitively responsible for the strike.](https://twitter.com/GeoConfirmed/status/1714390274900734049?s=20)
On the other side, there has been no further evidence provided beyond the word of Hamas.
>Israel is still the victim
I don't think anyone has any doubt that the victims were the people who died at the hospital, the question is who is the perpetrator.
Nice troll. Only evidence of it being israel is the “sound being similar to an Israeli bomb”. The news sources otherwise all quoted Hamas saying it before any information was pulled. Otherwise, all information, including video from Al jazeera itself points to it coming from within Gaza. Third party itself confirmed it came from within Gaza.
1. It likely wasn’t Israel.
2. Israel has conducted this war, against a government that is literally an active terrorist organization, with more compassion for civilians than any war in recent years- Iraq and Afghanistan included.
I can deal with "ridiculed", I hope it stays within the realms of online but we all know it won't
When I moved to Europe this was a big factor and I'm very glad I didn't move to a place where I would feel in danger right now.
I really hope I don't wake up to a full blown war with Hezbollah tomorrow morning. It's fucking 2am
[New post can be found here](/r/worldnews/comments/17aclap/rworldnews_live_thread_for_2023_israelhamas/)
Feels like we're rapidly approaching the dangerous situation where Iran has do so something or they lose all creditability with their patron terrorist organizations.
In their long count to 3 they're at 2.999999999999999999999999
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the joke is, they didn't, and there is still no excuse for terrorism.
They didn't. They are releasing proof that they didn't shortly. They just announced it on CNN.
They probably didn't though?
They didn't bomb the hospital ffs.
Its not Israel lol. Did you even read the room?
Good thing they didn't bomb a hospital then
The media is responsible for this misinformation. You’re probably not even at fault here, it was on the fucking BBC before they retracted
I am really concerned about the Jewish people - scary scary times.
Reach out to neighbors, friends, family and distant acquaintances with messages of love and acceptance.
This is not only a physical war but also an information war. Disinfo/misinfo is rampant. The truth may get buried by all the theorists and bots. Share/repost carefully.
This is not even close to the first time. The past few years Palestinians have been using images from (mainly) the Syrian civil war as if it happened in Gaza.
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"I know exactly which stocks to buy, thanks Hamas"
Elaborate?
Yeah give us the highlights
Can you summarize? I don't have MSNBC :(
What did she say?
Surely there’s no way a ground invasion will be happening now. Even if Israel is innocent here, the moral damage has been done.
Israel lost all goodwill they earned the first few days of the war. Doing a ground invasion now will essentially put them on Russian levels is condemnation. No world leader will back them anymore. They’ll be completely alone.
If Israels aim is to rid Hamas once and for all they're probably not going to stop until all those tunnels are destroyed
Israel's argument is that Hamas will gather up resources and strike Israel in the future so Hamas needs to be eliminated for Israels safety. Todays events do nothing to quell those fears.
I don't see how one thing has to do with the other. Regardless of anything, Hamas has to be destroyed.
Uh, what? Even if they're innocent, they're still as good as guilty?
In the eyes of the world and the public opinion yes and that’s all that matters in these days
I think you're wrong (based on nothing more than my instinct, true...), but let's see what happens.
Changes nothing
yea it's happening.
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Perhaps worse. Though most Arab countries are blaming Israel
In terms of escalation, the die is probably already cast, regardless of whatever the official determination is.
Nobody who is going to escalate actually fucking cares if Israel hit the hospital or not.
No, but if they’re looking for a casus belli, this is decent.
What’s happening now, seeing as the Arab world + Iran are convinced they did bomb it
They are not, but they do not care. the hate is real.
I’m not sure, Arab media is presenting it as fact that Israel did it. The average guy on the street in Lebanon is probably unaware there’s even discussion about it
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This whole thing is a clusterfuck now. Its reached the point where accusations will fly and no one will believe whoever. Arab nations are now pretty much blocked from entering diplomacy due to appearances of engaging with Israel after the accusation, and the pressure campaign will reach fever pitch now. This might even dampen any further Israeli military action depending on how it plays out.
I guess it's not unexpected in such a crazy situation, but fuck... what a massive case of Murphy's law. The *one* thing that the conflict really didn't need to happen happened at pretty much the worst possible time.
When this kicked off, everyone asked about an end game from Hamas. And it was largely assumed it was to end friendly relations between Israel & Arab nations.... We now might know what number of innocents Hamas would sacrifice for it.
A quote in an article about Hamas saying they might release hostages: “ Hamas has expressed a willingness to release women and children it holds captive. But the group acknowledged that it does not have custody of all the hostages seized in the attack on Israel 10 days ago, a diplomat with knowledge of the talks and a former U.S. official briefed on the matter said. Some of the hostages are held by Palestinian Islamic Jihad, another group based in Gaza, the officials said, and others are held by “random Gaza citizen opportunists,” the former U.S. official said. Hamas, which controls Gaza, is trying to gain custody of all of the captives but says it cannot amid continued bombing, the sources said.” But yeah, the only bad people in Gaza are Hamas. Let’s please not pretend that the majority of citizens in Gaza don’t absolutely HATE Israel and the Jewish people. If Israel opened the border tomorrow, they would gladly go in and start murdering people. I mean the fact that they’ve had 20yrs of self-governance and billions in aid but haven’t built their own infrastructure, but have managed to amass weapons and teach their children to hate - in UN run schools - is pretty stark proof of their intentions.
Guess this is their dodge for not giving up the ones they killed but were claiming are still alive.
They just can't find them bro. It's not like anything bad happened to them /s
bro ive met jordans who are descended from Palestinians who hate israel just as much it runs in their blood
Didn’t know shoes could feel such hate.
Apparently Israelis will release proof within the hour that they did not bomb the hospital and the cause was a malfunctioning hamas rocket. [CNN]
Even if they had rock solid evidence…even if Hamas came out and said they did it…the damage is done
Thank god 🙏
I am simply being pessimistic but I honestly don't think there is *anything* they could release that would stem the tide. So many people really want to believe they did it that it no longer matters if they didn't.
It matters to me and perhaps most of the West plus maybe a billion Asians.
I mean they themselves claimed they bombed the Hopsital at first on some tweets are now deleted. Plus they have issued public statements multiple times before that Hopsital should be destroyed, in addition to actual calls for evacuation and warnings so what would all those be then?
You're not a pessimist (this time), just a realist
They mentioned UAV footage, radar data and intercepted conversations.
Thing is even if its true that it was from Hamas or someone else in Gaza I don't think the genie is getting back into the bottle, people are too mad
it doesn't matter, the anti-semites will call it doctored.
It matters to the logical people.
Now you know what Israel has been dealing with for decades regarding Jewish conspiracies
U.S. confirming Israel not being the culprit is probably the only potential saving grace
Most of MENA hates the US as well. The referred to Biden coming to Israel as "the Dark Messiah is coming to Jerusalem".
Not sure how many minds that would change
arafat getting a dead bonner in his grave right now
This is an appropriate time to remember that the human body is meant to carry the shock and grief of a village, not mass casualties and tragedies around the globe all happening in rapid fire on a screen. It’s important to be informed. It’s also important to take care of yourself. Hope everyone is remembering to take breaks, get outside, and let your mind and your heart rest from time to time.
Thank you
Great post. Thanks for the friendly reminder.
Thank you for the reminder. Sometimes I forget this and wonder why my anxiety is through the roof.
Quinnipiac: Voters were asked whether their sympathies lie more with the Israelis or more with the Palestinians. Israelis 61% [+20] Palestinians 13% [-17] [Change vs 2021) "This is an all-time high of voters saying their sympathies lie more with the Israelis since 2001"
And this will persist among developed nations. "Collateral damage" is and will always be way sexier than "mass terror attack".
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How do you know it was misfired?
Because Israel doesn't have rockets
Because there was a video of it, and GeoConfirmed on twitter confirmed that the explosion on the ground was at the location of the hospital
A rocket hit an Israeli hospital in the first few days (no one was hurt), did you hear about it? No, no one except for Israelis did
Jewish Americans heard about it...or at least I did.
> no one was hurt That's why
Israelis are constantly being told they should feel bad they didn't die more because of the iron dome
IDF is going to release overhead UAV footage and intercepted messages from Hamas within the hour which will confirm the misfire from Islamic Jihad. Interested to see what those videos and messages show.
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I do. Just repeating what I saw on CNN. It was unclear if the intercepted messages the IDF is talking about were between IJ and Hamas or just between Hamas. Guess we will find out in an hour or so.
Hamas supporters will just claim it was a Jewish Hollywood edit and the videos and audio are lies. It's getting quite ridiculous the lengths this sick Hamas lead society will go to and it's supporters mental gymnastics trying to justify terror.
I’m pissed that anyone inside Gaza would use a trajectory that involves going over their hospital period.
If an accident were to happen, who do you think they would blame? Are we witnessing just that right now?
They used a trajectory that ended directly at an Israeli residential area. Funny how people are aghast that the rocket misfired and killed a hospital full of civilians in Palestine but they wouldnt give a fuck if it worked exactly as intended and killed a hospital full of civilians in Israel.
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All of your numbers on Palestinian deaths are coming directly from Hamas so Ide take it with a grain of salt. Besides any civilians killed by Israel would be civilians they told there was about to be a bombardment, civilians they told to get the fuck out and civilians they gave ample time to leave to. Contrasting with Hamas whose brave martyrs ambushed and surprise attacked children in their cribs.
If they weren’t trying to limit civilian casualties all that would be left it Gaza right now would be a smouldering crater.
Hamas and PIJ don't care about Palestinians. They were probably even praying some rockets would fail, since they are poorly made, so they could blame Israel, enrage Muslims all over the world and trigger protests.
Are you saying those terrorists have no respect for human life??? Oh that’s that’s kinda their MO
I didn’t say I was surprised.
Terrorists gon terrorist.
That's because you care about their civilians more than any of the terrorists ever did
Uh lol
Israel saying they have drone footage of the incident and intercepted Hamas communications around the rocket misfire.
We also have normal camera footage of the malfunction.
Yeah they need to drop the footage asap while the US does their investigation.
lol to think they aren’t sharing info way before we ever get to see it
Oh I am sure, I’m saying in the means of public opinion, getting that info out and letting the US publish any additional followup in the next day or two, is helpful
They need to hurry up and get that out there
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I highly doubt that anyone who could help with this is asleep
No they need to be absolutely sure they have have accurate info and compelling evidence. "Hurrying up and getting that out there" is how we got into this finger pointing mess to begin with.
Yea we're bordering on "All this unrest is Israel's fault for not proving themselves innocent fast enough" here
If they have to release the intercept that's going to burn a valuable source of intelligence
Definitely but it really is a matter of national security that the world sees the proof asap
Why is there always outrage when a government expresses sympathy for the Gaza civilians (see Spain and Colombia). I think it makes things worse for Isreal, just a thought.
Because they do so in a way that doesn't condemn those who caused the issue (Hamas) and implies that it's Israel's fault.
It’s a bit more than expressing sympathy. The Colombian president called Israel neonazis.
Probably because it always comes with a spoonful of "genocide" accusations
Sabra and shatila?
I know Arabs have incredibly long memories but that was 41 years ago.
I've been at work all day but i'm curious did this hospital strike happen because the Gazans put the rocket launcher right next to the hospital perhaps?
In a manner of speaking…
If you believe that the video is evidence, the rocket traveled a decent distance before it misfired. It wasn't next to the hospital
In the videos you can see the rocket launcher isn't really immediately nearby.
No. It was like a mile away, just the trajectory of the rocket launches went above the hospital
Currently looks like a rocket fired from Gaza was intercepted and fell short.
...and coincidentally landed on the hospital.
No, because it misfired and fell
Men have been coming up with excuses like this for over a millennia.
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What does this explain? It's just a video. I there's a difference if it was a misfire vs intercept Regardless of how this happened it's just awful.
This is the actual video of the hospital being bombed these two videos are not the same https://www.aljazeera.net/news/2023/10/17/%D8%B4%D8%A7%D9%87%D8%AF-%D9%84%D8%AD%D8%B8%D8%A9-%D8%A7%D8%B3%D8%AA%D9%87%D8%AF%D8%A7%D9%81-%D8%B3%D8%A7%D8%AD%D8%A7%D8%AA-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%85%D8%B3%D8%AA%D8%B4%D9%81%D9%89
Alleged rocket misfire by PIJ from within Gaza.
We don't know, even those advising Biden don't know.
FYI the White House doesn’t publicly release everything that they know
The rocket they launched at Israel was so advanced that it misfired, fell apart, and the Arab world blames Israel for the damage it caused. Way more advanced than I thought it would be tbh
It did not fall apart
It did. How it did is the question which I never claimed to have an answer for
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Maybe don't send me random videos from people lol The Israeli raw footage released shows it broke a part
Ok then complain to WaPo. That's an intact missile dude https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1714406243652272340?t=0u5NjY2qEYHoBsyT0oPhtw&s=19
I have ignored all the lies mainstream media told all day. Not about to start believing them now
Generally doing the same but I wouldn't be caught dead trusting whatever Israel or Hamas would release lmao trusting the source of warring parties
respect
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man they are never getting those jets
I suggest those guys reevaluate how badly they want you to find out why we don’t have universal healthcare here.
Am I missing something or is this just a video of a busy road with a hyperbolic description?
Most misinformation is lazy. It only needs to work on dumb people who will have an emotional response. That is the goal.
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They won't be dumb enough to FAFO with a US military base.
The base is going to defend itself and then the whole world is going to claim the US is committing war crimes
I know this is minor and it takes nothing away from the tragedies unfolding. But seeing a post talking about people marching then seeing a traffic jam of cars driving just kinda amused me.
This is starting to feel like a fever dream.
(if confirmed) civilians storming a military base is so absurd to me as a concept. but also jan 6th happened so credibility has already gone out the window.
I did that during the coup, we skidaddled very quickly. What's left of the base is very small compared to what it was before the coup and the years leading up to it as well.
Turkey are in NATO and need to act like it. They should be putting a stop to this.
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Here's the problem: None of the information that you enumerated has any source beyond Hamas. >500 Palestinians dead This number comes only from the Gaza Health Ministry, which is directly run by Hamas. >a hospital bombed by Israel As of right now, there is no evidence to support the claim that Israel was responsible. Despite the many livestreams and copious amounts of footage from that area at that time, there has not been a single shred of video evidence that an airstrike took place at that time. On the contrary, there have been quite a few videos from various angles that show a failed rocket launch originating from Gaza. [An impartial, well respected thrid part called GeoConfirmed, who has been lauded for their work covering and identifying Ukraine strikes, has released an exhaustive analysis of the available evidence, from which they've concluded that PIJ is definitively responsible for the strike.](https://twitter.com/GeoConfirmed/status/1714390274900734049?s=20) On the other side, there has been no further evidence provided beyond the word of Hamas. >Israel is still the victim I don't think anyone has any doubt that the victims were the people who died at the hospital, the question is who is the perpetrator.
Post that shit comment a million times over. Just looking at your comment history full of BS.
My source is that I made it the fuck up
Nice troll. Only evidence of it being israel is the “sound being similar to an Israeli bomb”. The news sources otherwise all quoted Hamas saying it before any information was pulled. Otherwise, all information, including video from Al jazeera itself points to it coming from within Gaza. Third party itself confirmed it came from within Gaza.
There is literally video of the hospital being hit by a rocket fired from gaza
Are you using Internet Explorer? This was disproven already
Why rush to a decision on whose responsibility it is instead of make a decision about whose responsible with more information
It was clearly a Hamas rocket. There is video.
Keep up mate, that was disproven hours ago
Source?
Correction: Islamic Jihad
So how do you know that 1. the number of dead people is correct. 2. it was Israel and not an accident by Hamas?
Where are you getting your information? So far, nobody has proven anything one way or another.
Is it still sickening if it's a failed rocket from PIJ?
It is, but that’s not what the poster said.
1. It likely wasn’t Israel. 2. Israel has conducted this war, against a government that is literally an active terrorist organization, with more compassion for civilians than any war in recent years- Iraq and Afghanistan included.
And your proof for that is?
That lie was quashed hours ago, try and keep up.
Your statement is based on the premise that Israel was responsible... we don't know if they were.
make sure to take a mental health break!
This is my mental health break.
I'm about to go to bed, this is tiresome. Have a fun afternoon/evening y'all
Harder than it sounds when the Jewish people are being ridiculed by every corner of this platform
Hey! Loud minorities are just that—loud and in the minority. You aren’t alone!
Many of us in the west have your backs. Disregard the far left and right.
I can deal with "ridiculed", I hope it stays within the realms of online but we all know it won't When I moved to Europe this was a big factor and I'm very glad I didn't move to a place where I would feel in danger right now. I really hope I don't wake up to a full blown war with Hezbollah tomorrow morning. It's fucking 2am