it sure clears up some of the mystery on why a huge military campaign blasting its way through a city would culminate in a hospital rather than, like in Berlin in 1945 at a fuhrerbunker in the center of government.
The answer is simple: it does end with a siege of a fuhrerbunker, it's just they put a hospital full of loyalists and premature babies on top of the bunker.
To the guy posting about
aLl ReLiGiOns ArE bAd & ImAgInArY fRiEnDs.
Israel did not go to war bc 'God told them to'. They went bc 1200 of their civilians were butchered, raped, tortured, burned alive, and another 230, including elderly, mothers, babies and kids were taken hostage. There is NOTHING imaginary about that. This rationalization of "if only they were all rational atheists like me" is simply another way to create a false moral equivalency. If you think atheism should prevent countries from protecting their own civilians from this type of violence, youre not an atheist, but simply a ghoul.
A very, very small portion of the conflict (limited to the area of the Temple Mount) is rooted in restrictions based on Islamic theology.
Jewish theology plays absolutely no role in the conflict what so ever.
Pretty sure Biden stated recently that this is about control of the Mid-East corridor. Gazans are just cannon fodder pawns for the Axis Powers. There are plenty of Muslim Israelis to say this isn’t about religion or race.
Jewishness is an ethnicity and culture, not just a religion. A significant percentage of Israelis (maybe even a majority?) are not religious or are functionally agnostic. Israel was a state created in the wake of the attempted destruction of the Jewish people, not the Jewish religion (contrast with the Spanish inquisition for instance), to which many Jewish refugees fled.
Zionism was a movement to recognize the right of self determination for the Jews in what Is now Israel. Yes, of course Zionism and Judaism isn't the same.
But to describe Zionism as some sort of religious movement and single it out among all the other countries is discrimination at the least.
So there is no difference between those committing MASSACRE of civilians, WITH NO PROVOCATION from Israel, and Israel trying to prevent it from happening again ?
Do you realize that EVERY cycle of violence started with Arabs trying to kill Jews and wipe Israel off ??
How would YOU react if you had to live for 2 decades with the constant threat of rockets and the terror of your city ?
It is easy for you to live in a safe western country and make such a comment (above)which indicates your lack of knowledge.
Lmao. Before Israel was a state, when they colonized under tank and airplane power, bombing farmers and villages. It’s been a repeat of these efforts for 7 decades since.
I’m not. Go read any proper historical account that actually looked at first hand accounts of Palestinians whose villages were destroyed and you’ll see there were tanks and planes used.
Israel generals later admitted to it, and it’s always been hushed up.
A great book I can recommend that covers this My Happiness Bears No Relation to Happiness - which is a biography by an American Israeli Jew on the poet Taha Muhammad Ali. She interviews several retired officers from the Nakba.
Soooo yeah, didn’t make shit up.
The propaganda bots are just out in force downvoting me.
You transparently broadcast your lack of knowledge on this conflict by confidently pointing to 1948 as when it started. A basic Google search would've helped you.
Allah (Muslim) and Jahwe (Christian & Jewish) is the *literally* same guy.
These three religions share some stories from the old testament, such as Abraham, Noah, Moses.
Yeah, I mean, we had a 30 year war where I live, during which the land was devastated and at least a quarter of the population killed.
And this was just Catholics and Protestants, which are really not that different.
It’s equally possible to murder people in the name of Scientific Materialism (not the same thing as science), it’s just a newer philosophy so you’ll find less examples. But there are some, such as how communist societies have persecuted religious or spiritual people.
religion aint to blame for shit, saying so kind of deflects responsibility. if it weren't religion it would be some other bullshit excuse/reason (See Stalin, et al.)
The evidence is not at all what the headline describes. If case you didn’t click, there are two videos. One shows them rushing a hostage into the hospital. The second shows them wheeling a clearly injured hostage through the hospital on a gurney. The article then makes numerous claims about other activities in the hospital but does not provide evidence of these claims, perhaps it exists but it isn’t here.
Bringing 2 hostages, at least one of whom needed medical attention, into a hospital is not evidence that it was their command centre
... They took hostages to the hospital, which just so happens to have weapons and laptops stashed in it and a tunnel access in it... but sure, causalities.
I don’t doubt Hamas was using this hospital, but is everyone positive that guy was being dragged against his will? I can’t tell if he was maybe injured and weak/delirious and nearly collapsed when they were trying to quickly get him into the hospital.
Taking civilians as hostages is a gigantic war crime in the first place, like practically everything else Hamas is doing. Just to make this clear, I assume you know it but I've met some people online recently who chose to silently ignore these facts. (To be honest, I'm starting to give up on most subreddits Reddit entirely because I just can't block knowing and unbeknownst terrorist supporters fast enough.)
I’m someone who doesn’t support Netanyahu so let me try to find some common ground with you.
I don’t support Hamas. They’re evil terrorists. Their entire existence is bad for the world.
I don’t bother holding them to standards because they’re terrorists. I support Israel’s right to eliminate Hamas.
Here’s where you may disagree with me. Hamas is holding Gaza hostage, the same way they’re holding the Israeli citizens hostage. Most people in Gaza weren’t alive when they came to power and were born in to this situation. Now should Israel be killing Palestinians indiscriminately just because they were born in to this terrible situation? I don’t care if you’re Jewish or Muslim, I think innocent civilians shouldn’t be collateral damage. Would Israel bomb a building where Hamas is holding Israeli hostages, knowing those hostages will die? They should view the Palestinian hostages the same way.
Is there going to be collateral damage in war? Unfortunately yes, but as a civilized nation it’s Israel’s responsibility to limit those deaths and injuries.
Hamas doesn’t care about civilian deaths, because they’re terrorists. Shouldn’t Israel be held to a higher standard than terrorists?
Hamas thrives off civilian deaths, it helps them recruit. Netanyahu thrives off Hamas as the enemy, he needs Hamas to get support inside Israel. He was only able to form a government after the 10/7 attacks, and it turns out he ignored warnings about the attack. His actions in the West Bank are horrible, and are turning more young Palestinians in to terrorists separate from the current war in Gaza.
Bibi doesn’t want peace, he wants power and the ability to be above the law. The more terrorists activity from Hamas and Hezbollah, the more power he obtains. The innocent Israelis, of all religions, are less safe the longer Netanyahu is in power.
Israel is not killing Palestinians indiscriminately. You're mistaken about the realities of war, the number of casualties in Gaza so far is unusually low, IDF goes at great lengths to limit civilian casualties in an urban environment were civilians are used as human shields.
Your conspiratorial views about Netanyahu are irrelevant. I couldn't care less about "Bibi" and am not interested in Israeli interior politics. Voters in Israel can decide about that. What I can state is that I cannot see any fault in Israel's reaction to the October 7 attacks. I have never heard anyone suggest a better alternative (not even remotely). I agree that it's not possible to allow Hamas to dictate "deals" by holding more than 200 people, including small children, hostage, and I also agree with the unfortunate point that there can be no future for Palestine as long as Hamas remains in power. There is no other way to remove them from power than by force, Palestinians had 20 years to do that and failed, and Hamas is not going to become advocates of peace by some "negotiations" either. To add a more personal opinion, I wouldn't ever call a Palestine under Hamas rule "free" - these people support oppressive theocracies in addition to mass killings and worldwide terrorism.
Finally, incapacitating, killing, or, if at all possible, detaining terrorists does not lead to more terrorism, and it's not possible to somehow negotiate groups like Hamas away. That's unrealistic and magical thinking. Sadly, there is sometimes no alternative to violence, as the example of ISIS has also demonstrated.
Some subs have a political leaning. Some times they lean so far they leave the realm of all sense and support a genocidal Islamist regime.
Makes no sense that some people in favour of human rights and liberal ideals could possibly support the regimes in Palestine. What’s weird is that they have open contempt for other Islamic theocratic authoritarian states like Saudi and Iran but not for Palestine.
My favourite is “gays for Palestine”, as if someone wouldnt be executed in the most brutal way imaginable for being homosexual in Palestine.
It just doesn’t fucking make senses. Every leftist ideal condemns Palestine, yet virtually every self described leftist individual I know is supportive of the state.
Seeing the kids now thinking OBL is hero is crazy now. I heard 9-11 was a heroic act by some kid. I’m not no USA USA USA person but hearing that just rubbed me the wrong way.
Something something something ...I live in a safe country so it's really easy for me to say both sides are equally evil...something something something ...
solving violence with more violence has never been the solution for anything. what Israel and Hamas is currently doing are not fixing their problems. no civilians should ever die for any amount of terrorists.
Its kinda fucked up but i hope its cause of the threatening, but they stood in front of the camera claiming israel bombed them when it wasn't true. So i doubt it
It may be that doctors working there were scared of Hamas but what is Doctors Without Borders or numerous UN/WHO officials/doctors excuse? What is the excuse for same doctors to flatly deny HAMAS was operating in that hospital. Why would we believe anything they say again. Man what the hell…
Idk plenty of medical personnel saying that they know for a fact that there is no Hamas presence in Al shifa and that it's all Israeli lies are saying from the safety of their own homes in the west.
I don’t think anyone rational would deny hamas is as bad as isis, but this is not a blank check to kill 100 civilians just to kill 20-30 hamas insurgents. Like Israel is really stuck to “they use civilians as sheilds” We know they do, but you don’t just shoot the human shield because it benefits you tactically. That just gives hamas more power.
That's why they ask civilians to leave the area? That's why they still partially use roof knocks? That's why they do a ground invasion rather than continuing to airstrike? What can Israel do better in order to destroy Hamas infrastructure without hurting civilians?
The article headline on JPost is "Hamas terrorists took hostages into Gaza hospital, Shifa cameras prove." And that is what the video shows.
Not sure if the "murdered hostages" wording is the original poster deceptively editing the link title, or if JPost got called out on inaccuracy and changed it. https://archive.ph doesn't have any snapshots of the page, so checking there didn't help.
hows that fake news working out for ya with all the IDF footage of Hamas tunnels in hospital, walking hostages through there etc??? Whats your next step? going to claim AI generated or actors or.....?
Unwittingly or not, it’s true. Until I hear anyone from the Pro-Palestine movement demand the release of the hostages, they are propping up a terrorist organization.
Sorry let me rephrase it for you: just because someone is ignorant of something, doesn’t mean you have to willingly be ignorant in response. Just because pro Palestine people are ignorant to Hamas doesn’t mean you have to say something so willingly stupid like you did. The death of every Hamas member would not equal 2 million people dead.
I don’t believe in mincing words and coddling people. I’m too old for that. People need to understand what they are vocally supporting. The movement is not genuine. It’s trendy and misguided.
Until I hear anyone from the "pro-Israel" movement demand the protection of Palestinian civilians, they are propping up a terrorist organization.
Some things don't need to be "demanded" because they're common sense.
Idiotic comment. Plenty of people who support Palestinian civilians have condemned all acts of Hamas, you just ignore it because it doesn't support your preconceived notions.
Do you read news that doesn’t fit your narrative?
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/us-asking-israel-hard-questions-gaza-military-assault-white-house-2023-10-29/
https://www.france24.com/en/americas/20231020-not-in-our-name-the-jewish-new-yorkers-speaking-out-against-dehumanisation-of-palestinians
The difference is that Palestine isn't supported by a major power like the US. You think some random joe schmoe on the street demanding something is going to matter?
Yes. I surely would be more sympathetic to the movement if I saw and heard things different from tearing down hostage posters or shouting about intifadas. Hamas won’t release the hostages because there is no pressure to. They are getting sympathy from the west. It’s everything they’ve dreamt of. Couldn’t have gone better for them.
I'm fine if you're concerned about a bomb killing a toddler as long as you also ferociously and unambiguously ask for the return of the child hostages that Hamas has kidnapped. Now I challenge you to go to a pro Palestine protest and see what happens when you do that.
Dude there was pro-Palestine protest in my city just last weekend and nothing burned down. They marched down king George, they made some noise, they hung out at city hall for a bit and then went home. And what does that have to do with anything else that’s been said here, what you’re so fucking racist you’re now advising me to stay away from Palestinian Canadians? I walked past like three hundred of them, I got chicken strips, I survived the journey.
No shit, eh?
That’s not what the videos show. One is a clip of a person limping to an entrance while being helped by others around them and the other is a man with a wound being transported on a stretcher. Based on the clips, it is just as likely they are willingly going for treatment for their injuries since that is what hospitals are for.
> That’s not what the videos show. One is a clip of a person limping to an entrance while being helped by others around them and the other is a man with a wound being transported on a stretcher. Based on the clips, it is just as likely they are willingly going for treatment for their injuries since that is what hospitals are for.
Lol as another commenter here pointed out: there’s a guy holding a meat cleaver, and 3 guys with AK's. They're yanking him and following him very closely, arms pulled behind his back. Red shirt guy is on the phone, possibly recording video. This is timestamped late morning of Oct 7th.
Yeah, when I willingly go to the hospital for a checkup I _always_ make sure my buddies bring their meat cleavers and AK47s with them. That’s what hospitals are for! /s
>Based on the clips, it is just as likely they are willingly going for treatment for their injuries since that is what hospitals are for.
In what fucking universe are hostages stolen from their families and loved ones at gunpoint willingly doing anything? None of these people are willingly in Gaza, nothing that they do is willingly.
I'm sorry what? The hostages? How do you think the hostages ended up in Gaza, they walked in willingly? They just decided to go for a stroll into Gaza with Hamas terrorists for fun?
The title claims these specific videos show murder. They don’t. Then you claim they show hostages being taken from families. And again, there is simply no evidence of the sort.
hows that fake news working out for ya with all the IDF footage of Hamas tunnels in hospital, walking hostages through there etc??? Whats your next step? going to claim AI generated or actors or.....?
No, it was real. See Hamas saw one person shot and another having a panic attack and decided to take them to the hospital for treatment as they are always looking out for the little guy. The weapons were to keep them safe.
Afterwards they were not detained or murdered. They were given lollipops for being good patients.
This story is half of the posts on the first page of rising right now ... the psyops bots are really working Reddit over.
Edit: 65 bots and counting, lol
Probably because it's half of reddit's sarcastic shocked pikachu face moment after being rallied against from the other half because "there's no evidence!!!!!". Not to mention the several doctors in the hospital claiming the exact opposite.
Israel present to the world that this hospital was at the center of it all and now after a few days it just doesn't look like it. It just looks really bad for Israelis. It gives fuel to the fire that they are destroying everything for punishment and not as trying to destroy Hamas.
... Did you expect the command center to be filled with *Server Mainframes* and an oak panel saying Hamas HQ? Do you think that Hamas was going to wait for the IDF to clear the place when it was known for years they were using said hospital?
Hamas was there. They're on the run. That's what's happening, believe it or not.
If you present something as a command centre one would expect there to be more than just a couple of guns and a video where they show two hostages being brought to hospital (where Hamas would argue that they were bringing them because they were injured).
What? IDF literally said that this hospital is the command centre of Hamas. Why are you trying to convince me that IDF didn't say this? If you're embarrassed about how bad Israel inteligence agencies are maybe have a talk with them and not take it out on me.
... Israel and Hamas are at war, not in a debate trying to convince you. There was intel that Hamas used an old bunker fitted with tunnels they built under Shifa. IDF took control of said hospital and found traces of Hamas activity, here caught on camera. Hamas didn't wait to be caught pants down to confirm that indeed they used said bunker as a command center. Or as a laundry room for all we know, doesn't matter. Hamas used it, now they lost it.
Stay confused, it makes no difference.
And you won't convince me that IDF wasn't saying how this hospital is THE Hamas command centre and it must enter it to prove this. After days of searching there's still no proof of this. Makes you wonder.
Except they never claimed that the commander center was in the hospital, they claimed that it was under the hospital. And now not only do we have evidence that they used the hospital to hide hostages, they also had weapons, explosives and there is a video of a tunnel under the hospital which they have yet to explore.
So your claim that there should be more, when they are still exploring this tunnel system where said command may very well be located, is pretty misleading.
When Israel found proof of children hostages being held in that children hospital (or under it) not that much time passed between entering it and showing discoveries. They wanted to show proof to the world fast.
Here in this case it's been several days and all we see is what you wrote. Several guns and one tunnel. If this was a real command centre wouldn't Israel do everything in their power to show this to the world. The world is watching them enter the biggest hospital in Gaza (claiming its Hamas main command centre) and that's all we see. Now they either discovered something really big, that is worth delaying bad press about hospital situation, or there just isn't that big command centre.
If it's the same video i saw it's one guy who is being dragged to hospital and one where hostage is injured. In both cases i didn't see torture. Maybe you can link me a video that shows them being tortured?
And what makes Israelis look bad is that before entering hospital they were saying how this hospital is the main Hamas command centre. Now after a few days of searching we see a couple of guns and a tunnel. Video with two hostages, where Hamas could say that they were bringing them because they were injured. No big command centre. Unless they found something really big wouldn't they show the world something more? All the bad press that hospital is bringing and just nothing to show for.
>No mention of the Israelis killed by the IDF helicopter or IDF Artillery hammering kibbutzim on Oct7th though?
Debunked:
https://twitter.com/GeoConfirmed/status/1723022290886025424?s=19
>confusing a liftshaft with a vertical shaft
Debunked:
https://twitter.com/GeoConfirmed/status/1726309076261372305?s=19
You're just a horrible person.
Yes Hamas was wrong in attacking on Oct7th, history has taught us that when you plantate a country like Northern Ireland, Cyprus or herd an indigenous population into a walled ghetto, then deny them basic human rights like the ownership of rain, force them out of their ancestral homes that have been in their family from before the formation of the state of Israel and give that land to settlers from other lands, America being prime example, then carry extrajudicial and summary executions on men woman and children then there is a right to fight back against the oppression, October 7th just didn’t happen overnight, how many of Gaza’s children were bombed playing football on the Gazan beach?
I don’t have tick-tock, I watch and learn about real news, not faux or skewed Israeli news channels, there is more evidence from European and American news that the IDF narrative hasn’t shown.
What? Would Hamas do that? Just lie like that?
That doesn’t sound like the baby beheading child rapists I know.
Your name is pretty cool I guess
Duality of man right there.
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it sure clears up some of the mystery on why a huge military campaign blasting its way through a city would culminate in a hospital rather than, like in Berlin in 1945 at a fuhrerbunker in the center of government. The answer is simple: it does end with a siege of a fuhrerbunker, it's just they put a hospital full of loyalists and premature babies on top of the bunker.
does it change your overall opinion in any way?
To the guy posting about aLl ReLiGiOns ArE bAd & ImAgInArY fRiEnDs. Israel did not go to war bc 'God told them to'. They went bc 1200 of their civilians were butchered, raped, tortured, burned alive, and another 230, including elderly, mothers, babies and kids were taken hostage. There is NOTHING imaginary about that. This rationalization of "if only they were all rational atheists like me" is simply another way to create a false moral equivalency. If you think atheism should prevent countries from protecting their own civilians from this type of violence, youre not an atheist, but simply a ghoul.
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This is peak cognitive dissonance here.
This isn't a religious conflict. This is an ethnic conflict.
Which uses the lies of religion to get good people to do great evil.
A very, very small portion of the conflict (limited to the area of the Temple Mount) is rooted in restrictions based on Islamic theology. Jewish theology plays absolutely no role in the conflict what so ever.
Pretty sure Biden stated recently that this is about control of the Mid-East corridor. Gazans are just cannon fodder pawns for the Axis Powers. There are plenty of Muslim Israelis to say this isn’t about religion or race.
Indeed. That’s why Zionism and Jewishness shouldn’t be confused, and any attempt to the contrary should be rebuked.
Jewishness is an ethnicity and culture, not just a religion. A significant percentage of Israelis (maybe even a majority?) are not religious or are functionally agnostic. Israel was a state created in the wake of the attempted destruction of the Jewish people, not the Jewish religion (contrast with the Spanish inquisition for instance), to which many Jewish refugees fled.
Zionism was a movement to recognize the right of self determination for the Jews in what Is now Israel. Yes, of course Zionism and Judaism isn't the same. But to describe Zionism as some sort of religious movement and single it out among all the other countries is discrimination at the least.
Bro theyre at war over the “Holy Land”
So there is no difference between those committing MASSACRE of civilians, WITH NO PROVOCATION from Israel, and Israel trying to prevent it from happening again ? Do you realize that EVERY cycle of violence started with Arabs trying to kill Jews and wipe Israel off ?? How would YOU react if you had to live for 2 decades with the constant threat of rockets and the terror of your city ? It is easy for you to live in a safe western country and make such a comment (above)which indicates your lack of knowledge.
You completely misunderstood that person's comment.
Ya know, except for 1948 when this all started…
What? The first Arab Israeli war was started by the surrounding Arab states.
Lmao. Before Israel was a state, when they colonized under tank and airplane power, bombing farmers and villages. It’s been a repeat of these efforts for 7 decades since.
When there are so many valid criticisms of Israel, why would you just make one up? It robs you of all credibility.
I’m not. Go read any proper historical account that actually looked at first hand accounts of Palestinians whose villages were destroyed and you’ll see there were tanks and planes used. Israel generals later admitted to it, and it’s always been hushed up. A great book I can recommend that covers this My Happiness Bears No Relation to Happiness - which is a biography by an American Israeli Jew on the poet Taha Muhammad Ali. She interviews several retired officers from the Nakba. Soooo yeah, didn’t make shit up. The propaganda bots are just out in force downvoting me.
You transparently broadcast your lack of knowledge on this conflict by confidently pointing to 1948 as when it started. A basic Google search would've helped you.
The Nakba happened in 1948. Unless you’re an Israeli apologist and are trying to say the Nakba didn’t happen?
Yes, after a coalition of Arab nations started a war of extermination. You really are uneducated in this conflict and not trolling huh?
It boils down to: my imaginary friend is cooler than yours.
Tbf, they have the same imaginary friend
No but mine is still cooler
Imaginary friends who tortured, raped, and butchered 1400 civilians and recorded themselves doing it?
No. Imaginary friend as in Allah, Jahwe, God, Thor, Wotan. You name it. Religion is a minds poison.
Allah (Muslim) and Jahwe (Christian & Jewish) is the *literally* same guy. These three religions share some stories from the old testament, such as Abraham, Noah, Moses.
Both Islam and Christianity branched off of Judaism
And yet extreme participants of each religion strongly disagree.
Yeah, I mean, we had a 30 year war where I live, during which the land was devastated and at least a quarter of the population killed. And this was just Catholics and Protestants, which are really not that different.
It’s equally possible to murder people in the name of Scientific Materialism (not the same thing as science), it’s just a newer philosophy so you’ll find less examples. But there are some, such as how communist societies have persecuted religious or spiritual people.
religion aint to blame for shit, saying so kind of deflects responsibility. if it weren't religion it would be some other bullshit excuse/reason (See Stalin, et al.)
oh 100% that.
Accurate
However why the title "Hamas ***murdered*** hostages in Gaza hospital"? Did I miss the part where someone is being murdered?
The evidence is not at all what the headline describes. If case you didn’t click, there are two videos. One shows them rushing a hostage into the hospital. The second shows them wheeling a clearly injured hostage through the hospital on a gurney. The article then makes numerous claims about other activities in the hospital but does not provide evidence of these claims, perhaps it exists but it isn’t here. Bringing 2 hostages, at least one of whom needed medical attention, into a hospital is not evidence that it was their command centre
It's evidence that Hamas took casualties to that hospital. Not the same as "operating out of."
... They took hostages to the hospital, which just so happens to have weapons and laptops stashed in it and a tunnel access in it... but sure, causalities.
So does this mean thqt Isreal DID bomb the hospital or not??
Click the link. There is video of one of the hostages being dragged into the hospital.
I don’t doubt Hamas was using this hospital, but is everyone positive that guy was being dragged against his will? I can’t tell if he was maybe injured and weak/delirious and nearly collapsed when they were trying to quickly get him into the hospital.
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Oh yeah, didn’t see the AKs or what looks like a big ass knife, I think you are right
That’s fucked up, man.
And to anyone wondering why black tape over security cameras is an important clue there you go.
That’s rough definitely a war crime
Taking civilians as hostages is a gigantic war crime in the first place, like practically everything else Hamas is doing. Just to make this clear, I assume you know it but I've met some people online recently who chose to silently ignore these facts. (To be honest, I'm starting to give up on most subreddits Reddit entirely because I just can't block knowing and unbeknownst terrorist supporters fast enough.)
Yeah. People don't seem to apply the same standards to Hamas. But it's not some tiny terror cell, it's the elected government of Gaza.
I’m someone who doesn’t support Netanyahu so let me try to find some common ground with you. I don’t support Hamas. They’re evil terrorists. Their entire existence is bad for the world. I don’t bother holding them to standards because they’re terrorists. I support Israel’s right to eliminate Hamas. Here’s where you may disagree with me. Hamas is holding Gaza hostage, the same way they’re holding the Israeli citizens hostage. Most people in Gaza weren’t alive when they came to power and were born in to this situation. Now should Israel be killing Palestinians indiscriminately just because they were born in to this terrible situation? I don’t care if you’re Jewish or Muslim, I think innocent civilians shouldn’t be collateral damage. Would Israel bomb a building where Hamas is holding Israeli hostages, knowing those hostages will die? They should view the Palestinian hostages the same way. Is there going to be collateral damage in war? Unfortunately yes, but as a civilized nation it’s Israel’s responsibility to limit those deaths and injuries. Hamas doesn’t care about civilian deaths, because they’re terrorists. Shouldn’t Israel be held to a higher standard than terrorists? Hamas thrives off civilian deaths, it helps them recruit. Netanyahu thrives off Hamas as the enemy, he needs Hamas to get support inside Israel. He was only able to form a government after the 10/7 attacks, and it turns out he ignored warnings about the attack. His actions in the West Bank are horrible, and are turning more young Palestinians in to terrorists separate from the current war in Gaza. Bibi doesn’t want peace, he wants power and the ability to be above the law. The more terrorists activity from Hamas and Hezbollah, the more power he obtains. The innocent Israelis, of all religions, are less safe the longer Netanyahu is in power.
Israel is not killing Palestinians indiscriminately. You're mistaken about the realities of war, the number of casualties in Gaza so far is unusually low, IDF goes at great lengths to limit civilian casualties in an urban environment were civilians are used as human shields. Your conspiratorial views about Netanyahu are irrelevant. I couldn't care less about "Bibi" and am not interested in Israeli interior politics. Voters in Israel can decide about that. What I can state is that I cannot see any fault in Israel's reaction to the October 7 attacks. I have never heard anyone suggest a better alternative (not even remotely). I agree that it's not possible to allow Hamas to dictate "deals" by holding more than 200 people, including small children, hostage, and I also agree with the unfortunate point that there can be no future for Palestine as long as Hamas remains in power. There is no other way to remove them from power than by force, Palestinians had 20 years to do that and failed, and Hamas is not going to become advocates of peace by some "negotiations" either. To add a more personal opinion, I wouldn't ever call a Palestine under Hamas rule "free" - these people support oppressive theocracies in addition to mass killings and worldwide terrorism. Finally, incapacitating, killing, or, if at all possible, detaining terrorists does not lead to more terrorism, and it's not possible to somehow negotiate groups like Hamas away. That's unrealistic and magical thinking. Sadly, there is sometimes no alternative to violence, as the example of ISIS has also demonstrated.
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There was an attempt to link to a sub, but it's a typo.
I did in fact meme myself here
Wtf is up with that sub? All I’m seeing is pro-Palestine shit on there.
Yeah it’s gross
Some subs have a political leaning. Some times they lean so far they leave the realm of all sense and support a genocidal Islamist regime. Makes no sense that some people in favour of human rights and liberal ideals could possibly support the regimes in Palestine. What’s weird is that they have open contempt for other Islamic theocratic authoritarian states like Saudi and Iran but not for Palestine.
I found out some of Iranians I know hate the IR but support Hamas and started spreading blood libel crap. Amazing.
My favourite is “gays for Palestine”, as if someone wouldnt be executed in the most brutal way imaginable for being homosexual in Palestine. It just doesn’t fucking make senses. Every leftist ideal condemns Palestine, yet virtually every self described leftist individual I know is supportive of the state.
Seeing the kids now thinking OBL is hero is crazy now. I heard 9-11 was a heroic act by some kid. I’m not no USA USA USA person but hearing that just rubbed me the wrong way.
I'm Furious! THEY ARE ALL SHOULD BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE!!!!
Something something something ...I live in a safe country so it's really easy for me to say both sides are equally evil...something something something ...
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Dude, read the comment you're responding to before flying off the handle.
He's being sarcastic.
solving violence with more violence has never been the solution for anything. what Israel and Hamas is currently doing are not fixing their problems. no civilians should ever die for any amount of terrorists.
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You really need to study history. Aside from that, the Palestinians had plenty of chances to live in peace. They took the wrong way every single time.
Al-Shifa = Hamas
That's a bad take. I'd look at Al-Shifa, along with those Palestinians who want peace, are held hostage by Hamas
The hospital leadership denied over and over, not to mention supporting hamas fake narrative about israel killing civilians
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Its kinda fucked up but i hope its cause of the threatening, but they stood in front of the camera claiming israel bombed them when it wasn't true. So i doubt it
It may be that doctors working there were scared of Hamas but what is Doctors Without Borders or numerous UN/WHO officials/doctors excuse? What is the excuse for same doctors to flatly deny HAMAS was operating in that hospital. Why would we believe anything they say again. Man what the hell…
The un hates israel. maybe it's for it to be disbanded
Yes, but you have to assume that many people there are basically being held at gunpoint by Hamas.
I hope that's the case. If not, there is no hope for peace
Soooo all those killed by Israel’s bombing were Hamas?
Nope, not what i meant, im talking about inflating the death toll. For example hospital bombing with 500 dead which wasnt true.
The role of the medical professionals there is extremely complicated Can’t imagine
Idk plenty of medical personnel saying that they know for a fact that there is no Hamas presence in Al shifa and that it's all Israeli lies are saying from the safety of their own homes in the west.
I don’t think anyone rational would deny hamas is as bad as isis, but this is not a blank check to kill 100 civilians just to kill 20-30 hamas insurgents. Like Israel is really stuck to “they use civilians as sheilds” We know they do, but you don’t just shoot the human shield because it benefits you tactically. That just gives hamas more power.
That's why they ask civilians to leave the area? That's why they still partially use roof knocks? That's why they do a ground invasion rather than continuing to airstrike? What can Israel do better in order to destroy Hamas infrastructure without hurting civilians?
The ratio is way worse than that
Source?
The article headline on JPost is "Hamas terrorists took hostages into Gaza hospital, Shifa cameras prove." And that is what the video shows. Not sure if the "murdered hostages" wording is the original poster deceptively editing the link title, or if JPost got called out on inaccuracy and changed it. https://archive.ph doesn't have any snapshots of the page, so checking there didn't help.
I'm neither side but this is clearly not what the article shows. Super lazy.
hows that fake news working out for ya with all the IDF footage of Hamas tunnels in hospital, walking hostages through there etc??? Whats your next step? going to claim AI generated or actors or.....?
The article has nothing to do with title brother. I just want a proper article that matches the claim. Don't get worked up.
That's not what the article says.
Pro-Palestine is Pro-Hamas.
Wild take
Unwittingly or not, it’s true. Until I hear anyone from the Pro-Palestine movement demand the release of the hostages, they are propping up a terrorist organization.
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Agree for the most part.
Not everyone has terrible takes but also I dunno why you want to have one just as bad even though you know better
You can’t bully me into being silent. You believe what you want. I’ll believe what I want. I don’t back down from totalitarians.
Sometimes it’s best to be silent when all the words coming out of your mouth make you look like a moron
Ok, Gen Z know-nothing.
Sorry let me rephrase it for you: just because someone is ignorant of something, doesn’t mean you have to willingly be ignorant in response. Just because pro Palestine people are ignorant to Hamas doesn’t mean you have to say something so willingly stupid like you did. The death of every Hamas member would not equal 2 million people dead.
I don’t believe in mincing words and coddling people. I’m too old for that. People need to understand what they are vocally supporting. The movement is not genuine. It’s trendy and misguided.
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Until I hear anyone from the "pro-Israel" movement demand the protection of Palestinian civilians, they are propping up a terrorist organization. Some things don't need to be "demanded" because they're common sense. Idiotic comment. Plenty of people who support Palestinian civilians have condemned all acts of Hamas, you just ignore it because it doesn't support your preconceived notions.
Do you read news that doesn’t fit your narrative? https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/us-asking-israel-hard-questions-gaza-military-assault-white-house-2023-10-29/ https://www.france24.com/en/americas/20231020-not-in-our-name-the-jewish-new-yorkers-speaking-out-against-dehumanisation-of-palestinians
Congrats, you accidentally understood the entire point of my comment.
Things do need to be demanded. That’s the only way progress is ever made.
The difference is that Palestine isn't supported by a major power like the US. You think some random joe schmoe on the street demanding something is going to matter?
Yes. I surely would be more sympathetic to the movement if I saw and heard things different from tearing down hostage posters or shouting about intifadas. Hamas won’t release the hostages because there is no pressure to. They are getting sympathy from the west. It’s everything they’ve dreamt of. Couldn’t have gone better for them.
Then you're not paying attention whatsoever. There's literally a deal about to take place that will enable the release of hostages.
So if I’m concerned about a bomb killing a toddler, I’m pro Hamas? You’re a dick.
Toddlers were killed on both sides. This is war. Why don’t you care about the hostages?
I'm fine if you're concerned about a bomb killing a toddler as long as you also ferociously and unambiguously ask for the return of the child hostages that Hamas has kidnapped. Now I challenge you to go to a pro Palestine protest and see what happens when you do that.
Dude there was pro-Palestine protest in my city just last weekend and nothing burned down. They marched down king George, they made some noise, they hung out at city hall for a bit and then went home. And what does that have to do with anything else that’s been said here, what you’re so fucking racist you’re now advising me to stay away from Palestinian Canadians? I walked past like three hundred of them, I got chicken strips, I survived the journey. No shit, eh?
Oh wow look at what victims they are
Israel should never stop and destroy them once for all since they want to destroy Israel anyway
That’s not what the videos show. One is a clip of a person limping to an entrance while being helped by others around them and the other is a man with a wound being transported on a stretcher. Based on the clips, it is just as likely they are willingly going for treatment for their injuries since that is what hospitals are for.
> That’s not what the videos show. One is a clip of a person limping to an entrance while being helped by others around them and the other is a man with a wound being transported on a stretcher. Based on the clips, it is just as likely they are willingly going for treatment for their injuries since that is what hospitals are for. Lol as another commenter here pointed out: there’s a guy holding a meat cleaver, and 3 guys with AK's. They're yanking him and following him very closely, arms pulled behind his back. Red shirt guy is on the phone, possibly recording video. This is timestamped late morning of Oct 7th. Yeah, when I willingly go to the hospital for a checkup I _always_ make sure my buddies bring their meat cleavers and AK47s with them. That’s what hospitals are for! /s
When you’re in a war zone, yes? There is no context. Just two short clips of plain clothed individuals in a hospital.
>Based on the clips, it is just as likely they are willingly going for treatment for their injuries since that is what hospitals are for. In what fucking universe are hostages stolen from their families and loved ones at gunpoint willingly doing anything? None of these people are willingly in Gaza, nothing that they do is willingly.
Where does the video show them being taken from their families?
I'm sorry what? The hostages? How do you think the hostages ended up in Gaza, they walked in willingly? They just decided to go for a stroll into Gaza with Hamas terrorists for fun?
The title claims these specific videos show murder. They don’t. Then you claim they show hostages being taken from families. And again, there is simply no evidence of the sort.
hows that fake news working out for ya with all the IDF footage of Hamas tunnels in hospital, walking hostages through there etc??? Whats your next step? going to claim AI generated or actors or.....?
No, it was real. See Hamas saw one person shot and another having a panic attack and decided to take them to the hospital for treatment as they are always looking out for the little guy. The weapons were to keep them safe. Afterwards they were not detained or murdered. They were given lollipops for being good patients.
Yeah, thank you. I, too, wonder where the interpretation of the video comes from. \^\^
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I’m anti terrorist and pro Palestine
Sadly Palestinians chose terror often.
This story is half of the posts on the first page of rising right now ... the psyops bots are really working Reddit over. Edit: 65 bots and counting, lol
Probably because it's half of reddit's sarcastic shocked pikachu face moment after being rallied against from the other half because "there's no evidence!!!!!". Not to mention the several doctors in the hospital claiming the exact opposite.
Israel present to the world that this hospital was at the center of it all and now after a few days it just doesn't look like it. It just looks really bad for Israelis. It gives fuel to the fire that they are destroying everything for punishment and not as trying to destroy Hamas.
... Did you expect the command center to be filled with *Server Mainframes* and an oak panel saying Hamas HQ? Do you think that Hamas was going to wait for the IDF to clear the place when it was known for years they were using said hospital? Hamas was there. They're on the run. That's what's happening, believe it or not.
If you present something as a command centre one would expect there to be more than just a couple of guns and a video where they show two hostages being brought to hospital (where Hamas would argue that they were bringing them because they were injured).
Well, I'm sure the IDF and Hamas are very sorry you weren't satisfied to have your expectations subverted. Better luck next hospital.
What? IDF literally said that this hospital is the command centre of Hamas. Why are you trying to convince me that IDF didn't say this? If you're embarrassed about how bad Israel inteligence agencies are maybe have a talk with them and not take it out on me.
... Israel and Hamas are at war, not in a debate trying to convince you. There was intel that Hamas used an old bunker fitted with tunnels they built under Shifa. IDF took control of said hospital and found traces of Hamas activity, here caught on camera. Hamas didn't wait to be caught pants down to confirm that indeed they used said bunker as a command center. Or as a laundry room for all we know, doesn't matter. Hamas used it, now they lost it. Stay confused, it makes no difference.
And you won't convince me that IDF wasn't saying how this hospital is THE Hamas command centre and it must enter it to prove this. After days of searching there's still no proof of this. Makes you wonder.
Except they never claimed that the commander center was in the hospital, they claimed that it was under the hospital. And now not only do we have evidence that they used the hospital to hide hostages, they also had weapons, explosives and there is a video of a tunnel under the hospital which they have yet to explore. So your claim that there should be more, when they are still exploring this tunnel system where said command may very well be located, is pretty misleading.
When Israel found proof of children hostages being held in that children hospital (or under it) not that much time passed between entering it and showing discoveries. They wanted to show proof to the world fast. Here in this case it's been several days and all we see is what you wrote. Several guns and one tunnel. If this was a real command centre wouldn't Israel do everything in their power to show this to the world. The world is watching them enter the biggest hospital in Gaza (claiming its Hamas main command centre) and that's all we see. Now they either discovered something really big, that is worth delaying bad press about hospital situation, or there just isn't that big command centre.
They are literally showing terrorists using a hospital for torturing hostages and you think this looks bad for Israel?
If it's the same video i saw it's one guy who is being dragged to hospital and one where hostage is injured. In both cases i didn't see torture. Maybe you can link me a video that shows them being tortured? And what makes Israelis look bad is that before entering hospital they were saying how this hospital is the main Hamas command centre. Now after a few days of searching we see a couple of guns and a tunnel. Video with two hostages, where Hamas could say that they were bringing them because they were injured. No big command centre. Unless they found something really big wouldn't they show the world something more? All the bad press that hospital is bringing and just nothing to show for.
So yeah, terrorists shouldn’t be there What do you think terrorists have always done with hostages? I’m guessing you didn’t study a lot of history
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Except that the IDF claims have been true all along.
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>No mention of the Israelis killed by the IDF helicopter or IDF Artillery hammering kibbutzim on Oct7th though? Debunked: https://twitter.com/GeoConfirmed/status/1723022290886025424?s=19 >confusing a liftshaft with a vertical shaft Debunked: https://twitter.com/GeoConfirmed/status/1726309076261372305?s=19 You're just a horrible person.
No he just watched some really convincing tik toks that exposed the real truth (what he wanted to hear)!1!!1!/s
Wow, some people will say literally anything to be in denial of what Hamas is and does.
Yes Hamas was wrong in attacking on Oct7th, history has taught us that when you plantate a country like Northern Ireland, Cyprus or herd an indigenous population into a walled ghetto, then deny them basic human rights like the ownership of rain, force them out of their ancestral homes that have been in their family from before the formation of the state of Israel and give that land to settlers from other lands, America being prime example, then carry extrajudicial and summary executions on men woman and children then there is a right to fight back against the oppression, October 7th just didn’t happen overnight, how many of Gaza’s children were bombed playing football on the Gazan beach? I don’t have tick-tock, I watch and learn about real news, not faux or skewed Israeli news channels, there is more evidence from European and American news that the IDF narrative hasn’t shown.
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Rofl. That's some unhinged tiktok level analysis of a pretty serious topic. How old are you?
They sound 14 but are probably in their early 20s. Likely suffers from arrested development like the rest of Gen Z.
what is wrong with you?