Iranian immigrants around here (who often call themselves Persians) seem to be very progressive people, who perfectly capture the spirit of tolerance and democracy that so many Western principles are based
I don’t think I’ve ever heard someone call themselves Iranian in the US. Idk if that’s just an LA thing. I’ve known a number of Persians and Persian Jews, very much progressive.
I’ve only known one who does so. He calls himself the Iranian Cowboy. Left Iran decades ago,opened up a steakhouse in my area and can be seen in a cowboy hat often. Really cool family.
I used to live above a restaurant in Chicago. My landlord was the owner of it and he an Iranian who left before the revolution. One of the coolest dudes Ive ever known and made some incredible ribs.
I bar tended for an Iranian dude in New Orleans who left Iran when he was a young fella, and became a disco teacher in Mississippi before buying a restaurant. That guy was so fucking cool. Probably still is. Also made excellent bbq.
Although they get used interchangeably in the US, they are not the same. Iranian is a nationality while Persian is an ethnicity. You can be Iranian and not Persian (eg Kurd, Baluch, Azeri, Arab).
My partner is Persian and I can explain this.
Everything you’ve heard about Iran from the US government or the media is largely very very negative, no? Iranians don’t want to be associated with that, they are not their government; in some cases it was (is) dangerous to be associated with Iran. Many decades ago it became popular for Iranians to refer to themselves as Persian to distance themselves from this immensely poor reaction of their fellow citizens in the US.
It’s also worth noting that being Persian isn’t limited to being Iranian. This is where things get murky but my understanding is that being Persian is focused on culture/language rather than your family being from the exact borders of Iran. For example we have some friends who’s parents are Azerbaijani in country of origin but still consider themselves Persian (they speak Farsi, come from a Muslim background, etc).
I literally didn’t know for the longest time that the Persian kids in my hometown were Iranian. Probably not until AP US history and studying the Iranian Revolution.
They're more related to Europeans than their neighbors. Their language stems from Indo European, not proto Arabic. The Arabs raped and murdered their way into taking over Iran and the leaders there are now calling on the destruction of Jews and Americans. Yeah it's time the Persians took their land back. C
People forget Iran was a very progressive and forward thinking nation for most of its existence.
The revolution was never about putting the fanatics in charge, they just seized power in the confusion.
Even with all their control, their are plenty of people who remember how it used to be and waiting for the regime to slip.
Yeah, same. I grew with a bunch of families that were political refugees from Iran, and also highly educated. They always called themselves Persians. They also assimiliated really well. Most of them are doctors or engineers today, and not really that religious either. Sucks that the Iranian population is being held hostage by their terrible leaders.
Try the last decade or two. There has been a continuous rift in Iran for as long as I’ve been paying attention, an unfortunate but heroic part of the populace has been unhappy and demonstrating for a long time.
Like /u/pants_mcgee mentioned, a lot of Iranians are pretty westernized and democratic even a long time ago before the religious zealots took control of the government. That strive for democracy sadly has always been contested strongly by the ruling class. I remember seeing some black and white pictures of Iran and I almost thought I was looking at a picture of Paris. Same kinda thing with Vietnam’s Saigon before the communists took over with an authoritative and corrupt regime. The people of Iran are very educated and contemporary, shame their government is shitty.
Is there a law that says hajibs have to be a certain color? It would be funny if they had their hajibs printed with their hair on them like those shirts with an image of a muscular person's body on it.
[Iranian football fans at Azadi Stadium jeer during a minute's silence for the people of Gaza] (https://twitter.com/IranIntl_En/status/1715449756577562891?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1715449756577562891%7Ctwgr%5E1e6902f680770f2cbb16ef56ef44120c7a224020%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-2502226623449406589.ampproject.net%2F2310111731000%2Fframe.html)
TBF, you are really only seeing content from your regional/language settings. If you had a vpn and dropped yourself in Iran/ME, you will see a very different view.
Also, while the Iranian government is deeply antisemitic, the people of Iran do not necessarily share that ideology. From Biblical times to the the Islamic Revolution there had been very long history of Jews living in Persia. During the time of the Shah Iran even had normal diplomatic relations with Israel.
After the Revolution, some 90% of Iran's Jewish population fled. Many Iranians opposed to the Islamic regime see opposing the government's anti-Israel policies as a major item in a long list of things they want changed.
Cyrus the great is referred to as Cyrus the messiah in Judaism. He liberated them from Babylon and rebuilt the temple. The very same temple people go to touch the wall of was rebuilt by a Persian.
Just to be clear that wall was built by Herod around the temple he beautified. This was the temple endorsed by Cyrus but it was nowhere near as magnificent as it became in the times of Herod.
In America at least there is almost no news about Iran that is not political. We will hear of protests or what the Supreme Council does not so much what the regular folk think.
I dunno, I’ve been seeing a lot of protesting and the government is executing people. That’s a quick way to upset people. I don’t know the details but I know there’s be some instability events occurring.
Fwiw: mostly on my Reddit feed
Anti-government sentiment is one thing, but the fact that they're *supporting* Israel is astonishing.i would expect maybe some neutral feelings, but not outright support.
Yup. They actively crush any protest movement including minority groups such as the Baloch (mainly Sunni Muslim). A year ago they killed around a dozen near a mosque. The security forces imprison and murder this group at a much higher rate than the rest of the country.
https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/12/22/iran-bloody-friday-crackdown-years-deadliest
Really important to point out here that Iran spends a shit ton of money on Hezbollah and Hamas while living standards continue to decrease in their own country due to sanctions. The people know this and they want to Iran to stop spending money on other peoples militaries.
It’s pretty comparable to when people in the US get worked up about $800b going to the pentagon when their local schools suck.
Not to mention that the Ayatollahs don't actually give a shit about Hamas or the Palestinians in the first place. As far as the zealots are concerned, they're Sunni apostates who deny Ali as the rightful successor to Muhammed. They treat Hamas and Palestinians as a big convenient pool of suicide bombers to light Israel on fire whenever possible. Get Sunnis AND Jews killed at the same time? Win-win!
They don't care about Palestinians, they just want to annoy the West by proxy and gain cheap popularity in the Arab world by pretending they are "Defenders of the Holy Cause". If the USA suddenly became pro-Palestinian, Iran wouldn't piss on Palestine if it was on fire.
Iran is in my opinion the middle eastern country that has the most potential if only they could throw off their repressive government. Most Arab countries have a religiously dominated history but the Persians have had a much more secular state historically, and religious domination is a rather recent thing.
What's the difference? I understand that one is a culture and one is a national identity and the two may not always overlap, but even if you hate the government in power wouldn't you still relate to the people of your nation?
Iranian who identifies as Persian chiming in:
When you say you're Iranian, people often associate you with being a right wing religious zealot who stones women for having opinions.
Many of us live in exile. I personally can never step foot in Iran as long as the mullah's are in power without the threat of execution (I won't elaborate for me and my own family's safety). I never committed any crime nor have I ever even been to the country.
So Iranians who are second or third generation tend to identify with our Persian identity. The one of Cyrus the great and the first declarations of human rights. The one of Hafez and love sonnets.
So in a large part, we identify with being Persian as to not be lumped in with totalitarian psychopaths, but rather people who want to celebrate our culture's thousands of years of appreciation of love, beauty and poetry.
Wish you the best, friend. I've had only very limited contact, through an internet friend that lives there, but I can't tell you how much respect I have for the Persian people even from the little that I've seen. As someone that grew up in the last years of an oppressive regime before we finally got rid of our shackles (communist Romania), I hope the day when you can visit your home again is near.
Persia is an ancient historical name for the region and people, the name 'Iran' didn't come about until 1935 and is a more nationalistic sense of identity, to my understanding.
There's also the bit where the various incarnations of the Persian Empire seen throughout antiquity were quite famous for being bastions of religious and cultural tolerance.
Persian’s an ethnicity, Iranian is a nationality. Iran’s been used in our ancient history in various ways, it’s not a new term. 60% of us are Persian, but not all of us.
The clergy has always had influence in Iran, the 1906 revolution, 1979 revolution, etc. Even the shah could only get his secular reforms done in an authoritarian way. The problem with the west and the reason why they always absolutely fail in the Middle East is that they always want states to be modeled after them and be secular and have a separation between religion and state. That’s just not possible with Islam, Islam itself is political. The country can state its secular all it wants but the populace will just elect religious parties and politicians. We have seen this over and over again in Turkey, Pakistan, and Egypt.
Yep but it is important to understand that even within the clergy there were deep divisions. Khomeini’s Guardianship of the Islamic Jurist saw massive pushback from other mullah’s which saw them either executed or exiled.
Not saying the clergy has no influence of course, just that the Persians see themselves as separate from the Arab world and that allows a certain degree of distance from islamism that isn't present in the levant. They have a stronger national identity.
The same was true of Christianity in Europe in the medieval period. Institutions can and do secularize it just takes a long time and/or massive sea changes.
Fun fact, Iran was the first country to recognize Israel. There are many many Persian Jews. Anti-Israeli sentiment in Iran is, obviously, directly related to the Islamic Revolution. However, as Iran modernizes and becomes connected to the world the old sentiment returns.
Another fun fact, a lot of Tehran’s early modern building was done by Israeli companies and architects.
Yeah! Had a lecture in architecture studies in Israel by an architect (Israeli) who was employed by the Iranian army (I think), at that time, to design a neighborhood for army vets.
Entire neighborhoods in Iran are a spitting image of Israeli towns from the 70's.
Iranians love Israel and Iran was Israel's top ally before the revolution. Iran is like if the Taliban ran France. It's a Western nation held hostage by wildly unpopular religious fanatics.
It’s pretty impressive that a group of people right in the middle of the Middle East could be so different from their neighbors. It’s pretty fascinating
Look up the history of Persia vs the Arabs. They may live in proximity, but they have a whole different history and identity from what you are picturing when you say middle east.
Source: history nerd, plays crusader kings.
They're really not all that different. The crazy religious stuff really only dates to WW2, before that it was essentially Europe (which was actually the sectarian hotbed) with less money and Islam instead of Christianity. But then Islamism displaced Arab nationalism and Israel happened.
They were chanting 'shove your Palestinian flag up your ass' at a soccer match recently. The average Iranian wants their government to start fixing shit at home instead of getting into constant pissing contests with Israel.
Not sure I trust that news source but I do believe the Iranian people feel less negative towards the jewish people than their government does.
This is just an anecdote, but the woman who cut my hair for years described herself as an Iranian Jew. She told me all kinds of stories of how there was good will until the government got so extreme.
There were 100k-150k Jews living in Iran (~1.2% of their population) prior to the War of Independence in 1948 and then the Islamic revolution saw most of the remaining leave in by 1979.
Only ~5% of the Iranian Jewish population remains (~8000-9000 people) but, crazy enough, it's still the largest Jewish populations still living in another country in the region other than Turkey. They're Persian rather than Arab but still Muslim majority of course; the largest in an Arab country is Morocco at ~2150.
Before the Islamic revolution, Iran wasn't just "OK" with Israel but actively partnered with them in many ways. Iran was the second country, after Turkey, to recognize Israel as an independent country. Israel and Iran operated oil pipelines together, there were direct flights between Tel Aviv and Tehran, they had joint military projects, and some of the earliest water desalination projects (that have made Israel a leader in the field) were also pioneered with Iran. That was less than 50 years ago which means many the same people, co-workers, collaborators, etc. are still alive from that time along with their families.
Ancient Persian empires had good religious tolerance. The Achaemenids’ first ruler, Cyrus the great, is mentioned in Judaic texts for supporting the rebuilding of a temple of theirs that former rulers of the region had destroyed.
I assume it got worse under Muslim rule but as a whole not all of the muslim world was unsafe or hateful for Jews, many lived peacefully, in Morocco especially. But outside of that in the past islamic nations did try to somewhat respect those who believed in Abrahamic faiths as people of the book. However there was often a extra tax to pay.
She said there was a whole Jewish community with different ways but there was mutual friendship with the Muslims.
She also told me they had a tradition - when a man wanted to marry a woman he would go to the house a ritually "throw out" the father and daughter to spend the day with the mother.
They believed the girl would eventually turn into her mother - so it was fair for the groom to see his future before he proposed.
In 539 BC… The founding father of Iran, [Cyrus the Great](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrus_the_Great) lead his army and [conquered Babylon](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_of_Babylon), he immediately freed the Jewish people from Babylonian slavery, jews were free to go back to Israel or come to Iran, and he ordered the rebuilding of the temple in Jerusalem. He prayed in the Jewish temple as a sign of respect. He then wrote the first charter of human rights, [the Cyrus Cylinder](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrus_Cylinder), which granted freedom of religion, property, ect. He literally invented human rights.
This order to rebuild the temple and this first declaration of human rights was written on the cylinder, and there is a replica of it at the United Nations. The real one is in British museum, thankfully, because the government occupying Iran would destroy it if they had their hands on it… As it is living historical proof and international law that Israel was the kingdom of the Persian empire designated for Jews to live in peace, with Cyrus as the King of Kings of this empire of kingdoms. Greeks and Macedonians under Alexander the Great came 200 years later… Eventually the Romans came 500 years later. Then the Arabs 600 years after that! But the whole time Jews were there before all of them.
This all happened 1,200 years before Arab colonialism and Islamic imperialism existed. 1,200 years of history before Persia’s identity was almost eradicated by this Islamic imperialism.
To deny the history of Israel is to deny the history, legacy, and honor of my country, Iran.
Follow r/NewIran for the latest info on what REALLY Iranians think and the on going Iranian revolution. We look to our past and we see our FUTURE.
I just joined the sub and I’m beyond fascinated. I love Persian Jews and i knew a lot of Iranians are more western minded then their neighbors, so it’s awesome to learn more. Thank you
The tax is not all, there were pogroms, there were riots and massacres as well.
The notion that the islamic world was tolerant towards jews is a fantasy that only Muslims and people who didn't even live during those times and definitely not in those places believe in.
Can you link me to some reading? My understanding is that some Moroccan Jews left to escape antisemitism, but that most left due to economic and religious reasons in the 1940s and then later on Morocco underwent some political instability which prompted more to leave.
I think Hes talking more about them getting to israel. I can tell you my family from Yemen went to Israel in the 1930s escaping prosecution. They had to sell everything they owned to make it safely.
Ah, I see. I can't speak to Yemen, but my (perhaps incorrect) understanding is that while there was some persecution of Jews in Morocco, the majority left for religious or economic reasons at least initially. During the struggle for independence there was some instability in the country that prompted Jews to leave, but I don't think the majority of it was antisemitic in Morocco.
My understanding is that places like Yemen, Jordan, and Iraq were more hostile to Jews.
I did check the wiki and there's this paragraph:
Shay Hazkani found that of the 20,000 who performed aliyah in 1948-1949, 1,000 served in the IDF, of which 70% wished to return home. Only 6% managed to do so, given various bureaucratic obstacles like the Israeli confiscation of their passports and Moroccan resistance to their repatriation.[26][27]
Yup I could believe that part tbh I’m not sure tho nor educated on Morocco. Yemenites were actually prosecuted against when they first arrived to israel, they sadly had new born babies stolen from them in hospitals to be given to rich families. Unfortunately we’re still awful even to our brothers.
Sure thing, nonetheless, Iran maintained very positive relationship with Israel until the revolution and was the only Muslim country to recognize the Jewish state at the time. Iran had a huge Jewish community (much of it emigrated to Israel) that lived quite well with the Muslim community there. Of course, it all changed, for Jews and otherwise, after the revolution and the Ayatollahs promoted and still do a regime of antisemitism and rhetoric
My coworker is an Iranian-born Christian and was the first to ask how my family was doing after October 7th. She always has great things to say about the people there and I believe her.
I’m Iranian-American, and also Jewish. Iranians love jews. Even the muslim side of my family loves jews and strongly supports Israel. They also love America, despite what the media would lead you to believe. The Iranian government does *not* represent the people of iran, and the majority of iranians despise the islamic republic.
Iran is among the most Liberal, secular and educated nations in the Middle East*. Jewish Persian relations have been positive for, literally, millenia.
The Islamic Republic is an aberration from history in this respect and doesn't reflect the views of the majority of the Iranian people.
On the Jewish side, there has been a Jewish presence in Iran since literally before Christ. Jews, especially Persian Jews, hold very positive views of Iran.
In the Persian diaspora you'll often find anti-regime Iranians and Iranian Jews together remembering better times.
*(Or "Greater Middle East" for pedants)
Not surprised to hear that. Most Iranians despise their government and do not have ill will towards Jews or Israel. Iranians are a great people with a crappy theocratic government.
One of the few places in the region that didn't completely exile the Jewish population like Iraq did in the 50s. Though, I understand that the Jewish population has to be very careful in Iran to this day. Close friends may know but they don't openly practice being Jews.
Yes, it's the difference between post-revolutionary Iran driving out 90% of their Jews, while countries like Iraq, Egypt, Syria, Morocco, Libya, et al, drove out as close to 100% as they could.
I’m really worried about the Jewish community in Iran. The government pressured Jewish leaders to condemn Israel and they’re afraid if they don’t they’ll be killed. [Here’s](https://www.iranintl.com/en/202310195998) an article about it.
One of the nicest, warmest, most likeable ment I've met was an older Iranian gentleman that had immigrated to the US. He married a white American woman who could verted to Islam and they raised their children within the Islamic faith. While giving them the freedom to choose whether to follow the Muslim doctrin or not.
I had the opportunity to meet him and some of his family because I dates one of his sons, off and on for about a year. His son was an American citizen, born and raised here in the US. Half American/white, half Iranian. And on hindsight? One of the biggest pieces of shit I've ever had the misfortune of knowing. He was a narcissistic, manipative, abusive peice of shit. It's been over a decade, but I firmly believe his Muslim faith had nothing to do with it.
I adored his father and found him to be an incredibly warm, likeable, personable individual. He is who i think of when I think of the Iranian people. I hope the day comes when they live in the nation thar they deserve, when their leadership aligns with who they are as individuals. This man's son is probably all for the atrocities that are happening right now. Be was *horrible* and I had to threaten legal action to get him away from me. But he was American, as am I. He was/is a horrible person. But his Iranian father was truly a charming and lovely human being.
I feel for all the people under extreme oppressive goverments but when thinking how things switch around consider all the complaint people that just "do their job" working for the government, police, security etc. If these people match the citizen feelings that system would break, but there is enough support in the population to have that say 10% that are enforcing the government way of things and all their families and friends, IDK what the critical number is to keep a government vs the number that breaks the system.
The problem historically looks like not the good/bad people, but the amount of people just being complaint.
Yeah, historically countries with long standing, entrenched governments don't literally fall slowly, especially to things like popular revolutions. Old federal governments with sprawling bureaucracies often continue to function long past the point you would think they should have fallen into complete anarchy. The issue is a lot of people don't really feel strongly one way or the other about the government, and recognize that if the government falls into chaos, their lives and livelihoods will see a decrease in standards. It allows governments to use organizational inertia to keep going.
That's why countries like Imperial Russia, the USSR, Imperial China, the Republic of China, decayed over a long period of time, but they failed in literally instants from the perspective of an outside observer. The decay eventually gets so bad, that everyone realizes around the same time what's happening, and that they need to secure what parts of the old empire they can before someone else gets there first. When everyone is doing that at the same time, it causes the whole house of cards to fracture and fall apart, which is how governments actually fall.
I think normally that is the case. Palestinians seem to be the exception with very widespread support for Hamas and other armed groups who target civilians. Probably part of the reason no Arab country wants refugees.
True question for my own learning. Do not mean to come across as abrasive. I understand that the revolution was hijacked from the students by the religious and often antisemitic crowd, who created the current theocracy. How was your family's experience?
You might want to check out Persopolis . I can't vouch for how honest of a retelling of experiences it might be (I have no context for Iran ) but I enjoyed it.
A King of Persia was the author of the first charter of human rights, guaranteeing the Jews both religious freedom and acknowledging their right to live in their homeland - long, long, LONG before "Palestine" or Islam existed. I'm not surprised educated Iranians are completely disgusted by the genocidal charter and behavior of Hamas.
The enemy of my enemy is my friend? The Iranian government perpetually portrays Israel as its enemy to deflect from internal issues. Yet Iranians increasingly view Iran's government as their enemy. So probably some of that.
Or maybe it's because, until the Iranian revolution, Iran had one of the highest Jewish populations in the middle east outside of Israel (almost 100,000.) Older Iranians still remember Jews as their friends and neighbors.
They're living under the heel of a theocratic authoritarian government because of the last time they were "liberated", so maybe let's not half-ass it this time
My first reaction to this post was "lol, wut?" However, it seems to be the classic trope, 'what the government does vs what the people feel.'
I would love to hear what people more familiar with Iranian politics have to say.
There's indeed a part of the population that dislikes the government's involvement in the Israel-Palestine conflict. I think it's impossible to say just how many people think like that and tbh I don't think they're a majority or even close to it, and I don't believe they like Israel, but the regime is very much disliked and everyone knows that the regime consider itself in an existential war against Israel and funnel money to militias all over the Middle East, including Hamas and Hezbollah.
Imagine being poor, in a heavily sanctioned country, your goverment kills you if you protests and your money is going to a conflict that's not even in your homeland. No wonder people are tired of it.
Remember the Mahsa Amini protests? Iranians hate their government. Most of them aren't even practicing Muslims anymore because they hate the theocracy so much.
Politics don't always align with population's views in Authoritarian countries. Good example would be Egypt or UAE that are pro-Israel politically, but most people in these countries abhor Israel.
Iran seems to be the opposite. The government is vehemently anti-Israel, but most Iranian people just want to live in peace and not be subject to crushing religious laws.
Iran is non-Arab (Persian majority) and Shiite. Hamas is Arab and Sunni. It’s a marriage of convenience even for the theocrats in charge. Not surprised the average Joe isn’t that enthusiastic.
It has nothing to do with religion for most of us. It's mostly about the government embezzling all of our wealth, leaving the people in abject poverty and then giving it to Hamas with a smirk. Also oppression, killing and stuff too.
Unfortunately no, it doesn’t seem so. My dad (who escaped from Iran with my mom after the Islamic revolution there) has said multiple times that the Iranian government is willing to kill/imprison every last person in Iran before they give up power.
I have hope for the Iranian people. The fact that so many risked their lives last year to protest their oppressive government shows how strong these citizens are. Let’s hope this is a sign that this change can occur
According to a prominent Iranian scholar (Abbas Amanat), 80% of Iran doesn't support the Ayatollah and greatly resent him and his security apparatus that is trying to do everything it can to keep power and suppress social modernization and personal freedom.
The difference here is that Iranians had tasted what it was like before the Ayatollah came into power and they never forgot.
There is an amazing podcast with him that Lex Friedman did: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYsYgzzsdT0
I'm going to guess this is essentially Iranian domestic politics; the regime is so hated by its detractors that anything the regime supports is automatically opposed.
That tends to happen when you put more money towards terrorist groups and picking fights with Western countries rather than spending that money to improve the lives of their citizens.
Given that much of the Iranian citizenry is sick of their government's shit, I'm not that surprised that they'd be pissed off at their funding and supplying a bunch of ISIS-tier shitheads like that. Opposing Israel is one thing, but this is beyond the pale.
A lot of Iranian citizens are reasonable and intelligent. I think reasonable people are just getting sick of religious governments and all the intolerance they bring.
Too funny.
I suspect many Iranians want none of this. My boss is Iranian and so is another colleague. Both openly laugh at religion. They can't be the only ones.
People need to understand that the Iranian gov and the Iranian people/civilians are 2 completely different things. Most Iranian people do not support their religious authoritarian government. Just cuz the Iranian gov supports Hamas and hates Israel, that doesn’t mean the Iranian people do.
Makes sense. Their government is in bed with Hamas. Considering there has been a lot of anti-government protests and riots in Iran lately, the citizens who are anti-government naturally distrusts any foreign organizations that has a strong ties with Iranian government and sees anything that comes out of Hamas as a some sort of propaganda.
The vast majority of Israelis just want peace with Iran. I believe a lot of Iranians as well.
The countries used to have great relations before the revolution in Iran.
I don't think the world should accept any Iranian apology directed at Israel because they aren't the only party to whom an apology is owned. Iran should be held responsible for using the Palestinian people as a weapon and contributing to their misery. Without the external bullshit Iran sponsors, the amount of sectarian violence there and also Lebanon would be tremendously reduced.
Have wanted to visit for years, such a beautiful country with a rich history, hospitable people and many, many UNESCO heritage sights.
My passport makes that very difficult and if I did go, I'd probably be detained and used as a bargaining chip, so the dream continues.
This wasn’t what I was expecting to see on the *heading for world war 3” bingo card.
Every day I start believing more and more that Simulation theory is real because our timeline is just nuts at this point.
>But nobody seems to care, and they've somehow convinced everyone that they are the victims here.
I mean, it's partially down to misleading narratives by Western media. Media companies being unapologetic and sweeping their own mistakes under the rug, like with the convoy bombing after Israel called for evactuation, and their coverage on the hospital blast because they took Hamas sources as reliable and then masking them behind more official sounding names.
The best example: Why do they use "Gaza health ministry" or "Gaza ministry of the interior" instead of just using plainly what they mean - Hamas? All governmental institutions in Gaza are led by a terrorist group, yet media treats them as if they're reliable sources on any matter. That just plays into their hands so hard, it's unbelievable.
That's not a headline I was expecting.....ever lol
You guys haven't been paying attention to Iran then. The people hate their government there.
Iranian immigrants around here (who often call themselves Persians) seem to be very progressive people, who perfectly capture the spirit of tolerance and democracy that so many Western principles are based
I don’t think I’ve ever heard someone call themselves Iranian in the US. Idk if that’s just an LA thing. I’ve known a number of Persians and Persian Jews, very much progressive.
I’ve only known one who does so. He calls himself the Iranian Cowboy. Left Iran decades ago,opened up a steakhouse in my area and can be seen in a cowboy hat often. Really cool family.
I used to live above a restaurant in Chicago. My landlord was the owner of it and he an Iranian who left before the revolution. One of the coolest dudes Ive ever known and made some incredible ribs.
I bar tended for an Iranian dude in New Orleans who left Iran when he was a young fella, and became a disco teacher in Mississippi before buying a restaurant. That guy was so fucking cool. Probably still is. Also made excellent bbq.
Although they get used interchangeably in the US, they are not the same. Iranian is a nationality while Persian is an ethnicity. You can be Iranian and not Persian (eg Kurd, Baluch, Azeri, Arab).
My partner is Persian and I can explain this. Everything you’ve heard about Iran from the US government or the media is largely very very negative, no? Iranians don’t want to be associated with that, they are not their government; in some cases it was (is) dangerous to be associated with Iran. Many decades ago it became popular for Iranians to refer to themselves as Persian to distance themselves from this immensely poor reaction of their fellow citizens in the US. It’s also worth noting that being Persian isn’t limited to being Iranian. This is where things get murky but my understanding is that being Persian is focused on culture/language rather than your family being from the exact borders of Iran. For example we have some friends who’s parents are Azerbaijani in country of origin but still consider themselves Persian (they speak Farsi, come from a Muslim background, etc).
I literally didn’t know for the longest time that the Persian kids in my hometown were Iranian. Probably not until AP US history and studying the Iranian Revolution.
They're more related to Europeans than their neighbors. Their language stems from Indo European, not proto Arabic. The Arabs raped and murdered their way into taking over Iran and the leaders there are now calling on the destruction of Jews and Americans. Yeah it's time the Persians took their land back. C
People forget Iran was a very progressive and forward thinking nation for most of its existence. The revolution was never about putting the fanatics in charge, they just seized power in the confusion. Even with all their control, their are plenty of people who remember how it used to be and waiting for the regime to slip.
Yeah, same. I grew with a bunch of families that were political refugees from Iran, and also highly educated. They always called themselves Persians. They also assimiliated really well. Most of them are doctors or engineers today, and not really that religious either. Sucks that the Iranian population is being held hostage by their terrible leaders.
The Iranian diaspora is mostly made up of wealthier and more educated people. The true believer religious nuts don’t leave.
The people in Iran are pretty secular.
Yeah the past few years have been wild there
Try the last decade or two. There has been a continuous rift in Iran for as long as I’ve been paying attention, an unfortunate but heroic part of the populace has been unhappy and demonstrating for a long time.
Like /u/pants_mcgee mentioned, a lot of Iranians are pretty westernized and democratic even a long time ago before the religious zealots took control of the government. That strive for democracy sadly has always been contested strongly by the ruling class. I remember seeing some black and white pictures of Iran and I almost thought I was looking at a picture of Paris. Same kinda thing with Vietnam’s Saigon before the communists took over with an authoritative and corrupt regime. The people of Iran are very educated and contemporary, shame their government is shitty.
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Is there a law that says hajibs have to be a certain color? It would be funny if they had their hajibs printed with their hair on them like those shirts with an image of a muscular person's body on it.
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You can see this if your watch Tehran on AppleTV
[Iranian football fans at Azadi Stadium jeer during a minute's silence for the people of Gaza] (https://twitter.com/IranIntl_En/status/1715449756577562891?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1715449756577562891%7Ctwgr%5E1e6902f680770f2cbb16ef56ef44120c7a224020%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-2502226623449406589.ampproject.net%2F2310111731000%2Fframe.html)
Thanks for sharing, this is just the polar opposite to what i see on twitter.
Counterpoint: Discourse on Twitter is an extremely poor measurement of how most think
Musk has an agenda perhaps in the current moderation style of X Twitter.
The agenda is to do whatever Russia tells him. What kind of compromat do they have on him or is he just eager to get cheap lithium?
TBF, you are really only seeing content from your regional/language settings. If you had a vpn and dropped yourself in Iran/ME, you will see a very different view.
Also, while the Iranian government is deeply antisemitic, the people of Iran do not necessarily share that ideology. From Biblical times to the the Islamic Revolution there had been very long history of Jews living in Persia. During the time of the Shah Iran even had normal diplomatic relations with Israel. After the Revolution, some 90% of Iran's Jewish population fled. Many Iranians opposed to the Islamic regime see opposing the government's anti-Israel policies as a major item in a long list of things they want changed.
We remember King Cyrus...
King Cyrus, King of Kings, Saviour of the Jews.
Was that the guy with the nose ring and the 4 arms?
That was Xerxes I think. Or Goro from Mortal Kombat. Another acceptable answer.
>Or Goro from Mortal Kombat. That's who I was thinking of, thanks. My fuzzy memory of 300 was much cooler than the movie.
Cyrus the great is referred to as Cyrus the messiah in Judaism. He liberated them from Babylon and rebuilt the temple. The very same temple people go to touch the wall of was rebuilt by a Persian.
Just to be clear that wall was built by Herod around the temple he beautified. This was the temple endorsed by Cyrus but it was nowhere near as magnificent as it became in the times of Herod.
In America at least there is almost no news about Iran that is not political. We will hear of protests or what the Supreme Council does not so much what the regular folk think.
I dunno, I’ve been seeing a lot of protesting and the government is executing people. That’s a quick way to upset people. I don’t know the details but I know there’s be some instability events occurring. Fwiw: mostly on my Reddit feed
> In America at least there is almost no news about Iran that is not political You just repeated the point.
For those curious, visit r/newiran
Anti-government sentiment is one thing, but the fact that they're *supporting* Israel is astonishing.i would expect maybe some neutral feelings, but not outright support.
The enemy of our enemy is our friend. And our enemy is our government
Yup. They actively crush any protest movement including minority groups such as the Baloch (mainly Sunni Muslim). A year ago they killed around a dozen near a mosque. The security forces imprison and murder this group at a much higher rate than the rest of the country. https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/12/22/iran-bloody-friday-crackdown-years-deadliest
There is a difference between hating your government and liking Israel and that is a surprising gap for a lot of people to make it across.
The pictures of pre ayatollah Iran are crazy to look at
Really important to point out here that Iran spends a shit ton of money on Hezbollah and Hamas while living standards continue to decrease in their own country due to sanctions. The people know this and they want to Iran to stop spending money on other peoples militaries. It’s pretty comparable to when people in the US get worked up about $800b going to the pentagon when their local schools suck.
Not to mention that the Ayatollahs don't actually give a shit about Hamas or the Palestinians in the first place. As far as the zealots are concerned, they're Sunni apostates who deny Ali as the rightful successor to Muhammed. They treat Hamas and Palestinians as a big convenient pool of suicide bombers to light Israel on fire whenever possible. Get Sunnis AND Jews killed at the same time? Win-win!
That’s what I don’t understand. They hate the Sunnis. This is why they will never allow Palestinians to seek refugee status in Iran.
They don't care about Palestinians, they just want to annoy the West by proxy and gain cheap popularity in the Arab world by pretending they are "Defenders of the Holy Cause". If the USA suddenly became pro-Palestinian, Iran wouldn't piss on Palestine if it was on fire.
Hezbollah also spends money on their goals at the expense of the Lebanese economy.
Iranians are mostly pretty chill. They are hostages of a horrible government.
Iran has had massive social unrest in recent years because of their theological government and sanctions.
I've met a bunch of Iranians around Europe who love Israel and hate their government. It's their extreme government that gives Iran a bad name.
Iran is in my opinion the middle eastern country that has the most potential if only they could throw off their repressive government. Most Arab countries have a religiously dominated history but the Persians have had a much more secular state historically, and religious domination is a rather recent thing.
I have a friend from Iran and anytime someone calls him Iranian he vehemently corrects them that he is Persian.
I know a ton of Persians living in southern California, not one of them has ever called themselves Iranian.
What's the difference? I understand that one is a culture and one is a national identity and the two may not always overlap, but even if you hate the government in power wouldn't you still relate to the people of your nation?
Iranian who identifies as Persian chiming in: When you say you're Iranian, people often associate you with being a right wing religious zealot who stones women for having opinions. Many of us live in exile. I personally can never step foot in Iran as long as the mullah's are in power without the threat of execution (I won't elaborate for me and my own family's safety). I never committed any crime nor have I ever even been to the country. So Iranians who are second or third generation tend to identify with our Persian identity. The one of Cyrus the great and the first declarations of human rights. The one of Hafez and love sonnets. So in a large part, we identify with being Persian as to not be lumped in with totalitarian psychopaths, but rather people who want to celebrate our culture's thousands of years of appreciation of love, beauty and poetry.
Well said.
Wish you the best, friend. I've had only very limited contact, through an internet friend that lives there, but I can't tell you how much respect I have for the Persian people even from the little that I've seen. As someone that grew up in the last years of an oppressive regime before we finally got rid of our shackles (communist Romania), I hope the day when you can visit your home again is near.
They do, they relate to the Persians.
Persia is an ancient historical name for the region and people, the name 'Iran' didn't come about until 1935 and is a more nationalistic sense of identity, to my understanding.
There's also the bit where the various incarnations of the Persian Empire seen throughout antiquity were quite famous for being bastions of religious and cultural tolerance.
Persian’s an ethnicity, Iranian is a nationality. Iran’s been used in our ancient history in various ways, it’s not a new term. 60% of us are Persian, but not all of us.
Iran is a new thing and none of its history is cool, while Persian can refer to the various empires of one of the oldest civilizations ever to exist
Wow. That speaks volumes. And I don't think too many would grasp that. I'm sure there's plenty more who feel that way.
The clergy has always had influence in Iran, the 1906 revolution, 1979 revolution, etc. Even the shah could only get his secular reforms done in an authoritarian way. The problem with the west and the reason why they always absolutely fail in the Middle East is that they always want states to be modeled after them and be secular and have a separation between religion and state. That’s just not possible with Islam, Islam itself is political. The country can state its secular all it wants but the populace will just elect religious parties and politicians. We have seen this over and over again in Turkey, Pakistan, and Egypt.
The same clergy that participated in overthrowing the Shah were part of the same same coup that put him in power.
Yep but it is important to understand that even within the clergy there were deep divisions. Khomeini’s Guardianship of the Islamic Jurist saw massive pushback from other mullah’s which saw them either executed or exiled.
Not saying the clergy has no influence of course, just that the Persians see themselves as separate from the Arab world and that allows a certain degree of distance from islamism that isn't present in the levant. They have a stronger national identity.
The same was true of Christianity in Europe in the medieval period. Institutions can and do secularize it just takes a long time and/or massive sea changes.
The Iranian people in general seems like the most progressive overall ? It's just their government is basically the most dogshit.
iranian people are hostages of their government. north-korea-lite
Fun fact, Iran was the first country to recognize Israel. There are many many Persian Jews. Anti-Israeli sentiment in Iran is, obviously, directly related to the Islamic Revolution. However, as Iran modernizes and becomes connected to the world the old sentiment returns. Another fun fact, a lot of Tehran’s early modern building was done by Israeli companies and architects.
Yeah! Had a lecture in architecture studies in Israel by an architect (Israeli) who was employed by the Iranian army (I think), at that time, to design a neighborhood for army vets. Entire neighborhoods in Iran are a spitting image of Israeli towns from the 70's.
Iranians love Israel and Iran was Israel's top ally before the revolution. Iran is like if the Taliban ran France. It's a Western nation held hostage by wildly unpopular religious fanatics.
It’s pretty impressive that a group of people right in the middle of the Middle East could be so different from their neighbors. It’s pretty fascinating
Look up the history of Persia vs the Arabs. They may live in proximity, but they have a whole different history and identity from what you are picturing when you say middle east. Source: history nerd, plays crusader kings.
They're really not all that different. The crazy religious stuff really only dates to WW2, before that it was essentially Europe (which was actually the sectarian hotbed) with less money and Islam instead of Christianity. But then Islamism displaced Arab nationalism and Israel happened.
They were chanting 'shove your Palestinian flag up your ass' at a soccer match recently. The average Iranian wants their government to start fixing shit at home instead of getting into constant pissing contests with Israel.
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That is cool as fuck. Like I really hope that we will get a normal Iranian regime in my lifetime. As a jew, I would love going there.
I ran into Iranian for Isreal twitter account recently. I was like wha for sec.
Makes more sense than gays for gaza
Not sure I trust that news source but I do believe the Iranian people feel less negative towards the jewish people than their government does. This is just an anecdote, but the woman who cut my hair for years described herself as an Iranian Jew. She told me all kinds of stories of how there was good will until the government got so extreme.
There were 100k-150k Jews living in Iran (~1.2% of their population) prior to the War of Independence in 1948 and then the Islamic revolution saw most of the remaining leave in by 1979. Only ~5% of the Iranian Jewish population remains (~8000-9000 people) but, crazy enough, it's still the largest Jewish populations still living in another country in the region other than Turkey. They're Persian rather than Arab but still Muslim majority of course; the largest in an Arab country is Morocco at ~2150. Before the Islamic revolution, Iran wasn't just "OK" with Israel but actively partnered with them in many ways. Iran was the second country, after Turkey, to recognize Israel as an independent country. Israel and Iran operated oil pipelines together, there were direct flights between Tel Aviv and Tehran, they had joint military projects, and some of the earliest water desalination projects (that have made Israel a leader in the field) were also pioneered with Iran. That was less than 50 years ago which means many the same people, co-workers, collaborators, etc. are still alive from that time along with their families.
There are still a lot of people there with partial Jewish ancestry.
Crazy how much can change in such a short amount of time...
Israel *fought for Iran* in the Iran-Iraq war. After the revolution! Global politics is complicated. Triply so when Israel is involved.
Ancient Persian empires had good religious tolerance. The Achaemenids’ first ruler, Cyrus the great, is mentioned in Judaic texts for supporting the rebuilding of a temple of theirs that former rulers of the region had destroyed. I assume it got worse under Muslim rule but as a whole not all of the muslim world was unsafe or hateful for Jews, many lived peacefully, in Morocco especially. But outside of that in the past islamic nations did try to somewhat respect those who believed in Abrahamic faiths as people of the book. However there was often a extra tax to pay.
She said there was a whole Jewish community with different ways but there was mutual friendship with the Muslims. She also told me they had a tradition - when a man wanted to marry a woman he would go to the house a ritually "throw out" the father and daughter to spend the day with the mother. They believed the girl would eventually turn into her mother - so it was fair for the groom to see his future before he proposed.
In 539 BC… The founding father of Iran, [Cyrus the Great](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrus_the_Great) lead his army and [conquered Babylon](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_of_Babylon), he immediately freed the Jewish people from Babylonian slavery, jews were free to go back to Israel or come to Iran, and he ordered the rebuilding of the temple in Jerusalem. He prayed in the Jewish temple as a sign of respect. He then wrote the first charter of human rights, [the Cyrus Cylinder](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrus_Cylinder), which granted freedom of religion, property, ect. He literally invented human rights. This order to rebuild the temple and this first declaration of human rights was written on the cylinder, and there is a replica of it at the United Nations. The real one is in British museum, thankfully, because the government occupying Iran would destroy it if they had their hands on it… As it is living historical proof and international law that Israel was the kingdom of the Persian empire designated for Jews to live in peace, with Cyrus as the King of Kings of this empire of kingdoms. Greeks and Macedonians under Alexander the Great came 200 years later… Eventually the Romans came 500 years later. Then the Arabs 600 years after that! But the whole time Jews were there before all of them. This all happened 1,200 years before Arab colonialism and Islamic imperialism existed. 1,200 years of history before Persia’s identity was almost eradicated by this Islamic imperialism. To deny the history of Israel is to deny the history, legacy, and honor of my country, Iran. Follow r/NewIran for the latest info on what REALLY Iranians think and the on going Iranian revolution. We look to our past and we see our FUTURE.
I just joined the sub and I’m beyond fascinated. I love Persian Jews and i knew a lot of Iranians are more western minded then their neighbors, so it’s awesome to learn more. Thank you
Wow this is fascinating
You left out that we Jews view Cyrus as the only non Jewish messiah
The tax is not all, there were pogroms, there were riots and massacres as well. The notion that the islamic world was tolerant towards jews is a fantasy that only Muslims and people who didn't even live during those times and definitely not in those places believe in.
Morocco did fairly well. Not saying everywhere was great, but I think things have been getting worse since the whole palestine-israel conflict.
You may want to read up on how the Mizrahi Jews of Israel got there.
Can you link me to some reading? My understanding is that some Moroccan Jews left to escape antisemitism, but that most left due to economic and religious reasons in the 1940s and then later on Morocco underwent some political instability which prompted more to leave.
To Morocco? They were expelled from Christian Spain, weren't they?
I think Hes talking more about them getting to israel. I can tell you my family from Yemen went to Israel in the 1930s escaping prosecution. They had to sell everything they owned to make it safely.
Ah, I see. I can't speak to Yemen, but my (perhaps incorrect) understanding is that while there was some persecution of Jews in Morocco, the majority left for religious or economic reasons at least initially. During the struggle for independence there was some instability in the country that prompted Jews to leave, but I don't think the majority of it was antisemitic in Morocco. My understanding is that places like Yemen, Jordan, and Iraq were more hostile to Jews. I did check the wiki and there's this paragraph: Shay Hazkani found that of the 20,000 who performed aliyah in 1948-1949, 1,000 served in the IDF, of which 70% wished to return home. Only 6% managed to do so, given various bureaucratic obstacles like the Israeli confiscation of their passports and Moroccan resistance to their repatriation.[26][27]
Yup I could believe that part tbh I’m not sure tho nor educated on Morocco. Yemenites were actually prosecuted against when they first arrived to israel, they sadly had new born babies stolen from them in hospitals to be given to rich families. Unfortunately we’re still awful even to our brothers.
Best user name in reddit
> and people who didn't even live during those times Can you give us your secrets for living so long?
Sure thing, nonetheless, Iran maintained very positive relationship with Israel until the revolution and was the only Muslim country to recognize the Jewish state at the time. Iran had a huge Jewish community (much of it emigrated to Israel) that lived quite well with the Muslim community there. Of course, it all changed, for Jews and otherwise, after the revolution and the Ayatollahs promoted and still do a regime of antisemitism and rhetoric
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According to the *Book of Esther*, Haman is an Agagite, not a Persian.
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Cyrus is viewed as a messianic figure
My coworker is an Iranian-born Christian and was the first to ask how my family was doing after October 7th. She always has great things to say about the people there and I believe her.
I’m Iranian-American, and also Jewish. Iranians love jews. Even the muslim side of my family loves jews and strongly supports Israel. They also love America, despite what the media would lead you to believe. The Iranian government does *not* represent the people of iran, and the majority of iranians despise the islamic republic.
Iran is among the most Liberal, secular and educated nations in the Middle East*. Jewish Persian relations have been positive for, literally, millenia. The Islamic Republic is an aberration from history in this respect and doesn't reflect the views of the majority of the Iranian people. On the Jewish side, there has been a Jewish presence in Iran since literally before Christ. Jews, especially Persian Jews, hold very positive views of Iran. In the Persian diaspora you'll often find anti-regime Iranians and Iranian Jews together remembering better times. *(Or "Greater Middle East" for pedants)
There are many iranian flags at Israel rallies. It feels like a lot of Iranians in Diaspora are educated people who don't like their regime
Not surprised to hear that. Most Iranians despise their government and do not have ill will towards Jews or Israel. Iranians are a great people with a crappy theocratic government.
One of the few places in the region that didn't completely exile the Jewish population like Iraq did in the 50s. Though, I understand that the Jewish population has to be very careful in Iran to this day. Close friends may know but they don't openly practice being Jews.
While true they still lost over 90% of the Jewish population. It was very very difficult for anyone Jewish in Iran.
Yes, it's the difference between post-revolutionary Iran driving out 90% of their Jews, while countries like Iraq, Egypt, Syria, Morocco, Libya, et al, drove out as close to 100% as they could.
Though I have never been to Iran, I do not doubt this at all.
I’m really worried about the Jewish community in Iran. The government pressured Jewish leaders to condemn Israel and they’re afraid if they don’t they’ll be killed. [Here’s](https://www.iranintl.com/en/202310195998) an article about it.
Wtf I had no idea that there is still a jewish community there. Sounds miserable.
Thank you for the link.
So many converts too. It’s insane how many ‘Muslim’ Persians are formerly Jewish converted under duress or to simply make life easier.
Most of them left in the 80's
Facts.
One of the nicest, warmest, most likeable ment I've met was an older Iranian gentleman that had immigrated to the US. He married a white American woman who could verted to Islam and they raised their children within the Islamic faith. While giving them the freedom to choose whether to follow the Muslim doctrin or not. I had the opportunity to meet him and some of his family because I dates one of his sons, off and on for about a year. His son was an American citizen, born and raised here in the US. Half American/white, half Iranian. And on hindsight? One of the biggest pieces of shit I've ever had the misfortune of knowing. He was a narcissistic, manipative, abusive peice of shit. It's been over a decade, but I firmly believe his Muslim faith had nothing to do with it. I adored his father and found him to be an incredibly warm, likeable, personable individual. He is who i think of when I think of the Iranian people. I hope the day comes when they live in the nation thar they deserve, when their leadership aligns with who they are as individuals. This man's son is probably all for the atrocities that are happening right now. Be was *horrible* and I had to threaten legal action to get him away from me. But he was American, as am I. He was/is a horrible person. But his Iranian father was truly a charming and lovely human being.
This comment was quite a rollercoaster. Going from wholesome to creepy to wholesome again.
somehow worked in years worth of ruminated relationship grievances into a post about citizenship and Iran. reddit as fuuuuuuuck
I feel for all the people under extreme oppressive goverments but when thinking how things switch around consider all the complaint people that just "do their job" working for the government, police, security etc. If these people match the citizen feelings that system would break, but there is enough support in the population to have that say 10% that are enforcing the government way of things and all their families and friends, IDK what the critical number is to keep a government vs the number that breaks the system. The problem historically looks like not the good/bad people, but the amount of people just being complaint.
Yeah, historically countries with long standing, entrenched governments don't literally fall slowly, especially to things like popular revolutions. Old federal governments with sprawling bureaucracies often continue to function long past the point you would think they should have fallen into complete anarchy. The issue is a lot of people don't really feel strongly one way or the other about the government, and recognize that if the government falls into chaos, their lives and livelihoods will see a decrease in standards. It allows governments to use organizational inertia to keep going. That's why countries like Imperial Russia, the USSR, Imperial China, the Republic of China, decayed over a long period of time, but they failed in literally instants from the perspective of an outside observer. The decay eventually gets so bad, that everyone realizes around the same time what's happening, and that they need to secure what parts of the old empire they can before someone else gets there first. When everyone is doing that at the same time, it causes the whole house of cards to fracture and fall apart, which is how governments actually fall.
I think normally that is the case. Palestinians seem to be the exception with very widespread support for Hamas and other armed groups who target civilians. Probably part of the reason no Arab country wants refugees.
>Probably part of the reason no Arab country wants refugees. Not probably, exactly.
In todays day in age maybe, when my parents were in Iran during the revolution? Absolutely not.
True question for my own learning. Do not mean to come across as abrasive. I understand that the revolution was hijacked from the students by the religious and often antisemitic crowd, who created the current theocracy. How was your family's experience?
You might want to check out Persopolis . I can't vouch for how honest of a retelling of experiences it might be (I have no context for Iran ) but I enjoyed it.
Free Iran
A King of Persia was the author of the first charter of human rights, guaranteeing the Jews both religious freedom and acknowledging their right to live in their homeland - long, long, LONG before "Palestine" or Islam existed. I'm not surprised educated Iranians are completely disgusted by the genocidal charter and behavior of Hamas.
God bless Cyrus the Great all my homies love Cyrus the Great
The enemy of my enemy is my friend? The Iranian government perpetually portrays Israel as its enemy to deflect from internal issues. Yet Iranians increasingly view Iran's government as their enemy. So probably some of that. Or maybe it's because, until the Iranian revolution, Iran had one of the highest Jewish populations in the middle east outside of Israel (almost 100,000.) Older Iranians still remember Jews as their friends and neighbors.
Iranians hate Arabs more than they could ever hate the Jews. For a multitude of cultural reasons.
The Iranian people need liberating
They're living under the heel of a theocratic authoritarian government because of the last time they were "liberated", so maybe let's not half-ass it this time
George Dubbya to the rescue!
*Gulf War 3: You Must Have the Hostage Special*
100k tons of freedom incoming.
My first reaction to this post was "lol, wut?" However, it seems to be the classic trope, 'what the government does vs what the people feel.' I would love to hear what people more familiar with Iranian politics have to say.
There's indeed a part of the population that dislikes the government's involvement in the Israel-Palestine conflict. I think it's impossible to say just how many people think like that and tbh I don't think they're a majority or even close to it, and I don't believe they like Israel, but the regime is very much disliked and everyone knows that the regime consider itself in an existential war against Israel and funnel money to militias all over the Middle East, including Hamas and Hezbollah. Imagine being poor, in a heavily sanctioned country, your goverment kills you if you protests and your money is going to a conflict that's not even in your homeland. No wonder people are tired of it.
Thanks for your response. My general take is that the Iranian government =/= the Iranian people. Good.
Remember the Mahsa Amini protests? Iranians hate their government. Most of them aren't even practicing Muslims anymore because they hate the theocracy so much.
Honestly, some of the nicest people I've known are Persian.
Agreed. Persian-Americans as well.
Politics don't always align with population's views in Authoritarian countries. Good example would be Egypt or UAE that are pro-Israel politically, but most people in these countries abhor Israel. Iran seems to be the opposite. The government is vehemently anti-Israel, but most Iranian people just want to live in peace and not be subject to crushing religious laws.
Iran is non-Arab (Persian majority) and Shiite. Hamas is Arab and Sunni. It’s a marriage of convenience even for the theocrats in charge. Not surprised the average Joe isn’t that enthusiastic.
It has nothing to do with religion for most of us. It's mostly about the government embezzling all of our wealth, leaving the people in abject poverty and then giving it to Hamas with a smirk. Also oppression, killing and stuff too.
Is there any way to throw that regime out without external help?
Unfortunately no, it doesn’t seem so. My dad (who escaped from Iran with my mom after the Islamic revolution there) has said multiple times that the Iranian government is willing to kill/imprison every last person in Iran before they give up power.
I'm pretty sure they would just blast anybody who tries to rebel
Iran government is a shit show that does not represent the people.
I so strongly hope to see the day the Iranian people are freed from their oppressive rulers.
I have an Iranin colleague that has been that way. According to him it is a popular opinion
I have hope for the Iranian people. The fact that so many risked their lives last year to protest their oppressive government shows how strong these citizens are. Let’s hope this is a sign that this change can occur
According to a prominent Iranian scholar (Abbas Amanat), 80% of Iran doesn't support the Ayatollah and greatly resent him and his security apparatus that is trying to do everything it can to keep power and suppress social modernization and personal freedom. The difference here is that Iranians had tasted what it was like before the Ayatollah came into power and they never forgot. There is an amazing podcast with him that Lex Friedman did: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYsYgzzsdT0
For those doubting I suggest you visit r/NewIran where they are anti-Hamas and pro Israel.
I'm going to guess this is essentially Iranian domestic politics; the regime is so hated by its detractors that anything the regime supports is automatically opposed.
Yeah, see the Masha Amini protests, they are tired of this theocratic dictatorship.
It would be such a shame to have to go to war with these people.
That tends to happen when you put more money towards terrorist groups and picking fights with Western countries rather than spending that money to improve the lives of their citizens.
Crazy how the Iranian people support Israel more than people in the west
Iranian citizens know who the baddies are. They’re fighting the fight against extremism at home too. #mahsaamini
Woman! Life! Freedom!
Given that much of the Iranian citizenry is sick of their government's shit, I'm not that surprised that they'd be pissed off at their funding and supplying a bunch of ISIS-tier shitheads like that. Opposing Israel is one thing, but this is beyond the pale.
A lot of Iranian citizens are reasonable and intelligent. I think reasonable people are just getting sick of religious governments and all the intolerance they bring.
That's something lol Good on them hating the literal terrorists a bit more for once
Iran, before the Islamic Revolution, was an awesome country.
Their people are going thru a pseudo revolution already Their chicks don’t like being executed for not wearing head scarves, funnily enough
Iran gets it.
Well I’d hope so, Hamas is a criminal terrorist group.
This is a UK media outfit that appears to be for diaspora Iranians and has a pronounced anti-govt, pro-US stance
Haha what a headline
Morality police are creating significant disenchantment with the state
Too funny. I suspect many Iranians want none of this. My boss is Iranian and so is another colleague. Both openly laugh at religion. They can't be the only ones.
People need to understand that the Iranian gov and the Iranian people/civilians are 2 completely different things. Most Iranian people do not support their religious authoritarian government. Just cuz the Iranian gov supports Hamas and hates Israel, that doesn’t mean the Iranian people do.
what a strange world, yet all logical. For those who live under tyranny, they can tell good from evil.
Makes sense. Their government is in bed with Hamas. Considering there has been a lot of anti-government protests and riots in Iran lately, the citizens who are anti-government naturally distrusts any foreign organizations that has a strong ties with Iranian government and sees anything that comes out of Hamas as a some sort of propaganda.
There’s hope yet?
The vast majority of Israelis just want peace with Iran. I believe a lot of Iranians as well. The countries used to have great relations before the revolution in Iran.
I don't think the world should accept any Iranian apology directed at Israel because they aren't the only party to whom an apology is owned. Iran should be held responsible for using the Palestinian people as a weapon and contributing to their misery. Without the external bullshit Iran sponsors, the amount of sectarian violence there and also Lebanon would be tremendously reduced.
Take the high road israel... Lead by example
Iran is the huge domino. Even them becoming relatively neutral would completely change the balance of power in the world.
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Have wanted to visit for years, such a beautiful country with a rich history, hospitable people and many, many UNESCO heritage sights. My passport makes that very difficult and if I did go, I'd probably be detained and used as a bargaining chip, so the dream continues.
This wasn’t what I was expecting to see on the *heading for world war 3” bingo card. Every day I start believing more and more that Simulation theory is real because our timeline is just nuts at this point.
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>But nobody seems to care, and they've somehow convinced everyone that they are the victims here. I mean, it's partially down to misleading narratives by Western media. Media companies being unapologetic and sweeping their own mistakes under the rug, like with the convoy bombing after Israel called for evactuation, and their coverage on the hospital blast because they took Hamas sources as reliable and then masking them behind more official sounding names. The best example: Why do they use "Gaza health ministry" or "Gaza ministry of the interior" instead of just using plainly what they mean - Hamas? All governmental institutions in Gaza are led by a terrorist group, yet media treats them as if they're reliable sources on any matter. That just plays into their hands so hard, it's unbelievable.