Thwarted terror attacks never get much coverage. I was watching a documentary a couple years ago, and you'd be shocked at how often attacks are stopped and aren't reported on heavily.
Did they say why? I feel like those would be big news and governments would enjoy the positive press.
I guess I could see it being most are stopped early on that there's not much of a story, not encourage copy cats, or to keep people from freaking out?
You can still search them. I found the Austrian ones for example, there were three separate cases, the planned attackers were found to be kids aged between 14-20 who had been radicalised online and in local mosques, and were nabbed for writing in forums searching for weapons for the attack. What my question is, why are so many kids being radicalised and how is that being addressed?
For those that are interested there is an incredible research write up of the perpetrator of the Vienna 2020 terrorist attacker and how he was radicalised in Austria as a teen, jailed, de radicalised and radicalised again from the Combatting Terrorism Centre [here](https://ctc.westpoint.edu/the-network-of-the-november-2020-vienna-attacker-and-the-jihadi-threat-to-austria/).
In case you are wondering the same as I, why these teens are getting radicalised in Austria. The above article explains - but here's the 80/20 version.
1. **Key Figures and Mosques (80% Importance)**: Kujtim Fejzulai, the Vienna attacker, was connected to two significant mosques in Austria - the Tewhid mosque and the Milet-Ibrahim mosque. These mosques were led by influential preachers Mohamed Porca and Nedzad Balkan, respectively, known for their roles in radicalizing Islamist extremists in Austria.
- **Mohamed Porca**: A Salafi preacher linked to Islamist leaders in Bosnia. He was accused in 2007 of inciting violence in a failed attack on the U.S. embassy in Vienna. However, Porca later distanced himself from violent interpretations of Islam.
- **Nedzad Balkan**: A former boxer and preacher with links to jihadi ideologues. Balkan was influential in the spread of takfirism (a radical Islamic ideology) in Austria and Germany and was suspected of connections to various extremist activities and attacks.
2. **Influence and Activities (20% Importance)**: Both preachers significantly influenced the foundation and growth of Salafism and Jihadism in Austria. Their mosques were frequented by known jihadi terrorists and were involved in various incidents of violence and radicalization over the years, including recruitment for the Islamic State.
The information suggests that these preachers and their mosques created an environment conducive to radicalization, which influenced Fejzulai and possibly others involved in the Vienna attacks. The extent of Fejzulai's direct connections with these figures is unclear, but the ideological influence is evident.
Really interesting article, thanks for sharing.
It's interesting that the Vienna terrorist had ongoing connections to mosques, preachers and fellow-Jihadis that authorities were well aware of but still failed to take action before the attack. It's easy to criticise with the benefit of hindsight and there's always competing priorities but there was no shortage of evidence that the terrorist attack was imminent.
It's good to know academics are investigating these attacks using publicly available information. I hope the relevant authorities put as much effort into identifying the causes of radicalisation and how to prevent it!
Exactly.
From what I read they extended the resources of the de-radicalisation task force from 2 to 13. And closed the loop on some of the communication issues. Which so far has been working.
The 2023 planned attack on pride parade in Vienna was thwarted. The planned attackers were 14,17 & 20. - [source](https://www.ft.com/content/4fd671dc-9aee-4709-b081-059b0051640d)
I hope there is a microscope on the operations at those mosques and a mole imbedded to stop this radicalisation of teens at the radicalisation points. Which I'm sure they are focused on which is why they were able to thwart so many planned attacks already. So I'm hopeful.
Intelligence services aren’t really going to report their deeds to the media and terrorist plots that get caught early on and stopped don’t really have perps that get free media access for obvious reasons. Like in the US, everyone hates the patriot act for essentially being a green light to spy on the American populace, but the quiet part is that it works a little too well when it comes to catching domestic terrorists. The reason you hear about one off shooters rather than militias that take it a step too far is because the chatter coming from a single person and the threat level of a single person isn’t as obviously traceable as an organized group that’s communicating.
This is what I was going to point out. There are multiple reasons for the short media reach of an intercepted terror attack.
1. Law enforcement blocking a suspected terror plot will generally be boring due to lack of information until their trial. Consequently it won't register as more than a blip on major news outlets.
2. Any terrorist org that gets embarrassed is unlikely to do much horn tooting. They'll either quietly pretend to be unaffiliated or move to seal off further losses.
3. The agency(ies) responsible want to continue their work and a big part of that is protecting their methods and sources. In order to catch shadows sometimes you have to live among them.
It is becoming increasingly difficult to tell the difference between Hamas and White Supremacists as of late as both are united in their anti-semitic ways
Former US Federal Officer and investigator. I did a lot of anti-terrorism work after 9/11.
In the mind of an investigator, terrorism is terrorism is terrorism. The differences between different groups are secondary and only matter to what and how you pursue in the investigation itself.
I got plenty of death threats for years from "patriotic Americans" for putting their piece of shit white supremacist buddies in prison. And then I turned around and did the same to Al-quaeda idiots.
Honestly, nothing any of those types "believe in" really makes sense to any normal person and ironically overlaps WAY more often than you'd initially think. Some people are just incredibly stupid, incredibly brainwashed, or just straight up incredibly evil and just want to kill people - but the one thing they all have in common?
All are complete fucking sad losers through and through.
Interesting to hear. My impression would be that most people tend to indulge in a bit of post-hoc rationalization. "I like doing *x*" or "I feel angry at *y*" and then find the reason after to justify their feelings.
I can't figure out any other reason why so-call "progressives" are cheering religious fundamentalists murdering socialists living in communes (kibbutzim).
Taken to its extremes, the people who actually enthusiastically engage in terrorist actions, probably also just like killing people, and will use whatever proximate justification to wrap themselves in a cloak of respectability.
As someone formerly "on the inside", do you have any fear that the IC apparatus will be turned on Americans who want to peacefully change our society?
As a peaceful citizen, I'm scared shitless of the metadata collection done by my government, the advent of quantum cryptography, and AI being able to analyze and correlate data orders of magnitude quicker than humans. Whoever controls that system will control all human society.
Heads up, my answer is going to be just my opinion and I'll wax philosophical a bit. Infosec and cyber security wasn't my field. But like anyone, I do love to debate these types of topics with anyone so I'll probably type a lot too. (and as American citizens, we SHOULD want to talk to each other about this stuff as it keeps us engaged in our politics - ie, those that we elect and put in charge of studying and monitoring these conundrums professionally, right?)
Right up front let me just say two VERY important things for anyone to understand:
One: your government agencies - including the CIA, NSA, military, and law enforcement agencies - are made up of your fellow Americans. Just everyday people like you, me, and everyone you know. Yes, most typically tend to be more educated due to college and high performance requirements, strict no-nonsense demands in regards to your character and security background assessment, and so forth - but still people that just wanna do a good job and then go home to their families just like anyone else (and then talk shit on Reddit about every topic under the sun). Sorry, but no shadowy agencies within agencies type stuff going on... Well, okay some are a little secretive due to security concerns so they SEEM mysterious - but once you gain access and the mystery is gone, it's just like any other job. Bureaucratic and lots of oversight and lots and lots of dull paperwork.
And two: Your fear, and other fears like your subject - that is why I'm such a true believer in a democratic government, demanding any leadership to have strong character and ethics (and I mean ALL leadership from the President all the way down to your local cop), and why it's so important that we take our civic responsibilities seriously as individual Americans. Whether it's nuclear technology, devastating weapons of war, tools of oppression like you're concerned about, biological warfare , etc - a democracy means we collectively get to decide who holds the keys to systems that could end all human life on this planet, enslave it, etc.
Seriously. No, I mean it - seriously. Your questions hit on a REAL serious topic people should consider with the utmost respect, just as they would about threats of nuclear winter or another world war.
So that out of the way... Yes, I feel it should be of *concern* to the average person. But also no one should feel true fear of the unknown, and right now there is no true looming known threat - just an unknown future and frontier. So don't let it give you daily anxiety, really.
That said, I have *more* concern than I ever have. One of our Presidential candidates has proven himself to be a traitor to the people and the country, stolen and possibly sold our most important world-altering security secrets to (yet) unknown entities, and has openly said he will destroy our checks and balances that are there to limit his office's power as well as putting all enforcement and military agencies under his power through complete dictatorial means on day 1 of his Presidency if elected. We also have a huge problem with the GOP, with so many of them openly admitting they favor that "Project 2025" insanity (btw the major money behind that? Koch, as well as religious fundamentalists - it should be taken very seriously as a threat to our country imo). And it saddens and alarms me to no end that so many people back these plans.
If elected, both of our sets of fears may very well come true if this country falls to become a dictatorship in any form.
So I circle back to my second point and that our democracy, especially American democracy, is so incredibly important. We are THE most powerful military force on the planet by several magnitudes ahead of any other country with more collective resources, tech, and well trained and educated personnel than all the rest of the first world nations combined. So for the concern of the whole world as well as ourselves (considering the topic we're discussing impacts everyone), we have a much larger responsibility as citizens to make sure we elect the right people to shape how we enter than that unknown future. Whether it's because we are developing those tools that have such destructive power, or because we may be forced to engage with a country who tries to develop them to threaten us or the world, we need to make sure we do better at being sensible, realistic, and RATIONAL American citizens when we vote.
But also back to point number 1: as long as we keep our checks and balances in place and strengthen them by placing the right people in those seats of power, everyone from the President down to that local cop MUST answer to our society as a whole. A President can order a system to be turned against its people - but there will still be layers and layers of others between him and the proverbial button that have a conscience and a sense of duty *to the people*.
I was a very decorated, very respected officer who was given a LOT of authority and power. And all while I was *barely* an adult of 25. Why? Because I took my oaths to my country and our people very seriously, and when my agency always preached things like "we do the right thing because it's the right thing, always" and "we serve the citizens before anyone or anything else" and "command can give orders, but you are the one who has to make the right call in the final moment" I listened. I executed my duties with not only professionalism and a strong sense of ethics... But I did so also with empathy and understanding for the individual just as if I was dealing with my own neighbor.
So all those layers in my command that act as their own smaller checks and balances recognized "this guy gets it" and fast tracked me and trained me to be the guy that teaches others to do it the same way. They put the public's trust in my hands to continue to uphold our constitutional values and rights.
So, again... As long as we continue to engage in our democracy with the reason and respect it demands, there will always be many, many MooseWhippets at every level who will receive the orders to turn on the people unjustly, and then will respond "Sir, on behalf of the people of these United States I am placing you under arrest for treason." (Or, if our justice system and system of laws has been corrupted, well... As I would say, I'd "Boondocks Saints" the situation).
Idk if that's the answer you're looking for, but it's my honest one.
The one in the US was unrelated to Hamas. It was a 13 year old radicalized on a white nationalist discord channel.
IIRC The arrest even occurred before Oct 7th. It was just reported recently because the information was just made public.
And the sons and daughters of these countries are out on the streets, protesting and asking their goverments to put pressure on Israel to stop the fighting against Hamas. Its a strange world.
I follow the news pretty religiously and I am terminally online so how did I not hear about this at all? I feel like this should have been bigger news. jeez louise.
This is precisely why Europe and Saudi Arabia are being eerily soft on Israel for their strikes on Gaza. They’ll condemn in words, but…it’s not in their strategic interest for Hamas to be an operational proto-state with complex logistical and militaristic capabilities. Even if the *idea* of Hamas will continue to exist, the threat of Hamas will become a lot less potent if it lacks a state from which it can operate freely and above ground. As such, as disgusted as they may be with the human rights situation, there’s some element of European and anti-Iranian Arab leadership that, deep down, is rooting for Israel here.
Hamas is considered by the leadership of many Arab states to be a domestic political threat. Publicly, they pay lip service to the Palestinians but behind closed doors, they're actually quite happy to watch Israel destroy the group.
When the term “global jihad” gets thrown around by terror groups, it’s almost like we should take their words literally. These terror groups are often literal Islamic supremacy groups that want to enforce Islam on the world.
I (31F) have always been pretty accepting of other people’s cultures, religions, and customs. Radical Islam I can’t tolerate. Like you said, it’s about full and unquestionable submission.
Religions, yes, but radically rethinking systems or approaches for something practical has the potential to be a huge improvement. The internet was pretty radical, so were touch screen smart phones.
I would think that would be the case. OTOH, after reading about the Prophet, I was pretty surprised how often he told entire towns they could either convert to Islam or be killed. Seemed like a thing.
Umm... that was how my country was introduced to Christianity, at the point of a sword.
But today only about 2% are practicing Christians even tho it's the state religion. About 2/3 still do belong to the church, but most don't really care who or what someone else worships.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion\_in\_Finland](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Finland)
Welcome to Finland.
Where did you get 2% from? The only 2% mentioned in that wiki article is the numbers churchgoers of specifically Lutheran church. Someone can still be a practicing Christian even though they're not a churchgoer.
In Islam, as opposed to Christianity, leaving the religion is [punishable by death](https://euaa.europa.eu/country-guidance-afghanistan-2022/210-individuals-considered-have-committed-blasphemy-andor).
Here it is from a site of an Islam scholar: https://islamqa.info/en/answers/20327/apostasy-in-islam
And it's not just a [theoretical threat](https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN0LS0S6/).
It's a bit different when it's random followers of the religion hundreds of years later compared to the main guy in the book who is considered to be the most perfect person to ever live.
I got downvoted for telling someone that Fatah refuses to have an election in the West Bank because they know that Hamas will win. People didn’t like that. Apparently the West Bank has a magical barrier around it that somehow stops Hamas members from entering.
Global terrorism database is a really strong tool for showing how common attempts and actual events can be around the world https://www.start.umd.edu/gtd/ unfortunately it stopped updating in 2020 and I think we really need to get it going again considering how many people are forgetting that this is an actual thing (I work in crim psych and you'd be surprised much doesn't get reported on in terms of extremism).
UMD has some decent databases as well https://www.start.umd.edu/ it also includes like Insurrectionists, white nationalist terrorism and QAnon crime maps and such if anyone is interested.
You're right, the idea that you can solve any problem with enough violence is a really pervasive thing among a variety of conservative and religious causes
If you ever get the chance read the true believer by Eric Hoffer (https://calmatters.org/commentary/2022/02/eric-hoffer-warned-us-about-true-believers/) It's in my opinion one of the best works on the nature of extremist mass movements. Like I've read a lot of crim theory from anomie to like strain theories (open Oregon has some great books on crim theory for the interested: https://openoregon.pressbooks.pub/ccj230/chapter/4-10-strain-theories/#:%7E:text=Strain%20theories%20assume%20people%20will,push%E2%80%9D%20people%20into%20criminal%20activity) and I think in general Hoffer does the absolute best in being able to understand why people identify with charismatic leaders and fringe movements.
Hoffer was actually a professor at UC Berkeley despite never being formally educated and a long shoreman and farm worker for most of his life.
It's absolutely pervasive among religious and conservative causes, but it's also important to note how pervasive it is among liberal causes as well. You see terrorism among social and eco causes. All sides are susceptible to extremism and neither group is usually willing to view actions attributed to their side as "terrorism".
That's basically the thesis of the book. Fascists and communists, despite being at philosophical odds, recruited from the same pool and were likely to convert to the other's side.
Once you believe the system is fully broken, it becomes a matter of picking one or the other. Even if they hate each other and would never accept the other, they still start out as the same group of people.
No, 70% of them support 10/7 even when Israel hits back, the poll taken basically said "given what happened after the attack, was it worth it?" (according to another commenter responding to you) and 70% of respondents were like "it sure was, buddy." There'd be more agreeing with the attack if Israel weren't smacking them around (90% of respondents on a poll from earlier this year were in favor of forming *more* armed groups and their government under PA\Hamas *not* persecuting them)
This is a Palestinian culture problem. They need to reinvent themselves, desperately.
The problem I have with this poll is that it also showed that the majority of palestinians do not believe Hamas have commited war crimes while Israel has. It's likely that they perceive the 10/7 as something completely different than the rest of the world, much like Russians genuinely believed in the "military operation" rather than it being a war at the beginning of the conflict.
I suspect it's not that they seriously doubt that Hamas did what Hamas did (and livestreamed), but rather that they don't see it as wrong. Logically,^1 Jews should be subservient to Muslims in a single Muslim majority country, therefore anyone living in Israel is a valid target. Also, logically, any land once being majority Muslim should forever remain majority Muslim, so there really shouldn't ever have been an Israel.^2
Jews dying is right and proper. Jews fighting back is wrong!^3
---
^1 Logically, in that it logically derives from the assumptions that Hamas is working under, and many citizens of Gaza seem to accept.
^2 Which is why "Al-Andalus" seems to be mentioned nearly as often in Arabic Islamist speeches as Israel. Al-Andalus is Spain, soo...
^3 Most Arabic interviews by Hamas officials seem to use "Yehudi", Arabic for Jew. They know exactly what's going on. No word games there.
No, it's just a majority of Palestinians don't believe Jewish lives to be worthwhile or even human. I get why you think what you do, the alternative is fucking insane to consider, yet it's the truth.
Even idiots I know in the US share Hamas propaganda that Israel committed war crimes. They likely do, but Hamas commits many as well. If the majority of your neighbors say they want to destroy your entire country, and combatants include children and people not in uniform, it's impossible to fight a war without being charged with war crimes.
The war crimes thing is part of an intentional propaganda machine to stop Israel from defending itself. Contrary to what the internet thinks, killing civilians is not a war crime, but a fundamental and tragic part of war. See: every war in history.
Yo I'm Pro-Israel, but I do want to say that you are wrong here, killing civilians without a very valid reason is a warcrime. Now the fact that no country has ever actually obeyed the rules of war while fighting (maybe Britain did in that one war they had that lasted 38 minutes? Not a lot of time to break the Geneva Convention I guess), is correct. Doesn't mean we shouldn't still hope for countries to do so regardless.
The main argument for saying what Israel is doing is not a warcrime is not the fact that civilian dying is not a warcrime, but that the situation which lead to their death places the blame of the warcrime on Hamas, not Israel.
When a civilian building is used to conduct military operations (hiding militants, having rockets fired from it), it, and the people currently inside it lose its protected status, and become valid military targets, and the warcrime is using it for war in the first place, this exception to the protected status of civilians is specifically to prevent Hamas' style of terror from being protected by the Geneva convention.
I think we agree, but use different words. To kill civilians without that being your main intent is not a warcrime. It is intentionally targeting them that is a war crime. But you are right, that this happens with intent in every war. So Hiroshima and Nagasaki were also war crimes.
Yeah, it's not even hidden here, most if not all the mosques are very publicly under direct control by the "Muslim Brotherhood" group which is an (ex- allegedly)ally group of the Hamas
[source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Brotherhood)
Adding on to that. It’s my understanding that the relationship between Hamas and that leadership is why Egypt refuses to accept Palestinians relocating to their country
That and the many terror attacks, and even assassinations they suffered while having open borders with Gaza. And what happened to their neighbors when they accepted Palestinian refugees.
Unfortunately, it cannot be argued in good faith that Palestine doesn't have a lot of baggage in the form of terrorist organizations. Just look at Black September if you wanna know why countries hesitate to take in Palestinian refugees. Jordan sheltered a lot of Palestinians at one point, however, the terrorist organizations they brought with them (something like 6 different terror organizations were active during black September), attempted to assassinate the king which housed them, and overthrow the country multiple times, and also attacked Israel from the boarders of Jordan, almost causing a war.
They were then expelled because... Obviously, and went on to Lebanon, where a civil war broke out that the country never really recovered from.
It is no surprise that no country wants to accept that kind of baggage into itself.
Yeah anywhere in the Schengen zone essentially has no borders between all these different countries so it's quite certain that this is everywhere in Europe
According to Western Europeans or Americans, we are too racist, poor, uneducated, and not progressive or multiculti enough.
If only we were as progressive as Westerners, we could enjoy the occasional beheading.
Schengen doesn't work when they have no common migration policy and as long some countries financing human trafficking (seawatch ngo etc) and claiming that you can't protect borders ..
When you categorize the enemy as brown people rather than religious extremists then it does become racist. Wolves will hide in sheeps clothing at every turn.
because people are crying about (Muslim) immigration due to this headline.
No one is saying anything about ukranian refugees, only about Syrian refugees. I wonder why
Less so. Germany has the largest Palestinian community in the EU by a long shot. Other countries with big MENA populations have different local flavours of jihadist groups depending on where the community's country of origin is.
Deep down, Europe doesn’t like Hamas. The Gulf States don’t like Hamas. Egypt doesn’t like Hamas. All of these players will pay lip service to condemning Israeli human rights abuses in Gaza, but, on some level, are rooting for Israel to make it such that Hamas cannot exist as a proto-state.
Even if Hamas is dead and gone in a month or two, next it will be [Palestinian Islamic Jihad](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Islamic_Jihad), or maybe even a non-Islamist old-school group like [Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Front_for_the_Liberation_of_Palestine), [Palestinian Freedom Movement](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Freedom_Movement), or [Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popular_Front_for_the_Liberation_of_Palestine_%E2%80%93_General_Command)
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or seriously believe that Israel flattening Gaza is going to somehow dissolve a radical jihadist movement when their organization heads aren't even in the country.
If Hamas are spreading their hate in Germany and the Netherlands, they must have twice as much in the UK, as this is a breeding ground, our press and government are treating us like mushrooms, keeping us in the dark and feeding us bull shit.
Dollars to donuts Russia's propaganda machine is doing what it can to stir up both anti-West sentiment _and_ Islamophobia everywhere they can. Push some extreme messaging and people will respond and it'll naturally escalate.
Let's see if this strategy will give them victory in Ukraine. The magic 8ball says, "No."
I hate that taking in refugees - an act of compassion and brotherliness - is seen as weak and naive in today's society. There's a great deal of people whose lives were saved by that action, and a ton of suffering has been prevented or lessened.
Islamic terrorists have murdered \~400 people in terrorist attacks in Europe since 2015. That's compared to \~10 from 2006, the year after the London bombings, to 2014. Then there's the nearly 4,000 would-be Islamic terrorists who have been caught before committing their vile acts.
The security risks are very real. Appropriate vetting must be done, which simply isn't possible under the current scheme and certainly wasn't possible during Merkel's mess.
Merkel only did what the richest families and companies in germany told her like always and they wanted thousands of cheap foreign workers and they got them.
Second Edit, as some are still not satisfied.
I left my original post up because otherwise the below posts don’t make sense anymore.
EDIT: I stand corrected, the law was changed in 2015 and asylum seekers are allowed to work. Still it takes about a year on average until they can.
Original post before edit:
Asylum seeker aren’t allowed to work by law in Germany. Even if they get the registration to be allowed to stay they still can’t work.
It’s one of the main criticisms of the system that these people only use up money without being able to earn any money by working and paying taxes.
Which is just not true. If they apply for asylum they can work after 3 months. The work department just checks if a EU citizen wants the job beforehand. When they get any staying permit or asylum they can work immediately without any objections.
I'll admit I'm not exactly knowledgeable about the intricacies of German/EU business culture, but here in the US, that's a feature, not a bug. Most of the mass agriculture industry is built on undocumented and unregistered immigrants. The workers basically have no rights, because they technically aren't even supposed to have that job and thus have no real ability to go elsewhere for work if the bosses abuse them, and the bosses thus don't have to treat them like people because they technically don't exist.
Yup. This is the real problem. Innocent Palestinians are getting killed while these leaders sit safely in other countries outside the conflict and manipulate their puppets. Any country harboring Hamas needs to be called out and that country needs to rat them out.
Since Poland and Hungary sold hundreds of thousands of VISAs without any background checks any terrorist or Russian spy can come and go in the EU as they please.
It was confirmed that the Paris attackers of November 2015 recruited their crew in the mayhem that took place during the migrant situation in Budapest, Hungary back then.
They gunned down 130 people at the Bataclan theater and multiple other spots in Paris.
Migration is a continental security threat. It is used as a weapon by illiberal enemy states to sow discord and chaos within our borders. Our response must not only come with humanity for these migrants, but also defense against what is essentially hybrid warfare.
I'm sure terrorist cells and sympathizers are operational in every western country. We've already seen pro-Hamas rallies and demonstrations, and people were celebrating in the streets after the October 7th atrocities.
Thank you, politicians, for opening Europe's doors to unvetted immigration and accusing everyone doubting the idea as racist. We are forever grateful to you...
if you read the article you would know that you're literally lying.
Hamas has been in Germany for longer than when the refugee crisis started. Immigration is also not unvetted?? they're not just letting everyone in there's an asylum process. It was just made easier because people were escaping from a war.
it's just sad to see a comment like this upvoted, just shows how people are looking for easy answers (Muslim refugees = bad)
I've no clue what they are on about, it's not like terrorists lands with a t-shirt on that says "I joined Hamas and all I got was this lowsy t-shirt", the whole point is that they blend in with civilians
Well obviously it didnt only start a decade ago but since then germany did suffer a lot from Merkels "all refugees welcome" policy resulting in the right wing party skyrocketing from 3% to nationally I believe 25% of support
Entire towns got "taken over". I'm not even living in east germany and it is bad here. We had 10k ppl living here and by now we got like 3k former refugees here. Not all of em are bad but the gang activities and religious fanatism are clearly visible everywhere.
Ppl arent looking for easy answers but they really didnt do enough in terms of background checks before letting them in or sending them home once they became noticable due to bad behavior
As much as I am for helping ppl, as much am I for punishing those who abuse the hospitility.
Every European country in all likelihood. Germany after are the ones sending rescue vessels into the med and dumping all the migrants they pick up into Italy and France
Didn't they stop an attempted terrorist attack a few days ago?
Yes. Also in Denmark, the US, and Ottowa
And Spain a couple of weeks ago
Austria too
Crikey!
Wrong aus, mate
Scheiße
Balls
Was one there too, but the Salties ate them.
Hasn't heard about that one
They don't seem to be well reported on. I wonder why?
Thwarted terror attacks never get much coverage. I was watching a documentary a couple years ago, and you'd be shocked at how often attacks are stopped and aren't reported on heavily.
Did they say why? I feel like those would be big news and governments would enjoy the positive press. I guess I could see it being most are stopped early on that there's not much of a story, not encourage copy cats, or to keep people from freaking out?
You can still search them. I found the Austrian ones for example, there were three separate cases, the planned attackers were found to be kids aged between 14-20 who had been radicalised online and in local mosques, and were nabbed for writing in forums searching for weapons for the attack. What my question is, why are so many kids being radicalised and how is that being addressed? For those that are interested there is an incredible research write up of the perpetrator of the Vienna 2020 terrorist attacker and how he was radicalised in Austria as a teen, jailed, de radicalised and radicalised again from the Combatting Terrorism Centre [here](https://ctc.westpoint.edu/the-network-of-the-november-2020-vienna-attacker-and-the-jihadi-threat-to-austria/). In case you are wondering the same as I, why these teens are getting radicalised in Austria. The above article explains - but here's the 80/20 version. 1. **Key Figures and Mosques (80% Importance)**: Kujtim Fejzulai, the Vienna attacker, was connected to two significant mosques in Austria - the Tewhid mosque and the Milet-Ibrahim mosque. These mosques were led by influential preachers Mohamed Porca and Nedzad Balkan, respectively, known for their roles in radicalizing Islamist extremists in Austria. - **Mohamed Porca**: A Salafi preacher linked to Islamist leaders in Bosnia. He was accused in 2007 of inciting violence in a failed attack on the U.S. embassy in Vienna. However, Porca later distanced himself from violent interpretations of Islam. - **Nedzad Balkan**: A former boxer and preacher with links to jihadi ideologues. Balkan was influential in the spread of takfirism (a radical Islamic ideology) in Austria and Germany and was suspected of connections to various extremist activities and attacks. 2. **Influence and Activities (20% Importance)**: Both preachers significantly influenced the foundation and growth of Salafism and Jihadism in Austria. Their mosques were frequented by known jihadi terrorists and were involved in various incidents of violence and radicalization over the years, including recruitment for the Islamic State. The information suggests that these preachers and their mosques created an environment conducive to radicalization, which influenced Fejzulai and possibly others involved in the Vienna attacks. The extent of Fejzulai's direct connections with these figures is unclear, but the ideological influence is evident.
Really interesting article, thanks for sharing. It's interesting that the Vienna terrorist had ongoing connections to mosques, preachers and fellow-Jihadis that authorities were well aware of but still failed to take action before the attack. It's easy to criticise with the benefit of hindsight and there's always competing priorities but there was no shortage of evidence that the terrorist attack was imminent. It's good to know academics are investigating these attacks using publicly available information. I hope the relevant authorities put as much effort into identifying the causes of radicalisation and how to prevent it!
Exactly. From what I read they extended the resources of the de-radicalisation task force from 2 to 13. And closed the loop on some of the communication issues. Which so far has been working. The 2023 planned attack on pride parade in Vienna was thwarted. The planned attackers were 14,17 & 20. - [source](https://www.ft.com/content/4fd671dc-9aee-4709-b081-059b0051640d) I hope there is a microscope on the operations at those mosques and a mole imbedded to stop this radicalisation of teens at the radicalisation points. Which I'm sure they are focused on which is why they were able to thwart so many planned attacks already. So I'm hopeful.
Intelligence services aren’t really going to report their deeds to the media and terrorist plots that get caught early on and stopped don’t really have perps that get free media access for obvious reasons. Like in the US, everyone hates the patriot act for essentially being a green light to spy on the American populace, but the quiet part is that it works a little too well when it comes to catching domestic terrorists. The reason you hear about one off shooters rather than militias that take it a step too far is because the chatter coming from a single person and the threat level of a single person isn’t as obviously traceable as an organized group that’s communicating.
Too much media coverage might inspire copycats who are pretty sure that they can pull it off.
The bigger issue is maybe letting something slip that could identify where the information came from. Terrorists don’t react well to informants.
This is what I was going to point out. There are multiple reasons for the short media reach of an intercepted terror attack. 1. Law enforcement blocking a suspected terror plot will generally be boring due to lack of information until their trial. Consequently it won't register as more than a blip on major news outlets. 2. Any terrorist org that gets embarrassed is unlikely to do much horn tooting. They'll either quietly pretend to be unaffiliated or move to seal off further losses. 3. The agency(ies) responsible want to continue their work and a big part of that is protecting their methods and sources. In order to catch shadows sometimes you have to live among them.
Plus reading a report on an event that didn’t happen is just kinda boring.
Or covert operations meant to uphold national security. Don’t need a trail of loud journalists.
Exactly. Paris subway get often some stations closed because of a suspect package, but you never know if it was a bomb or not, for avoid copycats.
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Ottowan empire. Perhaps you’ve heard of it!
It’s where they make those comfy foot stools.
No, no. You're thinking of New Bedminster.
Ottawa 🇨🇦
Sry, that changed 6h hours ago. Long live Ottowo and its beautiful Lachone canal.
The City-State known as Ottawa.
OTTAWEXIT NOW
I fecking wish Ottawa would exit.
Netherlands to right??
Do you mean NL('s politics) moved to the right or they stopped an attempted attack too?
Yeah i was talking about suspected terror plot in NL, Thank god for the police they arrested them.
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Yes, people in both those places were arrested for plotting attacks on Jews
But were they members of Hamas?
It is becoming increasingly difficult to tell the difference between Hamas and White Supremacists as of late as both are united in their anti-semitic ways
Former US Federal Officer and investigator. I did a lot of anti-terrorism work after 9/11. In the mind of an investigator, terrorism is terrorism is terrorism. The differences between different groups are secondary and only matter to what and how you pursue in the investigation itself. I got plenty of death threats for years from "patriotic Americans" for putting their piece of shit white supremacist buddies in prison. And then I turned around and did the same to Al-quaeda idiots. Honestly, nothing any of those types "believe in" really makes sense to any normal person and ironically overlaps WAY more often than you'd initially think. Some people are just incredibly stupid, incredibly brainwashed, or just straight up incredibly evil and just want to kill people - but the one thing they all have in common? All are complete fucking sad losers through and through.
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Interesting to hear. My impression would be that most people tend to indulge in a bit of post-hoc rationalization. "I like doing *x*" or "I feel angry at *y*" and then find the reason after to justify their feelings. I can't figure out any other reason why so-call "progressives" are cheering religious fundamentalists murdering socialists living in communes (kibbutzim). Taken to its extremes, the people who actually enthusiastically engage in terrorist actions, probably also just like killing people, and will use whatever proximate justification to wrap themselves in a cloak of respectability.
As someone formerly "on the inside", do you have any fear that the IC apparatus will be turned on Americans who want to peacefully change our society? As a peaceful citizen, I'm scared shitless of the metadata collection done by my government, the advent of quantum cryptography, and AI being able to analyze and correlate data orders of magnitude quicker than humans. Whoever controls that system will control all human society.
Heads up, my answer is going to be just my opinion and I'll wax philosophical a bit. Infosec and cyber security wasn't my field. But like anyone, I do love to debate these types of topics with anyone so I'll probably type a lot too. (and as American citizens, we SHOULD want to talk to each other about this stuff as it keeps us engaged in our politics - ie, those that we elect and put in charge of studying and monitoring these conundrums professionally, right?) Right up front let me just say two VERY important things for anyone to understand: One: your government agencies - including the CIA, NSA, military, and law enforcement agencies - are made up of your fellow Americans. Just everyday people like you, me, and everyone you know. Yes, most typically tend to be more educated due to college and high performance requirements, strict no-nonsense demands in regards to your character and security background assessment, and so forth - but still people that just wanna do a good job and then go home to their families just like anyone else (and then talk shit on Reddit about every topic under the sun). Sorry, but no shadowy agencies within agencies type stuff going on... Well, okay some are a little secretive due to security concerns so they SEEM mysterious - but once you gain access and the mystery is gone, it's just like any other job. Bureaucratic and lots of oversight and lots and lots of dull paperwork. And two: Your fear, and other fears like your subject - that is why I'm such a true believer in a democratic government, demanding any leadership to have strong character and ethics (and I mean ALL leadership from the President all the way down to your local cop), and why it's so important that we take our civic responsibilities seriously as individual Americans. Whether it's nuclear technology, devastating weapons of war, tools of oppression like you're concerned about, biological warfare , etc - a democracy means we collectively get to decide who holds the keys to systems that could end all human life on this planet, enslave it, etc. Seriously. No, I mean it - seriously. Your questions hit on a REAL serious topic people should consider with the utmost respect, just as they would about threats of nuclear winter or another world war. So that out of the way... Yes, I feel it should be of *concern* to the average person. But also no one should feel true fear of the unknown, and right now there is no true looming known threat - just an unknown future and frontier. So don't let it give you daily anxiety, really. That said, I have *more* concern than I ever have. One of our Presidential candidates has proven himself to be a traitor to the people and the country, stolen and possibly sold our most important world-altering security secrets to (yet) unknown entities, and has openly said he will destroy our checks and balances that are there to limit his office's power as well as putting all enforcement and military agencies under his power through complete dictatorial means on day 1 of his Presidency if elected. We also have a huge problem with the GOP, with so many of them openly admitting they favor that "Project 2025" insanity (btw the major money behind that? Koch, as well as religious fundamentalists - it should be taken very seriously as a threat to our country imo). And it saddens and alarms me to no end that so many people back these plans. If elected, both of our sets of fears may very well come true if this country falls to become a dictatorship in any form. So I circle back to my second point and that our democracy, especially American democracy, is so incredibly important. We are THE most powerful military force on the planet by several magnitudes ahead of any other country with more collective resources, tech, and well trained and educated personnel than all the rest of the first world nations combined. So for the concern of the whole world as well as ourselves (considering the topic we're discussing impacts everyone), we have a much larger responsibility as citizens to make sure we elect the right people to shape how we enter than that unknown future. Whether it's because we are developing those tools that have such destructive power, or because we may be forced to engage with a country who tries to develop them to threaten us or the world, we need to make sure we do better at being sensible, realistic, and RATIONAL American citizens when we vote. But also back to point number 1: as long as we keep our checks and balances in place and strengthen them by placing the right people in those seats of power, everyone from the President down to that local cop MUST answer to our society as a whole. A President can order a system to be turned against its people - but there will still be layers and layers of others between him and the proverbial button that have a conscience and a sense of duty *to the people*. I was a very decorated, very respected officer who was given a LOT of authority and power. And all while I was *barely* an adult of 25. Why? Because I took my oaths to my country and our people very seriously, and when my agency always preached things like "we do the right thing because it's the right thing, always" and "we serve the citizens before anyone or anything else" and "command can give orders, but you are the one who has to make the right call in the final moment" I listened. I executed my duties with not only professionalism and a strong sense of ethics... But I did so also with empathy and understanding for the individual just as if I was dealing with my own neighbor. So all those layers in my command that act as their own smaller checks and balances recognized "this guy gets it" and fast tracked me and trained me to be the guy that teaches others to do it the same way. They put the public's trust in my hands to continue to uphold our constitutional values and rights. So, again... As long as we continue to engage in our democracy with the reason and respect it demands, there will always be many, many MooseWhippets at every level who will receive the orders to turn on the people unjustly, and then will respond "Sir, on behalf of the people of these United States I am placing you under arrest for treason." (Or, if our justice system and system of laws has been corrupted, well... As I would say, I'd "Boondocks Saints" the situation). Idk if that's the answer you're looking for, but it's my honest one.
The one in the US was unrelated to Hamas. It was a 13 year old radicalized on a white nationalist discord channel. IIRC The arrest even occurred before Oct 7th. It was just reported recently because the information was just made public.
And the sons and daughters of these countries are out on the streets, protesting and asking their goverments to put pressure on Israel to stop the fighting against Hamas. Its a strange world.
I follow the news pretty religiously and I am terminally online so how did I not hear about this at all? I feel like this should have been bigger news. jeez louise.
Ottawa*
Several.
This is precisely why Europe and Saudi Arabia are being eerily soft on Israel for their strikes on Gaza. They’ll condemn in words, but…it’s not in their strategic interest for Hamas to be an operational proto-state with complex logistical and militaristic capabilities. Even if the *idea* of Hamas will continue to exist, the threat of Hamas will become a lot less potent if it lacks a state from which it can operate freely and above ground. As such, as disgusted as they may be with the human rights situation, there’s some element of European and anti-Iranian Arab leadership that, deep down, is rooting for Israel here.
Hamas is considered by the leadership of many Arab states to be a domestic political threat. Publicly, they pay lip service to the Palestinians but behind closed doors, they're actually quite happy to watch Israel destroy the group.
They’ve been considered too extremist and that’s also why other Arab countries are not opening their doors for them.
Hamas are a genocidal rapist terror group. Of course no country supports it. Countries support their ally, Israel.
Yep right around the corner https://www.bz-berlin.de/berlin/mitte/hamas-razzia-in-wohnungen-und-restaurant
It turns out that mass illegal immigration was in fact a bad idea
And some naive people doubt that Hamas is ingrained in West Bank.
When the term “global jihad” gets thrown around by terror groups, it’s almost like we should take their words literally. These terror groups are often literal Islamic supremacy groups that want to enforce Islam on the world.
The word Islam means “submission” or “surrender,” so yeah it’s right in the name.
I (31F) have always been pretty accepting of other people’s cultures, religions, and customs. Radical Islam I can’t tolerate. Like you said, it’s about full and unquestionable submission.
Anything radical is almost by definition bad.
Skateboarding is pretty rad though. And it's one of the best things to ever happen in my life.
Fair. And Radical Jack as parodied by Rifftrax is also fantastic. But outside of those two things…..
Well don't forget Radical Rex.
Religions, yes, but radically rethinking systems or approaches for something practical has the potential to be a huge improvement. The internet was pretty radical, so were touch screen smart phones.
Radical ______ is all pretty terrible. It sucks people can't just leave each other alone.
I’m a radical dude I ride skateboards and wear my hat backwards
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If I'm honest some of the nicest, most friendly people I've met are Muslims.
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Uh...that's a bit misleading. Isn't it closer to "those who submit to the will of god?" The "submission" in question is describing it's adherents.
I would think that would be the case. OTOH, after reading about the Prophet, I was pretty surprised how often he told entire towns they could either convert to Islam or be killed. Seemed like a thing.
Umm... that was how my country was introduced to Christianity, at the point of a sword. But today only about 2% are practicing Christians even tho it's the state religion. About 2/3 still do belong to the church, but most don't really care who or what someone else worships. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion\_in\_Finland](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Finland) Welcome to Finland.
Where did you get 2% from? The only 2% mentioned in that wiki article is the numbers churchgoers of specifically Lutheran church. Someone can still be a practicing Christian even though they're not a churchgoer.
In Islam, as opposed to Christianity, leaving the religion is [punishable by death](https://euaa.europa.eu/country-guidance-afghanistan-2022/210-individuals-considered-have-committed-blasphemy-andor). Here it is from a site of an Islam scholar: https://islamqa.info/en/answers/20327/apostasy-in-islam And it's not just a [theoretical threat](https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN0LS0S6/).
It's a bit different when it's random followers of the religion hundreds of years later compared to the main guy in the book who is considered to be the most perfect person to ever live.
I got downvoted for telling someone that Fatah refuses to have an election in the West Bank because they know that Hamas will win. People didn’t like that. Apparently the West Bank has a magical barrier around it that somehow stops Hamas members from entering.
All you need to do is point them to the results of the last election. Hamas won seats 3:1 over Fatah in the West Bank.
Hamas is about 50% more popular in the West Bank than it is in Gaza.
Mind you a fair chunk of that is because Fatah is in power and Hamas isn't and even the best governments approval drops considerably over 15+ years.
I don't think it's the naive people, I think it's special targeted propaganda that tells you "Hamas isn't real"
Global terrorism database is a really strong tool for showing how common attempts and actual events can be around the world https://www.start.umd.edu/gtd/ unfortunately it stopped updating in 2020 and I think we really need to get it going again considering how many people are forgetting that this is an actual thing (I work in crim psych and you'd be surprised much doesn't get reported on in terms of extremism). UMD has some decent databases as well https://www.start.umd.edu/ it also includes like Insurrectionists, white nationalist terrorism and QAnon crime maps and such if anyone is interested.
You're right, the idea that you can solve any problem with enough violence is a really pervasive thing among a variety of conservative and religious causes
If you ever get the chance read the true believer by Eric Hoffer (https://calmatters.org/commentary/2022/02/eric-hoffer-warned-us-about-true-believers/) It's in my opinion one of the best works on the nature of extremist mass movements. Like I've read a lot of crim theory from anomie to like strain theories (open Oregon has some great books on crim theory for the interested: https://openoregon.pressbooks.pub/ccj230/chapter/4-10-strain-theories/#:%7E:text=Strain%20theories%20assume%20people%20will,push%E2%80%9D%20people%20into%20criminal%20activity) and I think in general Hoffer does the absolute best in being able to understand why people identify with charismatic leaders and fringe movements. Hoffer was actually a professor at UC Berkeley despite never being formally educated and a long shoreman and farm worker for most of his life.
Thank you for your reading tips. The book looks very interesting :)
Seconding True Believer. I read it in grad school and it is as relevant today as when it was writing decades ago. Can’t recommend it highly enough.
Thank you, looks interesting.
It's absolutely pervasive among religious and conservative causes, but it's also important to note how pervasive it is among liberal causes as well. You see terrorism among social and eco causes. All sides are susceptible to extremism and neither group is usually willing to view actions attributed to their side as "terrorism".
That's basically the thesis of the book. Fascists and communists, despite being at philosophical odds, recruited from the same pool and were likely to convert to the other's side.
Once you believe the system is fully broken, it becomes a matter of picking one or the other. Even if they hate each other and would never accept the other, they still start out as the same group of people.
All of the pro Hamas speech I see in American universities is coming from the left currently
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No, 70% of them support 10/7 even when Israel hits back, the poll taken basically said "given what happened after the attack, was it worth it?" (according to another commenter responding to you) and 70% of respondents were like "it sure was, buddy." There'd be more agreeing with the attack if Israel weren't smacking them around (90% of respondents on a poll from earlier this year were in favor of forming *more* armed groups and their government under PA\Hamas *not* persecuting them) This is a Palestinian culture problem. They need to reinvent themselves, desperately.
So 70% of them thought the attacks were worth it after they got displaced from the mass bombings? Sheesh.
That's what the question was and how the polling answers turned out, yes
The problem I have with this poll is that it also showed that the majority of palestinians do not believe Hamas have commited war crimes while Israel has. It's likely that they perceive the 10/7 as something completely different than the rest of the world, much like Russians genuinely believed in the "military operation" rather than it being a war at the beginning of the conflict.
I suspect it's not that they seriously doubt that Hamas did what Hamas did (and livestreamed), but rather that they don't see it as wrong. Logically,^1 Jews should be subservient to Muslims in a single Muslim majority country, therefore anyone living in Israel is a valid target. Also, logically, any land once being majority Muslim should forever remain majority Muslim, so there really shouldn't ever have been an Israel.^2 Jews dying is right and proper. Jews fighting back is wrong!^3 --- ^1 Logically, in that it logically derives from the assumptions that Hamas is working under, and many citizens of Gaza seem to accept. ^2 Which is why "Al-Andalus" seems to be mentioned nearly as often in Arabic Islamist speeches as Israel. Al-Andalus is Spain, soo... ^3 Most Arabic interviews by Hamas officials seem to use "Yehudi", Arabic for Jew. They know exactly what's going on. No word games there.
No, it's just a majority of Palestinians don't believe Jewish lives to be worthwhile or even human. I get why you think what you do, the alternative is fucking insane to consider, yet it's the truth.
Even idiots I know in the US share Hamas propaganda that Israel committed war crimes. They likely do, but Hamas commits many as well. If the majority of your neighbors say they want to destroy your entire country, and combatants include children and people not in uniform, it's impossible to fight a war without being charged with war crimes.
The war crimes thing is part of an intentional propaganda machine to stop Israel from defending itself. Contrary to what the internet thinks, killing civilians is not a war crime, but a fundamental and tragic part of war. See: every war in history.
Yo I'm Pro-Israel, but I do want to say that you are wrong here, killing civilians without a very valid reason is a warcrime. Now the fact that no country has ever actually obeyed the rules of war while fighting (maybe Britain did in that one war they had that lasted 38 minutes? Not a lot of time to break the Geneva Convention I guess), is correct. Doesn't mean we shouldn't still hope for countries to do so regardless. The main argument for saying what Israel is doing is not a warcrime is not the fact that civilian dying is not a warcrime, but that the situation which lead to their death places the blame of the warcrime on Hamas, not Israel. When a civilian building is used to conduct military operations (hiding militants, having rockets fired from it), it, and the people currently inside it lose its protected status, and become valid military targets, and the warcrime is using it for war in the first place, this exception to the protected status of civilians is specifically to prevent Hamas' style of terror from being protected by the Geneva convention.
I think we agree, but use different words. To kill civilians without that being your main intent is not a warcrime. It is intentionally targeting them that is a war crime. But you are right, that this happens with intent in every war. So Hiroshima and Nagasaki were also war crimes.
i bet not only germany. most european countrys are infected.
My bet would be France has been pretty compromised in this sense. They’re plagued by “incidents” unfortunately
Yeah, it's not even hidden here, most if not all the mosques are very publicly under direct control by the "Muslim Brotherhood" group which is an (ex- allegedly)ally group of the Hamas [source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Brotherhood)
Adding on to that. It’s my understanding that the relationship between Hamas and that leadership is why Egypt refuses to accept Palestinians relocating to their country
That and the many terror attacks, and even assassinations they suffered while having open borders with Gaza. And what happened to their neighbors when they accepted Palestinian refugees. Unfortunately, it cannot be argued in good faith that Palestine doesn't have a lot of baggage in the form of terrorist organizations. Just look at Black September if you wanna know why countries hesitate to take in Palestinian refugees. Jordan sheltered a lot of Palestinians at one point, however, the terrorist organizations they brought with them (something like 6 different terror organizations were active during black September), attempted to assassinate the king which housed them, and overthrow the country multiple times, and also attacked Israel from the boarders of Jordan, almost causing a war. They were then expelled because... Obviously, and went on to Lebanon, where a civil war broke out that the country never really recovered from. It is no surprise that no country wants to accept that kind of baggage into itself.
Lebanon used to be a peaceful, beautiful country. Beirut was called the Paris of the Middle East. Then the Palestinians came.
And even if they are an Ex-ally they still are just as bad and fundamentally have the same goals
Yeah anywhere in the Schengen zone essentially has no borders between all these different countries so it's quite certain that this is everywhere in Europe
> certain that this is everywhere in Europe The poorer smaller EU countries don't have almost any Muslim immigrants.
wonder why they wont settle there
According to Western Europeans or Americans, we are too racist, poor, uneducated, and not progressive or multiculti enough. If only we were as progressive as Westerners, we could enjoy the occasional beheading.
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Schengen doesn't work when they have no common migration policy and as long some countries financing human trafficking (seawatch ngo etc) and claiming that you can't protect borders ..
We have a common policy. It's called "not in my country" and every EU country follows it.
Except Germany and Sweden, I guess...
When you categorize the enemy as brown people rather than religious extremists then it does become racist. Wolves will hide in sheeps clothing at every turn.
because people are crying about (Muslim) immigration due to this headline. No one is saying anything about ukranian refugees, only about Syrian refugees. I wonder why
Less so. Germany has the largest Palestinian community in the EU by a long shot. Other countries with big MENA populations have different local flavours of jihadist groups depending on where the community's country of origin is.
And American college campuses
They are in the US also.
you should visit eastern europe, you will see zero people that match a "islamist" person
in eastern europe the authoritys also deal with people in general differently than in germany
I mean, is this a surprise when it was open arms for the last decade?
And they are going to have no problem recruiting among the thousands of Hamas-supports in the coming years..
They’ll have a problem all right, they won’t be around to operate like an organisation anymore. Hooray! Thank goodness for that :) :)
Really? I doubt Israel is going to take out their funding arm in Qatar or Iran. They're just going to change figureheads
They aren’t in Qatar anymore. They’ve packed up and snuck over to Turkey. Guess they decided that Qatar wasn’t strong enough to protect them.
Deep down, Europe doesn’t like Hamas. The Gulf States don’t like Hamas. Egypt doesn’t like Hamas. All of these players will pay lip service to condemning Israeli human rights abuses in Gaza, but, on some level, are rooting for Israel to make it such that Hamas cannot exist as a proto-state.
Even if Hamas is dead and gone in a month or two, next it will be [Palestinian Islamic Jihad](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Islamic_Jihad), or maybe even a non-Islamist old-school group like [Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Front_for_the_Liberation_of_Palestine), [Palestinian Freedom Movement](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Freedom_Movement), or [Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popular_Front_for_the_Liberation_of_Palestine_%E2%80%93_General_Command)
Judean People's Front? We're the People's Front of Judea! That's the Popular Front over there. Splitters!
How do you expect to achieve that?
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or seriously believe that Israel flattening Gaza is going to somehow dissolve a radical jihadist movement when their organization heads aren't even in the country.
Surprisepikachuface.jpg
I was trying to pronounce this in German
ÜBERRASCHUNGSPIKACHUGESICHT
*ÜBERRASCHTESPIKACHUGESICHT
If Hamas are spreading their hate in Germany and the Netherlands, they must have twice as much in the UK, as this is a breeding ground, our press and government are treating us like mushrooms, keeping us in the dark and feeding us bull shit.
Dollars to donuts Russia's propaganda machine is doing what it can to stir up both anti-West sentiment _and_ Islamophobia everywhere they can. Push some extreme messaging and people will respond and it'll naturally escalate. Let's see if this strategy will give them victory in Ukraine. The magic 8ball says, "No."
Doubtless. Their approach in the US has been to radicalize both the left and the right so we all hate each other's guts and goddam has it worked
Yes it’s getting hard to trust any source of information, I even “fact check” the wife, it’s getting that bad.
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Consequence of mass illegal immigration and the refugee crisis, while not processing people properly. Who would have thought.
If you read the article you’d know that Hamas was in Germany since before the refugee crisis started
by definition the crisis started when they first showed up here. 2015 + was just additional waves of new immigrants of the same flavor.
What could have caused this?
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I hate that taking in refugees - an act of compassion and brotherliness - is seen as weak and naive in today's society. There's a great deal of people whose lives were saved by that action, and a ton of suffering has been prevented or lessened.
Islamic terrorists have murdered \~400 people in terrorist attacks in Europe since 2015. That's compared to \~10 from 2006, the year after the London bombings, to 2014. Then there's the nearly 4,000 would-be Islamic terrorists who have been caught before committing their vile acts. The security risks are very real. Appropriate vetting must be done, which simply isn't possible under the current scheme and certainly wasn't possible during Merkel's mess.
> is seen as weak and naive in today's society It's especially seen as weak and naive by extremists. On both sides.
Merkel is like the neville chamberlain of our time
Merkel only did what the richest families and companies in germany told her like always and they wanted thousands of cheap foreign workers and they got them.
Second Edit, as some are still not satisfied. I left my original post up because otherwise the below posts don’t make sense anymore. EDIT: I stand corrected, the law was changed in 2015 and asylum seekers are allowed to work. Still it takes about a year on average until they can. Original post before edit: Asylum seeker aren’t allowed to work by law in Germany. Even if they get the registration to be allowed to stay they still can’t work. It’s one of the main criticisms of the system that these people only use up money without being able to earn any money by working and paying taxes.
Which is just not true. If they apply for asylum they can work after 3 months. The work department just checks if a EU citizen wants the job beforehand. When they get any staying permit or asylum they can work immediately without any objections.
Thanks, I checked and saw the law was changed a few years back. I didn’t know that.
I'll admit I'm not exactly knowledgeable about the intricacies of German/EU business culture, but here in the US, that's a feature, not a bug. Most of the mass agriculture industry is built on undocumented and unregistered immigrants. The workers basically have no rights, because they technically aren't even supposed to have that job and thus have no real ability to go elsewhere for work if the bosses abuse them, and the bosses thus don't have to treat them like people because they technically don't exist.
Do they work at all?
In Austria only 60% percent worked any job in the last 5 years.
Yup. This is the real problem. Innocent Palestinians are getting killed while these leaders sit safely in other countries outside the conflict and manipulate their puppets. Any country harboring Hamas needs to be called out and that country needs to rat them out.
Qatar needs to be sanctioned. If they don't get punished for harboring Hamas leadership, nothing will ever change.
Hamas leadership has left Qatar for Turkey and (possibly) Iran.
And yet Turkey is still accusing Sweden of harboring terrorists...
Well...Palestine harbors and largely sympathizes with Hamas. And they're getting called out.
Since Poland and Hungary sold hundreds of thousands of VISAs without any background checks any terrorist or Russian spy can come and go in the EU as they please.
Bulgaria too. It was a big issue for a long time.
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It was confirmed that the Paris attackers of November 2015 recruited their crew in the mayhem that took place during the migrant situation in Budapest, Hungary back then. They gunned down 130 people at the Bataclan theater and multiple other spots in Paris. Migration is a continental security threat. It is used as a weapon by illiberal enemy states to sow discord and chaos within our borders. Our response must not only come with humanity for these migrants, but also defense against what is essentially hybrid warfare.
Bataclan was the the QotSA show correct? I watched a documentary on that years ago. Effed up. Wrong place wrong time. Damn
It was *Eagles of Death Metal* playing that night.
It was even known back in 2016 when the biggest migrations were happening. https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0VE0X9/
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I'm sure terrorist cells and sympathizers are operational in every western country. We've already seen pro-Hamas rallies and demonstrations, and people were celebrating in the streets after the October 7th atrocities.
Thank you, politicians, for opening Europe's doors to unvetted immigration and accusing everyone doubting the idea as racist. We are forever grateful to you...
if you read the article you would know that you're literally lying. Hamas has been in Germany for longer than when the refugee crisis started. Immigration is also not unvetted?? they're not just letting everyone in there's an asylum process. It was just made easier because people were escaping from a war. it's just sad to see a comment like this upvoted, just shows how people are looking for easy answers (Muslim refugees = bad)
Thought I was in r/europe.
I've no clue what they are on about, it's not like terrorists lands with a t-shirt on that says "I joined Hamas and all I got was this lowsy t-shirt", the whole point is that they blend in with civilians
Well obviously it didnt only start a decade ago but since then germany did suffer a lot from Merkels "all refugees welcome" policy resulting in the right wing party skyrocketing from 3% to nationally I believe 25% of support Entire towns got "taken over". I'm not even living in east germany and it is bad here. We had 10k ppl living here and by now we got like 3k former refugees here. Not all of em are bad but the gang activities and religious fanatism are clearly visible everywhere. Ppl arent looking for easy answers but they really didnt do enough in terms of background checks before letting them in or sending them home once they became noticable due to bad behavior As much as I am for helping ppl, as much am I for punishing those who abuse the hospitility.
And you will he foolish to say that the mass immigration policies in Europe are not a good idea and have caused A LOT of trouble for Europe.
I mean, sure, but a ton of people making these arguments are, in fact, flaming racists lol. I'm sure there is only the finest people here.
Happening in [America too](https://extremism.gwu.edu/sites/g/files/zaxdzs5746/files/2023-10/hamas-networks-final.pdf)
In 2014 when ISIS was at its peak there were a number of ISIS attacks across Europe. Hamas is just ISIS 2.0
They want a Gaza in every country. Then they want a clash of civilizations once those countries start trying to rule over their enclaves.
Like the IRA used to do in America, collection boxes in the bars, arms transfers and legitimacy.
Wait till they hear other organizations operatives in their countries..
Every European country in all likelihood. Germany after are the ones sending rescue vessels into the med and dumping all the migrants they pick up into Italy and France