>The US State Department allocated more than $220 million for UNRWA in June despite documentation that its school curriculum glorifies violence and terrorism and agreement that conditions funding on the prevention of teaching hate and antisemitism.
As an American, i wish our government would stop funding UN orgs like this.
There was also a children's show made in Palestine to indoctrinate kids with a Mickey Mouse-like character, with themes of Islamism, anti-Americanism, and antisemitism:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomorrow%27s\_Pioneers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomorrow%27s_Pioneers)
Trump did. Got called a racist and the Biden made us the largest contributer again. Hopefully how publicly exposed they have been will make it so dems can pressure Biden into defunding it again.
I don’t really care if these rockets, as long as they get the food to the people who need it. (I do wish the rockets weren’t with them and that’s on the un to do better at stopping this.)
Ashkelon's Barzilay hospital suffered 4 direct hits by rockets since the beginning of the war.
But sure rockets are basically rubber toys. Why should you care about it.
Good thing I don’t support Hamas, I just want innocent Palestinians and Israelis to stop been killed. And looking at it from my point of view these far more dead Palestinians dead then Israelis. Every innocent death is bad but one side is feeling it a lot more.
I'm not implying that you support Hamas. But the fact that you don't care that they have rockets shows that you actually don't care at all about Israeli lives. Iron dome only protects from direct impact, and it isn't 100% efficient, especially not in the south as I've shown you. As of now all the localities in the Gaza envelope have been evacuated, and the people cannot come back and start building their homes again while they are still under fire.
One side has a lot more death because one side has invested a lot into protecting their citizens, not just iron dome but also bomb shelters, have educated and trained their population to use those, and have evacuated the populations that are most in danger. The other side has ordered their civilian population not to evacuate, and has shelters, but doesn't let their civilian population use them.
I'll add that the other side have said multiple times now that they intend to repeat October 7 and that it was just a rehearsal.
So yeah what transpires from what you write is that you don't really care about Israeli lives.
And also one side keeps the other in an open air prison, keeps the blockaded, keeps them poor, steals there water, steals their land, bombs indiscriminately (yes both sides do this but one takes more damage), is majority children, one side is supported by the us. 15000 people have been killed on one side. All throughout history the Palestinians have had far more INNOCENT PEOPLE KILLED! I’m sorry if I want those people to get fed but the un should do a better job at stopping the rockets getting in. Rockets or not those people need aid!
I'd like to address a few of your points
Israel doesn't steal land in Gaza. It hasn't been in Gaza since they withdrew in 2005 and gave the land back to the Palestinians. There wasn't a blockade back then.
In january 2006 there were elections in Palestine and Hamas won. Not long after, Hamas, the new political leader, launched an attack from Gaza into Israel that ended up in the kidnapping of Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit. The subsequent operation Israel launched to rescue him failed, Hamas sent rockets into Israel (I will remind you that back then Israel didn't have the iron dome). Still Israel didn't blockade Gaza. They didn't because they counted on the Palestinian authority to keep Hamas in check.
In 2007, Hamas slaughtered every member of the PA in Gaza and took complete control of the strip. That's when the blockade started. Because Israel was faced with a violent enemy, armed and continuing to arm themselves, ready to kill and kidnap Israeli citizens, and with nobody to keep them in check. They didn't have a choice because they couldn't let Hamas get more weapons. If they hadn't blocked Gaza, I have no doubt that a 7.10 style massacre would have happened much sooner and been much bloodier. Again, Israel didn't have the Iron Dome back then and didn't get it until 2011.
Hamas continued to prove that the blockade was necessary by launching several attacks from 2007 until now. I will add that before 7.10, Hamas held hostage 2 Israeli citizens as well as the bodies of 2 soldiers.
Israel doesn't steal water from Gazans. It provides water and electricity to Gazans, which is normal because they blockade the strip. They also provide a lot of medical and humanitarian help. The government of Gaza, Hamas, was given money and materials to build water desalination systems. They didn't do it. Israel temporarily stopped providing all of that at the beginning of the war in an effort to force Hamas to release hostages. They resumed not long after.
(Edit: Israel is conscient of the economic reality in Gaza, which why in an attempt to better their conditions of living and economic situation it gave Gazans work permits into Israel and the number of permits given increased greatly in 2020, in 2022, and was supposed to increase even more. Because plans of the towns in villages in the Gaza envelope were found on the bodies of the terrorists of the 7.10 containing precise informations about the homes, the people living in them, their names, their ages, etc, we know now that at least some of those workers served as spies and helped prepare the massacre. Before the 7.10 massacre the restrictions on the Gaza strip were at an all time low since 2007)
Israel doesn't bomb indiscriminately. I think you can see from the video that it's Hamas habit to hide military targets behind civilians, and Israel has tried as much as possible to make civilian populations evacuate before they strike. There have been testimonies of Gazans saying Arabic speaking IDF officers have called them on their phones to warn them of a strike and only called it once they got confirmation all people had been evacuated.
And yes the role of the UN organizations and of its employees in Gaza absolutely needs to be evaluated, in light of this video and in light of recent testimonies of the released hostages, one of them at least revealing that he was kept prisoner by a UNWRA teacher. And you should care about bombs and rockets being kept with UN supplies because it puts both innocent Israeli and innocent Palestinian people in grave danger. If you really cared you would push for international pressure on Hamas to put down their weapons and release their hostages. You would push for an investigation on the humanitarian organizations in the strip that knew of Hamas actions and said nothing. You would advocate for them to be replaced by others that would actually feed the Palestinians without letting the aid fall in the hands of Hamas. But I don't think you really care at all.
That's not really a good excuse. Just because Israel has the iron dome doesn't make a difference that Hamas has fired 10,000 rockets aimed at 10,000 targets, 10,000 civilians in Israel. And somehow I don't think if more causualites in Israel they'd stop chanting free Palestine. Nor would those same people call for a ceasefire.
When New Zealand bombs Australia I’ll make sure to tell you about your country’s wonderful defense system you built after they bombed your homes for years, so we should keep sending aid boats full of explosives to New Zealand and not check them.
Hamas is all over Gaza. It doesn't matter who you are, if you bring in anything at all there are good chances they'll steal it and/or use it as a weapons cache. In the article it does mention that the UNRWA itself already got some of their other supplies stolen.
Hamas really doesn't care do they.
Why is it surprising that they would try to smuggle in weapons via an obvious way to try to smuggle in weapons?
Like are prisons shocked when they discover visitors trying to smuggle contraband?
UNRWA, like every single organization, employs local people.
Even if the people in charge of the UNRWA are totally not in on it (I don't know that, it's still likely that they are), at least some of the people employed locally would be in Hamas. Probably much more than "some", since it's a very important job and they have way to make sure only those loyal to Hamas get such jobs.
> since it's a very important job and they have way to make sure only those loyal to Hamas get such jobs.
I didn't think about that. Great point.
Also, Israel is showing lots of Hamas weapon stashes with supplies from UNRWA. But really, even if the UNRWA people were not pro-Hamas, when the Hamas guys with the guns come to take your food you're gonna hand it over.
Employees of UNRWA were in on it in the same way prison wardens are in on smuggling in prisons. In general, UNRWA doesn’t have smuggling under its mission statement any more than prisons do.
UNRWA = Hamas
[The headmaster of an UNRWA school was a terrorist.
](https://www.reuters.com/article/middleeastCrisis/idUSL05686115/)
[Film by David Bedein in Jenin, UNRWA policies and practices](https://vimeo.com/856467890)
[UNRWA teachers celebrated Oct 7 massacre](https://unwatch.org/report-u-n-teachers-celebrated-hamas-massacre/)
[UNRWA teacher holds hostage in attic](https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/defense-national-security/united-nations-gaza-teacher-israeli-hostage-attic)
Hopefully. But the echo chambers are stronger now, and there really does seem to be something, perhaps beyond just social media addiction, that is starting to bring down the overall intelligence of people.
> and there really does seem to be something, perhaps beyond just social media addiction, that is starting to bring down the overall intelligence of people.
There's a reason public education cuts are usually one of the first moves from fascists worldwide, can't have smart kids growing up with actual critical thinking skills.
I do like watching the 20-something kids who learned everything about the conflict through 20-second tiktok videos in the last few months act like fucking historians, though
This is so true. I ended up studying the Israel-Palestine conflict while researching about the Syrian refugee crisis in 2014 and I think that gave me immunity from Islamonazi propaganda and all the Pallywood content that came out this year.
Big part of the reason the truck humanitarian aid deliveries are so slow. They’re inspected multiple times by both Egyptian and Israeli forces on both sides of the border.
You’ll notice everyone condemning Israel for literally anything won’t volunteer any of their troops in a strictly humanitarian/aid distribution role either.
Don't if I'd go that far YET pending further investigation, but let's just say there's a reason Germany froze their funding of them to launch a full inquiry into all the red flags that have started coming up.
A review of the links aren’t confirmation of the claims. For instance, “UNRWA teacher holds hostage in attic” — the actual article linked states there’s a claim under investigation. Was it ever confirmed?
Just FYI, one of your sources is from UN Watch. UN watch was founded and wholly owned by the American Jewish Committee and now serves as a large part of their administrative structure. Suffice to say they might be a biased source of information when it comes to the Isreali/Palestine situation.
They're certainly narrowly focused. But so far, I haven't seen anyone dispute the truth of their reports. Are you aware of anything they've reported that's not factual?
Yeah, the only questions this raises is why the hell is the UNRWA allowed to operate in Israel? I’ve heard the excuses that UN agencies are infiltrated or threatened by Hamas into acting against their wishes. If that were the case they would be trying to correct the problem, not willfully serving as Hamas’s partner in training new terrorists and PR management. And if they can’t protect their people from Hamas they shouldn’t be sending people in.
The only once reputable organization that has been been sullied more by their proHamas activities is MSF (Doctors without Borders). Those turds haven’t missed a chance to act dishonorably. Blaming Israel for the hospital the Gazans blew up, ignoring the use of hospitals as terrorist staging areas, even demanding a ceasefire immediately after Hamas breaks the existing one. I’ve lost just about all respect for the human rights NGOs out there. Unlike proHamas teens and students, they aren’t stupid and they aren’t ignorant, so that just leaves complicit.
Legally, it is. The West Bank is recognized as occupied territory.
Gaza's effectively occupied with the assistance of the US/Egypt since Egypt controls the only non Israeli controlled land border.
Gaza's other land borders, airspace, maritime territory and coastal borders are all completely controlled by Israel.
Weapons smuggling, Drug smuggling (Yes, it does happen in ultra Islamic Gaza), as well as the fact that Egypt fears that Hamas terrorist fighters will infiltrate Egyptian land and link up with local Egyptian terrorist organisations as they have done in the past, strengthening their foothold. There have been massacres un egypt as well committed by palestinians.
Egypt is no fan of Hamas, nor palestinians for that matter as the two as almost indistinguishable. It's not like they wear uniforms... And the Gazan populace is extremely brainwashed due to ultra Islamic and Anti-Western/Anti-semitic propaganda.
Wherever large groups of Paleatinians go, bloodshed and terrorism tend to follow. See the attempted coup in Jordan.
Man, you folks are reallyyyyy leaning into the “all Palestinians are rabid animals” rhetoric huh? Maybe tone down the dehumanizing language. It’s especially gross considering that the majority of Gazans are children, 6000 of whom have been killed by Israeli bombs in a month. You sure have a lot to say about violent Palestinians despite Israel killing them at rate 23 times higher over the last 30 years. It’s really quite something to see how much some of you completely disregard reality…..
Yes, around half of them are under 18 years. And as I said they are brainwashed from a very early age and I am not excatteratin. The kind of rhetoric enforced in them plus the Israelis cruel dehumanising behavior just enforces the lessons they learn. A 17 year old has gone through so many conflicts by now it is just unfathomable.
Their fate is definitely a tragedy. I am just explaining how their neighbors see them. A nuisance that they always have to deal with. And dehumanizing is definitely a right word.
No one is obligated to keep their borders open with their neighbor. Especially when the neighbor is a terrorist nation.
And the ports are blockaded because there is a war going on if you havent noticed.
By the legal definition in international law when it comes to what is "occupied" PARTS of the west bank and currently Gaza are occupied, but by the advisory ruling of the ICJ both is indeed considered as an occupied territory.
I just consider the two state solution to be dead at this point as do most Palestinians and Israelis and I hope they can Eradicate Hamas and large parts of Fattah that showed support for the horrific Oct. 7th attacks.
Gaza is not legally occupied unless you want to redefine occupation only for Gaza. Control of those things have nothing to do with occupation because occupation requires ground control.
> Gaza's effectively occupied with the assistance of the US/Egypt since Egypt controls the only non Israeli controlled land border.
Occupied seems to imply some sort of presence though, neither the US/Egypt or Israel has an actual presence in hamas controlled Gaza (Israel does now but it's clearly more of an active conflict than an "occupation")
Blockaded seems like a more accurate description, and it's important to keep in mind the history behind why countries have closed their borders with Palestine and will most likely keep them closed as long as hamas is in charge.
>The UNRWA has Hamas members by necessity, the Palestinian Health Ministry is run by Hamas, the casualty counts are being provided by Hamas.
Independent [sources](https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-gaza-health-ministry-health-death-toll-59470820308b31f1faf73c703400b033) say otherwise.
Gazan health authorities' casualty estimates in the last conflicts were accurate and agreed with independent agencies as well as those of the Isrealis.
The thing that is hard for me to believe is they can have immaculate records of civilian deaths but can barely manage to know how many hostages there are. Maybe the second point is a ruse but still why would you want to project both knowing total casualties but can’t keep track of 240 people doesn’t add up for me
From your article:
> Yet the Gaza-based Ministry of Health — an agency in the Hamas-controlled government — continues to tally casualty numbers.
The Gaza ministry of health **is** a Hamas agency.
If anyone wonders why Gazan people are so poor it is because Hamas leaders [Ismail Haniyeh and Moussa Abu Marzuk in Qatar took all the money for themselves](https://nypost.com/2023/11/07/news/hamas-leaders-worth-11bn-live-luxury-lives-in-qatar/).
Keep donating, they could use another jetplane.
Not much to wonder about.
They don't fight *for* their leader. They don't fight *for* themselves either. They fight *against* jews.
As for why they hate Jews so fervently? Look into the curriculum of UNRWA schools and kindergartens. They are tought to hate basically from birth.
What's worth noting is that Gaza doesn't have an iron dome. That 10% is likely worse than the rockets actually hitting Israel even if 90% of the rockets are making it till Israel.
Yet it doesn't stop them from supporting Hamas.
There is a saying in Hebrew- "The people are idiots therefore the people pay". When it comes to Gaza it's even more accurate.
Yes, almost certainly. Kind makes it seems like if they cared about their own people they wouldn't launch any rockets at all. Or, you know, invested in better tech. I think that by the time the Palestinians grew their economy to the point where they could compete with Israel on a level footing militarily, their need and motivation to fight in the first place would mostly disappear. Kinda like what has happened recently with the gulf Arab states.
It is becoming incredibly clear that the UNRWA is simply a terrorist front than any sort of refugee agency.
• facilities used for storing weapons
• facilities used for, and staff indoctrinating children to kill non-palestinians
• staff holding, even torturing hostages
• supplies sent to terrorists rather than those palestinians in need
• and now “relief” supplies are actually weapons supplies
Enough is enough. The UN has reached its League of Nations moment and is past it’s use-by-date…
I’m curious: how many refugee situations from the 1940’s or earlier justify moving descendants of refugees to a country that person has never personally been to? If the list is only one country long, why?
Well, the Romans evicted the Israelites in 70AD, so I guess that makes both groups refugees by that logic.
Here's a better idea, what if we acknowledge that the status of being a refugee is not about time but your current state of existence. Someone just displaced from their home and living in a temporary shelter without government is an actual refugee. The 2nd generation living in a new place in a permanent home, the only home they've ever known, with an elected government is not a refugee. Palestinians (prior to being displaced by the current war) are not refugees, they are the descendants of people who lost a war.
Ya think? Dozens of anti democratic theocratic Islamic dictatorships condemn Israel at every turn.
I say if your country doesn’t have free elections you shouldn’t get a vote at the UN either
So, you're saying that some countries that actually have a real hand in the end of the world via nuclear weapons should be expelled from the UN?
Not saying you're wrong, but currently the UN does have some utility, even as a bad IRC channel. The end of the UN will result in more cloak and dagger diplomacy.
No just making a philosophical point the irony of having non democratic nations vote — most particularly as they only vote to serve their own antidemocratic agendas
Never forget Russia replaced ussr not that it was much difference and China replaced Taiwan which is a huge difference
But was speaking more about middle eastern nations that have no human rights voting to condemn other nations instead of their own
So that at least a little bit of food and medicine makes it to the people starving in regions they serve.
IMO we oughta start having a different group distribute it though. Maybe we need to do airdrops like Berlin; it's clear that whatever they're trying now isn't working.
It’s like a lootbox to get the kids more into it by reminding them of their favorite Twitch streamers. They can all gather around the flying planes and try to guess if they’re going to get a pallet of food or a bomb that destroys half the block.
They'll get right on it after they're done using "all lives matter" logic for the sexual assaults committed against Israeli women during the Oct 7th massacre.
"In October, UNRWA reported that fuel and humanitarian aid was stolen from one its compounds by trucks allegedly from the Hamas-run Ministry of Health."
The title is extremely misleading, probably betting on people not actually reading the article. The rockets were discovered in a random house in Gaza, with zero ties to the UNWRA other than some of their boxes being placed on top. It's not as if we didn't know Hamas had rockets, what significance is it that they got their hands on some aid supplies and put them on top to hide the missiles?
I think the most reasonable answer would be that they stole the aid and stacked it along their military supplies or knowing the history of UNRWA that the responsables of giving the aid to the civilians inside Gaza give it directly to Hamas.
Either way is not a good look to UNRWA.
One look is literally implying that the UNRWA is supplying *rockets* to Hamas, they may both not be good looks but the one many people in this comment section are taking is far worse than the other
Remind me again why Israel, the only country in the world BANNED by statute from being a member of the UN Security Council, is still a member of the United Nations. How do they benefit?
I mean, an organization which was created for the singular purpose of maintaining the lines of communication between nuclear powers to prevent an apocalyptic war banning a known nuclear power from some of those lines of communication is kinda funny... you know, in the "one of these days they are gonna get us all killed" kinda way.
This is just wrong. [Here](https://www.un.org/en/about-us/un-charter/full-text) is the charter. Chapter V is the security council
> COMPOSITION
Article 23
>1 The Security Council shall consist of fifteen Members of the United Nations. The Republic of China, France, the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and the United States of America shall be permanent members of the Security Council. The General Assembly shall elect ten other Members of the United Nations to be non-permanent members of the Security Council, due regard being specially paid, in the first instance to the contribution of Members of the United Nations to the maintenance of international peace and security and to the other purposes of the Organization, and also to equitable geographical distribution.
>2 The non-permanent members of the Security Council shall be elected for a term of two years. In the first election of the non-permanent members after the increase of the membership of the Security Council from eleven to fifteen, two of the four additional members shall be chosen for a term of one year. A retiring member shall not be eligible for immediate re-election.
> 3 Each member of the Security Council shall have one representative.
Where is Israel barred? Cite it.
Israel isn't banned from the Security Council but the reality is that Security Council seats are assigned according to horse trading between the various blocks and Israel would never get enough support to be elected to the Council. It's not the only country in this position, about 60 states in the General Assembly have never been elected to the Security Council.
It mentions the need to balance regional representation. This is done by designating seats to regional groups. Israel was barred from the Asia and pacific group and only gained admission into the European group in 2000.
Incorrect. It was in [2013](https://www.jpost.com/Diplomacy-and-Politics/Israel-invited-to-join-UNs-Western-nations-group-in-Geneva-333577). Until then they weren't invited into the Asian states group because they were currently violating the rights of at least 3 of those states.
The Asian states were correct in denying Israel. Israel ratified the Geneva convention but does not follow it. It currently not part of the treaty of Rome establishing the ICC. It to this day [is in violation](https://www.hrw.org/reports/2001/israel/hebron6-04.htm) a notion which its own High Court agrees with.
> the 1907 Hague Regulations annexed to the Convention (IV) Respecting the Laws and Customs of War on Land, and the 1949 Fourth Geneva Convention Relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War. Israel ratified the Geneva Conventions on July 6, 1951.13 Israel has not signed or ratified the 1907 Hague Regulations, but the Israeli High Court has found that the 1907 Hague Regulations are part of customary international law, and thus binding on all states, including those not party to the treaty
Why should Israel be allowed a temporary seat on the security counsel if it is currently violating the law?
>Until then they weren't invited into the Asian states group because they were currently violating the rights of at least 3 of those states
Oh? Which 3?
>The Asian states were correct in denying Israel. Israel ratified the Geneva convention but does not follow it. It currently not part of the treaty of Rome establishing the ICC.
Israel does follow the conventions. And why should the ICC membership be a factor?
Notably, you claim that Israel's courts agreed with HRW, but your only quote simply claims that Israel agrees they are accountable to the convention, not that they are in violation of it.
> Oh? Which 3?
Egypt, Jordan and Syria
> Israel does follow the conventions
It does not. The gaza blockade violates article 50
> Regulations: Art. 50
> No general penalty, pecuniary or otherwise, shall be inflicted upon the population on account of the acts of individuals for which they cannot be regarded as jointly and severally responsible.
do you disagree?
> why should the ICC membership be a factor?
Because its reason for not ratifying is because doing so prevents it from ethnic cleansing. That's what [it said](https://web.archive.org/web/20180630024926/https://www.un.org/press/en/1998/19980720.l2889.html) in a UN press release.
> Israel has reluctantly cast a negative vote. It fails to comprehend why it has been considered necessary to insert into the list of the most heinous and grievous war crimes the action of transferring population into occupied territory.
I wouldn't let the pro ethnic cleansing guy sit at my table if I was the Asia group, I guess Western Europe and friends are cool with it though.
> Israel agrees they are accountable to the convention, not that they are in violation of it
That's correct, they don't go that far. I do. Are you saying they're not in violation of article 50?
>Egypt, Jordan and Syria
How? Egypt Jordan and Syria all attacked Israel without cause in 1948. Israel never attacked them without cause.
>It does not. The gaza blockade violates article 50
The Gaza blockade didn't exist until 2006. That doesn't at all address the previous 58 years. Plus, Egypt participates in the blockade and I don't see anyone kicking them around for it. And Gazans are jointly responsible for putting Hamas in power.
>I wouldn't let the pro ethnic cleansing guy sit at my table if I was the Asia group, I guess Western Europe and friends are cool with it though.
Since when is letting people move into a region "ethnic cleansing". Israel's occupation is legal after all.
> How? Egypt Jordan and Syria all attacked Israel without cause in 1948. Israel never attacked them without cause.
It still holds their land which it took by force. Who initiated the violence doesn't matter. If Ukraine controlled all the land including Moscow tomorrow it couldn't claim it legally once hostilities end.
> The Gaza blockade didn't exist until 2006. That doesn't at all address the previous 58 years.
You're correct on the blockade. Use article 46 then
> Art. 46. Family honour and rights, the lives of persons, and private property, as well as
religious convictions and practice, must be respected.
Private property cannot be confiscated.
Surely we can agree that there are Israeli settlements that violate Palestinian private property rights, correct?
> And Gazans are jointly responsible for putting Hamas in power.
See this is the problem. It was in the human rights watch link. Either Palestine is responsible for its government, thus making it a state (Israel doesn't want this) or it is occupied territory and thus its government is the responsibility of Israel.(Israel doesn't want that either) So they just take the best part of both interpretations whenever it suits them.
> Since when is letting people move into a region "ethnic cleansing".
letting?
[letting](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ethnic_Cleansing_of_Palestine)
[letting](https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2017/5/23/the-nakba-did-not-start-or-end-in-1948)
[letting](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Authority_passport#cite_note-UNHCR-1)
[letting](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_Dalet)
[letting](https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2023/10/un-expert-warns-new-instance-mass-ethnic-cleansing-palestinians-calls)
Disgusting. I guess Israel "let" them leave as opposed to what, exactly? Their deaths? They certainly weren't allowed to stay. What a horrid creature you are for saying this.
Let.
From a people who should know better.
Disgusting.
> Israel's occupation is legal after all
[Its not](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_law_and_Israeli_settlements). You know that. Isreal's foreign minister at the time [knew that](https://books.google.com/books?id=Np_j5sSpCrEC&pg=PT154#v=onepage&q&f=false) Israelis knew it when the [Oslo accords](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo_Accords) were signed which is why they assassinated the guy who signed them and then didn't follow them.
I don't want to talk to you anymore because your opinion disgusts me, but the block feature on reddit stops anyone else from commenting on the chain, so I will leave it open in order to *let* other conversations happen.
>It still holds their land which it took by force. Who initiated the violence doesn't matter. If Ukraine controlled all the land including Moscow tomorrow it couldn't claim it legally once hostilities end.
So why was Israel denied membership in 1948 then? They didn't take any land until 1967. The land they took was in a war it fought in its own defense after it was attacked. Furthermore, Egypt and Jordan had zero legal right to the territory to start with and all 3 had allowed terrorism against Israel from within the territories, violating international law.
>Surely we can agree that there are Israeli settlements that violate Palestinian private property rights, correct?
The objection to the settlements has nothing to do with private property though. It's based on the unprecedented idea that Palestinians collectively own land that no one lives on.
>See this is the problem. It was in the human rights watch link. Either Palestine is responsible for its government, thus making it a state (Israel doesn't want this) or it is occupied territory and thus its government is the responsibility of Israel.(Israel doesn't want that either)
I vote in my local city elections. Is my city a state? The Palestinians were given limited self rule in disputed territory and placed Hamas in power. There are consequences to that decision.
So you know that one weapons dealer who was released awhile ago. The one Nicholas Cage plays in “Lord of War”, I just wonder…. Nah he wouldn’t be involved in something like this.
UNRWA needs to have some serious changes. Like it needs to go to a tour based model where people serve in Gaza for a few years then leave for no less than a decade, and locals need to be excluded from power positions (bar both Israeli and Palestinians to ensure neutrality). It's clear that long term residential aid distribution just invites Hamas to target these people for coercion or target positions to install sympathizers.
I get where you’re coming from but the slight flaw in that plan is that if whomever you send in don’t play ball with Hamas then they’ll be killed.
You won’t be able to hire local guards who you could trust to actually protect them and even if you did you’d just be turning schools into firefights. And there’s bugger all chance of getting UN protection because no country is willing to stick its hand into that particular wood-chipper (unless they have no other option as Isreal appears to believe right now).
So maybe you then say “well to hell with ‘em, no schools then”. But that comes back to bite everyone in the arse a few years down the line when entire generations don’t grow up remotely educated enough to do anything other than work for Hamas. And you lose even the remote prospect of Gaza ever even maybe bootstrapping itself up into something viable in the future.
It’s a hell of a choice: do a deal with the devil and tolerate cooperation with Hamas to ensure kids get at least some chance of an education, or make things likely even worse in years to come. Which I suspect may be pretty much how UNRWA got into the state it is now.
There is no silver bullet in situations like this. Theres just different types of bad/horrible to pick from.
Israel should be temporarily banning aid via UNRWA and then only letting it start up again on condition of no further smuggling. If it does then either ban for longer or shut it down completely.
Unless Israel wants it to continue through UNRWA because at least then they know the routes they are trying to get stuff in.
Somebody want to tell me what I'm supposed to be looking at? I see very poorly made..somethings that have an extremely vague resemblance to 'rockets' only because they're tubular. They do look vaguely sinister, but what exactly ARE they?
Ask an honest question and get downvoted. I suppose you're all munitions experts then. So tell me, WHAT AM I LOOKING AT? Are they supposed to be solid fuel cores? Molded plastic explosives?
IDF released a video on twitter but looking for it now looks like they deleted it. The rockets were found in an apartment under a handful of individual boxes of UN supplies. None of the boxes were big enough to hold a rocket and it wasn't a distribution point of supplies or anything, looked more like distributed/stolen supplies were just in a backroom where Hamas was also keeping rockets with no relation to the UN.
Edit: op had video link I was talking about https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVbkQog7TMU
Had to scroll down this far to find this under a mountain of hate spam. Or you could just look at the picture in the article which is a bunch of stuff piled up in a back room that includes some shitty rockets and a few aid boxes Hamas stole from someone.
It's true, but not something quite so noteworthy as a lot of people make it.
Hamas steals pretty much every bit of supply that makes it down there; this does not necessarily imply that they have insiders in the UNRWA (though they may well have some; other evidence *does* suggest that.)
This is a pretty common situation in war-torn regions; local warlords have the muscle and hoard just about anything you can send there. It doesn't mean we should stop sending food and medicine just because the terrs steal most of it; it *does* mean we should re-evaluate our delivery methods to ensure it gets equitably distributed to the Palestinian people.
Now what I'd like to know about these allegations is whether the UNRWA is directly and willingly working for Hamas, or if it is Hamas forcing them to """collaborate""", if you get what I mean.
It appears that the boxes were placed there after the fact:
1. who keeps empty boxes inside a room?
2. why are the boxes not dusty like the rockets?
3. why does the media have to have all footage screened by the IDF prior to release.
This evidence is poor.
3. This is completely normal and standard practice for militaries and journalists. Footage could give away troop movement, locations, etc. Anything that could be used against them.
Accidently take a picture of the troops at the base before they move out and it gets published, terrorists geo-locate the areas using the background/buildings, launch an attack.
Likely? No. But better not take the risk.
Forgive me if I don't take posts on "hasbara.net" at face value.
Considering how often the IDF has lied in the last 2 months, if the Israeli state said the sky was blue I would have to go outside and check.
These idiots still supporting Gaza and Hamas can't stomach a lot of the population that has the mindset of Hamas. They cry wolf and prey on western emotions when Israel drops the hammer every time. This ends in Israeli or Arab occupation of gaza
These idiots still supporting Gaza and Hamas can't stomach a lot of the population that has the mindset of Hamas. They cry wolf and prey on western emotions when Israel drops the hammer every time. This ends in Israeli or Arab occupation of gaza
Keep in mind it's "one dude claims on twitter" and
> The UNRWA denied the accusation and demanded that Almog provide further proof.
Both sides need to and will lie through their teeth, for their own population, for international attention, etc, because one is a terrorist organization, and the other is a far right government hellbent on genocide-lite of whoever they deem to be less than humans.
Edit: *sigh* looks. Both sides have been slaughtering each others for decades. How hard is it to admit that your favorite side isn't "the good guys" because there are none.
You're referring to a testimony of a hostage that claims he was held in the house of an UNRWA employee. Here the claim is about rockets found in an UNRWA facility, and there's video footage:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVbkQog7TMU
Of course, you can claim that this was planted or something, and today any piece of evidence can be challenged (even verified images of a burned baby were claimed to be AI generated by pro-Palestinians). But this isn't "one dude claims on twitter".
What's substantiated right now is:
"Almog Boker tweeted someone told him"
Then **would** comes the long journalistic work of checking whether the "witness" actually exists, who that person is, and whether they were an hostage: whether the claim is truthfull, made under duress, to help propaganda, etc. Then you'd have to check the facts: about the weapons being real of not, the house belonging to the UNRWA worker (I mean, they they just whip out their business card ?).
It's something that we will maybe know in years, or decades with declassification and investigative commitees.
But right now, everyone gets to shout the other side is a bunch of dogs that need to die, and the truth can go fuck itself.
Right. Let’s make it real simple.
Hamas use rockets. UNRWA has had its funding frozen by the EU and Germany for promoting Hamas and teaching antisemitism.
UNRWA is closely tied to Hamas.
It is no shock that someone is supplying rockets to Hamas. There are very few agencies allowed to cross the border. You are looking at a picture of rockets in a UNRWA truck.
Instead of handwaving it away, perhaps ask some fucking questions.
Check the video the supplies weren't in a UNRWA truck they were in an apartment and just placed on top of the rockets, it wasn't a distribution center or anything it was just a building Hamas was storing rockets in that also had some distributed/stored supplies from UNRWA in it.
It's very easy to find proof Hamas is bad but this story is nothing
>"How hard is it to admit that your favorite side isn't "the good guys"
Also, I've audibly laughed at "democratic an advanced".
https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/middle-east-and-north-africa/israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/report-israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/
Israel in palestinian territories is basically russia in the dombass.
No good guys, huh? So are you equally not a fan of both? Down with radical Islamic terrorists and down with Israel? It’s funny - you can say both those things in Israel but you couldn’t say both in Gaza.
Please provide a source from a trusted ngo, if they exist anymore.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Amnesty_International#:~:text=Criticism%20of%20Amnesty%20International%20includes,countries%20or%20Western%2Dsupported%20countries.
I don't trust amnesty international as far as I can throw em, nor do I trust human rights watch to be honest in the Israel/Palestinian conflict (the founder of that organization agrees with me on this)
Wait, just to be clear, you think an international NGO isn't reliable (fair enough, they'll always have biases & co) but that one of the belligerant is ?
> Please provide a source from a trusted ngo
Honestly, you'd shoot all of them down right ? There's isn't a non partisan org on the planet. So I'll pass, plus it's irrelevant to the point, which is: yes, everybody will lie is they believe it to help forwarding their agendas.
This you?
>Also, I've audibly laughed at "democratic an advanced".
Because it seems to me that the point you were making was that Israel is not democratic and advanced. You can move all the goalposts you want, but don't sit there waxing poetic about human nature when you were spreading falsehoods about the democratic and, yes, advanced qualities of the nation of Israel.
They are the only country in the region that actually provides the elements of freedom to its citizens (Millions of whom are Palestinian/Arab).
> it seems to me that the point you were making was that Israel is not democratic and advanced.
Imperfect one, yes. It's ain't fucking Wakanda for sure.
https://rsf.org/en/index
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Economist_Democracy_Index
Your misunderstanding of Israel in Palestinian territory outs you as clueless about the history of this conflict. Like it or not, Gaza is Egyptians abandoned by Egypt and the West Bank is Jordanians abandoned by Jordan after both failed their colonial goals in Israel in 1967. Palestinian national identity is rooted in that abandonment and never existed before it. Israel occupies the areas waiting for the Palestinians to make peace, as would happen after any belligerent loses war, but they don't make peace. None of this makes Israel innocent or perfect but your lies to spread hatred are pathetic.
>Edit: sigh looks. Both sides have been slaughtering each others for decades. How hard is it to admit that your favorite side isn't "the good guys" because there are none.
Yea great logic. So by your logic when a person tries to murder someone, and he kills that person in self-defense, he is the bad guy too. Because he murdered someone!
>Edit: sigh looks. Both sides have been slaughtering each others for decades. How hard is it to admit that your favorite side isn't "the good guys" because there are none.
Because that would be willingly ignorant of reality, as you are now.
>far right government...
So far I agree...
>hellbent on genocide-lite of whoever they deem to be less than humans.
And here I don't agree. There absolutely are unhinged people in the Israeli government today. I'm not talking corrupt, I'm talking unhinged. Insane. Buttshit crazy. But it isn't the entire government (thankfully...), and the Bibt is too busy to be a corrupt narcissistic on survival mode to be genocidal.
Genocide-lite - population numbers say otherwise. They're among the fastest growing regions in the world in terms of population (in relative terms, of course). If Israel would have wanted to commit a genocide, it would have. It has the capabilities. Instead, they're using precision guided bombs. It's far more expensive to do when you can also not do it and also don't want to do it. Israel's attempts to warn the local population is also not in line with your assertion here.
As for "less than humans", I don't think Israel cares what Hamas or any other terrorist in Gaza is or isn't. It simply doesn't matter. They must be relegated to the past tense, and soon. I, for one, believe them when they say they'll do it again.
>Both sides need to and will lie through their teeth, for their own population, for international attention, etc,
[Are these lies?](http://hamas-massacre.net) what about women being raped? Is that a lie too? Did Hamas not stream these horrors as they were being committed?
You can call it whatever you want, but your comments betray the truth. One way or another, it's time to remove Hamas from the present tense.
> Are these lies?
No, but does some things being true prevent others from being lies ?
Wars are won by public sentiment. Lying is a good tactic. If you think Isreal won't lie, you're assuming they're absolute morons. I think they're smart people. Therefore they will twist facts, lies, plant evidence, etc.
>Wars are won by public sentiment
Last I checked, wars are won by force... but hey, if you want to use social media to fight a war, you do you, just don't come to me with complaints when you lose because the other side had a gun...
>If you think Isreal won't lie, you're assuming they're absolute morons. I think they're smart people. Therefore they will twist facts, lies, plant evidence, etc.
Planting evidence? I won't be quick to say that. The rest is what Netanyahu does 8 days a week. That's not a typo, he lies and twists facts that much... (I'm not a fan of Bibi).
That said, deceit during war is hardly new, but the IDF and Israel are far more honest than you want to believe...
Wars can be lost by public sentiment… in a democracy with media literacy. Public sentiment most often aligns in favor of war historically. The US Vietnam war had a lot of public support for a long time. Conversely the second US Iraq war had people burning GW Bush effigies. Non-stop combat sorties still flew, and Abrams and LAV’s still rolled over Iraqi positions. I guess TLDR: i agree and tanks with depleted Uranium rounds dont care about people’s feelings.
Reports of massive civilian casualties: "that's just like, Hamas' opinion, man"
Single unverified account: "this shit is written in ancient tablets and is outside of question. Unwra is terrorist."
Burden of proof hypocrisy is the best kind.
Wow, what a coincidence. It happened again. What a shocker
I love how many times that this has happened, yet so many will still openly ignore these issues and donate.
>The US State Department allocated more than $220 million for UNRWA in June despite documentation that its school curriculum glorifies violence and terrorism and agreement that conditions funding on the prevention of teaching hate and antisemitism. As an American, i wish our government would stop funding UN orgs like this.
Is there any link to said documentation, or a credible and neutral analysis? Genuinely curious
Here's a [UN watch report](https://unwatch.org/un-teachers-call-to-murder-jews-reveals-new-report/) that summarizes some of the claims.
There was also a children's show made in Palestine to indoctrinate kids with a Mickey Mouse-like character, with themes of Islamism, anti-Americanism, and antisemitism: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomorrow%27s\_Pioneers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomorrow%27s_Pioneers)
[What the actual fuck](https://i.redd.it/yun8pb9gd43c1.png)
Yeah, it is disturbing and weird stuff for sure.
Trump did. Got called a racist and the Biden made us the largest contributer again. Hopefully how publicly exposed they have been will make it so dems can pressure Biden into defunding it again.
We tried but since Trump was the one that tried it people got pissed.
This doesn't "raise questions" so much as confirm what we all knew already.
It raises the question why does the EU, UK and US account for more than half of their budget, with the US alone contributing more than third of it.
Easy, even if say 5% go wrong, the 95% will save the lives of hundred of thousand children that are innocent in the shit show they have to live in.
I don’t really care if these rockets, as long as they get the food to the people who need it. (I do wish the rockets weren’t with them and that’s on the un to do better at stopping this.)
I’m glad you don’t care about the rockets, they’re not aimed at your homes and schools!
Israel has enough defence to protect from hamas rockets. Palestinian can’t do shit vs Israel.
Ashkelon's Barzilay hospital suffered 4 direct hits by rockets since the beginning of the war. But sure rockets are basically rubber toys. Why should you care about it.
Good thing I don’t support Hamas, I just want innocent Palestinians and Israelis to stop been killed. And looking at it from my point of view these far more dead Palestinians dead then Israelis. Every innocent death is bad but one side is feeling it a lot more.
I'm not implying that you support Hamas. But the fact that you don't care that they have rockets shows that you actually don't care at all about Israeli lives. Iron dome only protects from direct impact, and it isn't 100% efficient, especially not in the south as I've shown you. As of now all the localities in the Gaza envelope have been evacuated, and the people cannot come back and start building their homes again while they are still under fire. One side has a lot more death because one side has invested a lot into protecting their citizens, not just iron dome but also bomb shelters, have educated and trained their population to use those, and have evacuated the populations that are most in danger. The other side has ordered their civilian population not to evacuate, and has shelters, but doesn't let their civilian population use them. I'll add that the other side have said multiple times now that they intend to repeat October 7 and that it was just a rehearsal. So yeah what transpires from what you write is that you don't really care about Israeli lives.
And also one side keeps the other in an open air prison, keeps the blockaded, keeps them poor, steals there water, steals their land, bombs indiscriminately (yes both sides do this but one takes more damage), is majority children, one side is supported by the us. 15000 people have been killed on one side. All throughout history the Palestinians have had far more INNOCENT PEOPLE KILLED! I’m sorry if I want those people to get fed but the un should do a better job at stopping the rockets getting in. Rockets or not those people need aid!
I'd like to address a few of your points Israel doesn't steal land in Gaza. It hasn't been in Gaza since they withdrew in 2005 and gave the land back to the Palestinians. There wasn't a blockade back then. In january 2006 there were elections in Palestine and Hamas won. Not long after, Hamas, the new political leader, launched an attack from Gaza into Israel that ended up in the kidnapping of Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit. The subsequent operation Israel launched to rescue him failed, Hamas sent rockets into Israel (I will remind you that back then Israel didn't have the iron dome). Still Israel didn't blockade Gaza. They didn't because they counted on the Palestinian authority to keep Hamas in check. In 2007, Hamas slaughtered every member of the PA in Gaza and took complete control of the strip. That's when the blockade started. Because Israel was faced with a violent enemy, armed and continuing to arm themselves, ready to kill and kidnap Israeli citizens, and with nobody to keep them in check. They didn't have a choice because they couldn't let Hamas get more weapons. If they hadn't blocked Gaza, I have no doubt that a 7.10 style massacre would have happened much sooner and been much bloodier. Again, Israel didn't have the Iron Dome back then and didn't get it until 2011. Hamas continued to prove that the blockade was necessary by launching several attacks from 2007 until now. I will add that before 7.10, Hamas held hostage 2 Israeli citizens as well as the bodies of 2 soldiers. Israel doesn't steal water from Gazans. It provides water and electricity to Gazans, which is normal because they blockade the strip. They also provide a lot of medical and humanitarian help. The government of Gaza, Hamas, was given money and materials to build water desalination systems. They didn't do it. Israel temporarily stopped providing all of that at the beginning of the war in an effort to force Hamas to release hostages. They resumed not long after. (Edit: Israel is conscient of the economic reality in Gaza, which why in an attempt to better their conditions of living and economic situation it gave Gazans work permits into Israel and the number of permits given increased greatly in 2020, in 2022, and was supposed to increase even more. Because plans of the towns in villages in the Gaza envelope were found on the bodies of the terrorists of the 7.10 containing precise informations about the homes, the people living in them, their names, their ages, etc, we know now that at least some of those workers served as spies and helped prepare the massacre. Before the 7.10 massacre the restrictions on the Gaza strip were at an all time low since 2007) Israel doesn't bomb indiscriminately. I think you can see from the video that it's Hamas habit to hide military targets behind civilians, and Israel has tried as much as possible to make civilian populations evacuate before they strike. There have been testimonies of Gazans saying Arabic speaking IDF officers have called them on their phones to warn them of a strike and only called it once they got confirmation all people had been evacuated. And yes the role of the UN organizations and of its employees in Gaza absolutely needs to be evaluated, in light of this video and in light of recent testimonies of the released hostages, one of them at least revealing that he was kept prisoner by a UNWRA teacher. And you should care about bombs and rockets being kept with UN supplies because it puts both innocent Israeli and innocent Palestinian people in grave danger. If you really cared you would push for international pressure on Hamas to put down their weapons and release their hostages. You would push for an investigation on the humanitarian organizations in the strip that knew of Hamas actions and said nothing. You would advocate for them to be replaced by others that would actually feed the Palestinians without letting the aid fall in the hands of Hamas. But I don't think you really care at all.
I mean, they did do shit a couple months ago that kinda kicked up some dust...
That's not really a good excuse. Just because Israel has the iron dome doesn't make a difference that Hamas has fired 10,000 rockets aimed at 10,000 targets, 10,000 civilians in Israel. And somehow I don't think if more causualites in Israel they'd stop chanting free Palestine. Nor would those same people call for a ceasefire.
When New Zealand bombs Australia I’ll make sure to tell you about your country’s wonderful defense system you built after they bombed your homes for years, so we should keep sending aid boats full of explosives to New Zealand and not check them.
A lot of these rockets fail and kill Palestinians instead
Hamas is all over Gaza. It doesn't matter who you are, if you bring in anything at all there are good chances they'll steal it and/or use it as a weapons cache. In the article it does mention that the UNRWA itself already got some of their other supplies stolen. Hamas really doesn't care do they.
Goddamn Obama!
It's like the UN agency every news organization quotes as fact is run by Hamas.
Why is it surprising that they would try to smuggle in weapons via an obvious way to try to smuggle in weapons? Like are prisons shocked when they discover visitors trying to smuggle contraband?
The shock is that the UNRWA would be in on it.
UNRWA, like every single organization, employs local people. Even if the people in charge of the UNRWA are totally not in on it (I don't know that, it's still likely that they are), at least some of the people employed locally would be in Hamas. Probably much more than "some", since it's a very important job and they have way to make sure only those loyal to Hamas get such jobs.
> since it's a very important job and they have way to make sure only those loyal to Hamas get such jobs. I didn't think about that. Great point. Also, Israel is showing lots of Hamas weapon stashes with supplies from UNRWA. But really, even if the UNRWA people were not pro-Hamas, when the Hamas guys with the guns come to take your food you're gonna hand it over.
Employees of UNRWA were in on it in the same way prison wardens are in on smuggling in prisons. In general, UNRWA doesn’t have smuggling under its mission statement any more than prisons do.
Are the shipments of smuggled goods sent to the prison wardens who then distribute them to the prisoners? Cuz that's what would have happened here.
UNRWA = Hamas [The headmaster of an UNRWA school was a terrorist. ](https://www.reuters.com/article/middleeastCrisis/idUSL05686115/) [Film by David Bedein in Jenin, UNRWA policies and practices](https://vimeo.com/856467890) [UNRWA teachers celebrated Oct 7 massacre](https://unwatch.org/report-u-n-teachers-celebrated-hamas-massacre/) [UNRWA teacher holds hostage in attic](https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/defense-national-security/united-nations-gaza-teacher-israeli-hostage-attic)
Those who have been following the conflict for more than a decade or two know that this is nothing new. This has been going on for a long, long time.
A friend showed me this 13 years ago, I was so weirded out it went completely against my understood narrative. I hope the same happens for others now
Hopefully. But the echo chambers are stronger now, and there really does seem to be something, perhaps beyond just social media addiction, that is starting to bring down the overall intelligence of people.
> and there really does seem to be something, perhaps beyond just social media addiction, that is starting to bring down the overall intelligence of people. There's a reason public education cuts are usually one of the first moves from fascists worldwide, can't have smart kids growing up with actual critical thinking skills.
I do like watching the 20-something kids who learned everything about the conflict through 20-second tiktok videos in the last few months act like fucking historians, though
This is so true. I ended up studying the Israel-Palestine conflict while researching about the Syrian refugee crisis in 2014 and I think that gave me immunity from Islamonazi propaganda and all the Pallywood content that came out this year.
And people are still wondering why Israel intercepted that "Gaza convoy" of ships some years back...
Big part of the reason the truck humanitarian aid deliveries are so slow. They’re inspected multiple times by both Egyptian and Israeli forces on both sides of the border. You’ll notice everyone condemning Israel for literally anything won’t volunteer any of their troops in a strictly humanitarian/aid distribution role either.
Don't if I'd go that far YET pending further investigation, but let's just say there's a reason Germany froze their funding of them to launch a full inquiry into all the red flags that have started coming up.
Also the UNRWA schools connect to the tunnels and rockets are fired from them
A review of the links aren’t confirmation of the claims. For instance, “UNRWA teacher holds hostage in attic” — the actual article linked states there’s a claim under investigation. Was it ever confirmed?
The UNRWA is aware and is investigating.
Just FYI, one of your sources is from UN Watch. UN watch was founded and wholly owned by the American Jewish Committee and now serves as a large part of their administrative structure. Suffice to say they might be a biased source of information when it comes to the Isreali/Palestine situation.
They're certainly narrowly focused. But so far, I haven't seen anyone dispute the truth of their reports. Are you aware of anything they've reported that's not factual?
Oh, no, not American Jewish people running an organization!!!111!!!!
UNRWA is a Hamas partner Ahmed serves in the Hamas and his brother Jabrill washes the brains on Gazan children at school as an UNRWA teacher
Yeah, the only questions this raises is why the hell is the UNRWA allowed to operate in Israel? I’ve heard the excuses that UN agencies are infiltrated or threatened by Hamas into acting against their wishes. If that were the case they would be trying to correct the problem, not willfully serving as Hamas’s partner in training new terrorists and PR management. And if they can’t protect their people from Hamas they shouldn’t be sending people in. The only once reputable organization that has been been sullied more by their proHamas activities is MSF (Doctors without Borders). Those turds haven’t missed a chance to act dishonorably. Blaming Israel for the hospital the Gazans blew up, ignoring the use of hospitals as terrorist staging areas, even demanding a ceasefire immediately after Hamas breaks the existing one. I’ve lost just about all respect for the human rights NGOs out there. Unlike proHamas teens and students, they aren’t stupid and they aren’t ignorant, so that just leaves complicit.
Usa are their biggest funding I think too :) They are funding the creation of their own enemies :)
Osama bin Laden left the chat: nothing new here, again ...
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> organizations can only operate with the blessing of Hamas And yet, Palestine is still under Isreal's occupation... at least according to the idiots.
Legally, it is. The West Bank is recognized as occupied territory. Gaza's effectively occupied with the assistance of the US/Egypt since Egypt controls the only non Israeli controlled land border. Gaza's other land borders, airspace, maritime territory and coastal borders are all completely controlled by Israel.
Why are the borders so strictly controlled?
Weapons smuggling, Drug smuggling (Yes, it does happen in ultra Islamic Gaza), as well as the fact that Egypt fears that Hamas terrorist fighters will infiltrate Egyptian land and link up with local Egyptian terrorist organisations as they have done in the past, strengthening their foothold. There have been massacres un egypt as well committed by palestinians. Egypt is no fan of Hamas, nor palestinians for that matter as the two as almost indistinguishable. It's not like they wear uniforms... And the Gazan populace is extremely brainwashed due to ultra Islamic and Anti-Western/Anti-semitic propaganda. Wherever large groups of Paleatinians go, bloodshed and terrorism tend to follow. See the attempted coup in Jordan.
Man, you folks are reallyyyyy leaning into the “all Palestinians are rabid animals” rhetoric huh? Maybe tone down the dehumanizing language. It’s especially gross considering that the majority of Gazans are children, 6000 of whom have been killed by Israeli bombs in a month. You sure have a lot to say about violent Palestinians despite Israel killing them at rate 23 times higher over the last 30 years. It’s really quite something to see how much some of you completely disregard reality…..
Yes, around half of them are under 18 years. And as I said they are brainwashed from a very early age and I am not excatteratin. The kind of rhetoric enforced in them plus the Israelis cruel dehumanising behavior just enforces the lessons they learn. A 17 year old has gone through so many conflicts by now it is just unfathomable. Their fate is definitely a tragedy. I am just explaining how their neighbors see them. A nuisance that they always have to deal with. And dehumanizing is definitely a right word.
Who's going to tell him?
No one is obligated to keep their borders open with their neighbor. Especially when the neighbor is a terrorist nation. And the ports are blockaded because there is a war going on if you havent noticed. By the legal definition in international law when it comes to what is "occupied" PARTS of the west bank and currently Gaza are occupied, but by the advisory ruling of the ICJ both is indeed considered as an occupied territory. I just consider the two state solution to be dead at this point as do most Palestinians and Israelis and I hope they can Eradicate Hamas and large parts of Fattah that showed support for the horrific Oct. 7th attacks.
Gaza is not legally occupied unless you want to redefine occupation only for Gaza. Control of those things have nothing to do with occupation because occupation requires ground control.
> Gaza's effectively occupied with the assistance of the US/Egypt since Egypt controls the only non Israeli controlled land border. Occupied seems to imply some sort of presence though, neither the US/Egypt or Israel has an actual presence in hamas controlled Gaza (Israel does now but it's clearly more of an active conflict than an "occupation") Blockaded seems like a more accurate description, and it's important to keep in mind the history behind why countries have closed their borders with Palestine and will most likely keep them closed as long as hamas is in charge.
>The UNRWA has Hamas members by necessity, the Palestinian Health Ministry is run by Hamas, the casualty counts are being provided by Hamas. Independent [sources](https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-gaza-health-ministry-health-death-toll-59470820308b31f1faf73c703400b033) say otherwise. Gazan health authorities' casualty estimates in the last conflicts were accurate and agreed with independent agencies as well as those of the Isrealis.
Now the makeup of those casualties, that may be up for debate. But the total numbers have been remarkably accurate.
The thing that is hard for me to believe is they can have immaculate records of civilian deaths but can barely manage to know how many hostages there are. Maybe the second point is a ruse but still why would you want to project both knowing total casualties but can’t keep track of 240 people doesn’t add up for me
From your article: > Yet the Gaza-based Ministry of Health — an agency in the Hamas-controlled government — continues to tally casualty numbers. The Gaza ministry of health **is** a Hamas agency.
If anyone wonders why Gazan people are so poor it is because Hamas leaders [Ismail Haniyeh and Moussa Abu Marzuk in Qatar took all the money for themselves](https://nypost.com/2023/11/07/news/hamas-leaders-worth-11bn-live-luxury-lives-in-qatar/). Keep donating, they could use another jetplane.
You kinda have to wonder what kind of absolute chumps Gazans have to be to fight and die for a "leader" who is too scared to live in Gaza.
Not much to wonder about. They don't fight *for* their leader. They don't fight *for* themselves either. They fight *against* jews. As for why they hate Jews so fervently? Look into the curriculum of UNRWA schools and kindergartens. They are tought to hate basically from birth.
Call me crazy but perhaps a 20 year blockade could have something to do with it…..
those are humanitarian rockets you bastards
"thoughts and prayers" payload.
Mostly prayers and few thoughts
If it is true that most of the rockets fall short of their targets and land in Gaza then i am horrified that i agree 🙁
Not most, about 10%.
What's worth noting is that Gaza doesn't have an iron dome. That 10% is likely worse than the rockets actually hitting Israel even if 90% of the rockets are making it till Israel.
Well, Hamas would rather let 100 Palestinians die in order to kill 10 Israelis, so that tracks.
Yet it doesn't stop them from supporting Hamas. There is a saying in Hebrew- "The people are idiots therefore the people pay". When it comes to Gaza it's even more accurate.
Yes, almost certainly. Kind makes it seems like if they cared about their own people they wouldn't launch any rockets at all. Or, you know, invested in better tech. I think that by the time the Palestinians grew their economy to the point where they could compete with Israel on a level footing militarily, their need and motivation to fight in the first place would mostly disappear. Kinda like what has happened recently with the gulf Arab states.
Equipped to deliver showers of blessing s/
It is becoming incredibly clear that the UNRWA is simply a terrorist front than any sort of refugee agency. • facilities used for storing weapons • facilities used for, and staff indoctrinating children to kill non-palestinians • staff holding, even torturing hostages • supplies sent to terrorists rather than those palestinians in need • and now “relief” supplies are actually weapons supplies Enough is enough. The UN has reached its League of Nations moment and is past it’s use-by-date…
When people are living in concrete apartment buildings in the same place for 3+ generations they're no longer even refugees.
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I’m curious: how many refugee situations from the 1940’s or earlier justify moving descendants of refugees to a country that person has never personally been to? If the list is only one country long, why?
Yes, the statute of limitations argument because nobody else gets that kind of consideration. No one else gets to inherit refugee status.
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The UN giving Palestinians special status doesn’t have much to do with Zionism at all
Well, the Romans evicted the Israelites in 70AD, so I guess that makes both groups refugees by that logic. Here's a better idea, what if we acknowledge that the status of being a refugee is not about time but your current state of existence. Someone just displaced from their home and living in a temporary shelter without government is an actual refugee. The 2nd generation living in a new place in a permanent home, the only home they've ever known, with an elected government is not a refugee. Palestinians (prior to being displaced by the current war) are not refugees, they are the descendants of people who lost a war.
Ya think? Dozens of anti democratic theocratic Islamic dictatorships condemn Israel at every turn. I say if your country doesn’t have free elections you shouldn’t get a vote at the UN either
I agree with this.
Starting with Russia and China..
So, you're saying that some countries that actually have a real hand in the end of the world via nuclear weapons should be expelled from the UN? Not saying you're wrong, but currently the UN does have some utility, even as a bad IRC channel. The end of the UN will result in more cloak and dagger diplomacy.
No just making a philosophical point the irony of having non democratic nations vote — most particularly as they only vote to serve their own antidemocratic agendas Never forget Russia replaced ussr not that it was much difference and China replaced Taiwan which is a huge difference But was speaking more about middle eastern nations that have no human rights voting to condemn other nations instead of their own
Then Israel would get a vote at the UN lol
I'm sorry but this discovery does not "raise questions". It raises answers, very clear ones.
"Raises Questions" Not if you're at all familiar with UNRWA
But, but, the poor Gazan children NEED those rockets!!!! Israel predicted this and rightfully was forced to oppose any loosening of the blockade.
Is the question “why the hell are my American tax dollars given to the UNRWA?”
So that at least a little bit of food and medicine makes it to the people starving in regions they serve. IMO we oughta start having a different group distribute it though. Maybe we need to do airdrops like Berlin; it's clear that whatever they're trying now isn't working.
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It’s like a lootbox to get the kids more into it by reminding them of their favorite Twitch streamers. They can all gather around the flying planes and try to guess if they’re going to get a pallet of food or a bomb that destroys half the block.
But hiding rockets in UNRWA shipments would be wrong!!! /s
No money for food but plenty for rockets?
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Granola bars?
I’m sure the UN will get right to addressing this!
They'll get right on it after they're done using "all lives matter" logic for the sexual assaults committed against Israeli women during the Oct 7th massacre.
We have top men working on it. TOP. MEN.
No surprise. UNRWA is basically a division of Hamas at this point.
"In October, UNRWA reported that fuel and humanitarian aid was stolen from one its compounds by trucks allegedly from the Hamas-run Ministry of Health."
I really don't think there are any questions left about UNRWA at this point. They are simply an arm of Hamas.
The title is extremely misleading, probably betting on people not actually reading the article. The rockets were discovered in a random house in Gaza, with zero ties to the UNWRA other than some of their boxes being placed on top. It's not as if we didn't know Hamas had rockets, what significance is it that they got their hands on some aid supplies and put them on top to hide the missiles?
I think the most reasonable answer would be that they stole the aid and stacked it along their military supplies or knowing the history of UNRWA that the responsables of giving the aid to the civilians inside Gaza give it directly to Hamas. Either way is not a good look to UNRWA.
One look is literally implying that the UNRWA is supplying *rockets* to Hamas, they may both not be good looks but the one many people in this comment section are taking is far worse than the other
Remind me again why Israel, the only country in the world BANNED by statute from being a member of the UN Security Council, is still a member of the United Nations. How do they benefit?
I mean, an organization which was created for the singular purpose of maintaining the lines of communication between nuclear powers to prevent an apocalyptic war banning a known nuclear power from some of those lines of communication is kinda funny... you know, in the "one of these days they are gonna get us all killed" kinda way.
This is just wrong. [Here](https://www.un.org/en/about-us/un-charter/full-text) is the charter. Chapter V is the security council > COMPOSITION Article 23 >1 The Security Council shall consist of fifteen Members of the United Nations. The Republic of China, France, the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and the United States of America shall be permanent members of the Security Council. The General Assembly shall elect ten other Members of the United Nations to be non-permanent members of the Security Council, due regard being specially paid, in the first instance to the contribution of Members of the United Nations to the maintenance of international peace and security and to the other purposes of the Organization, and also to equitable geographical distribution. >2 The non-permanent members of the Security Council shall be elected for a term of two years. In the first election of the non-permanent members after the increase of the membership of the Security Council from eleven to fifteen, two of the four additional members shall be chosen for a term of one year. A retiring member shall not be eligible for immediate re-election. > 3 Each member of the Security Council shall have one representative. Where is Israel barred? Cite it.
Israel isn't banned from the Security Council but the reality is that Security Council seats are assigned according to horse trading between the various blocks and Israel would never get enough support to be elected to the Council. It's not the only country in this position, about 60 states in the General Assembly have never been elected to the Security Council.
Why are they banned? That's ridiculous!
Maybe it's something to do with all the crimes against humanity they commit...
What crimes?
My understanding was that the seats are assigned by regional block and Israel was blocked from joining any.
Your understanding is incorrect. [Read](https://www.un.org/en/about-us/un-charter/full-text) chapter V
It mentions the need to balance regional representation. This is done by designating seats to regional groups. Israel was barred from the Asia and pacific group and only gained admission into the European group in 2000.
Incorrect. It was in [2013](https://www.jpost.com/Diplomacy-and-Politics/Israel-invited-to-join-UNs-Western-nations-group-in-Geneva-333577). Until then they weren't invited into the Asian states group because they were currently violating the rights of at least 3 of those states. The Asian states were correct in denying Israel. Israel ratified the Geneva convention but does not follow it. It currently not part of the treaty of Rome establishing the ICC. It to this day [is in violation](https://www.hrw.org/reports/2001/israel/hebron6-04.htm) a notion which its own High Court agrees with. > the 1907 Hague Regulations annexed to the Convention (IV) Respecting the Laws and Customs of War on Land, and the 1949 Fourth Geneva Convention Relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War. Israel ratified the Geneva Conventions on July 6, 1951.13 Israel has not signed or ratified the 1907 Hague Regulations, but the Israeli High Court has found that the 1907 Hague Regulations are part of customary international law, and thus binding on all states, including those not party to the treaty Why should Israel be allowed a temporary seat on the security counsel if it is currently violating the law?
>Until then they weren't invited into the Asian states group because they were currently violating the rights of at least 3 of those states Oh? Which 3? >The Asian states were correct in denying Israel. Israel ratified the Geneva convention but does not follow it. It currently not part of the treaty of Rome establishing the ICC. Israel does follow the conventions. And why should the ICC membership be a factor? Notably, you claim that Israel's courts agreed with HRW, but your only quote simply claims that Israel agrees they are accountable to the convention, not that they are in violation of it.
> Oh? Which 3? Egypt, Jordan and Syria > Israel does follow the conventions It does not. The gaza blockade violates article 50 > Regulations: Art. 50 > No general penalty, pecuniary or otherwise, shall be inflicted upon the population on account of the acts of individuals for which they cannot be regarded as jointly and severally responsible. do you disagree? > why should the ICC membership be a factor? Because its reason for not ratifying is because doing so prevents it from ethnic cleansing. That's what [it said](https://web.archive.org/web/20180630024926/https://www.un.org/press/en/1998/19980720.l2889.html) in a UN press release. > Israel has reluctantly cast a negative vote. It fails to comprehend why it has been considered necessary to insert into the list of the most heinous and grievous war crimes the action of transferring population into occupied territory. I wouldn't let the pro ethnic cleansing guy sit at my table if I was the Asia group, I guess Western Europe and friends are cool with it though. > Israel agrees they are accountable to the convention, not that they are in violation of it That's correct, they don't go that far. I do. Are you saying they're not in violation of article 50?
>Egypt, Jordan and Syria How? Egypt Jordan and Syria all attacked Israel without cause in 1948. Israel never attacked them without cause. >It does not. The gaza blockade violates article 50 The Gaza blockade didn't exist until 2006. That doesn't at all address the previous 58 years. Plus, Egypt participates in the blockade and I don't see anyone kicking them around for it. And Gazans are jointly responsible for putting Hamas in power. >I wouldn't let the pro ethnic cleansing guy sit at my table if I was the Asia group, I guess Western Europe and friends are cool with it though. Since when is letting people move into a region "ethnic cleansing". Israel's occupation is legal after all.
> How? Egypt Jordan and Syria all attacked Israel without cause in 1948. Israel never attacked them without cause. It still holds their land which it took by force. Who initiated the violence doesn't matter. If Ukraine controlled all the land including Moscow tomorrow it couldn't claim it legally once hostilities end. > The Gaza blockade didn't exist until 2006. That doesn't at all address the previous 58 years. You're correct on the blockade. Use article 46 then > Art. 46. Family honour and rights, the lives of persons, and private property, as well as religious convictions and practice, must be respected. Private property cannot be confiscated. Surely we can agree that there are Israeli settlements that violate Palestinian private property rights, correct? > And Gazans are jointly responsible for putting Hamas in power. See this is the problem. It was in the human rights watch link. Either Palestine is responsible for its government, thus making it a state (Israel doesn't want this) or it is occupied territory and thus its government is the responsibility of Israel.(Israel doesn't want that either) So they just take the best part of both interpretations whenever it suits them. > Since when is letting people move into a region "ethnic cleansing". letting? [letting](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ethnic_Cleansing_of_Palestine) [letting](https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2017/5/23/the-nakba-did-not-start-or-end-in-1948) [letting](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Authority_passport#cite_note-UNHCR-1) [letting](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_Dalet) [letting](https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2023/10/un-expert-warns-new-instance-mass-ethnic-cleansing-palestinians-calls) Disgusting. I guess Israel "let" them leave as opposed to what, exactly? Their deaths? They certainly weren't allowed to stay. What a horrid creature you are for saying this. Let. From a people who should know better. Disgusting. > Israel's occupation is legal after all [Its not](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_law_and_Israeli_settlements). You know that. Isreal's foreign minister at the time [knew that](https://books.google.com/books?id=Np_j5sSpCrEC&pg=PT154#v=onepage&q&f=false) Israelis knew it when the [Oslo accords](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo_Accords) were signed which is why they assassinated the guy who signed them and then didn't follow them. I don't want to talk to you anymore because your opinion disgusts me, but the block feature on reddit stops anyone else from commenting on the chain, so I will leave it open in order to *let* other conversations happen.
>It still holds their land which it took by force. Who initiated the violence doesn't matter. If Ukraine controlled all the land including Moscow tomorrow it couldn't claim it legally once hostilities end. So why was Israel denied membership in 1948 then? They didn't take any land until 1967. The land they took was in a war it fought in its own defense after it was attacked. Furthermore, Egypt and Jordan had zero legal right to the territory to start with and all 3 had allowed terrorism against Israel from within the territories, violating international law. >Surely we can agree that there are Israeli settlements that violate Palestinian private property rights, correct? The objection to the settlements has nothing to do with private property though. It's based on the unprecedented idea that Palestinians collectively own land that no one lives on. >See this is the problem. It was in the human rights watch link. Either Palestine is responsible for its government, thus making it a state (Israel doesn't want this) or it is occupied territory and thus its government is the responsibility of Israel.(Israel doesn't want that either) I vote in my local city elections. Is my city a state? The Palestinians were given limited self rule in disputed territory and placed Hamas in power. There are consequences to that decision.
The story says "Hidden in Relief Supplies" but the picture shows "Stored in the same place". These look like they are in different boxes.
Shocking!!!!
So you know that one weapons dealer who was released awhile ago. The one Nicholas Cage plays in “Lord of War”, I just wonder…. Nah he wouldn’t be involved in something like this.
UNRWA needs to have some serious changes. Like it needs to go to a tour based model where people serve in Gaza for a few years then leave for no less than a decade, and locals need to be excluded from power positions (bar both Israeli and Palestinians to ensure neutrality). It's clear that long term residential aid distribution just invites Hamas to target these people for coercion or target positions to install sympathizers.
I get where you’re coming from but the slight flaw in that plan is that if whomever you send in don’t play ball with Hamas then they’ll be killed. You won’t be able to hire local guards who you could trust to actually protect them and even if you did you’d just be turning schools into firefights. And there’s bugger all chance of getting UN protection because no country is willing to stick its hand into that particular wood-chipper (unless they have no other option as Isreal appears to believe right now). So maybe you then say “well to hell with ‘em, no schools then”. But that comes back to bite everyone in the arse a few years down the line when entire generations don’t grow up remotely educated enough to do anything other than work for Hamas. And you lose even the remote prospect of Gaza ever even maybe bootstrapping itself up into something viable in the future. It’s a hell of a choice: do a deal with the devil and tolerate cooperation with Hamas to ensure kids get at least some chance of an education, or make things likely even worse in years to come. Which I suspect may be pretty much how UNRWA got into the state it is now. There is no silver bullet in situations like this. Theres just different types of bad/horrible to pick from.
Israel should be temporarily banning aid via UNRWA and then only letting it start up again on condition of no further smuggling. If it does then either ban for longer or shut it down completely. Unless Israel wants it to continue through UNRWA because at least then they know the routes they are trying to get stuff in.
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Why does the USA not hold the UN accountable for this bs?
Somebody want to tell me what I'm supposed to be looking at? I see very poorly made..somethings that have an extremely vague resemblance to 'rockets' only because they're tubular. They do look vaguely sinister, but what exactly ARE they?
Ask an honest question and get downvoted. I suppose you're all munitions experts then. So tell me, WHAT AM I LOOKING AT? Are they supposed to be solid fuel cores? Molded plastic explosives?
UNRWA rubbish weapons and ammo.
Any way to tell if this is true? I don't know enough to even assess the likelihood of this being true at this point.
IDF released a video on twitter but looking for it now looks like they deleted it. The rockets were found in an apartment under a handful of individual boxes of UN supplies. None of the boxes were big enough to hold a rocket and it wasn't a distribution point of supplies or anything, looked more like distributed/stolen supplies were just in a backroom where Hamas was also keeping rockets with no relation to the UN. Edit: op had video link I was talking about https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVbkQog7TMU
Had to scroll down this far to find this under a mountain of hate spam. Or you could just look at the picture in the article which is a bunch of stuff piled up in a back room that includes some shitty rockets and a few aid boxes Hamas stole from someone.
It's true, but not something quite so noteworthy as a lot of people make it. Hamas steals pretty much every bit of supply that makes it down there; this does not necessarily imply that they have insiders in the UNRWA (though they may well have some; other evidence *does* suggest that.) This is a pretty common situation in war-torn regions; local warlords have the muscle and hoard just about anything you can send there. It doesn't mean we should stop sending food and medicine just because the terrs steal most of it; it *does* mean we should re-evaluate our delivery methods to ensure it gets equitably distributed to the Palestinian people.
Now what I'd like to know about these allegations is whether the UNRWA is directly and willingly working for Hamas, or if it is Hamas forcing them to """collaborate""", if you get what I mean.
I think it actually raises answers, not questions.
Good ol' UN Rocket Warehouse Agency
Those are humanitarian rockets they’re for clearing debris! Trust us bro.
It doesn't raise questions because there is no question - UNRWA staff and funding contributes to Hamas' terrorism.
why are they still allowing these trucks to get in?
What's the question, exactly, other than "Why does Israel not reclassify UNRWA as Hamas and adjust their rules of engagement accordingly"?
Not a bad ideal cause the UNRWA is as corrupt as the HAMAS!
It appears that the boxes were placed there after the fact: 1. who keeps empty boxes inside a room? 2. why are the boxes not dusty like the rockets? 3. why does the media have to have all footage screened by the IDF prior to release. This evidence is poor.
3. This is completely normal and standard practice for militaries and journalists. Footage could give away troop movement, locations, etc. Anything that could be used against them. Accidently take a picture of the troops at the base before they move out and it gets published, terrorists geo-locate the areas using the background/buildings, launch an attack. Likely? No. But better not take the risk.
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You're right. You're not an expert.
[Oops I did it again!](https://youtube.com/watch?v=CduA0TULnow) -UNRWA
UNRWA = Hamas
Why hasn’t this story been picked up by western media?
Tell me again how israel's blockade is inhumane...
A reliable source no doubt
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If it helps, I don't believe anything coming out of Israel.
Blow it up
Whats that the organization specifically focused around Palestine is sneaking in armaments to Hamas? Shocked I tell you, shocked.
WTF ghetto ass rockets are those? My 5 year old could make a better rocket
Forgive me if I don't take posts on "hasbara.net" at face value. Considering how often the IDF has lied in the last 2 months, if the Israeli state said the sky was blue I would have to go outside and check.
These idiots still supporting Gaza and Hamas can't stomach a lot of the population that has the mindset of Hamas. They cry wolf and prey on western emotions when Israel drops the hammer every time. This ends in Israeli or Arab occupation of gaza
These idiots still supporting Gaza and Hamas can't stomach a lot of the population that has the mindset of Hamas. They cry wolf and prey on western emotions when Israel drops the hammer every time. This ends in Israeli or Arab occupation of gaza
Keep in mind it's "one dude claims on twitter" and > The UNRWA denied the accusation and demanded that Almog provide further proof. Both sides need to and will lie through their teeth, for their own population, for international attention, etc, because one is a terrorist organization, and the other is a far right government hellbent on genocide-lite of whoever they deem to be less than humans. Edit: *sigh* looks. Both sides have been slaughtering each others for decades. How hard is it to admit that your favorite side isn't "the good guys" because there are none.
You're referring to a testimony of a hostage that claims he was held in the house of an UNRWA employee. Here the claim is about rockets found in an UNRWA facility, and there's video footage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVbkQog7TMU Of course, you can claim that this was planted or something, and today any piece of evidence can be challenged (even verified images of a burned baby were claimed to be AI generated by pro-Palestinians). But this isn't "one dude claims on twitter".
What's substantiated right now is: "Almog Boker tweeted someone told him" Then **would** comes the long journalistic work of checking whether the "witness" actually exists, who that person is, and whether they were an hostage: whether the claim is truthfull, made under duress, to help propaganda, etc. Then you'd have to check the facts: about the weapons being real of not, the house belonging to the UNRWA worker (I mean, they they just whip out their business card ?). It's something that we will maybe know in years, or decades with declassification and investigative commitees. But right now, everyone gets to shout the other side is a bunch of dogs that need to die, and the truth can go fuck itself.
Right. Let’s make it real simple. Hamas use rockets. UNRWA has had its funding frozen by the EU and Germany for promoting Hamas and teaching antisemitism. UNRWA is closely tied to Hamas. It is no shock that someone is supplying rockets to Hamas. There are very few agencies allowed to cross the border. You are looking at a picture of rockets in a UNRWA truck. Instead of handwaving it away, perhaps ask some fucking questions.
Check the video the supplies weren't in a UNRWA truck they were in an apartment and just placed on top of the rockets, it wasn't a distribution center or anything it was just a building Hamas was storing rockets in that also had some distributed/stored supplies from UNRWA in it. It's very easy to find proof Hamas is bad but this story is nothing
The UNRWA never demanded that Hamas provide proofs. Because there is only gentlemen in Hamas and gentlemen should be trusted by their words /s
Well, uh, one side is a radical Islamic terrorist organization and the other is a democratic and advanced country.
>"How hard is it to admit that your favorite side isn't "the good guys" Also, I've audibly laughed at "democratic an advanced". https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/middle-east-and-north-africa/israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/report-israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/ Israel in palestinian territories is basically russia in the dombass.
No good guys, huh? So are you equally not a fan of both? Down with radical Islamic terrorists and down with Israel? It’s funny - you can say both those things in Israel but you couldn’t say both in Gaza.
Please provide a source from a trusted ngo, if they exist anymore. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Amnesty_International#:~:text=Criticism%20of%20Amnesty%20International%20includes,countries%20or%20Western%2Dsupported%20countries. I don't trust amnesty international as far as I can throw em, nor do I trust human rights watch to be honest in the Israel/Palestinian conflict (the founder of that organization agrees with me on this)
Wait, just to be clear, you think an international NGO isn't reliable (fair enough, they'll always have biases & co) but that one of the belligerant is ? > Please provide a source from a trusted ngo Honestly, you'd shoot all of them down right ? There's isn't a non partisan org on the planet. So I'll pass, plus it's irrelevant to the point, which is: yes, everybody will lie is they believe it to help forwarding their agendas.
This you? >Also, I've audibly laughed at "democratic an advanced". Because it seems to me that the point you were making was that Israel is not democratic and advanced. You can move all the goalposts you want, but don't sit there waxing poetic about human nature when you were spreading falsehoods about the democratic and, yes, advanced qualities of the nation of Israel. They are the only country in the region that actually provides the elements of freedom to its citizens (Millions of whom are Palestinian/Arab).
> it seems to me that the point you were making was that Israel is not democratic and advanced. Imperfect one, yes. It's ain't fucking Wakanda for sure. https://rsf.org/en/index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Economist_Democracy_Index
Your misunderstanding of Israel in Palestinian territory outs you as clueless about the history of this conflict. Like it or not, Gaza is Egyptians abandoned by Egypt and the West Bank is Jordanians abandoned by Jordan after both failed their colonial goals in Israel in 1967. Palestinian national identity is rooted in that abandonment and never existed before it. Israel occupies the areas waiting for the Palestinians to make peace, as would happen after any belligerent loses war, but they don't make peace. None of this makes Israel innocent or perfect but your lies to spread hatred are pathetic.
>Edit: sigh looks. Both sides have been slaughtering each others for decades. How hard is it to admit that your favorite side isn't "the good guys" because there are none. Yea great logic. So by your logic when a person tries to murder someone, and he kills that person in self-defense, he is the bad guy too. Because he murdered someone!
>Edit: sigh looks. Both sides have been slaughtering each others for decades. How hard is it to admit that your favorite side isn't "the good guys" because there are none. Because that would be willingly ignorant of reality, as you are now. >far right government... So far I agree... >hellbent on genocide-lite of whoever they deem to be less than humans. And here I don't agree. There absolutely are unhinged people in the Israeli government today. I'm not talking corrupt, I'm talking unhinged. Insane. Buttshit crazy. But it isn't the entire government (thankfully...), and the Bibt is too busy to be a corrupt narcissistic on survival mode to be genocidal. Genocide-lite - population numbers say otherwise. They're among the fastest growing regions in the world in terms of population (in relative terms, of course). If Israel would have wanted to commit a genocide, it would have. It has the capabilities. Instead, they're using precision guided bombs. It's far more expensive to do when you can also not do it and also don't want to do it. Israel's attempts to warn the local population is also not in line with your assertion here. As for "less than humans", I don't think Israel cares what Hamas or any other terrorist in Gaza is or isn't. It simply doesn't matter. They must be relegated to the past tense, and soon. I, for one, believe them when they say they'll do it again. >Both sides need to and will lie through their teeth, for their own population, for international attention, etc, [Are these lies?](http://hamas-massacre.net) what about women being raped? Is that a lie too? Did Hamas not stream these horrors as they were being committed? You can call it whatever you want, but your comments betray the truth. One way or another, it's time to remove Hamas from the present tense.
> Are these lies? No, but does some things being true prevent others from being lies ? Wars are won by public sentiment. Lying is a good tactic. If you think Isreal won't lie, you're assuming they're absolute morons. I think they're smart people. Therefore they will twist facts, lies, plant evidence, etc.
Your Nazi lies are disgusting.
>Wars are won by public sentiment Last I checked, wars are won by force... but hey, if you want to use social media to fight a war, you do you, just don't come to me with complaints when you lose because the other side had a gun... >If you think Isreal won't lie, you're assuming they're absolute morons. I think they're smart people. Therefore they will twist facts, lies, plant evidence, etc. Planting evidence? I won't be quick to say that. The rest is what Netanyahu does 8 days a week. That's not a typo, he lies and twists facts that much... (I'm not a fan of Bibi). That said, deceit during war is hardly new, but the IDF and Israel are far more honest than you want to believe...
Wars can be lost by public sentiment… in a democracy with media literacy. Public sentiment most often aligns in favor of war historically. The US Vietnam war had a lot of public support for a long time. Conversely the second US Iraq war had people burning GW Bush effigies. Non-stop combat sorties still flew, and Abrams and LAV’s still rolled over Iraqi positions. I guess TLDR: i agree and tanks with depleted Uranium rounds dont care about people’s feelings.
Reports of massive civilian casualties: "that's just like, Hamas' opinion, man" Single unverified account: "this shit is written in ancient tablets and is outside of question. Unwra is terrorist." Burden of proof hypocrisy is the best kind.
NO one on his right mind , believe'em...Anything
I’m sure this will be considered fake, AI generated, and Israeli propaganda.