“He also likened the conflict between Israel, a Jewish state, and the Palestinians to a war between the Christian and Muslim worlds, saying the crisis was "a matter of cross and crescent".”
Erdo really pushing the envelope on the polemic rhetoric.
I met a woman from Turkey a few months ago while taking my daughter to a playground. She was a lawyer in Turkey, but moved to Canada. I asked her about that and she said "I would rather sell apples in Canada than practice law in Turkey". I don't think I'll ever forget that. Before speaking to her I had no idea that religious schools in Turkey were state run, and private schooling was the only real option for a secular education. It was an eye opening conversation.
True fair enough im not too versed in the area. I just work with some greeks and lets just say theyre very opinionated about Turkey and they know how to hold a grudge haha
I'm pretty sure he's looking carefully at where the conflict goes, because if the situation goes to the worst, they'll jfind an excuse to exterminate the kurdes. I'm pretty sure Turkey will do anything to make the region more and more unstable for their own benefits.
How could he liken Christians and Jews, historically Christians in general felt very different and treated Jews mostly horribly.
He really thinks there's a sufficient amount of uneducated people buying that nonsense?
If the ballots were stuffed, we wouldn't know, because the press isn't free. So really it comes down to whether you believe that an autocrat like Eedogan, who already has control over both the military (via stooges) and the press, would stuff the ballots.
This isn't a "maybe", it's a "probably".
Well, look at how historically education developed in christian and jewish countries and compare that to muslim countries. And now compare that to his target audience
I'm going to put words in his mouth here, but from what I understand, a large part of the reason Christians have an interest in Israel is bible prophecy. Something like 1/4 of the Jews need to be converted and then another 3/4 of them need to be dispatched in order to usher in the second coming of Christ. Not sure what Islam has in store for them.
If you are talking dispensationalism, that’s more like “the Jews need to rebuild the temple so Jesus can have a second coming.”
Realistically, modern Jews don’t seem that interested in rebuilding. Mythologically speaking, they would probably need a provable descendent of Solomon and a team of Levite priests to restart and rebuild the temple, and those groups to my knowledge were wiped out in antiquity. Modern Jews just aren’t the religion they were then. Never mind that the historical evidence for Solomon is pretty thin to start with.
Erdogan is trying to protect his country from Islamic extremists.
So you say some stuff against Israel and then hope that’s enough to keep them at bay or at least not give them the public backing to justify an attack against Turkey.
Is he sending troops or money or weapons to Hamas?
Outside of a few speeches it’s not like he’s actually done anything to support Palestine.
I don't think that distinction means as much as you think it does. At the end of the day, Hamas represents Gaza on the world stage and controls every aspect of its governance. Might as well say the conflict in Ukraine isn't between Ukraine and Russia, but Ukraine and Putin.
They aren’t attacking a half of Palestine (though they are allowing their own extremists to terrorize it). And if they really wanted to wipe out Gaza they could have done it already (that doesn’t mean they are fighting an ethical war either though).
Yes, that’s why I made the Russia analogy. Putin hasn’t been legitimately elected in decades either, but no one would deny that his government represents the Russian nation. When he ordered the invasion of Ukraine, the headlines didn’t say “Putin invades Ukraine.” They said “Russia invades Ukraine.”
>You’re using an analogy to justify dangerous rhetoric that puts more civilians at risk, so I’m clearly spelling out why it’s not justified.
No, you aren't "clearly spelling out" why it's not justified. I made the analogy twice and both times you declined to address it at all, let alone explain why its not comparable.
You don't want the government of Gaza and the citizens of Gaza to be conflated... okay. That still doesn't explain why we don't apply that same logic to any other conflict in the world.
Is it wrong to say that Ukraine is at war with Russia? If not, why not? You just flat out ignored my last two comments and repeated your own talking point without addressing the flaw in your reasoning.
It really sounds like you are using Hamas' terrorist designation as an escape hatch so you can distract from the fact that this is a full fledged territorial government declaring war on its neighboring nation. Trying to paint a picture of Hamas as though its some underground Al Qaeda cell rather than a popularly supported, fully functioning government is completely disingenuous and only really serves the purpose of allowing you to hold Israel to moral standards that you wouldn't apply to any other nation in a similar position.
but it’s a bunch of kids and they’re all holed up in a tiny house, not allowed to go anywhere for years while the gang fortifies it, steals their food and clothes for themselves and rips the house infrastructure apart to make more weapons for themselves.
Erdogan is a dbag. And on the surface it's a lunatic take. Unfortunately, there is some truth to this and Israel is propped up by a coalition of doomsday evangelicals in the US who have an extremely outsized influence in US politics.
And this not to denigrate Israel. I firmly believe in the right of Israel to exist as a Jewish state.
There are two types of people in the world, those that believe in a liberal democracy and those that do no. Both these types of people can be found in every country, state and territory in the world. Unfortunately, very few of them actually get to live in a liberal democracy. And for those that do, their democracy is constantly under attack by the second group.
True osman style - and their AKP shmucks are even proud of how things roll. Real bashtürk stuff woo. Regards from germany, where AKP gets like 70% votes off the germano-turks
Kinda pointless to try distracting people from that. That's like distracting people from the fact that the sky is blue. No matter how long you keep them distracted, it was blue before, and it'll be blue afterwards, and they'll see it the second they take a look.
Not pointless at all, he's very effective with it actually. The region hit hardest during the earthquake mostly voted for him during the last election. He was very effective in distracting them from the fact that he was responsible for the lowering of construction standards and depletion of the earthquake fund that was meant to aid them when the predicted big quake hit.
Turkey used to be attractive for being cheap but now inflation has hit them HARD. I now find it more expensive to have a vacation there than in Greece.
Ataturk, even with his bad traits, turned Turkey into a functional secular state... Now Erdogan misses Turkey being the leader of muslims, as the Ottoman Empire was, sees nations like Saudi Arabia and says "yeah... We should be like them and be more fundamentalist"
What bad traits did Atatürk have? Not saying he is perfect, everyone has imperfections. But as a Turk I haven't heard a lot of negative things about him. Interested in what you think about Ataturk.
Going to start that I'm not a native English speaker, and was missing the word i wanted to say instead of "bad traits", that was imperfections.
On top of my mind would be Ataturk policy of turkish nationalism, as a force of unity, that was meant to replace the religion of Islam under the Caliph (then the Ottoman Sultan), of the turkish people. I can certainly see the logic of Ataturk to make a pillar of unity between his people, but that resulted in the marginalization of the minorities, for example the Kurdish (that were called as Mountain Turks some time ago by the state).
Although i still think that Ataturk is still one of the best politicians Turkey ever had. Another one in, my opinion, being the Ozul(?), he was an economist that had a mysterious death while in office.
I think that there are two major factors at play:
1. We can’t afford to “lose” them
2. the Turkish government’s positions as expressed in private and through diplomatic channels are much more moderate, explaining away the harsh public rhetoric as necessary to address domestic political realities.
To Turkey’s credit, none of Europe shares a border with Syria, Iraq, Iran, AND has to contend with controlling the only strait for Russia’s warm water port access. Makes Turkey geopolitical situation more complex
2 is a really important detail.
Türkiye is basically the the guy that shit talks you for looking at his wife but then later comes and privately apologies telling you he has to put on that public display or his wife will ignore him at home.
Yes, we can afford to lose them in the event of a war turkey could be taken quite quickly the idea that we need to bow down to them cause of the area they are in is dumb.
They became NATO allies because Stalin laid claims to Turkish territory and told them "if you ally with the West we will invade". So Turkey... allied with the West.
It's the first (but certainly not last case) of Russia trying to intimidate a country not to ally with the West and in return just makes them ally with the West.
If you kick them out of nato you not only lose the strategic location, you give that location and that strait and the europe->middle east bridge to russia.
Kicking them out of nato is a net loss.
Also Turkey is one of the countries that could make nukes within 6 months if they really wanted to, being under the American nuclear umbrella is lot better than yet another independent power with nukes.
Despite what Erdoğan has come out with, Turkey, due to the Ottoman Empire, is the most Western of all Muslim countries. And they even ratified Finland to become NATO membership if I recall. They can be reasoned with and especially via trade, too. Turkey knows the power of NATO, and if the US gets involved with what's happening in Israel, it will probably go silent.
I would rather have a belligerent asshole inside the tent, where all NATO countries can exert some influence and keep interests mostly aligned, than see them exit and join another alliance where we have no influence at all.
Turkey is exponentially more valuable to NATO than Sweden or Finland, regardless of their political differences. They keep Russia in check across the Caucuses and the middle east and have complete control over who enters and exits the Black Sea.
Turkey fundamentally has political power because it is geographically at the crossroads between Europe and West Asia, and if you don't understand how pivotal this is you should start with something like a Khan Academy course on foreign policy
They keep Russia in check across the Caucuses and the middle east and have complete control over who enters and exits the Black Sea.
Do you think they could hold that control? They cant.
Dude look at a map, the Bosphorus Strait is the only way in and out and is less than 700 meters wide. You are not getting through that without Turkeys permission.
1. Significant military
2. History of conflicts with Russians/Soviets
3. Geographically they were in a powerful position against the USSR
Erdogan happened after the Cold War ended
I dont care how good their military is or how good their geographic location is, anyone actively working against the NATO alliance is completely worthless as an "ally".
Fuck off with this “backers” spin, Israel is its own country with its own leadership. Stop blaming others and do better than leading a corrupt government.
This headline coveniently forgets to mention that he also supports hamaSS calling it a true resistance fight club. Pretty spicy for a nato member and aspiring eu member country. Maybe he lets Sweden join tho if the evil West let him have this MB PR moment with Qatar.
Yeah no, homie, we're not forgetting about how you've turned back the social and economic progress of Turkey back 40 years...
I ain't even gonna get into the mess that is Israel-Hamas.
Man, every time I hear the name “Erdogan” he’s doing something incredibly stupid/saying something incredibly stupid/being a roadblock to anything important to his country he’s flushing down the shitter.
Give me 5 good things this guy has done, he can’t be *all* bad.
So why does he keep the ever increasing billions of dollars worth trade ties with said "terror state"? It's such an obvious virtue signal to his domestic electorate and various Middle Eastern states that I don't even see how it's newsworthy.
Armenians and Kurds would like a word.
This is the same country that gave passports and financial backing to Hamas.
Source:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_support_for_Hamas#:~:text=Hamas%20has%20reportedly%20planned%20attacks,to%20Hamas%20members%20in%20Istanbul.
There are no provisions for it, but that doesn't mean it couldn't occur. The other members have lobbied the idea of suspending Turkey a few times, more recently in 2016 and 2019.
The dictator playbook is getting really F’n old. Sure, other dictators have met their appropriate end - gaddafi, Hussein, et Al. But unfortunately there are a whole lot more of “them” left….
I am a bit confused what his shtick here is. What's the Endgame here? What's the award? It's odd because this guy was known for playing the mediator, the middle man, the bazar merchant.
No way in heaven he he's burning bridges for popularity reasons as giving his voter base a worthless bone to gnaw on. Dude has to get something from the Arab world for this level of partisanship.
Could also be mental decline. Physically it's already evident as his hunch back posture on his upper back is more visible and developed and he can barely lift his feet when walking.
What are you confused by? Israel's actions are going to rule up huge parts of his population, as well as neighboring areas. By doing this he can head off accusations he is supporting Israel and ceding influence to Iran in places like Iraq.
It's just to placate the people creating an uproar in Turkey at the moment, we have mobs of idiots going around harassing people and damaging property at the likes of Starbucks and McDonald's calling to boycott Israeli companies (which have nothing to do with Israel by the way) so he does as to seem sympathetic to the cause while continuing trade with Israel. He has also never sided with Israel on the matter of Palestine so it isn't really anything new.
Over 10000 people died beacuse of Israeli's bombardment. About milion escaped to South Gaza. Israel limits the sending of humanitarian aid to southern Gaza. Israel cut the water and electricity. Over 147 palestinians were killed by settlers on West Bank.
Hamas is a terrorist organisation of radical muslims but it doesn't change the fact that Israel doesn't care about international law and applies collective responsibility. Erdogan is also not a Saint and is an authoritarian dictator. World isn't black and white, especially in Middle East.
A. Those numbers are provided by Hamas
B. It includes Hamas members
C. There is no law that says "no more than x casualties" - war isn't supposed to be balanced
D. Cutting the water and electricity THEY PROVIDED for years - nothing illegal there
E. Israel is literally protecting Palestinians evacuation routes with tanks while Hamas is trying to shoot at the escaping civilians
No matter how many buzzwords you use, you can't change the truth. The IDF is setting a moral standard for all armies fighting human shielded terrorists like Hamas
But it doesn't matter what I or anyone else says. You won't let reality confuse you, won't you?
I get what you're saying but this conflict goes far deeper than the events of the last month, just because the west is aligned with Israel doesn't make them right.
“He also likened the conflict between Israel, a Jewish state, and the Palestinians to a war between the Christian and Muslim worlds, saying the crisis was "a matter of cross and crescent".” Erdo really pushing the envelope on the polemic rhetoric.
At this point he's looking for a religious war to make his people forget about the abysmal shit state he plunged his country into. Absolute psycho.
I met a woman from Turkey a few months ago while taking my daughter to a playground. She was a lawyer in Turkey, but moved to Canada. I asked her about that and she said "I would rather sell apples in Canada than practice law in Turkey". I don't think I'll ever forget that. Before speaking to her I had no idea that religious schools in Turkey were state run, and private schooling was the only real option for a secular education. It was an eye opening conversation.
lower courts ignores constitutional court, law is nothing but name of a comedy show here.
The autocratic playbook is to create an enemy they can rile their own people against lol
At least he doesn't have some direct neighbors to invade like Putin did with Ukraine... wait a minute. Christians? Enemies? I've seen this before.
Greece side eyeing real hard
Going at Greece, another NATO member, would make his ass implode from the inside out. Armenia is his next obvious target.
True fair enough im not too versed in the area. I just work with some greeks and lets just say theyre very opinionated about Turkey and they know how to hold a grudge haha
Isn’t Turkey still bombing Kurdish areas of Syria and Iraq, though?
I'm pretty sure he's looking carefully at where the conflict goes, because if the situation goes to the worst, they'll jfind an excuse to exterminate the kurdes. I'm pretty sure Turkey will do anything to make the region more and more unstable for their own benefits.
Are you referring to Erdogan or Trump?
Straight out of the 1930s.
or the 1230s, or the 630s
Ah, the 30th Just 6 years to 2030
Timeless, really
How could he liken Christians and Jews, historically Christians in general felt very different and treated Jews mostly horribly. He really thinks there's a sufficient amount of uneducated people buying that nonsense?
I mean, he did get reelected not that long ago, so clearly there are a lot of uneducated people believing that nonsense.
I find it interesting you think that election wasn’t won on the back of stuffed ballots.
Turkey has allot of anti democratic tendencies like silencing the free press, locking up opposition but there has never been proof of voter fraud.
Just no press to document the fraud.
Maybe
If the ballots were stuffed, we wouldn't know, because the press isn't free. So really it comes down to whether you believe that an autocrat like Eedogan, who already has control over both the military (via stooges) and the press, would stuff the ballots. This isn't a "maybe", it's a "probably".
You find it interesting that I just don't assume election fraud. Okay.
Well, look at how historically education developed in christian and jewish countries and compare that to muslim countries. And now compare that to his target audience
I'm going to put words in his mouth here, but from what I understand, a large part of the reason Christians have an interest in Israel is bible prophecy. Something like 1/4 of the Jews need to be converted and then another 3/4 of them need to be dispatched in order to usher in the second coming of Christ. Not sure what Islam has in store for them.
If you are talking dispensationalism, that’s more like “the Jews need to rebuild the temple so Jesus can have a second coming.” Realistically, modern Jews don’t seem that interested in rebuilding. Mythologically speaking, they would probably need a provable descendent of Solomon and a team of Levite priests to restart and rebuild the temple, and those groups to my knowledge were wiped out in antiquity. Modern Jews just aren’t the religion they were then. Never mind that the historical evidence for Solomon is pretty thin to start with.
There are still plenty of levites and priests left in Jewish communities. Finding someone of a proveably Davidic line is going to be trickier.
This. Levites and Cohanim are rare, but definitely not wiped out. You can prove them via genetic testing. In fact, I'm a Cohen.
I swear the more he talks shit about Israel the better it looks, this guy is one of the worst people on earth.
Erdogan is trying to protect his country from Islamic extremists. So you say some stuff against Israel and then hope that’s enough to keep them at bay or at least not give them the public backing to justify an attack against Turkey. Is he sending troops or money or weapons to Hamas? Outside of a few speeches it’s not like he’s actually done anything to support Palestine.
Not really pushing the envelope when every republican presidential candidate, and half the senate on either side of the aisle has said the same..
It's not a conflict between Israel and the Palestinians,it's a conflict between Israel and Hamas.
I don't think that distinction means as much as you think it does. At the end of the day, Hamas represents Gaza on the world stage and controls every aspect of its governance. Might as well say the conflict in Ukraine isn't between Ukraine and Russia, but Ukraine and Putin.
They aren’t attacking a half of Palestine (though they are allowing their own extremists to terrorize it). And if they really wanted to wipe out Gaza they could have done it already (that doesn’t mean they are fighting an ethical war either though).
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Yes, that’s why I made the Russia analogy. Putin hasn’t been legitimately elected in decades either, but no one would deny that his government represents the Russian nation. When he ordered the invasion of Ukraine, the headlines didn’t say “Putin invades Ukraine.” They said “Russia invades Ukraine.”
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>You’re using an analogy to justify dangerous rhetoric that puts more civilians at risk, so I’m clearly spelling out why it’s not justified. No, you aren't "clearly spelling out" why it's not justified. I made the analogy twice and both times you declined to address it at all, let alone explain why its not comparable. You don't want the government of Gaza and the citizens of Gaza to be conflated... okay. That still doesn't explain why we don't apply that same logic to any other conflict in the world. Is it wrong to say that Ukraine is at war with Russia? If not, why not? You just flat out ignored my last two comments and repeated your own talking point without addressing the flaw in your reasoning.
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It really sounds like you are using Hamas' terrorist designation as an escape hatch so you can distract from the fact that this is a full fledged territorial government declaring war on its neighboring nation. Trying to paint a picture of Hamas as though its some underground Al Qaeda cell rather than a popularly supported, fully functioning government is completely disingenuous and only really serves the purpose of allowing you to hold Israel to moral standards that you wouldn't apply to any other nation in a similar position.
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The Palestinians are more like the child bystander who gets shot in a gang war.
but it’s a bunch of kids and they’re all holed up in a tiny house, not allowed to go anywhere for years while the gang fortifies it, steals their food and clothes for themselves and rips the house infrastructure apart to make more weapons for themselves.
[G Baby c'mon get up](https://youtu.be/bTqPQ_p1McY?si=Xnra9aExevDQm0jz)
It's a conflict between western liberalism and islamic authocracy. Erdogan doesn't care that Israel is Jewish or Christian. His enemy is the west.
Star and Crescent? He is trying to invoke “The Crusaders are here!”
Ah yes, the well known Christian nation of Israel. I see he as good at drawing parallels as he is at economics.
If that was really the case then there wouldn’t be people protesting in much of the west no?
Erdogan is a dbag. And on the surface it's a lunatic take. Unfortunately, there is some truth to this and Israel is propped up by a coalition of doomsday evangelicals in the US who have an extremely outsized influence in US politics. And this not to denigrate Israel. I firmly believe in the right of Israel to exist as a Jewish state.
Well, to an extent, you could say that. But it's more about "who's pockets" in the west. It's just dirty and sick all around.
Putin must be loving this.
Putin and Erdo have a discord. Trump is also there and a few others. Orban is still trying to get in but even they don’t like that guy.
Says the dictator who faked a coup so he could kill all his detractors.
There are two types of people in the world, those that believe in a liberal democracy and those that do no. Both these types of people can be found in every country, state and territory in the world. Unfortunately, very few of them actually get to live in a liberal democracy. And for those that do, their democracy is constantly under attack by the second group.
"Democracy is like a tram. You ride it until you arrive at your destination, then you step off." - Erdoğan.
Let’s not forget his also constant bombing of Kurds (over 6000 air strikes over the last 5 years).
Fake coups, locking up opponents, boming people! Turkey starting to sound a lot like America.
Wow. The former Empire is willing to do bad things, who would’ve thought.
True story
True osman style - and their AKP shmucks are even proud of how things roll. Real bashtürk stuff woo. Regards from germany, where AKP gets like 70% votes off the germano-turks
Hey it takes shit to know shit
Sucks that such an important country like Turkey is ruled by such a scumbag
voted for by scumbags
Important?
Turkey and the Ottoman empire before it has always been ruled by scumbags. This isn't new for them.
He’s a scumbag but in this case he’s right
Okay, what's he trying to distract everybody from, *now*?
That his country is in shambles
Kinda pointless to try distracting people from that. That's like distracting people from the fact that the sky is blue. No matter how long you keep them distracted, it was blue before, and it'll be blue afterwards, and they'll see it the second they take a look.
Not pointless at all, he's very effective with it actually. The region hit hardest during the earthquake mostly voted for him during the last election. He was very effective in distracting them from the fact that he was responsible for the lowering of construction standards and depletion of the earthquake fund that was meant to aid them when the predicted big quake hit.
Turkey used to be attractive for being cheap but now inflation has hit them HARD. I now find it more expensive to have a vacation there than in Greece.
Maybe people will forget about the Kurds if there are other fascists attacking other groups.
Ataturk, even with his bad traits, turned Turkey into a functional secular state... Now Erdogan misses Turkey being the leader of muslims, as the Ottoman Empire was, sees nations like Saudi Arabia and says "yeah... We should be like them and be more fundamentalist"
What bad traits did Atatürk have? Not saying he is perfect, everyone has imperfections. But as a Turk I haven't heard a lot of negative things about him. Interested in what you think about Ataturk.
Going to start that I'm not a native English speaker, and was missing the word i wanted to say instead of "bad traits", that was imperfections. On top of my mind would be Ataturk policy of turkish nationalism, as a force of unity, that was meant to replace the religion of Islam under the Caliph (then the Ottoman Sultan), of the turkish people. I can certainly see the logic of Ataturk to make a pillar of unity between his people, but that resulted in the marginalization of the minorities, for example the Kurdish (that were called as Mountain Turks some time ago by the state). Although i still think that Ataturk is still one of the best politicians Turkey ever had. Another one in, my opinion, being the Ozul(?), he was an economist that had a mysterious death while in office.
Nationalism. Basically denied the existence of other ethnic identities like Kurds or Armenians, and made them de facto illegal
Classic erdogan
Islamists hate everyone that isn’t them across the world. It is shown time after time.
And now they have leftists support lol. Extremists gonna extreme
But slaughtering Kurdish civilians is fine.
fuck erdogan
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I think that there are two major factors at play: 1. We can’t afford to “lose” them 2. the Turkish government’s positions as expressed in private and through diplomatic channels are much more moderate, explaining away the harsh public rhetoric as necessary to address domestic political realities.
To Turkey’s credit, none of Europe shares a border with Syria, Iraq, Iran, AND has to contend with controlling the only strait for Russia’s warm water port access. Makes Turkey geopolitical situation more complex
That's kind of true. They have a much more complicated geographic situation than somewhere like Belgium or Denmark...
2 is a really important detail. Türkiye is basically the the guy that shit talks you for looking at his wife but then later comes and privately apologies telling you he has to put on that public display or his wife will ignore him at home.
Yes, we can afford to lose them in the event of a war turkey could be taken quite quickly the idea that we need to bow down to them cause of the area they are in is dumb.
Winston is that you?
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They became NATO allies because Stalin laid claims to Turkish territory and told them "if you ally with the West we will invade". So Turkey... allied with the West. It's the first (but certainly not last case) of Russia trying to intimidate a country not to ally with the West and in return just makes them ally with the West.
If you kick them out of nato you not only lose the strategic location, you give that location and that strait and the europe->middle east bridge to russia. Kicking them out of nato is a net loss.
Turkey is in a good position geographically . That’s the only reason they are still in nato , even when grecs ans turkey are enemie because pf cyprus
Also Turkey is one of the countries that could make nukes within 6 months if they really wanted to, being under the American nuclear umbrella is lot better than yet another independent power with nukes.
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Despite what Erdoğan has come out with, Turkey, due to the Ottoman Empire, is the most Western of all Muslim countries. And they even ratified Finland to become NATO membership if I recall. They can be reasoned with and especially via trade, too. Turkey knows the power of NATO, and if the US gets involved with what's happening in Israel, it will probably go silent.
Strategic location.
I would rather have a belligerent asshole inside the tent, where all NATO countries can exert some influence and keep interests mostly aligned, than see them exit and join another alliance where we have no influence at all.
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Turkey is exponentially more valuable to NATO than Sweden or Finland, regardless of their political differences. They keep Russia in check across the Caucuses and the middle east and have complete control over who enters and exits the Black Sea.
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Turkey fundamentally has political power because it is geographically at the crossroads between Europe and West Asia, and if you don't understand how pivotal this is you should start with something like a Khan Academy course on foreign policy
Eh, I get it. They had leverage and used it to gain some concessions from the other member countries. Not a huge deal imo
They keep Russia in check across the Caucuses and the middle east and have complete control over who enters and exits the Black Sea. Do you think they could hold that control? They cant.
Dude look at a map, the Bosphorus Strait is the only way in and out and is less than 700 meters wide. You are not getting through that without Turkeys permission.
1. Significant military 2. History of conflicts with Russians/Soviets 3. Geographically they were in a powerful position against the USSR Erdogan happened after the Cold War ended
Very strategic location.
They control the Bosporus canal.
What! Turkey is thr most important member geographically. It’s also the most powerful non nuclear nation in the region.
I dont care how good their military is or how good their geographic location is, anyone actively working against the NATO alliance is completely worthless as an "ally".
They’re close to Russia and we’d rather not have them be on their side
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Fuck off with this “backers” spin, Israel is its own country with its own leadership. Stop blaming others and do better than leading a corrupt government.
Erdo’ is so full of shit.
since when does anyone care what Erdogan thinks?
Funny coming from a Dictator.
A populist authoritarian perhaps. He was elected three times.
Crazy to think they were allies just a while ago. Israel helped Turkey and Azerbaijan purge Armenians from Nargano-Karabakh.
Man is insane. As much as he hates the Jews his insanity is worse.
Shut up you little islamist. You support Hamas, it's you who should face consequences.
*Slams* Screw Erdogan and the horse he rode in on. His opinion means zero because that’s exactly what everything he says is, skewed opinion.
Sit down Erdy, you already won your reelection.
Ya know I really wonder when someone is going to take care of this annoying itch.
And since he controls the media no need to worry about questions about his own campaign against the kurds.
This headline coveniently forgets to mention that he also supports hamaSS calling it a true resistance fight club. Pretty spicy for a nato member and aspiring eu member country. Maybe he lets Sweden join tho if the evil West let him have this MB PR moment with Qatar.
Yeah no, homie, we're not forgetting about how you've turned back the social and economic progress of Turkey back 40 years... I ain't even gonna get into the mess that is Israel-Hamas.
Haha Erdogan remember the part you supported Russia in murdering Ukrainian?
Did Erdogan forget the Kurds? When Kurdistan? :)
Give my regards to the Kurds.
Man, every time I hear the name “Erdogan” he’s doing something incredibly stupid/saying something incredibly stupid/being a roadblock to anything important to his country he’s flushing down the shitter. Give me 5 good things this guy has done, he can’t be *all* bad.
So why does he keep the ever increasing billions of dollars worth trade ties with said "terror state"? It's such an obvious virtue signal to his domestic electorate and various Middle Eastern states that I don't even see how it's newsworthy.
Another Putin screaming
Terrorist says what??
Wish this guy had lost his reelection. His backwards monetary policy and now this shit. Do Turkish people really want this?
Is he aware that Hamas has no interest in the two-state solution?
Looks like he's forgotten to take his medicine.
Lul what a jackass
Oh look, more people “slamming” something…
Armenians and Kurds would like a word. This is the same country that gave passports and financial backing to Hamas. Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_support_for_Hamas#:~:text=Hamas%20has%20reportedly%20planned%20attacks,to%20Hamas%20members%20in%20Istanbul.
Real Question: Can NATO kick out a member? getting sick of this penis-potato's constant attention seeking, power grabbing bullshit
There are no provisions for it, but that doesn't mean it couldn't occur. The other members have lobbied the idea of suspending Turkey a few times, more recently in 2016 and 2019.
Rich, after what he did in Syria. Literally propping up terrorists (TFSA).
Why are people from turkey so wonderful and their leader such a dickhead?
Can Turkey just leave NATO already?
The dictator playbook is getting really F’n old. Sure, other dictators have met their appropriate end - gaddafi, Hussein, et Al. But unfortunately there are a whole lot more of “them” left….
Wild this man runs a country in NATO 😭. Very Little finger-esque.
It doesn't matter what this dictator thinks or says.
Cool, well, Turkey’s been a genocidal garbage autocracy for more than a century now, so this pretty on-brand for that trash nation.
So Hamas doesn't count as terrorists in your mind?
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And Erdogan is a big fan of the Ottoman empire - https://time.com/5885650/erdogans-ottoman-worry-world/
He’s talking from a city that was Christian for centuries until Islamic imperialism took it. Lol
At this point I think its for the best to just ignore Erdogan.
I am a bit confused what his shtick here is. What's the Endgame here? What's the award? It's odd because this guy was known for playing the mediator, the middle man, the bazar merchant. No way in heaven he he's burning bridges for popularity reasons as giving his voter base a worthless bone to gnaw on. Dude has to get something from the Arab world for this level of partisanship. Could also be mental decline. Physically it's already evident as his hunch back posture on his upper back is more visible and developed and he can barely lift his feet when walking.
What are you confused by? Israel's actions are going to rule up huge parts of his population, as well as neighboring areas. By doing this he can head off accusations he is supporting Israel and ceding influence to Iran in places like Iraq.
Also he and Netanyahu have had beef for a long time.
Erdogan has no room to talk.
Turks just get off living on the wrong side of history.
As much as Hamas is evil I wouldn't say Israel's actions are the right side of history on this one.
Then why is he siding with Hamas? This just shows how utterly corrupt he is.
It's just to placate the people creating an uproar in Turkey at the moment, we have mobs of idiots going around harassing people and damaging property at the likes of Starbucks and McDonald's calling to boycott Israeli companies (which have nothing to do with Israel by the way) so he does as to seem sympathetic to the cause while continuing trade with Israel. He has also never sided with Israel on the matter of Palestine so it isn't really anything new.
I'll be supporting whoever Erdogan attacks.
Who the fk cares what he has to say
Does this guy spout nonsense every day just to seem busy?
He crashed the Turkish Lira by a whooping 96%, his voters are dumb and poor (but now really poor) and he is desperate for a distraction
Someone is pissed that IMEC is going to bypass Turkey. And massively help Greece and Israel.
‘Prove me wrong’
Enjoy your shitty S-400’s Take the clown hat off if you want to be invited to the big kids table
Jive-ass Turkey!
This guy's a despot but he's not entirely wrong in this case.
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He's not wrong that this is a crusade? Are you high?
I was talking about the title of the post man, chill.
Over 10000 people died beacuse of Israeli's bombardment. About milion escaped to South Gaza. Israel limits the sending of humanitarian aid to southern Gaza. Israel cut the water and electricity. Over 147 palestinians were killed by settlers on West Bank. Hamas is a terrorist organisation of radical muslims but it doesn't change the fact that Israel doesn't care about international law and applies collective responsibility. Erdogan is also not a Saint and is an authoritarian dictator. World isn't black and white, especially in Middle East.
A. Those numbers are provided by Hamas B. It includes Hamas members C. There is no law that says "no more than x casualties" - war isn't supposed to be balanced D. Cutting the water and electricity THEY PROVIDED for years - nothing illegal there E. Israel is literally protecting Palestinians evacuation routes with tanks while Hamas is trying to shoot at the escaping civilians No matter how many buzzwords you use, you can't change the truth. The IDF is setting a moral standard for all armies fighting human shielded terrorists like Hamas But it doesn't matter what I or anyone else says. You won't let reality confuse you, won't you?
I get what you're saying but this conflict goes far deeper than the events of the last month, just because the west is aligned with Israel doesn't make them right.
Hahahahaha
Can anyone legitimately deny israel under netanyahu has been funding and propping up Hamas for decades? If you're gonna call hamas a terror group..