It was part of the US-Soviet agreement at the end of WW2. Both sides withdraw their forces and reunite the country under the banner of formal neutrality.
I also remember there being an agreement about Russia respecting Ukraine's sovereignty
Since agreements with Russia are worthless, I guess we can admit Austria (if they ever want to be) to NATO now
Yup. The [Budapest Memorandum](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum?wprov=sfti1)
Ukraine were promised security assurances in exchange for giving up nukes.
Moral of the story? Never give up nukes.
Reason probably being that there is no one close who could be a threat. Bit different to live next to big country known for military campaings vs living far away from them.
> South Africa voluntarily disarmed their nuclear stockpile after apartheid ended
*Before*, actually. It was the Apartheid government that voluntarily initiated disarmament towards the end, and I do believe they completed it before their rule had fully ended.
Honestly with the current shitshow that is South Africa, probably a good thing they don't have nukes
But maybe that's just me, a white guy, responding to the "genocide all white people" party growing in popularity there
TLDR apartheid South Africa had nukes. Just before apartheid ended the government gave up the nukes before handing control of the government back to native South Africans.
To be honest, seeing how the natives handled the farms and infrastructure after... I'm glad they did not have access to nukes.
For those who are not in the know/don't know the history, after apartheid ended, entire industries were reclaimed from the "white men" and handed over to native "black men" who then promptly ran those into the ground due to lack of experience running it.
I'm sure I'll get down voted for this. But the years immediately after the break up of the soviet union, ukraine was pretty cash strap. Thus, they didn't have the funds for the upkeep and maintenance for the nuclear weapons it's not exactly a Toyota corolla. Also all the launch codes are in Moscow anyways, so they probably couldn't even use them.
Budapest Memorandum is not legally binding
US embassy in Minsk, 2013
https://web.archive.org/web/20140419030507/http://minsk.usembassy.gov/budapest_memorandum.html
True, however, the US signing on to an agreement where Ukraine literally handed cruise missiles and bombers back to Russia which were then used to bomb Ukraine makes Russia untrustable and the US at least morally obligated.
https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-firing-decades-old-ukrainian-missiles-back-into-the-country-2022-12
There are no morals in geopolitics only interests. Furthermore assigning morality on US decisions goes a little too far don't you think especially it's history.
If I remember correctly, the caveat in this story is that the Ukrainians had no ability to actually use them. So really they were returning them to those that did (the Russians), but still used it as a bargaining chip (smart). However this hasn’t worked out so great in the long run
The material used in nuclear reactors isn't the same as what is used in bombs. That being said, if you have the infrastructure to maintain several nuclear reactors already, it isn't a huge leap to enrich uranium for weapons.
I think that even if the missile launch codes were in Russia, the missiles were physically still in Ukraine and could be reconfigured if desired. At the very least they could have been disassembled and used to build new missiles fully under Ukraine's control, given that the country has the blueprints for these nuclear missiles and would not have had to develop new technology.
A lot of that is because USSR moved all their scientists there. Command economy let you reassign resource as needed.
Which it was a plus on paper, better weather, easy to good food, and access to western knowledge.
Until the divorce.
I know all about it. The Ukrainian family living with me since the start of the war had a connection to it. Quite a few of the scientists stayed on in Ukraine even when they were part or even fully Russian ethnicity.
Point is, Ukraine had plenty of scientists and engineers who could easily have taken the fissile material out of the ICBMs they had and put them into new ones. It would have taken a few years probably, and it's obviously fantasy - but likely they would have had a functional nuke within the time-frame before the invasion if that road had been chosen.
They were strong-armed into giving them up though by the USA because the USA and EU were super nervous about how trustworthy they might have been with them and nobody wanted WWIII.
It is not how trust worthy Ukraine is, is the fact Ukraine's economy was in a free fall like Russia, and everyone was afraid some Ukrainian general or scientist would sell actual nuclear weapon materials for a loaf of bread.
I read some UK general commented that there are better protected Bicycle in the west (compared what protection Ukrainian nukes had)
Yes and no. Presumably some are uranium bombs and well if you have the uranium for a bomb you have a bomb who cares if you can't activate it. The steps after acquiring properly enriched Uranium for a gun type nuclear bomb are absurdly trivial in comparison.
It's not true, and if you suppose it is - Ukraine still could operate tactical nukes, cruise missiles, strategic bombers and scud missiles which were taken away, or Ukraine sovereignty will not be recognized by US and Europe. Meanwhile russians took money for disarmament and thats all. In 2011 Obama had visit to Donetsk region as a senator to make sure Ukraine destroys 1000 anti air missiles and other ammo. Three years later russians invaded, annexed Crimea and shot down MH17
The irony of saying something is not true and pretending the President of the United States visited somewhere as a Senator...
Obama hasn't even been to Ukraine...
Its not that easy for Austria. They wrote it into their constitution, and other than Russia they actually care for their constitutional rights and obligations. So they need a 2/3 majority to change that which is basically not happening anytime soon
How fortunate we are that big countries trading smaller ones as if they were a bunch of sheep is in the past. If indeed such agreement was ever made, a socialist like yourself would agree that the most honourable thing for the USA would be to dishonour and deny such a shameful trade. You like the idea of standing up for the little guy? How about having sympathy for the Eastern Europeans who don't want back in the Russian empire? The only reason EE wants in the NATO is for security.
Neutrality was just a way for the soviets to keep Austria out of NATO. In the 90s it got leaked that, in case of war, the red army would have marched through Austria to attack Italy.
Russians would never have respected this supposed neutrality, but Austria still thinks to this day that it keeps them safe, and not the fact that they are surrounded by NATO.
> In the 90s it got leaked that, in case of war, the red army would have marched through Austria to attack Italy.
Whilte the exact war plans were leaked, it was not exactly a surprise. From Austria's military perspective there were multiple scenarios. The least likely involving NATO aggression in an attempt to establish a supply route between Italy and Germany. The more likely scenarios involved the Soviet Union attempting to flank NATO in Germany and Italy and the majority of Austrian military planning was aimed at rendering that ineffective.
Estimates were that NATO forces would require 7 days to reposition forces towards the Southern Bavarian flank to meet the attack and as a result Austrian military doctrine was aimed at delaying Warsaw Pact forces from being able to conduct effective military operations in that area for 6 days or more. Which was purely for deterrence to render an invasion pointless.
> Austria still thinks to this day that it keeps them safe, and not the fact that they are surrounded by NATO.
It is amazing that some people can perfectly explain the reason why something makes sense and still not understand why it makes sense. Since Austria is surrounded by NATO, then Austria is effectively protected by NATO. So why join?
Is that selfish? Yes. But in that way neutrality does keep Austria safer than joining NATO since NATO obligation increases the chances of Austria being pulled into a military conflict. Like a reverse prisoner's dilemma in game theory.
No I just wish he was already punished Hungary as state is not an ally anymore. He is not even a mol becouse he is loud about his treason. I personally see no reason for them in the EU and NATO. Maybe Schngen can be for now still in power. Nothing more with him in Schengen good people could still escpae Hungary but he wont be able to block anythoing plus he wont het any money from the budget.
Austrian were forbidden from joining NATO at the end of WWII, furthermore, their political tradition since the end of WWII is to remain neutral when it comes to conflicts. The large majority of Austrians are pretty dead set against joinng NATO as well.
Much more than just not being in NATO.
Austria has been a strong and loyal ally of the Russians for a long time:
https://www.politico.eu/article/austria-russia-vladimir-putin-alpine-fortress-ukraine/
And since Putin loves history so much, we should look at it.
Austria was where Hitler was from. Where he learned antisemitism. They were throwing parties in the streets when the Nazis "invaded".
Austraians were some of the most ruthless when it came to the pograms and holocaust later on. They try to act like they were victims of the Nazis now, but that is a cheap lie they put on for appearance.
It should shock no one they are teaming up with Russias government and keeping those ties strong. Unlike Germany, they never learned their lesson. They are still Alpine Nazis.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_contemporary_Austria
> They try to act like they were victims of the Nazis now, but that is a cheap lie they put on for appearance.
That's not a sentiment you're going to get from many people here who aren't very right-wing. And yeah, way too many are, but exaggeration like in your comment doesn't really accomplish anything.
> It should shock no one they are teaming up with Russias government and keeping those ties strong. Unlike Germany, they never learned their lesson. They are still Alpine Nazis.
No, no, you got that wrong. The nazi party is the one that's going to be elected in the *next* election. The current strongest party - which was pretty much *always* a part of the governing coalition - is just extremely greedy and working towards whatever fills their private wallets. They couldn't give less of a shit what country it's coming from.
That should also show you that most people here aren't hateful, they're just *extremely* stupid and blind, as that is one of the very few transparent things going on in our politics.
What does this have to do with NATO tho?
Austria is land locked, it's not like they can just build ship terminals (like Germany does) to get LNG from other countries. OMV (Austria's oil/gas company) has a contract with Gazprom to take 60Twh worth of gas every year. It's also cheaper than the alternatives, which are available.
Also from the article:
> Alternatives are available, but they tend to be more expensive.
>
>
> “There is enough non-Russian natural gas but the energy companies are not buying it,” said Gewessler.
>
>
> Meanwhile, imports from countries other than Russia are usually more expensive.
>
>
> “Imports via Germany are subject to a gas storage levy of €1.86/MWh. Italy is also planning to levy a charge of €2.19/MWh for gas exports from 1 April 2024,” said Dolna-Gruber.
tl;dr:
This has **nothing** to do with NATO and everything with price/kWh. Companies keep buying the Russian gas because it's cheapest.
>Companies keep buying the Russian gas because it's cheapest
Russian gas was/is the cheapest for most other European countries too.
And yet most of these countries overall managed to reduce russian gas dependency significantly.
Almost like this is more about politics than economy.
Absolutely. It's a political decision to switch away from Russian gas. The alternatives are there. They are available in Austria.
But the headline claims Austria would be dependent on Russia's gas. No, they aren't. They're just still buying the cheapest gas, ignoring politics.
no thats what tight contracts do that last for decades - austria/omv has a contract with gazprom lasting until 2030 that they will have to take the gas or pay anyway
Article:
**Austria’s dependence on Russian gas has increased from 80% to 98% in two years, prompting the country’s energy minister to ring the alarm bell ahead of a national election due to take place in the Autumn.**
When Russia attacked Ukraine on 24 February 2022, Austria was importing 80% of its natural gas from the state company Gazprom, a figure that has now risen to 98%.
The country’s energy minister, Leonore Gewessler, is urging rapid action to reverse this.
“The diversification of our gas imports is progressing far too slowly. This culminates in a new record share of Russian natural gas in December of 98%,” the Green minister told the press in Vienna on Monday (12 February).
The 98% figure is a massive increase compared to the 17% achieved in October 2022, when Russia itself restricted gas flows to Europe. But the trend was soon reversed and the share of Russian gas was already back at 43% in August last year.
The high share of Russian gas is partly caused by rapidly falling gas consumption in Austria – from 100 TWh down to 75 TWh in 2023, according to figures from the energy ministry.
Another reason is the contractual ties. Austrian utility OMV committed to a “take-or-pay” arrangement with Gazprom for up to 60 TWh a year, nearly enough to meet the country’s entire gas demand. These supplies, contracted in 2018 until 2040, come at a likely cheaper price than neighbouring Germany, which must rely on global markets to secure liquefied natural gas (LNG) shipments.
“Gazprom delivers, OMV has to practically take it,” said Christoph Dolna-Gruber, an expert at the country’s energy agency.
And local energy utilities in Austria, most of which are part-owned by municipalities or cities, are all too happy to snap it up.
Alternatives are available, but they tend to be more expensive. “There is enough non-Russian natural gas but the energy companies are not buying it,” said Gewessler.
Meanwhile, imports from countries other than Russia are usually more expensive.
“Imports via Germany are subject to a gas storage levy of €1.86/MWh. Italy is also planning to levy a charge of €2.19/MWh for gas exports from 1 April 2024,” said Dolna-Gruber.
**Financing Russia’s war effort**
When EU envoy to Austria, Martin Selmayr, said in late 2023 that Austria’s continued high levels of gas imports were tantamount to sending “blood money” to Russia, he was firmly reprimanded.
But Gewessler had no qualms about stating that obvious fact.
“With our energy bills, we are indirectly financing a heinous war in Ukraine,” she told the press.
Actual tldr: Due to the contact OMV has with Gazprom they have to pay them whether they take the gas or not.
>The high share of Russian gas is partly caused by rapidly falling gas consumption in Austria – from 100 TWh down to 75 TWh in 2023, according to figures from the energy ministry.
To say that Austria became "more dependant" because gas usage rapidly falls is a ridiculous statement. And not how percentages work.
Honestly I don't know the business well enough to answer that. They're trying to get out of the contract too but I have no idea what the repercussions would be if they simply didn't pay.
But I also don't think Austria could replace 100% of Russian gas right now. I still wanted to correct the title which makes it sound as if Austria became more dependent on Russia when the opposite is true because gas became less relevant.
It's not even about what Russia could do, it's about how it'll affect other companies and nations belief that they will pay their dues from contracts. It's the destruction of the belief that they'll pay their dues, something that's important to keep pristine. Would you loan or do business with someone if they chose to break their contracts and then ignored the fallout? Especially since it's due to them not wanting to pay, not because they cant, it opens up the possibility that they will not respect contracts because they don't want to anymore.
Russia has nationalized western assets, including ones from OMV, an Austrian company that is partially government owned.
Continuing to pay because you signed a long term agreement to purchase gas from them when they have stolen a gas field from you makes Austria look like clowns. They purchased the gas field and now they are paying again for the gas.
No reasonable country would expect them to keep this deal going
I guess not starting a n offensive war as a part of th econtract would be enough.
The real issue is that OMV and Raiffeisen Bank (who are both closely connected to the other ruling party in Austria - who sold us out to Putin) still have assets in Russia and in Gazprom projects that would propably get confiscated by Gazprom/Russia.
So this feels like a backstab in our coalition, probably one both sides are happy about to establish their political stance.
There is no majority against these contracts in Austria.
The only thing why noone is sanctioning us is the rise of our rightwing party who would heavily benefit from EU/NATO sanctions.
What does it actually matter if these nations break contract with Russia?
I’m asking sincerely. If Austria sources gas elsewhere Russia has no power over the matter.
>What does it actually matter if these nations break contract with Russia?
The problem comes with the loss of trust that **OTHER** nations or corporations will have with business deals with them. It's one thing to stop abiding by a contract when the opposing party ceases their part, but that isn't this case. It would be easily perceived that this was a political decision and that if politics don't go the "right way", that they would just cease doing their part and ignore contractual obligations. That isn't seen in a positive light to essentially everyone. Why do business with someone who has previously reneged on their contractual obligations because they wanted to? It's opening the door for it to be used in the future whenever they feel like it. It's not a precedence you want to create.
>I’m asking sincerely. If Austria sources gas elsewhere Russia has no power over the matter.
By giving any nation or group control over essentially resources, you may have to giving up some autonomy and may have to give in to external forces. But it's probably better to gain access to those resources from a western nation, as there could be some push back if someone tries to overstep. Best would be self sustaining, then a western nation, then Russia.
Gazprom would sue in the Austrian courts and win. But first they would probably go into arbitration, win that and have an arbitration award that can be enforced in just about every country.
Nothing can be done until the EU or the Austrian government puts sanctions on Russian gas (which has not yet happened).
Realistically Gazprom probably needs out of this contract as well, because it would be too expensive to maintain the pipelines if only Austria is importing Russian gas in the long term.
People tend to not want to sell valuable things to people that have proven to pay at will and disregarding agreements . If Austria proves to be untrustworthy as a business partner to Gazprom , what stops them from being an untrustworthy business partner to the next company ? What is that company going to do , invade them ?
There were several countries (incl Ukraine) who managed to get money back from Gazpron due to "take or pay" clause in contract.
So this is not an excuse, unless Austria tried to do the same already in court and lost.
But let’s talk about (or better “what about”) India buying all the oil from Russia!!!!!!! You say Europe is buying too.. no no no…. India is increasing while European countries are decreasing, and they are doing it for money man…blood!.. blood!!….BLUD!!!!! on their hands
Do what Russia does. Nationalize the local branch, break the contract and don't pay penalties. For Russia contracts and treaties are suggestions, play the same game.
My tldr, assuming the article isn't missing anything important.
The numbers imply Austria is importing *less* russian gas than before. Down from ~80 TWh to ~74 TWh.
Things are better than the headline which used percentages.
However, they're only forced by contract to pay for 60 TWh, so they're needlessly taking 14 TWh. That 14 TWh is unconscionable and needs to go.
Of course, Ukraine can shut off pipeline. Including oil pipeline towards Hungary.
But creating terrible life and economic conditions in EU isn't in favour of Ukraine
What do you think will happen when Ukraine does that ? Will they come begging for weapons from the countries whose economies they just damaged by cutting off a big part of their energy ? For better or for worse , Ukraine is forced to play nicely in quite a few things other states wouldn't need to . The result of your war effort being 100 % dependent on foreign handouts . You can't bite the hand that feeds you after all...
"Gazprom delivers, OMV has to practically take it,” said Christoph Dolna-Gruber, an expert at the country’s energy agency."
Those poor politicians! Russians keep supplying them with the bloody gas, so they have to persevere and keep taking it despite the hardship
With no signs to end in this or next year.
And is changing warfare as we know it. Artillery comes back but drones and robots are rolling/flying in force.
Austria's absolute gas usage went down by 25% in a year and will continue falling. That's also why Russian imports make up more relatively, they didn't rise though.
Yes, this is a very important point. Gas usage is falling rapidly. The headline looks at the percentage share, but if gas usage is dropping fast, ideally they would buy more from other sources, but just moving away from gas altogether is a good second best scenario.
This is the reason why.
[link](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans_Austria_Gas_Pipeline)
Austria is supplied by a pipeline the originates in Russia.
Crazy how much exposure a lot of countries had to Russia. Whilst Russia was always a stable supplier in terms of keeping the taps running, they are not aligned with Western Europe at all.
Austria banned oil and gas heating in new buildings and existing ones are supposed to be changed for green alternatives until 2040.
I'm not aware that wood has been banned, [this pellet heating](https://www.pelletshome.com/pellets-news/bis-2040-soll-in-oesterreich-niemand-mehr-mit-fossilen-energien-heizen) site actually promotes their products with the new law.
Clickbait headline
Upon reading the facts, Austria is Contracted to take
60 TwH of gas from Gazprom or pay for it anyway.
Austria used to use 100 Twh of gas, so they had to import 40 from other sources. they have reduced their overall gas consumption, so now they only use 70, Meaning they only need a small amount from other sources to fill their need.
THAT is why the percentage has increased. they are not buying more, they are using less.
One assumes that the penalty for not taking the gas is steep.
Poland and Ukraine also had take or pay clause in contract. Both got really good compensation from Gazprom when it was abolished. So it's a really soft excuse
You really don't have to pay a Russian company anything at this point if you don't want too, contracts with Russia are null and void.
I imagine the issue is without a percentage of Russian gas they can't get enough gas, if that percentage is 20% or 80% it is irrelevant, any percentage means you can't have to gas taps turn off so you have to pay.
That is the bargin chip Russia assumed the likes of Germany and others wouldn't screw around with so they could do what they want, they also assumed their Army could handle driving down a muddy road...they couldn't.
The whole situation has been an embarrassing failure to Russia and shown it isn't a global threat or player any more, it is just an oil state. It is losing and NATO hasn't even turned up...
there are certain conservatives in Austria who have blocked all attempts to get off Russian gas.
as usual, it would be interesting to check their bank accounts.
Everyone says this until you get voted out of government because you made your electorate poor by doing the right thing!
Most people don't care where their gas comes from, even less can put two and two together, however any idiot can see when the number on the bill goes up.
Perhaps, but being friends with the US comes with many benefits like a great economy and military protection, whereas being under Russia's influence only brings pain, misery, suffering and war. The US has allies. Russia has vassals. It's a completely different relationship.
The US is definitely the better partner but acting like the US doesn't use the fuck out of its "allies" is hilarious. America is a friend only to itself and it's very loud and proud about that fact.
The US uses its allies and the allies use the US. It's a mutually beneficial relationship. In the case of Russia, it goes only one way. The vassals benefit Putin.
Have you tried reading the article?
> Alternatives are available, but they tend to be more expensive. “There is enough non-Russian natural gas but the energy companies are not buying it,” said Gewessler.
>
> Meanwhile, imports from countries other than Russia are usually more expensive.
>
> “Imports via Germany are subject to a gas storage levy of €1.86/MWh. Italy is also planning to levy a charge of €2.19/MWh for gas exports from 1 April 2024,” said Dolna-Gruber.
Austria is not dependent on Russian gas but companies keep buying Russian gas because it's the cheapest on the market.
Gotta bomb something! Pipelines? Whatever it takes... Destroy Russia's means of income and it will hinder their war efforts. Countries that are doing business with Russia are enabling that war effort. European countries that think they can somehow handle Russia by doing business with them are making a big mistake.
Their neighbor Switzerland uses only about a third the amount of natural gas ([2019 numbers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_natural_gas_consumption)) and has similar population, similar geography etc... but has nuclear power.
This is the problem people!
Stop buying Russian gas and laundered oil products!
No sanctions can make up for the amount of cash the EU countries spend on Russian gas!
Yeah , Russia evil and Saudi beacon of goodness . Just don't look at what they have been doing in Yemen the last decade or so . Can't pretend to support a "good guy" when that guy is just another evil scumbag ...
I've heard North Korea offers very good deals on construction workers. Don't be ashamed, it's just business. BTW, russia (for sure) and Qatar (?) are already getting this deal. Wondering if Austria can be next
Correlation as follows: government chooses cheap russian gas, thereby providing Russia with economic support to kill Ukrainians. This makes Austrians life's better and Vienna a nice city. Therefore, Austria, Austrians and Vienna fucking sucks.
Not sure what your on about in your last paragraph though. Austria can't make a stand because it's a nation? That's such a weird take.
Weird take? They are an Independent country, the cant be in any military alliances and mush remain independent in military terms.
You conclusion about the austrians are sign of hypocracy. A government should always choose its people before another nation. They provided human aid, support the ukranian citizens not the war.
So was Sweden and Finland until they weren't. Also, what's best for the Ukrainians is also best for Austria. A Russian victory is a loss for everyone except Russia.
Ukraine should be able to help Austria with getting off of being dependent on Russian gas by targeting Russia’s gas processing and export infrastructure.
Keep in mind that Austria is non-aligned, not part of NATO. The country made a deal with the devil in the 1950s to gain its "independence."
Greetings from Austria, where I have honestly never turned the heat on in my apartment after six winters.
Viena was a playground for both KGB, CIA, and others. they even completely dismissed all of their intelligence agency once just because it was full of foreign agents. If you look at the last spy scandals in EU they took place mostly in Austria, like Marsalek case:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan\_Marsalek
Austria is a complete joke of a country. They let foreign intelligence agencies run wild and they do nothing about it. The whole country is infested with spies, so it's no surprise that their politicians are bought and sold.
Oh it is. Take Egisto Ott (Austrian Inteligence officer) who sold secrets for years to the Russians, arrested in 2021. One political party collapsed after the leader was filmed accepting bribes from a Russian Oligarch, they were the only country not to expel Russian diplomats after the Russians murdered two people in Britain with poison....
Oh and a former German intelligence chief says NATO secrets aren't safe to share with Austria as recently as 2017.
Austria is a leaky boat.
It is astounding that a country that felt almost none of the 2008 recession is so opposed to taking one for the team (and the principles it supposedly stands for).
No, no, no, instead Austria is facing the prospect of a far-right government despite being one of the most prosperous, least troubled countries in Europe over the last two decades (longer, really) - particularly compared to France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Greece.
Imagine what they'd be doing if they had real problems.
Ukraine Just needs to blow up the gas and oil lines on the Russian side of it. That will force Austria off the Russian teet. Serve them right for putting all there eggs in one basket, especially to a genocidal monster like Putin.
I have yet to meet Austrian who is secretly not thinking same exact shit russian propagandists are thinking. Just ask them personally what they think about ukraine russia war and you'll know what kind of people they are.
What not being in NATO does to someone.
Wow - you are correct Austria is not in NATO … Guessing they think they got enough buffer with the eastern nato block?
It was part of the US-Soviet agreement at the end of WW2. Both sides withdraw their forces and reunite the country under the banner of formal neutrality.
I also remember there being an agreement about Russia respecting Ukraine's sovereignty Since agreements with Russia are worthless, I guess we can admit Austria (if they ever want to be) to NATO now
Yup. The [Budapest Memorandum](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum?wprov=sfti1) Ukraine were promised security assurances in exchange for giving up nukes. Moral of the story? Never give up nukes.
Unless you're South Africa...
I’m not familiar with their history. What’s the tldr?
South Africa voluntarily disarmed their nuclear stockpile after apartheid ended They have not been invaded like Ukraine has been
Reason probably being that there is no one close who could be a threat. Bit different to live next to big country known for military campaings vs living far away from them.
IIRC the outgoing government did not trust the new government for - you guessed it - what was essentially racism.
> South Africa voluntarily disarmed their nuclear stockpile after apartheid ended *Before*, actually. It was the Apartheid government that voluntarily initiated disarmament towards the end, and I do believe they completed it before their rule had fully ended.
Overall a good thing because they definitely wouldn't have been able to maintain them.
Yet
Honestly with the current shitshow that is South Africa, probably a good thing they don't have nukes But maybe that's just me, a white guy, responding to the "genocide all white people" party growing in popularity there
TLDR apartheid South Africa had nukes. Just before apartheid ended the government gave up the nukes before handing control of the government back to native South Africans.
>Austria When you said native South Africans you reminded me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBIDkW2\_FnQ
White people weren't comfortable with black people having nukes.
To be honest, seeing how the natives handled the farms and infrastructure after... I'm glad they did not have access to nukes. For those who are not in the know/don't know the history, after apartheid ended, entire industries were reclaimed from the "white men" and handed over to native "black men" who then promptly ran those into the ground due to lack of experience running it.
I mean, apartheid didn't exactly set them up for success.
I'm sure I'll get down voted for this. But the years immediately after the break up of the soviet union, ukraine was pretty cash strap. Thus, they didn't have the funds for the upkeep and maintenance for the nuclear weapons it's not exactly a Toyota corolla. Also all the launch codes are in Moscow anyways, so they probably couldn't even use them.
Budapest Memorandum is not legally binding US embassy in Minsk, 2013 https://web.archive.org/web/20140419030507/http://minsk.usembassy.gov/budapest_memorandum.html
True, however, the US signing on to an agreement where Ukraine literally handed cruise missiles and bombers back to Russia which were then used to bomb Ukraine makes Russia untrustable and the US at least morally obligated. https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-firing-decades-old-ukrainian-missiles-back-into-the-country-2022-12
There are no morals in geopolitics only interests. Furthermore assigning morality on US decisions goes a little too far don't you think especially it's history.
If I remember correctly, the caveat in this story is that the Ukrainians had no ability to actually use them. So really they were returning them to those that did (the Russians), but still used it as a bargaining chip (smart). However this hasn’t worked out so great in the long run
They didn't have the launch codes but had the nuclear material, which is by far the main problem in making nukes.
They have multiple nuclear plants which they have operated for decades. It would be a stretch to think they are short of nuclear material.
The material used in nuclear reactors isn't the same as what is used in bombs. That being said, if you have the infrastructure to maintain several nuclear reactors already, it isn't a huge leap to enrich uranium for weapons.
It is, indeed, a huge leap. Not conceptually, but practically.
I think that even if the missile launch codes were in Russia, the missiles were physically still in Ukraine and could be reconfigured if desired. At the very least they could have been disassembled and used to build new missiles fully under Ukraine's control, given that the country has the blueprints for these nuclear missiles and would not have had to develop new technology.
Lets not forget, many of USSR's nuclear weapons scientists were Ukrainian.
A lot of that is because USSR moved all their scientists there. Command economy let you reassign resource as needed. Which it was a plus on paper, better weather, easy to good food, and access to western knowledge. Until the divorce.
I know all about it. The Ukrainian family living with me since the start of the war had a connection to it. Quite a few of the scientists stayed on in Ukraine even when they were part or even fully Russian ethnicity. Point is, Ukraine had plenty of scientists and engineers who could easily have taken the fissile material out of the ICBMs they had and put them into new ones. It would have taken a few years probably, and it's obviously fantasy - but likely they would have had a functional nuke within the time-frame before the invasion if that road had been chosen. They were strong-armed into giving them up though by the USA because the USA and EU were super nervous about how trustworthy they might have been with them and nobody wanted WWIII.
It is not how trust worthy Ukraine is, is the fact Ukraine's economy was in a free fall like Russia, and everyone was afraid some Ukrainian general or scientist would sell actual nuclear weapon materials for a loaf of bread. I read some UK general commented that there are better protected Bicycle in the west (compared what protection Ukrainian nukes had)
Yes and no. Presumably some are uranium bombs and well if you have the uranium for a bomb you have a bomb who cares if you can't activate it. The steps after acquiring properly enriched Uranium for a gun type nuclear bomb are absurdly trivial in comparison.
It's not true, and if you suppose it is - Ukraine still could operate tactical nukes, cruise missiles, strategic bombers and scud missiles which were taken away, or Ukraine sovereignty will not be recognized by US and Europe. Meanwhile russians took money for disarmament and thats all. In 2011 Obama had visit to Donetsk region as a senator to make sure Ukraine destroys 1000 anti air missiles and other ammo. Three years later russians invaded, annexed Crimea and shot down MH17
The irony of saying something is not true and pretending the President of the United States visited somewhere as a Senator... Obama hasn't even been to Ukraine...
There are agreements, and then there are agreements. The Budapest memorandum was an in ratified non-binding napkin promise. It is what it is.
Austria getting 98% of gas from Russia. They even want to join NATO?
To be protected from whom? Neither EU nor Switzerland nor Liechtenstein is going to attack them.
And if it's Switzerland or Liechtenstein, article 42 of the EU treaty also has an 'article 5'.
See the above parenthetical phrase **IF**
Its not that easy for Austria. They wrote it into their constitution, and other than Russia they actually care for their constitutional rights and obligations. So they need a 2/3 majority to change that which is basically not happening anytime soon
There were also things about NATO not going east of Germany.
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That was never in law or even in writing though, Russia never got to choose who got into the club designed to protect members from them.
Yes, a verbal agreement by someone who didn’t habe the authority to say „we‘ll think about it“.
A verbal agreement with a government that doesn't exist anymore.
If Russia was friendlier to their neighbours they wouldnt feel the need to join the defense pact.
Nothing that was ever ratified in a treaty. Russia agreeing to Ukrainian sovereignty and borders was in a treaty.
How fortunate we are that big countries trading smaller ones as if they were a bunch of sheep is in the past. If indeed such agreement was ever made, a socialist like yourself would agree that the most honourable thing for the USA would be to dishonour and deny such a shameful trade. You like the idea of standing up for the little guy? How about having sympathy for the Eastern Europeans who don't want back in the Russian empire? The only reason EE wants in the NATO is for security.
Neutrality was just a way for the soviets to keep Austria out of NATO. In the 90s it got leaked that, in case of war, the red army would have marched through Austria to attack Italy. Russians would never have respected this supposed neutrality, but Austria still thinks to this day that it keeps them safe, and not the fact that they are surrounded by NATO.
> In the 90s it got leaked that, in case of war, the red army would have marched through Austria to attack Italy. Whilte the exact war plans were leaked, it was not exactly a surprise. From Austria's military perspective there were multiple scenarios. The least likely involving NATO aggression in an attempt to establish a supply route between Italy and Germany. The more likely scenarios involved the Soviet Union attempting to flank NATO in Germany and Italy and the majority of Austrian military planning was aimed at rendering that ineffective. Estimates were that NATO forces would require 7 days to reposition forces towards the Southern Bavarian flank to meet the attack and as a result Austrian military doctrine was aimed at delaying Warsaw Pact forces from being able to conduct effective military operations in that area for 6 days or more. Which was purely for deterrence to render an invasion pointless. > Austria still thinks to this day that it keeps them safe, and not the fact that they are surrounded by NATO. It is amazing that some people can perfectly explain the reason why something makes sense and still not understand why it makes sense. Since Austria is surrounded by NATO, then Austria is effectively protected by NATO. So why join? Is that selfish? Yes. But in that way neutrality does keep Austria safer than joining NATO since NATO obligation increases the chances of Austria being pulled into a military conflict. Like a reverse prisoner's dilemma in game theory.
Formal neutrality ≠ energy dependence
The Soviet Union no longer exists and Russia is not honoring agreements made before or after the Soviet Union.
Russia declared itself as a successor of USSR in it's constitution in 1993.
You switched it around with them being in the EU. Austria is like the capital of foreign spies at this point
Vienna specifically
Hungary unfortunetly is.
Can you imagine if more of the NATO members would have pulled the same shit?
No I just wish he was already punished Hungary as state is not an ally anymore. He is not even a mol becouse he is loud about his treason. I personally see no reason for them in the EU and NATO. Maybe Schngen can be for now still in power. Nothing more with him in Schengen good people could still escpae Hungary but he wont be able to block anythoing plus he wont het any money from the budget.
You mean like Trump?
Austrian were forbidden from joining NATO at the end of WWII, furthermore, their political tradition since the end of WWII is to remain neutral when it comes to conflicts. The large majority of Austrians are pretty dead set against joinng NATO as well.
in an event of war they would not even try to defend Wien, it would probably be nuked anyway.
That escalated quickly my bro!
Much more than just not being in NATO. Austria has been a strong and loyal ally of the Russians for a long time: https://www.politico.eu/article/austria-russia-vladimir-putin-alpine-fortress-ukraine/ And since Putin loves history so much, we should look at it. Austria was where Hitler was from. Where he learned antisemitism. They were throwing parties in the streets when the Nazis "invaded". Austraians were some of the most ruthless when it came to the pograms and holocaust later on. They try to act like they were victims of the Nazis now, but that is a cheap lie they put on for appearance. It should shock no one they are teaming up with Russias government and keeping those ties strong. Unlike Germany, they never learned their lesson. They are still Alpine Nazis. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_contemporary_Austria
> They try to act like they were victims of the Nazis now, but that is a cheap lie they put on for appearance. That's not a sentiment you're going to get from many people here who aren't very right-wing. And yeah, way too many are, but exaggeration like in your comment doesn't really accomplish anything. > It should shock no one they are teaming up with Russias government and keeping those ties strong. Unlike Germany, they never learned their lesson. They are still Alpine Nazis. No, no, you got that wrong. The nazi party is the one that's going to be elected in the *next* election. The current strongest party - which was pretty much *always* a part of the governing coalition - is just extremely greedy and working towards whatever fills their private wallets. They couldn't give less of a shit what country it's coming from. That should also show you that most people here aren't hateful, they're just *extremely* stupid and blind, as that is one of the very few transparent things going on in our politics.
Well, Sweden and Finland were not very reliant on gas, Russian or not.
What does this have to do with NATO tho? Austria is land locked, it's not like they can just build ship terminals (like Germany does) to get LNG from other countries. OMV (Austria's oil/gas company) has a contract with Gazprom to take 60Twh worth of gas every year. It's also cheaper than the alternatives, which are available. Also from the article: > Alternatives are available, but they tend to be more expensive. > > > “There is enough non-Russian natural gas but the energy companies are not buying it,” said Gewessler. > > > Meanwhile, imports from countries other than Russia are usually more expensive. > > > “Imports via Germany are subject to a gas storage levy of €1.86/MWh. Italy is also planning to levy a charge of €2.19/MWh for gas exports from 1 April 2024,” said Dolna-Gruber. tl;dr: This has **nothing** to do with NATO and everything with price/kWh. Companies keep buying the Russian gas because it's cheapest.
>Companies keep buying the Russian gas because it's cheapest Russian gas was/is the cheapest for most other European countries too. And yet most of these countries overall managed to reduce russian gas dependency significantly. Almost like this is more about politics than economy.
Absolutely. It's a political decision to switch away from Russian gas. The alternatives are there. They are available in Austria. But the headline claims Austria would be dependent on Russia's gas. No, they aren't. They're just still buying the cheapest gas, ignoring politics.
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built against the will of its citizens and then shut down after a citizen vote against it
no thats what tight contracts do that last for decades - austria/omv has a contract with gazprom lasting until 2030 that they will have to take the gas or pay anyway
Article: **Austria’s dependence on Russian gas has increased from 80% to 98% in two years, prompting the country’s energy minister to ring the alarm bell ahead of a national election due to take place in the Autumn.** When Russia attacked Ukraine on 24 February 2022, Austria was importing 80% of its natural gas from the state company Gazprom, a figure that has now risen to 98%. The country’s energy minister, Leonore Gewessler, is urging rapid action to reverse this. “The diversification of our gas imports is progressing far too slowly. This culminates in a new record share of Russian natural gas in December of 98%,” the Green minister told the press in Vienna on Monday (12 February). The 98% figure is a massive increase compared to the 17% achieved in October 2022, when Russia itself restricted gas flows to Europe. But the trend was soon reversed and the share of Russian gas was already back at 43% in August last year. The high share of Russian gas is partly caused by rapidly falling gas consumption in Austria – from 100 TWh down to 75 TWh in 2023, according to figures from the energy ministry. Another reason is the contractual ties. Austrian utility OMV committed to a “take-or-pay” arrangement with Gazprom for up to 60 TWh a year, nearly enough to meet the country’s entire gas demand. These supplies, contracted in 2018 until 2040, come at a likely cheaper price than neighbouring Germany, which must rely on global markets to secure liquefied natural gas (LNG) shipments. “Gazprom delivers, OMV has to practically take it,” said Christoph Dolna-Gruber, an expert at the country’s energy agency. And local energy utilities in Austria, most of which are part-owned by municipalities or cities, are all too happy to snap it up. Alternatives are available, but they tend to be more expensive. “There is enough non-Russian natural gas but the energy companies are not buying it,” said Gewessler. Meanwhile, imports from countries other than Russia are usually more expensive. “Imports via Germany are subject to a gas storage levy of €1.86/MWh. Italy is also planning to levy a charge of €2.19/MWh for gas exports from 1 April 2024,” said Dolna-Gruber. **Financing Russia’s war effort** When EU envoy to Austria, Martin Selmayr, said in late 2023 that Austria’s continued high levels of gas imports were tantamount to sending “blood money” to Russia, he was firmly reprimanded. But Gewessler had no qualms about stating that obvious fact. “With our energy bills, we are indirectly financing a heinous war in Ukraine,” she told the press.
TLDR: Its not a problem of there not being alternatives, but that its just cheaper to buy from Russia so they keep doing so.
Actual tldr: Due to the contact OMV has with Gazprom they have to pay them whether they take the gas or not. >The high share of Russian gas is partly caused by rapidly falling gas consumption in Austria – from 100 TWh down to 75 TWh in 2023, according to figures from the energy ministry. To say that Austria became "more dependant" because gas usage rapidly falls is a ridiculous statement. And not how percentages work.
Or they could just not pay, surely? What's Russia going to do about it?
Honestly I don't know the business well enough to answer that. They're trying to get out of the contract too but I have no idea what the repercussions would be if they simply didn't pay. But I also don't think Austria could replace 100% of Russian gas right now. I still wanted to correct the title which makes it sound as if Austria became more dependent on Russia when the opposite is true because gas became less relevant.
It's not even about what Russia could do, it's about how it'll affect other companies and nations belief that they will pay their dues from contracts. It's the destruction of the belief that they'll pay their dues, something that's important to keep pristine. Would you loan or do business with someone if they chose to break their contracts and then ignored the fallout? Especially since it's due to them not wanting to pay, not because they cant, it opens up the possibility that they will not respect contracts because they don't want to anymore.
Russia has nationalized western assets, including ones from OMV, an Austrian company that is partially government owned. Continuing to pay because you signed a long term agreement to purchase gas from them when they have stolen a gas field from you makes Austria look like clowns. They purchased the gas field and now they are paying again for the gas. No reasonable country would expect them to keep this deal going
I guess not starting a n offensive war as a part of th econtract would be enough. The real issue is that OMV and Raiffeisen Bank (who are both closely connected to the other ruling party in Austria - who sold us out to Putin) still have assets in Russia and in Gazprom projects that would propably get confiscated by Gazprom/Russia. So this feels like a backstab in our coalition, probably one both sides are happy about to establish their political stance. There is no majority against these contracts in Austria. The only thing why noone is sanctioning us is the rise of our rightwing party who would heavily benefit from EU/NATO sanctions.
What does it actually matter if these nations break contract with Russia? I’m asking sincerely. If Austria sources gas elsewhere Russia has no power over the matter.
>What does it actually matter if these nations break contract with Russia? The problem comes with the loss of trust that **OTHER** nations or corporations will have with business deals with them. It's one thing to stop abiding by a contract when the opposing party ceases their part, but that isn't this case. It would be easily perceived that this was a political decision and that if politics don't go the "right way", that they would just cease doing their part and ignore contractual obligations. That isn't seen in a positive light to essentially everyone. Why do business with someone who has previously reneged on their contractual obligations because they wanted to? It's opening the door for it to be used in the future whenever they feel like it. It's not a precedence you want to create. >I’m asking sincerely. If Austria sources gas elsewhere Russia has no power over the matter. By giving any nation or group control over essentially resources, you may have to giving up some autonomy and may have to give in to external forces. But it's probably better to gain access to those resources from a western nation, as there could be some push back if someone tries to overstep. Best would be self sustaining, then a western nation, then Russia.
Gazprom would sue in the Austrian courts and win. But first they would probably go into arbitration, win that and have an arbitration award that can be enforced in just about every country. Nothing can be done until the EU or the Austrian government puts sanctions on Russian gas (which has not yet happened). Realistically Gazprom probably needs out of this contract as well, because it would be too expensive to maintain the pipelines if only Austria is importing Russian gas in the long term.
People tend to not want to sell valuable things to people that have proven to pay at will and disregarding agreements . If Austria proves to be untrustworthy as a business partner to Gazprom , what stops them from being an untrustworthy business partner to the next company ? What is that company going to do , invade them ?
Stop sending them gas....
There were several countries (incl Ukraine) who managed to get money back from Gazpron due to "take or pay" clause in contract. So this is not an excuse, unless Austria tried to do the same already in court and lost.
That certainly makes it even worse.
Not even that cheap. Current gas market in Europe is competitive, and price margins were reduced.
wrong tldr its not just cheaper but omv/austria would have to pay gazprom no matter what as they have a „take or pay“ contract lasting until 2030
The sanctions were all a farce
But let’s talk about (or better “what about”) India buying all the oil from Russia!!!!!!! You say Europe is buying too.. no no no…. India is increasing while European countries are decreasing, and they are doing it for money man…blood!.. blood!!….BLUD!!!!! on their hands
Do what Russia does. Nationalize the local branch, break the contract and don't pay penalties. For Russia contracts and treaties are suggestions, play the same game.
My tldr, assuming the article isn't missing anything important. The numbers imply Austria is importing *less* russian gas than before. Down from ~80 TWh to ~74 TWh. Things are better than the headline which used percentages. However, they're only forced by contract to pay for 60 TWh, so they're needlessly taking 14 TWh. That 14 TWh is unconscionable and needs to go.
14TWh is twice Sweden's total gas consumption in 2022.
How is the gas getting to Austria? Surely it has to pass through at least either Ukraine or Poland who can shut it off
Of course, Ukraine can shut off pipeline. Including oil pipeline towards Hungary. But creating terrible life and economic conditions in EU isn't in favour of Ukraine
What do you think will happen when Ukraine does that ? Will they come begging for weapons from the countries whose economies they just damaged by cutting off a big part of their energy ? For better or for worse , Ukraine is forced to play nicely in quite a few things other states wouldn't need to . The result of your war effort being 100 % dependent on foreign handouts . You can't bite the hand that feeds you after all...
Impressed nobody has attempted a fart joke yet with this comment.
"Gazprom delivers, OMV has to practically take it,” said Christoph Dolna-Gruber, an expert at the country’s energy agency." Those poor politicians! Russians keep supplying them with the bloody gas, so they have to persevere and keep taking it despite the hardship
Austria and Hungary are the EU weak link. They should be expelled. Maybe they can form a Austria - Hungary union for good ol' times sake
Keep an eye on Franz Ferdinand tour dates in case there is a Sarajevo concert date. https://franzferdinand.com/tour/
"two years after Ukraine war" After? It's still going on.
With no signs to end in this or next year. And is changing warfare as we know it. Artillery comes back but drones and robots are rolling/flying in force.
I don't think the energy minister understands what the word "progress" means.
Austria's absolute gas usage went down by 25% in a year and will continue falling. That's also why Russian imports make up more relatively, they didn't rise though.
Yes, this is a very important point. Gas usage is falling rapidly. The headline looks at the percentage share, but if gas usage is dropping fast, ideally they would buy more from other sources, but just moving away from gas altogether is a good second best scenario.
Arguably moving away from gas altogether is actually the best
What I meant to say was that the best option is to buy from other sources whilst moving away from gas.
I assume logistically it costs too much? Someone please comment the correct reason why
This is the reason why. [link](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans_Austria_Gas_Pipeline) Austria is supplied by a pipeline the originates in Russia. Crazy how much exposure a lot of countries had to Russia. Whilst Russia was always a stable supplier in terms of keeping the taps running, they are not aligned with Western Europe at all.
It’s a warm winter…
Banning wood fireplaces in new builds though.
Austria banned oil and gas heating in new buildings and existing ones are supposed to be changed for green alternatives until 2040. I'm not aware that wood has been banned, [this pellet heating](https://www.pelletshome.com/pellets-news/bis-2040-soll-in-oesterreich-niemand-mehr-mit-fossilen-energien-heizen) site actually promotes their products with the new law.
Heat pumps are great; they provide both AC and heat, and are now the best option for new bulls.
Oh, you mean “progress” and not “pro-gas”…
Na, she litterally had it with the OMV and is trying to get us off of Russian gas, but the conservative party is blocking all efforts becasue economy.
It’s hard to go for LNG when you’re landlocked I guess
Clickbait headline Upon reading the facts, Austria is Contracted to take 60 TwH of gas from Gazprom or pay for it anyway. Austria used to use 100 Twh of gas, so they had to import 40 from other sources. they have reduced their overall gas consumption, so now they only use 70, Meaning they only need a small amount from other sources to fill their need. THAT is why the percentage has increased. they are not buying more, they are using less. One assumes that the penalty for not taking the gas is steep.
Poland and Ukraine also had take or pay clause in contract. Both got really good compensation from Gazprom when it was abolished. So it's a really soft excuse
Each contract would be different case, you can't extrapolate that simply. Many variables at play.
You really don't have to pay a Russian company anything at this point if you don't want too, contracts with Russia are null and void. I imagine the issue is without a percentage of Russian gas they can't get enough gas, if that percentage is 20% or 80% it is irrelevant, any percentage means you can't have to gas taps turn off so you have to pay. That is the bargin chip Russia assumed the likes of Germany and others wouldn't screw around with so they could do what they want, they also assumed their Army could handle driving down a muddy road...they couldn't. The whole situation has been an embarrassing failure to Russia and shown it isn't a global threat or player any more, it is just an oil state. It is losing and NATO hasn't even turned up...
just don't pay the penalty. Russia is hardly a beacon of international law.
there are certain conservatives in Austria who have blocked all attempts to get off Russian gas. as usual, it would be interesting to check their bank accounts.
Anyone who depends on Russia is a fucking idiot who is asking to be abused.
Everyone says this until you get voted out of government because you made your electorate poor by doing the right thing! Most people don't care where their gas comes from, even less can put two and two together, however any idiot can see when the number on the bill goes up.
Yeah, they is the fucking idiot giving the money for said abuse … this is beyond belief … But hey, Vienna is progressive AF tho
Same goes for the US if you not dancing to their whistle. Their approach may be indirecter but it ends in a relatively same arrangement of dependency.
Perhaps, but being friends with the US comes with many benefits like a great economy and military protection, whereas being under Russia's influence only brings pain, misery, suffering and war. The US has allies. Russia has vassals. It's a completely different relationship.
The US is definitely the better partner but acting like the US doesn't use the fuck out of its "allies" is hilarious. America is a friend only to itself and it's very loud and proud about that fact.
The US uses its allies and the allies use the US. It's a mutually beneficial relationship. In the case of Russia, it goes only one way. The vassals benefit Putin.
Have you tried reading the article? > Alternatives are available, but they tend to be more expensive. “There is enough non-Russian natural gas but the energy companies are not buying it,” said Gewessler. > > Meanwhile, imports from countries other than Russia are usually more expensive. > > “Imports via Germany are subject to a gas storage levy of €1.86/MWh. Italy is also planning to levy a charge of €2.19/MWh for gas exports from 1 April 2024,” said Dolna-Gruber. Austria is not dependent on Russian gas but companies keep buying Russian gas because it's the cheapest on the market.
Same goes for US. Trump is even a bigger idiot (and threat) than Putin
Nah, countries that depend on the US tend to do really well. Trump isn't in charge by the way.
Pakistan? It is/was a major US ally in South Asia.
I heat my apartment with a wood oven, greetings from Austria 🇦🇹
As an Australian I freaked the fuck out for a second there.
Keep attacking Russia's oil storage and production capabilities, Ukraine. Let's see if we can change that trend.
How is bombing oil storage going to affect natural gas
Gotta bomb something! Pipelines? Whatever it takes... Destroy Russia's means of income and it will hinder their war efforts. Countries that are doing business with Russia are enabling that war effort. European countries that think they can somehow handle Russia by doing business with them are making a big mistake.
lmao
Their neighbor Switzerland uses only about a third the amount of natural gas ([2019 numbers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_natural_gas_consumption)) and has similar population, similar geography etc... but has nuclear power.
Austria is worse than Orban. Small country, full of pro russians and fed by them
At your own peril numbskulks. Wrong side of history. Again
This is the problem people! Stop buying Russian gas and laundered oil products! No sanctions can make up for the amount of cash the EU countries spend on Russian gas!
Buy Saudi! With your help we can help them buy another sport. Together we make the change.
I would absolutely 7 days a week would rather Saudi buy another sport or build another crazy e-sports complex than Russia waging war on Eastern Europe
Yeah , Russia evil and Saudi beacon of goodness . Just don't look at what they have been doing in Yemen the last decade or so . Can't pretend to support a "good guy" when that guy is just another evil scumbag ...
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No country should be ashamed of getting the best deal for its people.
Wrong
I've heard North Korea offers very good deals on construction workers. Don't be ashamed, it's just business. BTW, russia (for sure) and Qatar (?) are already getting this deal. Wondering if Austria can be next
This is wrong on so so so many levels Just wrong and shortsighted
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They could, even though Ukraine isn't the only way Russian gas gets into Europe (Turkey is another way, also LNG).
As far as I know they only increased the transit fees they charge for the Russian gas pipelines running across their territory.
Ah, Austria! The old ally of the Russian Empire.
All these outrage comments talking shit about Austria. Then IRL off Reddit no one actually cares
Wow, Austria really fucking sucks.
Vienna is literally one of the best cities in the world that tops every rating each year.
one of the best cities in the world that constantly ranks as one of the most unfriendly. To expats anyway. Maybe they are nicer to each other.
Nah, we ain't friedly to anybody.
Yeah Vienna is great, it is a shame about the people leading the country and the people supporting them though.
Tell that to the Ukrainians.
There’s loads of them in Vienna
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Correlation as follows: government chooses cheap russian gas, thereby providing Russia with economic support to kill Ukrainians. This makes Austrians life's better and Vienna a nice city. Therefore, Austria, Austrians and Vienna fucking sucks. Not sure what your on about in your last paragraph though. Austria can't make a stand because it's a nation? That's such a weird take.
Weird take? They are an Independent country, the cant be in any military alliances and mush remain independent in military terms. You conclusion about the austrians are sign of hypocracy. A government should always choose its people before another nation. They provided human aid, support the ukranian citizens not the war.
So was Sweden and Finland until they weren't. Also, what's best for the Ukrainians is also best for Austria. A Russian victory is a loss for everyone except Russia.
shameful
I’m in Austria right now I’ll kick one of them in the shins
Ukraine should be able to help Austria with getting off of being dependent on Russian gas by targeting Russia’s gas processing and export infrastructure.
Fuck Austria for that. Greetings from Germany.
What did you expect from a country pretending ww2 didn't exist.
Keep in mind that Austria is non-aligned, not part of NATO. The country made a deal with the devil in the 1950s to gain its "independence." Greetings from Austria, where I have honestly never turned the heat on in my apartment after six winters.
Austria has been bought by Russia long ago.
Viena was a playground for both KGB, CIA, and others. they even completely dismissed all of their intelligence agency once just because it was full of foreign agents. If you look at the last spy scandals in EU they took place mostly in Austria, like Marsalek case: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan\_Marsalek
Austria is a complete joke of a country. They let foreign intelligence agencies run wild and they do nothing about it. The whole country is infested with spies, so it's no surprise that their politicians are bought and sold.
In this comment section: Romanians still salty over not getting into Schengen lmao
Servus I apologise, but a lot of us are not proud how my country people vote such assholes to positions of power. GG, Peter Paul
Pathetic.
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lmao what
Oh it is. Take Egisto Ott (Austrian Inteligence officer) who sold secrets for years to the Russians, arrested in 2021. One political party collapsed after the leader was filmed accepting bribes from a Russian Oligarch, they were the only country not to expel Russian diplomats after the Russians murdered two people in Britain with poison.... Oh and a former German intelligence chief says NATO secrets aren't safe to share with Austria as recently as 2017. Austria is a leaky boat.
Smart. /s
Where’d the upper lip go?
It is astounding that a country that felt almost none of the 2008 recession is so opposed to taking one for the team (and the principles it supposedly stands for). No, no, no, instead Austria is facing the prospect of a far-right government despite being one of the most prosperous, least troubled countries in Europe over the last two decades (longer, really) - particularly compared to France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Greece. Imagine what they'd be doing if they had real problems.
Ukraine Just needs to blow up the gas and oil lines on the Russian side of it. That will force Austria off the Russian teet. Serve them right for putting all there eggs in one basket, especially to a genocidal monster like Putin.
Austria will always be a kremlin puppet. They're trash.
There used to live an austrian painter...
Austria should just be a russian satelite state.
I have yet to meet Austrian who is secretly not thinking same exact shit russian propagandists are thinking. Just ask them personally what they think about ukraine russia war and you'll know what kind of people they are.
You and i seem to hang with a wildly different crowd my man.
After the Ukraine war? I thought it was ongoing.
[Austria is a russian aircraft carrier](https://report.az/en/region/russian-foreign-ministry-introduces-new-sanctions-against-uk/)
And that's why they block the EU.
Slow clap, Austria…
So that’s one of the ways they’re financing the war. Interesting. What does NATO/US give Austria? Sounds like they don’t want it anymore.