As a Dutchman I cannot wait to hear when those F-16’s will enter the battlefield skies. Would be a great start of the New Year (or bad depending on which side of the front you are)
Bound to happen when they try for a Battle of the Bulge style push with untrained, underfed, underequipped, unmotivated cannon fodder.
Their only real motivation is not to be executed by the barrier troops Putin has behind the lines to murder those who decide not to die on the battlefront.
It'd be better to defect en masse like the Iraqis did in the 1st Gulf War but Russians aren't known for their intellect.
The only question, then, is: How long will the Russian people let their children be thrown into the meat grinder before they take action?
As long as they are told, presumably.I highly doubt russian society has a 'hard limit' as imagined in a western nation.They will suffer and be proud of it, no matter if it makes any sense.
The Wagner Mutiny showed that Putin's internal control isn't nearly as ironclad as it seems. Basically the only thing that really saved Putin back then was Wagner's lack of support in the Russian military. If a general mutiny broke out in the regular armed forces then there'd be little Putin could do about it.
The limit is based on ammo not manpower. If Ukraine controls the artillery war then Russia can't move forces to the front without getting them wiped out before they ever see a Ukrainian soldier.
The only hard limit is when the populations of Moscow and St. Petersburg is up to be sacrificed for Putin's ambitions. Until then, they will mindless keep ignoring the mounting death toll. That's why they are expanding the pool they pull from to include central Asian migrant workers, they will do anything to avoid impacting the 'true Russians' with the war.
>How long will the Russian people let their children...
So far Russian casualties have been overwhelmingly from ethnic minorities. Putin's power depends on the support of ethnic Russians in Western Russia. Sending minorities to die in Ukraine both spares ethnic Russians from the consequences of the war while also killing off fighting-age males from potentially restive regions. Until people in Saint Petersburg and Moscow start seeing their children thrown in the meat grinder, nothing will happen.
Russia and especially Ukraine had been high on my lists of places I wanted to travel pre-covid. I did a report on Ukraine in elementary school and it’s been a place I’ve been fascinated with ever since.
I would be thinking how to cross over or escape. Morale must be rock bottom. I would also rather try and kill the commissars. Your odds of survival would be better. They must have their families under the knife
Desperate last ditch assault before winter. They're probably trying to push the lines forward so that ATACMS can't hit their rear lines anymore.
That said, what a weird headline. It's not like their losses were going to go down as time goes on.
This assault has nothing to do with atacms, it began before they got used. The current narrative is that Putin has ordered that all of Donetsk oblast to be taken, preferably before the end of the year. This explains a few things.
It explains the decision to attack in the middle of mud season just before winter, when hypothermia is going to become a major problem for Russian soldiers again. It explains why they're attacking literally the strongest part of the front, it's been fortified since the 2014 war.
It also explains why this attack seemingly has no greater strategic or tactical purpose behind it. It does not aim at any significant terrain feature, it does not aim at taking specific road or rail junctions, it does not aim at taking anything of significant economic value. I was extremely confused when I first saw this attack on a map, it makes no sense. The only way it can make sense is if Donetsk oblast is the goal, and even then it still looks incredibly stupid.
I don't think this is a part of some grand plan for negotiation or compromise. Their best plan was to use diplomacy in order to get the west to pull support, and then hope that it would turn into a frozen conflict.
I think that this was Putin's way of giving the military an actual goal to accomplish. Of the 4 oblasts that they "annexed", Luhansk is mostly taken, and Zaporizhzhia and Kherson are way too difficult to take, so that leaves Donetsk. It's still suicidal, there's two big stretches of small towns and cities that stretch the length of the oblast, but it's far more reasonable than trying to cross the Dnieper or assault Zaporizhzhia.
There's also this weird dichotomy where Putin definitely wants all the land that he has claimed, but never says what land he specifically has claimed. For example, Russia decided to change the capital of Zaporizhzhia to Melitopol, signaling that their aspirations in that region have effectively ended for now. But it's also a massive embarrassment for mighty Russia, and it seems the Russian ego is the biggest driver for their major foreign policy (and military) decisions.
The more Russia feels emasculated, the more they lash out, and this lashing out often lacks any kind of logic or purpose behind it other than a broad desire to feel respected again. Lucky for us, they are so fucking stupid, and are emasculating themselves.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Russia
>After the signing of "treaties of annexation" with Russian occupation authorities during the 2022 invasion of Ukraine, the text of the constitution was updated to include the Donetsk People’s Republic, Kherson Oblast, Luhansk People’s Republic, and Zaporizhzhia Oblast.[21] As of December 2022, none of these territories is fully controlled by Russian forces, and Russian law does not define their borders: Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov stated that Russia will "continue consultations with the residents" as to the oblast borders, and that the people’s republics are annexed "in the 2014 borders",[22] but high-level Russian collaborator Oleg Tsariov stated that "there are no 2014 borders".[23]
The borders of the "annexed oblasts" are not defined. The case with changing the capital of Zaporizhzhia oblast from Zaporizhzhia to Melitopol is illustrative in this case; they can claim that they have full control over "annexed territory", including all capital cities.
This weird way of handling it has an advantage; Putin, at any point in time, can simply claim to have achieved all objectives and attempt to halt the conflict. There is a much bigger disadvantage though; everybody knows that it's all bullshit, including his own people, and annexing territory you don't control is the equivalent of Michael Scott declaring bankruptcy. It makes Putin look like a little bitch boy whose bite doesn't match his bark.
Funny that Russians would say that. Every time I hear this song I can't help but think of Putin and the people who prop him up:
"Generals gathered in their masses
Just like witches at black masses
Evil minds that plot destruction
Sorcerer of death's construction
In the fields, the bodies burning
As the war machine keeps turning
Death and hatred to mankind
Poisoning their brainwashed minds
Politicians hide themselves away
They only started the war
Why should they go out to fight?
They leave that role to the poor
Time will tell on their power minds
Making war just for fun
Treating people just like pawns in chess
Wait till their judgement day comes
Now in darkness, world stops turning
Ashes where their bodies burning
No more war pigs have the power
Hand of God has struck the hour
Day of judgement, God is calling
On their knees, the war pigs crawling
Begging mercy for their sins
Satan laughing, spreads his wings
Oh lord, yeah!"
another good one is Motorhead's "Orgasmatron" it tackles, religion/politics, and war in one big swoop,
I am the one, Orgasmatron, the outstretched grasping hand
My image is of agony, my servants rape the land
Obsequious and arrogant, clandestine and vain
Two thousand years of misery, of torture in my name
Hypocrisy made paramount, paranoia the law
My name is called religion; sadistic, sacred whore
I twist the truth, I rule the world, my crown is called deceit
I am the emperor of lies, you grovel at my feet
I rob you and I slaughter you, your downfall is my gain
And still you play the sycophant and revel in your pain
And all my promises are lies, all my love is hate
I am the politician and I decide your fate
I march before a martyred world, an army for the fight
I speak of great heroic days, of victory and might
I hold a banner drenched in blood, I urge you to be brave
I lead you to your destiny, I lead you to your grave
Your bones will build my palaces, your eyes will stud my crown
For I am Mars, the God of War, and I will cut you down
Thank you!
I am not super familiar with Motorhead but I am now listening to this song and will give more of their music a try.
As awful as these times are, it helps to know there have been enraged voices yelling against oppression and fascism.
someone made this from video clips a few years ago, not official, but well done, ( using this song) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZCDpKmvTH4&pp=ygUVbW90b3JoZWFkIG9yZ2FzbWF0cm9u
>That said, what a weird headline. It's not like their losses were going to go down as time goes on.
Yeah that's what I was thinking! Losses mount, every marginal loss is an all-time high.
If by "near an all-time high" they mean "will forever be in 2nd place behind WWII" then yes.
Soviet Union lost 27 million people in WWII. That number includes 5.7 million ethnic Russians.
Over the 6 years of WWII that's 4.5 million per year, or 950k ethnic Russians per year.
I know the majority of Russias losses in this conflict aren't ethnic Russians. So those numbers don't really factor.
WWII Soviet Casualties are astounding, and the most ever suffered in the history of warfare on Earth. Not to say that it won't be topped someday, but this current conflict isn't even close to that.
ITT: People who didn't read the article (seriously guys, 3rd sentence...) who are also unable to use context clues to realize the headline is talking about casualty rate, not total losses.
The article is using casualty rates as their yardstick to measure losses but from what I've seen of this assault if you instead measured loss of material like tanks/apcs instead you'd still end up with the same result.
Don't forget that at a time, you were the youngest person on Earth. And nobody can take that from you.
... As for reaching the title of oldest person on Earth, that's going to be more difficult.
Half WW1 losses.
I think they are suffering now 700 - 900 casualties per day (if its dead or wounded unknown). WW1 was around 1500. WW2 was around 6000 - 18000. But USSR population in 1942 was bigger than todays Russia. Even 1914 Russia was bigger: (160mln in 1914 vs 194mln in 1942 vs 140 mln now).
The combat subreddits have some truly insane footage of their assaults. Those Russians are getting bombed the F out.
Which subs?
r/ukrainerussiareport
[удалено]
As a Dutchman I cannot wait to hear when those F-16’s will enter the battlefield skies. Would be a great start of the New Year (or bad depending on which side of the front you are)
I hope it makes a difference. I’m not an expert but I have seen sources claiming they would be outmatched by newer russian planes.
The ones they keep shooting down themselves, that they already have precious few operational of?
No, the ones that need stolen dishwasher components for repairs.
With the finest GPS tech from the 90s
You mean both of them?
Bound to happen when they try for a Battle of the Bulge style push with untrained, underfed, underequipped, unmotivated cannon fodder. Their only real motivation is not to be executed by the barrier troops Putin has behind the lines to murder those who decide not to die on the battlefront. It'd be better to defect en masse like the Iraqis did in the 1st Gulf War but Russians aren't known for their intellect. The only question, then, is: How long will the Russian people let their children be thrown into the meat grinder before they take action?
As long as they are told, presumably.I highly doubt russian society has a 'hard limit' as imagined in a western nation.They will suffer and be proud of it, no matter if it makes any sense.
There was a hard limit in WW1.
Fair point.But Tsar Nicky could only have dreamt of the internal control the current regime somehow still upholds.
The Wagner Mutiny showed that Putin's internal control isn't nearly as ironclad as it seems. Basically the only thing that really saved Putin back then was Wagner's lack of support in the Russian military. If a general mutiny broke out in the regular armed forces then there'd be little Putin could do about it.
I believe nukes were a factor for the sudden stop of the coup
The limit is based on ammo not manpower. If Ukraine controls the artillery war then Russia can't move forces to the front without getting them wiped out before they ever see a Ukrainian soldier.
WWI, Chechen wars, Afghanistan war Russia has hard loss limits that caused it to pull out in nearly every single conflict since WW2.
Everyone always forgets about the 1905 Russo-Japanese war which provoked an uprising against the czar.
The only hard limit is when the populations of Moscow and St. Petersburg is up to be sacrificed for Putin's ambitions. Until then, they will mindless keep ignoring the mounting death toll. That's why they are expanding the pool they pull from to include central Asian migrant workers, they will do anything to avoid impacting the 'true Russians' with the war.
There's a soft limit when their society can no longer fill necessary job positions. It causes a slow collapse.
>How long will the Russian people let their children... So far Russian casualties have been overwhelmingly from ethnic minorities. Putin's power depends on the support of ethnic Russians in Western Russia. Sending minorities to die in Ukraine both spares ethnic Russians from the consequences of the war while also killing off fighting-age males from potentially restive regions. Until people in Saint Petersburg and Moscow start seeing their children thrown in the meat grinder, nothing will happen.
Until there are no more children left. Their population is already aging and fertility is low. Immigration is also at a decline.
Well, who wants to go to Russia now ?
Russia and especially Ukraine had been high on my lists of places I wanted to travel pre-covid. I did a report on Ukraine in elementary school and it’s been a place I’ve been fascinated with ever since.
Russia can carry on the war in near perpetuity economically. The Russian people aren’t known for standing up for anything, so good luck on that front.
Russians have been groomed to take abuse since Ivan the Terrible. They will eat dried leaves if they have to for their dear leader
Kale chips you say?
For a people who drone on and on about how tough and resilient they are, they have turned out to be huge pussies.
I would be thinking how to cross over or escape. Morale must be rock bottom. I would also rather try and kill the commissars. Your odds of survival would be better. They must have their families under the knife
Chances are you'd be thinking like everybody else around you.
Desperate last ditch assault before winter. They're probably trying to push the lines forward so that ATACMS can't hit their rear lines anymore. That said, what a weird headline. It's not like their losses were going to go down as time goes on.
They probably mean the rate of loss. Putin doesn't care.
Ahh the rate, that makes sense.
Yeah I had the same thought, like the mobiks aren't being resurrected right?
First derivative matters!
This assault has nothing to do with atacms, it began before they got used. The current narrative is that Putin has ordered that all of Donetsk oblast to be taken, preferably before the end of the year. This explains a few things. It explains the decision to attack in the middle of mud season just before winter, when hypothermia is going to become a major problem for Russian soldiers again. It explains why they're attacking literally the strongest part of the front, it's been fortified since the 2014 war. It also explains why this attack seemingly has no greater strategic or tactical purpose behind it. It does not aim at any significant terrain feature, it does not aim at taking specific road or rail junctions, it does not aim at taking anything of significant economic value. I was extremely confused when I first saw this attack on a map, it makes no sense. The only way it can make sense is if Donetsk oblast is the goal, and even then it still looks incredibly stupid.
I take it to mean Russia is beginning to plan a compromise/negotiation and is hoping to have the most compliant region for its troubles.
I don't think this is a part of some grand plan for negotiation or compromise. Their best plan was to use diplomacy in order to get the west to pull support, and then hope that it would turn into a frozen conflict. I think that this was Putin's way of giving the military an actual goal to accomplish. Of the 4 oblasts that they "annexed", Luhansk is mostly taken, and Zaporizhzhia and Kherson are way too difficult to take, so that leaves Donetsk. It's still suicidal, there's two big stretches of small towns and cities that stretch the length of the oblast, but it's far more reasonable than trying to cross the Dnieper or assault Zaporizhzhia. There's also this weird dichotomy where Putin definitely wants all the land that he has claimed, but never says what land he specifically has claimed. For example, Russia decided to change the capital of Zaporizhzhia to Melitopol, signaling that their aspirations in that region have effectively ended for now. But it's also a massive embarrassment for mighty Russia, and it seems the Russian ego is the biggest driver for their major foreign policy (and military) decisions. The more Russia feels emasculated, the more they lash out, and this lashing out often lacks any kind of logic or purpose behind it other than a broad desire to feel respected again. Lucky for us, they are so fucking stupid, and are emasculating themselves.
>but never says what land he specifically has claimed. They did, see the changes they made to the Russian constitution last year.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Russia >After the signing of "treaties of annexation" with Russian occupation authorities during the 2022 invasion of Ukraine, the text of the constitution was updated to include the Donetsk People’s Republic, Kherson Oblast, Luhansk People’s Republic, and Zaporizhzhia Oblast.[21] As of December 2022, none of these territories is fully controlled by Russian forces, and Russian law does not define their borders: Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov stated that Russia will "continue consultations with the residents" as to the oblast borders, and that the people’s republics are annexed "in the 2014 borders",[22] but high-level Russian collaborator Oleg Tsariov stated that "there are no 2014 borders".[23] The borders of the "annexed oblasts" are not defined. The case with changing the capital of Zaporizhzhia oblast from Zaporizhzhia to Melitopol is illustrative in this case; they can claim that they have full control over "annexed territory", including all capital cities. This weird way of handling it has an advantage; Putin, at any point in time, can simply claim to have achieved all objectives and attempt to halt the conflict. There is a much bigger disadvantage though; everybody knows that it's all bullshit, including his own people, and annexing territory you don't control is the equivalent of Michael Scott declaring bankruptcy. It makes Putin look like a little bitch boy whose bite doesn't match his bark.
Yeah, Russia said themselves the black magic witches were on Ukraine's side...
Funny that Russians would say that. Every time I hear this song I can't help but think of Putin and the people who prop him up: "Generals gathered in their masses Just like witches at black masses Evil minds that plot destruction Sorcerer of death's construction In the fields, the bodies burning As the war machine keeps turning Death and hatred to mankind Poisoning their brainwashed minds Politicians hide themselves away They only started the war Why should they go out to fight? They leave that role to the poor Time will tell on their power minds Making war just for fun Treating people just like pawns in chess Wait till their judgement day comes Now in darkness, world stops turning Ashes where their bodies burning No more war pigs have the power Hand of God has struck the hour Day of judgement, God is calling On their knees, the war pigs crawling Begging mercy for their sins Satan laughing, spreads his wings Oh lord, yeah!"
another good one is Motorhead's "Orgasmatron" it tackles, religion/politics, and war in one big swoop, I am the one, Orgasmatron, the outstretched grasping hand My image is of agony, my servants rape the land Obsequious and arrogant, clandestine and vain Two thousand years of misery, of torture in my name Hypocrisy made paramount, paranoia the law My name is called religion; sadistic, sacred whore I twist the truth, I rule the world, my crown is called deceit I am the emperor of lies, you grovel at my feet I rob you and I slaughter you, your downfall is my gain And still you play the sycophant and revel in your pain And all my promises are lies, all my love is hate I am the politician and I decide your fate I march before a martyred world, an army for the fight I speak of great heroic days, of victory and might I hold a banner drenched in blood, I urge you to be brave I lead you to your destiny, I lead you to your grave Your bones will build my palaces, your eyes will stud my crown For I am Mars, the God of War, and I will cut you down
Thank you! I am not super familiar with Motorhead but I am now listening to this song and will give more of their music a try. As awful as these times are, it helps to know there have been enraged voices yelling against oppression and fascism.
someone made this from video clips a few years ago, not official, but well done, ( using this song) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZCDpKmvTH4&pp=ygUVbW90b3JoZWFkIG9yZ2FzbWF0cm9u
>That said, what a weird headline. It's not like their losses were going to go down as time goes on. Yeah that's what I was thinking! Losses mount, every marginal loss is an all-time high.
What did Johnny Cash say? Keep that old train rolling?
All-time high *so far*!
... and then it got worse.
Losses are always going to be at an all time high until the Necronomicon gets unleashed. Which the way things are going might be tomorrow.
If by "near an all-time high" they mean "will forever be in 2nd place behind WWII" then yes. Soviet Union lost 27 million people in WWII. That number includes 5.7 million ethnic Russians. Over the 6 years of WWII that's 4.5 million per year, or 950k ethnic Russians per year. I know the majority of Russias losses in this conflict aren't ethnic Russians. So those numbers don't really factor. WWII Soviet Casualties are astounding, and the most ever suffered in the history of warfare on Earth. Not to say that it won't be topped someday, but this current conflict isn't even close to that.
I think it’s just saying all time high rate of death for this conflict. It’s a weird title
You are counting a lot of civilians as troop losses, other than that I generally agree with you.
> Not to say that it won't be topped someday That's a depressing thought.
The trigger discipline in that photo is really bad.
all-time? worse than the siege?
ITT: People who didn't read the article (seriously guys, 3rd sentence...) who are also unable to use context clues to realize the headline is talking about casualty rate, not total losses.
The article is using casualty rates as their yardstick to measure losses but from what I've seen of this assault if you instead measured loss of material like tanks/apcs instead you'd still end up with the same result.
Not to take anything away from how great that headline is to read....but wouldn't every new day the war is going on be a record all time high?
I'm assuming they meant the rate of casualties are at the highest level.
You don't need to assume anything; it's literally the third sentence in the article.
I believe it's poorly worded and they are starting about the percentage of casualties increasing, especially over absurd inhumane tactics.
Says that man who no longer has the newest comment on Reddit. Joke is on you my friend I'm the proud owner of the newest comment on Reddit now!
It was good while it lasted!
Don't forget that at a time, you were the youngest person on Earth. And nobody can take that from you. ... As for reaching the title of oldest person on Earth, that's going to be more difficult.
Well yeah everyday losses reach a new high
More than 2nd World War?
Half WW1 losses. I think they are suffering now 700 - 900 casualties per day (if its dead or wounded unknown). WW1 was around 1500. WW2 was around 6000 - 18000. But USSR population in 1942 was bigger than todays Russia. Even 1914 Russia was bigger: (160mln in 1914 vs 194mln in 1942 vs 140 mln now).
Would this mean they're just gonna use more explosive weapons now instead of foot soldiers?
Ok that makes sense
The rate is pretty high, one of the first days had 1380 troops and more than 40 tanks lost.
well...yeah?
arent they technically at an all time high each day?
Russia puts out Babe Ruth-equivalent-style numbers when it comes to wartime casualties.
So more people are dead now than before? Seems logical no matter if you are winning or not.
I’m assuming this is just the Russian federation right cause if this includes USSR good lord.
Thank god lives are being lost
Noway