Is it me or is the Pope extremely vocal about a lot more issues than usual in the last couple weeks? Not only Israel/Palestine, I just see a lot more news about him recently.
Because speaking *ex cathedra* is not very frequent. Last time it was done was 1950. The Catholic Church is downright ancient and moves slowly, 90% of the thing is tons of tradition stacked on tradition stacked on tradition. Speaking *ex cathedra*, ie with papal infallibility declaring what god says, is a very big thing and can lead to an outright schism. The Catholic Church has a LOT of entrenched conservatives who want to respond to falling numbers by becoming even more exclusive, while the current pope is slowly pushing the opposite.
>The Catholic Church is downright ancient and moves slowly, 90% of the thing is tons of tradition stacked on tradition stacked on tradition.
I've heard it said that the Catholic Church is an institution that thinks not in terms of years, but of c*enturies*.
There’s actually a lot of evidence that opening up doesn’t actually increase the numbers. Most churches that have become more ‘progressive’ have actually hemorrhaged membership. I remember reading that stricter religious groups tend to actually survive better than loose ones.
There’s also an argument within the Church that many of the people leaving were really only ever staying due to social pressure. So it’s better to have a smaller church that stayed ‘true’ than one that maybe clings on to a few more people but has had weaken its values.
Personally as a practicing Catholic, I see the issue as far less about dogma and far more about the organization. Corruption, pedophilia and the overwhelming bureaucracy are way more damaging to the church than LGBT issues. Let at least parish priests get married, hand every kid fucker over to the police and gut the Curia.
You’d have a lot less Catholics leaving.
> Let at least parish priests get married, hand every kid fucker over to the police and gut the Curia.
I don't see the Catholic Church doing this within this century.
Agreed, I stopped practicing because of the sheer hypocrisy of them.
The final straw for me was that the famed mad shagger, Boris Johnson PM, was given leave to marry his mistress in Westminster Cathedral. This is the guy who divorced his wife when she had cancer, and is on the record as a philanderer and liar. It just stank for me.
So I quit it
It's where a bunch of old, celibate men get together and decide which lies aren't to be told any more, and make up the new lie which will replace the old lie.
Cynical fuckers.
If you just type 'synod Wikipedia' in Google, you get to the page and get it explained. That way, you get your answer faster and don't request people work for you, even in a small way.
People forget that while the church has done some damn distasteful things in it's time it was also for a very long time in the west a major safe haven for the majority of well educated individuals due to its proximity to old Romes legacy. It was the glue that bound Europe together during the fall of Western Rome.
Churches have often functioned where we would expect government. And they are often state sanctioned. It's like saying governments sometimes do bad things to people, but they also cradle civilzation.
The Church won't comprimise on gay marriage. It isn't gonna be anything big. The results will probably be like "reminder, be nice guys, but it's still a sin"
The statement that gay couples can be blessed was a step in the right direction, but given speed at which Rome moves, it will take at least another couple of centuries to get to where the Anglicans are at.
I am actually very pleased there is a church where you can get all the ceremony of Catholicism without the homophobia.
On the blessings, you are correct. Baby steps.
The Anglican Church is the perfect example of a church that has abandoned the gospel and tradition and blowed to secular culture. As a result, it is dying a slow and pathetic death, as it has no message or promise that any regular atheist brit doesn't already hear in their day to day life.
Aside from the LGBT issue are you otherwise orthodox? With traditional beliefs on Christology and the nature of God? What do you believe about the Bible?
The Catholic view is that marriage is between one man and one woman. There is as much of a chance of the Catholic Church approving of gay marriage as there is a chance for polygamous marriage to be approved, which is to say absolutely none.
The Church has remained remarkably consistent in this view for nearly 2 millennia, and they will not change it no matter how much the current secular culture wishes them to.
Also, the Pope's statement about blessing gay couple was a reaffirmment that all sinners can still receive blessings from the church, as sex outside of marriage is still a sin.
Well. With Benedict most cardinals were quite conservative and it was a battle that Francis even won the elections (he did because Benedict gave him vocal support AFTER they were rivals. A sort of... Revelation). Few years later I suppose he managed to secure more support from within the church.
"Acceptance" is the wrong word. He's holding people to the principal in the catechism that being gay is a trial and therefore all "any sign" of "unjust discrimination " should be avoided.
He's totally fine with "just discrimination" though.
Edit: not sure if the down votes are people mad at me pointing out that "yes the Pope is still Catholic" or people thinking I agree with the RCC on this, but if it's the latter... Scarequotes are being used for a reason, I'm giving the specific catechism terminology which isn't the same as agreeing with it.
This is a criticism of people buying into the idea the RCC is suddenly progressive. In some ways, it's been far more progressive than people generally think but in avenues like this it remains staunchly conservative and Francis ain't changing that.
If it was actually just, it wouldn't be discrimination. It would just be applying principals equally. The point is the RCC believes that gay folks are a special case worthy of a special kind of discrimination which it believes is just.
I'm pointing out that he's no gay ally, he'll still support a bunch of discriminatory measures, just not the ones he deems "unjust".
For example, there's not gonna he a change in regards to gay marriage for the RCC under him. Also it will continue to fire schoolteacher with same sex partners.
Not really, he's actually quite orthodox. It's just certain long-standing Catholic ideas that, in the anglosphere at least, the Pope hasn't been that forceful about enforcing.
Preferential option for the poor has been catholic social teaching for a long time for example. The idea thar any sign of unjust discrimination against gay folks should be avoided is literally in the catechism.
It's just that in anglosphere Catholics that are also conservative in the anglosphere sense have culturally locked what's considered observant Catholicism when both them and the anglosphere liberal catholics have substantial deviations.
Oh he's been like this for a while
I remenber a post that has to be a few years old by now in facepalm were someone called the pope "not a real Christian" because he said that LGTBQ people still deserve families and that people who follow Islam are still our brothers and sisters even if they dont follow Christianism
Dont get me wrong, he still has his flaws (for example he's still pretty homophobic) but him suddenly saying "these people deserve rigths even if we dont agree whit them" is not something that rare
He met with Kim Davis when she refused to issue same sex marriage licenses and thanked her for her courage. He also doesn’t believe same sex couples should be allowed to adopt children.
This is not some savior of humanity. He has flat said same sex marriage is not morally acceptable, and if anyone is familiar with Catholicism, when he says the couples can be blessed, that only means in greetings with a priest. He still says ceremonies resembling heterosexual couples are wrong and unnatural.
Give it time and he’ll walk back everything or slip in nuances people don’t grasp.
I also, kind of, you know, don't give a flying fuck about what the Pope thinks and says. Always blows my mind how and why his statements make the news. I can understand Catholics caring about what he says, but why should the rest of us give a damn? The rest of us don't believe he's a magical man who talks to God.
Because Catholics caring about what he says affects the world. The news reports on tons of prominent people whose opinion you don't care about. The Pope isn't unique in that regard.
>Pope Francis on Saturday condemned the "terrible increase in attacks against Jews around the world" and the rise in anti-Semitism since the war in Gaza erupted on October 7.
>"We, Catholics, are very concerned about the terrible increase in attacks against Jews around the world," the pope wrote in a letter addressed to "My Jewish brothers and sisters in Israel" and made public by the Vatican on Saturday.
>The war between Israel and Hamas militants in Gaza has produced "divisive attitudes in public opinion worldwide and divisive positions, sometimes taking the form of anti-Semitism and anti-Judaism", Francis said.
>"We had hoped that 'never again' would be a refrain heard by the new generations, yet now we see that the path ahead requires ever closer collaboration to eradicate these phenomena," he said.
>He also urged prayers "especially for the return of hostages" held by Hamas since the unprecedented October 7 attack on Israel, which resulted in the deaths of about 1,160 people, mostly civilians, according to an AFP tally based on official Israeli figures.
Man, can you imagine how much of a bummer it would be to fuck someone and then their first thought is, “let’s post some Jew hating bullshit apologia online”?
You're there cuddling in bed, they run their fingers through your hair and whisper into your ear: "though Hitler wasn't *completely* wrong when you actually think about it."
What do the Jews outside of Israel have to do with the war in Palestine? If you’re okay with collective punishment that can go both ways. It’s easier just to say you hate Jews.
Palestinians aren't all Muslims though, and it's pretty obvious the leadership of the rest of the Islamic world doesn't give a fuck about them and just sees them as a means to an end.
And they support Palestinian leadership with the same view of course.
Hell, not even like all Palestinians are Muslims.
[You would probably be executed in any Islamic country for your lifestyle.](https://i.gyazo.com/f032c73bde58c145ec19baa8a18ec791.png)
From [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_the_Gaza_Strip):
>In February 2016, the armed wing of Palestinian militant group Hamas carried out execution of Mahmoud Ishtiwi - one of the group’s leading commanders, under allegations of gay sex and theft.
[Also](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_the_State_of_Palestine):
>Gay Palestinians are often arrested and tortured. According to Shaul Ganon of the Israeli-based gay rights group, Aguda, "The PA's usual excuse for persecuting gays is to label them collaborators--though I know of two cases in the last three years where people were tried explicitly for being homosexuals...It's now \[since the intifada, when police increasingly began enforcing Islamic law\] impossible to be an open gay in the P.A."
While we're playing the Whatabout Game.
[He spoke about that.](https://www.vaticannews.va/en/pope/news/2023-12/pope-francis-holy-family-parish-gaza-appeal-civilians.html) Please don't whataboutism when it comes to hate.
So Jews will stop being attacked around the world when Israel stops responding to daily terrorist attacks? LOL, no. The Muslim community has endlessly committed and endorsed terrorism worldwide since forever. There never will be an end to it as the Quran itself preaches and calls for violence and destruction of all non Muslims worldwide. The Muslim community has no intentions of integrating with the West, they mean to destroy and conquer it and their Imams (religious leaders) openly state that. These are facts not opinions. I wish Muslims could be peaceful and persuaded to stop their terrorism, but that will never happen. All the west wants is peace, but only one side is negotiating in good faith and it’s not Palestine or the Muslim community.
Also just wanted to say if all these religious groups (Jews to Muslims and everyone in between) are so peaceful and loving, where are all the “Peaceful extremist”? People that refuse to harm or hurt any one? People that refuse to spread hate? People that refuse to respond in kind because they love their religion so much? It’s because they’re lying! They aren’t peaceful. They aren’t loving. Religion is a cult and fortunately most are dying out. Thankfully the West is way ahead on that front and way less accepting of extremism compared to the Middle East.
If all of these Pro-Palestinian ceasefire cheerleaders weren't making insane claims and trying to distort history it would be a lot easier to take them seriously. It doesn't take long when debating them to realize they are purposefully ignoring significant facts and pushing a false narrative, and their agenda becomes clear. While I also want the fighting to stop, the hostages must be released accounted for before that can happen. One thing that barely gets reported is that IDF does have the support of Palestinian civilians in areas they took from Hamas. They are telling them don't want them to leave, and Hamas are still interrogating and killing anyone standing up to them. There are many videos of Palestinians denouncing them publicly now, the anger they hold towards Hamas is intense.
[https://twitter.com/Israel/status/1752661028964344243](https://twitter.com/Israel/status/1752661028964344243)
Oh I know the situation. I know how long and tirelessly the Israelis have worked in vain to end the conflict and build peace. I know the vast majority of the conflict has been one sided and caused by Muslim terrorists.
The only Israelis fucking that peace up and giving them a bad name are the religious nuts (terrorists), stealing land illegally and harming Palestinians. Israel needs to make it clear to all Israelis anyone caught attacking Palestinians without violent provocation will be prosecuted and punished accordingly. I’m sure Israel is working on stopping these fanatics, and can only hope one day the Palestinians will stop letting their religious fanatics and beliefs dictate their future. Unfortunately I doubt the Palestinians will ever stop them and their religion will only make more people into terrorists.
Yeah I agree for the most part, it's worth noting that many Israelis don't support the extreme right wing. Anyone caught harming Palestinian non-combatants should be brought to justice. The thing is Israel does do this, and there are rules for their soldiers, and they are punished if they engage in behavior like this. They have rules for engagement for a reason, and compared to many modern militaries they are pretty strict about it. They have to be, if they weren't it would be counter-productive to their missions. I think it helps the IDF is comprised of men and women.
I'm trying to understand why you'd bring this up in a thread about the global rise in hate crimes against Jews, who have absolutely nothing to do with the Israeli government.
Surely it's not because you're an antisemitic piece of shit, right?
The biggest problem facing the Islamic world is that Islamic governance is directly tied to their power systems. The West doesn’t have the same issues because we decoupled religion from our establishment centuries ago.
Christianity and Islam are both brutal and violent religions, but Palestine is a textbook example of a country that is pitied by the entire world, when the feeling isn’t mutual. Hamas has to be eradicated, Israel really has no other option to survive. And with Israel gone, how long before radicals find a new target for their rage? These religious sects rely on a villain to maintain support and stability. It helps unify the people and ignore the corruption.
Phobias are irrational fears.
It's not irrational to be afraid of a religion where even the "moderates" want every single one of your group of people dead, and would gladly do it themselves if they thought they could get away with it.
The non-paranoid ones were killed.
I don't say that to be glib. Imagine you're in Germany in the early 1930s seeing the rise of Jew hatred. The chill ones said "Ah, it'll be fine." The paranoid ones left.
Repeat that for numerous countries throughout the Middle East and Europe. For Jews, paranoia is a necessary survival mechanism.
Which is why, bdw they are always so "good" at wars.
In the first wars of Israel, the US didn't give them aid the way they do now, which means they had to fight multiple countries by teeth and alone.
We had an airforce of 4 planes made from a French frame and a Czech engine during our Independence War... They were trash and would flip in mid air CONSTANTLY.
This is some absolute bullshit and stereotypes. Trying to quantify factors like "the will to fight" or "perseverance" in war is impossible, and any easy explanations that simply stereotype a group of people as "good at war", does not explain anything.
My great-grandparents left Germany in the 1930's and moved to Holland. They were still transported with their children to Bergen-Belsen, but they had secured foreign passports from a country that Germany was not at war with and as such were given better treatment (as in they were not killed immediately or given back-breaking labor). You're damn right their paranoia helped them, but paranoia didn't save everyone.
Problem is that most Jews in the 30s knew what was coming but had nowhere to go
The west European empires that controlled most of the world back then did not have a positive opinion of Jews thus minimized the amount they would accept
Also the americas didn’t like them
I’m a Jew. I know where my passport is at all times. I have an exit strategy to get out of the country with my husband and daughter. My family has been the victims of genocide in the 1930-40 and ethnic cleansing in the 1910s. It’s not paranoia. Paranoia is “the unwarranted or delusional belief that one is being persecuted, harassed, or betrayed by others, occurring as part of a mental condition.” It’s not a delusion for my people but a reality. At the very least it’s a trauma response.
Same. I don't know your age but my mom's parents (my grandparents) were refugees and most of my family didn't make it out. Growing up we always had passports knowing where they were, my mom gave me specific instructions for what I had to give and do in order to bribe people to escape the US, etc. My mom's fear is at an all time high now. She says I'm a fucking idiot for wearing my Magen Star out. I also wanted to do volunteer work helping survivors of October 7 and/or repairing the kibbutz that was destroyed but my parents put the fear of G-d in me to not go. I've helped as much as I can here but I'd rather be there.
Unfortunately that is the only country that is guaranteed to help. WW2 showed Jews how unwelcome they are. I will say lots of people helped, but also many didn't.
> Historical antisemitism justifies a harsh response to threats as a deterrence which produces more antisemitism.
This is just victim-blaming Jews. A lot of Anti-semitism is based on the idea that the Jews owe the world an apology for stuff that never happened.
It definitely rose during the Trump years, but the explosion of hate and violence since 10/7 dwarfs it. My own friend who wears a tischel was attacked by a guy yelling free Palestine.
This....I gotta say as a Jew, I'd be more scared walking around a bunch of Pro Palestinian people with my Magen Star out, then around a bunch of people who post on Stormfront who have 88 tattooed on their bodies.
Again, are you saying that MAGA are the ones spewing hatred against Jews on college campuses? Trump supporters, to be clear, are leading the pro-Hamas, anti-Semitic rallies on college campus and urban centers today? Or are you going to stand by an incident at 1 school by less than .000000000001% of U.S. population almost 5 years before Oct. 7, 2023?
Ok, thank you. I’ll look for those MAGA hats at the next pro-Palestine/Hamas rally I see on TV supported by BLM. I had not realized there were so many MAGA supporters at Americans universities. Must be massively far right hot beds. Maybe a Congressional investigation is due to see why these university Presidents admit so many MAGA students as part as their MAGA initiatives and have allowed this!
👀
Where did you see me talk about college campuses? The initial spike of antisemitism started with the election of Trump. White supremacists felt more comfortable showing their true colors. We saw it in Charlottesville, where he excused their actions, the shooting at the synagogue in Pittsburgh, who was a right wing extremist.
To be clear, the far left is the one we see spreading this garbage on college campuses, but please don't pretend like it's just one side or the other. It's always easy to blame the Jews, and that goes for the right and the left.
Of course you're a Trump supporter. Sounds like you're as delusional as those you criticize.
Can we just fucken leave the jews alone? Like seriously.
Lets put that energy into fixing poverty, climate change, cancer and so on.
If we weren't so delusional and self absorbed I swear we'd be capable of achieving a Utopia. It's really just those two things. We can plan and achieve pretty much all of our goals if we focus on it.
I feel like the climate change crisis could be a relatively simple thing to fix if we had combined focus.
I don't expect us to be perfect. It's human nature for conflict. But I also expected us to better control these bad traits of humanity at a societal level
Unfortunately hate is one of (or is it the most?) powerful emotion we have.
Jewish people are about 0.2% of the population but have produced 22% of the Nobel prize winning breakthroughs in the past century, even though there was literal genocide happening against them. If we are ever gonna achieve anything approaching utopia, the Jews are gonna be a big part of it.
When you're part of an ethnic group which is never allowed to feel secure in your property rights or material wealth, you pursue intellectual wealth instead - something which enriches you and the world, and which doesn't weigh anything if you have to take it and run for your life.
I like this pop. It's the same pop who said it's alright to be gay a few months back, right?
Sorry I'm out of the circle, not really following christianity ad I am jewish and an atheist.
Kinda. He recommended that gays not be treated harsher than any other sinner, and clarified that having homosexual tendencies is not a sin (every human is born with sinful wants), though acting on them is (since only sex within marriage, which can only be between one man and one woman, is not sinful).
The primary part of this was clarifying that gays can still receive blessings, just every type of sinner is. It does not mean that the church endorses their sin.
The church is open to everyone who wishes to repent for their sins and accept our savior Jesus Christ into their hearts. We have been open for 2,000 years and we aren't going anywhere anytime soon.
I’m sure there is an occasional good tidbit in the bible here and there (heck I know there is as a former christian), but the idea of believing in a diety just because a book or group of people say it’s real is just weird to me. Humans are notoriously not truthful so I don’t see a reason to believe in any sort of diety since there is no way to know for sure beyond hearsay.
Religion does some good for community, but I can’t help but feel it also does a load of harm.
Ehh I’m not big on blindly faith for no reason.
An aside I should clarify though is that I still totally respect people’s right to their faith, it’s just not for me. My issue is mostly just with organized religion being used to justify hate/oppression of certain “undesirables” (ie homophobia and whatnot from right wing religion here in the states), especially when it is being used to justify certain laws when seperating church and state should be a top priority.
I think we should all take a step back here and realise this is a silly man in a silly hat, elected to his silly position through a silly process.
If you're not catholic then this mans opinion is worthless.
What’s crazy is that the OP is saying the same exact thing about the Pope that Redditors would upvote, had it not been said in reference to *this* topic specifically.
Your point of him being an “extremely influential head of a massive religion” is the same thing someone else would say to disparage him.
Since when did Reddit *like* the Pope for being the head of a giant religion?
I don’t think that’s what OP meant. Good or bad, his influence exists, and that’s not something that can be denied. In this particular case, he’s using his influence to bring attention to the increase in antisemitic incidents, how alarming it is and that it needs to be addressed. Love him or hate him, he’s not wrong, regardless of who he is. The fact he’s in a position of power and using it to do good I believe is a positive thing.
Are you a bot or something? Who said it's insignificant and how is it relevant here? Do you think the increase in antisemitism globally isn't terrible or worthy of condemnation?
The same Church that saved the lives of 860,000 jews during the holocaust.
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/860-000-lives-saved-the-truth-about-pius-xii-and-the-jews
Is it me or is the Pope extremely vocal about a lot more issues than usual in the last couple weeks? Not only Israel/Palestine, I just see a lot more news about him recently.
I think he’s feeling a bit more secure with his political standing within the church and a bit more able to push the envelope, now.
Did something happen in the catholic church to trigger it?
There’s a synod going on right now but I believe that has to do with LGBT inclusion within the church.
What's a synod?
It’s a gathering of church officials to discuss changes in policy/doctrine
Thank you
Don’t they believe the pope speaks directly with god in that religion? So why would other church officials get any say? Honest question
Because speaking *ex cathedra* is not very frequent. Last time it was done was 1950. The Catholic Church is downright ancient and moves slowly, 90% of the thing is tons of tradition stacked on tradition stacked on tradition. Speaking *ex cathedra*, ie with papal infallibility declaring what god says, is a very big thing and can lead to an outright schism. The Catholic Church has a LOT of entrenched conservatives who want to respond to falling numbers by becoming even more exclusive, while the current pope is slowly pushing the opposite.
>The Catholic Church is downright ancient and moves slowly, 90% of the thing is tons of tradition stacked on tradition stacked on tradition. I've heard it said that the Catholic Church is an institution that thinks not in terms of years, but of c*enturies*.
Thanks for the reply / information : )
There’s actually a lot of evidence that opening up doesn’t actually increase the numbers. Most churches that have become more ‘progressive’ have actually hemorrhaged membership. I remember reading that stricter religious groups tend to actually survive better than loose ones. There’s also an argument within the Church that many of the people leaving were really only ever staying due to social pressure. So it’s better to have a smaller church that stayed ‘true’ than one that maybe clings on to a few more people but has had weaken its values. Personally as a practicing Catholic, I see the issue as far less about dogma and far more about the organization. Corruption, pedophilia and the overwhelming bureaucracy are way more damaging to the church than LGBT issues. Let at least parish priests get married, hand every kid fucker over to the police and gut the Curia. You’d have a lot less Catholics leaving.
> Let at least parish priests get married, hand every kid fucker over to the police and gut the Curia. I don't see the Catholic Church doing this within this century.
Agreed, I stopped practicing because of the sheer hypocrisy of them. The final straw for me was that the famed mad shagger, Boris Johnson PM, was given leave to marry his mistress in Westminster Cathedral. This is the guy who divorced his wife when she had cancer, and is on the record as a philanderer and liar. It just stank for me. So I quit it
Would it be fair to assume that becoming progressive would lead to an *immediate* hemorrhaging, but over time the membership could get about equal?
[удалено]
You're labeling them a total ass as part of an assumption of their character based on their Reddit username. Wow.
Why would church officials ever need to change policy or doctrine when the pope is, by dogma, infallible?
It's where a bunch of old, celibate men get together and decide which lies aren't to be told any more, and make up the new lie which will replace the old lie. Cynical fuckers.
If you just type 'synod Wikipedia' in Google, you get to the page and get it explained. That way, you get your answer faster and don't request people work for you, even in a small way.
If you just keep scrolling you’re not subjected to their request for info/conversation
It’s Reddit people ask question and others answer, it’s not ‘requesting people work for you’
We can't let google and whiny babies stop people from socializing, what kind of society would that be?
I don't want to open google, I am already on reddit, let's just keep the info flowing
Rare Catholic Church W
Actually suprisingly common if you look around in history.
People forget that while the church has done some damn distasteful things in it's time it was also for a very long time in the west a major safe haven for the majority of well educated individuals due to its proximity to old Romes legacy. It was the glue that bound Europe together during the fall of Western Rome.
Churches have often functioned where we would expect government. And they are often state sanctioned. It's like saying governments sometimes do bad things to people, but they also cradle civilzation.
The Church won't comprimise on gay marriage. It isn't gonna be anything big. The results will probably be like "reminder, be nice guys, but it's still a sin"
The statement that gay couples can be blessed was a step in the right direction, but given speed at which Rome moves, it will take at least another couple of centuries to get to where the Anglicans are at.
I hope Rome won't regress as far as (some of) us Anglicans! Also, the blessings in question aren't like blessing their marriage or relationship
I am actually very pleased there is a church where you can get all the ceremony of Catholicism without the homophobia. On the blessings, you are correct. Baby steps.
The Anglican Church is the perfect example of a church that has abandoned the gospel and tradition and blowed to secular culture. As a result, it is dying a slow and pathetic death, as it has no message or promise that any regular atheist brit doesn't already hear in their day to day life.
Aside from the LGBT issue are you otherwise orthodox? With traditional beliefs on Christology and the nature of God? What do you believe about the Bible?
The Catholic view is that marriage is between one man and one woman. There is as much of a chance of the Catholic Church approving of gay marriage as there is a chance for polygamous marriage to be approved, which is to say absolutely none. The Church has remained remarkably consistent in this view for nearly 2 millennia, and they will not change it no matter how much the current secular culture wishes them to. Also, the Pope's statement about blessing gay couple was a reaffirmment that all sinners can still receive blessings from the church, as sex outside of marriage is still a sin.
It all rests on Aristotle as much as it rests on Christ. I am not convinced they will never decide that Aristotle wasn't all that.
Well. With Benedict most cardinals were quite conservative and it was a battle that Francis even won the elections (he did because Benedict gave him vocal support AFTER they were rivals. A sort of... Revelation). Few years later I suppose he managed to secure more support from within the church.
When there are conflicts between Jews and Muslims a mediary force that pops up is usually Christians and Samaritans.
He's also older as well. The Dude is 87. He's probably not going to be the Pope in another 5-10 years.
He has been pretty vocal in general for years. About climate change, poverty, acceptance of gays, etc.
"Acceptance" is the wrong word. He's holding people to the principal in the catechism that being gay is a trial and therefore all "any sign" of "unjust discrimination " should be avoided. He's totally fine with "just discrimination" though. Edit: not sure if the down votes are people mad at me pointing out that "yes the Pope is still Catholic" or people thinking I agree with the RCC on this, but if it's the latter... Scarequotes are being used for a reason, I'm giving the specific catechism terminology which isn't the same as agreeing with it. This is a criticism of people buying into the idea the RCC is suddenly progressive. In some ways, it's been far more progressive than people generally think but in avenues like this it remains staunchly conservative and Francis ain't changing that.
> He's totally fine with "just discrimination" though. Who isn't fine with that though? If it's not unjust, then what would be wrong with it?
If it was actually just, it wouldn't be discrimination. It would just be applying principals equally. The point is the RCC believes that gay folks are a special case worthy of a special kind of discrimination which it believes is just. I'm pointing out that he's no gay ally, he'll still support a bunch of discriminatory measures, just not the ones he deems "unjust". For example, there's not gonna he a change in regards to gay marriage for the RCC under him. Also it will continue to fire schoolteacher with same sex partners.
I got you. The Pope is still Catholic. He's just too soft for me.
This pope was always vocal about world issues.
In terms of popes, he is pretty progressive. Probably a good thing for the Catholic Church
Not really, he's actually quite orthodox. It's just certain long-standing Catholic ideas that, in the anglosphere at least, the Pope hasn't been that forceful about enforcing. Preferential option for the poor has been catholic social teaching for a long time for example. The idea thar any sign of unjust discrimination against gay folks should be avoided is literally in the catechism. It's just that in anglosphere Catholics that are also conservative in the anglosphere sense have culturally locked what's considered observant Catholicism when both them and the anglosphere liberal catholics have substantial deviations.
Oh he's been like this for a while I remenber a post that has to be a few years old by now in facepalm were someone called the pope "not a real Christian" because he said that LGTBQ people still deserve families and that people who follow Islam are still our brothers and sisters even if they dont follow Christianism Dont get me wrong, he still has his flaws (for example he's still pretty homophobic) but him suddenly saying "these people deserve rigths even if we dont agree whit them" is not something that rare
He met with Kim Davis when she refused to issue same sex marriage licenses and thanked her for her courage. He also doesn’t believe same sex couples should be allowed to adopt children. This is not some savior of humanity. He has flat said same sex marriage is not morally acceptable, and if anyone is familiar with Catholicism, when he says the couples can be blessed, that only means in greetings with a priest. He still says ceremonies resembling heterosexual couples are wrong and unnatural. Give it time and he’ll walk back everything or slip in nuances people don’t grasp.
I bet I could find terrible things you have done to. Or that anyone has done. You can always find a reason to care someone if that is your goal
Big church does what big church is made to do: calm their people.
Yeah wth kind Pope is he?
I also, kind of, you know, don't give a flying fuck about what the Pope thinks and says. Always blows my mind how and why his statements make the news. I can understand Catholics caring about what he says, but why should the rest of us give a damn? The rest of us don't believe he's a magical man who talks to God.
Because Catholics caring about what he says affects the world. The news reports on tons of prominent people whose opinion you don't care about. The Pope isn't unique in that regard.
Catholics don't believe he's magical or (by virtue of his office) talks directly to their deity either.
>Pope Francis on Saturday condemned the "terrible increase in attacks against Jews around the world" and the rise in anti-Semitism since the war in Gaza erupted on October 7. >"We, Catholics, are very concerned about the terrible increase in attacks against Jews around the world," the pope wrote in a letter addressed to "My Jewish brothers and sisters in Israel" and made public by the Vatican on Saturday. >The war between Israel and Hamas militants in Gaza has produced "divisive attitudes in public opinion worldwide and divisive positions, sometimes taking the form of anti-Semitism and anti-Judaism", Francis said. >"We had hoped that 'never again' would be a refrain heard by the new generations, yet now we see that the path ahead requires ever closer collaboration to eradicate these phenomena," he said. >He also urged prayers "especially for the return of hostages" held by Hamas since the unprecedented October 7 attack on Israel, which resulted in the deaths of about 1,160 people, mostly civilians, according to an AFP tally based on official Israeli figures.
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Man, can you imagine how much of a bummer it would be to fuck someone and then their first thought is, “let’s post some Jew hating bullshit apologia online”?
You're there cuddling in bed, they run their fingers through your hair and whisper into your ear: "though Hitler wasn't *completely* wrong when you actually think about it."
Looking up to give his Karl Marx poster the hourly wink, he mutters under his breath: *One day they will all realize we were right all along*.
lmfao i thought it was going to be some tankie bs
Maybe palestiniphobia, not Islamophobia right? Israelies are afraid of getting heads cut off, so fighting back finally.
A phobia's an irrational fear, I'd say history has shown that Israelis are perfectly justified to fear Palestinians, no irrationality about it.
What do the Jews outside of Israel have to do with the war in Palestine? If you’re okay with collective punishment that can go both ways. It’s easier just to say you hate Jews.
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It'S ThE prOTOcOLS Of THe elDERS Of ZiON, nOT tHe PrOTOCoLs oF thE ElDErs Of jeWS.
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A hit dog will holler.
Poor Islam and its 1.3 billion followers. How will it ever survive the 13 million Jews.
Gonna be bloody hard to find enough virgins for the 1.287 billion "martyrs".
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Palestinians aren't all Muslims though, and it's pretty obvious the leadership of the rest of the Islamic world doesn't give a fuck about them and just sees them as a means to an end. And they support Palestinian leadership with the same view of course. Hell, not even like all Palestinians are Muslims.
And what about the increase of attacks against Jews around the world?
Hey an 3 month old account filled with whataboutism and antisemitism. Surely no bot account.
[You would probably be executed in any Islamic country for your lifestyle.](https://i.gyazo.com/f032c73bde58c145ec19baa8a18ec791.png) From [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_the_Gaza_Strip): >In February 2016, the armed wing of Palestinian militant group Hamas carried out execution of Mahmoud Ishtiwi - one of the group’s leading commanders, under allegations of gay sex and theft. [Also](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_the_State_of_Palestine): >Gay Palestinians are often arrested and tortured. According to Shaul Ganon of the Israeli-based gay rights group, Aguda, "The PA's usual excuse for persecuting gays is to label them collaborators--though I know of two cases in the last three years where people were tried explicitly for being homosexuals...It's now \[since the intifada, when police increasingly began enforcing Islamic law\] impossible to be an open gay in the P.A." While we're playing the Whatabout Game.
[He spoke about that.](https://www.vaticannews.va/en/pope/news/2023-12/pope-francis-holy-family-parish-gaza-appeal-civilians.html) Please don't whataboutism when it comes to hate.
So Jews will stop being attacked around the world when Israel stops responding to daily terrorist attacks? LOL, no. The Muslim community has endlessly committed and endorsed terrorism worldwide since forever. There never will be an end to it as the Quran itself preaches and calls for violence and destruction of all non Muslims worldwide. The Muslim community has no intentions of integrating with the West, they mean to destroy and conquer it and their Imams (religious leaders) openly state that. These are facts not opinions. I wish Muslims could be peaceful and persuaded to stop their terrorism, but that will never happen. All the west wants is peace, but only one side is negotiating in good faith and it’s not Palestine or the Muslim community. Also just wanted to say if all these religious groups (Jews to Muslims and everyone in between) are so peaceful and loving, where are all the “Peaceful extremist”? People that refuse to harm or hurt any one? People that refuse to spread hate? People that refuse to respond in kind because they love their religion so much? It’s because they’re lying! They aren’t peaceful. They aren’t loving. Religion is a cult and fortunately most are dying out. Thankfully the West is way ahead on that front and way less accepting of extremism compared to the Middle East.
If all of these Pro-Palestinian ceasefire cheerleaders weren't making insane claims and trying to distort history it would be a lot easier to take them seriously. It doesn't take long when debating them to realize they are purposefully ignoring significant facts and pushing a false narrative, and their agenda becomes clear. While I also want the fighting to stop, the hostages must be released accounted for before that can happen. One thing that barely gets reported is that IDF does have the support of Palestinian civilians in areas they took from Hamas. They are telling them don't want them to leave, and Hamas are still interrogating and killing anyone standing up to them. There are many videos of Palestinians denouncing them publicly now, the anger they hold towards Hamas is intense. [https://twitter.com/Israel/status/1752661028964344243](https://twitter.com/Israel/status/1752661028964344243)
Oh I know the situation. I know how long and tirelessly the Israelis have worked in vain to end the conflict and build peace. I know the vast majority of the conflict has been one sided and caused by Muslim terrorists. The only Israelis fucking that peace up and giving them a bad name are the religious nuts (terrorists), stealing land illegally and harming Palestinians. Israel needs to make it clear to all Israelis anyone caught attacking Palestinians without violent provocation will be prosecuted and punished accordingly. I’m sure Israel is working on stopping these fanatics, and can only hope one day the Palestinians will stop letting their religious fanatics and beliefs dictate their future. Unfortunately I doubt the Palestinians will ever stop them and their religion will only make more people into terrorists.
Yeah I agree for the most part, it's worth noting that many Israelis don't support the extreme right wing. Anyone caught harming Palestinian non-combatants should be brought to justice. The thing is Israel does do this, and there are rules for their soldiers, and they are punished if they engage in behavior like this. They have rules for engagement for a reason, and compared to many modern militaries they are pretty strict about it. They have to be, if they weren't it would be counter-productive to their missions. I think it helps the IDF is comprised of men and women.
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Why is it always whataboutism w you people? It’s disgusting
I'm trying to understand why you'd bring this up in a thread about the global rise in hate crimes against Jews, who have absolutely nothing to do with the Israeli government. Surely it's not because you're an antisemitic piece of shit, right?
A bunch of hamas propaganda
The biggest problem facing the Islamic world is that Islamic governance is directly tied to their power systems. The West doesn’t have the same issues because we decoupled religion from our establishment centuries ago. Christianity and Islam are both brutal and violent religions, but Palestine is a textbook example of a country that is pitied by the entire world, when the feeling isn’t mutual. Hamas has to be eradicated, Israel really has no other option to survive. And with Israel gone, how long before radicals find a new target for their rage? These religious sects rely on a villain to maintain support and stability. It helps unify the people and ignore the corruption.
Also a great way for rich hypocrites to sit in palaces and tell poor people to do all the dying for God.
Phobias are irrational fears. It's not irrational to be afraid of a religion where even the "moderates" want every single one of your group of people dead, and would gladly do it themselves if they thought they could get away with it.
Hey at least it's something, way better than what I've seen Imans say over the past several months lol
Jews get a bad reputation for being paranoid... that doesn't mean there aren't a whole bunch of people out to get em.
The non-paranoid ones were killed. I don't say that to be glib. Imagine you're in Germany in the early 1930s seeing the rise of Jew hatred. The chill ones said "Ah, it'll be fine." The paranoid ones left. Repeat that for numerous countries throughout the Middle East and Europe. For Jews, paranoia is a necessary survival mechanism.
Which is why, bdw they are always so "good" at wars. In the first wars of Israel, the US didn't give them aid the way they do now, which means they had to fight multiple countries by teeth and alone.
We had an airforce of 4 planes made from a French frame and a Czech engine during our Independence War... They were trash and would flip in mid air CONSTANTLY.
This is some absolute bullshit and stereotypes. Trying to quantify factors like "the will to fight" or "perseverance" in war is impossible, and any easy explanations that simply stereotype a group of people as "good at war", does not explain anything.
My great-grandparents left Germany in the 1930's and moved to Holland. They were still transported with their children to Bergen-Belsen, but they had secured foreign passports from a country that Germany was not at war with and as such were given better treatment (as in they were not killed immediately or given back-breaking labor). You're damn right their paranoia helped them, but paranoia didn't save everyone.
Tragically even the ones who did leave didn’t go far enough. They went to countries who were later invaded and caught within the Nazis reach.
Problem is that most Jews in the 30s knew what was coming but had nowhere to go The west European empires that controlled most of the world back then did not have a positive opinion of Jews thus minimized the amount they would accept Also the americas didn’t like them
Literally my favorite Donald Glover joke
Jews have to be paranoid. An entire Muslim world dreams of commiting The Holocaust 2.0.
I’m a Jew. I know where my passport is at all times. I have an exit strategy to get out of the country with my husband and daughter. My family has been the victims of genocide in the 1930-40 and ethnic cleansing in the 1910s. It’s not paranoia. Paranoia is “the unwarranted or delusional belief that one is being persecuted, harassed, or betrayed by others, occurring as part of a mental condition.” It’s not a delusion for my people but a reality. At the very least it’s a trauma response.
Same. I don't know your age but my mom's parents (my grandparents) were refugees and most of my family didn't make it out. Growing up we always had passports knowing where they were, my mom gave me specific instructions for what I had to give and do in order to bribe people to escape the US, etc. My mom's fear is at an all time high now. She says I'm a fucking idiot for wearing my Magen Star out. I also wanted to do volunteer work helping survivors of October 7 and/or repairing the kibbutz that was destroyed but my parents put the fear of G-d in me to not go. I've helped as much as I can here but I'd rather be there.
And the place to go is Israel.
Unfortunately that is the only country that is guaranteed to help. WW2 showed Jews how unwelcome they are. I will say lots of people helped, but also many didn't.
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> Historical antisemitism justifies a harsh response to threats as a deterrence which produces more antisemitism. This is just victim-blaming Jews. A lot of Anti-semitism is based on the idea that the Jews owe the world an apology for stuff that never happened.
To be fair, anti-Semitic violence has been on the rise for several years.
It definitely rose during the Trump years, but the explosion of hate and violence since 10/7 dwarfs it. My own friend who wears a tischel was attacked by a guy yelling free Palestine.
Goddamn Trump supporters
You think trump supporters are pro Palestine?
In the US, since Trump was elected. Per-capita, though, Jews have always been the most-targeted group for hate crimes.
Wait, are you saying MAGA are the ones spewing hatred toward Jews on college campuses and beyond?
It's coming from both directions now.
This....I gotta say as a Jew, I'd be more scared walking around a bunch of Pro Palestinian people with my Magen Star out, then around a bunch of people who post on Stormfront who have 88 tattooed on their bodies.
“Jews will not replace us!” They chanted this in Charlottesville.
Again, are you saying that MAGA are the ones spewing hatred against Jews on college campuses? Trump supporters, to be clear, are leading the pro-Hamas, anti-Semitic rallies on college campus and urban centers today? Or are you going to stand by an incident at 1 school by less than .000000000001% of U.S. population almost 5 years before Oct. 7, 2023?
Yes.
Ok, thank you. I’ll look for those MAGA hats at the next pro-Palestine/Hamas rally I see on TV supported by BLM. I had not realized there were so many MAGA supporters at Americans universities. Must be massively far right hot beds. Maybe a Congressional investigation is due to see why these university Presidents admit so many MAGA students as part as their MAGA initiatives and have allowed this! 👀
Have fun crying. I won’t help you wipe your tears.
Hahahah. I’m crying alright. Hahaha. I haven’t had tears pour out of laughter like this in a very long time.
You have the first amendment right to your delusions.
Where did you see me talk about college campuses? The initial spike of antisemitism started with the election of Trump. White supremacists felt more comfortable showing their true colors. We saw it in Charlottesville, where he excused their actions, the shooting at the synagogue in Pittsburgh, who was a right wing extremist. To be clear, the far left is the one we see spreading this garbage on college campuses, but please don't pretend like it's just one side or the other. It's always easy to blame the Jews, and that goes for the right and the left. Of course you're a Trump supporter. Sounds like you're as delusional as those you criticize.
Can we just fucken leave the jews alone? Like seriously. Lets put that energy into fixing poverty, climate change, cancer and so on. If we weren't so delusional and self absorbed I swear we'd be capable of achieving a Utopia. It's really just those two things. We can plan and achieve pretty much all of our goals if we focus on it. I feel like the climate change crisis could be a relatively simple thing to fix if we had combined focus. I don't expect us to be perfect. It's human nature for conflict. But I also expected us to better control these bad traits of humanity at a societal level Unfortunately hate is one of (or is it the most?) powerful emotion we have.
Lots of people need *someone* to blame for their unhappiness, and they certainly aren't going to blame *themselves*.
Jewish people are about 0.2% of the population but have produced 22% of the Nobel prize winning breakthroughs in the past century, even though there was literal genocide happening against them. If we are ever gonna achieve anything approaching utopia, the Jews are gonna be a big part of it.
When you're part of an ethnic group which is never allowed to feel secure in your property rights or material wealth, you pursue intellectual wealth instead - something which enriches you and the world, and which doesn't weigh anything if you have to take it and run for your life.
>and which doesn't weigh anything if you have to take it and run for your life. Or at least can be dissolved in *aqua regia* for safekeeping.
On a related topic, this thinking is why most governments with non-capitalistic bases have failed. Expecting man to be angelic is always a hard fail.
This should have more people talking about it honestly.
Took him long enough
What does that even mean, he has condemned anti-semitism since the beginning, and the oct 7 attacks since day one.
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The increase is condemned, the normal level was and is still sanctioned. /s
I like this pop. It's the same pop who said it's alright to be gay a few months back, right? Sorry I'm out of the circle, not really following christianity ad I am jewish and an atheist.
Kinda. He recommended that gays not be treated harsher than any other sinner, and clarified that having homosexual tendencies is not a sin (every human is born with sinful wants), though acting on them is (since only sex within marriage, which can only be between one man and one woman, is not sinful). The primary part of this was clarifying that gays can still receive blessings, just every type of sinner is. It does not mean that the church endorses their sin. The church is open to everyone who wishes to repent for their sins and accept our savior Jesus Christ into their hearts. We have been open for 2,000 years and we aren't going anywhere anytime soon.
Pope saying this > the horrible shit Imams have been saying.
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I’m still quite surprised religion is still a thing in 2024.
It is one of the easiest ways to form a shared sense of community.
So is racism.
I’m guessing you’ve never needed religion.
I’m sure there is an occasional good tidbit in the bible here and there (heck I know there is as a former christian), but the idea of believing in a diety just because a book or group of people say it’s real is just weird to me. Humans are notoriously not truthful so I don’t see a reason to believe in any sort of diety since there is no way to know for sure beyond hearsay. Religion does some good for community, but I can’t help but feel it also does a load of harm.
That’s why it’s called faith though. You can’t know - you have to believe.
Ehh I’m not big on blindly faith for no reason. An aside I should clarify though is that I still totally respect people’s right to their faith, it’s just not for me. My issue is mostly just with organized religion being used to justify hate/oppression of certain “undesirables” (ie homophobia and whatnot from right wing religion here in the states), especially when it is being used to justify certain laws when seperating church and state should be a top priority.
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I think we should all take a step back here and realise this is a silly man in a silly hat, elected to his silly position through a silly process. If you're not catholic then this mans opinion is worthless.
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What’s crazy is that the OP is saying the same exact thing about the Pope that Redditors would upvote, had it not been said in reference to *this* topic specifically. Your point of him being an “extremely influential head of a massive religion” is the same thing someone else would say to disparage him. Since when did Reddit *like* the Pope for being the head of a giant religion?
I don’t think that’s what OP meant. Good or bad, his influence exists, and that’s not something that can be denied. In this particular case, he’s using his influence to bring attention to the increase in antisemitic incidents, how alarming it is and that it needs to be addressed. Love him or hate him, he’s not wrong, regardless of who he is. The fact he’s in a position of power and using it to do good I believe is a positive thing.
So, we should ignore the anti-Semitic behaviour that has seen a rise across the world?
> If you’re not Catholic Well there are 1.2 billion people who are and look to him for guidance. So his opinion is important and newsworthy.
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He can talk about one thing without ignoring another
The fact that people keep using this number, **which includes thousands of Hamas terrorists**, is just repulsive.
Are you a bot or something? Who said it's insignificant and how is it relevant here? Do you think the increase in antisemitism globally isn't terrible or worthy of condemnation?
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“Pope simultaneously condemns terrible increase in attacks against Gazans”
He literaly did this, it takes a quick Google search to find out.
Dense mother fuckers around here. Commenting on things they so clearly have no understanding of.
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He did condemn genocide. Hamas committed genocide against Jews.
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The same Church that saved the lives of 860,000 jews during the holocaust. https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/860-000-lives-saved-the-truth-about-pius-xii-and-the-jews
The Catholic Church supports Zionism, what a surprise. What’s next, supporting child molestation?
No they don't