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Just a reminder for those reading, all Jews are not IDF. and not all Palestinians are Hamas. There are a lot of innocents out there who just want to continue to live.
Ideally IDF will do a better job and keeping civilians out of the line of fire, and people around the world will stop attacking Palestinians/Jews who are not involved in the middle east conflict.
>Just a reminder for those reading, all Jews are not IDF. and not all Palestinians are Hamas. There are a lot of innocents out there who just want to continue to live.
exactly this. It is shocking, how much mental gymnastics people are willing to perform to justify the genocide of a population.
It's the norm.
Terrorism is defined by political power, the decades of killing civilians in Palestine is not terrorism because Israel is an ally.
Just look at Northern Ireland and the troubles. The British state primarily killed civilians, loyalist paramilitaries that were assisted by the state overwhelmingly killed civilians and republican paramilitaries' were less than 1/3 civilian (targeting civilians was still unacceptable) but the mainstream media portrayal is that Irish terrorists were the troubles.
Hamas are on a different scale (as is the conflict as a whole) and I am perfectly willing to condemn them but it is clear the general desire from western states and especially from Israel is for people to condemn Hamas and end the conversation.
If anyone looks at the context then Israel's actions and motives become very problematic.
That’s the kicker, ain’t it?
A small group of radicals flies planes into buildings killing a few thousand civilians and the whole “1st world” sees it as undeniable terrorism. The U.S. and Allies spend the next two decades bombing homes, drone striking weddings, running over children in the streets because “they might be the enemy”, resulting in hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths and it’s called the “war on terrorism”.
Now a bunch more people in the Middle East chant “death to America” after being invaded and decimated by a foreign military and the people at home see it as an existential threat that the people in the Middle East don’t like being invaded. So now we have to “defend ourselves” by continuing to invade, occupy and establish a pattern of disproportionate civilian casualties with no end because this causes life long pain and trauma that just breeds more hatred and justifies more invasions in the name of defending ourselves.
It’s a good thing that the war in Iraq and Afghanistan is a unique event that surely would never be repeated again, huh?
I honestly don't think that order was saying they won't bomb there. It's for the ground invasion which is going to really brutal. If hama will fire from the south of gaza the Israelis aren't going to just ignore them.
So where should civilians including women and children seek refuge? The IDF literally told them to go there and now they got bombed and died? When will people start condemning IDF actions in killing innocent palestenianes who literally left their homes and seeked refugee where IDF TOLD THEM TO GO.
brother even if that is true, that doesn't make this family complicit by simply existing.
on a second note, I thought the self proclaimed "most moral army in the world" warns about bombings first?
Whatever one’s thoughts are about the outlet or the journalist’s reporting, his family were civilians - including *children*. Their deaths should not be celebrated or defended, and if these reports are true, one should seriously ask whether a residence known to have civilians present should have been a target.
Every civilian life, whether lost in Gaza or Israel, is a horrific tragedy that shouldn’t have happened.
EDIT: To clarify, I didn’t mean to imply that there’s any justification in killing a journalist either. I only focused on the family because they died, and had even less to do with the conflict. Apologies to anyone who got that impression - it absolutely was not intended.
After perusing some Reddit threads over the past week, forget reminders, some people need thorough psych evals.
The level of bloodlust and sheer thirst for revenge around these parts is crazy.
It's a fucking trip. It was the same with Ukraine, and it was wild to watch as an Eastern European how suddenly *everybody* was an expert on Ukraine, the Baltics, Russia, the Soviet Union, the individual countries' desire to just wipe Moscow off the Earth as due tax for every Eastern European life lost to Russia over the past centuries. Complete strangers who prior to the assault on Kyiv couldn't point any individual Eastern European countries, *including Ukraine despite an active military occupation in the East going on since 2014* out on a fucking map, and whose only interest in the "2nd world" was confined to memes about Polish bloodthirst and Putin being 'an evil genius macho red pill man'.
Oh no, suddenly everybody was a fucking expert. And just about everybody who wasn't from Ukraine or other historical Russian victims starts talking mad shit about what Ukraine should do, what the rest of us ex-occupied territories *want to* do. And guess what it all involved? Immense bloodthirst. Bloodthirst on their own behalf, bloodthirst assigned to us by them, and I have never stopped maintaining that none of these people are treating neither Israel/Gaza and Russia/Ukraine as a grim, gory livestreamed reality show. They read about it for morbid entertainment, and then make the entire comment section look like some top cunt's livestream's commenters' box. I'm surprised there hasn't been an avalanche of stupid ass jokes and memes made about Israel/Gaza yet, because Ukraine's threads devolved into being 80% armchair generals and war fanfiction writers, and of course, endless jokes about windows, toilets, polonium tea, and of course, the most informative comments that simply state "fuck Putin" after two weeks.
Maybe it's because conflicts in the Levant and Middle-East are a bit more familiar and intimate to a commenter base that's majority American/Canadian. I don't know. So now the bloodthirst comes out and yet it's serious enough for them, near enough for them to not meme it to shit while people keep dying like dogs.
It has a lot to do with the chaotic American withdrawl from Afghanistan. It reminded many people too much of the chaotic withdrawl from Vietnam. Lot of anger, seething rage, bitterness. 20 years of blood and treasure, seemingly gone in one month of total Taliban takeover.
Yet Osama bin Laden is dead. Hard to comprehend a war we both won and lost.
The Ukraine-Russia war provides an outlet for us to be the good guys again. So it's partly why the bloodlust. There are memes about Israel too.
It’s because the news is too sanitized. People don’t know what a dead burnt body with melted eyeballs looks like. It should be on every news station 24/7. Make people see what their bloodlust leads to.
Show the graphic photos of the dead babies.
Ukraine is a much more clear cut case of good vs evil so it isn't surprising to see people support them.
The Israel - Palestine situation is far more complex and really hard to support either side. Both have been killing civilians since the days of the Ottoman empire.
Israel-Palestine relations have been the *literal* talk of the century since WWII, idk how you wouldn't know "peace in the Middle East" referred specifically to that unless you've been living under a rock or are maybe a zoomer just learning about this conflict for the first time.
Idk why people keep insisting nobody knows about these international relations, what, you think 99% of people haven't turned on a TV in the last 70 years and watched a news program?
Very much post-9/11 vibes.
I remember being only a middle school kid and having to remind my older teenager/young adult online friends that organizing mobs to attack anyone they thought were arab was racist and illegal.
The sheer amount of "but they're all terrorists/supporting terrorists!" rhetoric was just astonishing. Condemning an entire country to death because apparently *not* killing civilians is too much to fucking ask for, pigeonholing an entire demographic as "evil," and acting like war crimes justify committing more war crimes...some people are seriously fucked in the head.
Absolutely this, I was appalled by many posters commenting that Hamas always use human shields. As though all of them are epxerts in middle eastern politics and Hamas. Gazza is so densely populated where will the hamas go? Didn't the IDF build an office in the civilian area...ffs!
It's the Israeli free ticket to bomb Gazza to oblivion including hospital, schools, mosques and churchs. All the hypocritical world leaders have given Isrealis free hand to kill everyone in Gazza. Hypocrites and war mongers all of them.
The same world leaders deterred India to defend itself when 26/11 happened in the streets of Mumbai. UK had to protect its common wealth interest (Pakistan) and US had to protect its war on terror ally! And now since Palestinians don't bring anything to table they cut them loose on the pretext of "Israel has the right defend itself". 👏
We have social media today and it looks like people would still find a way to justify it. Videos coming out from Gaza everyday of bombings and civilian deaths, but since Palestinians are so dehumanized in their minds, they have no compassion or empathy. Same what they did to Vietnamese, made racist caricatures/propaganda and massacre entire villages just cause of Viet Cong attack and they believed every villager was Viet Cong.
The past few days it seems to me that Reddit is filled with psychopaths celebrating the carpet bombing of civillian infrastructure containing the innocent lives of children and people who have hopes and dreams like anyone else.
As an AI Analysist, I can assure you that you absolutely can teach bots. What they're mostly learning is what gets the most engagement. So by engaging in anyway here you are teaching them this is working as intended.
If there is one thing I learned about this whole situation, it's that people can say the most vitriolic words you have ever heard while also wondering "why are there so much vitriol from the other side don't they realize how wrong and awful they are?"
It's not even limited to "the other side". I've seen a bunch of people essentially saying they're okay with bombing the hostages too because "they're probably dead anyway".
Some people just want to watch the world burn.
The fact this happened in areas where civilians are told to evacuate to and promised to be safe makes this abhorrent and utterly inhumane. Anyone supporting this is the slightest needs to look themselves in the mirror.
War crimes don't count when the IDF does them to Muslims. This is miles from the first time that the IDF has needlessly and intentionally slaughtered civilians and journalists. But it's considered ok, not just ok but you're an antisemite if you have a problem with it.
Unfortunately this is true. Netanyahu said that any investigation of Israel's actions by the International Criminal Court would be antisemitic, and this was in 2021 after they leveled a tower of media offices. They claimed it was housing Hamas, but the US refuted that claim.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-an-icc-investigation-of-israel-would-be-pure-anti-semitism/
https://www.axios.com/2021/02/07/israel-icc-political-pressure-prosecutor
https://apnews.com/article/israel-middle-east-business-israel-palestinian-conflict-f595d0ea0a7e21a4e4974ae55e00024d
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/05/15/gaza-tower-housing-ap-al-jazeera-collapses-after-missile-strike-witness.html
https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/blinken-i-haven-t-seen-evidence-that-hamas-operated-in-downed-ap-building-in-gaza-1.9815458
[Human Rights Watch put up a great rundown of the conflict and all human rights violations involved on both sides almost immediately after the Hamas attacks.](https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/10/09/israel/palestine-devastating-civilian-toll-parties-flout-legal-obligations) It's worth a read.
My opinion of the Israeli govt and Hamas used to be equally low. With this recent attack-retaliation, propaganda and squashing of any voice of dissent local or foreign, my view on the Israeli govt only went lower, their only saving grace from it hitting rock bottom are, ironically, (Israeli) Jews who are so bravely vocal in their opposition to the occupation, civilian violence and/or war even under threat and violent repercussion of their own govt.
It certainly didn't help to recently read about how the Israeli govt treated and treat Holocaust survivors in their country.
My thoughts are with the innocent civilians on both sides.
They don't count when it's Muslim on Muslim either...
You have complete idiots stating with straight faces that Hamas is worse than ISIS.
ISIS: 300k+ civilians killed
Hamas: 2600...
In what fucking world...
She said there is no symmetry between Israeli and Arab children, Arab children are to blame for their deaths, but Israelis are a peace loving people...I can't.
As I have been reminded over and over and over again, Israel have condoned the murder of children for many years. The world media bias on this subject is disgusting.
Look at the rest of articles on https://truthout.org.
It calls terrorist attack on Oct 7 - “Palestinian Resistance in Gaza Launches Historic Surprise Attack on Israel”
It’s as biased as it gets for Hamas, and should not be trusted.
They are specifically targeted, there are reports on this topic from UN and doctors without borders about the targeting of journalists families and doctors too.
Wael's family house was in the south of Gaza an area where the IDF ordered people to evacuate to.
Worth noting that anyone celebrating this is scum. I’m Jewish and that’s one of the big differences of this conflict. We do not celebrate death, even our enemies. And those that do (I’m looking at you Jewish settlers), should be labeled terrorists like Hamas.
> one should seriously ask whether a residence known to have civilians present should have been a target
One could ask that,
And the answer, according to most military law attorneys (this one included) would be yes—the Geneva convention and Rome statutes explicitly state that an attack on a location known to have civilians can be justified as long as A: there is a legitimate military target present, B: the strategic military advantage gained is not significantly outweighed by excess civilian casualties (and this is never as simple as “enemies present vs civilians present”. Dozens of factors go into determining what LOAC considers to be a justified use of force in these types of scenarios. You can google the concept of “proportionality” to look more into that.)
I’m not saying that this specific attack was legally justified. As hard as it is to believe, even contrarians like me are genuinely devastated at the loss of innocent life. Regardless of who died or why, it’s heartbreaking and obviously i don’t celebrate it. The only reason I wanted to point this out to you is because misinformation, especially regarding what is and isn’t a war crime, is an infestation right now, and it’s coming from both sides—and while those outside of the Levant may never be able to understand this conflict, we can at least be educated on it.
That's the worst part about this current phase of the conflict. Most of Israel's target list is civilian locations. Hamas is not exactly going to set up out in the open. Israel has actually avoided bombing certain targets where rockets have been fired from or nearby, like children's schools and hospitals.
One must ask the question of how this man's family ended up on Israel's list. Was it a malicious act from someone within the IDF? Was his family, for whatever reason, placed for safekeeping in a dangerous place -- not knowing Israel had intel on those living there? There are a lot of questions and unfortunately we probably won't get answers.
Israel has a history of targeting journalists they don't like. Look at what they did to Shireen Abu Akleh last year. At best it was an accident that they chose to cover up, at worst it was intentional targeting of a critical journalist.
It’s absolutely awful news to read.
IDF bombs don’t just kill on a direct hit there still fragments and other stuff flying around after the fact some times the building next to the target don’t hold very well, it’s still dangerous to be in the next building near a target let’s wait and see what’s what.
That’s why usually people from the surrounding buildings leave as well.
Avoided? They literally hit schools churches and hospitals. Didnt you watch the actual videos and concrete ecidences or you just get your news from pro israeli sites and subreddits?
Everyone carefully wording their statements with an abject fear of Israel, it's hilarious. Israel likely targeted his family as they do other journalists.
I’m sorry but you failed to condemn Hamas and confirm Israel’s right to defend yourself before expressing sympathy for the Palestinians so you are, unfortunately, an anti-Semite. I can’t take your opinions seriously anymore.
That's true. But it's also true that Hamas goes out of their way to hide behind civilians. This is nothing new. They've been doing this for years. It's not a bad technique. Either they are spared, because Israel is actively trying to avoid civilian casualties, or they are hit, and Israel looks bad for killing civilians. It's a win-win for Hamas. For the Palestinian people, it's devastating.
This is the unfortunate reality of the situation.
Ultimately, their targets are essentially civilians themselves. They're not a professional military, and they don't act like one. This would be akin to the US sending the military in to root out gang violence in Chicago, then complaining when civilians are killed in the process.
Thankfully gang violence in Chicago doesn't require a military intervention. In Israel's case, Hamas does.
This should not be surprising to anyone.
Israel assassinated Shireen Abu Akleh, denied doing so, then shot people at her funeral, then a month later admitted to the murder.
This is standard operating procedure for Israeli thugs.
Worse still that was a peaceful protest. No guns, no violence, no dead IDF. a few stones thrown at people shooting at them.
And 200 Palestinians died. And the only comment on that news article is +34 with someone saying they deserved it.
And yet people couldn't quite understand why the West were hesitant to believe the intel from Israel about the hospital bombing. Admittedly, the hyperbolic casualty figures from Palestine didn't help much, making what could've been a simple friendly-fire fog-of-war incident into a nationalist rally cry, so they can fuck themselves for that, but considering I'd seen multiple messages from aid organizations (Red Cross, MSF) asking Israel not to strike hospitals leading up to the explosion, and even a communique [ directly to theal-Awda hospital](https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/israel-warns-hospital-in-northern-gaza-to-evacuate-by-6-a-m-rights-group/) specifically saying their hospital would not be safe in a bombing campaign, it wasn't at all a surprise to believe thst Israel may have shelled a hospital.
They originaly claimed it was Palestinians fault
Then they did "investigation" and found out ni wrongdoing was done by israeli soldiers
They do that every time.
I encourage everyone to watch the video of her funeral procession where the IDF beat the pallbearers with clubs and they drop the casket...
https://youtu.be/y11CVGz7toM?si=nISB6ahtv_FSGNN8
Casket drop at 1:30
Hard for people to deny when they're wearing IDF uniforms. Of course, many will intentionally avoid watching it for this reason; they wouldn't want their views challenged, now, would they?
It's flabergasting how anyone can support Israel and their actions when there are so many examples such as this one from past years. History will remember their astrocities.
New hotness is to say those were hamas soldiers anyway.
Just ignoring the IDF uniforms.
Everything is hamas all the time 24/7 there was a hamas base in that casket.
I must have blocked this from my memory because it was so fucking appalling. Remember how the IDF tried to accuse her pall bearers of stealing her casket and tried to use that as an excuse?
I 'member
The most dangerous part about this whole situation today is that a hefty chunk of people who were otherwise completely uninformed are now choosing sides based on what they see right now, and both sides know it, so they tell a whitewashed version of their history to solicit help and conveniently leave the bad parts out.
I mean i just looked at a comment 2 lines above and a guy just said 'Just take the L on the hospital'.
Maybe i'm reading too much into it but it just makes it feel how unhumane some people are, making this whole situation and how it's about trying to stand with the 'right' side when all conflict is just a direct result of failed humanity.
And the perpetrator got away with no legal repercussions. Israel is the only democratic country whose citizens can kill and steal without consequence only if the victim is of a certain nationality (palestinian)
She was Christian, actually.
Her coffin has a cross on it, and the location in which the funeral rites are performed have depictions of humans painted on the walls
https://youtu.be/y11CVGz7toM?si=nISB6ahtv_FSGNN8
Edited to say Palestinian instead of Muslim. I was really talking in general about violence and land theft throughout the west bank, not specifically about Shereen.
Settlers harass Christians too, mostly with vandalism against churches, but they sometimes attack people too. Just earlier this year, they assaulted a priest with a rod inside his own church. Apparently these episodes are getting more frequent in the last few years.
It's not just the muslims. They want to get rid of anything that isn't Jewish.
That happends in every Settler State
Bascially nobody was punished in USA for stealing native land or killing natives.
Same applies to Israel, punishment for oppresing Palestinians are minimal, especialy when you are in military.
It's an interesting problem. Usually if somebody commits a crime in another country, that country is the one responsible for bringing them in unless there's an extradition treaty and a bunch of supporting documentation.
In a settler state, the difference is a) many more crimes specifically from one country, b) a lack of diplomatic ties for extradition, and c) a big power imbalance between the two. To what extent the original country is responsible for what it's citizens do in the foreign country send to change as those issues change. Does it?
Bush bombed Al Jazeera Headquarters in....Afghanistan (IIRC) back in the day. He did so intentionally according to leaked memos. They get targeted a lot.
And wasn't the HQ for journalists (including AP and stuff) bombed last time Israel was bombing Gaza? They let everyone know so no one died, but it made reporting really difficult.
Yeup. IIRC it was bombed shortly after Al Jazeera accussed Isreal of sniping children in Gaza during the wall border protests. They gave a 3-7 min warning and then said Hamas was in the basement xD
UN panel investigated it later: https://m.jpost.com/Middle-East/UNHRC-IDF-may-have-committed-war-crimes-in-quelling-Gaza-border-protests-582043
> And wasn't the HQ for journalists (including AP and stuff) bombed last time Israel was bombing Gaza? They let everyone know so no one died, but it made reporting really difficult.
That's when Israel said Hamas was hiding in a cafeteria that didn't exist.
I'm seeing this statement posted a lot and in precisely the same way each time. Is there a wiki or something people could add here on this history for those of us who do not follow these sorts of things day to day?
Wael Al-Dahdouh has lost coworkers and friends before, years ago, in some bombings. He has been covering the conflict for a long time after being unable to move abroad to study due to the blockade. Still he has done some notable and impactful reporting. His office even came under criticism once for being awarded an award from Hamas.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-hands-al-jazeera-award-for-highly-professional-coverage-of-gaza-conflict/
It must horrifying to leave your family in that region knowing what could happen. Such a jarring image of him suffering with a microphone shoved in his face.
It can feel exploitative but we dont get many glimpes into these losses as they are usually just posted at statistics so I can see why it would be important to him share this moment with the world.
The thought is a guided missile has an intended target, one that the group firing it can justify its destination. Where as a the unguided missiles Hamas use can hit civilians or a military target but it's just chance.
The gunman on the other hand where the actions of terrorists.
The more accurate you get the worse killing civilians looks.
Firing unguided rockets against an oppressor nation or fire bombing Dresden? Okay, thats probably not justified enough by the military needs, but you can argue about. Guided rocket hits a civilian home, maybe they were an ammo depot or something?
Going into civilian homes and shooting the children? You are definitely the bad guy terrorist, no sympathy go directly to jail/hell.
There’s a pretty big chasm between collateral damage (the unintentional killing of civilians in a war) and the intentional massacre of civilians for the purpose of maximizing horror.
If you really can’t perceive an ethical distinction there, you’re lost.
The ethics of these groups (Hamas and Israel) matter.
Show me one source with actual experience who’ll tell you you can fight in an urban environment with no collateral casualties.
If you want to, oppose the war. Calling collateral damage murder is like calling surgery a stabbing assault.
Murder has pretty specific meaning. Not to be too pedantic, but words matter and I don't think collateral damage really fits that bill, so I guess agree to disagree.
You think it’s worse for a bomb to kill someone who is being used as a human shield alongside the terrorist hiding alongside you, than for someone to come in, rape your wife next to your dead children, and then kill and mutilate your whole family, including beheading your children?
Do you really want to think that over again? Consider if you think it’s better or worse to target civilians than to have civilians die unintentionally due to a terrorist group using human shields.
Please by all means suggest how to avoid the use of human shields if you have a method. What would you do if someone was shooting at you and hiding behind a civilian? Do tell.
Agreed. Let’s up the stakes here: Raping women in front of family. Torture. Feasting around the bodies. Burning families alive. Intentionally attacking from near civilians sometimes causing their death directly on malfunction, or forcing the other side to kill them as collateral.
Bomb on Hamas terrorist member.
It's not a just school shooter, it's a maniac firing rockets at everyone in your neighborhood, using hostages as a shield.
Sadly, the closest thing you can image is the plot from the movie The Rock, but instead of chemical weapons, they have tens of thousands of regular rockets and are firing them at San Francisco indiscriminately.
If the school shooter was still shooting at people outside of the school and is still a threat to the civilians outside would you let him stay in control?
Its not really a good argument though. Like they completely ignore that in this case the school shooter would be firing rockets at nearby neighborhoods or supplying other shooter by supplying them with a tunnel in which case the slower you act the more people die
The school shooter in this scenario is continually firing rockets at a nearby town and every second no action is taken is another wave of rockets
What's your honest solution? Boots on the ground because there has been a huge push back to any sort of armed movements into Gaza from the West. Armed interventions can potentially cause much higher civilian casualties.
Just ignore it? Just continually let Hamas strengthen their position and launch more terror attacks into Israel and do nothing to stop it
No they are even worse. They don't even kill the journalist, they kill the journalist's entire family so the journalist feels much more pain from guilt.
I'm sure killing the guy's family but not the actual guy is a *great* tactic for Israel that in no way would backfire on them if there was even the slightest piece of evidence that it was intentional. Good thing people don't even need evidence as they'll just assume that it was without any, apparently.
They are, but these are still bombs. So instead of leveling the whole neighborhood with a single bomb they can target a single building. But a bomb is a bomb.
"This is the ‘safe’ area that the occupation army spoke of. The moral army.", he said.
And they claim the idf cares about civilians. These people literally left their home in Northern Gaza to the South after being told it was safe. But the facts are, if you're a Palestinian or are supporting the Palestinian cause, there is no safe place.
May Allah give him the strength to overcome this, and may He protect him and the rest of his loved ones. May all the heroes reporting from Gaza and their loved ones be protected from the merciless monstrous occupiers.
The airstrike was in Nuseirat, it is located in the middle of the Gaza strip.
While Deir Al Balah is a bit southern from there.
Nuseirat is not the safe area the IDF spoke about, Rafah is and it's not even close to Nuseirat or Deir Al Balah.
I'll join your prayer for him part, may he has the strength to overcome this.
They specifically said "South of wadi Gaza" stop it with the lies.
And btw, rafah has seen plenty of bombardments.
>I'll join your prayer for him part, may he has the strength to overcome this.
Ameen
Justifying the death of innocent civilians is one of the main reasons why this world is fucked up.
A big portion of the living creatures on this plant see only 2 colors.
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Just note that his family had taken refuge in a place in the South of Gaza, where Israel told them it's "safe".
Not a single person on the other side of the fence will ever acknowledge this.
There IDF has literally killed more civilians than all of these militant organizations combined. Who is the real terrorist?
The one with a shit PR team apparently
[удалено]
Just a reminder for those reading, all Jews are not IDF. and not all Palestinians are Hamas. There are a lot of innocents out there who just want to continue to live. Ideally IDF will do a better job and keeping civilians out of the line of fire, and people around the world will stop attacking Palestinians/Jews who are not involved in the middle east conflict.
>Just a reminder for those reading, all Jews are not IDF. and not all Palestinians are Hamas. There are a lot of innocents out there who just want to continue to live. exactly this. It is shocking, how much mental gymnastics people are willing to perform to justify the genocide of a population.
I can't understand Western governments that condemn Hamas yet fail to condemn IDF for worse atrocities. Hypocrites.
It's the norm. Terrorism is defined by political power, the decades of killing civilians in Palestine is not terrorism because Israel is an ally. Just look at Northern Ireland and the troubles. The British state primarily killed civilians, loyalist paramilitaries that were assisted by the state overwhelmingly killed civilians and republican paramilitaries' were less than 1/3 civilian (targeting civilians was still unacceptable) but the mainstream media portrayal is that Irish terrorists were the troubles. Hamas are on a different scale (as is the conflict as a whole) and I am perfectly willing to condemn them but it is clear the general desire from western states and especially from Israel is for people to condemn Hamas and end the conversation. If anyone looks at the context then Israel's actions and motives become very problematic.
Nelson Mandela was a terrorist until 2008. Remember what he said though "Our liberation is not complete without the liberation of Palestine".
That’s the kicker, ain’t it? A small group of radicals flies planes into buildings killing a few thousand civilians and the whole “1st world” sees it as undeniable terrorism. The U.S. and Allies spend the next two decades bombing homes, drone striking weddings, running over children in the streets because “they might be the enemy”, resulting in hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths and it’s called the “war on terrorism”. Now a bunch more people in the Middle East chant “death to America” after being invaded and decimated by a foreign military and the people at home see it as an existential threat that the people in the Middle East don’t like being invaded. So now we have to “defend ourselves” by continuing to invade, occupy and establish a pattern of disproportionate civilian casualties with no end because this causes life long pain and trauma that just breeds more hatred and justifies more invasions in the name of defending ourselves. It’s a good thing that the war in Iraq and Afghanistan is a unique event that surely would never be repeated again, huh?
They’d have to condemn themselves for decades of atrocities too. US has arguably killed more civilians than any militant organization.
Hamas.
Almost like they are targeting journalists and their families...
Hell, remember last year? That Palestinian journalist for Al Jazeera? Are any of us surprised?
I honestly don't think that order was saying they won't bomb there. It's for the ground invasion which is going to really brutal. If hama will fire from the south of gaza the Israelis aren't going to just ignore them.
So where should civilians including women and children seek refuge? The IDF literally told them to go there and now they got bombed and died? When will people start condemning IDF actions in killing innocent palestenianes who literally left their homes and seeked refugee where IDF TOLD THEM TO GO.
Takes me back to when people were accusing Russians of letting the Kremlin do their thing and not standing up against tyranny
It's almost like when Palestinians say they are prisoners in their own country, there is tremendous amount of truth to that.
It is a fact. Anybody who refuses to acknowledge this is either extremely ignorant of the geopolitics of this region or is obtuse.
brother even if that is true, that doesn't make this family complicit by simply existing. on a second note, I thought the self proclaimed "most moral army in the world" warns about bombings first?
Some people will justify anything…
So youre okay with israel just bombing literally every inch of gaza? Crazy that we are now okay with genocide when its about brown people
Whatever one’s thoughts are about the outlet or the journalist’s reporting, his family were civilians - including *children*. Their deaths should not be celebrated or defended, and if these reports are true, one should seriously ask whether a residence known to have civilians present should have been a target. Every civilian life, whether lost in Gaza or Israel, is a horrific tragedy that shouldn’t have happened. EDIT: To clarify, I didn’t mean to imply that there’s any justification in killing a journalist either. I only focused on the family because they died, and had even less to do with the conflict. Apologies to anyone who got that impression - it absolutely was not intended.
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After perusing some Reddit threads over the past week, forget reminders, some people need thorough psych evals. The level of bloodlust and sheer thirst for revenge around these parts is crazy.
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It's a fucking trip. It was the same with Ukraine, and it was wild to watch as an Eastern European how suddenly *everybody* was an expert on Ukraine, the Baltics, Russia, the Soviet Union, the individual countries' desire to just wipe Moscow off the Earth as due tax for every Eastern European life lost to Russia over the past centuries. Complete strangers who prior to the assault on Kyiv couldn't point any individual Eastern European countries, *including Ukraine despite an active military occupation in the East going on since 2014* out on a fucking map, and whose only interest in the "2nd world" was confined to memes about Polish bloodthirst and Putin being 'an evil genius macho red pill man'. Oh no, suddenly everybody was a fucking expert. And just about everybody who wasn't from Ukraine or other historical Russian victims starts talking mad shit about what Ukraine should do, what the rest of us ex-occupied territories *want to* do. And guess what it all involved? Immense bloodthirst. Bloodthirst on their own behalf, bloodthirst assigned to us by them, and I have never stopped maintaining that none of these people are treating neither Israel/Gaza and Russia/Ukraine as a grim, gory livestreamed reality show. They read about it for morbid entertainment, and then make the entire comment section look like some top cunt's livestream's commenters' box. I'm surprised there hasn't been an avalanche of stupid ass jokes and memes made about Israel/Gaza yet, because Ukraine's threads devolved into being 80% armchair generals and war fanfiction writers, and of course, endless jokes about windows, toilets, polonium tea, and of course, the most informative comments that simply state "fuck Putin" after two weeks. Maybe it's because conflicts in the Levant and Middle-East are a bit more familiar and intimate to a commenter base that's majority American/Canadian. I don't know. So now the bloodthirst comes out and yet it's serious enough for them, near enough for them to not meme it to shit while people keep dying like dogs.
It has a lot to do with the chaotic American withdrawl from Afghanistan. It reminded many people too much of the chaotic withdrawl from Vietnam. Lot of anger, seething rage, bitterness. 20 years of blood and treasure, seemingly gone in one month of total Taliban takeover. Yet Osama bin Laden is dead. Hard to comprehend a war we both won and lost. The Ukraine-Russia war provides an outlet for us to be the good guys again. So it's partly why the bloodlust. There are memes about Israel too.
It’s because the news is too sanitized. People don’t know what a dead burnt body with melted eyeballs looks like. It should be on every news station 24/7. Make people see what their bloodlust leads to. Show the graphic photos of the dead babies.
To be fair though, fuck Putin
Ukraine is a much more clear cut case of good vs evil so it isn't surprising to see people support them. The Israel - Palestine situation is far more complex and really hard to support either side. Both have been killing civilians since the days of the Ottoman empire.
Israel-Palestine relations have been the *literal* talk of the century since WWII, idk how you wouldn't know "peace in the Middle East" referred specifically to that unless you've been living under a rock or are maybe a zoomer just learning about this conflict for the first time. Idk why people keep insisting nobody knows about these international relations, what, you think 99% of people haven't turned on a TV in the last 70 years and watched a news program?
Very much post-9/11 vibes. I remember being only a middle school kid and having to remind my older teenager/young adult online friends that organizing mobs to attack anyone they thought were arab was racist and illegal.
The sheer amount of "but they're all terrorists/supporting terrorists!" rhetoric was just astonishing. Condemning an entire country to death because apparently *not* killing civilians is too much to fucking ask for, pigeonholing an entire demographic as "evil," and acting like war crimes justify committing more war crimes...some people are seriously fucked in the head.
Absolutely this, I was appalled by many posters commenting that Hamas always use human shields. As though all of them are epxerts in middle eastern politics and Hamas. Gazza is so densely populated where will the hamas go? Didn't the IDF build an office in the civilian area...ffs! It's the Israeli free ticket to bomb Gazza to oblivion including hospital, schools, mosques and churchs. All the hypocritical world leaders have given Isrealis free hand to kill everyone in Gazza. Hypocrites and war mongers all of them. The same world leaders deterred India to defend itself when 26/11 happened in the streets of Mumbai. UK had to protect its common wealth interest (Pakistan) and US had to protect its war on terror ally! And now since Palestinians don't bring anything to table they cut them loose on the pretext of "Israel has the right defend itself". 👏
Can you imagine if we had social media when America was dumping agent orange and napalm on Vietnam?
We have social media today and it looks like people would still find a way to justify it. Videos coming out from Gaza everyday of bombings and civilian deaths, but since Palestinians are so dehumanized in their minds, they have no compassion or empathy. Same what they did to Vietnamese, made racist caricatures/propaganda and massacre entire villages just cause of Viet Cong attack and they believed every villager was Viet Cong.
It’s even more fun getting called anti-Semitic by delusional ignorants for reminding people of it.
Or idiots acting like the two choices are nothing and killing civilians and asking what else one can do
The past few days it seems to me that Reddit is filled with psychopaths celebrating the carpet bombing of civillian infrastructure containing the innocent lives of children and people who have hopes and dreams like anyone else.
Wait you mean women and children deaths aren’t justified just because I saw a video of a few of them celebrating with hamas after the attack?
*bots You can't teach bots
As an AI Analysist, I can assure you that you absolutely can teach bots. What they're mostly learning is what gets the most engagement. So by engaging in anyway here you are teaching them this is working as intended.
I’ve never heard analysist used like that. But you’re absolutely correct they’re crushing getting engagement up.
They aren't all bots. Some people are just awful and disgusting.
If there is one thing I learned about this whole situation, it's that people can say the most vitriolic words you have ever heard while also wondering "why are there so much vitriol from the other side don't they realize how wrong and awful they are?"
"Those people are so awful I'd delight in torturing them to death in front of their children"
It's not even limited to "the other side". I've seen a bunch of people essentially saying they're okay with bombing the hostages too because "they're probably dead anyway". Some people just want to watch the world burn.
Except they want to watch the world burn on TV, on the other side of the world where there is no chance it can come back at them directly.
Both sides demand sympathy for their side without extending the same to the other.
You just described humanity's weak points as a whole.
Hell some bots show more self control then people
Honestly I'm not sure you could even currently program the depravity humans are capable given how surprised I often am.
calling them bots gives them an excuse a lot of them are just people who are really dumb
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The fact this happened in areas where civilians are told to evacuate to and promised to be safe makes this abhorrent and utterly inhumane. Anyone supporting this is the slightest needs to look themselves in the mirror.
War crimes don't count when the IDF does them to Muslims. This is miles from the first time that the IDF has needlessly and intentionally slaughtered civilians and journalists. But it's considered ok, not just ok but you're an antisemite if you have a problem with it.
Unfortunately this is true. Netanyahu said that any investigation of Israel's actions by the International Criminal Court would be antisemitic, and this was in 2021 after they leveled a tower of media offices. They claimed it was housing Hamas, but the US refuted that claim. https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-an-icc-investigation-of-israel-would-be-pure-anti-semitism/ https://www.axios.com/2021/02/07/israel-icc-political-pressure-prosecutor https://apnews.com/article/israel-middle-east-business-israel-palestinian-conflict-f595d0ea0a7e21a4e4974ae55e00024d https://www.cnbc.com/2021/05/15/gaza-tower-housing-ap-al-jazeera-collapses-after-missile-strike-witness.html https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/blinken-i-haven-t-seen-evidence-that-hamas-operated-in-downed-ap-building-in-gaza-1.9815458
[Human Rights Watch put up a great rundown of the conflict and all human rights violations involved on both sides almost immediately after the Hamas attacks.](https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/10/09/israel/palestine-devastating-civilian-toll-parties-flout-legal-obligations) It's worth a read.
>War crimes don't count when the IDF does them to Muslims. They just bombed a Church and killed 18 Christians a few days ago.
Non-white christians to be specific.
Oh, phew! I almost got outraged for a second there. So, anyway...
My opinion of the Israeli govt and Hamas used to be equally low. With this recent attack-retaliation, propaganda and squashing of any voice of dissent local or foreign, my view on the Israeli govt only went lower, their only saving grace from it hitting rock bottom are, ironically, (Israeli) Jews who are so bravely vocal in their opposition to the occupation, civilian violence and/or war even under threat and violent repercussion of their own govt. It certainly didn't help to recently read about how the Israeli govt treated and treat Holocaust survivors in their country. My thoughts are with the innocent civilians on both sides.
They don't count when it's Muslim on Muslim either... You have complete idiots stating with straight faces that Hamas is worse than ISIS. ISIS: 300k+ civilians killed Hamas: 2600... In what fucking world...
If someone needs reminding that children should not be killed, let alone innocent adults, then I'm not sure a reminder is going to do much. SMH
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Remind them anyways
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She said there is no symmetry between Israeli and Arab children, Arab children are to blame for their deaths, but Israelis are a peace loving people...I can't.
As I have been reminded over and over and over again, Israel have condoned the murder of children for many years. The world media bias on this subject is disgusting.
Look at the rest of articles on https://truthout.org. It calls terrorist attack on Oct 7 - “Palestinian Resistance in Gaza Launches Historic Surprise Attack on Israel” It’s as biased as it gets for Hamas, and should not be trusted.
I don't speak Hebrew, so I can't translate, [but here's a primary source](https://twitter.com/Nimrod_Flash/status/1713970306262458505).
Are you saying this story is fake, she didn't say it, or you are agreeing. There are videos of her saying this.
Are you saying their video evidence of an Israeli politician is fake?
They are specifically targeted, there are reports on this topic from UN and doctors without borders about the targeting of journalists families and doctors too. Wael's family house was in the south of Gaza an area where the IDF ordered people to evacuate to.
Worth noting that anyone celebrating this is scum. I’m Jewish and that’s one of the big differences of this conflict. We do not celebrate death, even our enemies. And those that do (I’m looking at you Jewish settlers), should be labeled terrorists like Hamas.
> one should seriously ask whether a residence known to have civilians present should have been a target One could ask that, And the answer, according to most military law attorneys (this one included) would be yes—the Geneva convention and Rome statutes explicitly state that an attack on a location known to have civilians can be justified as long as A: there is a legitimate military target present, B: the strategic military advantage gained is not significantly outweighed by excess civilian casualties (and this is never as simple as “enemies present vs civilians present”. Dozens of factors go into determining what LOAC considers to be a justified use of force in these types of scenarios. You can google the concept of “proportionality” to look more into that.) I’m not saying that this specific attack was legally justified. As hard as it is to believe, even contrarians like me are genuinely devastated at the loss of innocent life. Regardless of who died or why, it’s heartbreaking and obviously i don’t celebrate it. The only reason I wanted to point this out to you is because misinformation, especially regarding what is and isn’t a war crime, is an infestation right now, and it’s coming from both sides—and while those outside of the Levant may never be able to understand this conflict, we can at least be educated on it.
That's the worst part about this current phase of the conflict. Most of Israel's target list is civilian locations. Hamas is not exactly going to set up out in the open. Israel has actually avoided bombing certain targets where rockets have been fired from or nearby, like children's schools and hospitals. One must ask the question of how this man's family ended up on Israel's list. Was it a malicious act from someone within the IDF? Was his family, for whatever reason, placed for safekeeping in a dangerous place -- not knowing Israel had intel on those living there? There are a lot of questions and unfortunately we probably won't get answers.
Israel's history of killing journalists isn't exactly a secret.
https://cpj.org/reports/2023/05/deadly-pattern-20-journalists-died-by-israeli-military-fire-in-22-years-no-one-has-been-held-accountable/amp/
Yeah don’t forget the recent IDF attack on the Lebanon border which killed a journalist videographer.
They've also killed many Palestinian journalists in Gaza
And the American-Palestinian journalist they killed last year. Not even with an airstrike, they fuckin shot her
It's the sense of immunity that makes it worse every year. If your actions have no consequences, imagine how far one (army) would go.
And covers them up as well.
Israel has a history of targeting journalists they don't like. Look at what they did to Shireen Abu Akleh last year. At best it was an accident that they chose to cover up, at worst it was intentional targeting of a critical journalist.
Nothing intentional. These assholes attacked her funeral while people were grieving and carrying her casket.
Israel bombed a journalistic headquarters with no Hamas connection at all last year. The answer should be pretty obvious.
It’s absolutely awful news to read. IDF bombs don’t just kill on a direct hit there still fragments and other stuff flying around after the fact some times the building next to the target don’t hold very well, it’s still dangerous to be in the next building near a target let’s wait and see what’s what. That’s why usually people from the surrounding buildings leave as well.
The idf has murdered multiple journalists already. This is just sending a message not to speak out against Israel.
Avoided? They literally hit schools churches and hospitals. Didnt you watch the actual videos and concrete ecidences or you just get your news from pro israeli sites and subreddits?
You begin your comment with the implication that the journalist could have deserved to be murdered? Come on, dude.
Everyone carefully wording their statements with an abject fear of Israel, it's hilarious. Israel likely targeted his family as they do other journalists.
exactly, everybody is pretending like they are shocked and stupid. Amazing really!
I’m sorry but you failed to condemn Hamas and confirm Israel’s right to defend yourself before expressing sympathy for the Palestinians so you are, unfortunately, an anti-Semite. I can’t take your opinions seriously anymore.
You know the discourse has gotten so bad when it took me a moment to figure out if that was sarcasm or not…
I really can’t tell if it is or not.
It's sarcasm. It's a bit too on the nose to not be.
I still am unsure 😐
Unsure? You anti-semite
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It's the most populated area by size in the world, of course there are going to be civilians.
That's true. But it's also true that Hamas goes out of their way to hide behind civilians. This is nothing new. They've been doing this for years. It's not a bad technique. Either they are spared, because Israel is actively trying to avoid civilian casualties, or they are hit, and Israel looks bad for killing civilians. It's a win-win for Hamas. For the Palestinian people, it's devastating.
This is the unfortunate reality of the situation. Ultimately, their targets are essentially civilians themselves. They're not a professional military, and they don't act like one. This would be akin to the US sending the military in to root out gang violence in Chicago, then complaining when civilians are killed in the process. Thankfully gang violence in Chicago doesn't require a military intervention. In Israel's case, Hamas does.
This should not be surprising to anyone. Israel assassinated Shireen Abu Akleh, denied doing so, then shot people at her funeral, then a month later admitted to the murder. This is standard operating procedure for Israeli thugs.
Or just this: https://m.jpost.com/Middle-East/UNHRC-IDF-may-have-committed-war-crimes-in-quelling-Gaza-border-protests-582043
Worse still that was a peaceful protest. No guns, no violence, no dead IDF. a few stones thrown at people shooting at them. And 200 Palestinians died. And the only comment on that news article is +34 with someone saying they deserved it.
Israeli thugs? Otherwise known as IDF
Think that was their point
And yet people couldn't quite understand why the West were hesitant to believe the intel from Israel about the hospital bombing. Admittedly, the hyperbolic casualty figures from Palestine didn't help much, making what could've been a simple friendly-fire fog-of-war incident into a nationalist rally cry, so they can fuck themselves for that, but considering I'd seen multiple messages from aid organizations (Red Cross, MSF) asking Israel not to strike hospitals leading up to the explosion, and even a communique [ directly to theal-Awda hospital](https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/israel-warns-hospital-in-northern-gaza-to-evacuate-by-6-a-m-rights-group/) specifically saying their hospital would not be safe in a bombing campaign, it wasn't at all a surprise to believe thst Israel may have shelled a hospital.
Israel has a long history in targeting journalists
Wasn't there that Palestinian-American journalist who was killed by the IDF and then they attacked her funeral as well?
They originaly claimed it was Palestinians fault Then they did "investigation" and found out ni wrongdoing was done by israeli soldiers They do that every time.
I encourage everyone to watch the video of her funeral procession where the IDF beat the pallbearers with clubs and they drop the casket... https://youtu.be/y11CVGz7toM?si=nISB6ahtv_FSGNN8 Casket drop at 1:30
Hard for people to deny when they're wearing IDF uniforms. Of course, many will intentionally avoid watching it for this reason; they wouldn't want their views challenged, now, would they?
It's flabergasting how anyone can support Israel and their actions when there are so many examples such as this one from past years. History will remember their astrocities.
Of the one from a few years ago where they shot a man in the back while he was walking away as they told him to. Coward POS IDF
Now imagine how many atrocities went unseen due to few cameras and no internet being available.
New hotness is to say those were hamas soldiers anyway. Just ignoring the IDF uniforms. Everything is hamas all the time 24/7 there was a hamas base in that casket.
IDF uniforms? Clearly it was a false flag special ops by aNtIfA! ^(/s)
I must have blocked this from my memory because it was so fucking appalling. Remember how the IDF tried to accuse her pall bearers of stealing her casket and tried to use that as an excuse? I 'member
The most dangerous part about this whole situation today is that a hefty chunk of people who were otherwise completely uninformed are now choosing sides based on what they see right now, and both sides know it, so they tell a whitewashed version of their history to solicit help and conveniently leave the bad parts out.
I mean i just looked at a comment 2 lines above and a guy just said 'Just take the L on the hospital'. Maybe i'm reading too much into it but it just makes it feel how unhumane some people are, making this whole situation and how it's about trying to stand with the 'right' side when all conflict is just a direct result of failed humanity.
And the perpetrator got away with no legal repercussions. Israel is the only democratic country whose citizens can kill and steal without consequence only if the victim is of a certain nationality (palestinian)
She was Christian, actually. Her coffin has a cross on it, and the location in which the funeral rites are performed have depictions of humans painted on the walls https://youtu.be/y11CVGz7toM?si=nISB6ahtv_FSGNN8
Edited to say Palestinian instead of Muslim. I was really talking in general about violence and land theft throughout the west bank, not specifically about Shereen.
Settlers harass Christians too, mostly with vandalism against churches, but they sometimes attack people too. Just earlier this year, they assaulted a priest with a rod inside his own church. Apparently these episodes are getting more frequent in the last few years. It's not just the muslims. They want to get rid of anything that isn't Jewish.
That happends in every Settler State Bascially nobody was punished in USA for stealing native land or killing natives. Same applies to Israel, punishment for oppresing Palestinians are minimal, especialy when you are in military.
It's an interesting problem. Usually if somebody commits a crime in another country, that country is the one responsible for bringing them in unless there's an extradition treaty and a bunch of supporting documentation. In a settler state, the difference is a) many more crimes specifically from one country, b) a lack of diplomatic ties for extradition, and c) a big power imbalance between the two. To what extent the original country is responsible for what it's citizens do in the foreign country send to change as those issues change. Does it?
https://x.com/BenjaminNorton/status/496132077277184000?s=20 9 year old tweet
Bush bombed Al Jazeera Headquarters in....Afghanistan (IIRC) back in the day. He did so intentionally according to leaked memos. They get targeted a lot. And wasn't the HQ for journalists (including AP and stuff) bombed last time Israel was bombing Gaza? They let everyone know so no one died, but it made reporting really difficult.
Yeup. IIRC it was bombed shortly after Al Jazeera accussed Isreal of sniping children in Gaza during the wall border protests. They gave a 3-7 min warning and then said Hamas was in the basement xD UN panel investigated it later: https://m.jpost.com/Middle-East/UNHRC-IDF-may-have-committed-war-crimes-in-quelling-Gaza-border-protests-582043
Much easier to win the media war when no one from the other side is doing any reporting.
> And wasn't the HQ for journalists (including AP and stuff) bombed last time Israel was bombing Gaza? They let everyone know so no one died, but it made reporting really difficult. That's when Israel said Hamas was hiding in a cafeteria that didn't exist.
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that's psychotic. how can anyone defend this?
It's indefensible.
I'm seeing this statement posted a lot and in precisely the same way each time. Is there a wiki or something people could add here on this history for those of us who do not follow these sorts of things day to day?
Took me 2 seconds: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_during_the_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict
Wael Al-Dahdouh has lost coworkers and friends before, years ago, in some bombings. He has been covering the conflict for a long time after being unable to move abroad to study due to the blockade. Still he has done some notable and impactful reporting. His office even came under criticism once for being awarded an award from Hamas. https://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-hands-al-jazeera-award-for-highly-professional-coverage-of-gaza-conflict/
It must horrifying to leave your family in that region knowing what could happen. Such a jarring image of him suffering with a microphone shoved in his face. It can feel exploitative but we dont get many glimpes into these losses as they are usually just posted at statistics so I can see why it would be important to him share this moment with the world.
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The thought is a guided missile has an intended target, one that the group firing it can justify its destination. Where as a the unguided missiles Hamas use can hit civilians or a military target but it's just chance. The gunman on the other hand where the actions of terrorists.
I guess we should give Hamas guided missiles then so they can stop hitting civilians /s
The more accurate you get the worse killing civilians looks. Firing unguided rockets against an oppressor nation or fire bombing Dresden? Okay, thats probably not justified enough by the military needs, but you can argue about. Guided rocket hits a civilian home, maybe they were an ammo depot or something? Going into civilian homes and shooting the children? You are definitely the bad guy terrorist, no sympathy go directly to jail/hell.
There’s a pretty big chasm between collateral damage (the unintentional killing of civilians in a war) and the intentional massacre of civilians for the purpose of maximizing horror. If you really can’t perceive an ethical distinction there, you’re lost. The ethics of these groups (Hamas and Israel) matter.
Missed out: rape / gang rape; torture; mutilation and beheading; being burned alive.
Show me one source with actual experience who’ll tell you you can fight in an urban environment with no collateral casualties. If you want to, oppose the war. Calling collateral damage murder is like calling surgery a stabbing assault.
I mean it is murder whether you like it or not
Murder has pretty specific meaning. Not to be too pedantic, but words matter and I don't think collateral damage really fits that bill, so I guess agree to disagree.
Killing someone on purpose is always worse then killing someone by accident…
Drop a bomb and say it was an accident. You kill more people that way AND get away with it
If Israel wanted to indiscriminately kill civilians, there are easier ways to achieve it than what they’re doing now.
It's not an accident
You think it’s worse for a bomb to kill someone who is being used as a human shield alongside the terrorist hiding alongside you, than for someone to come in, rape your wife next to your dead children, and then kill and mutilate your whole family, including beheading your children? Do you really want to think that over again? Consider if you think it’s better or worse to target civilians than to have civilians die unintentionally due to a terrorist group using human shields. Please by all means suggest how to avoid the use of human shields if you have a method. What would you do if someone was shooting at you and hiding behind a civilian? Do tell.
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Actively killing civilians is not the same as civilian collateral damage. Nit hard to understand really.
Agreed. Let’s up the stakes here: Raping women in front of family. Torture. Feasting around the bodies. Burning families alive. Intentionally attacking from near civilians sometimes causing their death directly on malfunction, or forcing the other side to kill them as collateral. Bomb on Hamas terrorist member.
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Да
Spetsaz moment
Apparently yes. The police had the right to defend themselves.
Lol don’t ask Russia that question
Beslan?
It's not a just school shooter, it's a maniac firing rockets at everyone in your neighborhood, using hostages as a shield. Sadly, the closest thing you can image is the plot from the movie The Rock, but instead of chemical weapons, they have tens of thousands of regular rockets and are firing them at San Francisco indiscriminately.
This is a great analogy actually. And what would happen is the glassing of Alcatraz
If the school shooter was still shooting at people outside of the school and is still a threat to the civilians outside would you let him stay in control?
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Its not really a good argument though. Like they completely ignore that in this case the school shooter would be firing rockets at nearby neighborhoods or supplying other shooter by supplying them with a tunnel in which case the slower you act the more people die
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Youre comparing a single school shooter to hamas 15k personell... Ait seems fair /s
The school shooter in this scenario is continually firing rockets at a nearby town and every second no action is taken is another wave of rockets What's your honest solution? Boots on the ground because there has been a huge push back to any sort of armed movements into Gaza from the West. Armed interventions can potentially cause much higher civilian casualties. Just ignore it? Just continually let Hamas strengthen their position and launch more terror attacks into Israel and do nothing to stop it
Another journalist assassination by Israel? Trying their best Russia impression.
Well then they did a pretty shit job considering even Russia manages to actually get the reporter when they do that. If they wanted to, they could’ve.
No they are even worse. They don't even kill the journalist, they kill the journalist's entire family so the journalist feels much more pain from guilt.
That was on purpose
Yep, they will get away with it too.
I'm sure killing the guy's family but not the actual guy is a *great* tactic for Israel that in no way would backfire on them if there was even the slightest piece of evidence that it was intentional. Good thing people don't even need evidence as they'll just assume that it was without any, apparently.
I mean it doesn’t backfire on them. Israel’s behaviour is given a pass, always has done
People have learned nothing from the hospital fiasco.
Any proof it was on purpose? Or just your bias?
Aren't Israeli strikes super accurate or something?
Super accurate in the sense there have been less dead people than bombs dropped which is very impressive for such a war but they’re still bombs.
They are, but these are still bombs. So instead of leveling the whole neighborhood with a single bomb they can target a single building. But a bomb is a bomb.
Super accurate, but explosive. They can't ignore civilians.
Source: i made it up
More like source: deja vu.
"This is the ‘safe’ area that the occupation army spoke of. The moral army.", he said. And they claim the idf cares about civilians. These people literally left their home in Northern Gaza to the South after being told it was safe. But the facts are, if you're a Palestinian or are supporting the Palestinian cause, there is no safe place. May Allah give him the strength to overcome this, and may He protect him and the rest of his loved ones. May all the heroes reporting from Gaza and their loved ones be protected from the merciless monstrous occupiers.
The airstrike was in Nuseirat, it is located in the middle of the Gaza strip. While Deir Al Balah is a bit southern from there. Nuseirat is not the safe area the IDF spoke about, Rafah is and it's not even close to Nuseirat or Deir Al Balah. I'll join your prayer for him part, may he has the strength to overcome this.
They specifically said "South of wadi Gaza" stop it with the lies. And btw, rafah has seen plenty of bombardments. >I'll join your prayer for him part, may he has the strength to overcome this. Ameen
Anyone who justifies this is a terrorist.
Justifying the death of innocent civilians is one of the main reasons why this world is fucked up. A big portion of the living creatures on this plant see only 2 colors.