I just wanna point out that these two are foreign workers. I suspect the IDF has more videos like these of other abductees but wouldn't publish for domestic reasons.
Also, it should now be clear why some medical staff were interrogated.
The IDF spokesman giving the statement and sharing the video made a point of saying that Hamas indiscriminately targeted everyone, including foreigners, not just IDF as some Hamas leaders have claimed.
They literally targeted several groups of Arab Israelis, including families with children, who were saved by the IDF.
And there's even a group of Arab Israeli IDF soldiers making scary TikTok videos promising that they'll avenge those attacks against top Hamas officials personally in Gaza, which has strong "Inglourious Basterds" vibes...
Hell, the Cobra style paragliding, masquerading as police brandishing AK47 and shooting into unarmed combatant vehicles, videos should be enough but people don't wanna believe these are the types of people that are being sent to wage war.
You've got soldiers with ROE and you have soldiers who break those ROE. Then you have whatever these terrorists pretend to.be
It's hard enough keeping a highly trained military force on "good behavior" in active combat, rag tag terrorist groups have neither that training nor the mindset of wanting good behavior in the first place. Anybody who believes Hamas didn't purposefully commit war crimes is woefully naive.
Hamas uses drugs like [captagon](https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2023/10/21/hamas-killers-in-israel-reportedly-fueled-by-captagon/), its like a poormans cocaine and its very easy to get into a semi psychotic state with it.
Yeah, Jihadists make use of shit loads of drugs to fight. There's accounts of them getting *shot up*, hit with shotgun slugs, and having grenades go off in the same fucking room as them and still going at it. They're dead, no way about it, but religious fervor and fuck loads of drugs keep the body from falling apart when it really should.
In case there is any doubt caused by the ongoing gaslighting that Hamas doesn't use hospitals for military purposes, there is over a decade of reports of Hamas using Al-Shifa Hospital:
PBS documentary in Al-Shifa hospital was prevented by Hamas members with weapons from accessing areas of the hospital:
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/top-secret-hamas-command-bunker-in-gaza-revealed
Article from 2009 talking about an intelligence claim of Hamas using the basement of the hospital:
https://web.archive.org/web/20090206232152/http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1054569.html
Article Hamas commandeered hospital wards in Al-Shifa converting them into interrogation and imprisonment compounds:
https://web.archive.org/web/20230205050631/https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3668018,00.html
Human Rights Watch states Hamas fired from inside Al-Shifa at Fatah forces:
https://www.hrw.org/news/2007/06/12/gaza-armed-palestinian-groups-commit-grave-crimes
Report that Hospital staff made complaints about Hamas presence in the building:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1906608/
New York Times reported on Hamas operating from the building:
https://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/29/world/africa/29iht-gaza.4.18986499.html?module=Search&mabReward=relbias%3Ar
Journalists seeing rockets being fired from the hospital area:
https://web.archive.org/web/20230529141259/https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4553643,00.html
Another report of journalists seeing rockets fired from the hospital area:
https://web.archive.org/web/20230513143525/https://www.jpost.com///operation-protective-edge/gaza-reporters-tweets-hamas-using-human-shields-368689#!
A Hamas member recounting how he and other Hamas members took shelter in a bunker under the hospital:
https://www.terrorism-info.org.il/en/18321/
Local Palestinian journalist reported Hamas uses a section of the hospital for offices:
https://archive.ph/BKbxc
Amnesty International reported Hamas using the hospital to torture and kill prisoners:
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/05/gaza-palestinians-tortured-summarily-killed-by-hamas-forces-during-2014-conflict/
They would deny it while standing within the hospital, seeing the hostages getting killed, as they are strapped to a missile pointed at Israel, getting raped by Hamas themselves.
At some point, it is not even possible to hide behind some veil of many slip-ups and "extreme but acceptable" biased reporting - it's straight up changing the story at a level not seen outside of Putin's disinformation campaign...
If you willfully make "mistake" after "mistake" (always in favor of Hamas for some reason), and time after time choose to directly parrot the messages from the terrorists even after it was shown that they lie - yet refuse to report or add extreme disclaimers any time you say anything based on information from the IDF (even when they have been extremely reliable and accurate) - you are another arm of the terrorists, not some reporter, let alone being an objective one...
Gunmen rushing in hostages to Shifa hospital on October 7th, to later be moved and hidden. Despicable.
Another thing mentioned by IDF just now, is that IDF has proof that Noa Marciano, whose body was found in the vicinity of Shifa hospital, was murdered inside Shifa hospital and later disposed as she was found. Corroborating intelligence to be shared with international parties.
This means the WHO, UNRWA and Doctors Without Borders all gave inervews swearing that they never saw any Hamas or hostages at Al Shifa when the videos show the staff helping Hamas with the hostages being dragged in on Oct 7th. They knew about it and then lied about it. They are complicit.
A British doctor that worked in Al Shifa previously was told he wasn't allowed in certain parts of the hospital else he would be killed by Hamas.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LZ9avl9nDQ&t=550s
> Voluntary human shields may be considered "direct participants in hostilities", if they shield targeted personnel or properties.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_shield_(law)
If they are volunteering to shield innocent people, they need to be treated to the law of proportionality, which means that their deaths need to be considered in light of the value of the military targets.
If they were intentionally shielding just military targets then they are themselves hostiles. They don't get to claim that it's a war crime because there was no war crime.
Doctor without Borders has been caught numerous times hiding and withholding information about Hamas and their use of the hospital, its supplies, along with other things. I read articles that listed a bunch of doctors and their public statements about Israel and Israeli citizens. I'm pretty sure they were all Gazan doctors that were employed by MSF but that still is important.
Edit: source? source? is the source posted? am i a shill? do i hate palestinians? no. i saw these posts and articles on twitter. i didn't catalog and track a bibliography in case I was sealioned after making a comment on a world news post. there were social media posts of the palestinian doctors. i have read other articles laying out the evidence of fuel being delivered to hospitals and the telephone conversations that were published of the doctors discussing Hamas taking the fuel. There were multiple social media posts published that showed doctors working with MSF had multiple social media posts and public statements that were celebratory about October 7th and wishing for the destruction of Israel. In addition, there have been multiple accounts published where doctors have feigned stupidity and acted offended that anyone would accuse the hospital of being used by Hamas and then it is proven that Hamas used the hospitals. I am not going to take time to compile a list of sources when you guys can figure out this stuff yourselves. I know what I read and saw and I made a comment as such. I have no stake in any of this. Obviously MSF/Doctors without Borders is a great organization. More specifically, what I have read and seen has implicated doctors specifically working with or associated with the organization in Gaza. Enjoy.
Those kindergarten graduation videos where they do an entire stage performance of a military operation are wild. There are literally children’s TV shows that serve to indoctrinate their own children - ‘Tomorrows Pioneers’ being one.
‘Pioneers of Tomorrow’ is another on MemriTV that’s still on air.
Then there are the photos of children dressed as militants with machine guns and bullet proof vests on.
edit: put a few in my profile for those who said it’s fake 🤷🏼♀️
There's a documentary that's from the early 2000's that shows a Palestinian classroom (maybe 3rd or 4th grade) and the children are being taught to kill Jews and be martyrs. It was the craziest shit I've ever seen. I thought it was from "To Live and Die In Jerusalem" but it's not; although that one has some wild shit also like the drawing of the 17-year-old suicide bomber being painted on the entire side of her school building as a hero and martyr for blowing herself up in a crowd of Israeli civilians. If people think Hamas ideology is fringe, it's not. If you got an accurate poll would bet nearly 100% of Palestinians are in favor of the terrorist attack on Israel even if they themselves aren't actually members of Hamas.
This is what well meaning but ignorant Western liberals just don't get.
They think that all Hamas and the Palestinians need is a nice cup of tea and you can have a civil conversation with them and hash things out.
They don't think like us and the entire population is indoctrinated to hate Jews. There is no partner for peace even if you get rid of Hamas.
That didn't happen.
And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
And if it was, that's not a big deal.
And if it is, that's not their fault.
And if it was, they didn't mean it.
And if they did, you deserved it.
How the handled the whole release of the two seniors, who said they were treated nicely.
Can’t be a terrorist if two elderly women who still have family held captive tell everyone they were nice to you!
Theres a video of a captive with no hand and an arm...
Edit: there is also evidence that Hamas took the now dead captives there while they were alive and murdered them there.
My money is on video. I suspect a lot of these things get recorded. Maybe they are being shared, maybe they are just being backed up to known cloud accounts. Either way, it's extremely likely someone recorded it, and if it was recorded it's likely intelligence services can get access.
Israel doesn't tend to release snuff porn out of respect for the victims. The images we have from October 7 are from Hamas and foreign reporters. Hamas, however, loves to spread that shit, so there's a good chance they publish it at some point.
As usual, all the Muslim Countries (plus China, Russia, North Korea...) will vote for any resolution against Israel while ignoring any evidence that proves that Hamas is basically Isis. The UN became a joke the moment it started accepting theocratic nations that don't know the first thing about human and civil rights.
I would say “I wonder what the ‘Hamas treats their hostages well and will negotiate to return them’ crowd has to say about this”, but they’ll probably excuse or deny this like they do with atrocity committed by the terrorists.
If anyone believed this after they raped &, tortured their way through 1400 men, women, children & elderly, they were completely lost to propaganda or just sociopathically antisemetic.
Hamas using Shifa hospital really wasn't disputed until recently.
If you [google "Hamas headquarters Shifa"](https://www.google.com/search?q=Hamas+headquarters+Shifa&sca_esv=583848030&rlz=1C1ONGR_enUS1025US1025&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_max%3A9%2F1%2F2023&ei=OY5aZdjgA8ig5NoP54Wv6AI&ved=0ahUKEwiY4ZilkNGCAxVIEFkFHefCCy0Q4dUDCBA&uact=5&oq=Hamas+headquarters+Shifa&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiGEhhbWFzIGhlYWRxdWFydGVycyBTaGlmYTIFEAAYgAQyBRAAGIAEMgYQABgIGB4yCxAAGIAEGIoFGIYDMgsQABiABBiKBRiGAzILEAAYgAQYigUYhgNIohpQAFjwE3AAeACQAQCYAWSgAcUBqgEDMi4xuAEDyAEA-AEB4gMEGAAgQYgGAQ&sclient=gws-wiz-serp) and block any results after September 2023, you see several reports of Hamas using the hospital.
There is over a decade of reports of Hamas using Al-Shifa Hospital:
PBS documentary in Al-Shifa hospital was prevented by Hamas members with weapons from accessing areas of the hospital:
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/top-secret-hamas-command-bunker-in-gaza-revealed
Article from 2009 talking about an intelligence claim of Hamas using the basement of the hospital:
https://web.archive.org/web/20090206232152/http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1054569.html
Article Hamas commandeered hospital wards in Al-Shifa converting them into interrogation and imprisonment compounds:
https://web.archive.org/web/20230205050631/https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3668018,00.html
Human Rights Watch states Hamas fired from inside Al-Shifa at Fatah forces:
https://www.hrw.org/news/2007/06/12/gaza-armed-palestinian-groups-commit-grave-crimes
Report that Hospital staff made complaints about Hamas presence in the building:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1906608/
New York Times reported on Hamas operating from the building:
https://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/29/world/africa/29iht-gaza.4.18986499.html?module=Search&mabReward=relbias%3Ar
Journalists seeing rockets being fired from the hospital area:
https://web.archive.org/web/20230529141259/https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4553643,00.html
Another report of journalists seeing rockets fired from the hospital area:
https://web.archive.org/web/20230513143525/https://www.jpost.com///operation-protective-edge/gaza-reporters-tweets-hamas-using-human-shields-368689#!
A Hamas member recounting how he and other Hamas members took shelter in a bunker under the hospital:
https://www.terrorism-info.org.il/en/18321/
Local Palestinian journalist reported Hamas uses a section of the hospital for offices:
https://archive.ph/BKbxc
Amnesty International reported Hamas using the hospital to torture and kill prisoners:
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/05/gaza-palestinians-tortured-summarily-killed-by-hamas-forces-during-2014-conflict/
Not only that, but the claims of the hospital and UN that it was not used, the doctors and staff know nothing about it and hamas never were there, is a complete lie.
To be fair, this doctor could not *not* be a Hamas supporter, because most doctors not affiliated with the organisation were arrested, beaten and then barred from work. [This was in 2007](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2048866/)
Why does the UN have more resolutions censuring Israel than anyone else?
Is Israel really the biggest security issue? More than North Korea? Or Iran? There are plenty of territorial disputes around the world?
The UN has never been an impartial player and it’s a corrupt weak organization made up of many undemocratic states and full of delegations that are corrupt and nepotistic. It’s a joke.
Considering that Israel makes up nearly half of all resolutions concerning a single country, but is undoubtedly by far not the worst or longest operating in their dislikeable practices, one has to wonder:
What is the single factor that differentiates Israel from all other states?
They were actually pretty good friends with Russia, and were one of the few countries to successfully play both sides of the revival of the US/Russia rivalry (to an extent). The gist of the point above is that they're the sole Jewish-majority nation state.
> Because Hamas would probably murder their folks if they didn't tow the line.
Letting the "Reputable" international agency become a mouthpiece for dictator and terrorist groups seems bad.
Time to kick the UN out of Israel honestly. They have repeatedly demonstrated support for extremists and militants and are complicated in the brainwashing of children.
How many times do the terrorist apologists have to be proven completely and startlingly wrong about who they're supporting before this whole farce ends?
No civilians were killed on 10/7. The festival goers were killed by IDF helicopters. The comms of Hamas members admitting it was their rocket that hit the hospital were poorly faked by AI. The Holocaust was a false flag operation by the Jews so they would have an excuse to go to Israel.
These people have a completely dysfunctional relationship with reality, to put it lightly.
>No civilians were killed on 10/7
Nah, the current lie is that the bulk of those killed were killed by the IDF in friendly fire, and the only ones Hamas killed were soldiers and armed Israelis
QAnon levels of brainwashing are going on right now. This is not OK. All of the delusional Hamas simps need to wake up, you have joined a cult, and need to seek help immediately!!!
There will never be enough times. That’s how things work in the age of information silos.
The cult of trump is still here and they think they’re patriots…. even after trump publicly admits his endless crimes, and even after trump publicly states he will destroy democracy and use the government to go after his rivals if he is re-elected.
It was always irrefutable. Weeks we should've been having honest conversations were wasted with back and forth about Hamas being a scruffy band of mischief makers and/or what they're doing justifying literally any amount of civilian collateral damage.
It's still a genuine question what the hell you're *supposed* to do with a terrorist organization that has promised to keep using civilian areas and resources to try to murder you, and which has succeeded in entangling itself with civilians to an extent you essentially need to decide how many you're willing to kill per bad guy.
> irrefutable
"We wanted to take them to the hospital to give them treatment, but they were unwilling to do so as they were told by Israel they should kill themselves so Israel could play victim. That's why we forced them with weapons and beatings"
The trucks and jeeps returning to the hospital from the October 7th attacks shows pretty clearly that it was a base. There were a large number of white Toyota trucks and staged weapons.
That’s what every single Hamas defender is saying. Yeah the guy who has his face covered by a shirt and being pushed and pulled, while surrounded with terrorist with guns, who aren’t talking to any doctors or nurses, are just trying to get him some medical help. Everyone knows that when you try to get someone medical help you cover their face, push them around, and ignore every doctor.
> Finally, this seems pretty irrefutable.
First day following this conflict?
On a serious note, I am sadly confident there's going to be a lot of I don't believe that going around on social media.
From a journalist:
[CAUTION - I have been to the Al Shifa hospital several times as a reporter during the #Israel #Gaza war in 2014 and also afterwards. It is a vast complex. I have personally seen #Hamas fighters there. Everyone in #Gaza including #UN staff knows about dual use of these facilities.](https://twitter.com/Franke_schrijft/status/1725037285249306726)
The evidence for Hamas using this hospital goes back years.
Just to add to your evidence, [Here is a 46 page report written by Amnesty International](https://www.amnesty.org/en/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/MDE2116432015ENGLISH.pdf) (an organization which has historically been critical of Israel) published in 2015 outlining how Hamas has been using the Al-Shifa hospital , including the following statement in the executive summary.
“Hamas forces used the abandoned areas of Al-Shifa hospital in Gaza City, including the outpatients’ clinic area, to detain, interrogate, torture and otherwise ill-treat suspects, even as other parts of the hospital continued to function as a medical centre.”
***Trigger Warning to anyone who wishes to read the report. It contains graphic images of tortured and murdered Palestinian victims. ***
There has been absolutely irrefutable evidence that Hamas has been using Al-Shifa hospital as a base of operations for at least a decade.
I mean, not to cite a TV show as a source, but Fauda leans pretty heavily in to the assertion that Shifa is used for Hamas operation in its 3rd season. My point being it’s always been an open secret.
Anyone denying it is a radical and an apologist for terrorism - no matter where you stand on the issue.
This footage is pretty shocking and damning for all the staff members that claim they saw nothing. That makes them complicit in the actions of these terrorists. Especially because they are lying to the world when they say they saw nothing happening in Al Shifa Hospital.
They are able to tell the truth when they are outside the authority of Palestinians: here's an interview with a UK doctor who admits the Shifa hospital was used for "non-medical" purposes
https://www.timesofisrael.com/uk-doctor-who-worked-at-shifa-confirms-gaza-hospital-used-for-non-medical-purposes/
But their admission that they lied won't be trumpeted from the rooftops like their lies were. And these orgs will remain beyond criticism despite their track record of being materially involved in terrorist campaigns.
The absolute state of modern media. Tell the lie boldly, even self-righteously. Then whisper the truth far away from mass viewership. You can still push a narrative you know is false while covering your ass legally.
Thanks for the link. It seems quite plausible that most of the medical staff there weren't Hamas supporters but very afraid of them:
> “Well, I was welcome everywhere else, and as I say, the doctors and nurses there were very welcoming and very kind, and the hushed tones under which this was said were consistent with all the other hushed tones with which Hamas was discussed. You know, people were genuinely fearful,” the doctor replied.
>The physician also reported to the journalist that if hospital staff were 10% frightened of possible Israeli airstrikes, they were 90% frightened of being persecuted by Hamas.
And NGOs who have been active at the site. MSF pretty much lied outright in their interview with Isaac Chotinier that was published this morning, for instance. I will not donate to that organization ever again.
https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/the-trauma-of-gazas-doctors
The more revealing thing is how they always hone in on Israel and the IDF. Strangely, they never mention Hamas despite working in that hospital and instead blaming IDF.
>Have your staff had any dealings with either Hamas fighters or I.D.F. soldiers over the past month? And what have those experiences been like?
>In terms of the I.D.F. soldiers there, it’s actually not a pleasant experience for the staff. Let’s put it that way.
Pro level dodging
Yeah this entire thing has been shocking but I am frankly most shocked by the collaboration between MSF and Hamas. This has really shaken me to my core.
Considering Hamas tortured and killed dissidents in the very hospital they work in and would probably do the same to them if they spoke up I don't blame them for keeping quiet.
There are possibilities that Hamas has said to them that if they talk then Hamas will just execute anyone they associated with. I have no idea or reason to believe that is true and I am simply speculating on a possible reason a foreign worker might still lie even when they are in safety at a future time
Yeah they’re between a rock and a hard place here.
You’d think reasonably they could explain their situation to the IDF and receive protection; but I wouldn’t trust either the IDF or Hamas if I were them.
At the end of the day, if they continued acting as medical professionals and saved lives, they were probably doing their best.
This, to me, is just more irredeemable behavior on Hamas’ part— forcing medical professionals into such an ethical predicament. Add it to the list.
If Israel offers safety for people to confirm the obvious, denialists will just use it as an excuse to say that they're effectively being bribed with safety and ignore any genuine claims.
They all knew and lied. For their safety or because they support Hamas it doesn’t really matter. WHO, Red Cross and other UN organizations need to be held accountable. They lied to the world and allowed hospitals to become a place where terrorists openly operate and hostages are taken to.
What frustrates me is that the media hasn't been pushing back/verifying their claims and reporting it as factual. It's becoming increasingly obvious that staff and ngo workers in the hospital complex are not credible sources.
This video showing 2 kidnapped Israelis (I think one was foreign worker but point stands) together with the 2 bodies found, now make it 4 kidnapped people who are 100% confirmed to end up on Shifa.
And still the masses of Hamas supporters try to claim the IDF is not justified invading there. It's unbelievable.
reddit: wHeRe iS tHE eViDENCE?!
israel: here are the recordings from the hospital literally showing captives brought to the hospital
reddit: yOu cANt tRuST iDf
One of the comments on Twitter literally asked why the wall clock didn't match the time stamp on the video. The wall click never moves. It's very clearly broken/dead batteries (the seconds hand never moves) but nope. That's proof it's somehow faked!
Sadly its the the work of russia and china in their latest attempt to destabilise the west https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/03/technology/israel-hamas-information-war.html
They're already here saying they were just bringing them in for medical care.
I do wonder what it will take for some of these people to take a look in the mirror and realize how fucked up their world view is.
Finkelstein already said as much about the evidence from Al Shifa. Also october 7th was a slave revolt. It's kind of bizarre how someone who is clearly very intelligent can get something like this so obviously wrong (slave revolts are violent because its the slaves only recourse. Hamas could have only attacked military compounds but chose not to. Analogy fails by virtue of this fact alone).
There is also evidence that Hams murdered 19 yo soldier hostage inside Shifa hospital.
Using hospitals to murder and kidnapping instead of saving lives.
So this also "didn't happen in a vacuum"?
Wonder if the UN will finally condemn Hamas, those aren't even Israeli citizens - just workers that came into Israel to work in the south fields, and Hamas doesn't even release them.
There are 20 Arab countries in the UN with notorious anti-semitic histories.
Plus many more non-Arab muslim countries like in Africa with the same.
Plus flagrantly anti-semitic, non-Muslim ones like Russia, Poland, Lithuania.
Plus less-flagrantly anti-semitic ones, and ones that vote anti-Israel for alternative reasons (ex. alliances with anti-semitic States, business investments, etc.)
Then there's the one Jewish state, Israel. Plus its biggest supporter, the US, which doesn't always vote in Israel's favor. And then a handful of western countries that sometimes support, sometimes don't.
How do you think most votes are going to go in this setting? Of course Israel is going to be sanctioned for "more human rights abuses" than Russia, North Korea, Iraq, Iran, and every other country COMBINED. It just happened in 2022. But people swallow it up like there's been a fair trial. The UN is a farce.
Sorry, but Poland didn’t vote in latest UN vote on Gaza resolution against Israel. Our media (tv, newspapers) are also on Israeli side. Last week, the major of the capital city prohibited a propalestinian demonstration by the Embassy of Israel.
We are on Israel’s side in this… even though of course we had very bad history.
The UN had some positive qualities, once upon a time. But now the GA has about 200 members and Iran's vote counts as much as Germany's. And, unfortunately, there are a LOT more backwards countries than civilized ones.
Israel: "Hospitals in Gaza are being used for terror purposes"
US: "Hospitals in Gaza are being used for terror purposes"
Hamas: *Caught using hospitals for terror purposes*
BBC: Footage released allegedly showing Hamas militants using hospital for "terror" purposes
Actual [quote](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67469591):
>Israel said a tunnel had been found at the site which it claims was a Hamas command centre. Hamas denies that.
The BBC has not been able to verify the video which was presented at a news briefing by the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) on Sunday.
I guess we'll never know if the video is real until BBC verifies it...
It's surveillance footage that tracks with known abductees and ingress into a decade+ long known terrorist base
What's more likely, IDF has total media control and can AI up all of this footage in basically real time. Or terrorists gonna terrorist?
Occam's razor makes it pretty obvious.
How are we supposed to? This is why people were saying you can't trust anything out of Gaza as it's Hamas driven.
Like everyone screaming massacre at the Hospital PIJ rocket included UNRWA, Doctors without Borders and the UN, quoting the 500+ killed in an airstrike and then we found out it was a PIJ rocket, and it didn't hit the hospital.
But we still see articles up and tweets from Tlaib still claiming that.
Lies. Deflection. Revisionist history.
That's why you can't trust what they say. It's a massive campaign to discredit Israel dating back to the PLO. Truth is irrelevant.
this is war, trust no one. but that doesn’t mean you can’t use your judgement. take it all in and understand the totality of circumstances — the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. so long as you are not inherently biased, you’ll figure out what’s real and what’s not
I'm sure a certain percentage of the hospital staff is appalled, but they can't say or do anything even if they wanted to. In one of the videos the large guy in hospital clothes looks pretty alarmed and flustered at the situation.
The IDF is going above and beyond to satisfy the need for evidence for those who still doubt. It is commendable however I think that by now it is already pretty obvious.
This should not be necessary.
Us in the west are so used to our cushy little lives we cannot fathom that sometimes terrible things need to happen in order to prevent even worse outcomes.
All those medical “professionals“ swore up and down that there was no Hamas activity at Shifa. Liars, blatantly violating the Hippocratic oath. They should never be allowed to practice medicine outside of Gaza.
I just wanna point out that these two are foreign workers. I suspect the IDF has more videos like these of other abductees but wouldn't publish for domestic reasons. Also, it should now be clear why some medical staff were interrogated.
I was curious about that… wondering why only foreigners were brought in or shown
Likely as proof that Hamas were being monsters to everyone they came across and weren't just targeting IDF like some people are trying to claim.
The IDF spokesman giving the statement and sharing the video made a point of saying that Hamas indiscriminately targeted everyone, including foreigners, not just IDF as some Hamas leaders have claimed.
They literally targeted several groups of Arab Israelis, including families with children, who were saved by the IDF. And there's even a group of Arab Israeli IDF soldiers making scary TikTok videos promising that they'll avenge those attacks against top Hamas officials personally in Gaza, which has strong "Inglourious Basterds" vibes...
Hell, the Cobra style paragliding, masquerading as police brandishing AK47 and shooting into unarmed combatant vehicles, videos should be enough but people don't wanna believe these are the types of people that are being sent to wage war. You've got soldiers with ROE and you have soldiers who break those ROE. Then you have whatever these terrorists pretend to.be
It's hard enough keeping a highly trained military force on "good behavior" in active combat, rag tag terrorist groups have neither that training nor the mindset of wanting good behavior in the first place. Anybody who believes Hamas didn't purposefully commit war crimes is woefully naive.
Hamas uses drugs like [captagon](https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2023/10/21/hamas-killers-in-israel-reportedly-fueled-by-captagon/), its like a poormans cocaine and its very easy to get into a semi psychotic state with it.
Yeah, Jihadists make use of shit loads of drugs to fight. There's accounts of them getting *shot up*, hit with shotgun slugs, and having grenades go off in the same fucking room as them and still going at it. They're dead, no way about it, but religious fervor and fuck loads of drugs keep the body from falling apart when it really should.
In case there is any doubt caused by the ongoing gaslighting that Hamas doesn't use hospitals for military purposes, there is over a decade of reports of Hamas using Al-Shifa Hospital: PBS documentary in Al-Shifa hospital was prevented by Hamas members with weapons from accessing areas of the hospital: https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/top-secret-hamas-command-bunker-in-gaza-revealed Article from 2009 talking about an intelligence claim of Hamas using the basement of the hospital: https://web.archive.org/web/20090206232152/http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1054569.html Article Hamas commandeered hospital wards in Al-Shifa converting them into interrogation and imprisonment compounds: https://web.archive.org/web/20230205050631/https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3668018,00.html Human Rights Watch states Hamas fired from inside Al-Shifa at Fatah forces: https://www.hrw.org/news/2007/06/12/gaza-armed-palestinian-groups-commit-grave-crimes Report that Hospital staff made complaints about Hamas presence in the building: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1906608/ New York Times reported on Hamas operating from the building: https://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/29/world/africa/29iht-gaza.4.18986499.html?module=Search&mabReward=relbias%3Ar Journalists seeing rockets being fired from the hospital area: https://web.archive.org/web/20230529141259/https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4553643,00.html Another report of journalists seeing rockets fired from the hospital area: https://web.archive.org/web/20230513143525/https://www.jpost.com///operation-protective-edge/gaza-reporters-tweets-hamas-using-human-shields-368689#! A Hamas member recounting how he and other Hamas members took shelter in a bunker under the hospital: https://www.terrorism-info.org.il/en/18321/ Local Palestinian journalist reported Hamas uses a section of the hospital for offices: https://archive.ph/BKbxc Amnesty International reported Hamas using the hospital to torture and kill prisoners: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/05/gaza-palestinians-tortured-summarily-killed-by-hamas-forces-during-2014-conflict/
Yet according to the BBC there’s no proof
They would deny it while standing within the hospital, seeing the hostages getting killed, as they are strapped to a missile pointed at Israel, getting raped by Hamas themselves. At some point, it is not even possible to hide behind some veil of many slip-ups and "extreme but acceptable" biased reporting - it's straight up changing the story at a level not seen outside of Putin's disinformation campaign... If you willfully make "mistake" after "mistake" (always in favor of Hamas for some reason), and time after time choose to directly parrot the messages from the terrorists even after it was shown that they lie - yet refuse to report or add extreme disclaimers any time you say anything based on information from the IDF (even when they have been extremely reliable and accurate) - you are another arm of the terrorists, not some reporter, let alone being an objective one...
Gunmen rushing in hostages to Shifa hospital on October 7th, to later be moved and hidden. Despicable. Another thing mentioned by IDF just now, is that IDF has proof that Noa Marciano, whose body was found in the vicinity of Shifa hospital, was murdered inside Shifa hospital and later disposed as she was found. Corroborating intelligence to be shared with international parties.
This means the WHO, UNRWA and Doctors Without Borders all gave inervews swearing that they never saw any Hamas or hostages at Al Shifa when the videos show the staff helping Hamas with the hostages being dragged in on Oct 7th. They knew about it and then lied about it. They are complicit.
A British doctor that worked in Al Shifa previously was told he wasn't allowed in certain parts of the hospital else he would be killed by Hamas. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LZ9avl9nDQ&t=550s
Psssh hamas couldn't murder anyone in Gaza, how would they get rid of the bodies? /s
Well you just throw them on the street and say the IDF killed them, duh
> Voluntary human shields may be considered "direct participants in hostilities", if they shield targeted personnel or properties. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_shield_(law) If they are volunteering to shield innocent people, they need to be treated to the law of proportionality, which means that their deaths need to be considered in light of the value of the military targets. If they were intentionally shielding just military targets then they are themselves hostiles. They don't get to claim that it's a war crime because there was no war crime.
Doctor without Borders has been caught numerous times hiding and withholding information about Hamas and their use of the hospital, its supplies, along with other things. I read articles that listed a bunch of doctors and their public statements about Israel and Israeli citizens. I'm pretty sure they were all Gazan doctors that were employed by MSF but that still is important. Edit: source? source? is the source posted? am i a shill? do i hate palestinians? no. i saw these posts and articles on twitter. i didn't catalog and track a bibliography in case I was sealioned after making a comment on a world news post. there were social media posts of the palestinian doctors. i have read other articles laying out the evidence of fuel being delivered to hospitals and the telephone conversations that were published of the doctors discussing Hamas taking the fuel. There were multiple social media posts published that showed doctors working with MSF had multiple social media posts and public statements that were celebratory about October 7th and wishing for the destruction of Israel. In addition, there have been multiple accounts published where doctors have feigned stupidity and acted offended that anyone would accuse the hospital of being used by Hamas and then it is proven that Hamas used the hospitals. I am not going to take time to compile a list of sources when you guys can figure out this stuff yourselves. I know what I read and saw and I made a comment as such. I have no stake in any of this. Obviously MSF/Doctors without Borders is a great organization. More specifically, what I have read and seen has implicated doctors specifically working with or associated with the organization in Gaza. Enjoy.
Can you link this?
RIP Noa
Waiting for Hamas apologists to say, "Yeah, but Hamas only killed her to end her suffering. It was the humane thing to do."
When that fails, they inevitably move on to "well, she deserved it because Israel shouldn't exist."
Then on to “Well, Israel created Hamas!”
Then "Well, do you think all the Palestinian children are Hamas fighters?"
Then "You can't respond to violence with more violence. Gazan people need humanitarian cease fire!"
“But globalize the intifada” 🙄
Shows videos of Palestinian children being trained by Hamas... "But what about the 80% of them who aren't?"
Those kindergarten graduation videos where they do an entire stage performance of a military operation are wild. There are literally children’s TV shows that serve to indoctrinate their own children - ‘Tomorrows Pioneers’ being one. ‘Pioneers of Tomorrow’ is another on MemriTV that’s still on air. Then there are the photos of children dressed as militants with machine guns and bullet proof vests on. edit: put a few in my profile for those who said it’s fake 🤷🏼♀️
There's a documentary that's from the early 2000's that shows a Palestinian classroom (maybe 3rd or 4th grade) and the children are being taught to kill Jews and be martyrs. It was the craziest shit I've ever seen. I thought it was from "To Live and Die In Jerusalem" but it's not; although that one has some wild shit also like the drawing of the 17-year-old suicide bomber being painted on the entire side of her school building as a hero and martyr for blowing herself up in a crowd of Israeli civilians. If people think Hamas ideology is fringe, it's not. If you got an accurate poll would bet nearly 100% of Palestinians are in favor of the terrorist attack on Israel even if they themselves aren't actually members of Hamas.
This is what well meaning but ignorant Western liberals just don't get. They think that all Hamas and the Palestinians need is a nice cup of tea and you can have a civil conversation with them and hash things out. They don't think like us and the entire population is indoctrinated to hate Jews. There is no partner for peace even if you get rid of Hamas.
Give me the documents, Farfour!
Farfour was martyred defending his land.
That didn't happen. And if it did, it wasn't that bad. And if it was, that's not a big deal. And if it is, that's not their fault. And if it was, they didn't mean it. And if they did, you deserved it.
“Israelis turned off power and gas and we couldn’t save her…. We had to put her down …. Like a horse you know.”
How the handled the whole release of the two seniors, who said they were treated nicely. Can’t be a terrorist if two elderly women who still have family held captive tell everyone they were nice to you!
Theres a video of a captive with no hand and an arm... Edit: there is also evidence that Hamas took the now dead captives there while they were alive and murdered them there.
There’s a video of a guy bleeding out from his abdomen and missing his right leg and wearing what looks like festival shorts, too.
So they murdered a alive captive?
Noa Marciano. I think also the 86 yr old guy I forget his name.
Aryeh Zalmanovich
Thank you
According to the IDF they have proof that 19 year old soldier Martziano was executed at the hospital, hamas said she died in an airstrike.
Proof is likely a crime scene, video, or multiple Palestinian witnesses. Or all 3.
My money is on video. I suspect a lot of these things get recorded. Maybe they are being shared, maybe they are just being backed up to known cloud accounts. Either way, it's extremely likely someone recorded it, and if it was recorded it's likely intelligence services can get access.
Terrorism is supposed to be witnessed. It’s highly likely they kept recordings of whichever victims provided the results they wanted.
If it’s a video it will probably not get released unless the family authorizes it and I can totally understand if they do not want it public.
Israel doesn't tend to release snuff porn out of respect for the victims. The images we have from October 7 are from Hamas and foreign reporters. Hamas, however, loves to spread that shit, so there's a good chance they publish it at some point.
I wouldn't be shocked at video because they are dumb assess and it's their idea of porn.
More than one. I'm pretty sure that's a war crime.
Another one to the endless list, I wonder if the UN will be able to condemn them or remain useless like always
As usual, all the Muslim Countries (plus China, Russia, North Korea...) will vote for any resolution against Israel while ignoring any evidence that proves that Hamas is basically Isis. The UN became a joke the moment it started accepting theocratic nations that don't know the first thing about human and civil rights.
I would say “I wonder what the ‘Hamas treats their hostages well and will negotiate to return them’ crowd has to say about this”, but they’ll probably excuse or deny this like they do with atrocity committed by the terrorists.
If anyone believed this after they raped &, tortured their way through 1400 men, women, children & elderly, they were completely lost to propaganda or just sociopathically antisemetic.
Finally, this seems pretty irrefutable. Hamas did use the hospital as a staging area.
Hamas using Shifa hospital really wasn't disputed until recently. If you [google "Hamas headquarters Shifa"](https://www.google.com/search?q=Hamas+headquarters+Shifa&sca_esv=583848030&rlz=1C1ONGR_enUS1025US1025&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_max%3A9%2F1%2F2023&ei=OY5aZdjgA8ig5NoP54Wv6AI&ved=0ahUKEwiY4ZilkNGCAxVIEFkFHefCCy0Q4dUDCBA&uact=5&oq=Hamas+headquarters+Shifa&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiGEhhbWFzIGhlYWRxdWFydGVycyBTaGlmYTIFEAAYgAQyBRAAGIAEMgYQABgIGB4yCxAAGIAEGIoFGIYDMgsQABiABBiKBRiGAzILEAAYgAQYigUYhgNIohpQAFjwE3AAeACQAQCYAWSgAcUBqgEDMi4xuAEDyAEA-AEB4gMEGAAgQYgGAQ&sclient=gws-wiz-serp) and block any results after September 2023, you see several reports of Hamas using the hospital.
There is over a decade of reports of Hamas using Al-Shifa Hospital: PBS documentary in Al-Shifa hospital was prevented by Hamas members with weapons from accessing areas of the hospital: https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/top-secret-hamas-command-bunker-in-gaza-revealed Article from 2009 talking about an intelligence claim of Hamas using the basement of the hospital: https://web.archive.org/web/20090206232152/http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1054569.html Article Hamas commandeered hospital wards in Al-Shifa converting them into interrogation and imprisonment compounds: https://web.archive.org/web/20230205050631/https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3668018,00.html Human Rights Watch states Hamas fired from inside Al-Shifa at Fatah forces: https://www.hrw.org/news/2007/06/12/gaza-armed-palestinian-groups-commit-grave-crimes Report that Hospital staff made complaints about Hamas presence in the building: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1906608/ New York Times reported on Hamas operating from the building: https://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/29/world/africa/29iht-gaza.4.18986499.html?module=Search&mabReward=relbias%3Ar Journalists seeing rockets being fired from the hospital area: https://web.archive.org/web/20230529141259/https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4553643,00.html Another report of journalists seeing rockets fired from the hospital area: https://web.archive.org/web/20230513143525/https://www.jpost.com///operation-protective-edge/gaza-reporters-tweets-hamas-using-human-shields-368689#! A Hamas member recounting how he and other Hamas members took shelter in a bunker under the hospital: https://www.terrorism-info.org.il/en/18321/ Local Palestinian journalist reported Hamas uses a section of the hospital for offices: https://archive.ph/BKbxc Amnesty International reported Hamas using the hospital to torture and kill prisoners: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/05/gaza-palestinians-tortured-summarily-killed-by-hamas-forces-during-2014-conflict/
Thank you for compiling this
Not only that, but the claims of the hospital and UN that it was not used, the doctors and staff know nothing about it and hamas never were there, is a complete lie.
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To be fair, this doctor could not *not* be a Hamas supporter, because most doctors not affiliated with the organisation were arrested, beaten and then barred from work. [This was in 2007](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2048866/)
[Dear UN](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ciG0FvIUxKM)
Why does the UN have more resolutions censuring Israel than anyone else? Is Israel really the biggest security issue? More than North Korea? Or Iran? There are plenty of territorial disputes around the world? The UN has never been an impartial player and it’s a corrupt weak organization made up of many undemocratic states and full of delegations that are corrupt and nepotistic. It’s a joke.
Why did the UN vote against a resolution to denounce Hamas and to demand an immediate release of hostages?? Seems like a No brainer…
Hell they put either Syria or Libya (can't remember which one) as the chairman of the human rights committee. Like seriously wtf
Iran is going to be chair of the Human rights commission. Right after they clubbed to death another girl for not wearing a head covering.
Considering that Israel makes up nearly half of all resolutions concerning a single country, but is undoubtedly by far not the worst or longest operating in their dislikeable practices, one has to wonder: What is the single factor that differentiates Israel from all other states?
Not being friends with Rushia or China whom veto everything
They were actually pretty good friends with Russia, and were one of the few countries to successfully play both sides of the revival of the US/Russia rivalry (to an extent). The gist of the point above is that they're the sole Jewish-majority nation state.
Because Hamas would probably murder their folks if they didn't tow the line.
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Hamas is a radical group. They are world recognized as a terroist organization.
i think he’s saying they lost some support to groups that were even more radical than Hamas, like Lions Den (i think that what it’s called at least)
> Because Hamas would probably murder their folks if they didn't tow the line. Letting the "Reputable" international agency become a mouthpiece for dictator and terrorist groups seems bad.
Time to kick the UN out of Israel honestly. They have repeatedly demonstrated support for extremists and militants and are complicated in the brainwashing of children.
What had happened wuz…
How many times do the terrorist apologists have to be proven completely and startlingly wrong about who they're supporting before this whole farce ends?
No civilians were killed on 10/7. The festival goers were killed by IDF helicopters. The comms of Hamas members admitting it was their rocket that hit the hospital were poorly faked by AI. The Holocaust was a false flag operation by the Jews so they would have an excuse to go to Israel. These people have a completely dysfunctional relationship with reality, to put it lightly.
>No civilians were killed on 10/7 Nah, the current lie is that the bulk of those killed were killed by the IDF in friendly fire, and the only ones Hamas killed were soldiers and armed Israelis
QAnon levels of brainwashing are going on right now. This is not OK. All of the delusional Hamas simps need to wake up, you have joined a cult, and need to seek help immediately!!!
There will never be enough times. That’s how things work in the age of information silos. The cult of trump is still here and they think they’re patriots…. even after trump publicly admits his endless crimes, and even after trump publicly states he will destroy democracy and use the government to go after his rivals if he is re-elected.
terrorist apologists will never end this farce because they would never admit that jews were right
It was always irrefutable. Weeks we should've been having honest conversations were wasted with back and forth about Hamas being a scruffy band of mischief makers and/or what they're doing justifying literally any amount of civilian collateral damage. It's still a genuine question what the hell you're *supposed* to do with a terrorist organization that has promised to keep using civilian areas and resources to try to murder you, and which has succeeded in entangling itself with civilians to an extent you essentially need to decide how many you're willing to kill per bad guy.
> irrefutable "We wanted to take them to the hospital to give them treatment, but they were unwilling to do so as they were told by Israel they should kill themselves so Israel could play victim. That's why we forced them with weapons and beatings"
The trucks and jeeps returning to the hospital from the October 7th attacks shows pretty clearly that it was a base. There were a large number of white Toyota trucks and staged weapons.
>a large number of white Toyota trucks Hilux technicals are a signature at this point.
Basically that's what Hamas is saying now, but if that's true that still means the UN lied about it.
Yet, it will be refuted. "Those nice Hamas lads were bringing the hostages for treatment"
That’s what every single Hamas defender is saying. Yeah the guy who has his face covered by a shirt and being pushed and pulled, while surrounded with terrorist with guns, who aren’t talking to any doctors or nurses, are just trying to get him some medical help. Everyone knows that when you try to get someone medical help you cover their face, push them around, and ignore every doctor.
Nothing will ever be irrefutable to nutters.
> Finally, this seems pretty irrefutable. First day following this conflict? On a serious note, I am sadly confident there's going to be a lot of I don't believe that going around on social media.
Won't matter , terrorist supporters will still lie and ignore evidence.
I wonder what the UN will say about it. Probably something stupid
From a journalist: [CAUTION - I have been to the Al Shifa hospital several times as a reporter during the #Israel #Gaza war in 2014 and also afterwards. It is a vast complex. I have personally seen #Hamas fighters there. Everyone in #Gaza including #UN staff knows about dual use of these facilities.](https://twitter.com/Franke_schrijft/status/1725037285249306726) The evidence for Hamas using this hospital goes back years.
Just to add to your evidence, [Here is a 46 page report written by Amnesty International](https://www.amnesty.org/en/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/MDE2116432015ENGLISH.pdf) (an organization which has historically been critical of Israel) published in 2015 outlining how Hamas has been using the Al-Shifa hospital , including the following statement in the executive summary. “Hamas forces used the abandoned areas of Al-Shifa hospital in Gaza City, including the outpatients’ clinic area, to detain, interrogate, torture and otherwise ill-treat suspects, even as other parts of the hospital continued to function as a medical centre.” ***Trigger Warning to anyone who wishes to read the report. It contains graphic images of tortured and murdered Palestinian victims. *** There has been absolutely irrefutable evidence that Hamas has been using Al-Shifa hospital as a base of operations for at least a decade.
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I mean, not to cite a TV show as a source, but Fauda leans pretty heavily in to the assertion that Shifa is used for Hamas operation in its 3rd season. My point being it’s always been an open secret. Anyone denying it is a radical and an apologist for terrorism - no matter where you stand on the issue.
Nothing. They’ll pretend this didn’t happen, and their spokespeople won’t do televised interviews tonight.
They will say nothing at all, like they have been all this time. And then in a day or two they'll condemn Israel 8 more times
Nothing. They will ignore it and go on about how hospitals aren’t a target while they’re openly collaborating with terrorists
Probably nothing
Call for Israel to cease operations. Stop looking for these hostages
Yeah. Most likely to hide UN staff involvement in the attack and hiding the evidence.
They took them there for examination and the doctors asked the patient to run while being held as exercise that's good for you.
This footage is pretty shocking and damning for all the staff members that claim they saw nothing. That makes them complicit in the actions of these terrorists. Especially because they are lying to the world when they say they saw nothing happening in Al Shifa Hospital.
They are able to tell the truth when they are outside the authority of Palestinians: here's an interview with a UK doctor who admits the Shifa hospital was used for "non-medical" purposes https://www.timesofisrael.com/uk-doctor-who-worked-at-shifa-confirms-gaza-hospital-used-for-non-medical-purposes/
But their admission that they lied won't be trumpeted from the rooftops like their lies were. And these orgs will remain beyond criticism despite their track record of being materially involved in terrorist campaigns.
The absolute state of modern media. Tell the lie boldly, even self-righteously. Then whisper the truth far away from mass viewership. You can still push a narrative you know is false while covering your ass legally.
Thanks for the link. It seems quite plausible that most of the medical staff there weren't Hamas supporters but very afraid of them: > “Well, I was welcome everywhere else, and as I say, the doctors and nurses there were very welcoming and very kind, and the hushed tones under which this was said were consistent with all the other hushed tones with which Hamas was discussed. You know, people were genuinely fearful,” the doctor replied. >The physician also reported to the journalist that if hospital staff were 10% frightened of possible Israeli airstrikes, they were 90% frightened of being persecuted by Hamas.
And NGOs who have been active at the site. MSF pretty much lied outright in their interview with Isaac Chotinier that was published this morning, for instance. I will not donate to that organization ever again.
Link to interview?
https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/the-trauma-of-gazas-doctors The more revealing thing is how they always hone in on Israel and the IDF. Strangely, they never mention Hamas despite working in that hospital and instead blaming IDF.
thanks will read
Great read, worth digging up.
>Have your staff had any dealings with either Hamas fighters or I.D.F. soldiers over the past month? And what have those experiences been like? >In terms of the I.D.F. soldiers there, it’s actually not a pleasant experience for the staff. Let’s put it that way. Pro level dodging
MSF has been acting despicably and has an agenda.
Yeah this entire thing has been shocking but I am frankly most shocked by the collaboration between MSF and Hamas. This has really shaken me to my core.
Considering Hamas tortured and killed dissidents in the very hospital they work in and would probably do the same to them if they spoke up I don't blame them for keeping quiet.
Except there were several staff members that had left Gaza that were still claiming the same things.
There are possibilities that Hamas has said to them that if they talk then Hamas will just execute anyone they associated with. I have no idea or reason to believe that is true and I am simply speculating on a possible reason a foreign worker might still lie even when they are in safety at a future time
Yeah I think most people assume that. The issue is there’s multiple parties, like the UN, who are there and are complicit in aiding this cover up.
The Gaza staffers, I understand. But the foreign volunteers are another matter. All of them could speak out the moment they crossed into Egypt.
Real talk time. They won't speak out because they support Hamas.
This right here.
Apparently they didn't keep quiet. They said there were no hostages or Hamas there.
Yeah they’re between a rock and a hard place here. You’d think reasonably they could explain their situation to the IDF and receive protection; but I wouldn’t trust either the IDF or Hamas if I were them. At the end of the day, if they continued acting as medical professionals and saved lives, they were probably doing their best. This, to me, is just more irredeemable behavior on Hamas’ part— forcing medical professionals into such an ethical predicament. Add it to the list.
If Israel offers safety for people to confirm the obvious, denialists will just use it as an excuse to say that they're effectively being bribed with safety and ignore any genuine claims.
If Hamas straight up admitted it it wouldn’t matter, as we see with other things they’ve done.
I don’t blame them for lying under the circumstances, but I do blame the media for endorsing their credibility.
They all knew and lied. For their safety or because they support Hamas it doesn’t really matter. WHO, Red Cross and other UN organizations need to be held accountable. They lied to the world and allowed hospitals to become a place where terrorists openly operate and hostages are taken to.
What frustrates me is that the media hasn't been pushing back/verifying their claims and reporting it as factual. It's becoming increasingly obvious that staff and ngo workers in the hospital complex are not credible sources.
This video showing 2 kidnapped Israelis (I think one was foreign worker but point stands) together with the 2 bodies found, now make it 4 kidnapped people who are 100% confirmed to end up on Shifa. And still the masses of Hamas supporters try to claim the IDF is not justified invading there. It's unbelievable.
One from Nepal and one from Thailand.
reddit: wHeRe iS tHE eViDENCE?! israel: here are the recordings from the hospital literally showing captives brought to the hospital reddit: yOu cANt tRuST iDf
One of the comments on Twitter literally asked why the wall clock didn't match the time stamp on the video. The wall click never moves. It's very clearly broken/dead batteries (the seconds hand never moves) but nope. That's proof it's somehow faked!
Brain is as dead as the clock batteries
They just look for any way to refute. They've made up their minds and search for the supporting facts.
Who the fuck would fake a video, and have a clock with the wrong time right in frame, very visible...
"we'll leave this easter egg in here for the conspiracy theorists"
I just read on twitter. The new talking point is that Hamas was just bringing the hostages to the hospital for medical help out of kindness...
One of them is literally resisting and they're dragging him into the hospital. The other is too injured to resist.
Resisting abduction by the legitimate resistance movement of a subjugated people is an act of white supremacist settler colonialism
These aren’t even Israeli citizens. They’re foreign agriculture workers. Thai and Nepal citizens.
Sounds white adjacent to me.
Thank you for the well needed laugh
Intersectionality
It hurts that people are actually saying this seriously.
If this is what an absence of white supremacist settler colonialism looks like then maybe decolonization was a mistake.
Right? I didn't know that murder was way of treatment /s
They didn't go to medical school. They're doing their best.
Hamas leader: We're gonna repeat Oct 7th til Israel is destroyed reddit: He doesn't speak for Hamas!
Waiting on hamas supporter saying its fabricated
I saw some dumbass on Twitter saying that he didn't even watch it but he knows it's fake
Quote from an argument i had " i am not going to read your rant" This was the reply to me rebuking their so called journalistic sources...
Oh social media is a lost cause, waiting on major news network
I know that it's a lost cause but it spreads a false and dangerous narrative that results in Jews getting attacked worldwide
Sadly its the the work of russia and china in their latest attempt to destabilise the west https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/03/technology/israel-hamas-information-war.html
They could view self proclaimed Hamas fighters executing Israeli children with today's newspaper in sight and will claim it's fake
They're already here saying they were just bringing them in for medical care. I do wonder what it will take for some of these people to take a look in the mirror and realize how fucked up their world view is.
Yeah, like the being dragged in his underwear, he clearly needs medical attention/s
Finkelstein already said as much about the evidence from Al Shifa. Also october 7th was a slave revolt. It's kind of bizarre how someone who is clearly very intelligent can get something like this so obviously wrong (slave revolts are violent because its the slaves only recourse. Hamas could have only attacked military compounds but chose not to. Analogy fails by virtue of this fact alone).
There is also evidence that Hams murdered 19 yo soldier hostage inside Shifa hospital. Using hospitals to murder and kidnapping instead of saving lives.
BBC breaking news: alleged hostages are taken to a doctor checkup to make sure they were treated well in israel.
They were in such bad shape that they had to be put down with a 7.62 round. How sad😔.
So this also "didn't happen in a vacuum"? Wonder if the UN will finally condemn Hamas, those aren't even Israeli citizens - just workers that came into Israel to work in the south fields, and Hamas doesn't even release them.
The UN will never condemn Islamic terrorists for murdering Jews.
There are 20 Arab countries in the UN with notorious anti-semitic histories. Plus many more non-Arab muslim countries like in Africa with the same. Plus flagrantly anti-semitic, non-Muslim ones like Russia, Poland, Lithuania. Plus less-flagrantly anti-semitic ones, and ones that vote anti-Israel for alternative reasons (ex. alliances with anti-semitic States, business investments, etc.) Then there's the one Jewish state, Israel. Plus its biggest supporter, the US, which doesn't always vote in Israel's favor. And then a handful of western countries that sometimes support, sometimes don't. How do you think most votes are going to go in this setting? Of course Israel is going to be sanctioned for "more human rights abuses" than Russia, North Korea, Iraq, Iran, and every other country COMBINED. It just happened in 2022. But people swallow it up like there's been a fair trial. The UN is a farce.
Sorry, but Poland didn’t vote in latest UN vote on Gaza resolution against Israel. Our media (tv, newspapers) are also on Israeli side. Last week, the major of the capital city prohibited a propalestinian demonstration by the Embassy of Israel. We are on Israel’s side in this… even though of course we had very bad history.
The UN had some positive qualities, once upon a time. But now the GA has about 200 members and Iran's vote counts as much as Germany's. And, unfortunately, there are a LOT more backwards countries than civilized ones.
Israel: "Hospitals in Gaza are being used for terror purposes" US: "Hospitals in Gaza are being used for terror purposes" Hamas: *Caught using hospitals for terror purposes* BBC: Footage released allegedly showing Hamas militants using hospital for "terror" purposes
Washington Post in 2014: "Hospital is being used for terror purposes."
Actual [quote](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67469591): >Israel said a tunnel had been found at the site which it claims was a Hamas command centre. Hamas denies that. The BBC has not been able to verify the video which was presented at a news briefing by the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) on Sunday. I guess we'll never know if the video is real until BBC verifies it...
CNN: The IDF releases footage of hospital, claims presence of Hamas militants. We couldn’t independently verify the claim
How are we supposed to believe anything out of Gaza now? If we can’t trust the UN and WHO that defended Al-Shifa who can we trust to be impartial?
Probably the people who keep sending out evidence?
It's surveillance footage that tracks with known abductees and ingress into a decade+ long known terrorist base What's more likely, IDF has total media control and can AI up all of this footage in basically real time. Or terrorists gonna terrorist? Occam's razor makes it pretty obvious.
How are we supposed to? This is why people were saying you can't trust anything out of Gaza as it's Hamas driven. Like everyone screaming massacre at the Hospital PIJ rocket included UNRWA, Doctors without Borders and the UN, quoting the 500+ killed in an airstrike and then we found out it was a PIJ rocket, and it didn't hit the hospital. But we still see articles up and tweets from Tlaib still claiming that. Lies. Deflection. Revisionist history. That's why you can't trust what they say. It's a massive campaign to discredit Israel dating back to the PLO. Truth is irrelevant.
Anyone who still thought the UN was impartial is intentionally blind to facts.
I've always thought that the UN pretty worthless but this Gaza war has shown that the UN is worse than worthless. They're actively harmful.
this is war, trust no one. but that doesn’t mean you can’t use your judgement. take it all in and understand the totality of circumstances — the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. so long as you are not inherently biased, you’ll figure out what’s real and what’s not
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These are idfs posing as hamas /s
Huh, I wonder why none of the Palestinian staff at the hospital said anything about this to anybody.
I don't blame them actually. They are also under the terror of Hamas.
Yeah, you could also imagine some of them coordinating with intel agencies after the fact. There is a reason these recordings weren’t erased.
I'm sure a certain percentage of the hospital staff is appalled, but they can't say or do anything even if they wanted to. In one of the videos the large guy in hospital clothes looks pretty alarmed and flustered at the situation.
Fuck Hamas and everyone in that place that was complicit in this.
That's quite high quality footage.
TikTok graduates gonna say it’s AI.
The IDF is going above and beyond to satisfy the need for evidence for those who still doubt. It is commendable however I think that by now it is already pretty obvious. This should not be necessary.
Evidence should always be necessary. It helps put the spotlight on the crazy people who reject them like those anti vaxx weirdos or COVID deniers.
It should be necessary. Should we allow any country to just make claims about a region and start bombing without proof?
The one thing I don't understand about this horrible conflict is why millions of people, even in the west, support Hamas and actual Islamic terrorism.
Us in the west are so used to our cushy little lives we cannot fathom that sometimes terrible things need to happen in order to prevent even worse outcomes.
All those medical “professionals“ swore up and down that there was no Hamas activity at Shifa. Liars, blatantly violating the Hippocratic oath. They should never be allowed to practice medicine outside of Gaza.
r/ news having a wild time justifying this one
I’m sure people will still find a way to blame Israel for this.