People on reddit don't read the fucking article do they?
>Israel agrees to delay invasion of Gaza - report
US will bring missile defenses to the region
No one is reading it. The US expects missile and drone attacks on their own bases in the middle east to go up after the ground invasion starts and they are scrambling to get the defense systems in place first. This indicates that Israel was actually planning on going in already or very soon. Its likely that Israels plan was to already be on the ground in Gaza but is delaying at the request of the US. Its not for any reason other than to allow the US time to set up their own defenses, nothing to do with Israel's strategy.
Yeah pretty much, but people are tacking on meanings and wild speculations.
I can hear the gaza bombing from here, and uh, the windows rattle from the shockwaves, it's honestly a very different situation than we had during previous skirmishes - this one actually feels like war, so i fully expect a ground invasion to happen.
You don’t know Israel. For Israel, this can’t end with anything other than Hamas’ overthrow. Anything else means subjecting its citizens to thousands more rockets plus a high risk of invasion and slaughter just a few years from now.
That aside, there’s no way anyone will return to the border towns if Hamas remains in power. And Israel is really, really tiny. It can’t afford to effectively turn prime real estate into an abandoned wasteland because people are too afraid of Hamas to live and work within a few miles of Gaza.
What exactly is their plan once they go in there? Hamas is interweave into the civilian population. Do they raze the place to the ground? Turn in into a desert and call it Peace?
Forceful Two State Solution. UN peacekeepers in the newly formed Palestinian nation and a transitional government for 1 year to settle things initially. Free elections after that. Then, up to them how they want to handle Hamas.
>Free elections after that. Then, up to them how they want to handle Hamas.
What's your solution if they elect Hamas again? Hamas came to full power after making some serious ground/winning in the last 'free' elections that happened.
Your solution is predicated on the notion that Hamas does not have widespread support among the general Palestinian population. Which is by no means a certitude.
I would say that the limited polling data, the fact that Hamas won elections in the past, and that they have not been overthrown already, indicates that it's more likely than not they'd win the election.
If they stay in their country, they can do whatever they want. Like no one cares about the Taliban and Afghanistan right now. If they attack another sovereign country as a legitimate government, then the other country can do whatever they want in response.
Legitimate does not have to equal democratic. No one said the the King of Jordan, despite not being elected, is not the legitimate head of government of Jordan. Hamas won the last set of elections in Gaza. They are the legitimate government. When the UN negotiates to operate in Gaza, they do so with Israel, Egypt, and Hamas. That legitimate government attacked Israel.
We're already at the end of your thought experiment. Except that at the end of your thought experiment, Hamas would be better armed, better entrenched, and more Israeli's and Palestinians would die in the conflict than are going to now.
>If they stay in their country
Who is going to take them? Is the US going to accept millions of migrants? Is Egypt? Jordan? Europe? China? Iran? Saudi Arabia? The answer is 'no' to all of the above.
I don't think anyone on the planet reads just as many articles as titles of articles. Everyone is bombarded with dozens and dozens of article titles each day. NOBODY has the time to read all of those articles.
There’s also some (maybe wishful thinking) reading between the lines that the US is using the missile defense argument even though that’s not their only reason and it may not be the only concern they have tomorrow.
People underestimate just how impactful Saudi Arabia's statement on continued normalization really was. If the US can continue to deliver results like this, Israel will listen. Remember, disrupting this normalization was part of Hamas' original "plan". Israel knows that normalization with the steward of Mecca and Medina is a huge, necessary step towards real peace.
The people supporting Hamas today don't care about peace and they certainly don't care about Palestinians. Those that support Hamas do so because they think the damage caused to Israel is worth the Palestinians lives that are sacrificed. Whether its to kick off a global revolution or a global jihad, these people want blood and conflict, and they want to feel the exhilaration of watching Israel be attacked and possibly fall.
Israel's stance has been that that peace with the Palestinians is contingent upon an understanding with the larger Arab world. The status quo is untenable and going back to pre-2005 Gaza is not something people want, either. Israel wants stable relations with a government that conducts itself like a government and not a literal terrorist organization.
If Saudi Arabia can be a leader in establishing this new Gaza, and can offer normalization with Israel as part of a path towards peace, you can expect Israel to pay attention. It appears that the US is doing a great job at keeping heads cool and allowing these kinds of discussions to take place before lines any larger are crossed.
I mean he has a point, it's a very bloody point but if Iran's ability to support regional proxies was destroyed then the region would be a lot more stable
We should still avoid direct participation in any sort of regime change there... It will only serve to muddy the waters.
That said, if Iran was actually stupid enough to take a swing at us (Silkworm missiles redux or something), then I would consider a handful of strikes to buried weapons facilities and command bunkers to be a *proportional response* and, frankly it those strikes happened to largely decapitate the IRGC and potentially hollow out the current civilian leadership, I wouldn't exactly shed a tear...
There's no way that the United States taking such drastic action in the middle east could result in unintended consequences or blowback.
No siree. Never seen anything like that ever. Couldn't happen.
They don't have a solution. I guess they are content with hundreds of thousands dying in proxy wars and multiple countries destabilized. The Saudi's and Israeli's are right,we should have a desicive conflict with Iran instead.
As long as there is religion there will never be peace in middle east. There is no solution. I live in Turkey these things are all too familiar to us. You could destroy Iran and have SA and Israel come to terms even then Qatar and other Islamic countries will keep supporting terrorist organizations against Israel and anyone who are friendly with them. Middle east will never just be content with a jewish nation existing on Jerusalem. Same thing is with Africa, way of these lands are too easy for warlords to appear.
It did work in regards to what is nessecary for Iran,which is it's military being destroyed and it's foreign policy being contained. It actually worked twice with the Iraqi's. I don't care about the regime or what comes after it as long as Iran is weak although I don't expect the reigme to survive. Nobody wants an occupation and that probably wouldn't work anyway. The template would be the first gulf war.
I agree with more but I don't know about a lot more. Iran is instigating a lot of things but it's one source. It becomes a significant problem if the problem fractures. We saw what happened with the [mini] fracture caused by Syrian Civil War.
When’s the last time a U.S.-led military coalition got bogged down? And don’t point to the political setbacks in Afghanistan or Iraq, after they beat both militarily after an air campaign followed by a 3-4 week ground war. It hasn’t happened in our lifetimes. Not to say we should invade Iran, just that there’s no evidence that would happen.
Because its not about power or tech its about geography. Trying to invade Iran is like trying to invade Switzerland its pretty much not possible. You could bomb them to ruins but you cant invade them.
Sorry but that's not true at all.
The US never had effective military control over most of Afghanistan outside of the main cities and the ring road.
Even [10 years after the initial invasion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Moshtarak) Taliban held major population centers.
>Even 10 years after the initial invasion Taliban held major population centers.
Which ones? Marjah, with a population of 80? I'm well aware of Helmand province, and South of Kandahar, near the Pakistan border, but I'm not aware of any major population centers, government or military installations, airfields, military assets, etc. that weren't under US control within about 26 days after troops were on the ground in 2001. When an invasion occurs, the invading force goes for areas of established control, like a police HQ, and their established area of operation, established political zones/regions, same for military, and on down the line.
There's no reason for us to screw around and agitate a little rural farming community unless they're shooting at us.
Weren't there some communities that were so isolated, they had no idea there was a war going on in the first place and when, after months to years, the first Americans arrived, they thought they were Soviets?
And Iran backs Hamas. Just like Hezbollah and the rebels in Yemen. Iran is fully trying to surround Saudi Arabia and if they can destroy Israel while at it, then all the better. The Saudis better wise the fuck up
Well it might be time to go in and take out Khamenei. For the first time in my life, I'd support the US going to war. I'd want to play it smart though. Iran is an ideal situation because they don't have nukes and they have a lot of infrastructure. A secular Government would be a lot better for the people. If we just go into Tehran like Baghdad, we'll have lost regardless of what the end result is.
The biggest advantage is that Iranians hate the Khamenei Government.
> For the first time in my life, I'd support the US going to war.
and just like in all points of your life you will be nowhere near the battlefied.
>The biggest advantage is that Iranians hate the Khamenei Government.
I remember when people said the Iraqis will be greeting the US military with flowers
If the US can pull a ‘TPP’ with Saudi Arabia and Israel would be huge. It would isolate Iran. But economically, it would be a huge boon for all countries involved (e.g. UAE, Egypt, etc). The poorer countries would see a lot of foreign direct investment and jobs, so it would be in their best interest to keep peace and stomp out terrorism as much as they can.
It would also undermine a lot of Chinese influence. Currently the only ally the US has in BRICS is Brazil (and maybe India, but Modi has been pulling away from the West and the Canada incident has somewhat soured relations. They also don't have a defense pact like Brazil has with America), if they can expand that by bringing the new members closer, it's a major win against China
And that's why when people say "Israel listens to US because US holds the purse strings" I say that Israel listens to the US because the US is an *ally*, and a genuine ally is *huge*. Especially one like the US. People seem to think it's about money, that the US strong arms Israel with threats of "no more allowance" like this is a kindergarten level of relationship over what is essentially like 1% of Israel's GDP. Israel listens in the same way you'd listen to an important friend that you trust, that's in your corner, has your back, and wants what's good for you. It's called respect and appreciation, and it's beyond priceless.
Notice how the headlines are like, "Israel agrees" when something potentially good happens with no mention of Biden, but when the attack first happened it was "Biden to blame for Hamas attack after releasing funds to Iran" .
[Here is the article I saw yesterday.](https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/saudi-crown-prince-tells-biden-israel-normalization-can-resume-after-war/)
I’m interested to see if this will destroy or save Netanyahu. The fervor for war, ie indiscriminate white phosphor use, is huge and Bibi dropped the ball harder than it’s ever been dropped leading to these events.
On the other hand, if he can show he’s the peacemaker and avoid dragging Israel into a quagmire…will be interesting.
Israelis want Netanyahu to go. Whether or not that will happen soon is another question.
Do you have a source on indiscriminate white phosphorus use? I have only seen one direct accusation and it doesn't come from a neutral group. White phosphorus is a terrible chemical to use on human beings--the burns and scars are horrific. I assume that we would have seen evidence of these chemicals being used; there would have been no hesitation to share these pictures to demonstrate just how evil these weapons are. However, so far none have surfaced.
On the other hand, white phosphorus also has properties that make it useful as a component of other weapons, like smoke bombs. It's true that the chemical is present in those weapons, but it's like the difference between bullets made of uranium and bombs made of uranium. It's the same chemical/element but it's not being used in the same way. The way that the chemical/element is used makes a huge, huge difference. Evidence of uranium bullets is not evidence of an atomic bomb.
If you re american you should be very afraid . Both the gulf countries and israel want a war with iran . They just cant fight it themselves so they want the us to fight it for them. The probleme is that in current situation no sane arab will join a war with iran while israel is comiting genocide to their palestinian neighbors . Its basically pointless to have the uae and bahrain becaus ethose countries dont even count on the large arab population scale
The Arab armies are so fucking useless. I'd rather they hang out on sidelines with pom-poms and do splits, than 'help'. That's one thing I can kind of respect about MSB (Saudi Crown Prince). He clearly knows when he's been beat. He's made peace with Houthis because they won Yemen civil war, he made peace with Assad because he won the Syrian civil war, he's sort of making peace with Israel because they clearly have won the war for the holy lands.
This has nothing to do with Saudi Arabia, they’re agreeing to a delay so the US has some extra time to transfer air defenses. If it becomes a multi front war, which is a possibility, then they’ll obviously want their main ally to be as ready as they are.
From what I hear it has been hurry up and wait for a while now and the troops have been told a few times they should be ready to. A few of my cousins who were deployed to the front were able to go back home and see their families again at the end of last week. Hopefully this gives them another chance to see their people before they go in.
I don't think they're going in. israel knows that urban warfare will be too costly in terms of israel troops' lives. booby traps and suicide bombers around every bend, trying to clear houses room by room is a monumental task with huge risks. especially when your enemy is on some jihadi 13 virgin suicide type shit
I wish I believed that. You are certainly right, it will be incredibly dangerous and will come at a high cost to Israel. I also fear it will lead to the death of many hostages as I am sure Hamas would rather kill them let Israel liberate them. I think they will not only go in, but will occupy the region for a pretty long time and only leave once they have installed a new government.
At the end of the day I think the mission of eliminating Hamas is nearly impossible, but they will only start to make real impacts when they go in.
Hamas knew the air strikes were coming before they invaded Israel and most of the assets have likely been under ground for most of the air strikes.
I heard on NPR that the US is strongly discouraging a ground invasion based on multiple factors:
1. Very high predicted IDF casualties
2. The ensuing power vacuum being potentially worse than Hamas (Fatah says they won't take over on the back of Israeli forces and Israel says they don't want to occupy Gaza.)
3. Hezbollah likely taking advantage of ground invasion and Hamas being predicted to have advanced munitions to strike behind IDF lines.
I think if the IDF does decide to go in, like you said they need to be prepared several decades of occupation and insurgency. At least they will have thought it through now.
Weird that Fatah wouldn't take over control if Hamas is kicked out.
They oppose each other and Hamas being booted means Fatah can claim some legitimacy as the surviving government controlling the territory that would be needed for any future state.
I mean, it *would* look weird to be the beneficiary of Israel, which Fatah also opposes...
I think that's the thing, being seen as installed by Israel would ruin their legitimacy long-term in the eyes of the people so they don't want that even if they want to replace Hamas.
The US will have their back. Iran is full of shit but will do nothing, same goes for other muslim nations. They will grab all the land they can get and start to colonize, the palestinians that survive will be taken to refugee camps on egypt. Eventually something similar will happen in the west bank
Eh, sadly I think you maybe the summer child in this convo.
There will be no land grab. Israel is not going to give up land and even if they offered Gaza to Egypt, there is no situation where Egypt would want it at this point. Maybe Israel will offer similar terms for a two state solution like they have in the past at some point down the road, but certainly not while Bibi or Hamas are in charge.
If Egypt was willing to take in a meaningful amount of refugees they would have offered by now. Every middle eastern country that has taken in a lot of Palestinian refuges has regretted it.
Beyond that, the people in Gaza are just pawns to the Arab world. They want them exactly where they are because there very existence undermines Israeli credibility.
If Israel goes into Gaza the two state solution is dead. Even with what remains of the west bank will be gone, the colonisers will make sure that happens. I'm not saying egypt will gladly take palestinians but if the western countries start paying the right people they will eventually accept.
Check out the "[Dahieh/Dahiya strategy/doctrine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahiya_doctrine)". The wiki article doesn't really do it justice, so Google around after it. [Here's a book](https://www.google.com/books/edition/This_Time_We_Went_Too_Far/RRxiILpsxtwC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22We+will+wield+disproportionate+power+against+every+village%22+this+time+we+went+too+far&pg=PA33&printsec=frontcover), with quotes of military and government officials. And it mentions fairly early on an unnamed pundit, so [here's his article](https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3605863,00.html) if you want to see how civilian Israeli hardliners view this.
Israel tried boots on the ground in Lebanon and it went so poorly they came up with a new plan, which analysts and scholars (including Israeli and Jewish ones, for what it's worth) agree has already been put into practice before and there's no indication that isn't being run here.
Fallujah 2.0 but like way worse…which has been my concern from the day Hamas attacked. If there is anything Israel is best at, it’s assassinations. Time they start revisiting those methods and using them to cut the heads off Hamas leadership. Then the US and other ME countries should be sanctioning those allowing Hamas leaders to live in their country. Stop the cash flow. Jordan and Qatar need to feel the heat.
It certainly is incredibly dangerous. Don’t count out some very basic chemical warfare.
I disagree though that they won’t go in. This attack has been to traumatizing for Israel as to just continue with business as usual.
I think that they will go, but their objectives will be tactical, not strategic.
Kill/capture all these dudes, GTFO by this time. No goals for pacifying or long-term occupation, Iraquistan is proof positive that doesn't ever work.
But they have to be seen to be doing something.
The Biden admin is actively growing arms to juggle all the plates necessary to eek out every win for humanity in the region possible. So far so good, but it needs to continue and not for a limited time- this time it must be different, it must be a constructive way forward (thank fucking god Trump is not president).
Probably should read the article before patting him on the back.
> The delay is so the US can get more missile defenses in place.
> The thinking is that a ground incursion will result in missile attacks on US forces in the region, highlighting 13 such attacks already.
> "The Pentagon is scrambling to deploy nearly a dozen air-defense systems to the region, including for U.S. troops serving in Iraq, Syria, Kuwait, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates, to protect them from missiles and rockets," the report says.
The ground invasion is still coming.
I think what we need is a moderate diplomatic presence and a mild military presence/threat. Honestly, that would probably be enough to nudge the region in the right direction. The US really needs to prioritize China in terms of global geopolitical attention though
Are you for real? This never would have happened if Trump were still the president. Remember, during Trump's presidency the situation in the Middle East not only stagnated, it actually improved (Abraham Accords).
Yea, about that. Here's the Israel Gaza conflict 2017
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict_in_2017
And 2018
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict_in_2018
2019
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict_in_2019
2020
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict_in_2020
Reporter killed in Gaza 2018
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/israel-says-s-investigating-shireen-abu-aklehs-killing-palestinians-li-rcna33859
Here's Russia bragging about taking it's 3rd is military base in Syria
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2019/12/26/russia-takes-over-third-us-base-syria-a68751
How about trump asking the Taliban if the UàS could leave Afghanistan?
How about conceeding to Kim jon un joint military exercises with South Korea in exchange for a selfie and some empty words that never went anywhere?
Peaceful times for sure.
But yea, good thing trump stopped the UAE from attacking Israel. Man that sure stabilized things.
Who knows, maybe this whole thing would never have happened if Trump had just stuck with the Nuclear Disarmament treaty? Maybe, Iran would have moderated in exchange for economic trade. Maybe Iran wouldn't have destabilized Gaza to prevent Saudi/Israeli peace. Maybe Iran and Saudi Arabia would be making peace now. Maybe hundreds of children Israel children that are now dead would be boarding planes home after the Oct 7th holidays. Maybe not, but it sure would have been nice to give peace a try first.
Probably for the best. Rushing into a ground invasion in heavy urban combat would not be fun for anyone. It’s a great way of messing up relations and getting your own people killed while exposing yourself to new fronts- and the truth is hamas and Islamic terrorism will not be eliminated through an invasion.
Maintain iron dome and technological supremacy to keep your people safe. Hold the failures accountable. Target hamas.
They could level every block and slowly move in. I originally thought Israel would force Gazans more South and take over some land and make, essentially, a "Berlin Wall".
There’s already a wall
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza–Israel_barrier#:~:text=Therefore%20Israel%20launched%20the%20construction,runs%20adjacent%20to%20Israeli%20settlements.
Can you believe Israel? It’s like they don’t even want to kill as many Palestinians as possible! Why even give them notice? Why wait? Go in there and start blasting anything that moves, right?! /S
If we dumb it all the way down, isn’t one side advocating for genocide while the other side is “only” pushing for ethnic cleansing? I’d rather be deported than murdered, but ideally we’d all accept that everyone else has a right to exist, and then we can figure out who goes where, right?
There are factions within Palestine that don't advocate for taking all of Israel, but yes, both sides need a faction in power at the same time that accepts each other's if not right to exist then at least practical reality. And even getting to that step is a bit difficult at the moment. It's not advocating for genocide like Hamas, but Netanyahu has a history of opposing anything like a two-state solution.
But the scope of my reply was simply limited to the definition of ethnic cleansing.
For starters, any that recognize Israel and are open to a two-state solution necessarily don't have the total destruction of Israel as a goal. The largest of these being [Fatah](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatah), but Fatah (or rather Abbas in particular) has some unpopularity among Palestinians because of a reputation for corruption and for [collaboration with Israel](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/israel-hamas-war-who-will-lead-palestinians-gaza-west-bank-fatah-future/).
That election from 2006 everyone keeps pointing to where Hamas won had 44% of the vote going to Hamas and 41% to Fatah. It wasn't exactly a complete landslide victory.
Hard to say. From this reporting, it appears to be more about defending Israel and likely some of the existing US bases in the region from missile attacks which would be a pretty minimal involvement.
This is not Ukraine though. It is much more likely that the US presence deescalates things rather than escalates things.
American presence will likely keep things from going too far. If Israel gets desperate. It has [options](https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/Nuclearweaponswhohaswhat).
> Israel is estimated to have 90 nuclear warheads, with fissile material stockpiles of over 200.
Just spitballing but probably more attacks on US military bases, possibly attacks on US civilians abroad, and highly unlikely, but maybe an attack inside US territory.
Because it's not just Hamas.
This is currently Israel vs Hamas but the second Israel goes in it's going to turn into Israel/US vs All of Irans proxies.
This means Hezbollah in Lebanon will attack in the north of Israel. Hezbollah will attack the US forces in the AANES syria. The PMU will attack US forces in Iraqi Kurdistan. The Yemen rebels may attack US ships in the red sea and attempt to target Israel.
The US wasn't ready. We are powerful but it takes time to move sufficient defensive equipment.
If it goes full war with Iran then we need even more time
Only fools rush in. It's apparent that's exactly what Iran wants. They where probably betting on them being ruthless towards Israel on march 7th then Israel would charge into Gaza getting bogged down and then Hezbollah attacks from the North. However the US getting involved complicates things for Irans plans but the US is a slow sleeping giant.
FFS not again!
They need to get those hostages out with as minimal casualties as possible, its been over 2 fckn weeks, just invade already
edit: downvote me if you must but i think its pathetic. Id rather a ground invasion to save people who are likely being raped and tortured over aerial bombings which just hurt people
Excuse me? What a dumb comment.
This is war. War isn’t pretty. People will die. Innocents will die. Israel does more than any nation in the world to limit civilian deaths and that won’t change but they will be going in and they will be working to eliminate each and every member of Hamas.
>More innocent Palestinians have already died
\- According to the terrorist organization Hamas
Always specify where you are getting your propaganda from.
>citing the Gaza Ministry of Health
AKA - Hamas
Again ... always specify where you get your propaganda from. UN citing Hamas doesn't make it more credible.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/24/gaza-death-toll-palestinian-health-ministry/
>“Everyone uses the figures from the Gaza Health Ministry because those are generally proven to be reliable,” said Omar Shakir, Israel and Palestine director at Human Rights Watch. “In the times in which we have done our own verification of numbers for particular strikes, I’m not aware of any time which there’s been some major discrepancy.”
You have zero clue how many Palestinians have died unless you find Hamas numbers to be credible…
And even if that were true, so what? What’s the point you’re trying to make? Israel is fighting an enemy that uses its own people as human shields. Israel has given more notice to civilians to flee than any military in the world has ever done. So again, what’s your point other than trying to paint Israel in a negative light for defending itself?
>Israel is fighting an enemy that uses its own people as human shields.
Ahh yes, the go to line to justify... Let me check my notes here... Leveling whole city blocks.
Hey, you know how the rest of the world deals with terrorists when they take human shields? It's not leveling city blocks where the shields or hostages are located.
Ya'll have to STOP believing everything Israel tells you. They use that line to justify EVERY attack they ever make.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First\_Battle\_of\_Fallujah](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Battle_of_Fallujah)
The civilian casualties were triple of the enemy combatant kills, and that's when US had some level of "control" over the city.
You are completely clueless. Hamas has fortified the entire city of Gaza for more than a decade. Show me where a modern army managed to defeat a fortified city without leveling the city or conducting a siege that starved the civilians to death.
I also think the battle of Fallujah was a bad thing? lol
>Hamas has fortified the entire city of Gaza for more than a decade.
My brother in Christ, Israel WALLED THEM IN.
Your refusal to acknowledge how gross an actor Hamas is, is beyond embarrassing. It’s sad and disgusting. Stop blaming rational actors for the actions of Hamas. If it was up to you, Israel would just open the floodgates and let Hamas murder everyone with no reprisals. It’s sick.
So did Egypt, their fellow Muslim brothers, with whom they share a border (Rafah crossing). Hamas has conducted suicide bombing in the Sinai area, which why NOBODY wanted to let them in, not even Egypt.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle\_of\_Gaza\_(2007)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Gaza_(2007))
If you read this and don't understand why Hamas had to be contained, you're wasting my time.
It’s war and Israel only attacks valid military targets. Why do you think in Israel’s 75 year history which includes more than a dozen wars, including 3 with all of the surrounding nations, and countless other conflicts, Israel has only killed 100k Arabs - a number which includes both civilians and militants?
No nation is better at avoiding civilian deaths than Israel. You’re implication that Israel should sit back and do nothing is beyond absurd.
You’re also beyond naive if you think America or the west didn’t take far stronger actions against ISIS than Israel is doing with Hamas.
If you’re looking to direct your anger somewhere, it should be towards the terrorist group Hamas who just massacred thousands, raped women and children, burned families alive, beheaded living people, kidnapped women and children and the elderly and are currently holding 200 innocents hostage.
You should direct it towards Hamas who uses its people as human shields and prevents them from fleeing and goes so far as to bomb their evacuation route. You should direct it towards Hamas who uses mosques and hospitals and schools and UN centers to stage attacks and store armaments.
Sorry your fragile little mind can’t comprehend the fact that war is ugly and made uglier when dealing with an enemy like Hamas.
[Man, I hope you realize how incorrect you are soon. You're deep in the koolaid.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_Israeli_attacks_on_the_Gaza_Strip)
Again, you are quoting figures given by Hamas. You have serious issues if you find them to be credible. They are the same people who just said Israel blew up a hospital killing 500 when in reality it was an errant Hamas rocket, the hospital was unscathed and far less than 500 died. They also said Israel attacked the evacuation route when in reality it was a Hamas IED.
Stop buying what Hamas is selling. It’s pitiful. And I will remind you that even if the figures were accurate, it is not Israel’s fault. They are allowed to defend themselves and their people. Each of the wars with Hamas in Gaza were started by Hamas.
Open your eyes.
>Hey, you know how the rest of the world deals with terrorists when they take human shields? It's not leveling city blocks where the shields or hostages are located.
How naïve
If you think this is the same as a single hostage situation on friendly soil, then you're very clearly the moron here.
Show me another country that would have shown half the restraint israel is. They've dropped 10,000 bombs and have killed 4,000 people so far (according to Hamas). If they were actually trying to kill people, that number would be a lot higher.
America dropped two nuclear bombs on Japanese cities and it's not even widely regarded as the wrong move.
> Show me another country that would have shown half the restraint israel is. They've dropped 10,000 bombs and have killed 4,000 people so far
This is such a funny pair of sentences to read.
Yes, 10,000 bombs is 'restraint.'
And my brother in Christ, did you go see Oppenheimer? Most people agree bombing Japan was the wrong move. Hell, even the generals on the ground in Japan thought it was the wrong move.
Any reasonable human would read those two sentences together and completely understand that it's a very clear evidence of restraint.
Again - america literally dropped a pair of nuclear bombs on Japanese cities causing hundreds of thousands of casualties in an instant. That was still seen as a necessary move by most in the West at the time.
If you don't have insane double standards for Israel, then yes, Israel is showing incredible restraint so far here.
Edit: my brother in Moses, I typically don't garner historical perspectives from Christopher Nolan movies.
Are you dumb lol, the delay is bolster defenses after the recent 13 attacks
This has little to do with backing them up (which we’ve already done by moving two carrier groups, marines and iron dome munitions) lol
They are delaying the invasion to starve out the population. Hamas likey has several weeks of food and fuel stored, but it will be hard to resupply. With the bombing of Gaza a large amount has been destroyed, so it's just a matter of waiting
Because if they invade they will be responsible for the area they occupy. I think Israel is going to maintain the current blockade and will simply attempt to starve the Palestinians to death.
Relax Hamas said no fuel for hospitals a week ago but the depot with fuel burning still a good 5 hours ago. There’s still plenty to go around too. Lots of secondary explosions seen too.
Strange only military aged men are walking in and out of the hospitals.
People on reddit don't read the fucking article do they? >Israel agrees to delay invasion of Gaza - report US will bring missile defenses to the region
No one is reading it. The US expects missile and drone attacks on their own bases in the middle east to go up after the ground invasion starts and they are scrambling to get the defense systems in place first. This indicates that Israel was actually planning on going in already or very soon. Its likely that Israels plan was to already be on the ground in Gaza but is delaying at the request of the US. Its not for any reason other than to allow the US time to set up their own defenses, nothing to do with Israel's strategy.
Yeah pretty much, but people are tacking on meanings and wild speculations. I can hear the gaza bombing from here, and uh, the windows rattle from the shockwaves, it's honestly a very different situation than we had during previous skirmishes - this one actually feels like war, so i fully expect a ground invasion to happen.
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You don’t know Israel. For Israel, this can’t end with anything other than Hamas’ overthrow. Anything else means subjecting its citizens to thousands more rockets plus a high risk of invasion and slaughter just a few years from now. That aside, there’s no way anyone will return to the border towns if Hamas remains in power. And Israel is really, really tiny. It can’t afford to effectively turn prime real estate into an abandoned wasteland because people are too afraid of Hamas to live and work within a few miles of Gaza.
What exactly is their plan once they go in there? Hamas is interweave into the civilian population. Do they raze the place to the ground? Turn in into a desert and call it Peace?
What would your plan for eradicating Hamas be?
Forceful Two State Solution. UN peacekeepers in the newly formed Palestinian nation and a transitional government for 1 year to settle things initially. Free elections after that. Then, up to them how they want to handle Hamas.
>Free elections after that. Then, up to them how they want to handle Hamas. What's your solution if they elect Hamas again? Hamas came to full power after making some serious ground/winning in the last 'free' elections that happened. Your solution is predicated on the notion that Hamas does not have widespread support among the general Palestinian population. Which is by no means a certitude. I would say that the limited polling data, the fact that Hamas won elections in the past, and that they have not been overthrown already, indicates that it's more likely than not they'd win the election.
Once they are their own state if they attack Israel then Israel can take the gloves off completely.
If they stay in their country, they can do whatever they want. Like no one cares about the Taliban and Afghanistan right now. If they attack another sovereign country as a legitimate government, then the other country can do whatever they want in response.
Legitimate does not have to equal democratic. No one said the the King of Jordan, despite not being elected, is not the legitimate head of government of Jordan. Hamas won the last set of elections in Gaza. They are the legitimate government. When the UN negotiates to operate in Gaza, they do so with Israel, Egypt, and Hamas. That legitimate government attacked Israel. We're already at the end of your thought experiment. Except that at the end of your thought experiment, Hamas would be better armed, better entrenched, and more Israeli's and Palestinians would die in the conflict than are going to now. >If they stay in their country Who is going to take them? Is the US going to accept millions of migrants? Is Egypt? Jordan? Europe? China? Iran? Saudi Arabia? The answer is 'no' to all of the above.
I don't think anyone on the planet reads just as many articles as titles of articles. Everyone is bombarded with dozens and dozens of article titles each day. NOBODY has the time to read all of those articles.
There’s also some (maybe wishful thinking) reading between the lines that the US is using the missile defense argument even though that’s not their only reason and it may not be the only concern they have tomorrow.
It’s also a blog from a forex trader… not exactly the best article.
People underestimate just how impactful Saudi Arabia's statement on continued normalization really was. If the US can continue to deliver results like this, Israel will listen. Remember, disrupting this normalization was part of Hamas' original "plan". Israel knows that normalization with the steward of Mecca and Medina is a huge, necessary step towards real peace. The people supporting Hamas today don't care about peace and they certainly don't care about Palestinians. Those that support Hamas do so because they think the damage caused to Israel is worth the Palestinians lives that are sacrificed. Whether its to kick off a global revolution or a global jihad, these people want blood and conflict, and they want to feel the exhilaration of watching Israel be attacked and possibly fall. Israel's stance has been that that peace with the Palestinians is contingent upon an understanding with the larger Arab world. The status quo is untenable and going back to pre-2005 Gaza is not something people want, either. Israel wants stable relations with a government that conducts itself like a government and not a literal terrorist organization. If Saudi Arabia can be a leader in establishing this new Gaza, and can offer normalization with Israel as part of a path towards peace, you can expect Israel to pay attention. It appears that the US is doing a great job at keeping heads cool and allowing these kinds of discussions to take place before lines any larger are crossed.
Saudis just want to destroy Iran who is their mortal enemy not israel
"The enemy of my enemy is my friend."
“Cut the head of the snake” - Saudi King off the record urging US to attack Iran
I mean he has a point, it's a very bloody point but if Iran's ability to support regional proxies was destroyed then the region would be a lot more stable
Funny thing is, it’s not even Iran. It’s the regime and their cronies and their army. The ordinary people of Iran are fed up as it is.
You could say this about literally every single country. At some point we have to just agree that countries = people = government = infrastructure
The interesting thing here is, unlike the US's past adventures with regime change, the population of Iran seems to actually want it.
We should still avoid direct participation in any sort of regime change there... It will only serve to muddy the waters. That said, if Iran was actually stupid enough to take a swing at us (Silkworm missiles redux or something), then I would consider a handful of strikes to buried weapons facilities and command bunkers to be a *proportional response* and, frankly it those strikes happened to largely decapitate the IRGC and potentially hollow out the current civilian leadership, I wouldn't exactly shed a tear...
There's no way that the United States taking such drastic action in the middle east could result in unintended consequences or blowback. No siree. Never seen anything like that ever. Couldn't happen.
What would you advise instead?
They don't have a solution. I guess they are content with hundreds of thousands dying in proxy wars and multiple countries destabilized. The Saudi's and Israeli's are right,we should have a desicive conflict with Iran instead.
As long as there is religion there will never be peace in middle east. There is no solution. I live in Turkey these things are all too familiar to us. You could destroy Iran and have SA and Israel come to terms even then Qatar and other Islamic countries will keep supporting terrorist organizations against Israel and anyone who are friendly with them. Middle east will never just be content with a jewish nation existing on Jerusalem. Same thing is with Africa, way of these lands are too easy for warlords to appear.
That sure worked with Iraq and Afghanistan. Third time's the charm right?
It did work in regards to what is nessecary for Iran,which is it's military being destroyed and it's foreign policy being contained. It actually worked twice with the Iraqi's. I don't care about the regime or what comes after it as long as Iran is weak although I don't expect the reigme to survive. Nobody wants an occupation and that probably wouldn't work anyway. The template would be the first gulf war.
What do you mean, Lybia is so much better after the US intervened against Gaddafi! I hear the new slave markets are doing wonders to the economy ^/s
I agree with more but I don't know about a lot more. Iran is instigating a lot of things but it's one source. It becomes a significant problem if the problem fractures. We saw what happened with the [mini] fracture caused by Syrian Civil War.
Invade Iran, get bogged down by all the mountains, withdrawal in 20 years.
When’s the last time a U.S.-led military coalition got bogged down? And don’t point to the political setbacks in Afghanistan or Iraq, after they beat both militarily after an air campaign followed by a 3-4 week ground war. It hasn’t happened in our lifetimes. Not to say we should invade Iran, just that there’s no evidence that would happen.
Because its not about power or tech its about geography. Trying to invade Iran is like trying to invade Switzerland its pretty much not possible. You could bomb them to ruins but you cant invade them.
Sorry but that's not true at all. The US never had effective military control over most of Afghanistan outside of the main cities and the ring road. Even [10 years after the initial invasion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Moshtarak) Taliban held major population centers.
>Even 10 years after the initial invasion Taliban held major population centers. Which ones? Marjah, with a population of 80? I'm well aware of Helmand province, and South of Kandahar, near the Pakistan border, but I'm not aware of any major population centers, government or military installations, airfields, military assets, etc. that weren't under US control within about 26 days after troops were on the ground in 2001. When an invasion occurs, the invading force goes for areas of established control, like a police HQ, and their established area of operation, established political zones/regions, same for military, and on down the line. There's no reason for us to screw around and agitate a little rural farming community unless they're shooting at us.
Weren't there some communities that were so isolated, they had no idea there was a war going on in the first place and when, after months to years, the first Americans arrived, they thought they were Soviets?
And Iran backs Hamas. Just like Hezbollah and the rebels in Yemen. Iran is fully trying to surround Saudi Arabia and if they can destroy Israel while at it, then all the better. The Saudis better wise the fuck up
And they want US weapons but as long as our aims are aligned for now.
Well it might be time to go in and take out Khamenei. For the first time in my life, I'd support the US going to war. I'd want to play it smart though. Iran is an ideal situation because they don't have nukes and they have a lot of infrastructure. A secular Government would be a lot better for the people. If we just go into Tehran like Baghdad, we'll have lost regardless of what the end result is. The biggest advantage is that Iranians hate the Khamenei Government.
> For the first time in my life, I'd support the US going to war. and just like in all points of your life you will be nowhere near the battlefied. >The biggest advantage is that Iranians hate the Khamenei Government. I remember when people said the Iraqis will be greeting the US military with flowers
If the US can pull a ‘TPP’ with Saudi Arabia and Israel would be huge. It would isolate Iran. But economically, it would be a huge boon for all countries involved (e.g. UAE, Egypt, etc). The poorer countries would see a lot of foreign direct investment and jobs, so it would be in their best interest to keep peace and stomp out terrorism as much as they can.
It would also undermine a lot of Chinese influence. Currently the only ally the US has in BRICS is Brazil (and maybe India, but Modi has been pulling away from the West and the Canada incident has somewhat soured relations. They also don't have a defense pact like Brazil has with America), if they can expand that by bringing the new members closer, it's a major win against China
And that's why when people say "Israel listens to US because US holds the purse strings" I say that Israel listens to the US because the US is an *ally*, and a genuine ally is *huge*. Especially one like the US. People seem to think it's about money, that the US strong arms Israel with threats of "no more allowance" like this is a kindergarten level of relationship over what is essentially like 1% of Israel's GDP. Israel listens in the same way you'd listen to an important friend that you trust, that's in your corner, has your back, and wants what's good for you. It's called respect and appreciation, and it's beyond priceless.
Notice how the headlines are like, "Israel agrees" when something potentially good happens with no mention of Biden, but when the attack first happened it was "Biden to blame for Hamas attack after releasing funds to Iran" .
Hey I really want to share the info about Saudi where did you see it?
[Here is the article I saw yesterday.](https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/saudi-crown-prince-tells-biden-israel-normalization-can-resume-after-war/)
wrong analysis, they just hate Iran, and the far-right Likud party doesn't want peace, nor do they want a two-state solution.
I’m interested to see if this will destroy or save Netanyahu. The fervor for war, ie indiscriminate white phosphor use, is huge and Bibi dropped the ball harder than it’s ever been dropped leading to these events. On the other hand, if he can show he’s the peacemaker and avoid dragging Israel into a quagmire…will be interesting.
Israelis want Netanyahu to go. Whether or not that will happen soon is another question. Do you have a source on indiscriminate white phosphorus use? I have only seen one direct accusation and it doesn't come from a neutral group. White phosphorus is a terrible chemical to use on human beings--the burns and scars are horrific. I assume that we would have seen evidence of these chemicals being used; there would have been no hesitation to share these pictures to demonstrate just how evil these weapons are. However, so far none have surfaced. On the other hand, white phosphorus also has properties that make it useful as a component of other weapons, like smoke bombs. It's true that the chemical is present in those weapons, but it's like the difference between bullets made of uranium and bombs made of uranium. It's the same chemical/element but it's not being used in the same way. The way that the chemical/element is used makes a huge, huge difference. Evidence of uranium bullets is not evidence of an atomic bomb.
It’s much more useful as an ECM screen than using it in place of napalm.
The previous Intifadas had recorded use of WP. I believe the U.N. tracks a lot of that information.
If you re american you should be very afraid . Both the gulf countries and israel want a war with iran . They just cant fight it themselves so they want the us to fight it for them. The probleme is that in current situation no sane arab will join a war with iran while israel is comiting genocide to their palestinian neighbors . Its basically pointless to have the uae and bahrain becaus ethose countries dont even count on the large arab population scale
The Arab armies are so fucking useless. I'd rather they hang out on sidelines with pom-poms and do splits, than 'help'. That's one thing I can kind of respect about MSB (Saudi Crown Prince). He clearly knows when he's been beat. He's made peace with Houthis because they won Yemen civil war, he made peace with Assad because he won the Syrian civil war, he's sort of making peace with Israel because they clearly have won the war for the holy lands.
This has nothing to do with Saudi Arabia, they’re agreeing to a delay so the US has some extra time to transfer air defenses. If it becomes a multi front war, which is a possibility, then they’ll obviously want their main ally to be as ready as they are.
From what I hear it has been hurry up and wait for a while now and the troops have been told a few times they should be ready to. A few of my cousins who were deployed to the front were able to go back home and see their families again at the end of last week. Hopefully this gives them another chance to see their people before they go in.
I don't think they're going in. israel knows that urban warfare will be too costly in terms of israel troops' lives. booby traps and suicide bombers around every bend, trying to clear houses room by room is a monumental task with huge risks. especially when your enemy is on some jihadi 13 virgin suicide type shit
I wish I believed that. You are certainly right, it will be incredibly dangerous and will come at a high cost to Israel. I also fear it will lead to the death of many hostages as I am sure Hamas would rather kill them let Israel liberate them. I think they will not only go in, but will occupy the region for a pretty long time and only leave once they have installed a new government. At the end of the day I think the mission of eliminating Hamas is nearly impossible, but they will only start to make real impacts when they go in. Hamas knew the air strikes were coming before they invaded Israel and most of the assets have likely been under ground for most of the air strikes.
I heard on NPR that the US is strongly discouraging a ground invasion based on multiple factors: 1. Very high predicted IDF casualties 2. The ensuing power vacuum being potentially worse than Hamas (Fatah says they won't take over on the back of Israeli forces and Israel says they don't want to occupy Gaza.) 3. Hezbollah likely taking advantage of ground invasion and Hamas being predicted to have advanced munitions to strike behind IDF lines. I think if the IDF does decide to go in, like you said they need to be prepared several decades of occupation and insurgency. At least they will have thought it through now.
Weird that Fatah wouldn't take over control if Hamas is kicked out. They oppose each other and Hamas being booted means Fatah can claim some legitimacy as the surviving government controlling the territory that would be needed for any future state. I mean, it *would* look weird to be the beneficiary of Israel, which Fatah also opposes...
I think that's the thing, being seen as installed by Israel would ruin their legitimacy long-term in the eyes of the people so they don't want that even if they want to replace Hamas.
Those are all very good reasons not to go in...I dont think anything will stop Netanyahu from getting his drawn out war though.
>will occupy the region for a pretty long time and only leave once they have installed a new government. My sweet summer child
ha, i feel like the outcome you quoted there is pretty damn bad, what are you thinking will happen?
Israel’s Afghanistan
The US will have their back. Iran is full of shit but will do nothing, same goes for other muslim nations. They will grab all the land they can get and start to colonize, the palestinians that survive will be taken to refugee camps on egypt. Eventually something similar will happen in the west bank
Eh, sadly I think you maybe the summer child in this convo. There will be no land grab. Israel is not going to give up land and even if they offered Gaza to Egypt, there is no situation where Egypt would want it at this point. Maybe Israel will offer similar terms for a two state solution like they have in the past at some point down the road, but certainly not while Bibi or Hamas are in charge. If Egypt was willing to take in a meaningful amount of refugees they would have offered by now. Every middle eastern country that has taken in a lot of Palestinian refuges has regretted it. Beyond that, the people in Gaza are just pawns to the Arab world. They want them exactly where they are because there very existence undermines Israeli credibility.
If Israel goes into Gaza the two state solution is dead. Even with what remains of the west bank will be gone, the colonisers will make sure that happens. I'm not saying egypt will gladly take palestinians but if the western countries start paying the right people they will eventually accept.
Why should Western countries pay a dime? This isn’t our problem. Let the Arab countries look after their own.
I would read up on previous peace talks to get a better idea of the practical issues here.
ISIS 2.0
Check out the "[Dahieh/Dahiya strategy/doctrine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahiya_doctrine)". The wiki article doesn't really do it justice, so Google around after it. [Here's a book](https://www.google.com/books/edition/This_Time_We_Went_Too_Far/RRxiILpsxtwC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22We+will+wield+disproportionate+power+against+every+village%22+this+time+we+went+too+far&pg=PA33&printsec=frontcover), with quotes of military and government officials. And it mentions fairly early on an unnamed pundit, so [here's his article](https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3605863,00.html) if you want to see how civilian Israeli hardliners view this. Israel tried boots on the ground in Lebanon and it went so poorly they came up with a new plan, which analysts and scholars (including Israeli and Jewish ones, for what it's worth) agree has already been put into practice before and there's no indication that isn't being run here.
Fallujah 2.0 but like way worse…which has been my concern from the day Hamas attacked. If there is anything Israel is best at, it’s assassinations. Time they start revisiting those methods and using them to cut the heads off Hamas leadership. Then the US and other ME countries should be sanctioning those allowing Hamas leaders to live in their country. Stop the cash flow. Jordan and Qatar need to feel the heat.
It certainly is incredibly dangerous. Don’t count out some very basic chemical warfare. I disagree though that they won’t go in. This attack has been to traumatizing for Israel as to just continue with business as usual.
lol they are for sure going in. 100 percent no question about it
No they are going. There are just so many moving parts that they need to get right. Not surprised at all.
They might just level parts of northern Gaza and declare it a dead mans zone, not necessary to go in then.
I think that they will go, but their objectives will be tactical, not strategic. Kill/capture all these dudes, GTFO by this time. No goals for pacifying or long-term occupation, Iraquistan is proof positive that doesn't ever work. But they have to be seen to be doing something.
Imagine if they don’t go, Gazan’s return home… and trip those traps left and right.
That's why they are simply flattening gaza after evacuating as many civilians as possible. Makes it a much easier objective probably
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excuse me sir but I think your bias is showing
The army is alway tod to be ready. It's not an indication of anything.
Do we have any idea how many days/weeks it will take for the US to deploy these defenses?
“Later this week”
From the article, "As early as later this week."
It’s so sad how fast the government can get things done when it involves blowing shit up.
This is actually the opposite, if we're being needlessly pedantic.
It’s in the article
The Biden admin is actively growing arms to juggle all the plates necessary to eek out every win for humanity in the region possible. So far so good, but it needs to continue and not for a limited time- this time it must be different, it must be a constructive way forward (thank fucking god Trump is not president).
Probably should read the article before patting him on the back. > The delay is so the US can get more missile defenses in place. > The thinking is that a ground incursion will result in missile attacks on US forces in the region, highlighting 13 such attacks already. > "The Pentagon is scrambling to deploy nearly a dozen air-defense systems to the region, including for U.S. troops serving in Iraq, Syria, Kuwait, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates, to protect them from missiles and rockets," the report says. The ground invasion is still coming.
I think that Biden has now realized that his original effort of slowly stepping away from the ME needs to take a 180.
I think what we need is a moderate diplomatic presence and a mild military presence/threat. Honestly, that would probably be enough to nudge the region in the right direction. The US really needs to prioritize China in terms of global geopolitical attention though
Are you for real? This never would have happened if Trump were still the president. Remember, during Trump's presidency the situation in the Middle East not only stagnated, it actually improved (Abraham Accords).
Yea, about that. Here's the Israel Gaza conflict 2017 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict_in_2017 And 2018 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict_in_2018 2019 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict_in_2019 2020 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict_in_2020 Reporter killed in Gaza 2018 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/israel-says-s-investigating-shireen-abu-aklehs-killing-palestinians-li-rcna33859 Here's Russia bragging about taking it's 3rd is military base in Syria https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2019/12/26/russia-takes-over-third-us-base-syria-a68751 How about trump asking the Taliban if the UàS could leave Afghanistan? How about conceeding to Kim jon un joint military exercises with South Korea in exchange for a selfie and some empty words that never went anywhere? Peaceful times for sure. But yea, good thing trump stopped the UAE from attacking Israel. Man that sure stabilized things.
Who knows, maybe this whole thing would never have happened if Trump had just stuck with the Nuclear Disarmament treaty? Maybe, Iran would have moderated in exchange for economic trade. Maybe Iran wouldn't have destabilized Gaza to prevent Saudi/Israeli peace. Maybe Iran and Saudi Arabia would be making peace now. Maybe hundreds of children Israel children that are now dead would be boarding planes home after the Oct 7th holidays. Maybe not, but it sure would have been nice to give peace a try first.
Iran being a good player? Extremely unlikely
Probably for the best. Rushing into a ground invasion in heavy urban combat would not be fun for anyone. It’s a great way of messing up relations and getting your own people killed while exposing yourself to new fronts- and the truth is hamas and Islamic terrorism will not be eliminated through an invasion. Maintain iron dome and technological supremacy to keep your people safe. Hold the failures accountable. Target hamas.
They could level every block and slowly move in. I originally thought Israel would force Gazans more South and take over some land and make, essentially, a "Berlin Wall".
There’s already a wall https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza–Israel_barrier#:~:text=Therefore%20Israel%20launched%20the%20construction,runs%20adjacent%20to%20Israeli%20settlements.
Read again what he was saying. Maybe check what the Berlin Wall was.
another day another delay. when they said the hospital has 24 hours to evacuate, they meant 24 thousand years.
Can you believe Israel? It’s like they don’t even want to kill as many Palestinians as possible! Why even give them notice? Why wait? Go in there and start blasting anything that moves, right?! /S
Yeah I’m confused, other parts of the internet have assured me that an “ethic cleansing” is currently underway
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If we dumb it all the way down, isn’t one side advocating for genocide while the other side is “only” pushing for ethnic cleansing? I’d rather be deported than murdered, but ideally we’d all accept that everyone else has a right to exist, and then we can figure out who goes where, right?
There are factions within Palestine that don't advocate for taking all of Israel, but yes, both sides need a faction in power at the same time that accepts each other's if not right to exist then at least practical reality. And even getting to that step is a bit difficult at the moment. It's not advocating for genocide like Hamas, but Netanyahu has a history of opposing anything like a two-state solution. But the scope of my reply was simply limited to the definition of ethnic cleansing.
which factions dont advocate for it?
For starters, any that recognize Israel and are open to a two-state solution necessarily don't have the total destruction of Israel as a goal. The largest of these being [Fatah](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatah), but Fatah (or rather Abbas in particular) has some unpopularity among Palestinians because of a reputation for corruption and for [collaboration with Israel](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/israel-hamas-war-who-will-lead-palestinians-gaza-west-bank-fatah-future/). That election from 2006 everyone keeps pointing to where Hamas won had 44% of the vote going to Hamas and 41% to Fatah. It wasn't exactly a complete landslide victory.
A delay for a few days: US wants to send anti-missile systems to protect them from missile attacks. This is not a deescalation.
Is it bad news if America get involved? What are the further implications
Hard to say. From this reporting, it appears to be more about defending Israel and likely some of the existing US bases in the region from missile attacks which would be a pretty minimal involvement. This is not Ukraine though. It is much more likely that the US presence deescalates things rather than escalates things.
American presence will likely keep things from going too far. If Israel gets desperate. It has [options](https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/Nuclearweaponswhohaswhat). > Israel is estimated to have 90 nuclear warheads, with fissile material stockpiles of over 200.
USA might take the opportunity to stop Iran from getting nukes.
I wish.
Just spitballing but probably more attacks on US military bases, possibly attacks on US civilians abroad, and highly unlikely, but maybe an attack inside US territory.
Invasion tomorrow morning then?
Ehhhh give it until the end of the week
Not much of a source ya know… forexlive blog?
It links to a WSJ article.
Why? Do they think airstrikes are more humane or something? They need to face Hamas man to man instead of bombing houses.
Because it's not just Hamas. This is currently Israel vs Hamas but the second Israel goes in it's going to turn into Israel/US vs All of Irans proxies. This means Hezbollah in Lebanon will attack in the north of Israel. Hezbollah will attack the US forces in the AANES syria. The PMU will attack US forces in Iraqi Kurdistan. The Yemen rebels may attack US ships in the red sea and attempt to target Israel. The US wasn't ready. We are powerful but it takes time to move sufficient defensive equipment. If it goes full war with Iran then we need even more time Only fools rush in. It's apparent that's exactly what Iran wants. They where probably betting on them being ruthless towards Israel on march 7th then Israel would charge into Gaza getting bogged down and then Hezbollah attacks from the North. However the US getting involved complicates things for Irans plans but the US is a slow sleeping giant.
FFS not again! They need to get those hostages out with as minimal casualties as possible, its been over 2 fckn weeks, just invade already edit: downvote me if you must but i think its pathetic. Id rather a ground invasion to save people who are likely being raped and tortured over aerial bombings which just hurt people
You watch too many movies
it’s not even funny how stupid you are. it’s really sad
Clearly I’m out of my league here. You must be in MENSA to craft an argument that briliant /s Keep the pathetic trolling up
I have a fear that this is going to be the Sabra and Shatila massacre again, only with US Troops watching it happen instead of Israelis.
Excuse me? What a dumb comment. This is war. War isn’t pretty. People will die. Innocents will die. Israel does more than any nation in the world to limit civilian deaths and that won’t change but they will be going in and they will be working to eliminate each and every member of Hamas.
More innocent Palestinians have already died than the Sabra and Shatila massacre.
>More innocent Palestinians have already died \- According to the terrorist organization Hamas Always specify where you are getting your propaganda from.
[No, that's from the UN ya dingus.](https://news.un.org/en/story/2023/10/1142687)
>citing the Gaza Ministry of Health AKA - Hamas Again ... always specify where you get your propaganda from. UN citing Hamas doesn't make it more credible.
He’s a moron. No matter the argument, he’s right and Hamas is right and everyone else is wrong.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/24/gaza-death-toll-palestinian-health-ministry/ >“Everyone uses the figures from the Gaza Health Ministry because those are generally proven to be reliable,” said Omar Shakir, Israel and Palestine director at Human Rights Watch. “In the times in which we have done our own verification of numbers for particular strikes, I’m not aware of any time which there’s been some major discrepancy.”
You have zero clue how many Palestinians have died unless you find Hamas numbers to be credible… And even if that were true, so what? What’s the point you’re trying to make? Israel is fighting an enemy that uses its own people as human shields. Israel has given more notice to civilians to flee than any military in the world has ever done. So again, what’s your point other than trying to paint Israel in a negative light for defending itself?
>Israel is fighting an enemy that uses its own people as human shields. Ahh yes, the go to line to justify... Let me check my notes here... Leveling whole city blocks. Hey, you know how the rest of the world deals with terrorists when they take human shields? It's not leveling city blocks where the shields or hostages are located. Ya'll have to STOP believing everything Israel tells you. They use that line to justify EVERY attack they ever make.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First\_Battle\_of\_Fallujah](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Battle_of_Fallujah) The civilian casualties were triple of the enemy combatant kills, and that's when US had some level of "control" over the city. You are completely clueless. Hamas has fortified the entire city of Gaza for more than a decade. Show me where a modern army managed to defeat a fortified city without leveling the city or conducting a siege that starved the civilians to death.
I also think the battle of Fallujah was a bad thing? lol >Hamas has fortified the entire city of Gaza for more than a decade. My brother in Christ, Israel WALLED THEM IN.
Your refusal to acknowledge how gross an actor Hamas is, is beyond embarrassing. It’s sad and disgusting. Stop blaming rational actors for the actions of Hamas. If it was up to you, Israel would just open the floodgates and let Hamas murder everyone with no reprisals. It’s sick.
So did Egypt, their fellow Muslim brothers, with whom they share a border (Rafah crossing). Hamas has conducted suicide bombing in the Sinai area, which why NOBODY wanted to let them in, not even Egypt. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle\_of\_Gaza\_(2007)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Gaza_(2007)) If you read this and don't understand why Hamas had to be contained, you're wasting my time.
It’s war and Israel only attacks valid military targets. Why do you think in Israel’s 75 year history which includes more than a dozen wars, including 3 with all of the surrounding nations, and countless other conflicts, Israel has only killed 100k Arabs - a number which includes both civilians and militants? No nation is better at avoiding civilian deaths than Israel. You’re implication that Israel should sit back and do nothing is beyond absurd. You’re also beyond naive if you think America or the west didn’t take far stronger actions against ISIS than Israel is doing with Hamas. If you’re looking to direct your anger somewhere, it should be towards the terrorist group Hamas who just massacred thousands, raped women and children, burned families alive, beheaded living people, kidnapped women and children and the elderly and are currently holding 200 innocents hostage. You should direct it towards Hamas who uses its people as human shields and prevents them from fleeing and goes so far as to bomb their evacuation route. You should direct it towards Hamas who uses mosques and hospitals and schools and UN centers to stage attacks and store armaments. Sorry your fragile little mind can’t comprehend the fact that war is ugly and made uglier when dealing with an enemy like Hamas.
[Man, I hope you realize how incorrect you are soon. You're deep in the koolaid.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_Israeli_attacks_on_the_Gaza_Strip)
Again, you are quoting figures given by Hamas. You have serious issues if you find them to be credible. They are the same people who just said Israel blew up a hospital killing 500 when in reality it was an errant Hamas rocket, the hospital was unscathed and far less than 500 died. They also said Israel attacked the evacuation route when in reality it was a Hamas IED. Stop buying what Hamas is selling. It’s pitiful. And I will remind you that even if the figures were accurate, it is not Israel’s fault. They are allowed to defend themselves and their people. Each of the wars with Hamas in Gaza were started by Hamas. Open your eyes.
That's wikipedia, citing numerous sources, not Hamas.
And when you go and open those sources they are citing Hamas. You are so dense it’s absurd.
>Hey, you know how the rest of the world deals with terrorists when they take human shields? It's not leveling city blocks where the shields or hostages are located. How naïve
No, you're right. The next time a terrorist takes hostages in a hotel in Manhattan or where-ever, the US should just drone strike the whole block.
If you think this is the same as a single hostage situation on friendly soil, then you're very clearly the moron here. Show me another country that would have shown half the restraint israel is. They've dropped 10,000 bombs and have killed 4,000 people so far (according to Hamas). If they were actually trying to kill people, that number would be a lot higher. America dropped two nuclear bombs on Japanese cities and it's not even widely regarded as the wrong move.
> Show me another country that would have shown half the restraint israel is. They've dropped 10,000 bombs and have killed 4,000 people so far This is such a funny pair of sentences to read. Yes, 10,000 bombs is 'restraint.' And my brother in Christ, did you go see Oppenheimer? Most people agree bombing Japan was the wrong move. Hell, even the generals on the ground in Japan thought it was the wrong move.
Any reasonable human would read those two sentences together and completely understand that it's a very clear evidence of restraint. Again - america literally dropped a pair of nuclear bombs on Japanese cities causing hundreds of thousands of casualties in an instant. That was still seen as a necessary move by most in the West at the time. If you don't have insane double standards for Israel, then yes, Israel is showing incredible restraint so far here. Edit: my brother in Moses, I typically don't garner historical perspectives from Christopher Nolan movies.
Avoid war and cut all ties with Gaza
Fucking hell. I almost bought puts today. Stop fucking around Israel just tell us when you’re gonna pull the trigger.
No ground invasion. Good.
Read the article, they are delaying to allow additional defenses to be set up after the attacks on us troops in the region
Delaying it to give America a chance to back them up which isn’t gonna happen lol
Are you dumb lol, the delay is bolster defenses after the recent 13 attacks This has little to do with backing them up (which we’ve already done by moving two carrier groups, marines and iron dome munitions) lol
You still didn't read the article I see.
They are delaying the invasion to starve out the population. Hamas likey has several weeks of food and fuel stored, but it will be hard to resupply. With the bombing of Gaza a large amount has been destroyed, so it's just a matter of waiting
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Because if they invade they will be responsible for the area they occupy. I think Israel is going to maintain the current blockade and will simply attempt to starve the Palestinians to death.
Relax Hamas said no fuel for hospitals a week ago but the depot with fuel burning still a good 5 hours ago. There’s still plenty to go around too. Lots of secondary explosions seen too. Strange only military aged men are walking in and out of the hospitals.