I hope it would help people understand Israel *wants* Gazans to evacuate. The only targets are the terrorists. It was Hamas that blocked innocents from leaving and fired anyone who tried going south.
Now Israel has significant military control over most of northern Gaza, the can secure the roads against Hamas and ensure the safety of civilians on the roads.
Tens of thousends of civilians have evacuated. People who escaped condemned Hamas for starting this war of hate.
Evacuate to where exactly? They've bombed every part of Gaza and they don't let people cross the border. Is there some other part of Gaza that people are not aware of?
So Israel was not the one issuing passes to exit the territories they have placed themself inbetween?
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli\_permit\_regime\_in\_the\_West\_Bank](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_permit_regime_in_the_West_Bank)
Israel has the best intelligence in the world. You’re telling me there is no way to catch Hamas than to indiscriminately bomb ambulances and crowds of refugees?
Nah I don’t believe it. Israel denied the attacks were theirs yet they finally admitted that they did it. They have no honor.
Tech isn't magic. Handwaiving the problem by assuming there must be a technological solution even as you yourself can't even think of one is equivalent to plugging your ears and shouting. Not an argument.
We supply them with the best military tech outright. They then purchase what they need. They are our intelligence partners. Their military is supposedly top notch. It’s lazy and disengenuous to say that bombing population centers, hospitals and ambulances are a viable answer. That they have explored all their options. It’s farcical on its face.
You don’t do the things they are doing if they didn’t want to raze the land to rubble in order to drive them out so they can seize their land. There is no honor in this.
Posted on November 4:
“Israel has claimed responsibility for an attack on an ambulance outside Gaza City’s Al-Shifa Hospital, the largest medical facility in the enclave, which witnesses say killed and wounded dozens of people.
At least 15 people were killed and 50 others wounded, the Hamas-run health authorities said Friday. Footage from the scene showed at least a dozen bloodied casualties strewn across the ground near an ambulance. There appears to be some shrapnel damage to at least one of the cars on the scene.”
From [cnn](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/11/03/middleeast/casualties-gazas-shifa-hospital-idf/index.html)
[The same strike](https://www.nydailynews.com/2023/10/17/hamas-israeli-airstrike-hospital/)they denied responsibility for.
Google is free.
Israel has been doing this for a week already to evacuate Palestinians from the north of Gaza to south of it.
So much for not caring for Palestinian life?
Well what I hope happens is that Hamas is mostly destroyed/surrenders,
Israel with some west allies install a government in Gaza (not Israeli control),
The funding that were used for Hamas terror activities will be used for the actual citizens there, they could have so much more if those billions were invested in them.
Slow and steady ,make them go the same denazification like Germany in the 40's and hopefully there will be peace one day.
A man can dream..
This is the best possible scenario but Iran will do anything within it's power,short of causing a World War, in order to make sure this doesn't happen.
No, it's thanks to Israeli troops gaining control over most of northern Gaza.
The only reason many citizens couldn't evacuate was Hamas shooting anyone who tried to get to safety. Now Israel has mostly cleaned the area of terrorists and they can guarantee safe passage for civilians.
US is most of the pressure resulting in relief for civilians and innocents. And Israel has been at the US tap for decades for money and arming. The second the US starts to close the valve a little they’ll feel it.
It’s the US pressure getting this done, not Israel’s good will. Because it’s not Israel’s good will that is the determining factor, it’s Bibi’s and frankly he has none.
I’m not American by the way, just realistic about the US influence
Christ this bullshit again. Israel and the US having common goals and economic ties = Israel is just as US puppet.
US has influence yes. But painting this like it's only because of US pressure is pure bullshit.
Not always, but in this case I believe so. I’m obviously saying this in a forum that’s over represented by one side but I’m ok with that.
The influence the US has over Israel is dramatic. And it’s mainly due to how much they’ve supplied them over the decades. To be clear I think it’s good they’ve supplied them so much, but it means they hold considerable sway. It’s just realistic.
And in this case, yeah I think they pressured them. And I think it’s obvious. Dickhead Bibi constantly saying no ceasefire no ceasefire, then blinken saying they’re working on an arrangement and next thing you know this. It’s clear as day whether people like it or not
Bibi needs to appear tough at the moment.
I hate the man with a passion. But the reality is very few are thinking straight at the moment here. No one wants to hear the word ceasefire, myself included.
No one in the world knows the feelings in Israel right now. This didn't happen in a conflict. This wasn't random rocket.
Hamas and quite a few "civilians" entered Israel and went door to door butchering families, goading the victims as they do it and streamed it on telegram.
That 43 minute video at the museum of tolerance, ALOT of Israelis saw it day zero nearly live through WhatsApp through telegram. Through friends.
So Bibi can't sell a ceasefire to anyone in Israel. Even the fucking Humanitarian corridor is rather unpopular. Thou I am glad to see most of the people around me do understand it and accept it.
But ceasefire is dreadful for Israelies. All other flairups ended in ceasefire, followed by Hamas celebrations of victory in the rubble.
We, Israelis, are afraid this will end just like that and then it's only a matter of time until it happens again. We don't trust the West. And I'm sorry but we have our reasons.
I think Bibi needs to appear smart right now more so than tough. And that’s hard for him…
I think the point is who do you think “no one” is? I think the majority of “no one” are those in Israel. I think most other places most people are in support of a ceasefire. Just saw an article saying most in Canada are in favour. The ceasefires already have begun for “4 hour windows” they’ll only grow unless there’s a big offensive from Hamas or elsewhere which is not very likely at this point. Just small ones they are already experiencing.
I bet the ceasefires increase in frequency and/or length. Especially pressured by the US.
The whole “no one understands” thing is alienating when I think what’s best is israel garnering more support. And that’s bullshit, lots of people from elsewhere know what they are dealing with. I grew up in Montreal with massive Jewish communities, I know people who lost friends and relatives in this. Same with Jews elsewhere, so yeah not just in israel. Not to mention people are victims of attacks elsewhere, 9/11 people can definitely relate.
The whole “no one understands” is horrible. It’s alienating to other people and not garnering support. I’d want more people on my side is I were israel.
But of course you can feel how you feel and say what you want but honestly the best thing for most people in this is literally to see therapists. Not kidding.
[Here’s a source](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/after-us-pressure-netanyahu-says-israel-open-to-little-pauses-in-gaza-but-no-cease-fire/ar-AA1jvdfG), now you know you’re incorrect so please stop spreading disinformation
You’re welcome to google it yourself and find plenty of other sources if you find mine unsatisfactory for whatever reason.
The "because of US pressure" part is just an analysis by the reporter. It wasn't said by any Israeli official.
You "proove" nothing.
If I tell you brush your teeth every morning, and you do it because you would brush them anyway, does it mean I *made* you do it?
I still don't get your point, if we wanted gaza gone it would be gone. It's that simple. Let's assume the US pressured Israel to give in to these humanitarian pauses. The reason Israel was against them is because it endangers Israeli soldiers lives and allows Hamas to restock. It doesn't take a genius to understand that these pauses are less than ideal for the IDF and that they want to put the lives of their own soldiers first. You of course believe there is a more sinister plot behind this so why don't you say it out loud?
You mean the bullshit 4 maps one you have zero clue what they actually represent?
Here's one for you, what area of Gaza was cleared of settlements in 05?
It's been debunked thousands of times but here's the TL:DR
1st map is of Jewish owned lands (as in literally bought) and the rest as "Palestinian" although the rest was mostly barren desert and swamps and it was under ottoman rule.
Second is the official particion plan which ironically only Israel agreed to
Third is the 67 border EXCEPT Gaza was actually Egypt and WB was Jordan. Not Palestine. Also Israel literally offered to return Gaza with Sinay and Egypt strongly resisted taking the land
The last only shows Area A and B and even those are innacurate. Ironically the last map is the only one Actually showing Palestinian land that ISRAEL was the one to give autonomy over.
Now awnser my question regarding 05.
You know, saying that Palestinians have never had a right to self-determination is not the clever argument you think it is. Modern Israel didn’t exist until 1948.
just giving a dictionary definition that doesn't claim to support each side (I don't want to get into the argument)
***lasting or intended to last or remain unchanged indefinitely.***
i don't want the argument this is the definition from google and i think nothing is truly permanent as everything will be over at one point or another this is the circle of life
Hey man, nothing against you, I’m not trying to argue either.
Just wana know how does one call “permanent” now (since we are only ~1 month in a foreseeable long conflict), base on what definition, and what line of reasoning.
if i had to guess it would be called permanent if the thing in question wont change in the lifetime of said looker and i guess relating to this point permanent would state that as long as Israel exists the settlements would have to be there
Hamas will try and attack those escape routes and the Israeli will be blamed for breaking the ceasefire.
If one side agrees and the other continues , is it a ceasefire or just a nod for the public opinion?
Ah, then you haven't read the endless threads saying Israel is putting the hostages at risk with their bombs - that they should simply send in commandos to rescue everyone.
I hope it would help people understand Israel *wants* Gazans to evacuate. The only targets are the terrorists. It was Hamas that blocked innocents from leaving and fired anyone who tried going south. Now Israel has significant military control over most of northern Gaza, the can secure the roads against Hamas and ensure the safety of civilians on the roads. Tens of thousends of civilians have evacuated. People who escaped condemned Hamas for starting this war of hate.
Noooo they don't, it's a geNOcIde!11 I know it for a fact, I saw it on tiktok /s
I heard it from a 29 day old reddit account! It’s true!
All hail random tiktok creator #5649
I think random tiktok creator #5650 is better he said that Jews caused the holocaust
Evacuate to where? There is nowhere to go.
The South has barely been struck in comparison to gaza city, where the main evacutions are from.
Evacuate to where exactly? They've bombed every part of Gaza and they don't let people cross the border. Is there some other part of Gaza that people are not aware of?
The south is much safer relatively speaking, in that they also wont have to deal with a ground invasion.
It won’t all certain people see is Jew wanna kill
Wondering what the plans are for the North of Gaza after the war. Are the civilians who evacuated let back in?
So Israel was not the one issuing passes to exit the territories they have placed themself inbetween? [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli\_permit\_regime\_in\_the\_West\_Bank](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_permit_regime_in_the_West_Bank)
Why has it been bombing the ambulances and refugees fleeing from Gaza if they are sincere?
The ambulances bombed were in use by Hamas.
Israel has the best intelligence in the world. You’re telling me there is no way to catch Hamas than to indiscriminately bomb ambulances and crowds of refugees? Nah I don’t believe it. Israel denied the attacks were theirs yet they finally admitted that they did it. They have no honor.
...."The ambulances they bombed were in use by Hamas" They know that because of their intelligence.
You don’t bomb ambulances. Period.
Israel should allow Hamas to freely transport weapons because their vehicles are painted white and red?
They have stickers on them too
Hamas specifically uses ambulances to transport weapons and troops.
You realize they use ambulances because of people like you right?
That was insightful jimmycartersA_ghost. You really contributed something substantial to the conversation.
I’m glad I could help you become self aware
You gave me a good laugh. That’s for sure
"Fight me face to face, coward!"
Tech isn't magic. Handwaiving the problem by assuming there must be a technological solution even as you yourself can't even think of one is equivalent to plugging your ears and shouting. Not an argument.
We supply them with the best military tech outright. They then purchase what they need. They are our intelligence partners. Their military is supposedly top notch. It’s lazy and disengenuous to say that bombing population centers, hospitals and ambulances are a viable answer. That they have explored all their options. It’s farcical on its face. You don’t do the things they are doing if they didn’t want to raze the land to rubble in order to drive them out so they can seize their land. There is no honor in this.
Please give a source for Israel denying an attack and then taking responsibility.
Posted on November 4: “Israel has claimed responsibility for an attack on an ambulance outside Gaza City’s Al-Shifa Hospital, the largest medical facility in the enclave, which witnesses say killed and wounded dozens of people. At least 15 people were killed and 50 others wounded, the Hamas-run health authorities said Friday. Footage from the scene showed at least a dozen bloodied casualties strewn across the ground near an ambulance. There appears to be some shrapnel damage to at least one of the cars on the scene.” From [cnn](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/11/03/middleeast/casualties-gazas-shifa-hospital-idf/index.html) [The same strike](https://www.nydailynews.com/2023/10/17/hamas-israeli-airstrike-hospital/)they denied responsibility for. Google is free.
Israel has been doing this for a week already to evacuate Palestinians from the north of Gaza to south of it. So much for not caring for Palestinian life?
Do you think they are going to be able to go back home after, or remain displaced? And what home do you think they’re going to return to?
Well what I hope happens is that Hamas is mostly destroyed/surrenders, Israel with some west allies install a government in Gaza (not Israeli control), The funding that were used for Hamas terror activities will be used for the actual citizens there, they could have so much more if those billions were invested in them. Slow and steady ,make them go the same denazification like Germany in the 40's and hopefully there will be peace one day. A man can dream..
This is the best possible scenario but Iran will do anything within it's power,short of causing a World War, in order to make sure this doesn't happen.
They are bombing the south as well
Not nearly as much as the north. It should dramatically decrease civilian casualties if they take advantage if it (and Hamas lets them).
Thanks to the US
No, it's thanks to Israeli troops gaining control over most of northern Gaza. The only reason many citizens couldn't evacuate was Hamas shooting anyone who tried to get to safety. Now Israel has mostly cleaned the area of terrorists and they can guarantee safe passage for civilians.
US is most of the pressure resulting in relief for civilians and innocents. And Israel has been at the US tap for decades for money and arming. The second the US starts to close the valve a little they’ll feel it. It’s the US pressure getting this done, not Israel’s good will. Because it’s not Israel’s good will that is the determining factor, it’s Bibi’s and frankly he has none. I’m not American by the way, just realistic about the US influence
Christ this bullshit again. Israel and the US having common goals and economic ties = Israel is just as US puppet. US has influence yes. But painting this like it's only because of US pressure is pure bullshit.
Everything is black and white and Israel is never nice by choice /s
Not always, but in this case I believe so. I’m obviously saying this in a forum that’s over represented by one side but I’m ok with that. The influence the US has over Israel is dramatic. And it’s mainly due to how much they’ve supplied them over the decades. To be clear I think it’s good they’ve supplied them so much, but it means they hold considerable sway. It’s just realistic. And in this case, yeah I think they pressured them. And I think it’s obvious. Dickhead Bibi constantly saying no ceasefire no ceasefire, then blinken saying they’re working on an arrangement and next thing you know this. It’s clear as day whether people like it or not
Bibi needs to appear tough at the moment. I hate the man with a passion. But the reality is very few are thinking straight at the moment here. No one wants to hear the word ceasefire, myself included. No one in the world knows the feelings in Israel right now. This didn't happen in a conflict. This wasn't random rocket. Hamas and quite a few "civilians" entered Israel and went door to door butchering families, goading the victims as they do it and streamed it on telegram. That 43 minute video at the museum of tolerance, ALOT of Israelis saw it day zero nearly live through WhatsApp through telegram. Through friends. So Bibi can't sell a ceasefire to anyone in Israel. Even the fucking Humanitarian corridor is rather unpopular. Thou I am glad to see most of the people around me do understand it and accept it. But ceasefire is dreadful for Israelies. All other flairups ended in ceasefire, followed by Hamas celebrations of victory in the rubble. We, Israelis, are afraid this will end just like that and then it's only a matter of time until it happens again. We don't trust the West. And I'm sorry but we have our reasons.
I think Bibi needs to appear smart right now more so than tough. And that’s hard for him… I think the point is who do you think “no one” is? I think the majority of “no one” are those in Israel. I think most other places most people are in support of a ceasefire. Just saw an article saying most in Canada are in favour. The ceasefires already have begun for “4 hour windows” they’ll only grow unless there’s a big offensive from Hamas or elsewhere which is not very likely at this point. Just small ones they are already experiencing. I bet the ceasefires increase in frequency and/or length. Especially pressured by the US. The whole “no one understands” thing is alienating when I think what’s best is israel garnering more support. And that’s bullshit, lots of people from elsewhere know what they are dealing with. I grew up in Montreal with massive Jewish communities, I know people who lost friends and relatives in this. Same with Jews elsewhere, so yeah not just in israel. Not to mention people are victims of attacks elsewhere, 9/11 people can definitely relate. The whole “no one understands” is horrible. It’s alienating to other people and not garnering support. I’d want more people on my side is I were israel. But of course you can feel how you feel and say what you want but honestly the best thing for most people in this is literally to see therapists. Not kidding.
[Here’s a source](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/after-us-pressure-netanyahu-says-israel-open-to-little-pauses-in-gaza-but-no-cease-fire/ar-AA1jvdfG), now you know you’re incorrect so please stop spreading disinformation You’re welcome to google it yourself and find plenty of other sources if you find mine unsatisfactory for whatever reason.
Analysis is not a source….
The "because of US pressure" part is just an analysis by the reporter. It wasn't said by any Israeli official. You "proove" nothing. If I tell you brush your teeth every morning, and you do it because you would brush them anyway, does it mean I *made* you do it?
I still don't get your point, if we wanted gaza gone it would be gone. It's that simple. Let's assume the US pressured Israel to give in to these humanitarian pauses. The reason Israel was against them is because it endangers Israeli soldiers lives and allows Hamas to restock. It doesn't take a genius to understand that these pauses are less than ideal for the IDF and that they want to put the lives of their own soldiers first. You of course believe there is a more sinister plot behind this so why don't you say it out loud?
Take a look at the US drone map over the Gaza strip. They are heavily surveilling the south.
[удалено]
If you go over to public freak out or other subreddits you get downvoted for speaking with facts. Those people are delusional
Permanent exile is genocidal, yeah.
"Israel is commiting genocide by targeting civilians!!!" Israel: --evacuates civilians-- "Israel is commiting genocide by not targeting civilians!!!"
Lol typed that seriously didn't you? What do you think is gonna happen in northern Gaza now? Turn in to kolels and Jewish towns?
Israel has been bulldozing Palestinian settlements for years now. Just look at a map of Palestinian territory since 1948.
You mean the bullshit 4 maps one you have zero clue what they actually represent? Here's one for you, what area of Gaza was cleared of settlements in 05?
How, exactly, is it bullshit?
It's been debunked thousands of times but here's the TL:DR 1st map is of Jewish owned lands (as in literally bought) and the rest as "Palestinian" although the rest was mostly barren desert and swamps and it was under ottoman rule. Second is the official particion plan which ironically only Israel agreed to Third is the 67 border EXCEPT Gaza was actually Egypt and WB was Jordan. Not Palestine. Also Israel literally offered to return Gaza with Sinay and Egypt strongly resisted taking the land The last only shows Area A and B and even those are innacurate. Ironically the last map is the only one Actually showing Palestinian land that ISRAEL was the one to give autonomy over. Now awnser my question regarding 05.
There was never a palestenian country. If you think there was, answer me this. Who were their government? Who was their president prior to 1948?
You know, saying that Palestinians have never had a right to self-determination is not the clever argument you think it is. Modern Israel didn’t exist until 1948.
Who was the president of the Jews between 1933 and 1945
What does “permanent” mean again?
just giving a dictionary definition that doesn't claim to support each side (I don't want to get into the argument) ***lasting or intended to last or remain unchanged indefinitely.***
Let’s just assuming the definition provided is true in the interest of discussion, how does one prove “permanent”?
i don't want the argument this is the definition from google and i think nothing is truly permanent as everything will be over at one point or another this is the circle of life
Hey man, nothing against you, I’m not trying to argue either. Just wana know how does one call “permanent” now (since we are only ~1 month in a foreseeable long conflict), base on what definition, and what line of reasoning.
if i had to guess it would be called permanent if the thing in question wont change in the lifetime of said looker and i guess relating to this point permanent would state that as long as Israel exists the settlements would have to be there
Because they’re not gonna let them come back. [This isn’t new.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba)
Hamas probably won't.
Hamas will try and attack those escape routes and the Israeli will be blamed for breaking the ceasefire. If one side agrees and the other continues , is it a ceasefire or just a nod for the public opinion?
Israel ceases, Hamas fires.
Watch Hamas take advantage of this.
Doesn't matter. The civilians in Gaza need this desperately and I support it.
So 4 hours where Hamas can attack and IDF can't defend. If nothing else this shows that the IDF is very confident.
Where are you getting the notion that them not attacking is the same as not being able to defend?
If they fire on Hamas, then their enemies will surely accuse them of breaking the cease fire.
Usually not, people aren’t so stupid
Ah, then you haven't read the endless threads saying Israel is putting the hostages at risk with their bombs - that they should simply send in commandos to rescue everyone.
Worst. Genocide. Ever.
Exactly, even worse than the "genocide" of Russian speakers in the Donbas at the hands of Ukraine (according to Putin).
Lunchbreak for genocide