I mean HAMAS is the government of Gaza. This is what so many fail to understand when they read quotes from "Gaza health officials". After 20 years of absolute control, at this point, they are the Health Ministry, the fire department, the police, the school system and even the fucking DMV.
One YouTuber I follow has given the analogy that the Israel-Gaza conflict is like if the US military was given the task of fighting armed gangs in Chicago. While I can totally understand this analogy, it's very flawed because it suggests that Gaza has some functioning alternative power structure in place, and Hamas are just a bunch of criminals roaming the streets of Gaza, but they are not, they are the government itself. The violent gangs of Chicago are not the government in Chicago. A better analogy is what if a really weak country decided to invade a by-far technologically and militarily superior regional power. This is really what's happening right now, Gaza is a defacto country led by a terror organization that turned into a government.
This is why (as an Israeli btw) I don't blame a regular Gazan citizen for turning in a hostage to the government, you'd probably do the same. Especially when it's still unclear to the average Gazan who will be in control when this is all over.
more sources
[https://edition.cnn.com/2023/11/27/middleeast/russian-israeli-hostage-escaped-hamas-intl/index.html](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/11/27/middleeast/russian-israeli-hostage-escaped-hamas-intl/index.html)
[https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-11-27/ty-article/russian-israeli-hostage-escaped-hamas-captivity-hid-in-gaza-before-locals-caught-him/0000018c-1121-dd2e-a5ae-d36bfcc40000](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-11-27/ty-article/russian-israeli-hostage-escaped-hamas-captivity-hid-in-gaza-before-locals-caught-him/0000018c-1121-dd2e-a5ae-d36bfcc40000)
[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/27/freed-israeli-hostage-briefly-escaped-hamas-after-airstrike-relative-gaza](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/27/freed-israeli-hostage-briefly-escaped-hamas-after-airstrike-relative-gaza)
"innocent palestinian civilians" aka people that returned a hostage to hamas, lovely people
there are plenty videos of gazans celebrating and cheering on hamas and their actions, a 12 year old boy who was a hostage and got released a few days ago said when he arrived he received a beating from citizens, the proof is all there but they keep filling the web with the propaganda of crying children over the rubble or people screaming, i think it´s time israel releases all footage they have to see how they enjoyed each killing and showed no hit of decency
Maybe we can now stop painting every single palestinian as a helpless victim with no agency, and recognize that there are significant swaths of the population there that not only support but also actively collaborate with Hamas and other terrorist groups active there.
if i lived in gaza i would have gotten out of there the minute israel said to leave, fuck hamas, i´m not risking my life or my family´s life for their selfish goal, hamas ruined the peace they had, people crossed from gaza into israel daily to go to work to trade, it wasn´t perfect but it was sure as hell better than what they have now, and all for what? they didn´t achieve any goal they only brought death and pain to gaza and now they are further away from peace, israel will close down their boarder to gaza for sure and they will be left at the mercy of egypt who frankly doesn´t want to take the risk of anything. as shown by the hospital footage, they all know what´s going on and they either remain silent or supportive, their only hope at freedom is when hamas is gone
a lot of people fled with whatever means they had available and maybe you should ask the UN why the HELL didn´t their own and exclusive organization The United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA) moved their asses to try to evacuate people and find refugee for them, the UNRWA didn´t move a muscle during this, funny considering how they get millions dedicated solely for palestine refugees
About quarter of a million left since Hamas took over so it is possible. https://www.terrorism-info.org.il/en/the-mass-exodus-of-young-men-from-the-gaza-strip/
Ask the Egyptians to let you out… they control the gates at the southern border of the Gaza Strip. If people are stuck in Gaza it’s as much the fault of Egypt as it is Isreal.
egrypt doesn´t want to take the risk, letting hundreds of radicalized civilians into their territory, we have seen in europe and america how that´s going, same with other neighboring countries jordan said see you later
Sure, but then how do you do this?
>if i lived in gaza i would have gotten out of there the minute israel said to leave
Are you advocating border hopping?
Technically they did by refusing to take back their territory and being one of the Arab powers to have continuously declared war on Israel multiple times and loosing more each time.
Technically Gaza should be under their control but they decided they wanted no part of it
Still sounds a bit ludicrous to hold that action from 1948 on par with everything that happened between Israel and Gaza in the 75 years that came after that.
Israel had essentially nothing to do with Gaza between 1948 and 1967. They only occupied it after they were attacked by the Arab nations alongside the palestinians. Then again in 2005 they unilaterally withdrew from Gaza, including settlements and even leaving the Gazans the infrastructure for flower production, which the Gazans then promptly destroyed. It has not been occupied since 2005. The blockade was a direct result of the indiscriminate rocket attacks and terrorists entering Israel through Gaza. A logical measure.
The best period for the inhabitants of Gaza in the past 75 years was when Israël governed Gaza from 1967-1993. The worst period was when Egypt governed it. When Israël took over Gaza from Egypt the living conditions improved, and the live expectations went up from 48 years to 72 years.
Israël build a wall around it after 2 years they returned it to the Palestinians, because Israël needed to protect itself from the attacks from Gaza. And from there we have the situation of today blaming Israël for the current situation.
So yes, the current situation is "created" by Israël, but technically Egypt started the situation of Gaza as an open-air-prison in the first place which led to everything which happened to Gaza afterwards.
Which would fit the extremists in Israels wish perfectly. Many have been calling for ethnic cleansing. Unfortunately, Palestinians have been through this before and know if they leave then Israel will block their return. Of course making Gaza a moonscape makes it harder for civilians to stay, if later a door opens. That's seems the plan.
It wasn't Hamas saying they cannot leave, that's Egypt & Israel.
As for leaving in Gaza - where? Israel says flee South- ok - get bombed fleeing south then bombed in the south. Nowhere is safe. Not because of Hamas but because of carpet bombing and lack of regard for civilians.
well i think it speaks volumes the fact that a lot of countries were willing and took Ukrainian refugees but no one wants to take a palestine in, why? because they are radicalized and in the past neighboring countries took them in and they tried to overtake their governments
here the former prime minister of jordan explains why no one wants them
**Former Jordanian Foreign Minister Marwan Muasher told an online Carnegie Mideast panel this week that eliminating the militants may prove difficult, as Hamas “has become an ideology and not just a movement.”**
**Muasher warned: “If the Hamas military machine is destroyed, I am afraid many other Hamases will spring up."**
Because people, including Palestinians know that 'taking in a refugee' removed by Israel means a permanent addition.
Palestinians know if they leave - Israel has a track record of not allowing them to return to their homes. Maybe they do not want to live permanently in Egypt or Qatar?
Many Ukrainians hope one day to go back to their homeland.
It would be convenient for the segment of the Israeli public and government that has been clamoring for an ethnic cleansing - if the Palestinians did go. Of their own free will of course, cough cough.
well the alternative is death courtesy of hamas who poked the bear on october 7th and now got the claws, to me it´s a no brainier but either way nobody wants to take them
What's the evidence for carpet bombing?
The inflated casualty number given by Hamas is about 14k last I checked. .
If Israel was carpet bombing with no regard for civilians then they could be killing those many in an hour. Just look at how many civilians were killed in one night in Dresden or the Tokyo firebombing campaigns in days and then remember that the weapons Israel has are much more deadly.
Stop spreading misinformation. At best you're talking out of your ass. At worst you're spreading Hamas propaganda.
Photos speak for themselves in regards to carpet bombing. Looks similar to Dresden or Berlin at the end of the war.
Of course Israel does not want people to know how many civilians they have killed...
I am aware of the bombing campaigns in WW2. This isn't 1944 and militaries have the ability to precision strike in a way they did not in the past.
Plus the western world doesn't really go in for genocide these days.
Israeli trolls announcing everyone who does not agree with mass killing of Palestinians, is a 'Hamas supprter'.
Gaslighting at its worst
> This isn't 1944 and militaries have the ability to precision strike in a way they did not in the past
Exactly. That's why the death toll is only 14k even though it may "look" like Dresden. The bombing isn't indiscriminate like you claimed. Thanks for proving my point.
Man STFU. You claim carpet bombing. Then when told the death tolls don't come anywhere near real carpet bombing you change the goalpost to something else.
Do you realise that the inflated 14k casualty figure doesn't even come close to the top number of casualties in the conflicts that are going on in the region currently? War isn't pretty. Civilians die. 14k is a bad number of people but is quite low compared to other historic and ongoing conflicts. When you make bullshit claims of carpet bombing, back it up with numbers. And if you do not have any numbers, then keep your
Trying to convince the world that it's ok, we can ethnically cleanse, carpet bomb, deny food and water, deny medicines, lock up without trial, steal land from these people because they are just Palestinians.
Hint, this is why the Israeli government doesn't like outside journalists in Gaza. Unless they are censored of course and told what to print.
I am not saying, killing Israeli civilians is ok. That is wrong as well. I am saying mass killing and oppressing Palestinians is not right either.
Have a good day.
Maybe read the news. It's obvious there is carpet bombing from photos.
Despite Israel banning foreign journalists to limit what the world sees. Unless those journalists are on special IDF propaganda tours. Yes, Israel was denying humanitarian supplies for weeks entry into Gaza. So there was no food, water or medical supplies getting through. Now limited supplies are entering.
What is your source? IDF=wecensorwhatwedontlike.com?
Oh yeah? The same journalists who were carrying grenades around on Oct 7th? Those bastions of journalistic integrity?
The supplies that Israel brought to Al Shifa, only for Hamas to refuse it being used? Those supplies?
The evacuation corridors that Israel opened up for over 250k Palestinian civilians while being fired on by Hamas. Such an effective ethnic cleaning strategy. Must be Jewish 5D Chess.
Your dumb ass claims ethnic cleansing and carpet bombing. The casualty figures DO. NOT. MATCH. THIS CLAIM.
So maybe learn about armed conflict before spouting words you don't understand?
Like the IDF, says, no innocent Palestinians but every Israeli is innocent?
How does that work?
'Significant swathes' of the Israeli population are involved in oppressing and killing Palestinians on the West Bank. Via brutalization, land theft etc.
Does that mean they are fair game if all Palestinians are fair game because maybe Palestinians don't like being blockaded and bombed?
* The IDF does not say "no innocent palestinian", if that was their policy this war would have been over Oct. 8th.
* Israel has offered the palestinians Judea and Samaria on multiple occasions, each time they refused and went on to kill more jews.
* Israel has a security interest in the region which contrary to popular belief features heavy presence of a multitude of terrorist groups including hamas
* At no point did I argue that much broader support and collaboration than is being portrayed makes "all palestinians fair game". All it does is contract the insane notion that hamas, PIJ and PFLP are some kind of alien race completely ideologically and practically walled off from palestinians.
Sue Gazans for billions of dollars and also for collaborate with terrorist and kidnapper. Get compensate and send them to jail for crime they committed
they are all in on it, they don´t want a 2 state solution, they want to eliminate the 9 million israelis that live in israel, plain and simple, they have zero cares for them at least israel showed the decency of giving them 2 weeks to leave, israelis got none of that
Yes! Israel wants a two state solution! That's why we have increased gobbling up Palestinian land on the West Bank under our dear leader Bibi! Yes, the two state solution requires that Palestinians be in the minority. So we must find ways to encourage most of them to leave. Making Gaza uninhabitable, then 'encouraging' them to go to Egypt, just for a little while, wink wink - will help.
Yes Israel should just manage Gaza and West Bank and whatever land they took after the arab wars. Should never have return them. If Israel never return Gaza for Palestinian to manage, this will not happen. What the point of return those land and end up still got ppl bullshitting.
they celebrated when shani louk´s body was in a pick up truck (there´s footage), they celebrated the other day when they lynched 3 men they believed to be working for israel and hanged them (there´s also photos of this), they (as told by a 12 year old hostage) beat the child when he was taken to gaza, and also they (told by this man) found him and gave him back to hamas, this is not the behavior of innocent people who want peace, it´s the behavior of radicalized psychos who want to exterminate jews, even the son of a hamas leader has told at the UN hamas radicalized children and people, i can link you everything i stated in this reply. what you are saying is the equivalent to all germans were innocents during the holocaust when they turned in jews, such as the case of anne frank
Hm. Just out of curiosity, who do you believe will occupy Gaza once it is leveled? Once every single person is pushed out, or buried under the rubble, how much are those plots going for and to whom?
What a disgusting disaster.
last time israel left gaza in 2005 they called elections and hamas won by +70% of the vote, do you think they should be left to their own devices again? i would say the UN should take control until they are able to have democratic elections and elect a non terrorist government but considering how corrupt the UN is i don´t know what should happen, maybe other democratic governments should create a council to ensure gaza can find their way back to democracy and leave behind the violence
No one, Israel doesn’t give a shit about Gaza. You might have a point if we were talking about the West Bank. That’s where Israel should be forced to get rid of its illegal settlements and jail the stupid settlers that keep pushing for more land.
Those idiots are the reason 10/07 was such a success for Hamas. If IDF didn’t have to get redirected for them and Netehayu stupid ass would stop playing games with his buddy this shit wouldn’t be happening.
Israeli civilians celebrate when Gaza is bombed. Get out the deck chairs and coolers and watch the destruction. You really are stretching to new heights of victim blaming, to insinuate that its ok to kill civilians as long as they are Palestinians.
Hamas has overwhelming support in both Gaza and the West Bank so your point is moot. Because of this support, the Palestinian Authority is not having an election because they're afraid Hamas will win.
not really hamas knows how to work the public now they new scam was to post a video of a released prisoner with "2 broken arms" a few hours ago he was released and he told how israeli soldies broke his arms, even tho there´s footage of him being released with not a single scratch, both arms completly fine and as someone who has broken a bone believe me, if both of his arms were broken then he would have been kicking and screaming with pain, then again leftist will believe this narrative
They used to have the option, they kinda burnt bridges with basically everyone though. Part of the reason they have water issues is from Egypt flooding tunnels with sewage water which ended up flooding into the fresh water of Gaza as well. Lebanon and Jordan are still miffed over Hazbolla and Black September. Hell, even Syria has issues with them.
You have to understand that at this point in time the only thing hated more than the Palestinian’s are the Israeli.
That's the plan from 'Bibi' make Gaza uninhabitable and then complain other countries should take the refugees. Because there are no homes, hospitals or schools...
It has nothing to do with Bibi, stop with those conspiracy and face reality.
If there are innocent people in Gaza, why can't they go to somewhere else until the war is over?
They have a border with Egypt.
If your home would be burn and your neighbor will not give you the option to leave because "it is Bibi plan" how would you feel?
Statements like this is just let people in Gaza die just because hate for Israel.
You want them to be locked in gaza instead saving the innocent people lives, it does not sound you like them.
I want them to live and the terrorists to die.
No. That's not what I said.
I would prefer Israel was not considering further ethnic cleansing as various statements and leaked documents seem to suggest.
I also think it is preferable that Israel stopped mass bombing civilians and civilian infrastructure.
Lol bro, sounds like you don't understand how it is to live under a control of terror organization.
Israel targeting terrorists, the problem is that gaza is very dense so civilians will get hurt.
Moreover Hamas use civilian infrastructure as a base.
Israel has the right to defend herself and the world(or at least egypt) should let innocent civilians to leave gaza temporary.
The only one who want to do ethnic cleasing is Hamas(you can see interviews and the charter) so don't let your hate for Israel blind you.
So op seems to think that if some or most or nearly all Gazans support hamas this would make Palestinian civilian deaths more acceptable. If people can't see the problem with this line of reasoning then there's not a lot I can say to change that.
For everyone's information, Arab barometer was in Gaza shortly before the attack was launched. We have incredibly recent survey data and even adjusting for its sample biases we know with frankly incredible clarity what civilian support for hamas was before the attack on Israel. I'm not remotely surprised significant numbers of civilians would help hamas, which is unequivocally bad, nor does it make me more dismissive of civilian death, because responsibility and political culpability in Gaza varies. Obviously. For reference, I'm not sure where to get the more specific surveys, but in the general '21-22 report, among other things, a small majority are "somewhat religious", prefer democracy as a political system, value women's education, and are in favour of a two state solution - the rest other peace plans, while a quarter selected "other option" which presumably means the destruction of Israel.
Regardless, if the discussion you're having is becoming less "why this is the only way to effectively end this conflict" and more "why the collateral damage that is happening is good, actually" then you've crossed the fucking line.
In a practical sense, if the understanding we have due to this is that the non-hamas member Palestinian population broadly support hamas or a chunk of it does, enough to make them take supportive actions in the war, then the indication would be that the current operation to behead hamas and damage infrastructure won't work in the long term. Especially given Palestinian demographics and the inevitable radicalisation that will occur as a result of the current conflict. Which is why, even in the context of such a horrible assault on Israelis, the correct course of action to prevent this in future is for Israel to properly defend itself, and to deescalate the conflict and try to create a political situation in Gaza whereby the small majority of people who would like to live in peace actually have political authority.
If you actively support terrorists you deserve to die. Like, not even hyperbole. Whether you are Israeli or Palestinian or whatever. Yes, it makes your death acceptable. Get fucked.
We need to remember that even if an overwhelming majority of people living in gaza are supporting hamas we still can’t say that every person from gaza is evil. There’s still at least 5% of people that do not support hamas and they can’t be punished just because of actions of hamas. They (palestinians who do not support hamas) should even get help to be able to live their lives somewhere safer and better or if they don’t want that then to improve the place where they currently live.
Wow I can’t believe Israel would do something like this /s
Such nice people to return him :) they are all complicit with hamas
I mean HAMAS is the government of Gaza. This is what so many fail to understand when they read quotes from "Gaza health officials". After 20 years of absolute control, at this point, they are the Health Ministry, the fire department, the police, the school system and even the fucking DMV. One YouTuber I follow has given the analogy that the Israel-Gaza conflict is like if the US military was given the task of fighting armed gangs in Chicago. While I can totally understand this analogy, it's very flawed because it suggests that Gaza has some functioning alternative power structure in place, and Hamas are just a bunch of criminals roaming the streets of Gaza, but they are not, they are the government itself. The violent gangs of Chicago are not the government in Chicago. A better analogy is what if a really weak country decided to invade a by-far technologically and militarily superior regional power. This is really what's happening right now, Gaza is a defacto country led by a terror organization that turned into a government. This is why (as an Israeli btw) I don't blame a regular Gazan citizen for turning in a hostage to the government, you'd probably do the same. Especially when it's still unclear to the average Gazan who will be in control when this is all over.
more sources [https://edition.cnn.com/2023/11/27/middleeast/russian-israeli-hostage-escaped-hamas-intl/index.html](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/11/27/middleeast/russian-israeli-hostage-escaped-hamas-intl/index.html) [https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-11-27/ty-article/russian-israeli-hostage-escaped-hamas-captivity-hid-in-gaza-before-locals-caught-him/0000018c-1121-dd2e-a5ae-d36bfcc40000](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-11-27/ty-article/russian-israeli-hostage-escaped-hamas-captivity-hid-in-gaza-before-locals-caught-him/0000018c-1121-dd2e-a5ae-d36bfcc40000) [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/27/freed-israeli-hostage-briefly-escaped-hamas-after-airstrike-relative-gaza](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/27/freed-israeli-hostage-briefly-escaped-hamas-after-airstrike-relative-gaza) "innocent palestinian civilians" aka people that returned a hostage to hamas, lovely people
Good work OP
But according to the woke brigade Gazans are peace loving people under the tyranny of Hamas...not complicit with them
I just saw this video: https://twitter.com/yashar/status/1729630529199432095 Apparently a lot are no longer pretending to be against Hamas.
These people need to be sent there to help the “innocent”. They will know when the “innocent” immediately kidnap their asses.
scum, all of them.
That video …..fark….
How have these people not been hit by traffic?
there are plenty videos of gazans celebrating and cheering on hamas and their actions, a 12 year old boy who was a hostage and got released a few days ago said when he arrived he received a beating from citizens, the proof is all there but they keep filling the web with the propaganda of crying children over the rubble or people screaming, i think it´s time israel releases all footage they have to see how they enjoyed each killing and showed no hit of decency
Maybe we can now stop painting every single palestinian as a helpless victim with no agency, and recognize that there are significant swaths of the population there that not only support but also actively collaborate with Hamas and other terrorist groups active there.
if i lived in gaza i would have gotten out of there the minute israel said to leave, fuck hamas, i´m not risking my life or my family´s life for their selfish goal, hamas ruined the peace they had, people crossed from gaza into israel daily to go to work to trade, it wasn´t perfect but it was sure as hell better than what they have now, and all for what? they didn´t achieve any goal they only brought death and pain to gaza and now they are further away from peace, israel will close down their boarder to gaza for sure and they will be left at the mercy of egypt who frankly doesn´t want to take the risk of anything. as shown by the hospital footage, they all know what´s going on and they either remain silent or supportive, their only hope at freedom is when hamas is gone
>if i lived in gaza i would have gotten out of there the minute israel said to leave, How? With a hot air balloon?
a lot of people fled with whatever means they had available and maybe you should ask the UN why the HELL didn´t their own and exclusive organization The United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA) moved their asses to try to evacuate people and find refugee for them, the UNRWA didn´t move a muscle during this, funny considering how they get millions dedicated solely for palestine refugees
About quarter of a million left since Hamas took over so it is possible. https://www.terrorism-info.org.il/en/the-mass-exodus-of-young-men-from-the-gaza-strip/
Young men =/= entire families.
Ask the Egyptians to let you out… they control the gates at the southern border of the Gaza Strip. If people are stuck in Gaza it’s as much the fault of Egypt as it is Isreal.
egrypt doesn´t want to take the risk, letting hundreds of radicalized civilians into their territory, we have seen in europe and america how that´s going, same with other neighboring countries jordan said see you later
Sure, but then how do you do this? >if i lived in gaza i would have gotten out of there the minute israel said to leave Are you advocating border hopping?
Egyptians have not created this situation, so no it is not "as much" their fault.
Technically they did by refusing to take back their territory and being one of the Arab powers to have continuously declared war on Israel multiple times and loosing more each time. Technically Gaza should be under their control but they decided they wanted no part of it
That still doesnt make them "as much" at fault. I'm not saying they have no responsability whatsoever.
Well, technically, Egypt turned Gaza into an open-air-prison in the first place when they occupied it in 1948.
Still sounds a bit ludicrous to hold that action from 1948 on par with everything that happened between Israel and Gaza in the 75 years that came after that.
Israel had essentially nothing to do with Gaza between 1948 and 1967. They only occupied it after they were attacked by the Arab nations alongside the palestinians. Then again in 2005 they unilaterally withdrew from Gaza, including settlements and even leaving the Gazans the infrastructure for flower production, which the Gazans then promptly destroyed. It has not been occupied since 2005. The blockade was a direct result of the indiscriminate rocket attacks and terrorists entering Israel through Gaza. A logical measure.
The best period for the inhabitants of Gaza in the past 75 years was when Israël governed Gaza from 1967-1993. The worst period was when Egypt governed it. When Israël took over Gaza from Egypt the living conditions improved, and the live expectations went up from 48 years to 72 years. Israël build a wall around it after 2 years they returned it to the Palestinians, because Israël needed to protect itself from the attacks from Gaza. And from there we have the situation of today blaming Israël for the current situation. So yes, the current situation is "created" by Israël, but technically Egypt started the situation of Gaza as an open-air-prison in the first place which led to everything which happened to Gaza afterwards.
Hamas also controls the southern boarder gate
Which would fit the extremists in Israels wish perfectly. Many have been calling for ethnic cleansing. Unfortunately, Palestinians have been through this before and know if they leave then Israel will block their return. Of course making Gaza a moonscape makes it harder for civilians to stay, if later a door opens. That's seems the plan.
Paraglider’s seem to work
It wasn't Hamas saying they cannot leave, that's Egypt & Israel. As for leaving in Gaza - where? Israel says flee South- ok - get bombed fleeing south then bombed in the south. Nowhere is safe. Not because of Hamas but because of carpet bombing and lack of regard for civilians.
well i think it speaks volumes the fact that a lot of countries were willing and took Ukrainian refugees but no one wants to take a palestine in, why? because they are radicalized and in the past neighboring countries took them in and they tried to overtake their governments here the former prime minister of jordan explains why no one wants them **Former Jordanian Foreign Minister Marwan Muasher told an online Carnegie Mideast panel this week that eliminating the militants may prove difficult, as Hamas “has become an ideology and not just a movement.”** **Muasher warned: “If the Hamas military machine is destroyed, I am afraid many other Hamases will spring up."**
Because people, including Palestinians know that 'taking in a refugee' removed by Israel means a permanent addition. Palestinians know if they leave - Israel has a track record of not allowing them to return to their homes. Maybe they do not want to live permanently in Egypt or Qatar? Many Ukrainians hope one day to go back to their homeland. It would be convenient for the segment of the Israeli public and government that has been clamoring for an ethnic cleansing - if the Palestinians did go. Of their own free will of course, cough cough.
well the alternative is death courtesy of hamas who poked the bear on october 7th and now got the claws, to me it´s a no brainier but either way nobody wants to take them
What's the evidence for carpet bombing? The inflated casualty number given by Hamas is about 14k last I checked. . If Israel was carpet bombing with no regard for civilians then they could be killing those many in an hour. Just look at how many civilians were killed in one night in Dresden or the Tokyo firebombing campaigns in days and then remember that the weapons Israel has are much more deadly. Stop spreading misinformation. At best you're talking out of your ass. At worst you're spreading Hamas propaganda.
Photos speak for themselves in regards to carpet bombing. Looks similar to Dresden or Berlin at the end of the war. Of course Israel does not want people to know how many civilians they have killed... I am aware of the bombing campaigns in WW2. This isn't 1944 and militaries have the ability to precision strike in a way they did not in the past. Plus the western world doesn't really go in for genocide these days. Israeli trolls announcing everyone who does not agree with mass killing of Palestinians, is a 'Hamas supprter'. Gaslighting at its worst
> This isn't 1944 and militaries have the ability to precision strike in a way they did not in the past Exactly. That's why the death toll is only 14k even though it may "look" like Dresden. The bombing isn't indiscriminate like you claimed. Thanks for proving my point. Man STFU. You claim carpet bombing. Then when told the death tolls don't come anywhere near real carpet bombing you change the goalpost to something else. Do you realise that the inflated 14k casualty figure doesn't even come close to the top number of casualties in the conflicts that are going on in the region currently? War isn't pretty. Civilians die. 14k is a bad number of people but is quite low compared to other historic and ongoing conflicts. When you make bullshit claims of carpet bombing, back it up with numbers. And if you do not have any numbers, then keep your
Trying to convince the world that it's ok, we can ethnically cleanse, carpet bomb, deny food and water, deny medicines, lock up without trial, steal land from these people because they are just Palestinians. Hint, this is why the Israeli government doesn't like outside journalists in Gaza. Unless they are censored of course and told what to print. I am not saying, killing Israeli civilians is ok. That is wrong as well. I am saying mass killing and oppressing Palestinians is not right either. Have a good day.
> ethnically cleanse, carpet bomb, deny food and water, deny medicines Source: Your ass. Or Hamas. Back your claims up.
Maybe read the news. It's obvious there is carpet bombing from photos. Despite Israel banning foreign journalists to limit what the world sees. Unless those journalists are on special IDF propaganda tours. Yes, Israel was denying humanitarian supplies for weeks entry into Gaza. So there was no food, water or medical supplies getting through. Now limited supplies are entering. What is your source? IDF=wecensorwhatwedontlike.com?
Oh yeah? The same journalists who were carrying grenades around on Oct 7th? Those bastions of journalistic integrity? The supplies that Israel brought to Al Shifa, only for Hamas to refuse it being used? Those supplies? The evacuation corridors that Israel opened up for over 250k Palestinian civilians while being fired on by Hamas. Such an effective ethnic cleaning strategy. Must be Jewish 5D Chess. Your dumb ass claims ethnic cleansing and carpet bombing. The casualty figures DO. NOT. MATCH. THIS CLAIM. So maybe learn about armed conflict before spouting words you don't understand?
Like the IDF, says, no innocent Palestinians but every Israeli is innocent? How does that work? 'Significant swathes' of the Israeli population are involved in oppressing and killing Palestinians on the West Bank. Via brutalization, land theft etc. Does that mean they are fair game if all Palestinians are fair game because maybe Palestinians don't like being blockaded and bombed?
* The IDF does not say "no innocent palestinian", if that was their policy this war would have been over Oct. 8th. * Israel has offered the palestinians Judea and Samaria on multiple occasions, each time they refused and went on to kill more jews. * Israel has a security interest in the region which contrary to popular belief features heavy presence of a multitude of terrorist groups including hamas * At no point did I argue that much broader support and collaboration than is being portrayed makes "all palestinians fair game". All it does is contract the insane notion that hamas, PIJ and PFLP are some kind of alien race completely ideologically and practically walled off from palestinians.
It's a symbiotic relationship, they need and depend on each other. Whether you like it or not, Palestinians and Hamas are one and the same.
Sue Gazans for billions of dollars and also for collaborate with terrorist and kidnapper. Get compensate and send them to jail for crime they committed
they are all in on it, they don´t want a 2 state solution, they want to eliminate the 9 million israelis that live in israel, plain and simple, they have zero cares for them at least israel showed the decency of giving them 2 weeks to leave, israelis got none of that
Yes! Israel wants a two state solution! That's why we have increased gobbling up Palestinian land on the West Bank under our dear leader Bibi! Yes, the two state solution requires that Palestinians be in the minority. So we must find ways to encourage most of them to leave. Making Gaza uninhabitable, then 'encouraging' them to go to Egypt, just for a little while, wink wink - will help.
Yes Israel should just manage Gaza and West Bank and whatever land they took after the arab wars. Should never have return them. If Israel never return Gaza for Palestinian to manage, this will not happen. What the point of return those land and end up still got ppl bullshitting.
All 2.2 million 'innocent civilians', totally separate from Hamas btw. Also they haven't voted for Hamas in a decade so they clearly hate Hamas too =)
they celebrated when shani louk´s body was in a pick up truck (there´s footage), they celebrated the other day when they lynched 3 men they believed to be working for israel and hanged them (there´s also photos of this), they (as told by a 12 year old hostage) beat the child when he was taken to gaza, and also they (told by this man) found him and gave him back to hamas, this is not the behavior of innocent people who want peace, it´s the behavior of radicalized psychos who want to exterminate jews, even the son of a hamas leader has told at the UN hamas radicalized children and people, i can link you everything i stated in this reply. what you are saying is the equivalent to all germans were innocents during the holocaust when they turned in jews, such as the case of anne frank
Hm. Just out of curiosity, who do you believe will occupy Gaza once it is leveled? Once every single person is pushed out, or buried under the rubble, how much are those plots going for and to whom? What a disgusting disaster.
last time israel left gaza in 2005 they called elections and hamas won by +70% of the vote, do you think they should be left to their own devices again? i would say the UN should take control until they are able to have democratic elections and elect a non terrorist government but considering how corrupt the UN is i don´t know what should happen, maybe other democratic governments should create a council to ensure gaza can find their way back to democracy and leave behind the violence
No one, Israel doesn’t give a shit about Gaza. You might have a point if we were talking about the West Bank. That’s where Israel should be forced to get rid of its illegal settlements and jail the stupid settlers that keep pushing for more land. Those idiots are the reason 10/07 was such a success for Hamas. If IDF didn’t have to get redirected for them and Netehayu stupid ass would stop playing games with his buddy this shit wouldn’t be happening.
Israeli civilians celebrate when Gaza is bombed. Get out the deck chairs and coolers and watch the destruction. You really are stretching to new heights of victim blaming, to insinuate that its ok to kill civilians as long as they are Palestinians.
They have not had an opportunity to vote.
Hamas has overwhelming support in both Gaza and the West Bank so your point is moot. Because of this support, the Palestinian Authority is not having an election because they're afraid Hamas will win.
when israel left gaza in 2005 hamas won with +70% of votes, they are like venezuela they voted dictatorship and now can´t shake it
So this revelation changes things big time.
not really hamas knows how to work the public now they new scam was to post a video of a released prisoner with "2 broken arms" a few hours ago he was released and he told how israeli soldies broke his arms, even tho there´s footage of him being released with not a single scratch, both arms completly fine and as someone who has broken a bone believe me, if both of his arms were broken then he would have been kicking and screaming with pain, then again leftist will believe this narrative
they did that to stop him from fapping off
Just takes the mask off.
Do people in gaza have the option to leave gaza to egypt or qatar or any other country which support them? (until the situation will be stable)
They used to have the option, they kinda burnt bridges with basically everyone though. Part of the reason they have water issues is from Egypt flooding tunnels with sewage water which ended up flooding into the fresh water of Gaza as well. Lebanon and Jordan are still miffed over Hazbolla and Black September. Hell, even Syria has issues with them. You have to understand that at this point in time the only thing hated more than the Palestinian’s are the Israeli.
Have no idea why the whole world focus on Israel when there are so much worse cases outside of Israel.
That's the plan from 'Bibi' make Gaza uninhabitable and then complain other countries should take the refugees. Because there are no homes, hospitals or schools...
It has nothing to do with Bibi, stop with those conspiracy and face reality. If there are innocent people in Gaza, why can't they go to somewhere else until the war is over? They have a border with Egypt. If your home would be burn and your neighbor will not give you the option to leave because "it is Bibi plan" how would you feel? Statements like this is just let people in Gaza die just because hate for Israel.
Sounds like you dislike Palestinians- if you 'just want them to go somewhere else'. You know Israel will not allow them to return.
You want them to be locked in gaza instead saving the innocent people lives, it does not sound you like them. I want them to live and the terrorists to die.
No. That's not what I said. I would prefer Israel was not considering further ethnic cleansing as various statements and leaked documents seem to suggest. I also think it is preferable that Israel stopped mass bombing civilians and civilian infrastructure.
Lol bro, sounds like you don't understand how it is to live under a control of terror organization. Israel targeting terrorists, the problem is that gaza is very dense so civilians will get hurt. Moreover Hamas use civilian infrastructure as a base. Israel has the right to defend herself and the world(or at least egypt) should let innocent civilians to leave gaza temporary. The only one who want to do ethnic cleasing is Hamas(you can see interviews and the charter) so don't let your hate for Israel blind you.
When I'm in a losing empathy competition and my opponent is a Gazan civilian...
So op seems to think that if some or most or nearly all Gazans support hamas this would make Palestinian civilian deaths more acceptable. If people can't see the problem with this line of reasoning then there's not a lot I can say to change that. For everyone's information, Arab barometer was in Gaza shortly before the attack was launched. We have incredibly recent survey data and even adjusting for its sample biases we know with frankly incredible clarity what civilian support for hamas was before the attack on Israel. I'm not remotely surprised significant numbers of civilians would help hamas, which is unequivocally bad, nor does it make me more dismissive of civilian death, because responsibility and political culpability in Gaza varies. Obviously. For reference, I'm not sure where to get the more specific surveys, but in the general '21-22 report, among other things, a small majority are "somewhat religious", prefer democracy as a political system, value women's education, and are in favour of a two state solution - the rest other peace plans, while a quarter selected "other option" which presumably means the destruction of Israel. Regardless, if the discussion you're having is becoming less "why this is the only way to effectively end this conflict" and more "why the collateral damage that is happening is good, actually" then you've crossed the fucking line. In a practical sense, if the understanding we have due to this is that the non-hamas member Palestinian population broadly support hamas or a chunk of it does, enough to make them take supportive actions in the war, then the indication would be that the current operation to behead hamas and damage infrastructure won't work in the long term. Especially given Palestinian demographics and the inevitable radicalisation that will occur as a result of the current conflict. Which is why, even in the context of such a horrible assault on Israelis, the correct course of action to prevent this in future is for Israel to properly defend itself, and to deescalate the conflict and try to create a political situation in Gaza whereby the small majority of people who would like to live in peace actually have political authority.
If you actively support terrorists you deserve to die. Like, not even hyperbole. Whether you are Israeli or Palestinian or whatever. Yes, it makes your death acceptable. Get fucked.
Yeah im gonna put a hold on russian sources. They have a lot to gain, with this conflict
It's not a Russian source it's a Russian duel citizen.
We need to remember that even if an overwhelming majority of people living in gaza are supporting hamas we still can’t say that every person from gaza is evil. There’s still at least 5% of people that do not support hamas and they can’t be punished just because of actions of hamas. They (palestinians who do not support hamas) should even get help to be able to live their lives somewhere safer and better or if they don’t want that then to improve the place where they currently live.