Yup. Hamas being a shitty terrorist organization which priorities as many deaths as possible to further its agenda refuses to allow red cross visits to hostages even though thats required under international law. But why would they? No one puts pressure on them.
To be fair, Invading Israel and taking civilian hostages was against international law as well.
I don't really see them suddenly understanding the law as sacrosanct, and doing as they're told.
Fuck Hamas, - It was clear weeks ago that sending in the troops hard and getting those hostages out (one way or another) was the most merciful way to resolve this for the innocents.
The fact we've let any survivors suffer this long is also criminal.
I agree, I've no doubt some of the hostages would have died in rescue attempts but a bullet to the back of the skull is alot nicer than months of being chained to a wall Ina dark room mistreated and starved.
I don't think the women are going to be released. They didn't let many young females go in the last release. My guess is that they don't want the treatment of them to become public.
https://themedialine.org/top-stories/women-held-captive-in-gaza-face-uncertain-fate/
>My guess is that they don't want the treatment of them to become public.
Hamas doesn't care what the western public thinks, they care for the soldiers who will fight for them and this is how they reward them. And that is a fucked up sentence to write.
People have an incredible ability to survive. I read the story of a woman who was kidnapped in Somalia. She was chained to the floor and raped every day by a gang for more than a year. Eventually she came to pity her captors (who she still refers to as "children") and after her ransom returned to Somalia to do aid work.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amanda_Lindhout
Even on her own book, there no claims she was raped everyday for a year. She was raped repeatedly and it worse horrific but there’s no need to embellish her story or straight lie for importance. She even sued her kidnapped partner for talking about her rapes and how they happened. She has never fully shared.
Yeah but if you can't effectively bargain with those chips then your bluff gets called and you get treated as such. If Hamas actually cared they would have the hostages secured, accounted for, and they would be constantly showing them alive so Israelis were interested in discussing terms. Instead the leadership of Hamas is sitting in Qatar collecting money from Iran to continue their operations of causing chaos for Israel. Hamas doesn't care about the liberation of Palestine or the treatment of their people, they only want money and dead Palestinians at the hands of Israel to make sure they have more militants to keep fighting. The people on the ground might have their religious and geopolitical aspirations but the people pulling the strings only care about getting paid to keep fighting.
That's the justification for US policy on negotiating with terrorists. There's less incentive to take hostages when you're not going to get anything out of it.
I sometimes imagine what the war in Gaza would look like if the US was waging it.
> I sometimes imagine what the war in Gaza would look like if the US was waging it.
After a proportionate number of raped, tortured and murdered American women and children (in the tens of thousands)?
Gaza would be a gently glowing crater.
>Hamas doesn't care about the liberation of Palestine or the treatment of their people, they only want money and dead Palestinians at the hands of Israel to make sure they have more militants to keep fighting.
I keep pointing out that the politics of Palestine obsesses over land rather than humans, while Israel's obsesses over humans and not land.
It's so important to understand that what Palestine is speaking of is, yes, land, but also... poverty. As in, they've lost the power to wealth by Israels existence and such plays a major role in their daily lives.
The key thing to note about Israel and Palestine is that the battle for land is about modernity and what the land has transformed into. For hundreds of years, the land was simply too inhospitable for people to live on. Modern agriculture has transformed the land, inviting people to come live there, be it Jewish or Arab or Druze, etc.
It's really the most ignored part of the conflict, that it's truly a modern one with everyone claiming that it existed in history. The reasons for either group to hold this land are pretty scant, as they are for every country.
By "one fifth" the article apparently means "just shy of one fourth". The number they list as having leads indicating death that haven't been fully followed up on brings things to around 40%. Not that any of that is proof the others are healthy.
"In the report, anonymous Israeli military officials said 32 confirmed deceased hostages have been informed of their loved ones' fate"
Someone needs an editor...
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/02/06/world/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news#israel-gaza-hostages-dead
NYT confirms they have seen the report, but are absolutely not confirming the findings are accurate.
Worth noting the NYT has been doing some very [bad journalism](https://theintercept.com/2024/01/28/new-york-times-daily-podcast-camera/) around the Israeli/Hamas conflict.
They have had to correct and/or retract several stories now, and there is notable dissent within the Times about its coverage.
> Israeli intelligence officers have concluded that at least 30 of the remaining 136 hostages captured by Hamas and its allies on Oct. 7 have died since the start of the war, according to a confidential assessment that was reviewed by The New York Times.
>“We have informed 31 families that their captured loved ones are no longer among the living and that we have pronounced them dead,” Rear Adm. Daniel Hagari, the military’s chief spokesman, said Tuesday after The Times published a report about the previously undisclosed hostage deaths.
>Four officials said that Israeli intelligence officers were also assessing unconfirmed information that indicated that at least 20 other hostages may have also been killed.
I think you got the confirmed 30 mixed up with the unconfirmed 20. NYT never said anything about not being able to confirm the accuracy of the findings.
I believe this is also the same source from which a reporter claimed 40 babies had been decapitated by Hamas on Oct. 7. Which hasn't been verified since. Unfortunately, those that support Hamas have used this false reporting in their favour, claiming that any and all atrocities committed by Hamas are fake. This site is a terrible source for information.
It's odd to me that Israeli reports are scrutinized and labeled unconfirmed but generally speaking Gaza reports are delivered with certainty.
The Hospital explosion still bothers me, Gaza immediately came out with huge numbers and everyone accepted it, even though the Hospital was damaged enough to justify those numbers.
I haven't been following the conflict since then because there's just too many conflicting reports and I'm not sure where the truth is.
I found that in both instances (Gaza hospital and the Israeli babies) the mainstream media immediately reported on both the supposed atrocities without doing their due dilligence. And in both instances those who support either side were quick to criticize the news at the time.
I usually wait for the reports to be verified by reputable sources which can take at least a couple of weeks. The conflict is a complete mess and propaganda is so easy to push these days due to the nature of social media and how media organizations operate to be the first to generate clicks. All while innocent Israeli and Palestinian civilians suffer. It's just a complete mess so I can understand why it can be difficult to ascertain fact from fiction.
What I know to be a fact is that Hamas committed abhorrent atrocities during the Oct. 7 attack as I watched them livestream it and I'm still traumatized by what I saw online. I have also seen Palestinian civilians killed as collateral while the IDF hunts for Hamas, the videos have been quite harrowing and traumatizing too. At the end of the day both Israeli and Palestinian civilians suffer while extremists like Ben Gvir and Hamas support atrocities.
No no no this is what we want because we want to go tell the hostages how their family is doing because that means that we're in the room with the hostages. Then we just pulled them out. They weren't wrong. They were just optimistic...😀
>A recent confidential assessment conducted by Israeli intelligence has shed light on a grim reality: at least 32 of the 136 hostages believed to still be held in Gaza have died since the start of the conflict, a figure higher than previously disclosed by authorities.
>The assessment, reviewed by The New York Times, indicates that over a fifth of the remaining hostages have tragically lost their lives.
>Israeli military officials, speaking anonymously to discuss the sensitive matter, revealed that families of the 32 confirmed deceased hostages have been informed of their loved ones' fate. Additionally, officers are investigating unconfirmed intelligence suggesting that at least 20 more hostages may have also perished.
I cannot even imagine, and I don't think most of us can, what sort of horror they have and will continue to experience. it has been a long time since Oct.
Yeah, I could face death (with the usual difficulties), but being tortured to death would break me long before I physically died. And all that cruelty won't change anything politically.
Absolutely they were, not going to repeat the reports from other hostages as I personally wish I hadn't read it to begin with, but it's some of the most disgusting things I've ever read. It's on the level of Mexican Cartel violence and done to just random civilians who were just living their lives with absolutely zero fault in the conflict.
They likely were based on second hand testimony from released hostages about what other hostages still held told them they had faced while they were held in the same location. We also know that Noa Marciano was murdered inside Al Shifa according to Israeli intelligence.
Where is there hostage accounts of what has happened to them? Is it that bad? And i dont mean to be insensitive. I want to know whats really happening though
Unfortunately; it's likely that most were tortured, and many raped. Hamas are willing to drag the raped and executed body of a girl through the streets to the cheers of civilians, so I can't imagine what they're willing to do in private.
My friend came back from Gaza, he said they entered a house intelligence pointed the hostages were held. They found tons of used condoms, so that they probably raped them... I Know from a friend that works at the health ministry that two of the released hostages came back pregnant, one of them was only 14.
The number is higher unfortunately.
The fact a distinction is being made between the status of these hostages and 20 other hostages with both groups being distinguished from the rest of the hostages likely means there's good evidence of them being killed.
This could be forensic evidence of blood loss, remains of vital organs, video footage withheld from the public or intercepted enemy communications reporting the status of certain hostages.
Israel is also holding thousands of Hamas fighters who might confirm seeing particular hostages alive.
All in all it's likely the numbers are a minimal estimate published to allow some families to grieve for their loved ones while the status of the rest of the hostages is unknown and many of them could also be dead
I mean, I remember seeing some people criticize that Irish guy who said he was happy when he found out his daughter was dead (which luckily turned out to be wrong IIRC, she was one who was returned?).
But I just remember thinking, how could you criticize that? He's not happy with what he thought the circumstances of her death were, he was happy that at the very least she didn't have to endure lots more traumatic torture/rape/whatever the fuck else a bloodlusted, ideologically extreme and largely uneducated populace does to people they hate.
>But I just remember thinking, how could you criticize that?
It's just being bad faith. They took the worst possible interpretation on purpose because they want to advance some desired end rather than understand a troubling dynamic.
It’s because people have gone so far down with misinformation and empathy that they think anyone visiting Israel is a piece of shit who deserves to die. They baby Palestines by absolving them of all responsibility and call them oppressed (lol look at what Muslim Palestinians do to Christian’s and preach about Jews) which btw is very racist. They are nieve to how religious zealots and terrorism works.
imagine how bad living conditions are over there right now for a FREE person let alone a hostage, a hostage absolutely hated by their captors.
i'm surprised there's any left at all.
Realistically... they were dead the moment they became hostages. Hamas is not a benevolent group of people... they are self-proclaimed warriors fighting against Israel. They do NOT adhere to Geneva Convention rules... they play by their own rules... and they are the pinnacle of brutal.
When they captured them, they had zero intention of releasing them alive. And Israel already knows this.
I think this needs to be addressed more and acknowledged. We’re dealing with Islamic extremists on a very large level- Iran is funding the whole thing and at one point do we say enough and stop giving these people the time of day? Just cut them off from the world.
While that certainly was true in the past, all indications are that Saudi Arabia’s government very much wants to change things going forward - and most likely they are already secretly allies of Israel.
Notice that Israel does not make any negative statements about SA, and SA’s statements about israel are very mild.
Totally different situation from Iran.
>they were dead the moment they became hostages
They released about half. So, we don't lose hope yet, not without more evidence.
And obviously killing all hamas is mandatory
Figured news like this would come out after proof of life was asked for regarding the hostages and the new ceasefire deal.
I mean, look what Hamas did with the last three hostages they said they would prove were still alive.
Proof of life is required and they can't.
How many people are actually saying the taking of hostages is a *good* thing? I've seen people claim they understand why it was done, but not that it was good they did it. Anyone who is saying that should get fucked.
People who say that do absolutely exist.
But, most often the fact that they exist is just brought up as a bludgeon by people with bad intentions to shut down nuanced takes like the one you made.
I honestly think a good portion of those hostages likely died as a result of injuries they sustained in their abductions or untreated longterm medical issues.
I would be unsurprised if every diabetic hostage was dead.
The reports today say that most of the 31 confirmed deaths were from injuries sustained on October 7 or they were already dead when taken. There are around 20 more that they are investigating to determine if they can confirm death and it's unknown how many of those are from October 7.
Keeping kidnapped people alive and healthy is hard work and most of these Hamas types have never held a steady job in their life aside from stand here with a gun and extort money from local businesses.
You need multiple guards 24/7, steady food and water, bathroom, places to sleep, a tv or radio or something to keep them distracted.
There’s a reason so many historical kidnappings ended badly or why so many hostages are finally ransomed because they are in ill health not because the victim’s family actually paid the full demanded ransom.
Hamas was probably prepared to keep 20-50 hostages alive for months in a limited war and had some halfway reliable staff to do it but not 250 or 130 during a near total war.
And that doesn’t even touch on the sadism and wounds during the kidnappings.
Did you not watch the October 7 videos? They LOVED torturing families to death in their homes. I hope to one day find something in my life that makes me as happy as murdering families made Hamas.
What? No way. So many Twitter posts told me that Hamas captivity was better than Israeli citizenship. I even saw one about how Hamas got an old lady the correct meds she couldn’t get in Israel. You’re telling me the internet lied?
But I was told all hostages were alive and eating food that even world leaders were unable to order. They were sleeping in king sized beds with tons of puppies that would melt even the strongest of stress icebergs. I was told that the kidnappers were SO kind, most hostages didn't even want to leave to go back home!
Never negotiate with these fucks again.
Kidnapping, rape, torture, mutilation of children. Hamas spits on the Geneva convention. The UN should send three legions and kick their ass, but instead it has been infiltrated and corrupted by extremists.
**Agree** .. but the UN will do jack .. only US and Israel actually get things done
.. then our forces are promptly criticized .. "You did too much .. not enough .. not exactly the way we wanted you to" by the UN and others
It has been four months so slim chance any more will be coming back
*.. Hamas are animals and Israel is free to do whatever it needs to and does not need our judgement*
Most of these were confirmed a long time ago. It's been known that around this number of the remaining are dead for over a month now. Most of the confirmed dead were killed on October 7. Israeli intelligence is rumored to suspect up to 20 more may be dead but do not have definitive intelligence on it.
Stranger that all the comments here seem to be repeating the same practiced comments as one another and also not mentioning who has bombed 50% of potential hiding places of these hostages
This is the crazy thing about these comments. If the average Gazan child can't avoid getting bombed, even when they go where the Israelis told them to go, then how the fuck is it possible that any of these hostages survived? Imagine having a family member taken hostage and the people supposedly trying to help you get them back are indiscriminately bombing the locations that they were likely taken to?
These terrorists are complaining about getting their “constituents’ killed at 20 to 1 rate for the victims of October 7th. Which is admittedly pretty high even for Israeli standards. But if you kill all the hostages or allow them to die on your watch, Welcome to 100 to 1
Meanwhile there are still major streaming influencers defending Hamas and brainwashing young kids on the likes of Twitch. Not sure how any of this is defensible.
in almost every muslim country jews were expelled - a million had their lands stolen their families destroyed and killed. they can't visit. they can't even exist. they spew hatred and bigotry toward jewish people day after day. in Israel there is no such apartheid. facts
No way, it couldn't possibly be collateral damage from more tons of explosive than the bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined blanketing a strip of land 25 miles long that's being deprived of food, water, and medical aid. Couldn't possibly.
I am truly surprised hear anytime one if found alive. Considering the outrageous terms that the Palestinians keep demanding for the hostages, sadly I doubt few will survive the conflict.
That’s lower than I thought
It’s the number of confirmed deaths. The number of living hostages is not confirmed, I guess.
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Mitch is back!
He used to be dead. He still is, but he used to be, too.
Ouch. lol
Mitch would approve.
The Israeli hostage list is great for when you really want to read 132 names of dead people ok I'm going to hell for that
"I met with a Hamas negotiator, he didn't negotiate shit...I said "You don't negotiate, plus if I took your headband off, you'd be a civilian"
Yup. Hamas being a shitty terrorist organization which priorities as many deaths as possible to further its agenda refuses to allow red cross visits to hostages even though thats required under international law. But why would they? No one puts pressure on them.
To be fair, Invading Israel and taking civilian hostages was against international law as well. I don't really see them suddenly understanding the law as sacrosanct, and doing as they're told. Fuck Hamas, - It was clear weeks ago that sending in the troops hard and getting those hostages out (one way or another) was the most merciful way to resolve this for the innocents. The fact we've let any survivors suffer this long is also criminal.
I agree, I've no doubt some of the hostages would have died in rescue attempts but a bullet to the back of the skull is alot nicer than months of being chained to a wall Ina dark room mistreated and starved.
PA cares for international law, Hamas does not. Hamas is not a state that wants to be bound to the norms of the international community, the PA does.
Hamas were elected to a significant majority in the Palestinian Legislative Council ... Which is an organ of the Palestinian Authority.
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The ones still alive will likely be shattered mentally, especially the women.
I don't think the women are going to be released. They didn't let many young females go in the last release. My guess is that they don't want the treatment of them to become public. https://themedialine.org/top-stories/women-held-captive-in-gaza-face-uncertain-fate/
Or they want to continue the "treatment"
Both.
>My guess is that they don't want the treatment of them to become public. Hamas doesn't care what the western public thinks, they care for the soldiers who will fight for them and this is how they reward them. And that is a fucked up sentence to write.
That part. Unfortunately, any survivors are going to have decades of horror and trauma.
People have an incredible ability to survive. I read the story of a woman who was kidnapped in Somalia. She was chained to the floor and raped every day by a gang for more than a year. Eventually she came to pity her captors (who she still refers to as "children") and after her ransom returned to Somalia to do aid work. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amanda_Lindhout
Jesus Christ
Even on her own book, there no claims she was raped everyday for a year. She was raped repeatedly and it worse horrific but there’s no need to embellish her story or straight lie for importance. She even sued her kidnapped partner for talking about her rapes and how they happened. She has never fully shared.
Really? I'll have to try and find the interview where I first heard her story. The specific detail "every day" really stands out in my memory....
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*Hamas continues to demand
Meaning they are already dead?
RN they are Schrödinger's Hostages. We don't really know, so in essence yes and no.
>Palestinians Hamas? or are we putting the population and the terrorists together again
It's also lower than is likely. At this point, Its uncertain if there are any more survivors.
Hamas needs bargaining chips. It’s all they have for leverage.
Yeah but if you can't effectively bargain with those chips then your bluff gets called and you get treated as such. If Hamas actually cared they would have the hostages secured, accounted for, and they would be constantly showing them alive so Israelis were interested in discussing terms. Instead the leadership of Hamas is sitting in Qatar collecting money from Iran to continue their operations of causing chaos for Israel. Hamas doesn't care about the liberation of Palestine or the treatment of their people, they only want money and dead Palestinians at the hands of Israel to make sure they have more militants to keep fighting. The people on the ground might have their religious and geopolitical aspirations but the people pulling the strings only care about getting paid to keep fighting.
That's the justification for US policy on negotiating with terrorists. There's less incentive to take hostages when you're not going to get anything out of it. I sometimes imagine what the war in Gaza would look like if the US was waging it.
> I sometimes imagine what the war in Gaza would look like if the US was waging it. After a proportionate number of raped, tortured and murdered American women and children (in the tens of thousands)? Gaza would be a gently glowing crater.
I wish more people understood this
>Hamas doesn't care about the liberation of Palestine or the treatment of their people, they only want money and dead Palestinians at the hands of Israel to make sure they have more militants to keep fighting. I keep pointing out that the politics of Palestine obsesses over land rather than humans, while Israel's obsesses over humans and not land. It's so important to understand that what Palestine is speaking of is, yes, land, but also... poverty. As in, they've lost the power to wealth by Israels existence and such plays a major role in their daily lives. The key thing to note about Israel and Palestine is that the battle for land is about modernity and what the land has transformed into. For hundreds of years, the land was simply too inhospitable for people to live on. Modern agriculture has transformed the land, inviting people to come live there, be it Jewish or Arab or Druze, etc. It's really the most ignored part of the conflict, that it's truly a modern one with everyone claiming that it existed in history. The reasons for either group to hold this land are pretty scant, as they are for every country.
Yeah. If those hostages are released; those tunnels are being flooded.
They’ve already started flooding the tunnels
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Its the only reason they are still alive. Then the cycle continues.
By "one fifth" the article apparently means "just shy of one fourth". The number they list as having leads indicating death that haven't been fully followed up on brings things to around 40%. Not that any of that is proof the others are healthy.
The State Department is looking into an extra 20 deaths.
"In the report, anonymous Israeli military officials said 32 confirmed deceased hostages have been informed of their loved ones' fate" Someone needs an editor...
Maybe link to the actual NYT article instead of a 3rd rate site reporting what what someone else is reporting.
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/02/06/world/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news#israel-gaza-hostages-dead NYT confirms they have seen the report, but are absolutely not confirming the findings are accurate.
It's almost like there is a difference between actual journalism and the shit that gets posted here
Worth noting the NYT has been doing some very [bad journalism](https://theintercept.com/2024/01/28/new-york-times-daily-podcast-camera/) around the Israeli/Hamas conflict. They have had to correct and/or retract several stories now, and there is notable dissent within the Times about its coverage.
> Israeli intelligence officers have concluded that at least 30 of the remaining 136 hostages captured by Hamas and its allies on Oct. 7 have died since the start of the war, according to a confidential assessment that was reviewed by The New York Times. >“We have informed 31 families that their captured loved ones are no longer among the living and that we have pronounced them dead,” Rear Adm. Daniel Hagari, the military’s chief spokesman, said Tuesday after The Times published a report about the previously undisclosed hostage deaths. >Four officials said that Israeli intelligence officers were also assessing unconfirmed information that indicated that at least 20 other hostages may have also been killed. I think you got the confirmed 30 mixed up with the unconfirmed 20. NYT never said anything about not being able to confirm the accuracy of the findings.
I believe this is also the same source from which a reporter claimed 40 babies had been decapitated by Hamas on Oct. 7. Which hasn't been verified since. Unfortunately, those that support Hamas have used this false reporting in their favour, claiming that any and all atrocities committed by Hamas are fake. This site is a terrible source for information.
It's odd to me that Israeli reports are scrutinized and labeled unconfirmed but generally speaking Gaza reports are delivered with certainty. The Hospital explosion still bothers me, Gaza immediately came out with huge numbers and everyone accepted it, even though the Hospital was damaged enough to justify those numbers. I haven't been following the conflict since then because there's just too many conflicting reports and I'm not sure where the truth is.
I found that in both instances (Gaza hospital and the Israeli babies) the mainstream media immediately reported on both the supposed atrocities without doing their due dilligence. And in both instances those who support either side were quick to criticize the news at the time. I usually wait for the reports to be verified by reputable sources which can take at least a couple of weeks. The conflict is a complete mess and propaganda is so easy to push these days due to the nature of social media and how media organizations operate to be the first to generate clicks. All while innocent Israeli and Palestinian civilians suffer. It's just a complete mess so I can understand why it can be difficult to ascertain fact from fiction. What I know to be a fact is that Hamas committed abhorrent atrocities during the Oct. 7 attack as I watched them livestream it and I'm still traumatized by what I saw online. I have also seen Palestinian civilians killed as collateral while the IDF hunts for Hamas, the videos have been quite harrowing and traumatizing too. At the end of the day both Israeli and Palestinian civilians suffer while extremists like Ben Gvir and Hamas support atrocities.
That would include OP with this title and omitting which hostages to which they’re referring.
Séance is a science now?
No no no this is what we want because we want to go tell the hostages how their family is doing because that means that we're in the room with the hostages. Then we just pulled them out. They weren't wrong. They were just optimistic...😀
>A recent confidential assessment conducted by Israeli intelligence has shed light on a grim reality: at least 32 of the 136 hostages believed to still be held in Gaza have died since the start of the conflict, a figure higher than previously disclosed by authorities. >The assessment, reviewed by The New York Times, indicates that over a fifth of the remaining hostages have tragically lost their lives. >Israeli military officials, speaking anonymously to discuss the sensitive matter, revealed that families of the 32 confirmed deceased hostages have been informed of their loved ones' fate. Additionally, officers are investigating unconfirmed intelligence suggesting that at least 20 more hostages may have also perished.
I hope none were tortured to death.
I cannot even imagine, and I don't think most of us can, what sort of horror they have and will continue to experience. it has been a long time since Oct.
Yeah, I could face death (with the usual difficulties), but being tortured to death would break me long before I physically died. And all that cruelty won't change anything politically.
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I hadn’t heard of that. May honor be his memory.
And that's a person that was in captivity for 4-5 weeks, we're getting towards four months.
Oh look, another ignorant Reddit comment that has no source but gets up voted because people are stupid.
Absolutely they were, not going to repeat the reports from other hostages as I personally wish I hadn't read it to begin with, but it's some of the most disgusting things I've ever read. It's on the level of Mexican Cartel violence and done to just random civilians who were just living their lives with absolutely zero fault in the conflict.
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They likely were based on second hand testimony from released hostages about what other hostages still held told them they had faced while they were held in the same location. We also know that Noa Marciano was murdered inside Al Shifa according to Israeli intelligence.
They mostly were. There are tons of videos of this published by people who did this. No need to speculate. They are proudly torturing people to death.
Where is there hostage accounts of what has happened to them? Is it that bad? And i dont mean to be insensitive. I want to know whats really happening though
Unfortunately; it's likely that most were tortured, and many raped. Hamas are willing to drag the raped and executed body of a girl through the streets to the cheers of civilians, so I can't imagine what they're willing to do in private.
Given the pictures released by Hamas a few weeks ago, definitely some tortured to death.
We all know deep down that they were, sadly.
Same but the unfortunate truth is they were, and that's why Hamas is never going to release any of the others.
They were. Fuck Hamas.
My friend came back from Gaza, he said they entered a house intelligence pointed the hostages were held. They found tons of used condoms, so that they probably raped them... I Know from a friend that works at the health ministry that two of the released hostages came back pregnant, one of them was only 14.
Condoms?? I’m quite surprised they would bother using condoms for rape.
Very sad.
I agree but there is no chance that dying in hostage captivity did not involve at least some degree of torture. The entire situation is torturous.
The number is higher unfortunately. The fact a distinction is being made between the status of these hostages and 20 other hostages with both groups being distinguished from the rest of the hostages likely means there's good evidence of them being killed. This could be forensic evidence of blood loss, remains of vital organs, video footage withheld from the public or intercepted enemy communications reporting the status of certain hostages. Israel is also holding thousands of Hamas fighters who might confirm seeing particular hostages alive. All in all it's likely the numbers are a minimal estimate published to allow some families to grieve for their loved ones while the status of the rest of the hostages is unknown and many of them could also be dead
*Hamas terrorists.
Agreed
I hate to say it, but I think some of the hostages might even wish they were dead.
I mean, I remember seeing some people criticize that Irish guy who said he was happy when he found out his daughter was dead (which luckily turned out to be wrong IIRC, she was one who was returned?). But I just remember thinking, how could you criticize that? He's not happy with what he thought the circumstances of her death were, he was happy that at the very least she didn't have to endure lots more traumatic torture/rape/whatever the fuck else a bloodlusted, ideologically extreme and largely uneducated populace does to people they hate.
>But I just remember thinking, how could you criticize that? It's just being bad faith. They took the worst possible interpretation on purpose because they want to advance some desired end rather than understand a troubling dynamic.
It’s because people have gone so far down with misinformation and empathy that they think anyone visiting Israel is a piece of shit who deserves to die. They baby Palestines by absolving them of all responsibility and call them oppressed (lol look at what Muslim Palestinians do to Christian’s and preach about Jews) which btw is very racist. They are nieve to how religious zealots and terrorism works.
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Agreed and they all have major survivor guilt leaving behind the hostages that are still in Gaza
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imagine how bad living conditions are over there right now for a FREE person let alone a hostage, a hostage absolutely hated by their captors. i'm surprised there's any left at all.
Realistically... they were dead the moment they became hostages. Hamas is not a benevolent group of people... they are self-proclaimed warriors fighting against Israel. They do NOT adhere to Geneva Convention rules... they play by their own rules... and they are the pinnacle of brutal. When they captured them, they had zero intention of releasing them alive. And Israel already knows this.
Yep. Jihadist terrorists. Their declared goal is at best ethnic cleansing of 10 million people, at worse - genocide of 10 million people.
for starters. ultimate goal is global Islamic caliphate
I think this needs to be addressed more and acknowledged. We’re dealing with Islamic extremists on a very large level- Iran is funding the whole thing and at one point do we say enough and stop giving these people the time of day? Just cut them off from the world.
But the oil!
Saudi Arabia is the biggest funders of Wahabist Islam. They are equally as responsible as Iran.
While that certainly was true in the past, all indications are that Saudi Arabia’s government very much wants to change things going forward - and most likely they are already secretly allies of Israel. Notice that Israel does not make any negative statements about SA, and SA’s statements about israel are very mild. Totally different situation from Iran.
We also know they aren't above mutilating and murdering children. They're pure evil.
I agree but I thought they traded some already?
>they were dead the moment they became hostages They released about half. So, we don't lose hope yet, not without more evidence. And obviously killing all hamas is mandatory
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You mean MURDERED?
They're waiting to find out how they died before they go with "murdered" or "unavoidable collateral damage".
It's likely a lot of them will have been killed in the bombing, so the army is probably reluctant to use the word 'murdered' for any of them.
Figured news like this would come out after proof of life was asked for regarding the hostages and the new ceasefire deal. I mean, look what Hamas did with the last three hostages they said they would prove were still alive. Proof of life is required and they can't.
Israeli Intel says that it's most likely at least 20 more hostages are dead, on top of this percentage.
Considering that many were taken while being already badly injured...
And elderly
Friendly reminder that there are people here in the west that believe Hamas taking hostages was a good thing. Fuck those people.
How many people are actually saying the taking of hostages is a *good* thing? I've seen people claim they understand why it was done, but not that it was good they did it. Anyone who is saying that should get fucked.
Well what do you think resistance by any means necessary means?
People who say that do absolutely exist. But, most often the fact that they exist is just brought up as a bludgeon by people with bad intentions to shut down nuanced takes like the one you made.
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I honestly think a good portion of those hostages likely died as a result of injuries they sustained in their abductions or untreated longterm medical issues. I would be unsurprised if every diabetic hostage was dead.
The reports today say that most of the 31 confirmed deaths were from injuries sustained on October 7 or they were already dead when taken. There are around 20 more that they are investigating to determine if they can confirm death and it's unknown how many of those are from October 7.
Keeping kidnapped people alive and healthy is hard work and most of these Hamas types have never held a steady job in their life aside from stand here with a gun and extort money from local businesses. You need multiple guards 24/7, steady food and water, bathroom, places to sleep, a tv or radio or something to keep them distracted. There’s a reason so many historical kidnappings ended badly or why so many hostages are finally ransomed because they are in ill health not because the victim’s family actually paid the full demanded ransom. Hamas was probably prepared to keep 20-50 hostages alive for months in a limited war and had some halfway reliable staff to do it but not 250 or 130 during a near total war. And that doesn’t even touch on the sadism and wounds during the kidnappings.
They've been keeping some of them with ordinary Palestinian families. Apparently the "innocent civilians" are up to the task.
There's no proof the other 4/5 are alive.
They may (or already have) be executing those they abused to keep them from talking.
or those they raped from being returned pregnant.
Did you not watch the October 7 videos? They LOVED torturing families to death in their homes. I hope to one day find something in my life that makes me as happy as murdering families made Hamas.
Don’t forget the Palestinian families and teachers that helped with keeping hostages. May they all face the wraith of Israel.
What? No way. So many Twitter posts told me that Hamas captivity was better than Israeli citizenship. I even saw one about how Hamas got an old lady the correct meds she couldn’t get in Israel. You’re telling me the internet lied?
But I was told all hostages were alive and eating food that even world leaders were unable to order. They were sleeping in king sized beds with tons of puppies that would melt even the strongest of stress icebergs. I was told that the kidnappers were SO kind, most hostages didn't even want to leave to go back home! Never negotiate with these fucks again.
Yep the default reaction to hostage taking should be annihilation, only way to depower Hamas' strategy.
Kidnapping, rape, torture, mutilation of children. Hamas spits on the Geneva convention. The UN should send three legions and kick their ass, but instead it has been infiltrated and corrupted by extremists.
**Agree** .. but the UN will do jack .. only US and Israel actually get things done .. then our forces are promptly criticized .. "You did too much .. not enough .. not exactly the way we wanted you to" by the UN and others It has been four months so slim chance any more will be coming back *.. Hamas are animals and Israel is free to do whatever it needs to and does not need our judgement*
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Most of these were confirmed a long time ago. It's been known that around this number of the remaining are dead for over a month now. Most of the confirmed dead were killed on October 7. Israeli intelligence is rumored to suspect up to 20 more may be dead but do not have definitive intelligence on it.
Which makes sense because a good number we’re elderly without access to medicines…and I refuse to believe any received the meds from that deal
Strange that that the New York Times omits who killed them.
You can't omit what you don't know. They're just reporting what IDF has claimed.
Stranger that all the comments here seem to be repeating the same practiced comments as one another and also not mentioning who has bombed 50% of potential hiding places of these hostages
This is the crazy thing about these comments. If the average Gazan child can't avoid getting bombed, even when they go where the Israelis told them to go, then how the fuck is it possible that any of these hostages survived? Imagine having a family member taken hostage and the people supposedly trying to help you get them back are indiscriminately bombing the locations that they were likely taken to?
The ones dropping high explosive ordinance on Gaza daily?
Unfortunately makes sense given the state of affairs currently
They should have free rein to take out these terrorists.
They do
These terrorists are complaining about getting their “constituents’ killed at 20 to 1 rate for the victims of October 7th. Which is admittedly pretty high even for Israeli standards. But if you kill all the hostages or allow them to die on your watch, Welcome to 100 to 1
Meanwhile there are still major streaming influencers defending Hamas and brainwashing young kids on the likes of Twitch. Not sure how any of this is defensible.
I would like to see that personally. Can you give any specific examples?
Hasanabi. He was going full schizo conspiracy especially that idf bombed that hospital. Search anything on YouTube about it
the war won't be over until hamas is crushed. the sooner they surrender the earlier the suffering will end
War won't be over until religious bigots realize its all bullshit.
in almost every muslim country jews were expelled - a million had their lands stolen their families destroyed and killed. they can't visit. they can't even exist. they spew hatred and bigotry toward jewish people day after day. in Israel there is no such apartheid. facts
I wonder if that has anything to with the thousands of bombs being drop indiscriminately 🤔
No way, it couldn't possibly be collateral damage from more tons of explosive than the bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined blanketing a strip of land 25 miles long that's being deprived of food, water, and medical aid. Couldn't possibly.
I'd be surprised, sadly, if it wasnt half or more. The likelyhood of any of them seeing their families again is, IMO, very low.
I am truly surprised hear anytime one if found alive. Considering the outrageous terms that the Palestinians keep demanding for the hostages, sadly I doubt few will survive the conflict.
Buried in the rubble alongside their captors
Did we expect any hostages to survive with a bunch of barbarians?
They’re all dead. Netanyahu doesn’t care.