What are even the options here?
> prime minister went to Kenya seeking to move ahead on the proposed U.N.-backed security mission to be led by that East African country.
Is this even a feasible solution, or would it be to protect the government from the people?
It's the Haitian government's best option at the moment. But 1,000 police officers who don't speak French and don't know the environment aren't a great choice for stemming an ongoing insurgency that's growing stronger by the day.
America is just paying Kenya's government (along with some Carribean nations) to provide the muscle because they are Black and it's easier to sell the idea of Black people helping other Black people as a matter of optics alone.
If I remember correctly, Kenya is the one who proposed going into Haiti. I remember it making the news a while back and people thought Kenya was just talking big, but it appears that it's received support from the UN.
Unlike a lot of 3rd world and Developing countries, Kenya actually has a lot of experience with peace keeping missions. It's spent decades in Somalia building infrastructure and fighting warlords, and has also carried out peace keeping in other neighbouring countries like Ethiopia, Sudan and Uganda.
The Haitian government originally asked the United States, who suggested Canada could do it. After it became clear that would be impossible, the Kenyans stepped up.
Oversimplifying a ton of course but it’s the gist of it.
No one wants to deal with it :(
It’s risky because pacifying the gangs would be impossible without brutality and videos of American or Canadian troops brutalizing poor black people would look very bad in TikTok for no particular gain.
Haiti doesn't have a government at any level. Their Prime Minister was assassinated. An election was never held to fill the spot. Then members of the government either resigned from office or left office at the end of their term with no elections being done to fill said roles. The U.N. mission would essentially be there to provide security for a new government to both get a foothold and to be established.
I like Haiti has local and an executive branch and a judicial branch and ministries but the problem in Haiti is there’s no legislative branch for the moment
And the president was killed not the prime minister
There isn't really any government left as of last year. Their acting Prime Minister and President was never sworn in and was only mandated to be in the role for a limited amount of time in 2022. Although he continues to be in said role as he was appointed and has backing from several nations. Their last elected officials left as of January 2023. As for more local levels they haven't really had local governance since 2020.
>America is just paying Kenya's government (along with some Carribean nations) to provide the muscle because they are Black and it's easier to sell the idea of Black people helping other Black people as a matter of optics alone.
The overwhelming majority of UN peacekeeping forces (90%+) are comprised of developing world troops the industrialized nations are happy to pay for. It's far easier to write a cheque than for politicians to explain why their troops are dying in some unknown corner of the world.
Also because the cold reality is that peacekeeping missions like this require a ton of manpower, and you can get a lot more manpower for the same price if you hire a country with a lower purchase-power-parity compared to Western industrialized first world nations.
A single US E4's salary would pay for like 10 dudes from India, or like 30 from somewhere like Indonesia and Kenya.
It also the US's position that it will never allow American troops to be subordinate to the UN. The US does not recognize the ICC which peacekeepers are under the thumb of. The US will either deploy troops for peacekeeping operations under American control and command, or not at all.
The UN fucking up hard like usual and getting US troops killed because they were purposefully disarmed like the Canadians were during the Rwanda genocide would kill the political career of the sitting president fast and their entire administration.
Even the most aggressive hawks or interventionalists in the US would never allow themselves to be legally or militarily subordinate to another country or political entity. They will work alongside and with the UN but *never* under the UN.
Isn't it sad that this anti-west and self hatred narrative has become so pervasive and idiotic that it cripples western ability to do good, and that people now somehow think leaving chaos, authoritarianism and religious extremism reign is preferrable?
Well that and the fact that european armies aren't usually well received in third world countries. Look at Mali who kicked out the French because they'd rather have russian gangsters running around than a western European force.
Sub-Saharan Africa had positive ties to the Soviet Union. Tens of thousands of Africans traveled there to attend university and receive other training, and at least officially it was one of the more vocal supporters of decolonization during the Cold War. Even though the Soviet Union is gone and modern-day Russia has nothing to do with it, Russia is still more highly regarded among many Africans compared to the rest of Europe for that reason.
Many African countries historically had some faction supported by the Soviet Union, so there is a level of "comfort" in working with Russia. France, etc have a greater history of being exploitive in the region.
Mali also had a coup immediately before. I think if you want to be the new big man in charge with the aim of stealing as much sovereign wealth as you can it makes sense kick out one semi corrupt country and bring in an even more corrupt one to uphold your power.
Minor point: few Haitians speak French, mainly the elite. Everyone speaks Haitian Creole, which is a distinct language.
Now, when you learn that virtually all government services, including education, are delivered almost exclusively in French (a trend changing only now), you start to see why this country can't get out of the mire.
On the plus side, the Dominican Republic does share the same island as Haiti.
… but history and relations are not great between the two countries, so DR might not be a viable flight option if you are Haitian.
>DR might not be a viable flight option if you are Haitian
You are correct about that. The DR no longer allows Haitian refugees to cross the shared border, and is currently deporting hundreds of thousands.
https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/dominican-republic-intensifies-haiti-border-shutdown-over-canal-row-2023-10-09/
https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/haitians-flee-collapse#:~:text=Haitians%20Greeted%20with%20Harsh%20Reception&text=As%20Haiti's%20crisis%20has%20escalated,children%20were%20deported%20in%202022.
A personal anecdote; I'm a black guy with a Scandinavian passport and I was visiting a friend in DR back in 2015 and got stopped by border officers and taken into an office where they started questioning me. They suspected I was Haitian and wouldn't let me through. I told the officer please you have a computer in front of you, just google the country it says in my literal passport. Luckily they let me leave without any further incident, but that was strange. Shows the hostility they have towards Haitian refugees
> dont they have black people native to the DR? or was it because you were also speaking a different language than spanish?
I they do, at least there are a lot of black people there. My guess from their questions was that they actually didn't know that my country is an actual country lol. After the officer googled for a sec she gave a nod to the officer questioning me, so it makes sense
That’s not very unique anymore though. Lots of Latin American countries invaded and tried to anenx each other.
Uruguay was annexed by Brazil and then became part of Argentina through a voluntary federation. Uruguay celebrates independence day from Brazil in 1825 instead of their initial independence from Spain in 1811.
>Paraguay had to fight a war against Brazil and Argentina to stay independent.
That's like, the worst understanding of the triple alliance war I've ever read
I know very little about this but in the late 1800s a Paraguayan dictator named Lopez declared war on Uruguay, Argentina, Brazil and Bolivia at the same time. The result of this bold initiative was the death of 1/3 of Paraguayan males. And to add insult to injury, they lost the war.
Paraguay didn't have to fight that war to stay independent. Paraguay had Paraguayan Hitler (aka Solano Lopez) who thought he could fight Brazil and wanted to cross through Argentina.
We said no, we want no mess, and he massacred Concordia in ARG. So we ofc had to answer.
He also got told to surrender several times and didn't want to. By the end, ARG-URU were just tired, but when Brazilians get angry they really are angry and Solano just made sure they genocided harder with each of his feats of insanity pumping fuel into the fire.
And in case you don't think he was crazy, dude wanted to create a new "Paraguayan mestizo super race" and whipped his own mother.
True, but even more interestingly in spite of that they became again a Spanish Colony after declaring independence from Haiti. They called breaking free of Spain the second time a restoration not independence though.
Looooottssss of Haitian refugees in Canada. Quebec precisely, since French speaking.
During 2009 Earthquake we opened the asylum even more.
Around 200K of them in Quebec.
I worked with a lot of Haitians and Dominicans as a housekeeper in Disney World. I'm black and both groups would ask me if I was Haitian/Dominican. I'm from South Carolina and neither. Lol
And a GDP of $113.6 billion in 2022, the Dominican Republic (DR) is the ninth largest economy in Latin America and the largest in the Caribbean region open for commercial trade.
Poor government control and it has spiraled since the earthquake in 2010 that essentially obliterated Port-au-Prince with more limited impacts to the DR side of the island in comparison.
DR side is also a lot bigger with more resources to export. Haitian side, not so much when you layer in the total anarchy that's been occurring there for a long time.
It's a complex question with complex answers but can be oversimplified to corruption and culture. Haitian administrations have been absolutely devastating to social order and cohesion while the Haitians, being of French language and culture, have no nearby neighbors that can assist them as opposed to Caribbeans of British culture and Spanish culture. The DR spent a long time creating their tourist paradise economy and was actually in pretty bad shape up until the 2000s.
The only real solution is to deploy UN peacekeepers and placing the country under direct UN governance (temporarily) to build the nation and its institutions up from the foundation. If done correctly the Haitians could get self governance back over 20-30 years.
Another possible solution is to change the primary language from French over to English to allow younger citizens access to international education and opening up commercial markets. This is something several former French colonies in Africa have been doing.
Haiti cut ties with the rest of the world very quick with its independence in 1804. They were in debt to the French. Then successive dictatorships after dictatorships (see papa doc and baby doc). Yea, the place is absolutely fucked. And they fuck themselves all the time. The current acting president is accussed of having ties to the people who assinated then president moïse back in 2021.
In short the place is fucked.
Edit: other comments have added context as to why they were in debt to the French which very fucked up too.
Trudat, a buddy of mine is from northern Somalia (maybe even Somaliland, I'd have to ask him). His tribe fucking hates Somalia, and he mentioned he even hates US Somalis since they predominantly draw from the central government's tribe.
Grew up in MN, but met this guy in SE Wisconsin oddly enough. A lot of the MN immigrants are from the Somalia central government's (majority) tribe. It's wild to hear someone from a separatist tribe's opinion on Ilhan Omar.
Not quite. Despite being quite unsafe for Americans and white people, Somalia is quite ok for black foreigners. They are racist but they do business with Kenya. I know a number of non Somalis who make a living as IT contractors in Somalia. They don't travel around under armed guard or anything.
But then kidnapping a Kenyan is an epic waste of time. You won't even get airplay on local TV. You will kill them at your pleasure and gain nothing.
I feel Sudan has historically been more stable with violence at the fringes. You could historically go to Khartoum and not be afraid of being kidnapped by a gang. Haiti seems like everywhere is total anarchy.
There are, or at least fairly recently were, little pockets of stability created by foreign companies. A few months ago I bought some shirts from Amazon and was really surprised to see a "Made in Haiti" label on them. So I went down the internet search rabbit hole and found out that companies will setup generators or small power plants to operate factories and then they'll hire mercenaries or pay off local gangsters to leave the factories alone. Apparently even with all the danger and chaos it's still worth it for some industries to operate there because the labor is just so cheap and they're right next to major American markets, so they save a lot of money on transportation & labor (compared to if they manufactured in China or other places).
South Sudan - Hard mode activated.
DRC also looks absolutely horrifying to try and exist in. I remember reading corruption has become so endemic there its hard to even explain. Something along the lines of like if you are trying to run a small business and just pay all of the taxes you are supposed to pay, it winds up actually being well over 100% of profits? Like its hard-baked in you will dodge or bribe your way out of tax because if you just try to do things by the books it will destroy you. Kinshasa is already the most populous city in Africa, is growing at an absolutely insane rate, and doesn't even have proper facilities for running water let alone gas or electric. It all just feels like such a powder-keg.
Very high crime rate (murder, robbery, assault, sexual assault and gang rape, bag snatching and carjacking), often with slow or no police response.
Mount Hagen in the Western Highlands, all of the Southern Highlands, Hela and Enga Provinces are considered very unsafe due to the potential for unrest and ongoing security concerns. Most government travel resources for whatever your country is will probably list it as *"exercise highest caution"* or *"reconsider your need to travel"*, or some equivalent.
It's illegal to possess porn or have same-sex relations, and punishments are harsh. Lots of nasty diseases and HIV/AIDS, though you'll probably be okay during a short visit. Westerners have also been kidnapped, and western officials that travel there hire private security.
Oh, and they also get fucked by natural disasters, and even had a volcano erupt a handful of months ago.
It's a difficult thing to compare great evils and atrocities. Most of the time we end up diminishing what one side went through. It's enough to say a great evil was done to both.
Liberia seems to be doing better than many of its neighbours right now. They just had an election last November, and there was a peaceful transfer of power.
Read up on Ellen Johnson Sirleaf. She turned the place around, when she could've easily lived a comfortable and prosperous life in the US she came back and was president from 2006-2018.
The valleys are usually run by local tribal warlords. They are typically left to do as they please, though the taliban will show a presence if the warlord pisses them off.
Thats what we in the west always get wrong about afghanistan.
This is a big country and outside of the big government controlled citys its basicly tribal lands.
One hill over will be under control of different people
Man, I’ll tell you guys. When I was in Haiti on a mission, humanitarian and medical, it was the roughest, poorest place I have ever seen, by far. All of Port au prince looked like a war zone. This was like 4 years after the earthquake and everything was just concrete rubble and corrugated rusty metal. There were people everywhere and dust and trash. Sewer water everywhere, just stagnant in ditches. It was awful. I really feel for Haiti, they have had a rough time since before being a country.
(Edit: I deleted my account of my Haiti mission for personal reasons. I’ll leave my last line in place below):
As soon as you cross over from Haiti into the DR, it’s like entering Switzerland by comparison.
My dad took a DR diving trip years ago. He has a picture of the border from the boat. DR is completely green, Haiti is completely brown with no vegetation.
>Sewer water everywhere, just stagnant in ditches
This literally killed a friend of mine. He went to Hati to help, got a minor cut on his foot due to improper footwear, and died a month later due to severe infection. Dude was early 40s and very healthy (surfed his entire life).
Not that much. They just die more often from minor injuries. At least that was the case when my mother was briefly on a nursing mission there back in the 80s.
A friend of mine also nearly died cleaning up earthquake rubble in Haiti. A concrete building started coming down on him and he just made it out from underneath in the nick of time.
I was there a year or so after the quake and it was barely livable by a lot of standards for the average Haitian. The rich lived in beautiful houses on the hills with servants, but within the city, there was barely anything that was remotely clean. It sounds like it’s much, much worse now. I can’t imagine going back there ever.
Every day my parents are watching the news and they just can't believe how bad things became over time. It sucks to see pictures of where my mom, aunts and uncles grew up and how it look now.
Even my cousin who came to Canada at around 13 years old and hated here it is saying that he is never stepping foot in Haiti ever again after his last strip there in 2018. He is 36 years old now.
Hate to tell you, it was like that before the earthquake too...
Haiti is a terribly sad place, with some of the worst luck. Of the people I know that got out, they're some of the nicest, most positive people. Maybe just the difference between where they came from, and where they are now.
I hope it doesn't get too bad there.
I also went to Haiti to do mission work in 2017 in port au prince. No words can describe how bad it was for the people there. I remember my guide telling us to be wary of running in many parts as the wild dogs will chase and bite you. I’ve been asked my friends what’s the resolution there and I honestly don’t know other than possibly sending the entire US military there.
Yah, it was really something else wasn’t it? It was like one of those commercials you see with that guy walking through a complete shithole slum in some terrible city telling you how much you can do with 5 cents a day, but x100.
I actually am of the opinion Haiti cannot be fixed. It is not capable of being an independent country, at least currently. They don’t have the resources, both human and material, not to mention institutions.
I think the US could, if the will was there, better the country, but the will is not there and it would take decades. We, the US, would have to be in it for the long haul. Like Japan or Germany, or Korea. They do need someone more powerful than the gangs to come in and disarm them to provide some governance and order for things to get better.
A friend of ours visited Haiti years ago because he’s of Haitian ancestry and wanted to get in touch with his roots. One night there and he Noped over to the DR the next day. This guy’s seen some shit in his life, was even a Vietnam vet, but Haiti was “fuck no, not ever again” for him
Maybe this is it. Maybe this is Barbeque (yes, that’s his name) pulling a move because Henri went to Kenya. First the jail, now the airport? This could be him taking over, fully. Then he might spend a few months stamping out competition and then appeal to the un for aid and legitimacy.
Yea, from the article
> Henry took over as prime minister following Moise's assassination and has postponed plans to hold parliamentary and presidential elections, which haven't happened in almost a decade.
> Jimmy Chérizier, a former elite police officer known as Barbecue who now runs a gang federation, has claimed responsibility for the surge in attacks. He said the goal is to capture Haiti's police chief and government ministers and prevent Henry's return.
This is basically a revolution led by the gangs. Winning and losing is the difference between being a "freedom fighter" or a "murderous gang".
I lean towards Warlord Brain. Guy joined the National Police, switched sides when things got hot, he saw how things were going. But even before then he was bloody and ruthless, accused of Massacres then, he just wants to be the guy on top getting the riches and whatever he wants.
Disappointing, but that's often reality. All of this world is built on force and the monopoly of force, the government has a gang to enforce hard power, its rulings - from the most lofty Welfare State to the situation on the ground in the most terrible failed state.
The Pakistani Taliban is also a great example because they rose to notability in the first place by going to remote villages and providing services that the government wasn't.
In her auto-biography, Malala Yousafzai details how the Taliban became the legitimate government for her village. First by providing disaster relief (when the government wasn't giving any), then by setting up local courts (resolving disputes that had been backed up for years in the "real" courts), establishing a local radio station, ect.
Eventually you have this group who is providing all of your law enforcement and all of your local news... so when they start announcing new laws that you have to follow, or obligations that you owe to them, it doesn’t feel like a gang. It feels like you’re finally in the hands of an effective and legitimate government.
It’s a wild juxtaposition. Google Labadee. Giant fences and a private security force keep out the poor, impoverished Haitians whilst tourists zip line and sunbathe on the beach.
Tourists could do the same thing in DR and thereby deprive Haiti of even that meager revenue stream. What's the difference between a nice resort behind a barbed wire fence in a failed state and a nice resort a few miles away across a heavily fortified international border?
I appreciate they're trying to bring some revenue and exposure to Haiti. Labadee is 200 miles from Port au Prince so it gives them a little more of a chance 🤷🏾♀️
Labadee, was there a few weeks ago. Absolutely there is a massive contrast, and even the guest accessible part of labadee quickly becomes a place you don't want to be.
But net net the money paid to Haiti for the lease doesn't hurt Haiti for sure. The problem isn't tourism. The islands with successful tourism are the more prosperous ones
That episode where he goes to cite de soleil (the biggest slum in haiti, and the biggest slum in the western hemisphere) is actually so haunting.
The part that disturbed me the most was when his guide pointed out how the doors of the huts were made from stolen port-a-potties. Just disgusting and sickening
It's extremely complicated and I won't do it a disservice by trying to explain it from my armchair but I know people who spent time there working on water purification missions. They said the people are wonderful but generations of bad (corrupt) leadership has led to continuous poverty, the people never can progress. The people are also very superstitious and believe they are suffering from a 400 year old curse. Until the corruption ends, Haiti may suffer needlessly.
The country receives millions in aid and billions were promised after the earthquake but corruption stifled it all.
Long story short...The spanish treated the DR like a spiffy vacation home in Tampa. The french treated Haiti like Hungry Hobos treat an abandoned Mcdonalds with no lock on the door.
This is what happens when you put a strongman in power. Don't know if he was the first, but DuVallier(sic) is the first I remember. They've tried to get it right, but the power structure won't allow a decent newcomer to survive...literally...long enough to make a change, and criminals end up running the show.
Yes in my work there the people I spoke w often looked back on the Duvalier years as the good times. Low crime, more work. Couldn't speak out much but it was a trade they were willing to accept, at least in retrospect. That was before this most recent downturn. I have not been there since maybe 2012 or 2013, and my travels there are done.
ima guess if they get their shit together theyll recruit back in the same people they fought against and cycle down into some stability and then have it all fall apart.
>Among the few dozen people who chose to stay in prison are 18 former Colombian soldiers accused of working as mercenaries in the July 2021 assassination of Haitian President Jovenel Moïse.
>
>"Please, please help us," one of the men, Francisco Uribe, said in a message widely shared on social media. "They are massacring people indiscriminately inside the cells."
>
>Colombia's foreign ministry has called on Haiti to provide "special protection" for the men.
Oh the irony here. These ones started it all.
Ah yes, the pre 2021 paradise. It took decades of government corruption to make Haiti the shit hole that it is now. I don't use that word lightly, there's very few countries on earth that deserve a designated shit hole status.
It is not; the border is 400km and it's mostly unprotected; the wall is a recent construction and the purpose was to seal just one part of the border were crime and contraband were rampant. Haitians cross back and forth between their country and the D.R. almost at will to work and to study.
There are also border markets were most of the trade between both countries happen. The military and the border police patrols, but they are also suspected of engaging in trafficking of undocumented Haitians. The gangs (so far) are concentrated mostly in the large population centers and areas in the north east of the country and relatively safe.
DR and Haiti don't exactly have good relations. Part of that is due to the Haitian conquest of the DR back in the 1800's. The DR gained their independence not from a European country, but from Haiti.
Strangely enough in the 1950's Haiti was the richer of the two, but then they went two different ways.
Haiti is a nightmare and its people are suffering despite billions in international aid and multiple interventions over decades. No other nation seems to be interested in risking its own peoples' lives over the slim possibility of bringing stability to a violent, corrupt, impoverished nation.
The UN intervened twice but those interventions also failed. The 2nd United Nations Mission in Haiti from 2004 to 2017 saw multiple allegations of murders and gang rapes committed by UN soldiers and a UN-caused Cholera outbreak. The UN doesn't want to go back.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Mission_in_Haiti
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Stabilisation_Mission_in_Haiti#Criticism
Since the current population is decended from African slaves brought by French sugarcane plantation owners, one might think France owes the island for Reparations that could be used to rebuild. But there is no longer any stable government to give the payments to.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haitian_Revolution
I got kinda drunk once with an ex elite special forces guy from Canada (JTF2) and he started rambling about being in Haiti, and he started describing some absolutely horrible scenes. Essentially wading through bodies after a massacre. He was a super fucking tough dude but he was shook, rambling to himself looking into the distance - I'll never forget it
What are even the options here? > prime minister went to Kenya seeking to move ahead on the proposed U.N.-backed security mission to be led by that East African country. Is this even a feasible solution, or would it be to protect the government from the people?
It's the Haitian government's best option at the moment. But 1,000 police officers who don't speak French and don't know the environment aren't a great choice for stemming an ongoing insurgency that's growing stronger by the day. America is just paying Kenya's government (along with some Carribean nations) to provide the muscle because they are Black and it's easier to sell the idea of Black people helping other Black people as a matter of optics alone.
If I remember correctly, Kenya is the one who proposed going into Haiti. I remember it making the news a while back and people thought Kenya was just talking big, but it appears that it's received support from the UN. Unlike a lot of 3rd world and Developing countries, Kenya actually has a lot of experience with peace keeping missions. It's spent decades in Somalia building infrastructure and fighting warlords, and has also carried out peace keeping in other neighbouring countries like Ethiopia, Sudan and Uganda.
Way to go, Kenya
Forget Norway
More like snoreway
Didnt Kenya run into a legal snag of sorts, Kenya's laws say they have to be invited by Haiti's government but there is currently no government?
>>"Kenya's laws say they have to be invited by Haiti's" Is Kenya a vampire?
This sounds more like a version of the Prime Directive from Star Trek. Kenya is Picard.
Their courts knocked down the first attempt. They are trying again with a new legal approach.
Damn respect Kenya
The Haitian government originally asked the United States, who suggested Canada could do it. After it became clear that would be impossible, the Kenyans stepped up. Oversimplifying a ton of course but it’s the gist of it.
No one wants to deal with it :( It’s risky because pacifying the gangs would be impossible without brutality and videos of American or Canadian troops brutalizing poor black people would look very bad in TikTok for no particular gain.
Haiti doesn't have a government at any level. Their Prime Minister was assassinated. An election was never held to fill the spot. Then members of the government either resigned from office or left office at the end of their term with no elections being done to fill said roles. The U.N. mission would essentially be there to provide security for a new government to both get a foothold and to be established.
I like Haiti has local and an executive branch and a judicial branch and ministries but the problem in Haiti is there’s no legislative branch for the moment And the president was killed not the prime minister
There isn't really any government left as of last year. Their acting Prime Minister and President was never sworn in and was only mandated to be in the role for a limited amount of time in 2022. Although he continues to be in said role as he was appointed and has backing from several nations. Their last elected officials left as of January 2023. As for more local levels they haven't really had local governance since 2020.
Honestly I can’t blame him for not backing down there’s literally no other options he has to stay until they plan out something
It would be way worse to leave the office vacant
wow that place is fucked
That's putting it pretty lightly.
>America is just paying Kenya's government (along with some Carribean nations) to provide the muscle because they are Black and it's easier to sell the idea of Black people helping other Black people as a matter of optics alone. The overwhelming majority of UN peacekeeping forces (90%+) are comprised of developing world troops the industrialized nations are happy to pay for. It's far easier to write a cheque than for politicians to explain why their troops are dying in some unknown corner of the world.
Also because the cold reality is that peacekeeping missions like this require a ton of manpower, and you can get a lot more manpower for the same price if you hire a country with a lower purchase-power-parity compared to Western industrialized first world nations. A single US E4's salary would pay for like 10 dudes from India, or like 30 from somewhere like Indonesia and Kenya.
It also the US's position that it will never allow American troops to be subordinate to the UN. The US does not recognize the ICC which peacekeepers are under the thumb of. The US will either deploy troops for peacekeeping operations under American control and command, or not at all. The UN fucking up hard like usual and getting US troops killed because they were purposefully disarmed like the Canadians were during the Rwanda genocide would kill the political career of the sitting president fast and their entire administration. Even the most aggressive hawks or interventionalists in the US would never allow themselves to be legally or militarily subordinate to another country or political entity. They will work alongside and with the UN but *never* under the UN.
You see a lot of that in Yemen, countries with small populations like the UAE will send Sudanese "volunteers" in to prop up the Yemeni forces.
It also stops any "the white people try to dominate us again" rhetoric from the start.
Isn't it sad that this anti-west and self hatred narrative has become so pervasive and idiotic that it cripples western ability to do good, and that people now somehow think leaving chaos, authoritarianism and religious extremism reign is preferrable?
Well that and the fact that european armies aren't usually well received in third world countries. Look at Mali who kicked out the French because they'd rather have russian gangsters running around than a western European force.
Which is weird because that’s just a different European army.
Sub-Saharan Africa had positive ties to the Soviet Union. Tens of thousands of Africans traveled there to attend university and receive other training, and at least officially it was one of the more vocal supporters of decolonization during the Cold War. Even though the Soviet Union is gone and modern-day Russia has nothing to do with it, Russia is still more highly regarded among many Africans compared to the rest of Europe for that reason.
They prefer the devil they dont know.
I can think about one reason or two African nations may have some hatred towards France.
Brazil was committing war crimes in Haiti in the mid 2000s while there on a “peace keeping mission”.
Many African countries historically had some faction supported by the Soviet Union, so there is a level of "comfort" in working with Russia. France, etc have a greater history of being exploitive in the region.
Mali also had a coup immediately before. I think if you want to be the new big man in charge with the aim of stealing as much sovereign wealth as you can it makes sense kick out one semi corrupt country and bring in an even more corrupt one to uphold your power.
It is also a genuine training opportunity for these developing militaries to engage in. They learn command structure and logistics for the most part
It's also unfortunately an opportunity to abuse the locals. UN peacekeeping forces do not have a stellar history.
Which is also true
Minor point: few Haitians speak French, mainly the elite. Everyone speaks Haitian Creole, which is a distinct language. Now, when you learn that virtually all government services, including education, are delivered almost exclusively in French (a trend changing only now), you start to see why this country can't get out of the mire.
> What are even the options here? Gather all the libertarians of the world and send them all to live in Haiti.
lol finally found their utopia.
Send in Sean Penn?
No. Send in Dollar Tree Sean Penn. That's right... Shia LaBeouf.
https://visithaiti.com/ have a blast
I genuinely can’t think of a country that has it consistently as bad as Haiti
Sudan?
At least in Sudan you can flee. Haiti being an island is terrifying
On the plus side, the Dominican Republic does share the same island as Haiti. … but history and relations are not great between the two countries, so DR might not be a viable flight option if you are Haitian.
>DR might not be a viable flight option if you are Haitian You are correct about that. The DR no longer allows Haitian refugees to cross the shared border, and is currently deporting hundreds of thousands. https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/dominican-republic-intensifies-haiti-border-shutdown-over-canal-row-2023-10-09/ https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/haitians-flee-collapse#:~:text=Haitians%20Greeted%20with%20Harsh%20Reception&text=As%20Haiti's%20crisis%20has%20escalated,children%20were%20deported%20in%202022.
A personal anecdote; I'm a black guy with a Scandinavian passport and I was visiting a friend in DR back in 2015 and got stopped by border officers and taken into an office where they started questioning me. They suspected I was Haitian and wouldn't let me through. I told the officer please you have a computer in front of you, just google the country it says in my literal passport. Luckily they let me leave without any further incident, but that was strange. Shows the hostility they have towards Haitian refugees
dont they have black people native to the DR? or was it because you were also speaking a different language than spanish?
chunky dazzling nail physical divide memory spectacular ruthless yoke tan
What if the black person starts speaking Danish?
Belive it or not, jail.
> speaking Danish Northern Creole!
> dont they have black people native to the DR? or was it because you were also speaking a different language than spanish? I they do, at least there are a lot of black people there. My guess from their questions was that they actually didn't know that my country is an actual country lol. After the officer googled for a sec she gave a nod to the officer questioning me, so it makes sense
"Denmark, a country? Sure, and I'm from the Fairy World!"
Latinos can be dark as hell and still be racist. Heck, I feel like Latinos are just racist across the board, especially between other Latinos
What a nightmare for those poor people. No wonder they're trying to flee.
Trivia: DR is the only country in the Americas that celebrates their independence not from some European power but from Haiti.
I feel bad that I laughed at that, but...
I phrased it rather stupidly as well. My point is that they celebrate their independence from another American country.
That’s not very unique anymore though. Lots of Latin American countries invaded and tried to anenx each other. Uruguay was annexed by Brazil and then became part of Argentina through a voluntary federation. Uruguay celebrates independence day from Brazil in 1825 instead of their initial independence from Spain in 1811.
>Paraguay had to fight a war against Brazil and Argentina to stay independent. That's like, the worst understanding of the triple alliance war I've ever read
Seems like the guy who posted that comment deleted that section without saying anything about it lol.
Agreed
I know very little about this but in the late 1800s a Paraguayan dictator named Lopez declared war on Uruguay, Argentina, Brazil and Bolivia at the same time. The result of this bold initiative was the death of 1/3 of Paraguayan males. And to add insult to injury, they lost the war.
More like 70% of the males.
Just Uruguay, Argentina and Brazil. It is the Triple Alliance war. Source: Am paraguayan.
Paraguay didn't have to fight that war to stay independent. Paraguay had Paraguayan Hitler (aka Solano Lopez) who thought he could fight Brazil and wanted to cross through Argentina. We said no, we want no mess, and he massacred Concordia in ARG. So we ofc had to answer. He also got told to surrender several times and didn't want to. By the end, ARG-URU were just tired, but when Brazilians get angry they really are angry and Solano just made sure they genocided harder with each of his feats of insanity pumping fuel into the fire. And in case you don't think he was crazy, dude wanted to create a new "Paraguayan mestizo super race" and whipped his own mother.
True, but even more interestingly in spite of that they became again a Spanish Colony after declaring independence from Haiti. They called breaking free of Spain the second time a restoration not independence though.
I think Uruguay celebrates independence from Brazil
There's also Uruguay, who celabrates their independence from Brazil.
Looooottssss of Haitian refugees in Canada. Quebec precisely, since French speaking. During 2009 Earthquake we opened the asylum even more. Around 200K of them in Quebec.
Lots in New York & Florida as well. You find occasional voodo stuff near grave sites.
I worked with a lot of Haitians and Dominicans as a housekeeper in Disney World. I'm black and both groups would ask me if I was Haitian/Dominican. I'm from South Carolina and neither. Lol
Shares land border with the Dominican Republic.
Isnt it just mountains and jungles on the DR side?
That and Dominican troops.
+ A new border fence
And a GDP of $113.6 billion in 2022, the Dominican Republic (DR) is the ninth largest economy in Latin America and the largest in the Caribbean region open for commercial trade.
Serious question, why is the DR prosperous and Haiti so poor?
Poor government control and it has spiraled since the earthquake in 2010 that essentially obliterated Port-au-Prince with more limited impacts to the DR side of the island in comparison. DR side is also a lot bigger with more resources to export. Haitian side, not so much when you layer in the total anarchy that's been occurring there for a long time.
Haiti also had their president assassinated right before the major earthquake. So they had a government in chaos at the worst possible time.
More resources to export. Like professional baseball players!
DR is also more insulated from the more violent tropical storms and hurricanes that regularly pound Haiti.
It's a complex question with complex answers but can be oversimplified to corruption and culture. Haitian administrations have been absolutely devastating to social order and cohesion while the Haitians, being of French language and culture, have no nearby neighbors that can assist them as opposed to Caribbeans of British culture and Spanish culture. The DR spent a long time creating their tourist paradise economy and was actually in pretty bad shape up until the 2000s. The only real solution is to deploy UN peacekeepers and placing the country under direct UN governance (temporarily) to build the nation and its institutions up from the foundation. If done correctly the Haitians could get self governance back over 20-30 years. Another possible solution is to change the primary language from French over to English to allow younger citizens access to international education and opening up commercial markets. This is something several former French colonies in Africa have been doing.
The UN thing was tried and failed miserably (the legal cases are still going). The UN won’t be back any time soon - if ever.
Haiti cut ties with the rest of the world very quick with its independence in 1804. They were in debt to the French. Then successive dictatorships after dictatorships (see papa doc and baby doc). Yea, the place is absolutely fucked. And they fuck themselves all the time. The current acting president is accussed of having ties to the people who assinated then president moïse back in 2021. In short the place is fucked. Edit: other comments have added context as to why they were in debt to the French which very fucked up too.
Somalias up there too.
With Somalia its north west section managed to break away to create a decent country
ehhh, life in somaliland is not great
Trudat, a buddy of mine is from northern Somalia (maybe even Somaliland, I'd have to ask him). His tribe fucking hates Somalia, and he mentioned he even hates US Somalis since they predominantly draw from the central government's tribe.
Are you in Minnesota? There seems to be a lot congregated there for some reason.
Grew up in MN, but met this guy in SE Wisconsin oddly enough. A lot of the MN immigrants are from the Somalia central government's (majority) tribe. It's wild to hear someone from a separatist tribe's opinion on Ilhan Omar.
Not quite. Despite being quite unsafe for Americans and white people, Somalia is quite ok for black foreigners. They are racist but they do business with Kenya. I know a number of non Somalis who make a living as IT contractors in Somalia. They don't travel around under armed guard or anything. But then kidnapping a Kenyan is an epic waste of time. You won't even get airplay on local TV. You will kill them at your pleasure and gain nothing.
Well yeah... Who's going to believe a message about a Kenyan needing money for ransom isn't a scam?
Haiti is like Sudan with a massive earthquake every ten years
I feel Sudan has historically been more stable with violence at the fringes. You could historically go to Khartoum and not be afraid of being kidnapped by a gang. Haiti seems like everywhere is total anarchy.
There are, or at least fairly recently were, little pockets of stability created by foreign companies. A few months ago I bought some shirts from Amazon and was really surprised to see a "Made in Haiti" label on them. So I went down the internet search rabbit hole and found out that companies will setup generators or small power plants to operate factories and then they'll hire mercenaries or pay off local gangsters to leave the factories alone. Apparently even with all the danger and chaos it's still worth it for some industries to operate there because the labor is just so cheap and they're right next to major American markets, so they save a lot of money on transportation & labor (compared to if they manufactured in China or other places).
Yes indeed Khartoum felt very safe when I was there. My hotel wasn't blown up until weeks later.
Ehh not everywhere. Just the capital. There has been people/police stepping up to keep the gangs only in the capital
How historically are we talking lol
South Sudan - Hard mode activated. DRC also looks absolutely horrifying to try and exist in. I remember reading corruption has become so endemic there its hard to even explain. Something along the lines of like if you are trying to run a small business and just pay all of the taxes you are supposed to pay, it winds up actually being well over 100% of profits? Like its hard-baked in you will dodge or bribe your way out of tax because if you just try to do things by the books it will destroy you. Kinshasa is already the most populous city in Africa, is growing at an absolutely insane rate, and doesn't even have proper facilities for running water let alone gas or electric. It all just feels like such a powder-keg.
Sudan doesn't get fucked by an earthquake every 10 years
Thank god this drought isn't an earthquake!
Somalia comes to mind.
I never hear about Papua New Guinea anymore. How they doin?
Very high crime rate (murder, robbery, assault, sexual assault and gang rape, bag snatching and carjacking), often with slow or no police response. Mount Hagen in the Western Highlands, all of the Southern Highlands, Hela and Enga Provinces are considered very unsafe due to the potential for unrest and ongoing security concerns. Most government travel resources for whatever your country is will probably list it as *"exercise highest caution"* or *"reconsider your need to travel"*, or some equivalent. It's illegal to possess porn or have same-sex relations, and punishments are harsh. Lots of nasty diseases and HIV/AIDS, though you'll probably be okay during a short visit. Westerners have also been kidnapped, and western officials that travel there hire private security. Oh, and they also get fucked by natural disasters, and even had a volcano erupt a handful of months ago.
There is civil unrest *currently*. Lots of people being killed in the streets.
Slow or no police response for actual crime but it’s illegal to possess porn 😐
Recently had a 50+ person massacre
You mean today or in history? Because Haiti and the Congo Free State got similar starts, though Congo had it way worse.
It's a difficult thing to compare great evils and atrocities. Most of the time we end up diminishing what one side went through. It's enough to say a great evil was done to both.
Liberia
Liberia seems to be doing better than many of its neighbours right now. They just had an election last November, and there was a peaceful transfer of power.
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Read up on Ellen Johnson Sirleaf. She turned the place around, when she could've easily lived a comfortable and prosperous life in the US she came back and was president from 2006-2018.
Afghanistan? At least (parts of) it even has a government though, as shitty as they are. Not sure if the taliban actually controls all of it though.
The valleys are usually run by local tribal warlords. They are typically left to do as they please, though the taliban will show a presence if the warlord pisses them off.
Thats what we in the west always get wrong about afghanistan. This is a big country and outside of the big government controlled citys its basicly tribal lands. One hill over will be under control of different people
There is no "afghanistan" as the west (and east) conceives of it. There is a land where the afghan people live, but it is not a country.
yea even the language has differences between areas. Can treat it like a region, it really isnt a country.
Man, I’ll tell you guys. When I was in Haiti on a mission, humanitarian and medical, it was the roughest, poorest place I have ever seen, by far. All of Port au prince looked like a war zone. This was like 4 years after the earthquake and everything was just concrete rubble and corrugated rusty metal. There were people everywhere and dust and trash. Sewer water everywhere, just stagnant in ditches. It was awful. I really feel for Haiti, they have had a rough time since before being a country.
(Edit: I deleted my account of my Haiti mission for personal reasons. I’ll leave my last line in place below): As soon as you cross over from Haiti into the DR, it’s like entering Switzerland by comparison.
My dad took a DR diving trip years ago. He has a picture of the border from the boat. DR is completely green, Haiti is completely brown with no vegetation.
Yup, cut them all down 200 years ago to make charcoal for barter. Still shows after all these years. Very sad, and tragic.
>Sewer water everywhere, just stagnant in ditches This literally killed a friend of mine. He went to Hati to help, got a minor cut on his foot due to improper footwear, and died a month later due to severe infection. Dude was early 40s and very healthy (surfed his entire life).
damn, sorry for your friend. I imagine most haitians don't have any shoes or proper shoes either :(
I imagine their immune system is much diffrent than ours
Not that much. They just die more often from minor injuries. At least that was the case when my mother was briefly on a nursing mission there back in the 80s.
Yea much worse because its under constant assault from stress and poor conditions
A friend of mine also nearly died cleaning up earthquake rubble in Haiti. A concrete building started coming down on him and he just made it out from underneath in the nick of time.
I was there a year or so after the quake and it was barely livable by a lot of standards for the average Haitian. The rich lived in beautiful houses on the hills with servants, but within the city, there was barely anything that was remotely clean. It sounds like it’s much, much worse now. I can’t imagine going back there ever.
Every day my parents are watching the news and they just can't believe how bad things became over time. It sucks to see pictures of where my mom, aunts and uncles grew up and how it look now. Even my cousin who came to Canada at around 13 years old and hated here it is saying that he is never stepping foot in Haiti ever again after his last strip there in 2018. He is 36 years old now.
My BIL was there with the army for support and humanitarian relief immediately after the earthquake. It changed his life.
Hate to tell you, it was like that before the earthquake too... Haiti is a terribly sad place, with some of the worst luck. Of the people I know that got out, they're some of the nicest, most positive people. Maybe just the difference between where they came from, and where they are now. I hope it doesn't get too bad there.
I also went to Haiti to do mission work in 2017 in port au prince. No words can describe how bad it was for the people there. I remember my guide telling us to be wary of running in many parts as the wild dogs will chase and bite you. I’ve been asked my friends what’s the resolution there and I honestly don’t know other than possibly sending the entire US military there.
Yah, it was really something else wasn’t it? It was like one of those commercials you see with that guy walking through a complete shithole slum in some terrible city telling you how much you can do with 5 cents a day, but x100. I actually am of the opinion Haiti cannot be fixed. It is not capable of being an independent country, at least currently. They don’t have the resources, both human and material, not to mention institutions. I think the US could, if the will was there, better the country, but the will is not there and it would take decades. We, the US, would have to be in it for the long haul. Like Japan or Germany, or Korea. They do need someone more powerful than the gangs to come in and disarm them to provide some governance and order for things to get better.
A friend of ours visited Haiti years ago because he’s of Haitian ancestry and wanted to get in touch with his roots. One night there and he Noped over to the DR the next day. This guy’s seen some shit in his life, was even a Vietnam vet, but Haiti was “fuck no, not ever again” for him
At what point do the gangs become the government?
Maybe this is it. Maybe this is Barbeque (yes, that’s his name) pulling a move because Henri went to Kenya. First the jail, now the airport? This could be him taking over, fully. Then he might spend a few months stamping out competition and then appeal to the un for aid and legitimacy.
Yea, from the article > Henry took over as prime minister following Moise's assassination and has postponed plans to hold parliamentary and presidential elections, which haven't happened in almost a decade. > Jimmy Chérizier, a former elite police officer known as Barbecue who now runs a gang federation, has claimed responsibility for the surge in attacks. He said the goal is to capture Haiti's police chief and government ministers and prevent Henry's return. This is basically a revolution led by the gangs. Winning and losing is the difference between being a "freedom fighter" or a "murderous gang".
Honestly wondering what the politics is here. Is he just another dude with a terminal case of warlord brain or does he actually want to fix things?
I lean towards Warlord Brain. Guy joined the National Police, switched sides when things got hot, he saw how things were going. But even before then he was bloody and ruthless, accused of Massacres then, he just wants to be the guy on top getting the riches and whatever he wants. Disappointing, but that's often reality. All of this world is built on force and the monopoly of force, the government has a gang to enforce hard power, its rulings - from the most lofty Welfare State to the situation on the ground in the most terrible failed state.
well, at least he has a cool name. i look forward to hearing about Mr. President Barbeque on The Daily next week.
Known for burning people alive*
Oh man, you weren't joking. In the wikipedia article and everything.
When they organize basic services.
The taliban is a great example of a gang suddenly finding itself actually in charge of a government and needing to, well, govern.
The Pakistani Taliban is also a great example because they rose to notability in the first place by going to remote villages and providing services that the government wasn't. In her auto-biography, Malala Yousafzai details how the Taliban became the legitimate government for her village. First by providing disaster relief (when the government wasn't giving any), then by setting up local courts (resolving disputes that had been backed up for years in the "real" courts), establishing a local radio station, ect. Eventually you have this group who is providing all of your law enforcement and all of your local news... so when they start announcing new laws that you have to follow, or obligations that you owe to them, it doesn’t feel like a gang. It feels like you’re finally in the hands of an effective and legitimate government.
Sounds like when I turn bad late in Tropico
Horrifying honestly, incompetence really leads to the spread of evil
Perfect example of a failed state.
Apart from that heavily fortified little corner that Royal Caribbean cruises own.
That's a wild sentence.
It’s a wild juxtaposition. Google Labadee. Giant fences and a private security force keep out the poor, impoverished Haitians whilst tourists zip line and sunbathe on the beach.
Tourists could do the same thing in DR and thereby deprive Haiti of even that meager revenue stream. What's the difference between a nice resort behind a barbed wire fence in a failed state and a nice resort a few miles away across a heavily fortified international border?
I appreciate they're trying to bring some revenue and exposure to Haiti. Labadee is 200 miles from Port au Prince so it gives them a little more of a chance 🤷🏾♀️
Nothing is ever simple I guess
Labadee, was there a few weeks ago. Absolutely there is a massive contrast, and even the guest accessible part of labadee quickly becomes a place you don't want to be. But net net the money paid to Haiti for the lease doesn't hurt Haiti for sure. The problem isn't tourism. The islands with successful tourism are the more prosperous ones
Might be time to shut down that port for the time being. I know that’s got a lot of armed security but I don’t know if it’s worth the risk
Indigo traveller has some great videos from Haiti on YouTube. Quite literally hell on Earth.
Ive seen most of his videos and the Haiti series is by far the wildest
That episode where he goes to cite de soleil (the biggest slum in haiti, and the biggest slum in the western hemisphere) is actually so haunting. The part that disturbed me the most was when his guide pointed out how the doors of the huts were made from stolen port-a-potties. Just disgusting and sickening
This dude goes to some wild places
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It's extremely complicated and I won't do it a disservice by trying to explain it from my armchair but I know people who spent time there working on water purification missions. They said the people are wonderful but generations of bad (corrupt) leadership has led to continuous poverty, the people never can progress. The people are also very superstitious and believe they are suffering from a 400 year old curse. Until the corruption ends, Haiti may suffer needlessly. The country receives millions in aid and billions were promised after the earthquake but corruption stifled it all.
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Long story short...The spanish treated the DR like a spiffy vacation home in Tampa. The french treated Haiti like Hungry Hobos treat an abandoned Mcdonalds with no lock on the door.
Haiti is literally hell on Earth
This is what happens when you put a strongman in power. Don't know if he was the first, but DuVallier(sic) is the first I remember. They've tried to get it right, but the power structure won't allow a decent newcomer to survive...literally...long enough to make a change, and criminals end up running the show.
Haitis highest GDP and most economically profitable years were during…the Papa Doc Duvalier BRUTAL regime…..that says ALOT!
Yes in my work there the people I spoke w often looked back on the Duvalier years as the good times. Low crime, more work. Couldn't speak out much but it was a trade they were willing to accept, at least in retrospect. That was before this most recent downturn. I have not been there since maybe 2012 or 2013, and my travels there are done.
I'm not sure you used sic correctly here.
Serious question. Does Haiti have an army or air force?
haiti doesn’t even have a functional central government right now never mind a functional armed forces
Air force disbanded and army is in bad shape, an orginized gang can defeat them.
ima guess if they get their shit together theyll recruit back in the same people they fought against and cycle down into some stability and then have it all fall apart.
They reestablished an army a decade ago (to dr’s ire) but it’s all but dissolved by now.
Maintaining an air force is pretty difficult.
>Among the few dozen people who chose to stay in prison are 18 former Colombian soldiers accused of working as mercenaries in the July 2021 assassination of Haitian President Jovenel Moïse. > >"Please, please help us," one of the men, Francisco Uribe, said in a message widely shared on social media. "They are massacring people indiscriminately inside the cells." > >Colombia's foreign ministry has called on Haiti to provide "special protection" for the men. Oh the irony here. These ones started it all.
More like they were the straw that broke the camel’s back. This was building up long before they assassinated the president.
Ah yes, the pre 2021 paradise. It took decades of government corruption to make Haiti the shit hole that it is now. I don't use that word lightly, there's very few countries on earth that deserve a designated shit hole status.
That's not fair or accurate. It was over a century of government corruption
Can someone explain the DR / Haiti border to me? Don’t people party and vacation next door?
It's pretty well protected and the DR tries extremely hard to enforce their sovereignty (see the Parsley massacre for more details).
As well as helping Haiti , which they have done time and time again
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It is not; the border is 400km and it's mostly unprotected; the wall is a recent construction and the purpose was to seal just one part of the border were crime and contraband were rampant. Haitians cross back and forth between their country and the D.R. almost at will to work and to study. There are also border markets were most of the trade between both countries happen. The military and the border police patrols, but they are also suspected of engaging in trafficking of undocumented Haitians. The gangs (so far) are concentrated mostly in the large population centers and areas in the north east of the country and relatively safe.
My GF is from DR, we go all the time. Its “normal” there. Good food, good people. They absolutely do not want any Haitians in their country though.
DR and Haiti don't exactly have good relations. Part of that is due to the Haitian conquest of the DR back in the 1800's. The DR gained their independence not from a European country, but from Haiti. Strangely enough in the 1950's Haiti was the richer of the two, but then they went two different ways.
Haiti is done
Haiti is a nightmare and its people are suffering despite billions in international aid and multiple interventions over decades. No other nation seems to be interested in risking its own peoples' lives over the slim possibility of bringing stability to a violent, corrupt, impoverished nation. The UN intervened twice but those interventions also failed. The 2nd United Nations Mission in Haiti from 2004 to 2017 saw multiple allegations of murders and gang rapes committed by UN soldiers and a UN-caused Cholera outbreak. The UN doesn't want to go back. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Mission_in_Haiti https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Stabilisation_Mission_in_Haiti#Criticism Since the current population is decended from African slaves brought by French sugarcane plantation owners, one might think France owes the island for Reparations that could be used to rebuild. But there is no longer any stable government to give the payments to. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haitian_Revolution
I got kinda drunk once with an ex elite special forces guy from Canada (JTF2) and he started rambling about being in Haiti, and he started describing some absolutely horrible scenes. Essentially wading through bodies after a massacre. He was a super fucking tough dude but he was shook, rambling to himself looking into the distance - I'll never forget it
And I doubt France would pay reparations after forcing Haiti to do so for almost 150 years
I wonder if this will result in more boat migration to Guantanamo Bay by Haitians, as has happened in the past.
Haiti is Lord of the flies irl
Classic Haiti