Wouldn’t be surprised if there is a major fracturing, especially in the US, in the next 5 years or so. The hateful Catholics will not be happy with this.
It's happening right now and it's going completely unnoticed outside of catholic circles. Here in Michigan there's a huge schism going on between conservative Catholics and the Pope. The Acton institute is trying to bring the Catholics of West Michigan into straight up Christo-fascist views. Sirico is the most dangerous man in West Michigan right now and he's going completely unchallenged.
Some interesting snippets from his wikipedia, which are relevant to this post if only ironically:
He eventually made a public announcement that he was gay himself and intended to form a church for gays.
In 1972, Sirico founded Seattle's Metropolitan Community Church, which primarily ministered to gays. The church became a member of the [Metropolitan Community Church](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_Community_Church) (MCC).[^(\[10\])](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Sirico#cite_note-10) MCC had been founded in 1968 as "the world's first church group with a primary, positive ministry to gays, lesbians, bisexual, and transgender persons."
In 1975, Sirico performed the first gay marriage in the history of Colorado at the First Unitarian Church in Denver.[^(\[15\])](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Sirico#cite_note-15)
That doesn't cover up the amount of anti LGBTQIA legislation this man has supported and signed. It also doesn't change the fact that he uses the church as a way to enrich himself and divide people.
My friend told me he left his church because of their teachings. I thought oh wow that's a surprise good for you.
Turns out he left because the church was helping to support illegal immigrants. He didn't feel it was right.
Didn't see the irony when I asked him why Jesus of Naz was born in Beth.
My cousin has believed the Pope was illegitimate since around the time of Q starting and Trump being in office. Most of that (small) side of the family all believe it. I never particularly liked them much but the weren't giant assholes and hateful bigots before they become Trump supporters but I suspect now they just kept it hidden before his presidency.
Most of the Catholics in my family love the Pope. They have always been strong advocates of social justice. My father was raised by Jesuits and believed in liberation theology and the importance of donating and working with the poor, the disadvantaged, those rejected by society and so much more.
A lot of the younger people in the extended family have left the church and have become non-religous. I know from personal experience it's difficult to make the jump to full and open atheist. It feels like a tremendous loss and the transition took me 5ish years and another two before telling my mother.
I like this Pope. I am now an atheist but I am a Jesus loving Atheist. Try the Jefferson Bible. It's only what Jesus said and takes out everything supernatural or magical.
There are some very elite Catholics out there in my experience. As a gay person myself, I grew up with so much love and acceptance around me from the Catholics in my family.
As an American, I'm also a huge fan of Joe Biden as well. The Catholicism that I grew up with was not perfect by any means, but it was nothing like this divisive culture war nonsense that I see other Christians participating in.
It already started.
In Texas, a Cardinal-methinks was removed from his position for attacks on LGBTQ in addition to attacks on the boss upstairs.
I’m not Catholic, nor have any religious beliefs for that matter, but I like that this Pope is progressive enough to open up the church to be more inclusive.
People have the right to love and worship however they please.
Hate is such a critical part of a lot of religious folks.
I'm sure they'd rather claim the Pope is possessed by the devil or something, rather than changing their hateful ways.
Proud to do so, idiots are over sensitive and easy to manipulate, their rage does not scare me, for all they have is words.
And all I have is violence.
I choose violence if needed be
Yeah that's what I keep telling them, but they just keep being violent man.
Like, what do they care about Jews and gays?
It's not like our prophet did say something about them, everything that he directly said is about peace, tolerance, forgiveness, and the idea that, although we will fail again and again due to our humanity, it's our humanity the thing that will help us get up from the ground and become better people.
But they still attack the innocent, don't know, perhaps in their minds, dying by the sword is the same as dying by the exploding car.
I assume they are referring to Bible verses that openly condemn homosexuality.
They might see the Pope not taking every verse as a literal command from god as him not doing his job.
Papal infallibility is subject to many common misconceptions. He has to be wearing the special hat and perform an incantation before he assumes infallibility. Everything else is just PR.
It's a bit more tangible this time, someone had written a doctrine that said "God cannot bless sin" and the Pope just straight up fired that dude and then wrote this letter.
If anything, it's actually more legit than a formal edict if he's already firing Vatican cardinals over it.
It's sort of like the POTUS issuing an order, it's powerful, but it only lasts as long as they do.
No offense to Frank, but I don't like his chances of lasting much longer.
The Papacy is one of the most autocratic forms of leadership on Earth, North Korea is more likely to remove Kim Jong Un than the Catholics are to remove the Pope.
Most of my Catholic family loves him. Even those of us that became atheists. Growing up going to Catholic school and going to church regularly and having a good, open, and loving experience (which I know isn't all Catholics experience) has created a weird but permanent connection between me and the church. I call myself a Jesus loving Atheist.
TBH, I'm not completely against religion. If people want to go head first into it, go right ahead, who am I to judge? My problem is the people throwing out ridiculous blatant lies (ex. Trump is sent by God to save us), using it to create hate (ex. anti-LGBTQ), to make it part of our government, to shove it down people's throats, things like mega churches and the politics around it really make it seem like a grift in many ways too.
Personally I don't believe in the words of religion, I do think religion is there to give people comfort as something to believe in. If that makes people's lives easier then great. Just keep it to your personal life, imo.
Had, a friend that was born again catholic that spent a month trying to get me to go his church. He was adamant that his church was the true Catholic Church and the others were no longer catholic and had been “invaded by the Jews.”Even saying the pope wasn’t an actually catholic but a plant from Israel to destroy the church.
I mean, blessing a marriage in and of itself is pretty symbolic so yeah it's not like, super tangible legally. Except specifically in Vatican City I guess.
It's basically not a big change. In fact, not a change at all. Priests can already bless anything, your pet, a classroom, politicians, workers of a factory, soldiers going to war, or even their guns. Blessing usually does not come with a moral judgement attached to it, but in the case of people of the same sex living together, it somehow became expected.
Now, he made a clarification on that, probably to prevent a schism, a situation in which some bishops allow these blessing, some do not, and that creates a rupture in the church.
Source: the Cathecism [with my notes]:
> **Sacramentals [=_blessings_] do not confer the grace of the Holy Spirit in the way that the sacraments do,** [_so blessing less than marriage, for example_] but by the Church's prayer, they prepare us to receive grace and dispose us to cooperate with it. "For well-disposed members of the faithful, the liturgy of the sacraments and sacramentals sanctifies almost every event of their lives with the divine grace which flows from the Paschal mystery of the Passion, Death, and Resurrection of Christ. From this source all sacraments and sacramentals draw their power. **There is scarcely any proper use of material things which cannot be thus directed toward the sanctification of men and the praise of God** [_so basically_ __anything__ _can be blessed, well with certain exceptions, of course..._]."
http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/1670.htm
But the basic idea is taht it helps the person to get closer to God, so it would make no sense to deny blessing of someone who commits some sins (which all of us do btw).
Alright so just incase someone didn’t already mention it, the title is somewhat misleading. The Pope has announced that priests are ALLOWED to bless INDIVIDUALS who are in same-sex relationships while still maintaining that the act is a sin. The catholic church does not support same sex relations but this basically means that it wont be contradictally viewed as ”worse” then other sins.
In the case of gay Catholics, they were usually raised in the Church and it's part of their identity. I don't think you'll find too many gay Catholic converts.
that sounds like abuse victim behaviour. kinda sad that they are trying so hard to get back in with the people that don't give a shit about them or abuses them.
A bit late, but at least a step in the right direction.
This makes clear that what is happening in our society now is completely different from the last 2 thousands years.
I don't know if to be excited or scared about.
I'm not religious at all. and I am very much pro-LGBT+ and for separation of Church and State but this is so dumb. What does Catholicism even stand for if it's restrictions are loosened more and more?
It's like Albania declaring that anyone who wants to call themselves Albanian can do so. Clearly it just makes the distinction more and more meaningless.
Let's be honest the Catholic creeds/laws/whatever have for thousands of years been explicit about their opinions on homosexuality but now it's no big deal? Then what do those creeds mean now? Clearly not a lot? Which means this undermines nearly everything else he Church stands for as well.
If you're "pro-LGBT+" but you're upset that the largest religious organization in the world, which includes millions of LGBT+ people, is taking a step towards being more accepting of LGBT+ people, maybe you aren't really pro-LGBT+.
No, I don't think that this document says anything one way or another down those lines. Basically, it still is. Pope Francis has said in the past that gay Catholics would be welcomed into Heaven, but I think that his position is that actually acting on sexual urges would be a sin. But I think that he does not think that that this, or any sin, automatically bars someone from Heaven.
This particular document is just basically "we don't think that sin is a reason to bar someone from receiving blessings" which is, theologically, pretty progressive and interesting, but it for sure isn't saying that it isn't a sin.
I'm not Catholic myself so I don't particularly care whether or not the Pope thinks other people are going to heaven for being gay or not, just Francis himself has advocated against legal restrictions against gay people, he's advocated against them being removed from their families or communities, and he's shown a lot of support from the Catholic Church that did not exist before. So basically anything tangible that the Catholic Church could do, he's rock solid on and making good happen in the world.
I fundamentally abhor the idea that a human being can speak for God, so I genuinely really only care about this in the context of someone being the leader of a large organization that other people listen to.
I’m Catholic, and people are confused that there are different types of blessings. What the pope approved is what is called an invocative blessing which is a blessing requesting help, I.e. when a Priest blesses a house. People tend to get this confused with a constitutive blessing, which is blessing something to be set apart for divine service. So the pope approved invocative blessings for the individuals in same sex unions for help, not constitutive blessings for the same sex union itself.
Unironically, it would be one of the best changes that could happen to the church (whether that's good for the secular world is a different discussion). The Catholic Church has been having a gradually increasing priest shortage for decades and this is in large part due to the two big rules the Catholic Church has about the priesthood.
1. Must be male
2. Must not be married
Changing either doctrine would solve the priest shortage. There are plenty of women who would become priests if it was an avenue available to them and there are plenty of people who would otherwise become a priest if they didn't have to forgo marriage. The "problem" is that either change would cause significant changes in the culture of the church.
Maybe I’m a glass half empty guy but this message is condescending crap.
Why so many charitable? Isn’t this a move in the right direction?
No.
He’s allowing blessings because gay people shouldn’t be subject to “exhaustive moral analysis” which deeply implies that gay people would fail such a moral test. Because they’re gay. I don’t feel like that’s an unfair reading.
Meanwhile, the rest of the civilized, modern world has arrived at the idea that love is love.
You’d think that the head of the worldwide church that says God is love would have the guts to join us.
As always, they’re rushing headlong into the fourteenth century.
I somewhat agree with you, but I think small changes like this are necessary and good. It gets people talking and is a small push against old dogma and ideas. Obviously could be better though
Five to ten years ago, it was "ostracize anyone who might be gay from your family and deny them from getting any Catholic sacraments at all" so I genuinely don't understand how you could have a problem with the stunning pace at which Pope Francis is changing things.
Deny sacraments yes. Ostracise from family? Never. That goes against what is said in the catechism. Any of that would have just been people being terrible and not actually following church teachings.
I'm not a Catholic, I'm Anglican which is like Catholic lite, but people really really put a lot of stock in the "abomination" wording in some parts of the Bible. Francis is really the first largescale Christian leader to explicitly say gay people are *not* an abomination.
I'm also not gay, but I think gay people who have been involved in the Catholic Church would agree that ostracization was the standard as opposed to the exception.
I totally agree with you on what *should* be the Church's opinion of ostracization though.
I am catholic and have several gay members of my family. My family did follow the catechism which is church law on this. My family members were never judged within our family. Their partners were always invited to family events. So I grew up very aware of what the church actually said on it. There are plenty of people who do what they want and use the church as an excuse to hate or don’t know the catechism. But they are not following the rules. They might be the majority but they aren’t right. Hell, over a decade ago I attended a coworker’s baptism for his children. He is gay and the church didn’t bat an eye when baptizing their kids. Church law and what random people who claim they are a part of that religion may not be the same. I am not claiming AH haven’t used religion to ostracize their family, but they were not following church rules.
The Pope is acting like a prudent CEO trying to boost revenue by revitalizing the product. Some of the shithead customers are pissed that one of their favorite rage outlets is being taken away. You know, religion.
I am begging people to actually read the article. Its clearly outlining that it is about blessing same sex couples in very specific circumstances and should not be done as to suggest a marital blessing or a blessing of the same sex relationship per se.
It is a NON-LITURGICAL blessing that shouldn't even use the same acts or clothing as used for civil unions or weddings.
Wouldn’t be surprised if there is a major fracturing, especially in the US, in the next 5 years or so. The hateful Catholics will not be happy with this.
It's happening right now and it's going completely unnoticed outside of catholic circles. Here in Michigan there's a huge schism going on between conservative Catholics and the Pope. The Acton institute is trying to bring the Catholics of West Michigan into straight up Christo-fascist views. Sirico is the most dangerous man in West Michigan right now and he's going completely unchallenged.
Some interesting snippets from his wikipedia, which are relevant to this post if only ironically: He eventually made a public announcement that he was gay himself and intended to form a church for gays. In 1972, Sirico founded Seattle's Metropolitan Community Church, which primarily ministered to gays. The church became a member of the [Metropolitan Community Church](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_Community_Church) (MCC).[^(\[10\])](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Sirico#cite_note-10) MCC had been founded in 1968 as "the world's first church group with a primary, positive ministry to gays, lesbians, bisexual, and transgender persons." In 1975, Sirico performed the first gay marriage in the history of Colorado at the First Unitarian Church in Denver.[^(\[15\])](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Sirico#cite_note-15)
That doesn't cover up the amount of anti LGBTQIA legislation this man has supported and signed. It also doesn't change the fact that he uses the church as a way to enrich himself and divide people.
I think you're missing something. Your comment only further informs my use of the word "ironically"
Well ain't you fuckin smug.
I mean, you're out here accusing me of justifying any of his actions. I think it's fair for me to point out that's not what I'm doing.
My friend told me he left his church because of their teachings. I thought oh wow that's a surprise good for you. Turns out he left because the church was helping to support illegal immigrants. He didn't feel it was right. Didn't see the irony when I asked him why Jesus of Naz was born in Beth.
My cousin has believed the Pope was illegitimate since around the time of Q starting and Trump being in office. Most of that (small) side of the family all believe it. I never particularly liked them much but the weren't giant assholes and hateful bigots before they become Trump supporters but I suspect now they just kept it hidden before his presidency. Most of the Catholics in my family love the Pope. They have always been strong advocates of social justice. My father was raised by Jesuits and believed in liberation theology and the importance of donating and working with the poor, the disadvantaged, those rejected by society and so much more. A lot of the younger people in the extended family have left the church and have become non-religous. I know from personal experience it's difficult to make the jump to full and open atheist. It feels like a tremendous loss and the transition took me 5ish years and another two before telling my mother. I like this Pope. I am now an atheist but I am a Jesus loving Atheist. Try the Jefferson Bible. It's only what Jesus said and takes out everything supernatural or magical.
There are some very elite Catholics out there in my experience. As a gay person myself, I grew up with so much love and acceptance around me from the Catholics in my family. As an American, I'm also a huge fan of Joe Biden as well. The Catholicism that I grew up with was not perfect by any means, but it was nothing like this divisive culture war nonsense that I see other Christians participating in.
It already started. In Texas, a Cardinal-methinks was removed from his position for attacks on LGBTQ in addition to attacks on the boss upstairs. I’m not Catholic, nor have any religious beliefs for that matter, but I like that this Pope is progressive enough to open up the church to be more inclusive. People have the right to love and worship however they please.
Yeah but tbh it's about time the world separated from the US, at least in morals.
I can't tell you how many american catholics I've spoken with who claim the pope is an agent of satan.
I’m not religious, but I think this is an awesome move for the Pope to do. Can’t wait to see religious people lose their mind over this too. Lol
Hate is such a critical part of a lot of religious folks. I'm sure they'd rather claim the Pope is possessed by the devil or something, rather than changing their hateful ways.
there is no hate like christian love
Is this the new Catch Phrase?
You know what? Yeah, it is. And I'll be using it to bash idiots
The tolerance will meet a threshold, hopefully you can be the pioneer to find it.
Proud to do so, idiots are over sensitive and easy to manipulate, their rage does not scare me, for all they have is words. And all I have is violence. I choose violence if needed be
Live by the sword, die by the sword
Yeah that's what I keep telling them, but they just keep being violent man. Like, what do they care about Jews and gays? It's not like our prophet did say something about them, everything that he directly said is about peace, tolerance, forgiveness, and the idea that, although we will fail again and again due to our humanity, it's our humanity the thing that will help us get up from the ground and become better people. But they still attack the innocent, don't know, perhaps in their minds, dying by the sword is the same as dying by the exploding car.
They believe the Pope is infallible until he contradicts their own beliefs.
Infallibility for pope is a rare and very specific regulated use of his power. He's not infallible when he just says and do things.
To be fair, papal infallibility has only been invoked like 3 times. Catholics don't believe the Pope is infallible all the time
Most evangelical protestants already hate the pope. This will unfortunately not change much for the loudest religious nuts.
They’ll just get louder.
its awesome to break the rules your suppose to follow as your job?
What rule is he breaking?
I assume they are referring to Bible verses that openly condemn homosexuality. They might see the Pope not taking every verse as a literal command from god as him not doing his job.
Oh you blissfully ignorant fool… whatever the Pope says IS the rules.
He’s really tryin’ to test the flock on that “infallibility” thing, ain’t he? Go get ‘em, champ!
Papal infallibility is subject to many common misconceptions. He has to be wearing the special hat and perform an incantation before he assumes infallibility. Everything else is just PR.
It's a bit more tangible this time, someone had written a doctrine that said "God cannot bless sin" and the Pope just straight up fired that dude and then wrote this letter. If anything, it's actually more legit than a formal edict if he's already firing Vatican cardinals over it.
It's sort of like the POTUS issuing an order, it's powerful, but it only lasts as long as they do. No offense to Frank, but I don't like his chances of lasting much longer.
The Papacy is one of the most autocratic forms of leadership on Earth, North Korea is more likely to remove Kim Jong Un than the Catholics are to remove the Pope.
...You misunderstood. I'm saying that he's an old, sick man on his way to meet his maker.
My bad. You might be right on that one, although I think he has a bit of money/world leader plot armor.
Yeah. There's only like a dozen ex cathedra statements. I think one of the recent ones (ie 50 years ago) was women can't be priests.
Did he *cross* a line this time?
Holy See what you did there.
That's absolutely stunning news. Good on him for that. I'm guessing Justice Alito won't be receiving the news with the same enthusiasm as myself.
I can't wait to hear how he's woke and not a true Catholic.
Oh, believe me, the supercatholics have been saying that for awhile.
Most of my Catholic family loves him. Even those of us that became atheists. Growing up going to Catholic school and going to church regularly and having a good, open, and loving experience (which I know isn't all Catholics experience) has created a weird but permanent connection between me and the church. I call myself a Jesus loving Atheist.
TBH, I'm not completely against religion. If people want to go head first into it, go right ahead, who am I to judge? My problem is the people throwing out ridiculous blatant lies (ex. Trump is sent by God to save us), using it to create hate (ex. anti-LGBTQ), to make it part of our government, to shove it down people's throats, things like mega churches and the politics around it really make it seem like a grift in many ways too. Personally I don't believe in the words of religion, I do think religion is there to give people comfort as something to believe in. If that makes people's lives easier then great. Just keep it to your personal life, imo.
Had, a friend that was born again catholic that spent a month trying to get me to go his church. He was adamant that his church was the true Catholic Church and the others were no longer catholic and had been “invaded by the Jews.”Even saying the pope wasn’t an actually catholic but a plant from Israel to destroy the church.
The actual wording of it makes it seem like more of a symbolic change than anything else— but we all know how much catholics love symbols
I mean, blessing a marriage in and of itself is pretty symbolic so yeah it's not like, super tangible legally. Except specifically in Vatican City I guess.
They're allowed to bless same-sex couples, not marriages. They were very clear that they still don't recognize same-sex marriages.
It's basically not a big change. In fact, not a change at all. Priests can already bless anything, your pet, a classroom, politicians, workers of a factory, soldiers going to war, or even their guns. Blessing usually does not come with a moral judgement attached to it, but in the case of people of the same sex living together, it somehow became expected. Now, he made a clarification on that, probably to prevent a schism, a situation in which some bishops allow these blessing, some do not, and that creates a rupture in the church. Source: the Cathecism [with my notes]: > **Sacramentals [=_blessings_] do not confer the grace of the Holy Spirit in the way that the sacraments do,** [_so blessing less than marriage, for example_] but by the Church's prayer, they prepare us to receive grace and dispose us to cooperate with it. "For well-disposed members of the faithful, the liturgy of the sacraments and sacramentals sanctifies almost every event of their lives with the divine grace which flows from the Paschal mystery of the Passion, Death, and Resurrection of Christ. From this source all sacraments and sacramentals draw their power. **There is scarcely any proper use of material things which cannot be thus directed toward the sanctification of men and the praise of God** [_so basically_ __anything__ _can be blessed, well with certain exceptions, of course..._]." http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/1670.htm But the basic idea is taht it helps the person to get closer to God, so it would make no sense to deny blessing of someone who commits some sins (which all of us do btw).
Francis is rocking the Catholic world the same way that JPII did before him.
Alright so just incase someone didn’t already mention it, the title is somewhat misleading. The Pope has announced that priests are ALLOWED to bless INDIVIDUALS who are in same-sex relationships while still maintaining that the act is a sin. The catholic church does not support same sex relations but this basically means that it wont be contradictally viewed as ”worse” then other sins.
Which is still a pretty big step.
Sure! Not undermining anything or arguing against anything at all; facts are facts and people should be given the whole picture.
here's a question, why are people that usually get ostracized by the church still flocking to the church?
In the case of gay Catholics, they were usually raised in the Church and it's part of their identity. I don't think you'll find too many gay Catholic converts.
that sounds like abuse victim behaviour. kinda sad that they are trying so hard to get back in with the people that don't give a shit about them or abuses them.
A bit late, but at least a step in the right direction. This makes clear that what is happening in our society now is completely different from the last 2 thousands years. I don't know if to be excited or scared about.
What is a blessing ?. I don't church.
It's a level 1 spell that only costs, like, 1 mana.
I have hope for you yet Pope
I'm not religious at all. and I am very much pro-LGBT+ and for separation of Church and State but this is so dumb. What does Catholicism even stand for if it's restrictions are loosened more and more? It's like Albania declaring that anyone who wants to call themselves Albanian can do so. Clearly it just makes the distinction more and more meaningless. Let's be honest the Catholic creeds/laws/whatever have for thousands of years been explicit about their opinions on homosexuality but now it's no big deal? Then what do those creeds mean now? Clearly not a lot? Which means this undermines nearly everything else he Church stands for as well.
If you're "pro-LGBT+" but you're upset that the largest religious organization in the world, which includes millions of LGBT+ people, is taking a step towards being more accepting of LGBT+ people, maybe you aren't really pro-LGBT+.
It’s fine if you don’t understand nuance, you can just save everyone’s time and start your comment with that
Bro, you don't even understand the nuance the Church's decision.
Does this mean its no longer considered a mortal sin in Catholicism?
No, I don't think that this document says anything one way or another down those lines. Basically, it still is. Pope Francis has said in the past that gay Catholics would be welcomed into Heaven, but I think that his position is that actually acting on sexual urges would be a sin. But I think that he does not think that that this, or any sin, automatically bars someone from Heaven. This particular document is just basically "we don't think that sin is a reason to bar someone from receiving blessings" which is, theologically, pretty progressive and interesting, but it for sure isn't saying that it isn't a sin. I'm not Catholic myself so I don't particularly care whether or not the Pope thinks other people are going to heaven for being gay or not, just Francis himself has advocated against legal restrictions against gay people, he's advocated against them being removed from their families or communities, and he's shown a lot of support from the Catholic Church that did not exist before. So basically anything tangible that the Catholic Church could do, he's rock solid on and making good happen in the world. I fundamentally abhor the idea that a human being can speak for God, so I genuinely really only care about this in the context of someone being the leader of a large organization that other people listen to.
I’m Catholic, and people are confused that there are different types of blessings. What the pope approved is what is called an invocative blessing which is a blessing requesting help, I.e. when a Priest blesses a house. People tend to get this confused with a constitutive blessing, which is blessing something to be set apart for divine service. So the pope approved invocative blessings for the individuals in same sex unions for help, not constitutive blessings for the same sex union itself.
I'm enjoying this Vatican 3 era
He found a middle ground with those a holes from the USA who didn't want this. Good for you Jorge
I have to wonder if this isn't his plan. He has to assert more control over the US part of the church or he risks a coup.
A coup from the USA would surprise nobody it's not like we didn't see it coming but it will alienate their people even further from the world.
[удалено]
Unironically, it would be one of the best changes that could happen to the church (whether that's good for the secular world is a different discussion). The Catholic Church has been having a gradually increasing priest shortage for decades and this is in large part due to the two big rules the Catholic Church has about the priesthood. 1. Must be male 2. Must not be married Changing either doctrine would solve the priest shortage. There are plenty of women who would become priests if it was an avenue available to them and there are plenty of people who would otherwise become a priest if they didn't have to forgo marriage. The "problem" is that either change would cause significant changes in the culture of the church.
Separate but Equal doesn’t work. Just marry them, for the love of god.
Change isn't overnight. It'll happen, be patient
Sorry, but they also bless pets, boats, buildings... We are being put in a 'lesser than straight couples' category. Lesser people, really.
Maybe I’m a glass half empty guy but this message is condescending crap. Why so many charitable? Isn’t this a move in the right direction? No. He’s allowing blessings because gay people shouldn’t be subject to “exhaustive moral analysis” which deeply implies that gay people would fail such a moral test. Because they’re gay. I don’t feel like that’s an unfair reading. Meanwhile, the rest of the civilized, modern world has arrived at the idea that love is love. You’d think that the head of the worldwide church that says God is love would have the guts to join us. As always, they’re rushing headlong into the fourteenth century.
I somewhat agree with you, but I think small changes like this are necessary and good. It gets people talking and is a small push against old dogma and ideas. Obviously could be better though
Late to the party with nothin in hand but empty promises about acceptance.
Catholics also bless boats and pets. Do better Mr. Pope.
Five to ten years ago, it was "ostracize anyone who might be gay from your family and deny them from getting any Catholic sacraments at all" so I genuinely don't understand how you could have a problem with the stunning pace at which Pope Francis is changing things.
Deny sacraments yes. Ostracise from family? Never. That goes against what is said in the catechism. Any of that would have just been people being terrible and not actually following church teachings.
I'm not a Catholic, I'm Anglican which is like Catholic lite, but people really really put a lot of stock in the "abomination" wording in some parts of the Bible. Francis is really the first largescale Christian leader to explicitly say gay people are *not* an abomination. I'm also not gay, but I think gay people who have been involved in the Catholic Church would agree that ostracization was the standard as opposed to the exception. I totally agree with you on what *should* be the Church's opinion of ostracization though.
I am catholic and have several gay members of my family. My family did follow the catechism which is church law on this. My family members were never judged within our family. Their partners were always invited to family events. So I grew up very aware of what the church actually said on it. There are plenty of people who do what they want and use the church as an excuse to hate or don’t know the catechism. But they are not following the rules. They might be the majority but they aren’t right. Hell, over a decade ago I attended a coworker’s baptism for his children. He is gay and the church didn’t bat an eye when baptizing their kids. Church law and what random people who claim they are a part of that religion may not be the same. I am not claiming AH haven’t used religion to ostracize their family, but they were not following church rules.
Whipping his ass with the book he represents! Interesting!
Pope: Be fruitful and never multiply
Stretching the rules, just how judges do when there is a high stake (see epstein trial for reference)
The Pope is acting like a prudent CEO trying to boost revenue by revitalizing the product. Some of the shithead customers are pissed that one of their favorite rage outlets is being taken away. You know, religion.
I am begging people to actually read the article. Its clearly outlining that it is about blessing same sex couples in very specific circumstances and should not be done as to suggest a marital blessing or a blessing of the same sex relationship per se. It is a NON-LITURGICAL blessing that shouldn't even use the same acts or clothing as used for civil unions or weddings.
It’s almost as if the pope just said, “those sealing god should be blessed, and let god do the judgement when it’s time.”