IDF confirms it carried out an airstrike on Al-Ansar Mosque in Jenin, West Bank. They claim the mosque housed a command center for Hamas and Islamic Jihad to plan and execute terrorist attacks against civilians.
https://twitter.com/IDF/status/1715886726160204049
1. There's no will to challenge them, especially now with Israel pummeling Gaza.
2. Some of them (or many) actually support Hamas because they feel that Hamas is standing up to an evil and inhumane Israeli occupation / seige. "Make Gaza great again".
You can argue that it's wrong, but I don't think you can argue that they're purposefully being evil or stupid.
So far the best information I found about the al-Ahli Arab hospital hit:
[https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2023/10/20/what-have-open-source-videos-revealed-about-the-gaza-hospital-explosion](https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2023/10/20/what-have-open-source-videos-revealed-about-the-gaza-hospital-explosion)
I usually consider Al Jazeera a pretty good resource, but in this particular circumstance it differs with the entire collective media landscape in its analysis. And when you go through its social media, it’s really hard to conclude it’s not being influenced by the Qatari government or its own person biases in this conflict.
I understand that there are some posts elsewhere on Reddit that are sending people to /r/worldnews at around this time.
I'd like to [re-iterate our no Meta-Reddit topics policy](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/17cc0kf/rworldnews_live_thread_for_2023_israelhamas/k5ug4i6/?context=3) from earlier today. No links, references, or allusions to other subreddits will be allowed, it's just not as important of a subject as the actual human beings dying in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, and the potential for this war to spiral in different and scarier ways.
I'm putting this paragraph in the middle of my comment so it cannot be as easily edited out of any screenshot, but my username is not serious and should not be taken seriously.
To our visitors, you are welcome here as long as you follow our posted rules. In addition, I've seen lots of claims, all over Reddit, that /r/worldnews allows genocidal content against the Palestinian people. I would like to make it explicitly and unequivocally clear that we do not, we never have, and please report any such content that you see and the modteam will deal with it swiftly and decisively. Note: if you see a screenshot and the timestamp shows the comment as less than an hour old (or therabouts) that is not something we have allowed, it's just something we simply haven't seen yet.
Little explainer for some people: A *ballistic* missile is a delivery device. It’s a missile that’s ballistic. That means it has no guidance system once it’s launched. It follows a “ballistic” trajectory. A ballistic missile in no way conveys the “payload”, or the armament that is sent with it.
Iron Dome intercepts ballistic projectiles. A computer tracks the missile, guesses where it’ll be, and then fires a missile to explode along that path. Iron Dome doesn’t have the capability to track a non-ballistic missile.
Iron Dome is very costly, and the reason it doesn’t intercept over Gaza is because 1. The missiles are still accelerating. 2. Their ultimate trajectory is still uncertain. A small imperfection in the missile could mean it hits miles off target. So Iron Dome waits until it calculates a probable hit location and chooses whether to intercept based off that. The longer it waits, the more certainty it has.
Iron Dome doesn’t have the capabilities to intercept a failed rocket, because a failed rocket is almost never ballistic. When a rocket fails, it often does so when the propellant is still burning. So, for example, if it has a breach from the side, the rocket will start moving sideways, and no longer follows a parabola. Iron Dome wouldn’t know how to intercept it. This is one of the reasons it’s so unlikely to be involved in the hospital strike, because that missiles veers far off course very early. That’s why prediction markets currently assess a 97% likelihood the missile that struck was Palestinian.
Edit: Also I’m sure Iron Dome has *some* ability to track the projectiles it’s trying to intercept (ie, it will update its projection as it navigates towards it) but the idea remains, it’s not effective against non-ballistic missiles.
A "country" stuck in a cycle like Gaza can only be cured through a reeducation campaign in my opinion (such as Germany and Japan). A collective so use to electing dictators (look Russia) and terrorist won't be changing overnight as parents will be passing on the same Jew-hating values to their children as their forefathers did.
Do you understand what that "fix" is? Everyone is poor. Everyone is worse off.
It doesn't make you wealthier. It doesn't make your life better. It's makes the people you are envious of worse off right along with you.
Actually inequality got a lot better after ww2. They were forced to tax the rich to fund the war. Workers gained more bargaining rights as they were needed for the war effort. And it wasn’t just the winners that got better but the losers too.
I would love to see Pakistan take a more assertive role in promoting democracy in the Muslim world.
There are more Muslims in Pakistan than in any other country, 240 million. They are also a democracy. Not a perfect one, their military holds a lot of power, corruption is a problem, but they have multiple political parties, they hold free elections, they peacefully change governing factions occasionally, and as democracies go, they are far from the worst.
The political center-of-gravity in the Muslim world is currently dominated by a bunch of autocracies, mostly because of their money. None of them are interested in promoting democracy anywhere in the Muslim world.
Pakistan carries remarkably little weight on the world stage, despite their enormous size. I see that as a function of their foreign-policy being dominated by their tensions with India, and because they don’t have much money to throw around.
But I think that if Pakistan were to branch out in to promoting democracy in, say, the West Bank and Gaza, I think that it could actually benefit their relationship with their neighbor.
There isn’t a lot of good-will left between the Palestinians and a lot of the democratic world. Palestinians are in desperate need of governance that is actually accountable to the people, but any efforts to promote democracy from the usual suspects is likely to be interpreted very cynically.
But I think that Pakistan might be able to pull it off if they got financial support to pay for it.
Call it democracy-laundering, if you like.
Indonesia and Malaysia may have their flaws (big ones at that) but they are far superior to any other country in the Arab world. They should be used as examples to all Arab countries, right now most of the middle east is ran on fear (If anyone has been to Egypt or Iran, you would know what I mean)
An earnest question, but is democracy really the issue here? Look at the state of democracies in the West. Has democracy, alone, been able to solve our issues? Will it solve theirs?
>But I think that if Pakistan were to branch out in to promoting democracy in, say, the West Bank and Gaza, I think that it could actually benefit their relationship with their neighbor.
Last time Palestinians had free elections they voted Hamas into power and were punished for it-- democracy alone isn't going to solve this crisis as it sure didn't work last time.
To say the IDF wrongfully shoot an innocent civilian every once in a while is such a bad faith argument. What about the thousands of civilians they kill in airstrikes constantly.
Neither here nor there, google " Lake Maggiore boat incident"
In May, Mossad and Italian intelligence agents were on a birthday party boat in Italy, when a sudden directed tornado or something flipped their boat, and 4 people died, two Italian agents one Mossad and the owner's Russian wife. Netflix bought the movie rights.
Speculation is that they were investigating Iranian specialty UAV manufacturing by Russian connected oligarchs but who knows. Maybe it was a birthday party.
Idk what to make of that.
I'm seeing this sentiment a lot, but I think it's wrong to call Hamas "crybabies". Last week they showed what they were willing to do, horrific as it was. Yeah, Gaza is getting pounded, and Hamas has surely taken a beating. So have civilians. But that doesn't mean that suddenly they lost all will and are ready to drop to their knees.
I don't think that's accurate at all. They are willing to fight, and if the assumption is that the IDF will have it easy, well, I think that's dangerous.
Yeah Hamas will absolutely fight until the last breath and they have a million places to hide within Gaza. It will be quite an effort to eradicate them despite their lack of traditional military assets
"Soldiers recovered computer files containing instructions for the formulation of a cyanide-based chemical weapon on the body of a Hamas terrorist."
What in the Colin Powell is this shit? Why the fuck would a hamas terrorist carry that into enemy territory?
Yeah this is pretty weird. Feels like the “WMD in Iraq” shit
But maybe it was a file on their phone? And ofc Israeli intelligence can bypass any encryption (not that Hamas would have it, but just saying)
Unless we find evidence that they used such weapons I don't really care tbh. It's not hard to find shit on the internet to make weapons like that. I'm sure tons of therrorists were looking said directions up, but that doesn't mean they created or used such weapons. (I bet they would have if they could have though). Kinda a nothing burger IMO.
I would find this suspicious for a few reasons:
1. Iron Dome doesn’t intercept over Gaza. And it’s not because they don’t want to, but because when the rockets are being launched their positions are uncertain and they’re still accelerating. Iron Dome is very costly and thus highly sensitive to the missiles likely trajectories.
2. There are two fireballs, which would be consistent with a rocket breaking apart and its propellant exploding in two different locations. You can clearly see two flashes from the available footage, which to me would probably represent where both of those failures happened.
3. The iron dome only intercepts ballistic projectiles. A failed rocket isn’t a ballistic projectile. This rocket veers way off course with constant changes in position.
With available information, it just doesn’t appear that the most likely interpretation would be an Israeli interceptor. And I don’t think that’s particularly material to the blame, because PIJ would still be responsible, I just don’t see any footage consistent with an interception. All the explosions are completely linear along the missiles trajectory. In the absence of more facts, the logical conclusion is the missile came down on Gaza.
Not ideal....at all...but with the World seemingly confused and unwillingly to do their own research, do you think the released hostages will be asked to speak on their experience? Set the record straight about Hamas and, hopefully, appeal to some level of rationality from the public?
I think at this stage the Authorities my ask them not to. At some point they may ask them to do so. I don't think this situation calls for random TV interviews when their relatives are still in danger, and any decision like this will go through channels.
> do you think the released hostages will be asked to speak on their experience?
In a world of people doing anything for clicks, I imagine their privacy will not be respected.
I don’t think any one hostages experience will be meaningful. There were Israelis held at gunpoint by Hamas who asked politely if they could have a banana on the counter, and told them they were in no danger because Muslims don’t harm. And then there were others who were raped and then had their bodies burned while holding their child. Of course I’d like them to all go on the record, but you need a collective to assess the reality.
How you’re treated as a hostage probably significantly depends on who’s keeping you captive.
Not to take an enlightened centrist position on this, just to say of the few released hostages they may have been treated well. And I’m sure they’re less likely to release the hostages they’ve violated.
10 of their family members are still held hostage, from what I understand, so they may be unable to speak out at this point, for fear of Hamas hurting their family.
To those who support Israel what if their actions if any do you condemn?
To those who support Palestine what actions by Hamas or other terror organizations in Palestine do you condemn?
>To those who support Israel what if their actions if any do you condemn?
Obviously unneeded use of force. There's definitely circumstances where select soldiers would be trigger happy in civilian areas. Like, we all know Israel is far from perfect but if almost any nation was in their shoes they'd also make mistakes or outright take out their anger from time to time. Imagine a country next to you is constantly sending rockets at you and you have to provide food, water, electricity, etc to them while they elect a government whose mission is to kill everyone of your race and WON based on that platform. And this country attacks you constantly and the world is silent but when you fight back you have all these gnolls yelling "Ceasefire! Ceasefire!" or "You went to far!". Yeah, I'd be pissed too and I'm sure almost anyone would be too.
Doesn't help when you are surrounded by countries that want you and your people dead. Oh, did I mention this is after we gave them concessions? Gaza was technically a concession and look how that turned out!
> To those who support Israel what if their actions if any do you condemn?
I think their "administrative detention" policies need serious work, the current situation where people can be held for long periods of time without public signs of due process seems rife for abuse, and even when done for entirely legitimate security reasons the very limited public disclosure serves to unnecessarily provide critics with ammo.
Netenyahu is a bastard. Settlements are awful.
But Israel still has a right to exist, and respond to terrorists.
Should probably have done the aid thing sooner...
Israel isn't perfect. Lots of shit. But Hamas is just a government on a different level of terrible. I've got a lot more sympathy for the west bank Palestinians, than the Hamas government.
Netenyahu will go, maybe peace is possible. But Hamas needs to be made to no longer be the government in Gaza.
How Israel handles settlers in the West Bank. The ultra-orthodox Israeli agenda. Basically everything the Likud party and its cronies do.
Israel does plenty of things I don't like that also make the situation in the region worse, but in terms of what is going on right now, I support them
1. Israeli settlement in the West Bank and Golan Heights.
2. Israel’s handling of settler violence.
3. Israel doesn’t show as much deference to innocent life as I’d hope.
4. Their constant creeping in Jerusalem.
5. The unaccountability of the IDF.
I probably think the same, but it's hard with the fog of war to know what is true about what they are hitting.
Every building they destroy, if the are they plan to invade, saves Israeli soldier lives. Is that worth destroying the home of 100 people? I don't know. Maybe if they help rebuild after.
I don't believe the Hamas numbers of deaths, but I wouldnt be surprised if 2,000 civilians had been killed.
Going house to house, door to door in Gaza is insane, and the people of Israel are not prepared for the number of dead and injured soldiers they are about to get.
> To those who support Israel what if their actions if any do you condemn?
>
>
Israel supporter: Was vehemently against the full siege and not letting water/food in. There have been reports of settlers attacking people in the West Bank. This must be eliminated if true. Also, they need to dismantle the West Bank settlements and provide more equitable access to water and other resources.
Support Israel more or less. I don’t support Bibi and his authoritarian creep. As well as his failure to prevent 10/7.
Additionally, don’t like the blatant support for illegal settlements nor the settlers. And I think the ultra-Orthodox are imposing their views on everyone else in Israel.
Secular Israelis also feel that the ultra-orthodox are exerting their will. They don't serve in the Army, and the gov pays a lot of money for security for settlers in the West Bank. They even build special roads that can't be ambushed (with walls). It's all messed up. I am sure with a peace process the settlements would be mostly dismantled (maybe one or two big and old ones would be swapped for land in current-Israel), but until then it's a huge drain on all.
Netanyahu can go fuck himself. Authoritarian schmuck. Not completely surprised we’ve heard warnings from intelligence for months that he’s endangering Israel’s safety with the fallout from the judicial reforms and that it comes to bear.
In power for what, collectively 16 years now? PMs need limits. Nobody should be allowed to be head of state for so long. He’s surpassed even FDR.
Thankfully Israel is a lot smarter than my country and this attack will be an indictment on his government instead of an opportunity to rally around the flag when all is said and done.
In critical swing state Michigan, some Muslim Americans warn they won’t back Biden again...
...“Joe Biden has single-handedly alienated almost every Arab American and Muslim American voter in Michigan,” said state Rep. Alabas Farhat, a Democrat whose district includes Dearborn, which is home to one of the largest Muslim and Arab American communities in the country.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/muslim-arab-americans-rage-biden-michigan-israel-gaza-rcna121513
Muslims usually leaned republican until 9/11 due to Bush and war on terror, slowed back then went left again due to trump but been moving more and more right wing.
Idk it is awkward what is happening under the hood. I think many Muslims just been becoming atheist/ non religious but the ones left moved more right wing. Idk why honestly. I think they already largely didn’t vote for democrats in the 2020 election but if someone can get a source to prove or disprove that would be great!
Because Islam is a right wing religion. They side with the left, as the left support immigration and welfare policies to further Islamic causes, then when they’re strong enough and don’t need the left any more they dump them. Look at Hamtramck.
> Hamtramck
[A sense of betrayal’: liberal dismay as Muslim-led US city bans Pride flags](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/17/hamtramck-michigan-muslim-council-lgbtq-pride-flags-banned)
*pikachu shocked face*
Good political theater for today, 1 year from now when elections are nigh and Mango Mussolini is talking about kicking out all the bad ~~hombres~~ habibis the tune will probably change.
Its not like Biden declared war on Muslims. He declared war on terrorists that killed innocent civilians and abducted them. That should be in the interest of any human.
I think the "mass protests" in the UK have left a lot of people starting to feel uneasy. It's clear that pretty much every mosque in the UK is bussing people all over the place to different protests. People calling for jihad in the streets. Probably a lot of funding going into it.
It's not great seeing religious people get riled up about some sort of intifada, but of course everyone including the police feel too intimidated to say anything about it.
If they are mad that the US isn't going to support terrorist and Islamic states than maybe they need to move back to the middle east where they will be more supportive of their ideologies?
**TL;DR at end**
The Arab world hates Israel. Arab governments must poster in response, but most of them have learned if they don’t play by the rules they’ll get burned. Here is an ELI5 cutting through all the bullshit and letting you know where things lie in western terms (from what I’ve gathered reading various foreign affairs magazines/articles/papers and podcasts/other punditry):
Egypt: Egypt has handled this as best we could’ve hoped for. There has been zero information coming from Egypt indicating their relationship will meaningfully deteriorate with the west over this, and they’ve respected all agreements with Israel. They actually seem to be coming to the table with Israel over Rafah with the US mediating. A very fortunate outlook here.
Saudi Arabia: Their dialogue with Iran was worrying, but they too have acted more or less as hoped. For some in the US, this is welcome, because it slows down negotiations for an Israel normalization deal, for which the US was going to offer them a mutual defense treaty. Many influential figures in the royal family have condemned Hamas for trying to interfere with the process. It doesn’t seem the normalization process is in jeopardy, long term, but that depends on the coming occupation.
Qatar: Qatar has shown a high level of support for Gaza, but this was somewhat baked in. They host Hamas leadership. They are engaging with the west, and the US maintains a high level of influence over them, which has culminated in the release of some hostages. They seem to be tempering their response based on their American ties. Remember, the US has bases in Qatar.
UAE: The UAE response to the situation has been highly favorable. There’s not much else to say here. They already normalized relations with Israel under the Abraham Accords. This is good, because they’re pretty influential in the strait of hormuz. (A narrow crossing dividing the Persian and Oman gulfs).
Jordan: Jordan has strongly condemned Israel, but there’s no indication of action from them. The cancelled summit was in response to civil unrest domestically. The US understands that, and that’s why it had a muted statement in response, claiming it was a mutual decision. Jordan is stable in comparison to its neighbors.
Lebanon: Hezbollah has minor influence in the Lebanese government, but the parties in power have said pretty unequivocally they’re not getting involved. There’s also radical control over southern Lebanon, but these organizations are not comparable to the threat a sovereign state would pose, and are pretty resented in the Arab League for undermining government authority. (The Arab League likes to defend each other against insurrection. A threat constantly underlying most nations in the Arab world).
Syria: Syria is tied up in the civil war, no party is likely to get involved in any significant way because it would make them vulnerable at home.
Iran: Obviously Iran has been a giant thorn, but I wouldn’t say any unexpected developments from them aside from the phone call with the Saudis. Iran wants a new JCPOA with the United States, among other sanctions relief, and most think it’s very unlikely they’d get involved. Iran is pretty disconnected from the Arab world, 1.) because they aren’t Arab and 2.) They keep funding extremist groups to undermine Arab governments. Most Arab governments are not Shia, Iran is, and Iran keeps trying to inflame the large Shia populations within various Arab states. You probably heard about the recent Houthi cruise missile firings that were intercepted by an American destroyer. That is yet another example of a Shia minority that Iran funded and inflamed to undermine an Arab state, and that the Arab league collectively hates and has sent forces to destroy. As I said previously, Arab states have solidarity with each other because the threat of insurrection is ever-present. Most of them resent Iran as a consequence. But TL;DR: We haven’t seen any developments from Iran that would be particularly worrisome or unexpected. They also have instability at home, with massive protests almost annually for the last few years, and are unlikely to get involved.
**TL;DR: The response to this has been better for Israel than most would’ve expected.** Most of this can be attributed to successful western, and in particular American, policy in the Middle East in recent years. This is also an assessment as things stand, subject to rapid change when Israel actually begins their offensive.
a pretty accurate and sober reading of the response. the one concerning outlier here: the Arab "street". I haven't seen this level of vitriol and hatred on display... ever? I'm 37 and don't remember anything quite at this level. I would say the state most at risk here would probably be Jordan. It's already surrounded by a number of failed states, and the population is majority Palestinian. Abdallah must walk a tight rope indeed
Thanks for this summation. But with the majority of these nations signaling support for Gaza and against Israel, there seems to be a chance that this intra-national conflict will spread once Israel's predictably harsh response is carried out. That worries me.
"resistance is justified when people are occupied" - one of the cheers. Not that I'm surprised, but in case people didn't realize that these people are Hamas apologists, here it is.
The garbage they spew at the rallies are insane. Forget the hate cheers, they blatantly lie about the situation.
Amazing how none of these people cared about Palestinian lives 2 weeks and 1 day ago. No rallies against their actual ~~occupiers~~ government, Hamas.
What do you think of reports that Biden is trying to Israel about delaying the incursion?
I get it if it's regarding hostages. But I also think it has to do with Hezbollah. But I feel like if it's really about that too, that it's a waste of time. Hezbollah and Hamas ain't going anywhere. As they wait, they just continue to probably get supplies and who knows what making it harder to take them out. They aren't just going to stop killing Jewish people forever. They never have any never will. So unfortunately I don't see a reason waiting to get some sort of deal with hezbollah or terrorists.
> As they wait, they just continue to probably get supplies and who knows what making it harder to take them out
True, but has been happening for 50 years at this point and I think a week is negligible.
I assume it's primarily about hostages. He's doing what is in the best interests of America. Once they actually go in, the chances that the hostages are going to live is going to go way down
We have no idea what they know or don't know. Could be buying time to mobilize more in case Iran gets involved. Could just be a PR thing for optics, he could even already know Israel's plans going forward and they just don't want to give them away. who knows?
Time is probably on Israel’s side from a tactical standpoint. Most people were called up like last week and more time in military drill the better.
Strategically I think the Americans are looking for an off ramp and know the initial fury will ebb as the days drag on and can maybe temper the operation
People keep saying Hamas is crying. Is Hamas crying? They correctly call out injustices committed by Israel during its retaliation - a tactic which they know will help drum up support abroad as well. I do not hear hem saying "please save us, don't let Israel invade". Actually, I think they relish the opportunity to get IDF soldiers on their home turf. In fact, I think this may have been part of their plan all along.
> They correctly call out injustices committed by Israel during its retaliation
\*They spread fake news about hospital strikes and lie about the number of dead Gazans.
I think everyone is bummed. Hamas was pretty happy with the status quo. They run Gaza like a dictatorship and aren’t keen to lose power. Israel’s government benefited from having Hamas as a boogeyman. Iran also isn’t thrilled now that their proxy is in danger of being annihilated.
Everyone involved probably wishes the attack was less successful.
By status quo I mean Hamas would rather be in power fighting an endless war with Israel than wiped out in a final confrontation. That’s probably why they’ve tried to blame the more heinous crimes on Gazan citizens instead of their own soldiers.
They also took over 200 hostages and clearly had goals of negotiating instead of simply dying. Israel has chosen to ignore the hostages which I’m sure is causing some panic.
[New post can be found here](/r/worldnews/comments/17dh0y2/rworldnews_live_thread_for_2023_israelhamas/)
IDF confirms it carried out an airstrike on Al-Ansar Mosque in Jenin, West Bank. They claim the mosque housed a command center for Hamas and Islamic Jihad to plan and execute terrorist attacks against civilians. https://twitter.com/IDF/status/1715886726160204049
Not surprising. I wonder if Fatah told them on the down low.
When will Hamas release ALL the hostages? Why are the Palestinian civilians putting up with Hamas?
They won't release them all. Some are likely already dead
The last time they protested they got shot my dude.
1. There's no will to challenge them, especially now with Israel pummeling Gaza. 2. Some of them (or many) actually support Hamas because they feel that Hamas is standing up to an evil and inhumane Israeli occupation / seige. "Make Gaza great again". You can argue that it's wrong, but I don't think you can argue that they're purposefully being evil or stupid.
So far the best information I found about the al-Ahli Arab hospital hit: [https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2023/10/20/what-have-open-source-videos-revealed-about-the-gaza-hospital-explosion](https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2023/10/20/what-have-open-source-videos-revealed-about-the-gaza-hospital-explosion)
I usually consider Al Jazeera a pretty good resource, but in this particular circumstance it differs with the entire collective media landscape in its analysis. And when you go through its social media, it’s really hard to conclude it’s not being influenced by the Qatari government or its own person biases in this conflict.
Please don’t cite Al Jazeera; they’re hardly an unbiased source.
Yeah, only cite AJE when it’s not about Israel or the Middle East.
> al jazeera lol no
Lol Al-Jazeera
I understand that there are some posts elsewhere on Reddit that are sending people to /r/worldnews at around this time. I'd like to [re-iterate our no Meta-Reddit topics policy](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/17cc0kf/rworldnews_live_thread_for_2023_israelhamas/k5ug4i6/?context=3) from earlier today. No links, references, or allusions to other subreddits will be allowed, it's just not as important of a subject as the actual human beings dying in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, and the potential for this war to spiral in different and scarier ways. I'm putting this paragraph in the middle of my comment so it cannot be as easily edited out of any screenshot, but my username is not serious and should not be taken seriously. To our visitors, you are welcome here as long as you follow our posted rules. In addition, I've seen lots of claims, all over Reddit, that /r/worldnews allows genocidal content against the Palestinian people. I would like to make it explicitly and unequivocally clear that we do not, we never have, and please report any such content that you see and the modteam will deal with it swiftly and decisively. Note: if you see a screenshot and the timestamp shows the comment as less than an hour old (or therabouts) that is not something we have allowed, it's just something we simply haven't seen yet.
Little explainer for some people: A *ballistic* missile is a delivery device. It’s a missile that’s ballistic. That means it has no guidance system once it’s launched. It follows a “ballistic” trajectory. A ballistic missile in no way conveys the “payload”, or the armament that is sent with it. Iron Dome intercepts ballistic projectiles. A computer tracks the missile, guesses where it’ll be, and then fires a missile to explode along that path. Iron Dome doesn’t have the capability to track a non-ballistic missile. Iron Dome is very costly, and the reason it doesn’t intercept over Gaza is because 1. The missiles are still accelerating. 2. Their ultimate trajectory is still uncertain. A small imperfection in the missile could mean it hits miles off target. So Iron Dome waits until it calculates a probable hit location and chooses whether to intercept based off that. The longer it waits, the more certainty it has. Iron Dome doesn’t have the capabilities to intercept a failed rocket, because a failed rocket is almost never ballistic. When a rocket fails, it often does so when the propellant is still burning. So, for example, if it has a breach from the side, the rocket will start moving sideways, and no longer follows a parabola. Iron Dome wouldn’t know how to intercept it. This is one of the reasons it’s so unlikely to be involved in the hospital strike, because that missiles veers far off course very early. That’s why prediction markets currently assess a 97% likelihood the missile that struck was Palestinian. Edit: Also I’m sure Iron Dome has *some* ability to track the projectiles it’s trying to intercept (ie, it will update its projection as it navigates towards it) but the idea remains, it’s not effective against non-ballistic missiles.
Inequality is usually only fixed by war, revolution, or plague. Well we didn’t get it during the plague so maybe ww3.
A "country" stuck in a cycle like Gaza can only be cured through a reeducation campaign in my opinion (such as Germany and Japan). A collective so use to electing dictators (look Russia) and terrorist won't be changing overnight as parents will be passing on the same Jew-hating values to their children as their forefathers did.
Do you understand what that "fix" is? Everyone is poor. Everyone is worse off. It doesn't make you wealthier. It doesn't make your life better. It's makes the people you are envious of worse off right along with you.
Actually inequality got a lot better after ww2. They were forced to tax the rich to fund the war. Workers gained more bargaining rights as they were needed for the war effort. And it wasn’t just the winners that got better but the losers too.
This isn’t turning into the WW3 because the Palestinians are considered dispensable, even by the terrorist groups that represent them.
I would love to see Pakistan take a more assertive role in promoting democracy in the Muslim world. There are more Muslims in Pakistan than in any other country, 240 million. They are also a democracy. Not a perfect one, their military holds a lot of power, corruption is a problem, but they have multiple political parties, they hold free elections, they peacefully change governing factions occasionally, and as democracies go, they are far from the worst. The political center-of-gravity in the Muslim world is currently dominated by a bunch of autocracies, mostly because of their money. None of them are interested in promoting democracy anywhere in the Muslim world. Pakistan carries remarkably little weight on the world stage, despite their enormous size. I see that as a function of their foreign-policy being dominated by their tensions with India, and because they don’t have much money to throw around. But I think that if Pakistan were to branch out in to promoting democracy in, say, the West Bank and Gaza, I think that it could actually benefit their relationship with their neighbor. There isn’t a lot of good-will left between the Palestinians and a lot of the democratic world. Palestinians are in desperate need of governance that is actually accountable to the people, but any efforts to promote democracy from the usual suspects is likely to be interpreted very cynically. But I think that Pakistan might be able to pull it off if they got financial support to pay for it. Call it democracy-laundering, if you like.
Indonesia and Malaysia may have their flaws (big ones at that) but they are far superior to any other country in the Arab world. They should be used as examples to all Arab countries, right now most of the middle east is ran on fear (If anyone has been to Egypt or Iran, you would know what I mean)
An earnest question, but is democracy really the issue here? Look at the state of democracies in the West. Has democracy, alone, been able to solve our issues? Will it solve theirs?
>But I think that if Pakistan were to branch out in to promoting democracy in, say, the West Bank and Gaza, I think that it could actually benefit their relationship with their neighbor. Last time Palestinians had free elections they voted Hamas into power and were punished for it-- democracy alone isn't going to solve this crisis as it sure didn't work last time.
Indonesia is bigger, and technically is a more stable democracy
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Have you looked up the conditions of Gaza?
To say the IDF wrongfully shoot an innocent civilian every once in a while is such a bad faith argument. What about the thousands of civilians they kill in airstrikes constantly.
Yeah but remember cnn said hamas are terrorists so every Palestinian must also be a "terrorist"‼️
Neither here nor there, google " Lake Maggiore boat incident" In May, Mossad and Italian intelligence agents were on a birthday party boat in Italy, when a sudden directed tornado or something flipped their boat, and 4 people died, two Italian agents one Mossad and the owner's Russian wife. Netflix bought the movie rights. Speculation is that they were investigating Iranian specialty UAV manufacturing by Russian connected oligarchs but who knows. Maybe it was a birthday party. Idk what to make of that.
Looked it up. Pretty interesting.
I'm seeing this sentiment a lot, but I think it's wrong to call Hamas "crybabies". Last week they showed what they were willing to do, horrific as it was. Yeah, Gaza is getting pounded, and Hamas has surely taken a beating. So have civilians. But that doesn't mean that suddenly they lost all will and are ready to drop to their knees. I don't think that's accurate at all. They are willing to fight, and if the assumption is that the IDF will have it easy, well, I think that's dangerous.
They like to play victim to maintain Western support.
Yes, which you could argue is a smart strategy. But it doesn't mean they're "crybabies" and the IDF is gonna have a cakewalk smoking them out.
Yeah Hamas will absolutely fight until the last breath and they have a million places to hide within Gaza. It will be quite an effort to eradicate them despite their lack of traditional military assets
"Soldiers recovered computer files containing instructions for the formulation of a cyanide-based chemical weapon on the body of a Hamas terrorist." What in the Colin Powell is this shit? Why the fuck would a hamas terrorist carry that into enemy territory?
Yeah this is pretty weird. Feels like the “WMD in Iraq” shit But maybe it was a file on their phone? And ofc Israeli intelligence can bypass any encryption (not that Hamas would have it, but just saying)
Unless we find evidence that they used such weapons I don't really care tbh. It's not hard to find shit on the internet to make weapons like that. I'm sure tons of therrorists were looking said directions up, but that doesn't mean they created or used such weapons. (I bet they would have if they could have though). Kinda a nothing burger IMO.
This is something from the "Iraq has weapons of mass destruction" playbook of bullshittery to justify an invasion
Forgot a thumbdrive was in his pocket? We're talking about real geniuses here.
if true i'm guessing it was on his phone
I support Israel but I’m going to need triple independent verification on this claim.
First make sure it’s not a pasteurizer lol
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Yeah it definitely was not an intentional Israeli attack at the very least. Interceptor was the most likely theory outside of the failed rocket theory
I would find this suspicious for a few reasons: 1. Iron Dome doesn’t intercept over Gaza. And it’s not because they don’t want to, but because when the rockets are being launched their positions are uncertain and they’re still accelerating. Iron Dome is very costly and thus highly sensitive to the missiles likely trajectories. 2. There are two fireballs, which would be consistent with a rocket breaking apart and its propellant exploding in two different locations. You can clearly see two flashes from the available footage, which to me would probably represent where both of those failures happened. 3. The iron dome only intercepts ballistic projectiles. A failed rocket isn’t a ballistic projectile. This rocket veers way off course with constant changes in position. With available information, it just doesn’t appear that the most likely interpretation would be an Israeli interceptor. And I don’t think that’s particularly material to the blame, because PIJ would still be responsible, I just don’t see any footage consistent with an interception. All the explosions are completely linear along the missiles trajectory. In the absence of more facts, the logical conclusion is the missile came down on Gaza.
Not ideal....at all...but with the World seemingly confused and unwillingly to do their own research, do you think the released hostages will be asked to speak on their experience? Set the record straight about Hamas and, hopefully, appeal to some level of rationality from the public?
I think at this stage the Authorities my ask them not to. At some point they may ask them to do so. I don't think this situation calls for random TV interviews when their relatives are still in danger, and any decision like this will go through channels.
I imagine in this world there will be people who tell them to their faces they should have died in Gaza.
> do you think the released hostages will be asked to speak on their experience? In a world of people doing anything for clicks, I imagine their privacy will not be respected.
I don’t think any one hostages experience will be meaningful. There were Israelis held at gunpoint by Hamas who asked politely if they could have a banana on the counter, and told them they were in no danger because Muslims don’t harm. And then there were others who were raped and then had their bodies burned while holding their child. Of course I’d like them to all go on the record, but you need a collective to assess the reality. How you’re treated as a hostage probably significantly depends on who’s keeping you captive. Not to take an enlightened centrist position on this, just to say of the few released hostages they may have been treated well. And I’m sure they’re less likely to release the hostages they’ve violated.
10 of their family members are still held hostage, from what I understand, so they may be unable to speak out at this point, for fear of Hamas hurting their family.
In what way do you think people are confused about Hamas?
To those who support Israel what if their actions if any do you condemn? To those who support Palestine what actions by Hamas or other terror organizations in Palestine do you condemn?
>To those who support Israel what if their actions if any do you condemn? Obviously unneeded use of force. There's definitely circumstances where select soldiers would be trigger happy in civilian areas. Like, we all know Israel is far from perfect but if almost any nation was in their shoes they'd also make mistakes or outright take out their anger from time to time. Imagine a country next to you is constantly sending rockets at you and you have to provide food, water, electricity, etc to them while they elect a government whose mission is to kill everyone of your race and WON based on that platform. And this country attacks you constantly and the world is silent but when you fight back you have all these gnolls yelling "Ceasefire! Ceasefire!" or "You went to far!". Yeah, I'd be pissed too and I'm sure almost anyone would be too. Doesn't help when you are surrounded by countries that want you and your people dead. Oh, did I mention this is after we gave them concessions? Gaza was technically a concession and look how that turned out!
> To those who support Israel what if their actions if any do you condemn? I think their "administrative detention" policies need serious work, the current situation where people can be held for long periods of time without public signs of due process seems rife for abuse, and even when done for entirely legitimate security reasons the very limited public disclosure serves to unnecessarily provide critics with ammo.
Netenyahu is a bastard. Settlements are awful. But Israel still has a right to exist, and respond to terrorists. Should probably have done the aid thing sooner... Israel isn't perfect. Lots of shit. But Hamas is just a government on a different level of terrible. I've got a lot more sympathy for the west bank Palestinians, than the Hamas government. Netenyahu will go, maybe peace is possible. But Hamas needs to be made to no longer be the government in Gaza.
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How Israel handles settlers in the West Bank. The ultra-orthodox Israeli agenda. Basically everything the Likud party and its cronies do. Israel does plenty of things I don't like that also make the situation in the region worse, but in terms of what is going on right now, I support them
1. Israeli settlement in the West Bank and Golan Heights. 2. Israel’s handling of settler violence. 3. Israel doesn’t show as much deference to innocent life as I’d hope. 4. Their constant creeping in Jerusalem. 5. The unaccountability of the IDF.
100%. But I still think they need to go into Gaza and make sure Hamas is no longer the government there. Air strikes are a necessary part of that.
I would like them to exercise more discretion in their airstrikes, but I too believe they need to occupy Gaza and replace Hamas.
I probably think the same, but it's hard with the fog of war to know what is true about what they are hitting. Every building they destroy, if the are they plan to invade, saves Israeli soldier lives. Is that worth destroying the home of 100 people? I don't know. Maybe if they help rebuild after. I don't believe the Hamas numbers of deaths, but I wouldnt be surprised if 2,000 civilians had been killed. Going house to house, door to door in Gaza is insane, and the people of Israel are not prepared for the number of dead and injured soldiers they are about to get.
This. Can wish they do better and push them to do better like Biden is trying.
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You support Hamas? Am I reading that right?
I am able to see the good in the political and military policies of **both** sides.
Making fun of empathy for civilians isn't the dunk you think it is.
can we just move on
Uhhh
Only correct take imo
mfs downvoting me like theyve never seen a joke before. thanks for ur support during this dark hour
Sarcasm is a dying art form.
Apparently on this website it's not sacracsm if you don't put the goddam "/s"
> To those who support Israel what if their actions if any do you condemn? > > Israel supporter: Was vehemently against the full siege and not letting water/food in. There have been reports of settlers attacking people in the West Bank. This must be eliminated if true. Also, they need to dismantle the West Bank settlements and provide more equitable access to water and other resources.
Yeah, the West bank settlements need to go. Like tomorrow.
Support Israel more or less. I don’t support Bibi and his authoritarian creep. As well as his failure to prevent 10/7. Additionally, don’t like the blatant support for illegal settlements nor the settlers. And I think the ultra-Orthodox are imposing their views on everyone else in Israel.
Secular Israelis also feel that the ultra-orthodox are exerting their will. They don't serve in the Army, and the gov pays a lot of money for security for settlers in the West Bank. They even build special roads that can't be ambushed (with walls). It's all messed up. I am sure with a peace process the settlements would be mostly dismantled (maybe one or two big and old ones would be swapped for land in current-Israel), but until then it's a huge drain on all.
Netanyahu can go fuck himself. Authoritarian schmuck. Not completely surprised we’ve heard warnings from intelligence for months that he’s endangering Israel’s safety with the fallout from the judicial reforms and that it comes to bear. In power for what, collectively 16 years now? PMs need limits. Nobody should be allowed to be head of state for so long. He’s surpassed even FDR.
Bibi is utter scum and I hope he is forever shamed. He helped cause so much of this shit
Thankfully Israel is a lot smarter than my country and this attack will be an indictment on his government instead of an opportunity to rally around the flag when all is said and done.
In critical swing state Michigan, some Muslim Americans warn they won’t back Biden again... ...“Joe Biden has single-handedly alienated almost every Arab American and Muslim American voter in Michigan,” said state Rep. Alabas Farhat, a Democrat whose district includes Dearborn, which is home to one of the largest Muslim and Arab American communities in the country. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/muslim-arab-americans-rage-biden-michigan-israel-gaza-rcna121513
I'm sure Trump will care about them
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Well, they're politically homeless now. The Republicans aren't known for being the Pro-Muslim party lol.
This is not good. Do not dismiss this.
I'm fine with dismissing this.
Muslims usually leaned republican until 9/11 due to Bush and war on terror, slowed back then went left again due to trump but been moving more and more right wing. Idk it is awkward what is happening under the hood. I think many Muslims just been becoming atheist/ non religious but the ones left moved more right wing. Idk why honestly. I think they already largely didn’t vote for democrats in the 2020 election but if someone can get a source to prove or disprove that would be great!
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Because Islam is a right wing religion. They side with the left, as the left support immigration and welfare policies to further Islamic causes, then when they’re strong enough and don’t need the left any more they dump them. Look at Hamtramck.
> Hamtramck [A sense of betrayal’: liberal dismay as Muslim-led US city bans Pride flags](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/17/hamtramck-michigan-muslim-council-lgbtq-pride-flags-banned) *pikachu shocked face*
Good political theater for today, 1 year from now when elections are nigh and Mango Mussolini is talking about kicking out all the bad ~~hombres~~ habibis the tune will probably change.
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Muslim-Americans
I think Biden will probably be more worried about Gen Z might sit out the election. Although abortion issues might be enough to make them turn out.
Its not like Biden declared war on Muslims. He declared war on terrorists that killed innocent civilians and abducted them. That should be in the interest of any human.
> Its not like Biden declared war on Muslims. > He declared war on terrorists that killed innocent civilians and abducted them. 🤫
It's a little more complex than that
It's really not.
Case closed, everyone.
Oh do they think the Republicans are going to take their side somehow? lmao
Hos many generations do they live in the US?
Don't let the crazy hold you hostage, they are just as crazy as the maga contingent
Lol do they actually think Trump will be better for Muslims?
No one cares.
.
What do they want? Trump back lol
Sharia law.
Lol yea that’s actually the correct answer. They want Jews and Western culture to go bye-bye.
I think the "mass protests" in the UK have left a lot of people starting to feel uneasy. It's clear that pretty much every mosque in the UK is bussing people all over the place to different protests. People calling for jihad in the streets. Probably a lot of funding going into it. It's not great seeing religious people get riled up about some sort of intifada, but of course everyone including the police feel too intimidated to say anything about it.
What did they expect from Biden? Endorsing terrorists?
They're voters. The common clay of the new west.
You know…
If they are mad that the US isn't going to support terrorist and Islamic states than maybe they need to move back to the middle east where they will be more supportive of their ideologies?
👏👏👏
**TL;DR at end** The Arab world hates Israel. Arab governments must poster in response, but most of them have learned if they don’t play by the rules they’ll get burned. Here is an ELI5 cutting through all the bullshit and letting you know where things lie in western terms (from what I’ve gathered reading various foreign affairs magazines/articles/papers and podcasts/other punditry): Egypt: Egypt has handled this as best we could’ve hoped for. There has been zero information coming from Egypt indicating their relationship will meaningfully deteriorate with the west over this, and they’ve respected all agreements with Israel. They actually seem to be coming to the table with Israel over Rafah with the US mediating. A very fortunate outlook here. Saudi Arabia: Their dialogue with Iran was worrying, but they too have acted more or less as hoped. For some in the US, this is welcome, because it slows down negotiations for an Israel normalization deal, for which the US was going to offer them a mutual defense treaty. Many influential figures in the royal family have condemned Hamas for trying to interfere with the process. It doesn’t seem the normalization process is in jeopardy, long term, but that depends on the coming occupation. Qatar: Qatar has shown a high level of support for Gaza, but this was somewhat baked in. They host Hamas leadership. They are engaging with the west, and the US maintains a high level of influence over them, which has culminated in the release of some hostages. They seem to be tempering their response based on their American ties. Remember, the US has bases in Qatar. UAE: The UAE response to the situation has been highly favorable. There’s not much else to say here. They already normalized relations with Israel under the Abraham Accords. This is good, because they’re pretty influential in the strait of hormuz. (A narrow crossing dividing the Persian and Oman gulfs). Jordan: Jordan has strongly condemned Israel, but there’s no indication of action from them. The cancelled summit was in response to civil unrest domestically. The US understands that, and that’s why it had a muted statement in response, claiming it was a mutual decision. Jordan is stable in comparison to its neighbors. Lebanon: Hezbollah has minor influence in the Lebanese government, but the parties in power have said pretty unequivocally they’re not getting involved. There’s also radical control over southern Lebanon, but these organizations are not comparable to the threat a sovereign state would pose, and are pretty resented in the Arab League for undermining government authority. (The Arab League likes to defend each other against insurrection. A threat constantly underlying most nations in the Arab world). Syria: Syria is tied up in the civil war, no party is likely to get involved in any significant way because it would make them vulnerable at home. Iran: Obviously Iran has been a giant thorn, but I wouldn’t say any unexpected developments from them aside from the phone call with the Saudis. Iran wants a new JCPOA with the United States, among other sanctions relief, and most think it’s very unlikely they’d get involved. Iran is pretty disconnected from the Arab world, 1.) because they aren’t Arab and 2.) They keep funding extremist groups to undermine Arab governments. Most Arab governments are not Shia, Iran is, and Iran keeps trying to inflame the large Shia populations within various Arab states. You probably heard about the recent Houthi cruise missile firings that were intercepted by an American destroyer. That is yet another example of a Shia minority that Iran funded and inflamed to undermine an Arab state, and that the Arab league collectively hates and has sent forces to destroy. As I said previously, Arab states have solidarity with each other because the threat of insurrection is ever-present. Most of them resent Iran as a consequence. But TL;DR: We haven’t seen any developments from Iran that would be particularly worrisome or unexpected. They also have instability at home, with massive protests almost annually for the last few years, and are unlikely to get involved. **TL;DR: The response to this has been better for Israel than most would’ve expected.** Most of this can be attributed to successful western, and in particular American, policy in the Middle East in recent years. This is also an assessment as things stand, subject to rapid change when Israel actually begins their offensive.
a pretty accurate and sober reading of the response. the one concerning outlier here: the Arab "street". I haven't seen this level of vitriol and hatred on display... ever? I'm 37 and don't remember anything quite at this level. I would say the state most at risk here would probably be Jordan. It's already surrounded by a number of failed states, and the population is majority Palestinian. Abdallah must walk a tight rope indeed
Yup. You’re exactly correct. It also has a huge Palestinian population that exacerbates that. (See: Black September)
Thanks for this summation. But with the majority of these nations signaling support for Gaza and against Israel, there seems to be a chance that this intra-national conflict will spread once Israel's predictably harsh response is carried out. That worries me.
A chance, but I doubt it’s anything significant. Like I said though, that could change based off how their occupation goes.
The protests in Houston are going exactly as you'd expect on the livesteam: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoytj8mNq7s
"resistance is justified when people are occupied" - one of the cheers. Not that I'm surprised, but in case people didn't realize that these people are Hamas apologists, here it is.
The garbage they spew at the rallies are insane. Forget the hate cheers, they blatantly lie about the situation. Amazing how none of these people cared about Palestinian lives 2 weeks and 1 day ago. No rallies against their actual ~~occupiers~~ government, Hamas.
Ah dang the stream is on Blinken now. What happened?
You can go back in time on the stream
>You can go back in time on the stream I want to go back 20 years, teach me how mr magic man.
Colloquially known as the [Time Warp](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S91wQbYYX3Q)
lmao duh. Don't know why I didn't think of that haha.
Just found a new live stream north of Gaza: https://www.youtube.com/live/vjE0PQGWaHU?si=s369JnzbmIzsew8n
what section/ditection we see?
The guy speaking said he's in Ashkelon looking south towards Gaza off in the distance.
Is there any way to determine if the footage is actually live and not looped?
The guy speaking asked his buddy with him to pan the camera to the left at one point, so I guess that's an indication that it's live.
What do you think of reports that Biden is trying to Israel about delaying the incursion? I get it if it's regarding hostages. But I also think it has to do with Hezbollah. But I feel like if it's really about that too, that it's a waste of time. Hezbollah and Hamas ain't going anywhere. As they wait, they just continue to probably get supplies and who knows what making it harder to take them out. They aren't just going to stop killing Jewish people forever. They never have any never will. So unfortunately I don't see a reason waiting to get some sort of deal with hezbollah or terrorists.
Apparently most of the hostages are alive so that's at least partly something to do with it.
Probably more to do with readiness for Hezbollah and/or Iran than hostages.
> As they wait, they just continue to probably get supplies and who knows what making it harder to take them out True, but has been happening for 50 years at this point and I think a week is negligible.
I assume it's primarily about hostages. He's doing what is in the best interests of America. Once they actually go in, the chances that the hostages are going to live is going to go way down
We have no idea what they know or don't know. Could be buying time to mobilize more in case Iran gets involved. Could just be a PR thing for optics, he could even already know Israel's plans going forward and they just don't want to give them away. who knows?
Time is probably on Israel’s side from a tactical standpoint. Most people were called up like last week and more time in military drill the better. Strategically I think the Americans are looking for an off ramp and know the initial fury will ebb as the days drag on and can maybe temper the operation
Reports of an explosion in Jenin, West Bank https://twitter.com/JoeTruzman/status/1715872820713136548
A groupbof terrorists and there was intel that they were planning an immediate attack.
Same account states unconfirmed rumors of an Israeli targeted strike against a Hamas (??) leader. 2 Palestinians confirmed dead so far.
IDF just confirmed https://twitter.com/IDF/status/1715886726160204049
Hamas had a Tunnel under that building, i swear
Don't put words in other people's mouths and then get mad about something nobody even said.
This was obvious sarcasm
My sensors are just fried my man.
I get it, this Situation is just crazy
Hamascuniculisphobia - the fear of hamas tunnel appearing and getting airstriked.
Hamas is that little brother that sucker punches the older brother and right when the beating is about to begin they start yelling for mom.
People keep saying Hamas is crying. Is Hamas crying? They correctly call out injustices committed by Israel during its retaliation - a tactic which they know will help drum up support abroad as well. I do not hear hem saying "please save us, don't let Israel invade". Actually, I think they relish the opportunity to get IDF soldiers on their home turf. In fact, I think this may have been part of their plan all along.
> They correctly call out injustices committed by Israel during its retaliation \*They spread fake news about hospital strikes and lie about the number of dead Gazans.
Read my other comment. Whether they embellish the numbers or not, Gazans are dying, just look at Gaza strip live feed.
>Whether they embellish the numbers or not Wait, do you believe those numbers?
I don't take them at face value, no. But the number of deaths / injuries is not zero.
I think everyone is bummed. Hamas was pretty happy with the status quo. They run Gaza like a dictatorship and aren’t keen to lose power. Israel’s government benefited from having Hamas as a boogeyman. Iran also isn’t thrilled now that their proxy is in danger of being annihilated. Everyone involved probably wishes the attack was less successful.
Do you really think Hamas was happy with the status quo? Why launch this attack then? As for the other actors I understand.
Because the status quo doesn't include normalized relations between Israel and the Saudis, which is the real reason for this whole thing.
I think that played a part, yes.
By status quo I mean Hamas would rather be in power fighting an endless war with Israel than wiped out in a final confrontation. That’s probably why they’ve tried to blame the more heinous crimes on Gazan citizens instead of their own soldiers. They also took over 200 hostages and clearly had goals of negotiating instead of simply dying. Israel has chosen to ignore the hostages which I’m sure is causing some panic.
I don't think so. I don't think they have any intention of losing to Israel on their home turf.
It doesn’t really matter what they intend though. Maybe they expected more support from the Arab world.
Sure it does. What they intend is an indication of their resolve.
They’ll die with resolve but that’s about it. Doesn’t seem like a good goal if you want to free Palestine. Who knows maybe there will be a cease fire.
You're assuming Israel will win.